29 - Miriam Weir - Mumamoo Co-Founder

Miriam Weir is a PR & Marketing specialist, mum to two boys and Co-Founder of Mumamoo - a 100% Australian made, owned and manufactured infant formula company. Mumamoo was founded & in 2021 by 4 mums with an emphasis on shaking the stigma around formula feeding. Mumamoo advocates for all feeding journeys with a belief that more support and better access to information lead to an empowered parenting journey. 

Mumamoo proudly donate a percentage of all online sales in support of PANDA (Perinatal Anxiety & Depression Australia) and have been voted #1 on Product Review for two consecutive years. 

Mumamoo recently won the Telstra Business Award for Accelerating Women and has expanded from an exclusively South Australian customer base to being sold nationally in over 800 stores. 

In this episode you can expect to learn why a stigma around formula feeding exists, why there is such limited access to information and support for mums, and what we can do about it, the impact of trying to breastfeeding on PND, why we need to change the language around breastfeeding and how it’s possible to create change from the ground up. 

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Transcript

Will Slater: 0:03

Hello Hello and welcome to another episode of the b&b corner. Today we have a very special guest the powerhouse mom and entrepreneur, Miriam we Miriam is a PR and marketing specialist mom to two boys and co owner of mama mu, a 100% Australian made, owned and manufactured infant formula company. Mamma Mia was founded in 2021 by four mums with an emphasis on shaking the stigma around formula feeding. My mum who advocates for all feeding journeys with a belief that more support and better access to information lead to an empowered parenting journey. Mamas who proudly donate a percentage of all online sales in support of Panda, perinatal anxiety and depression Australia, and have been voted number one on product review for two consecutive years. My mother also recently won the Telstra Business Award for accelerating women, and has expanded from an exclusively South Australian customer base to being sold nationally and over 800 stores. In this episode, you can expect to learn why a stigma around formula feeding exists. Why there is such limited access to information and support for mums. Plus what we can do about it. The impact of trying to breastfeed on postnatal depression. While we need to change the language around breastfeeding. Now it's possible to create change from the ground up. This episode was a lot of fun, and it's such an important conversation for all parents to understand their options when it comes to feeding their children. Enjoy.

Stephanie Slater: 1:28

Hey, listeners, before we jump into today's episode of the b&b corner, a quick shout out to our startup ask Lee. If you're a mom looking for personalised nutrition that fits into your busy life, visit escalade.co today, and stay tuned until the end for an exclusive offer just for our listeners. Your wonderful not children who can't afford a team. You

Unknown: 1:52

where do you sit in? Where do you sit in the pecking order? of three brothers? Oh, well. Now I've got two boys of my own. So definitely. Where did you go? Oh, yeah, energy. No, the sausage fest wherever I go. But you know, I always wonder what it would be like to have a daughter. But in all seriousness, having sons I feel like I've got this tremendous opportunity and this moment to raise good good men, the boys and you know, challenge. Yeah,

Stephanie Slater: 2:26

but how important? What

Will Slater: 2:28

is it? Because we had this conversation not that long ago about Sebastian and I said, I was trying to describe to Stephanie what I want him to become knowing that I can't make him become anything but you know, want him to be a good man. I'd my version of that. But I'd love to know that. What does that mean to you? Being a good man? What does that? Oh,

Unknown: 2:44

wow, I'm kind, empathetic. I don't know if you remember, there was that woman that went viral? Hey, that went viral recently, and she did all these little reels about what she was teaching her son so that her future daughter and Laurel, son in law, whatever that may be, wouldn't have to, like, you know, learn it for themselves or teach that year. So it's like to

Stephanie Slater: 3:11

wash the dishes, or whatever ASICs that

Miriam: 3:14

comes back to that lives because I just, you know, you guess your job as a parent, whether that's of a boy or a girl is to raise good independent children. So if you get hit by a bus one day, they can function without even function without you. But yeah, good, good, kind, caring citizens of the world and inquiring minds curiosity, thinking beyond our borders. And I guess that impact that they have as people on the planet in the footsteps they leave behind metaphorically and physically.

Stephanie Slater: 3:45

Totally. So that's nothing really gender specific.

Unknown: 3:49

No, it shouldn't be really should it but you know, we're in an really interesting time, I guess where as one i, this has really gone into

Stephanie Slater: 4:00

this is what we do, as I'm saying, yeah. Wow. Breastfeeding and Formula One. We'll get there. refer to it

Unknown: 4:07

as chest feeding chatter, chest feeding. Is that the thing? Yeah, I can't remember how did this whole I don't know if it was which country it was, but they, you know, to be inclusive, inclusive, saw that we're using the words chest fading, sorry, that's how this we're audio. Am I just went dead in one ear. I'm back. I'm back.

Stephanie Slater: 4:30

Yes. Well, we got you know, that we were saying oh, that it's not gender specific in the values that you're, you know, handing over to your children, bestowing

Unknown: 4:42

the real I guess that dialogue around consent and you know, when they are of the correct age, in terms of being in a partnership with someone and exploring, you know, what it makes to be a good lover and a good person and all you know about enthuse Yeah, stick. consents. Yeah. Things like that. And if you're across that, yeah, yeah. Jamila Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Slater: 5:08

I think she's just Jamila on, on on. Anyway, there's that show. I can't think what it was called, which goes to heaven. But it's not heaven. Anyway. Keep moving. Keep going, keep going. Keep

Unknown: 5:18

going. Yeah, she's very she's been in K. Yeah. And she talks about enthusiastic consent and as been the only barometer in a relationship and yeah, it's there's

Stephanie Slater: 5:29

a lot because I know with Sebastian

Unknown: 5:32

I mean, we're way off that just to be very easily Oh, boy, seven and 45 year old I think he's gonna get there really quickly. But anyway, as far off as you think,

Stephanie Slater: 5:46

wow. They are exposed to porn by without All right. So you know, shocking. It is shocking. It is. But I know like when prior to will and I doing this business together, and well was working and I was a stay at home mom, you know, in inverted commas. And Sebastian, I remember he was standing at the little highchair thing, they stand to the tower now, and he's talking, you know, Pastor go to work, and then I said, Mommy's gonna go to work because I know mommy, mommy's don't work. You don't work. I said, Yes, mommy's do work. And it's almost like we were joking. But we had this conversation with him. He was like, one night, but we were trying I shouldn't have to socially,

Unknown: 6:23

right then. Yeah, I have I could tell you stories. Exactly the same that I've had with my boys. Yeah. And it's like, my job. Now at the moment. It's similar to you. I was, um, stay at home. I travelled a little bit. I was and that's hard job. stay at home mom is like, going to work is peace. Okay. 100%. And the mom works in the home. But I do absolutely don't get to go into an office. yet.

Stephanie Slater: 6:47

I also don't get paid for.

Unknown: 6:50

Yeah, or don't get breaks. But I think that

Stephanie Slater: 6:53

that's an important value to embed in boys. Because to value the work of a woman whatever way that looks like and what it means when they're not in the workplace as such, and then coming back because then they grow up to be allies of women. Yes. You know, my fear is that Sebastian grows up entitled as a as an entitled male, and then just older, or then I just that rules that Guk. So I just want him to really see, you know, even when we talk about like you're really good at this world, but Will's always pushing me to take time for myself and do things for me and stop sacrificing and being that martyr I'm a mum that we often mums, you know, become. And so now Sebastian knows that. I'm not there every morning, because two times a week, I do an early morning Pilates class. And that's Mommy's time and we say to get strong and healthy. So he now knows that and I think it's just important to know that it was always a piece papar dad is all you know, prepares out for a run pass out for a rival pass out working part and you know that right?

Unknown: 7:51

Well was was I got very good.

Stephanie Slater: 7:54

If my real nose definitely

Unknown: 7:57

was. Yeah, it's as well it really balanced can. It's so out of whack. Yeah, yeah. So but it all begins with that modelling at home. So I think Sebastian's probably in really good hands. Yeah. You guys are across that and you're having those conversations. And that's how it begins. Right? Yeah,

Stephanie Slater: 8:12

we just have to make sure the pendulum doesn't swing too far with Arabella where she's think she's so sassy and independent out indeed know what and I'm like, oh, yeah, my bring it down a notch I need.

Will Slater: 8:23

There is a bit of that go. But I saw you post about that as well. You. I can't remember exactly what you said. But you realise that it was impossible to fill from an empty cup. Yeah. And I think that's what Stephanie has, is really working hard to develop the idea of needing to prioritise self to then be able to give to others rather than just being what was the word that Rosa use pawns? which

Unknown: 8:45

offers more honey? Yeah, yeah. But it's hard when you have dependents. Yeah. And you are eat and you don't get a break. And yeah, that's easier said than done.

Stephanie Slater: 8:56

And so you so talk to me about with Mamma Mia. So your would this is the one or four like now we're really coming out? Can you say your one or four in that team as well? So how are you all friends like prom? Well, now I hope you

Unknown: 9:12

were extraordinary, extraordinarily lucky. We've just got an incredible team and you guys will know that it's really the people around you. So I knew I actually came into the business a little bit later than the three original founders. I managed the PR for the launch of it. I knew Charlotte from way back. And I was living in Brisbane at the time. And then she was like, actually, can you just join the business and I had moved from Brisbane to Melbourne right at the beginning of it and we got like within a week we got locked down. And I was I had two young children. My husband who worked in media was all of a sudden literally working around the clock. I didn't know anyone who had their family. It was actually quite traumatising if I look back on it. So I had gone through a couple of months like that, and the girls were like, can you join the business, we need your skill set. And I was like, I don't know if I can cope with this. But I just knew I needed something else to think about because I just couldn't handle hearing the statistics and the numbers every single day was just driving me crazy. Because as you know, I can do much during this time. So it really was a lifeline to me to be involved in something with such passion and purpose. And, yeah, it's been a great blessing. So the four of us together are a force and we speak a million times a day we text a million times a day is when do we don't even use Slack or anything other than that, just like everything is conducted on text. You know what that? Is it voice memos. Because there are things on The Voice Memo trainer, there actually aren't too much on the voice memos,

Stephanie Slater: 10:48

but that get on it. Texting takes too long. I don't have time to text you

Unknown: 10:54

text a lot just using memes and gifts. Yeah,

Stephanie Slater: 10:56

that's, yeah, no, it's a time and place for that. Yeah.

Unknown: 11:02

Yeah, I think yeah, as females, you know that cliche, but we do communicate really well. And that's what it's about. And I think we've got an inherent respect about where all of our skill sets lie within the business, there's a bit of overlap with them off, which is great. But together, we we know, if I feel really strongly about something, they'll be like, Yeah, I respect your, your knowledge and your your expertise in this area. And we'll go with that. And the same across with all we do. So Christina heads up all operations and logistics, and bit of export Charlotte's our sales director who's just honestly could sell ice to the water to the fish. She's incredible. And Belinda, who is just got this amazing AB brain, head for numbers, but a creative genius. And then I sit in the kind of PR marketing field. So I kind of have done a bit more around the voice brand. So we kind of Yeah, we don't hail into each other. But there's a lot of overlap. And we've just found a really great, you know, because it's it doesn't always work with for quite strong characters. But somehow we've made it work. We all work from home, we come in and we see each other, you know, every now and then when we need to. And you know, it's a bit of a flat hierarchy at the moment, you know, probably as we scale, we'll probably need to bring someone on. But for now, it's worked really well.

Stephanie Slater: 12:25

And what's it other than needing sort of meaning and more beyond COVID? Life? What was it about Mamamoo that you resonated with that that made you passionate, I think I connect with this and I want to be a part of this brand. I

Unknown: 12:38

guess for me, it really was understanding the fact that there were limitations around what we could do. And for PR marketer, that was just a challenge. So for me, it's become about PR in something I can't PR about. And that's interesting to a Serbian would I have thought I'd end up in the infant formula space. Absolutely. No, it's, you know, and now knowing what we know now, would we I'm not sure. Isn't that what they always say it's a lot, it's a lot, but to be involved in something that we're you know, and we'll probably touch on this a bit more, as we, you know, discuss a bit more, but we really feel like even in this space of time that we've been in this, which is we're coming into our third year on shelf, we really feel there's a change in terms of the dialogue, the next generation that come through, won't stand for the fact that they're not getting the information or the support around feeding their baby. So to be part of that movement is really rewarding. And it really gives you that when we hear from customers, honestly every day and thank you for not judging me. I really struggled with this and you guys gave me the confidence and that is makes you get out of bed every day because you're like you're having an impact. Yeah, so that for me was really the game changer. And

Stephanie Slater: 14:03

I'd love to go work and we will go more into like why you kind of what it is and all that kind of thing. But I just when you said that I resonated so much because I with Sebastian he was he was only like a little bit preemie he was literally like a few days, I think. But he ended up having to go to NICU for four nights. And I couldn't breastfeed as much as feed as much as I would have liked to because of whatever. And we knew he had to get formula and my milk didn't come in like it probably would have if I was just doing total breastfeeding that whole time. Yada, yada, yada. And then it got to a point where I was doing everything. I mean, like I was expressing I was, you know, the pumping and the storage. And then I was, you know, breastfeeding and then I take off and I had, oh my gosh, my nipples are a mess. And I'd have nipple shields now this gel and that data to data and I saw this lactation consultant and it was like keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. And my mental health is I'm yeah,

Unknown: 14:55

like roughly suspicious. Michael isn't if I have sent you this stress about it and yeah, As you saw, not so much not Yeah, getting

Stephanie Slater: 15:02

any milk. And then I remember I went to like, Okay, I just have to surrender to the fact that I'm going to have to formula feed. And it was surrender to the fact it wasn't empowering. No, it felt so bad. And I still push it shave and I still push through. And I ended up breastfeeding both kids, I had the most harrowing first four months of breastfeeding with both. But it was so upsetting, especially now when I look back. And I think for me, like, I look back, and I think, what did I do to myself and why my child has needed to be fed. And I would never ever look at another woman and say, Are you feeding from the bottle? Like that? Is your child like how insane yet? That was what I was doing to myself? Because we don't talk about. We had this I know people tried to Alfred his best, but that's not really coming through now. And is that what you're, I guess that is the movement that you're trying to push for?

Unknown: 15:50

Absolutely. It's around. It's around information. And it's around support. So currently just to and we're not talking circles around it. Currently, the system is set up so that you can't a we can't advertise stage one and stage two, which is zero to six months in six to 12 months. And the reason around that is to protect breastfeeding rates in inverted commas, which we understand why that's in place, because breastfeeding is really important. But it doesn't need to be done at the detriment of women at use formula. Through choice or circumstance, right? There's this whole other conversation to be had about having agency over your own body. And that choice to feed your baby as you see fit. So the this the advertising component, but we're we're okay with that. Because breastfeeding is really important. And we need to encourage women who want to do that. That's absolutely we're pro breastfeeding formula company. But you can't access the information through the health system. So like your experience with the lactation consultant. For starters, you don't can't get a lactation consultant on Medicare. So the system doesn't even support you. If you want to breastfeed. Yep, so then it becomes something that only people that can afford, a lactation consultant can get an access. So the system just at every turn is really set up to fail women whether they breastfeed and, or formula fed. Exactly. And that's inherently what we have an issue with, because you can't say we recommend you breastfeed your baby exclusively for six months, recommended two years, obviously as part of a solid by six months. But we're only going to give you 12 weeks paid maternity leave, and no lactation. So like it just doesn't. Yeah, it's

Stephanie Slater: 17:40

okay. One thing Yeah, it

Unknown: 17:42

doesn't add up. It's really logical when you look at it like that. So on one hand, you're telling people, women must breastfeed, because this is the only thing you can do for your baby. It's the best thing you can do for your baby. But we're not going to support you to do that. You know, we've got some kind of, you know, vague laws around making sure you can breastfeed at work legally, but let's be honest, most of the times it's the store room with a chair and feel like if you're lucky, there's no you know, it's exasperating. It's just just go how are we still here in 2024? So yeah, we our wish is that women that wanted or needed to access information around formula could also get it through the health system. So currently, unless your baby is really struggling, like got an allergy baby, or you're in a mental health crisis, I won't recommend formula to you. Because breast is the only way forward. So it stems back. To give it even more perspective back in the 70s. Nestle were accused of going into third world countries and kind of giving out their product which then women stopped lactating, didn't have access to clean water, things like that, and couldn't afford to keep using the product would water down the products and their babies got sick. And unfortunately, I believe that some actually died. This is generations ago. Horrific, absolutely should be had okay held accountable for for that. But the consequence of that was that the World Health Organisation put these mandates around recommendations for breastfeeding in Australia. Our interpretation of that and if you will, is called the maif agreement, which is the maternal and infant formula feeding guidelines and it's around advertising and health practitioners and what they can and can't do around infant formula. So, infant formula companies can't go into a hospital and give out pens with the brand name on it at all, you know, they can't incentivize health care workers and that kind of thing, which is all good and appropriate to do, but the consequence of not even having it as an option if a woman chooses to use it or needs it's quite clearly struggling. You know, we're pushing women out of the health system before they milk's come in? Yeah. Your experience. Yeah. And then they wonder why they're not. Yeah. So if the system is just broken, it really doesn't work. So we just think that women should be able to get that right to the information. Absolutely.

Will Slater: 20:15

I don't know if they're on the only one. But going into having kids, there's so much that you don't know. And you're so naive about so many things. But you can't possibly prepare yourself. But you probably think forward and you get, you know, the education sessions around sleep and changing nappies and all this kind of stuff. And you sort of you anticipate that some of those things are going to be really hard. But the breastfeeding thing was something that I think hit us like a tonne of bricks. And obviously, I wasn't directly impacted by it like you were. But the difficulty that you faced through that journey. And that experience of trying to breastfeed was so brutal. And I remember sitting there watching shahada support, or I don't know what the hell to do, she was like Stephanie's in tears with this baby who's probably hungry and trying to feed and it was just an absolute shitshow. And I'm sitting there most, you know, most of the time just like watching on thinking, what do we do it because this is clearly not good for anyone, but there's no information, there's no education, and we just had no, I don't think either of us expected it to be the one of the hardest things, especially in those first three to four months of becoming new parents was that you have this child that supposedly in my naivety would just latch on because that's what they do. But it's true. It's so not like that. It's the total opposite to that.

Unknown: 21:40

I mean, and it can be for some women. Yeah. And that's for sure. You know, obviously we're generalising here, but so often it's not, and it picks up those women that fall through the cracks. Yeah.

Stephanie Slater: 21:50

And there's even like, I remember the isolation of pumping and having to lock myself in a room. Yeah, and you know, try and get this milk supply. And you know, it'd be 20 million was like, yeah, a drop, drop. Drop. Exactly. And then it was, yeah, it was such an awful feeling. But Never did I feel like I could turn to formula.

Unknown: 22:08

And why do you think that is? It was never talked

Stephanie Slater: 22:11

about it was never offered? It was never, right. Yeah. It was also demonised

Unknown: 22:16

as if it's framed if you're not getting the information and it's just by that very nature exactly framed as a secondary really inferior option as

Stephanie Slater: 22:26

is inferior that the breast is best, all this stuff like from from the moment of colostrum, you know, this liquid gold. I remember even that, like syringing bits out of my boobs for colostrum and because it's why I got handbuilt

Unknown: 22:41

which that was. That was, yeah, they literally like we're gonna milk you Yes. Pretend. I'm the milkman. And you're the cow. Yeah. And that's fine. Isn't that cold hands coming up my nipples online. Wow. Because I actually made quite a bit of milk. So my breastfeeding journey I had quite gigantic children's. So I ended up just mixed feeding formula at night. And that gave my body a break. It worked really well for me. And I had friends that struggled with breastfeeding. I like you said early. I just like I just could not imagine sitting in the same room and being like, what? Yeah, I'm a better mom than. Yeah, that's just absurd. Yeah. Yeah, you put that so much pressure on yourself as leaders, and we see that daily.

Stephanie Slater: 23:25

So how are you finding ways to inform and educate moms within these regulations that hope for y'all from?

Unknown: 23:35

I don't understand you just, it's just opening up the conversation, really. So we talked about it a lot, obviously, on our social channels, we're at an expo is having conversations with women. So we just did an expo recently. And we've noticed in the two years of women coming up to us and being like, I plan on breastfeeding, but I just really want to know what's out there. If it doesn't work out, or when I go back to work. Yeah, that for us is like huge, like that knowledge is is empowering for your parenting journey, and they're really just a little bit more open to that as opposed to being I'm going to breastfeed and be only and Darling, you know, that path might not always work out. And that's going to be really hard for for that poor woman who might not be expecting that to be as easy as they think. And especially if it's their first you know, when you had your second, not always, you know, just a little by way I used to be Yeah, you know what, I

Will Slater: 24:30

think you're also kind of hard with Arabella because there was this expectation that I've done it before. I'll do it again. And that wasn't necessarily the case. No, both

Stephanie Slater: 24:38

kids four months to the date traumatising. And then suddenly something flipped and I was able to get through it and I kept breastfeeding and I loved it. Absolutely. But God knows first of all do awful.

Unknown: 24:51

That's the thing. It's like never a straightforward, rarely straightforward pathway. So did you develop any kind of Pandy around your experience?

Will Slater: 25:08

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Stephanie Slater: 25:43

Well, I was diagnosed with postnatal fix

Unknown: 25:46

so I relate that to your feeding journey or is it a culmination of motherhood and culmination

Stephanie Slater: 25:51

but if I'm definitely combination definitely combination because you know Sebastian was born in the peak of COVID You know, we were we were regional when my family friends were in Melbourne. You know there was all that kind of thing. We had two miscarriages obviously then but I do like honestly when I look back on my breastfeeding and I think of those for like I've romanticised it because it was so beautiful for the last six months nine months whatever what's for minus a year that I'm like I said that I so I've definitely romanticise it which is why when I went in with Arabella is like oh my gosh that was beautiful and I loved and Donnelly I was like oh shit how do I get this kid to latch like with a mouth is so tiny how? But when I actually think about those first four months with both of them it was harrowing. I cried a lot. I had damaged nipples I would feed through bleeding through mastitis through like awful awful and when I think about that I do I feel sick. And it sounds like not now but sometimes I wake up and I think

Unknown: 26:52

like what that week's be our day with you

Stephanie Slater: 26:55

totally, totally hidden repress it.

Unknown: 26:57

We should call we'll do Yeah, yeah. For certain aspects of that parenting journey. But yeah, it doesn't need to be like that. Right? Yeah.

Stephanie Slater: 27:04

And I just think if if I was told, Hey, this is just as good Yeah, back from the start not like when I've inverted commas failed at breastfeeding. Try this. If it's like these are two options. And it from from day one, though, but I guess we can't do that. No,

Unknown: 27:21

it's interesting, isn't it? You talked about like the dialogue around I think I've listened to an earlier podcast we talked about his his area and as well about that not being in Nashville already. comas Berg,

Stephanie Slater: 27:32

because you had an interview?

Unknown: 27:33

I did. Yeah. Great. Yeah, totally. And I you know, I remember with my first actually, so I had a giant so my first was the only five kilos. Yes. So that's why he had no he apparently. This is really interesting, because I had one baby in South Australia and one baby in Brisbane. So the baby in Adelaide, he got taken away because he was five kilos and because he was a C section baby fluid on his lungs. So they have to put them in NICU. So I couldn't really do that skin to skin for too long. And unbeknownst to me, they'd fit him formula. And I just remember because, you know, my understanding of the times, like if you don't breastfeed straightaway, it's not going to take to you and then yeah, ruined it. I remember just being devastated. And my obstetrician came in, he was like, You're and we've got to understand bonding happens over days, months, weeks, and it's not just feeding like that whole you know, myth that you only bond with your baby if you breastfeed, of course she can bond with the breast breastfeeding like it's a specialist It's beautiful, but she can also bond with a bottle Yeah, and you bond with your baby in multiple other ways as well throughout that parenting journey so the whole dialogue around

Will Slater: 28:47

well that assumes then that no father can bond with their child which

Unknown: 28:52

but it's all that rhetoric that exists around or failure to thrive yeah until birth is like that competitive edge that yeah, we seem to put on everything and so what was the difference between Adelaide and okay so they he had infant formula straight out the gate and as my milk came in I kept giving he was drinking seriously like 80 to 120 mils as a newborn he just was like ah hungry baby might wasn't coming in for it until like day 311 Because that's what happens. And so they were feeding because he was hungry. Then my second I just I was I'm going to feed him formula until my comes in and he was still on me because I ended up having a very great breastfeeding journey with my first I've met him for a year yet he had a bottle of formula at night I found that it actually extended my feeding journey be and didn't need to pump didn't ever my body just kind of did. Did. I was really unfortunate for that. And then the second one that I was had him at what they call a Baby Friendly Hospital. I didn't know what a baby friendly I just assumed The postal was, yeah. What?

Stephanie Slater: 30:01

It's the opposite. Yeah, that's alarming man. Why do why do they might emphasise it? So it turns

Unknown: 30:09

out baby friendly isn't necessarily mum friendly. Because they were so kind of what the rest about the breastfeeding that I knew that when he was born because he was still being not quite as big as my first but I knew that my babies would be hungry and couldn't wait for my milk to come in. So I was wanting to feed him some formula. And I remember asking them for some you know, you get those bottles Yeah, hospital and they're like, oh, no, no, no, just wait female. Wait, just keep massaging her. Okay, sure. Okay, maybe that's something that's gonna come up quicker the second time round. Who knows? So I remember waiting and he was really unhappy. And I said, Oh, can you can I get that formula? And they'll like, oh, we'll just see. We'll just see just keep trying keep trying keep blotchy. Let's skip setting. Yeah, no, you don't need it, it'd be just fine. You've got this. And then I eventually had a friendly midwife. And she gave me a formula. But I was in a room this is at this hospital that shall remain nameless. And I got to move to a better room because I was there for seven days because had a C section which was right because by that time your meal comes in so it's I'm kind of really of the opinion everyone should have a seven day stay right. And so I moved room and they were like just put all your stuff on the bed and we're just going to will the bed up. So it's like it's great did that so by the time I got up to my room, whoever had moved or taken the bulk formula away before me Norway. So in the end, I had to get my husband to come in with a team like smuggle attorney in what and then they were no bottle making facilities on the maternity ward. I had to go to the visitors lounge and use the kettle there.

Stephanie Slater: 31:57

See, but that shocks me because if your baby friendly, so you're happy to allow the baby to be friendly man bed for how long till your milk comes in. Like in

Unknown: 32:05

that environment Baby Friendly means pro breastfeeding with so they would do everything to support you in your breastfeeding journey. Again, I ended up breastfeeding that baby for nine to 12 months.

Stephanie Slater: 32:21

But how and I have a girlfriend who was really similar. She tried breastfeeding. It wasn't happening her baby actually was Reif like vomiting it up every time it just wasn't working. And the midwives was so intense on her like grabbing her boob you know, you have to feed her to do that. And she actually just, it wasn't a baby friendly husband. So I guess they had the formula facilities and things like that. But she actually said stop. I'm feeding my child with formula Stop pushing me for breastfeeding. It is not working my child's throwing up and dog like she but she had to advocate so hard for herself and her baby we get So imagine

Unknown: 32:54

if you're really vulnerable new mom for the first time up, which she may well have been but she had the confidence to do that. Yeah, and you don't because and the been really I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, there's before. It's going to happen naturally. Right now. I've got someone walking me. Like what didn't didn't tell me that in the class. So you know, you get all those, you know, the antenatal classes and the breastfeeding classes. But there's no kind of resource. Like we will literally get women like users going, how do I make a bottle? Because there's nothing out there? Yes.

Stephanie Slater: 33:26

Yeah.

Unknown: 33:26

What do I do?

Stephanie Slater: 33:28

I remember hearing of Mr. You know, the

Unknown: 33:30

firm's mister we love them, Mr. Girl. Yeah, shout out to Mr. Good. Well,

Stephanie Slater: 33:34

that's when I thought I was going to do I see my children wouldn't take a bottle. We tried so hard to do the whole midwife Catholic and do it at night. And it just became it's awful for you and the child. But when I thought no, I'm going to we're going to pass it here with this. I went and bought the Mr. Bottle because but that was only through social media that I understood that then I was like, how do you sterilise? What does that mean? What do you mean, I need to buy the things? Or how do I like what how it seems so hard

Unknown: 33:59

for love the easy way out? Right? I know that

Stephanie Slater: 34:02

that's what's crazy. It's just Yeah, it's such a whole world that. But again, this is where I feel like and I don't mean to be like all feminist or whatever. But I just feel like it's another space in which women are let down by the system where harm intended, but totally. But you know, we're not empowered. We don't have agency. Were just like, oh, it's frustrating. We're

Unknown: 34:29

a product of the system that is just not there to support us. And it's just inherently wrong. If it was, I'm sorry. But if it was men that were in charge of beating babies

Stephanie Slater: 34:39

league about erectile dysfunction and whatever you need for that, but you can't promote how to feed a baby other than breasts like it seems

Will Slater: 34:46

such a state, such a systemic issue, and it's so true across all areas of healthcare, but also in a whole range of other sectors

Unknown: 34:56

in Victoria, they've launched an inquiry where you can actually meat a response to forgetting what it's called Sorry. It's around basically women's hysteria like you know women not being believed within the system for whatever issue that that might be and just been not heard throughout whatever process and they've now opened a form I carry around Wow. You know, if you've had a story to tell around how you haven't been believed by the health physio and for whatever reason, because of making up for health problems, it's likely that

Stephanie Slater: 35:33

it's even and I'm sure it was, I think it was Queensland but and I don't remember what it's called Nuff said isn't I should really know because I've said it in the podcast before without knowing the name of it, but it's something law. I'm sure it's the name of a mum who they pass a law where if the mum I know this is a little bit different thought that something was going on with the child lion's roar. I think Ryan's yeah, see it? Yeah. Well, Ryan,

Unknown: 35:52

that was where your baby in? You're not happy with the Yeah, you had polish and they have two lists out it? Yeah. Yeah. escalated to a senior doctor. Yeah.

Stephanie Slater: 36:02

Which I think is incredible. But why is that? Not nationwide? Yeah, like so what one state says, We value moms and the rest of them were still don't really trust a little bit tricky. Mother's

Unknown: 36:11

intuition now? Yeah.

Will Slater: 36:13

Oh. That isn't that. Obviously, it's a obviously it's a major challenge. And we found the same thing. When we were going around, we did a bunch of research when we first started watching escalate, and it was obviously related to Stephanie's experience. And the initial idea was exactly where we've started with these, you know, personalised prescription supplements. But we started speaking to women who shared a whole range of issues and challenges that they faced in dealing with their own healthcare. And one of the primary issues that we were made aware of which we had no idea of going into it was this advocacy that they had to do on their own behalf for their own health, and then feeling totally disempowered and shunned and not listened to when it came to issues that they had about their own health and the health of their family. And that wasn't just GPS, but practitioners just didn't listen to them. And it took them so long to actually just say, hey, there's really something not going on here. I know there's not and I need you to listen to me depressant. Oh, totally.

Stephanie Slater: 37:20

Like it's more than just you throwing this pill me there's actually more going on. Listen, do

Unknown: 37:24

you hear that like with endometriosis? Or is that like, you've just got bad period? Pain? Yeah. Yeah, it takes years to get that diagnosed. And

Stephanie Slater: 37:31

even with that, it's like, I'll just throw the pillow at you. Yeah, you know, like we mascot mascot mascot. And we're not actually listening to what women are saying. Yeah.

Will Slater: 37:38

But I do think it's, it's, it feels empowering for us. And I'm sure with you guys at Memorial as well that their you know, revolution start at the ground, and they build momentum and they create change over time. It is it's not going to be a top down approach. That's the government's not going to turn around and say, let's change all these systems and the way we do things, the healthcare systems are going to just, you know, spin on its head and say, Okay, now let's, let's totally change the way let's go. It's just never going to happen is it like it's got it has to start from the ground up from people who are unwilling to accept the standard that currently exists and be prepared to do something about it to change it. And then over time, that builds momentum, and that creates the broader shift. But that, I mean, that feels really exciting, I think to us, and I'm sure with you guys as well, if we can actually be part of that shift that occurs, we can do something about it. And I think that's what drives us so much every day. And I think that's so powerful for us as parents as well to demonstrate to our kids is like, you see a problem, be part of the change, like either sit around and complain about it or go on fucking do something. And that is the best way. And I think it's yeah, that that part of is exciting. Whilst it's obviously harrowing to hear the stories like this, and I can't help it. Now being in a female oriented business. I'm exposed to so many things and stories that I was naive to, like, does it mean I think I already? Yeah, I think I already had a level of empathy towards it. But I didn't have an understanding about it. And I still don't like I am aware of my naivety in areas and I might say something or do something. It's like, well, what the fuck and then Stephanie corrects me and it's like, okay, yep, that makes sense. But I wasn't aware of that. And I think

Stephanie Slater: 39:29

you're a little bit of a unicorn when it comes like I will give you that compliment. When it comes to men.

Unknown: 39:34

I actually hate that word. Let's end the pulsating. ringtone

Stephanie Slater: 39:42

on repeated but on your on call. I think sometimes you don't realise that your way of thinking about things is not the norm for men. The I think a lot like even even just we've talked about this before but if we talk about period, there's so many men that oh blood, oh, whatever, oh, and it's like this immature response period or like, Oh, you're on your period. And yeah, that kind of comment will would never, ever, ever speak to me that way he would never be like, oh, what you got your periods coming this week, I mean, maybe in a joke from being real bitch that you know, or even if we're talking about women's rights, and he, you know, sees it as like I can be this ally for you in whatever in spite in spaces and rooms that you can't exist yet. I get to be the ally. And we experienced that. And you may have, especially as a female run female lead business, we will go into meetings, and it actually happened twice. But talking to chuck totally, I'm talking about pre sale depression. I'm talking about supplements for moms, pregnancy postpartum and their eyes. It's like, well, I don't exist. So hello,

Will Slater: 40:45

Stephanie to be like, redirect the attention, redirect the attention, but it just

Unknown: 40:50

didn't grind. Yeah, it there's just a lot to be done. Yeah.

Will Slater: 40:55

How have you found that as a fully female, lead and founded business? Have you come across challenges, either through suppliers or funding? Or any I know you've self funded so far, but

Unknown: 41:08

yes, and no, to be truthful? I think I'm like right at the beginning. And, you know, this is not limited just to our business. And I'm sure it's for you, you've had this as well, where we've had buyers and like, why, why we don't want you to lose your house. We really like you guys like this. What are you doing? This is crazy. And that kind of disbelief. And I think as entrepreneurs, you you're willing to kind of take those risks. And so at first, I think people thought it would never work. But I think that's inherently the nature of taking this, especially as Friday, yeah, of this magnitude and taking on big guys. So it wasn't that I don't feel like that was necessarily gendered. But we've been really fortunate to have a lot of incredible, you know, people in our corner as well that are male, so certainly not an anti male bashing question at all. We've had some input, some still do incredible. You know, bank managers and accountants and all these guys in our corner that are really believe in us in what we're doing and are behind us all the way. And our partners. Yeah, husband? And yeah.

Will Slater: 42:19

I'm not surprising, like, I appreciate the compliment. But I don't necessarily think it's true either. Like, I think there's there's always a portion of people that are immature, and just, you know, find whatever. But I think I think the vast not maybe not the vast majority. I still think that Be careful about how I say this, because I think I can

Stephanie Slater: 42:38

the minority, not the majority. But

Will Slater: 42:41

I think there's a shift from men who didn't qualify for this thing. It's a lack of awareness. And it's a lack of understanding like, yeah, how can you have an empathy or understanding towards an issue if you don't understand it? Or don't see it for yourself? And I think,

Unknown: 42:59

like you're not interested in learning. Yeah,

Will Slater: 43:01

we're not prepared to learn about it. Totally. Right. I think that's absolutely true. And I think that hopefully, me being part of these conversations, I can add my two cents as well. And my perspective, and I think extremes in any situation aren't helpful. It's about how do we bring it together and find a middle ground, but I think there'd be far more male advocates than you think there might be. And it's a, it's about helping them understand the issue that exists and why it exists to then create some of the shifts that we're trying to create. Yes, I

Stephanie Slater: 43:34

take back my compliment. You're not a unicorn, you're just to stand in a couple of minutes. What's the point?

Unknown: 43:43

That you could also be the so called she moves? Yeah, probably, you know, like a driver like so you might be you know, what recive might be a column a bit of column B. For sure. Without generalising sociology, yeah.

Stephanie Slater: 44:01

Because we do have incredible males that back us, and they're divine. And I'm just like, I want more of you people around. So there are of course there are. I did want to also say I am conscious, which I feel like we sound conscious all the time all the time with our podcasts. But I think testament to what Mamma Mia was done. So you you said earlier, you've been three years on the show. Yeah. So out of three years, two years, you've won awards. Yeah. That's incredible. You won Best Business South Australia in 2012. And then Telstra Business Yeah,

Unknown: 44:27

so that we just won Telstra, best of business, accelerating women. And that was a really incredible congratulations. Yeah, because that was really rad. It wasn't just because we're business women. It was actually our root cause. And we had this incredible judging panel with Tanisha, Gloucester and DPLA. And they were just said we also had been Dawson as well from Cisco. They were incredible support team and they just understood the work to be done and they were like, we get it and we want to give you this platform so that we was really exciting for amazing. And it was a bit of a kind of a national. Here we are moment. Yeah. So that's been exciting. Yeah. And, and winning the awards are incredible, but hearing from our customers that the products good that's working for them and they feel supported is so satisfying.

Stephanie Slater: 45:20

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we can we can everything, doesn't it as I say,

Unknown: 45:24

and you would have that every day like yours is so immediate as well. Yeah,

Stephanie Slater: 45:29

I mean, supplement like personalised support. They take a little bit of time, but we've actually been shocked at how quick has been for some months. But I

Unknown: 45:37

tend to be no data on that, because it's never been personalised before.

Stephanie Slater: 45:41

Yeah, yeah. All we can say is, Are you feeling better than yesterday? And but I think like, obviously, we've not won any awards or anything like that. We will. But I think that when you get that message where that mom says, Oh, my gosh, I can't believe you know, I'm feeling this or I, you know, thank you. You just go. Yeah, yeah, this is why we're doing what we're doing. 100% Yeah, really puts that pep in your step. Say send us those reviews. Yes, absolutely.

Unknown: 46:07

Only your customers when they your biggest advocates. Yeah, half job done. Right. They're totally that word of mouth.

Stephanie Slater: 46:15

Yeah. But well done to you. Because you created you and your business partners have created a phenomenal business and doing God's work for women who are feeding their babies.

Will Slater: 46:24

What surprised you about that? Were you prior to jumping into Mamamoo? What was were you in? You're an entrepreneur then were you in a a I

Unknown: 46:31

my backgrounds been primarily PR and doing a bit of freelance writing and things like that. And, you know, motherhood? Obviously, for me, you know, my husband was the breadwinner. So, it was a natural assumption that I would kind of No, that was absolutely a choice on my part to I really wanted, raised them as much as I could from home in those early years. And then I got really bored of that, and kids school age now, that, you know, really changes opens up those possibilities, you know, so I've had a really, really lucky, you know, it's not without its hard work, obviously, for everyone, you know, and everyone parents are hard workers. And, you know, I do look back on my career when I've worked in agent ad agencies, and not really understanding working parents and especially working mums, and you know, I took it Oh, and I want to come for drinks or anything. Yeah, that they're just not interested in socialising. This is so and

Stephanie Slater: 47:35

they're out the door at like five five I was in the hot you don't work hard. Yeah.

Unknown: 47:40

Oh my god, I take my hat off to working parents like you and I just don't steal some of those mothers. They work that ours is off and they know they've got limited time to be there. They do the work and then they're out because they have to do their work no second job start for

Will Slater: 47:57

is maximum effectiveness I think they'd be became become

Unknown: 48:01

really good at utilising your time, don't you? Because you have to out of necessities. Totally. And there's no time for socialising.

Stephanie Slater: 48:06

No, and I feel like even when you I remember what you went because pride is being a teacher. I would go into a day and I think I've just dealt with three meltdowns and like, breakfast thrown everyone I've been up since six and now I'm now I'm starting my workday that my day started four hours ago, Leia and ready time. Yeah, and then I'm dealing with hormonal teenagers. So that was but I think if you're not a parent, you're like, oh, you know, I was here at like, 8am And I'm like, You got on you. You

Unknown: 48:32

probably got gas bagging coffee.

Stephanie Slater: 48:34

You probably should have joking young people. Melanie Millennials versus Gen Z. Gen Z. Gen Z

Unknown: 48:40

are what away?

Stephanie Slater: 48:41

I think my millennial women I think we're still in the like, millennial, but they're the Gen z's. Have you seen all those tick tock things where they do a like they ask a question Do I millennial or Gen Z? And they have to like they do the phone and so we all do that. And they're just like they're like well, the window the window is the best way life is. You can't say this. I'm winding down and then the Gen Z is just like press a button. Yeah,

Unknown: 49:05

I think I might zeneo just hot eggs hot millennials. Without the internet but young enough to understand how to write

Stephanie Slater: 49:15

what was it called video as Emil?

Unknown: 49:18

Like that's like 1980 to really giving it away that's

Stephanie Slater: 49:25

what it is. You're exactly right. Yeah. Oh girl

Unknown: 49:34

don't like the Bicentennial medal of honour. No. Okay with ace amigo. Oh, that's so funny. Oh, anyway, yeah, I need a healthy ageing. Are you doing any Peri menopausal

Stephanie Slater: 49:49

extension extensions? By brand? Watch this space the

Unknown: 49:54

most requested? Yeah, so really airy or menopausal or just Jen

Stephanie Slater: 49:58

by all of it. Yeah, well, we We're just talking with our lead practitioner and she was talking about that perimenopause starts at like 37. Which I was like Sorry, What? What? What what what I'm still like watching. And I think of my mom when I think like menopause. But so my mom when we first first first started asking her we got all our family and friends on it, like, can you just trial and see what it's like efficacy yada, yada. But my mom's on it and she has loved it. Your mom's on it? And my mom's friends are asking. I know they like in the motherhood but would they support like what they just do me is the special thing, which we absolutely will because we can but it's totally set up but I think again, it's the the journey of womanhood just never ends. And if it's a ride, and it's so up and down, like

Unknown: 50:46

I guess it's not gonna work. She feel like there you go off a cliff. We're totally like, I'm just kind of really really at the beginning of that period. Yeah, I'm just like, Okay, I probably need to start thinking about Yeah, how is amazing after menopause is what I

Stephanie Slater: 51:00

go up to like 60 or whatever. It depends how early you start, but it's like I get to start my life at 62 through those tampons delay Oh, that'll be the day but yeah, anyway, so yeah, well supply whatever you did to the good stuff from the back cover

Unknown: 51:27

no one

Stephanie Slater: 51:28

Yeah, we don't publicise that but oh gosh. Anyway,

Unknown: 51:32

thanks for having been a lot of fun. Joining us appreciate it

Stephanie Slater: 51:35

and yes, we wish me the best of luck. You're just doing great thing from what

Unknown: 51:40

you're doing to new build such a beautiful thing from France.

Will Slater: 51:43

Where can people find you? I know you're in some retail stores you're doing day to day as well? Yes.

Unknown: 51:48

Where I'm where a lot so you can buy directly through us. The benefit of that is we all portions of online sale goes towards Panda, beautiful perinatal and anxiety and depression Australia, which is a cause that's really close to our heart. Or you can buy nationally through chemists warehouse or at good independent grocers nationwide.

Stephanie Slater: 52:08

And you got the memo to Yes, congratulation and that they're

Unknown: 52:12

also been really instrumental in changing that dialogue around feeding and powering that parenting journey. However, that looks for you. So they've been great. We love the memo team. Yeah, they've been one.

Stephanie Slater: 52:25

That's fabulous. Great. So you can go to all those places. I'm at the memo all the time. So

Unknown: 52:33

our weekly income just goes to live just extra high street Armadale. So it's like, store isn't it? Gorgeous.

Stephanie Slater: 52:40

They've done a great job. Great job in the parenting space, as you said.

Unknown: 52:44

Another incredibly strong female female founder.

Stephanie Slater: 52:47

Yeah, totally. Go women. Just love you too. Yeah.

Unknown: 52:58

You're in so much fun. Thanks for Thank you. Fine.

Stephanie Slater: 53:04

Thank you for listening all the way to the end of the b&b corner brought to you by ask Lee as a way for us to say thank you. We are offering the first 50 mums a free consult and your first month's product free. All you need to do is visit escalade.co. Schedule a consult with one of our practitioners and enter the promo code BB consult. Take your first step towards personalised wellness with Escalade today.