The Unstoppable Accountant - Grow your Accounting Firm
For all things business, entrepreneurship and finance!
Hi Arun here, in this podcast I will happily share my ideas, successes and failures in growing my businesses, investment ideas, and juggling this all in a rapidly changing world.
If you are looking to grow your business, build a global team, or just need inspiration to make it happen, you have come to the right place for inspiration and action.
If you have enjoyed this podcast, make sure you check out my youtube channel, and also my global accountancy company webpage - https://sameraglobal.com/
My aim is to add value to you, your business, your life. Happy listening!
Arun
The Unstoppable Accountant - Grow your Accounting Firm
Unlocking Global Success: Why Skilled Indian Accountants Are in High Demand and How to Leverage This Opportunity
Unlock the secrets to international success for Indian Chartered Accountants with insights from industry leaders, Arun Mehra, CEO of Samera Global, and seasoned CA Hardik Chhabadha. Discover how the post-COVID global staff crunch has skyrocketed the demand for skilled accounting professionals from India. This episode covers the practical steps and strategies for setting up a successful outsourcing business, and how these opportunities can create empowering, task-oriented work environments for women in India.
Facing fears about quality, time zone differences, and process adherence? Our guests break down the strategies that enable Indian businesses to deliver exceptional services to UK and US clients. From understanding local software and cultural nuances to leveraging an entrepreneurial mindset, learn how to build trust and ensure offshoring firms deliver on their promises. We'll also explore the pivotal role of AI in modern accounting and why AI training is crucial for staying ahead.
Ready to attract clients who value quality over cost? Learn how to build a trustworthy reputation through strategic content creation and effective client acquisition tactics. Engage with platforms like LinkedIn, participate in networking events, and explore valuable resources such as new community courses on Schoolcom. Whether you're an established CA firm or a newcomer, this episode provides a roadmap for international business expansion, tapping into the vibrant opportunities within the accounting and finance sectors in India.
right, good morning everybody. Welcome to this webinar titled indian ca's how to start and build your outsourcing and offshoring business. My name is arun mera and I'm the ceo of samara global, and I'm based down here in the uk, in london uk, and I'm lucky enough to have hardik chabadha on the on the on the system as well today. Hi, hardik, how are you doing All?
Speaker 2:fine. Thank you so much, Arun, for inviting me for this meet.
Speaker 1:No problem, lovely to see you. So give me a little bit of background for everyone who's watching us here today. Who are you? What do you do? Give a bit of a history about yourself, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm truly humbled to get this invite, arun, and we had a lovely time last time when I came in the month of may and june, to you know, have a personal meet. So this is just an extension of the chat which we had done, I think, in the month of june for everyone. I am a chartered accountant and also cpa ireland, and I have had a forward opportunity to work with a mid-sized CA firm, I think where many of you might be belonging to. It was a small 100 people CA firm with a lot of listed clients though, of Israel, of Mumbai.
Speaker 2:Then I made my move to big four and then, to you know, video, where I was working as the head of offshoring for quite a number of years like seven plus years where I got an opportunity to develop their us outsourcing into audit and uk outsourcing and audit. Later on I become entrepreneur like arun not as big as him but, yeah, small, seven people outsourcing I had of accounting into uk accounting outsourcing and then recently I made my move to UK and could also develop my own audit outsourcing of some five people with a very renowned network firm based out of UK. So that's where I am, arun. We work into, you know, helping people develop their own accounting, outsourcing, audit, outsourcing from US, uk, us various region and I have my own small outsourcing so that I keep learning.
Speaker 1:Sure, perfect. Thank you, thanks for the background so hard. Now, just for everyone else's benefit, just to give everyone an understanding, my name is, as I said, amaran, and if you haven't heard a little bit about me or seen me on LinkedIn, I run an accounting. I'm a chartered accountant here in the UK. I run an accounting firm called Samara here in the UK, but a few years ago I set up Samara Global, which is an offshoring outsourcing firm. So that supports my own accounting firm, but it also supports other accountancy firms with their offshoring needs as well. And we've grown steadily over the last few years.
Speaker 1:And one of the reasons why I'm doing this webinar today with Hardik is that I get so many DMs, messages, emails saying Arun, I want to start my own outsourcing firm or I want to get clients internationally, and I thought, well, let me talk to Hardik, let's have a chat, because I know a lot of people want to do it. Ok. So I thought, well, let's have an open, open chat, an open conversation about this to address people's thoughts. Um, give our opinions, give our views, give our thoughts of where the opportunities may be. Um, also, but also it'll tell you the, the mistakes we may have made, the challenges that we have made along the way as well. So hold it, I've got. The first question I'm gonna ask is your opinion why should someone build an outsourcing or offshoring business in the current climate?
Speaker 2:I think it's an ocean of opportunities, as we both know and many people have already realized after the COVID. So there's a staff crunch outside India of quality staff at the reasonable cost. So many of the firms outside cost so many of the forms outside india. Many of the companies outside india are looking for indians by posting them on the position of prime minister, also to posting them as a ceo. So definitely they would like to have them as an accountant or auditors or text professionals in ind. And that's where I think the opportunity is for good CA firms in India who already had their own good setup of practice of accounting, auditing and taxation of similar work.
Speaker 2:How can they be bridging the gap and learn the UK practices, australia, us practices and develop similar kind of businesses which can serve the firms based out of overseas? So I think, before even we started the streaming, we were discussing the same that you know there are just some skill gap and some you know qualities they need to uh, you know apply and they're ready for know embracing the opportunities of outsourcing which can offer them a good cash flow. They can offer good opportunities to people in India and we also discussed it can be also a mode of women empowerment in India, because you can create a safe culture, safe environment for women to work in accounting, auditing, tech firms wherein the work is coming from outside India, and who better than you know women for communication and you know being task-oriented? So there are a lot of opportunities and I think India should look at it. What do you think?
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I concur with you. I think there are certainly. I entered this space out of need more than anything, because a few years ago I couldn't find people here in the UK. I was struggling, okay, and my accountancy firm was declining because the quality of staff here in the UK was declining, the costs were going up and I just thought I've had enough of this, I need to do something different. And that's when I thought I'll set up my own firm for myself or my own team in India for myself. And then I realized, well, if I can do it for myself, I can do it for other people. And that's what's happening and the opportunities.
Speaker 1:I think, as you said, ocean I think you're right they're vast. I think there's still challenges to overcome to get the business from the UK, the US. There's still big negative kind of connotation with outsourcing that I there's no doubt about it. And but I think, as an aging population happens here in the US, uk and other markets and less people going into accounting, someone has to do it. And you can present an argument and say, well, ai will take over the roles. Well, ai will take away some of the roles. Okay, but at the end of the day. You still need smart, driven, capable people, okay, and one thing I've found in my kind of set-upping in India over the last few years is that there aren't just a few capable people, there are millions of capable people, okay, which is so exciting, um, as a business owner, um, and therefore I think you can tap into that resource, um, which is not only good for business, but you can develop team members, you can build a career for them, which is very promising, particularly as particularly as you say, you mentioned the female market, and I think, yeah, if I look at my team in the UK, well, my UK accounting, my offshoring team I think about 70% of my team are female. I'm all based out of India smart, hardworking, keen, balancing family life with work, and I've only scratched the surface of this whole thing, um, and therefore I think I'll be investing more, growing more, developing more.
Speaker 1:But one of the things we have to do is get over the challenge of some of the negative connotation that there is with outsourcing, offshoring, and I think maybe about 15, 20 years ago, when I started doing outsourcing offshoring, there were lots of players. Not, there weren't many players, but it was actually really difficult to do the offshoring and outsourcing. The quality wasn't very good, the technology wasn't very good, the English speaking skills weren't very good. Move forward now to now to current time. A lot of those things have been eliminated, but the only thing that hasn't is the negative connotation or the negative thoughts with it, and that's something we have to overcome and that and that's that is changing. I can feel it, I can see it.
Speaker 1:A lot more accountancy firms in the uk and us are thinking well, you know what the pain is? Too much, I cannot find people here, I'm going to go with indian opportunity, or even the philippines or other places, but they realize that you know what for for the accountants, and indeed represent great quality, great value for money, um, and ultimately, everyone's a winner then in that situation. So, um, there are opportunities abound, and I think, if I had to say where are the opportunities? Well, where do you think the opportunities are hard? Let me ask you first where do you think the opportunities are in this? I already mentioned that from prime minister. We said prime minister, ceo, but let's say it's so vast, okay, and you've got so many. Um, we're in financial and accounting services, that's what we do, but where do you, where do you think, the opportunity. Where are they? Where should someone start? What do you think or what should they look at?
Speaker 2:I think you are, uh, really in epitome of you know, uh, how I should be answering this. So you know those. Uh, you know listeners. I can see a lot of people who are known. They've attended, so I'm really thankful to them and they've been putting messages or, you know, comments. That's great, happy to uh see them.
Speaker 2:So arun, uh, he started very lately, I think, into actively into outsourcing and he saw that, uh, his wife is also dentist and he had a very good insight about the business and he knew what are the challenges. And that's where he, you know, started with one of the rare example I come across that you know he started with healthcare sector and he just does healthcare sector accounting, like at least he started with that and he became a pinnacle of, you know, just taking care of the dental accounting. So it's very important to understand where do you see value of money? Value for money, I think you you only highlighted that term. So wherever we personally see that if I take that task, I can really create value for money for someone outside india, there lies the opportunities. To give you an example a cpa form in uk would have requirement of accountant, of tax filing professionals, someone who can help them with the urine closures. Someone who can help them with the payroll processing. Someone who can act as a VCFO or fractional CFO for the companies, for the clients. Someone who can act as a audit outsourcing professional. Someone who can act as I would say, you know, uh, known attestation services, like compilation of accounts. So all those services which in an indian cfm, locally does is exactly the you know replication of what uk firms do. They also have vat partners, income tax partners, audit partners, tax partners, I would say accounting partners, and they keep on looking for professionals who can represent their clients from India, who can take care of the execution, to review level work. So I think opportunity lies, which is exactly what we have in India for Indian CA professionals, what they are serving to Indian companies, exactly same opportunities they have with the globalization and available technology to serve the UK, us and Australia clients from India by liaising with such outside India firms if they develop the capacity and the skills which you earlier highlighted.
Speaker 2:There is a fear of quality, fear of you know quality, fear of you know different time zone, fear of you know not getting the quality resource for which they are paying for, so they are not getting the value for money, what they assumed or what they were pitched for. They have a fear that you know the proper procedure, proper processes will not be followed and people will be cutting the corners. So, yes, that fear is there, but if you are determined that you will not be followed and people will be cutting the corners, so, yes, that fear is there, but if you are determined that you will not cut the corners, you will provide the value for money service. You think you have a good insight how arun had, for, I think, dental accounting. So there lies the opportunity for you. But, yes, the primary determination of you should be what I want to give, and there lies the opportunity. What do you think?
Speaker 1:yeah, I hardly hit some very useful and important points there and I think, if I, if I looked at the UK market now, I think there's so many people who are looking for talent. Okay, but audit is a great example, because a lot of increasing audit firms here in the uk struggle to make an audit profitable. Here in the uk, um, accounts production, accounts preparation, as you said, you can use all the software that's out there, from zero to quick books, to tax, calc, all these things. Um, it's not very hard for you to pick up and learn that type of software in india. If you haven't touched it or you don't know it yet, you can probably do some courses on UK accounting or US accounting and understand, because ultimately the principles are the same. Okay, it's just understanding the local nuances and local software. So I think there's definitely opportunity there.
Speaker 1:I think one thing that um, well, and then, and if I think, if you, if you think about it, we're all talking about English speaking countries at the moment.
Speaker 1:I know everyone in India speaks very good English, but there's a whole market out there where no one's dealing with all the non-English-speaking countries of Europe, for instance, germany, france, italy. Now I don't know where they outsource to, or if they even outsource at this stage. So if you've got a budding Italian speaker or a French speaker in your family that you never know, you just don't know how these things work. Ok, so it's understanding the cultural differences. So I think I think, if you're, if you're going to go down this route, I think it's really about thinking what do I need to consider before building this type of, this type of business? Okay, because I know you might have an existing business in india dealing with indian clients, but what can I do to, um, develop that, that side of things? Okay, and in your mind, hardy, what do you think the first things that these guys should do if they're going to take that first step into starting an offshoring business?
Speaker 2:Like every startup. This is also kind of entrepreneurship mindset that they should have, and by entrepreneurship mindset we try to highlight that they should be very solution-oriented. What is the solution they want to come up with for a CA firm or a company or a corporate outside India? So approach to give that should be there. So suppose why I would have started I would have started with why that I feel pain when I see a work is not being done as efficiently as possible. It can be done.
Speaker 2:And when I look at the partners outside india going through with the painful situation of not getting staff, not getting good staff, not getting things done in a nice manner, which is involving a lot of time for them, I want to come up with a staff or a system which can minimize their time. So that's my product. So first you should be understanding that what you want to achieve, that I want to achieve that a ca firm should be understanding that. What you want to achieve, that I want to achieve that a CA firm should be able to execute your end accounting, tax filing, bat filing, audit closure, compilation. A company should be able to close its financial as early as possible. So if you have that end in your mind. Then you would be able to back solve the same, that, if I want to achieve this, what solution I can come up with, what resources I have for that. Then, if I have those resources, how I can reach out to such people who have that problem and then pitching them that, hey, I understand you have this problem, but this is what it pains me also and this is what I have come up with a solution, and these are my resources.
Speaker 2:So I think, first, recognizing what problem you want to solve and how do you want to solve, you don't need to be innovative, there are solutions already there. It's just that you should be aligned to follow that step by step model to ensure that you actually arrive at the solution. Otherwise, you will start your practice but within six months or one year you're not able to give the solution which you promised and it fails and it ends really badly. And that is also one of the reasons why there is fear of failure, or a fear in the mindset of the onshore or on-site firms, because they've gone through with such accountants from Singapore, from Sri Lanka, from India, from Bangladesh, from Pakistan. Mindset of the onshore or on-site firms because they've gone through with such accountants from Singapore, from Sri Lanka, from India, from Bangladesh, from Pakistan, a lot of countries, who came and sold them something, but then it didn't, you know, get them any solution. What do you think you know?
Speaker 1:can be added. I think you're right. I think for many years people were offering offshoring, outsourcing from India and other places and they failed to deliver because they didn't understand the problem that people have in these firms. And you have to get into the shoes of your customer and understand their pain points. Of uk us accounting firms obviously we're talking about there's a staff shortage, but it's the pain points of many of these firms is they still need to comply and file all the information on a deadline, but clients aren't necessarily providing that information on a timely basis. They still have the pain points of trying to make it a profitable venture okay for themselves, quite often, or not, a lot of the work that they do isn't profitable because they've got high costs in america or the uk or us. Okay in that respect. So, and I think the pain point also is technology technology is changing so quickly and I know as a firm owner myself like every, every every month, there seems to be new uk technology to buy or embrace and like how do I deal with that? And I think if you could, if you can, provide a solution to firms here in the uk, us, all right. I understand your problem, this is our solution and, as hardy said, there are our providers out there providing technology solutions at a cost-effective manner then you will stand out, you'll be different, but I think it's all well and good doing that, okay, and I think it's important to understand the pain.
Speaker 1:But I think one thing that we've seen those hardy and this is probably a very important point is, as I said right at the outset, I get messages all the time from accountancy firms in india, or cas in india and other parts of the world pakistan, bangladesh, you name it. I had I don't know how many, hundreds upon hundreds, okay, and I'm being approached. I imagine most other firms in the uk, us, are being approached as well, and it's got to a point where I think it's just got quite silly, okay, where any time anyone sees a message from an Indian accountant or an Asian accountant, they just ignore it. Okay, because they just know it's just, they think it's some type of spam, and that's the challenge you might have is because it's annoying, it's frustrating, there's no value added in that correspondence, and I think that's something that has to be addressed. Okay, and the only way to address that is that you have to stand out in this sea of competition and be different, okay, and the way to do that is to, as Hardik mentioned, understand their pain points, come and talk to people, experience their issues and then present, not in a hard sell way, but in an understanding way, and understand your client. Remember this is a relationship. They're not going to the market to buy bananas and apples and mangoes and stuff. They're looking for a long-term relationship to build a long-term business for themselves. And I think the way that I've seen many people approach this is so we can do it for five dollars an hour, seven dollars an hour, three dollars an hour, whatever it is ten dollars an hour.
Speaker 1:I think you're going down the wrong, wrong route. People aren't the customers. Clients here in the uk aren't necessarily, or the us don't necessarily want it to be cheap. They just want to make sure it's a good solution. Okay, a good solution may cost money. Okay, they'll pay it. Okay, what do you? What do you think? Am I? Am I right in saying this, hardik? What do you think?
Speaker 2:perfectly, perfectly right. I think in pricing you touched it the node correctly. I might have pitched to the client some x and they ended up giving x plus 25 percent. I didn't have to negotiate the you know the. I don't know whether my customer will be listening or not, but I was expecting, uh, you know, 75 percent maybe of you know what they would have offered. But definitely, if we are there to understand their pain, they're ready to pay but they're looking for long-term relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah they're looking for long-term right here and they're looking for quality okay, not for cost, not for cheap. If there's a saving to be had, great, okay. But the biggest problem is they haven't got the people in the first place, okay. So, therefore, if you provide the person and they're not very good, you're going to lose that relationship very quickly and you're going to lose that customer very quickly. So, therefore, you need to lose that relationship very quickly and you're going to lose that customer very quickly. So, therefore, you need to make sure you're pricing your services properly, therefore, you pay your staff members properly, so you attract the better talent in India. Ok, and it's a win win on every level At some point.
Speaker 1:If you're not doing that, especially in professional services, we're not looking to get the cheapest, we're trying to get the best. We're trying to deliver quality and remember the end client, who is the client of the firm, wants that quality. They want their headaches taken away, and that's what accountancy firms do at the end of the day is try and eliminate headaches, not create more headaches. And I have to be honest, over the years, when I started off this game, I made that mistake. I was trying to do it cheaper and get the people in and all these types of things, and what it created was more headaches for me and it was just a mess. So I've learned from experiences that value yourself, value your charges, value your services, charges, value of services. People want them, but don't be and don't be afraid to charge what you think it should be. You should be charging in that respect. So right, let's move on to another kind of area.
Speaker 2:I did touch on it earlier. I would just go back to uh one point which you already built, but I just wanted to make it more concrete. Uh, you spoke about the AI, okay, and you spoke that you know whether there is worry for AI or not. Someone quoted very nicely that it's the people who know AI will replace the people who don't know AI. So that's where, with the changing technology and changing ways of interaction or integration with technology, there's more opportunity for Indians, because outside India, people are not as advanced as they should have been in adopting to technology. They might be developing technologies much better than us, but in terms of adoption, indians have an edge and we can learn faster.
Speaker 2:So I think there also lies the opportunity when it comes to fractional CFO services, preparing dashboards, being a smart accountant, as compared to earlier, where number of entries used to decide how much fee should be. But now, in terms of how many accounts can you handle, that decides how many accounts can be handled by one full-time equivalent person. Earlier it used to be number of entries, but you know how advanced you are which uh will decide how many accounts can you close in a month's time, and that is deciding your rate because if you are more advanced in using ai and zero technologies, you can do more number of accounts and that can increase your hourly rate as compared to someone who is doing manually. But he is very fast. She is very fast in, you know, processing the transactions, but they are not going to get as much as what a ai enabled person will be getting.
Speaker 2:So they're also indians, especially because we deal with a lot of complexities, we deal with a lot of amendments and changes in india, uh, we can better adopt to technology. So that is also one point which can be a value addition, which can be, uh, bringing more value for money for the client, because they have to keep less people, because they are ni unable, so they will have less headache to deal with less number of people and that way it can be a better solution for them. So they are paying less because the rates are lower in India. Secondly, they're paying for lesser staff, so that's also going to be an advantage.
Speaker 1:So I may just add on to this. I think, if I look at my firm, what we do every week, we have AI training for our team. It's only for 45 minutes. I think it's just the basics of AI, whether it's using things in chat, gpt, or whether it's using kind of the. There's certain tools within Xero and other things that are developing AI wise, and it's just understanding that, and I think it's so. Things like bookkeeping can be sped up with AI. If you use other tools that integrate with things like Xero, you can make AI for better as well.
Speaker 1:So I think, as you rightly said, it's the AI enabled accountant will be the success story of the future, and I think indian, as you said, are perfectly placed. Why? Because most of the people we hire are young. Okay, an indian workforce is a young workforce. Therefore, you've grown up with technology. You've grown up with whatsapp. You've grown up with all these types of things picking up very, very quickly. Okay, young people can pick up things much, much more quickly than someone old like myself. I just look at my son he's 19, and done, it's all done. I'm just sitting there thinking it takes time for me to do that. Maybe 20 years ago I was quite advanced, but as you get older it gets harder. But the young workforce is a huge advantage to use AI technologies and combine that with their financial knowledge.
Speaker 1:And I think a message to say to everybody, or anybody working in the accounting offshoring space in India, is keep skilling yourself up, get better, do better, because you skill yourself up, you'll get better opportunities. And if you're a firm owner, train your team, because if you train your team better in all the different technologies and things, they'll be in more demand and therefore your firm will attract the better clients and the better opportunities as well. So great point, hardy. Now one of the questions. We seem to look at the comments. There are lots and lots of questions coming through, but one in particular that seems to be overriding is how do you get your first client? How to get your first client? Harding, how did you get your first client?
Speaker 2:I think to some extent I answered that. First, the mindset should be correct that you should be very solution oriented. But once you have made your mind clear, you know come up with a target audience to whom you want to target because you understood the problem, you have a solution. So you understand what's the audience you want to speak to and there are various ways. You can have your first plan and I know 99 of the audience except for me and you are here to you know, listen to the answer of this question they know how to get the first plan. So I think we would take some time for you know explaining this. So there can be various approaches of acquiring a first client, but most commonly used is very time-taking, which is you building your profile, I would say, on LinkedIn, by you know coming up with really well articulated, you know posts of yours which shows that you understood the solution and you're pushing across on weekly basis, on bi-weekly basis, on linkedin and you are trying to subscribe to relevant groups and networks. So one of the network, I think, which arun has uh made arun would you know, I think later on highlight where he has created a community of accountants and, uh, you know, professionals who are interested in UK market.
Speaker 2:So you often go to such networking events. You go and present yourself, your ideas. So talk your idea Once you identify the problem and solution. Talk your idea on LinkedIn and other networking events. That can be one softer way of acquiring client. It can be as good as going to BNI.
Speaker 2:Bni is an international network. You go and speak over there. That hey, we, you know, help UK companies to incorporate and we help the UK companies in their basic accounting. We help the UK companies in their VAT filing and we have a team member with one or two years of experience of you know relevant industry and domain and you go across and pitch it. So maybe you know presenting yourself on social media and in the physical events where do you think you will get intentional clients? And coming up with the small solutions which you think will be helping those clients in incorporating company outside India in terms of helping them with the compliance, in terms of helping them in the managing their cash flow, doing that urine closures from India at a very less rate and a better quality, because that's what you have been providing to Indian clients. If suppose you are already practicing CE, you understand it much better. So that can be one of the ways of making your case with prospects. Yeah, okay, what do you think?
Speaker 1:Yeah, very, very valid points. I think the point is, you talked about LinkedIn and I think this all boils down to creating content. Okay, or quality content out there. That could be an article that could be content out there. That could be an article, that could be a video, that could be a webinar, like we're doing today.
Speaker 1:Um, but it's people, remember, we're in the game of trust. We're in the game of trust. People don't trust anyone sending them an email anymore. People don't trust them sending a dm anymore. Okay, on linkedin, who are you? If I get a dm from someone in india, I have no idea who you are. I don't know if you're a wonderful accountant and trustworthy or you're the biggest crook out there. I don't know. So why should I buy from you? I don't know. So it's important to build trust. How do you build trust? It takes time, okay, patience and time. It takes a lot of effort, okay.
Speaker 1:Therefore, that means, as Hardy mentioned, it could be article writing, it could be videos, it could be visiting or coming to shows here, it could be going to BNI, it could be other networking opportunities. But we're not, as I said, right, if you remember what I said earlier, we're not trying to sell mangoes at the cheapest price. We're not trying to sell bananas or gala at the cheapest price. We're trying to sell professional services and professional people buy professional services from people they trust. Okay, and if you do something to damage that trust or that potential trust, people will like well, I'm not interested. Now you might get lucky with a cold email or a cold call. Okay, you might get lucky. You might strike someone at the right time when they're they've lost their offshoring or team member. Then you know what. Let's do it, but the the likelihood is slim, okay. Um, and if you take a client that down that route, if you get a client that way, they're usually looking, they're usually going to compete on cost or I I can get it for £100 cheaper or £1,000 cheaper or whatever it may be. And you don't want that type of client. You want that client who's going to build that relationship and who's going to value you. Because if they value you, then you can charge proper fees. You can then pay your staff properly, you can get a proper margin. Pay your staff properly, you can get a proper margin, okay. So I think the idea of spamming people, emails, dms and stuff it's called cold calling is completely wrong build the relationship.
Speaker 1:So now, how do you do that, um, in terms of content? Well, we, we would um the way I, the way I do it, okay, and and it takes time. I don't get clients hundreds of clients every week, certainly not. I get a few clients every month, every few months. But you want quality, so I build, do videos, I do stuff on LinkedIn, I do YouTube.
Speaker 1:I'm building a community. I'll share some details with you later, at the end of this call. I'm building a WhatsApp community to share details. I write a newsletter. Now can I do it all myself? No, I can't.
Speaker 1:It might have my name on it, but I have a team. Okay, I have a team of marketing people, video editing people, seo people. I have a team and some of that team are in India. Okay, not all, some of the team here are in the UK as well, of the team here in the UK as well, but the team in India do a great job. The team in the UK do a great job.
Speaker 1:So you have the advantage that you can hire people again in India in the marketing angle to help you solve these problems. And if you just look online, there's some great things you see on LinkedIn from Indian um not necessarily accountants, but people in the financial service sectors and doing wonderful things on Instagram or LinkedIn and that type of thing. You can just learn from them and see how they do it in their little domain, copy them or learn from them. So I think there's so much. There's so many important things to learn about content generation and that may be something that I know, as Indian CAs, you may not have done before or you might be hesitant to do, but if you're going to attract international clients, you have to start and you have to put your. Take that first step. And the first email you write or the first article you write or the first video you write may not be great, doesn't matter, doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, but take that first step, definitely take that first step. Any thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:Yes, definitely In one sentence. You have to expose yourself. If you expose yourself, then people would come to know. If you are hiding yourself somewhere in cocoon, you'll never be able to come out as a butterfly course. You will have to break the cocoon, come out of it, present your ideas, present your solution, and there are people in pain. Definitely they will look at your solution and they will reach out to you.
Speaker 2:So I have seen that in like three years of my entrepreneurship I haven't sent a single cold email for various activities such I do. Rather you present yourself, come up with a real solution, meet more people, meet right people, meet right audience, go with right approach and perspective and deal is yours. So that's one way exposing yourself and there are skills to you know apply. But I would rather put this answer in two ways. I think there are people who are currently working in corporates. They are also listening and they want to start their own outsourcing and they are your, your fan all. And second are people who are ca firms and they are having their existing practice and they want to start. So there are two different answers. First, I'll take the ca firm approach. Yeah, with the ca firm, if there are founders who are listening. The major uh initiative they would have to take is freeing themselves up. I don't know how they would have taken time today to listen to this you know uh stream, if they are listening to or if they're going to listen to the recording. It's very tough to take out time from business development for indian cas because they were taken of so much of uh you know work on their own, uh in their own plate and they have not been able to hire good people who can be a right solution taking the ownership of the work. Or they do not rely on their work or they have not been offering them good pace. I think first, if you want to start outsourcing is the owner himself or herself has to free themselves out of their current indian work because unless and until the founder himself or herself is not able to give time, no businesses can be developed. It's always the founder's vision which works. Definitely I have seen some ca firms where the founders couldn't free themselves but they could hire a chartered accountant or a semi-qualified ca who had that similar vision and they employed them. But definitely they're also they are spending some time to guide that person. Uh, you know so that they uh, they. They're developing what they actually wanted to develop. So maybe this is not something to do with.
Speaker 2:You know how will you acquire your first plan, but first you need to free yourself up and you have to find the problem which you want to solve, because that is something which a founder can only come up with, which it's very difficult, which is the most difficult task. If you have done that, you will get your first plan because you know how to do BD, how to understand the problem. You have the interpersonal skills to understand the other's problem, to console him or her and, you know, get the business. So that can be first for people who are employees of currently some corporation. They want to start their outsourcing. Uh, definitely, it's a difficult uh, you know area for you because you might not have done a business earlier. So there will be many skills apart from you executing your work you have to acquire, which is understanding the audience, understanding the problem solution, finding resources, managing finances. There are a lot many problems you are yet to solve. So for them, I think my advice will be first you should start working in a startup kind of outsourcing, where you will actually get to feel how the customers are required, how the customers are given their first two months of service, because that requires different mindset. When you are understanding the first, you know client onboarding and doing the first two months of service, because where the trust building comes into the role, uh, and then you know how you build your you know first team, then how do you grow them, how you manage the finances. So if you're working as an employee and you want to start your outsourcing, my advice will be easiest way to do will be join an outsourcing firm which is still establishing or which is in the process of being established. There you can get all the lessons.
Speaker 2:What do you think, arun?
Speaker 1:Great answers, harlech, great answers. I think the point you made about freeing yourself up is so common, okay, that you're so bogged down with the day-to-day work, okay, of doing the accounting work for clients you don't actually have the clarity of mind to actually have the vision. And you see that in so many businesses here and owner managed businesses of firms here in the UK as well, they want to grow but they're so bogged down dealing with clients day to day that they don't have the time. So several years back, ok, I freed myself up completely to say I'm not I read, I rarely talk to clients. If I do talk to clients, it's probably just a very small handful that I've known a long time and who've known me well. Otherwise it's dealt with. The team, whether it's my team here in the UK or even my team members in India deal with them directly. That's the only way you're actually going to be able to grow by freeing your time up, because then you have the vision and then you can really do the business development side of things. I think. So that's for CA firms, I think for employees, I like the idea that you should join a startup, which is a good idea, I think. But my view would be if you've been working in an outsourcing firm already, you'll have some ideas already as an entrepreneur. If I had to be a pure entrepreneur, I'd say well, you know what? You're only ever going to learn by actually doing it yourself. Okay, you can get some experience and knowledge from an outsourcing firm by working there in a startup environment, no doubt about it. But the only true reality will happen is actually when you start doing it, when you have to try and get that first client, when you have to try and pay the bills. Okay, you'll go out, all out.
Speaker 1:Now, the most important thing is not to panic and to act in desperation, to do things too cheaply or to kind of try and spam people to kingdom come. It's just trying to have a plan and, as Hardik mentioned, understand your audience, who you're trying to target, and develop that plan. Now, what you might do is develop this plan whilst you're working in a firm, and I remember when I started my accounting firm many, many years ago, I had plans afoot before I actually started. Before I started, I was working for elsewhere. So I think it's important to have a plan in place and then execute on it. But I think that's kind of my kind of take on it.
Speaker 1:I think it's possible, but the bottom line is, if you're the owner, you need to immerse yourself into this. Okay, it's not going to happen as a oh, it's going to a bit of extra income coming into my business. If it's just a bit of extra income coming into your firm or it, it's a pointless exercise. It's, as you, as you said, hardy. It's a startup and it needs commitment, it needs time, it needs effort and it also needs money. Okay, you need to be able to fund it properly. Okay, if you have to come over to, if you say, if you have to develop content, if you have to fly over to the uk or us, it all adds up. Okay, it all adds up money. Wise, so you need money to do that. Um, therefore, you're going to be serious about it, if you're going to do it. I hope that makes sense.
Speaker 2:So, right, um one one, one few few more points to add.
Speaker 2:A few days before uh there's one more channel, say the finance story had conducted one uh event on outsourcing, outsourcing and finance people, where Uday Ranpura, who is one of the readers at one of the outsourcing firm in Andhawad he mentioned it very nicely that if you want to develop your own outsourcing, first you will have to step out.
Speaker 2:You have to step out to that country, you have to travel and you will travel. You will understand the people, you will understand their methodology, their mindset, and that will travel. You will understand the people, you will understand their methodology, their mindset, and that will also help you get opportunities to meet the right set of audience and give an opportunity to understand them better. So, arun, as you rightly added that you know you have to go outside India, travel, attend some relevant events, which is where you will do your first pitching and you will fail because you couldn't understand the person and the person will come up with their first feedback, which is where you will have your learnings. So slow way of moving will always be, you know, travel to that country definitely I've given a great example.
Speaker 1:I was an event in florida a couple of months back and prior to going to florida, I spoke to an Indian CA I won't mention his name, a young guy based out of Delhi, and he was talking to me and saying, well, should I go to this event? He'd never been out of India. And I said, yeah, maybe you should go to the event, go and see it, maybe see this event. Anyway, I arrive in Florida, at this event in Orlando called Scaling New Heights, and one of the first people I see is this young guy accountant and he says and I said I recognize him. I thought, hold on a minute. He's that guy I spoke to on a video call just maybe a week ago, and what he'd done. He's only like 25, 26. He'd flown from Delhi, he'd managed to get a visa, he'd flown from Delhi and he was in Orlando talking to US accountants, just understanding the market. Ok, and I thought you know good for him. He was trying, ok, he was.
Speaker 1:Now, whether he got clients or not, I don't know, maybe he did, maybe he got nothing out of it, but it's about understanding the people. Remember, this is a people, business, people and, as I said right at the outset, it's a trust business. People aren't going to buy from strangers. They're going to buy from people that they've met once at least or got to know, and you've developed and facilitated a relationship with them. Now that, I think, is so, so important. To get out and come to the country Now you don't like. In the UK there are accounting events. You don't necessarily need to have a big stand and spend lots of money no, no, I think. I think that's probably not a useful exercise for you but certainly come around and come to these events and talk to people and understand the dynamics of the market. That way you'll build a profile up. You'll understand where are the gaps.
Speaker 2:The more people you talk to, the more conversations you'll have or identify where are the biggest problems and where then you can solve those, how you can solve those problems, okay, so very, very, very important so right so why we uh discussed about, you know, freeing themselves off, uh making bandwidth, why we are advising them to travel to outside india, why we are requesting them to attend the events, advising them to travel to outside India, why we are requesting them to attend the events. One of the reasons which I have seen working out really successfully is the on-site firms or UK-based firm, for an example. They look for how invested is the outsourcing firm into this business. So if they see there's a local CA firm but they're highly invested into this, they've got some right resources on the plate, they've got right mindset to free themselves up, travel to this country and meet right people. That creates a really great impression in their mind that the other person is also as invested as I would in case I get associated with them. And they have a full proof plan of you know who will be reviewing the work, who are going to execute the work, how are they going to ensure the proper quality, whether they understand my pains or not. So if they understand that you are equally invested, then it, you know, gets entertained.
Speaker 2:Just to answer to few of the questions where people have said that I'm not a ca, I'm not a cca, can I get the walk. Then someone has asked if I try to reach out from india by telecalling, will people give me walk? So if, through those calls and and through those cold emails, if you think you can show that you are well invested, then they would answer. But it's that there are very less chances that people answer to calls and emails and they would get a. It's that there are very less chances that people answer to calls and emails and they would get a feeling that you are invested. Unless your email says we are india's largest outsourcing firms, definitely they will reply back, even if it is cold email. So you have to position yourself and if you are freshly starting, uh, the finest way is, uh, you know what we just discussed. You know, going to that country, attending right events, meeting right people. But I have two solutions one where you have to invest yourself, where you do not have to invest too much. So can I share that secret? Absolutely, absolutely so.
Speaker 2:For the ca firms which are mid-sized or established, they already have got a lot of clients and references, as I would have mentioned in my earlier YouTube video. Also, you will have to list down all your clients and you have to find out which one of those clients is a kind of a multinational company and I can saw to some extent to any of their multinational work they might have some small subsidiary in Netherlands. To any of their multinational work, they might have some small subsidiary in netherlands. They might have some small associate or netherland, you know, a subsidiary based out of some developed countries. Can I do at least simple bookkeeping in quickbook or zero for the client so that can be your first breakthrough.
Speaker 2:Or, if you feel, your indian company which is doing a really great export from india, can I pitch them that? Hey, I can help you with establishing or incorporating a company in UK and I can look after the compliance. So it will be good for you that you only have to deal with one accountant for their compliances and accounting across the world. Definitely if it is a small size you can deal it because it's very easy to incorporate companies outside India. It's very easy to comply. Also, there are software which you know does the auto filing. You just review the wall. So there are very less risk in terms of compliances.
Speaker 2:Of course you will have to do your research. You might have to employ one right staff also depending on how many clients you think from india you can get for outside ind. So I'm in touch with few Mumbai based firms, few Delhi based firms whom I got an opportunity to mentor. They've developed their whole of outsourcing from the Indian clients because their clients which is present in US, uk, brazil, singapore and they've been serving them from India. So client is very happy because they have just one point of contact the Indian partner. They have very less money to pay as compared to someone billing them in pound for even establishing a company compliances in UK. Uk accountants charge not less than 10 lakhs or 10,000 pound. So if one Indian CA is getting it done for two to five lakhs, indian clients are very cost conscious and that's where you can have your first few clients and you can get a feel of outsourcing where you have owner also in India. The companies are outside India and you get to deal with. Or third way can be you have India based client for which you are doing risk advisory so you can do their audit audit but the company has subsidiaries outside india. There are accountants, which me, our own. You know many people who are working in in a business of helping you to grow your outsourcing. We would be happy to you know, connect you with right people outside india wherein you can put a condition that, hey, I can refer you this work of attestation and not non-attestation. But I have been dealing with this client for long and would you mind if I execute it from india and you, uh, you know, get, say, 50 or 60 percent of the revenue. 40 percent revenue I get to keep because I will be executing the engagement from start to end. Definitely you can review the work. So that kind of ocean of opportunities are there where we can connect you with right accountants in uk and other countries.
Speaker 2:If you have got established client in india and you feel that you can execute their uk, us or developed countries work from india and you can refer those clients the accountants would be happy to consider because you are not going to take some business but you are going to give them some business. So if you have such clients, you can make a list of it, you can find out which has subsidiaries outside india. You can connect with us, we can connect you with you know a right accountant with similar kind of mindset and they will be ready to share the work so you can have your first outsourcing engagement from your existing indian clients. I have a kochi based uh, you know, a ca firm.
Speaker 2:Uh, I will not be able to name it, but they have got presence in 18 countries from their existing clients. Uh, they are motivated or encourage their indian clients to open marketing offices, to open representative offices in those countries, which doesn't cost too much, and they've been handling the compliances of outside India from India for their Indian clients. So that can be also one of the ways where they don't need to invest too much but rather stay invested in their existing client and provide overseas services. What do you think?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think your ideas are great and I think, using your base as India, that can support all these UK firms or UK businesses or US businesses with that and I think the term you know Warrenren buffet always says that, um, you build a moat, okay, um to, if you've got, if you and that's a distinct advantage you have in india the cost base is so much lower. Okay, therefore, that gives you an opportunity to undercut other people. Okay, not stupidly, but in a way that still makes it very, very viable and profitable for you, and I think that's where you you should use that to your advantage. Okay, but it's not a matter of going, as you said. Oh, it's not a matter of um shouting about spamming and emailing and cold calling, which isn't going to give you the business. Okay, it's about presenting yourself in a different way and solving the solution. As we said and I think this is a common theme we're seeing in this whole conversation we're having today is that identify the problem and come up with a new alternative solution to what they've got. And if it saves them money, it saves them time, it gives them less headache, people will be stupid not to take it and it's just a matter of just keep going, keep pursuing and keep trying, and eventually, and that and that and and, to do that.
Speaker 1:Keep you see, and keep trying. You have to do it through linkedin, through constant messaging, through content production, and eventually that trust comes and once that trust comes, the doors will. That trust comes, the doors will open, okay, and then you'll start getting the quality clients that you want. Okay, this isn't a six month exercise, this is a six year exercise. I have to say, okay, don't think it's going to happen in six months and you'll be very successful. You won't. Okay, it takes many, many years to do it. And patience is the most important thing. You need patience agreed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a few more things to add will be. In case you are and I'm addressing the third category if you are working in a big four or big five or a established or established accounting firm I'm sorry, uh then you can look around. Your existing company might be offloading few of the clients. Example if someone is director or manager from Big Four and they're listening to this interview or podcast, they want to soon start their own outsourcing, maybe three years, four years down the line. You can look around your existing employers are there any? Are there any companies outside india of the existing mnc with your auditing or doing a non-attestation services where you see they are offloading few of the clients they don't want to do because of the independence issue or the profitability?
Speaker 2:You can refer to your uh, you know existing ca practice. You know professionals whom you know with whom you want to soon start outsourcing. You can refer them, those clients, so that they, indirectly, you start building your own. I would say you know base. Simply putting, if you're working with an employer where you see there are some clients which are multinational, which is multinational presence, and your existing employer is offloading those clients because of the profitability issue or bandwidth issue or otherwise. You can refer them to your existing uh setup which you are soon going to join, because you are not going to, you know, directly get uh, you know, involved with them. You're just referring them, the client uh, without earning any commission because you're a long-term plan. So that way also you can indirectly build your own client base.
Speaker 2:You can help those uh you know indian firms to establish their outsourcing setup and you can also later on join those firms because you had referred some clients. So there are innovative hundreds of solution. If you know, if someone is uh really motivated or invested to start their outsourcing and they think they are invested and they are resourceful, then definitely we would love to catch up with you and, you know, explain. There are hundreds of ways. Arun is coming up with a lot of events uh, which I think he he mentioned uh when we were not live, so you can attend those events, which will be networking events where we can share more ideas which we might not be able to share it on the live podcast. So definitely it will help. So there are unlimited ways to grow your business. You should be invested, you should be solution-oriented, you should be resourceful.
Speaker 1:I think the point you make invested. I think that's so important. It's that commitment. Okay, if you've made that commitment, people feel it, people, clients see it or potential clients see it, and they see you posting every week or every second day on LinkedIn. They're seeing that. Ok, and that makes a massive difference. Ok, and it's not a matter of a hit or miss. It's that commitment. And once they see commitment, they'll say, ok, he's the guy I want to talk to or she's the lady I want to talk to. I might not be ready for outsourcing now or offshoring now, but maybe in 12 months I might be. And if you're still doing that stuff online and they see you 12 months down the line, they think you know what. I'm ready to pick up the phone and talk to them. Okay, and I think that's really really key. Now I know we've been going for almost an hour here, hardik, and I know um there's plenty of questions coming through as well.
Speaker 1:Um, one thing, that one interesting angle, which I thought was an interesting point that someone raised, is insolvency and restructuring domain. Okay, have you seen many people doing that offshoring wise? Because I haven't seen that as yet here in the uk, but I do think there's an. It's a. There is a gap in the market for that here. What? What's your view on that? As an example? How do you?
Speaker 2:definitely, uh, I, I have a close friend of mine from rajasthan. They were jaipur based 18 people. If, as far as I know, six months back, they were 18 people, definitely they would have grown. Uh, they saw dubaibased or UAE-based one CPA firm and they helped them with a lot of reports generation, a lot of data analysis in terms of insolvency, in terms of credit analysis. So opportunities are there for all the areas of your expertise. If you are VAT expert, in India, there is UAE VAT, which is almost alike much simpler If you are an income tax professional.
Speaker 2:there are income tax. You know representative tax filing requirements outside India. You just have to learn those. You know taxes and you can do it If you are a project finance professional. So Arun has been, I think, promoting all the companies to come up with finance solutions for outside India companies. If you know how to do project finance well, you can also sell outside India companies into financing through foreign banks. Examples are unlimited. You should be an expert of your area and you should know the foreign problem, not just the Indian problem, and you can do it, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, we're going to just kind of start wrapping up here, hardik, because I know it's going for an hour now and I know you've got a busy day probably ahead of you and I know everyone's got the Independence Day celebrations coming up tomorrow, which I hope everyone has a wonderful time. But I suppose a couple of last things to highlight. Um is, I had a few questions. Where have they gone? Um, if you had to, um, look at other markets. There are other people in the offshoring space, other countries, people like the philippines and, um, you name it bang, bangladesh, pakistan, you name it all over the place, really, mexico, all these places. What makes India stand out? What makes it in your mind, having worked in this industry and talking to many clients all across the world, what makes it different?
Speaker 2:Recently, as you would know, there were protests in UK and there were, you know, were all the immigrants being targeted. I don't want to comment anything on anything else but what I could feel that Indians are respected even though they were targeting immigrants, but Indians were by far, I would say, exempted, or whatever the case may be. Just an example. But apart from that, on the capabilities and on the skill set, adaptabilities, I think Indians are far better and more trustworthy as compared to the other countries, because we deal with more complexities than any other. You know countries and as you know what's going on in Bangladesh. The outsourcing, the onsite, ca firms would like to associate with an environment which is more stable, which is democracy and where the people have shown their trust and reliability for decades and centuries. So I think, with the capabilities and skills that we have, indians are far better in adapting to things, in understanding the problem, coming up with innovative jugaad solutions.
Speaker 1:So that, I think, will have put upper hand for us. Okay, well, I think it's been a fascinating hour with you, hardik, okay, hearing your thoughts, me sharing some of my views. Okay, well, I think it's been a fascinating hour with you, hardik, okay, hearing your thoughts, me sharing some of my views. Before we wrap up, I'm just going to share a few things I want people to you can sign up to, okay, at your own leisure. These are all totally free. I'll share them in the comments box. Hopefully you can get this. One of the things we've started up is it's's just literally brand new. I'll be honest with you. It's a it's a community, or based on schoolcom, and we'll be sharing um information, videos, um, all about how to build an accounting firm. There'll be certain elements for indians and if you, if you look on there now I I'll send this link now Make sure you sign up to that. It's free to join. We'll be doing a lot on the community. I think the whole point is to build a community where we can share ideas and experiences, and it will be free. Okay, that's what I want you to do. There's a course on there on how to build a good website for your accounting firm. There's a course on there how to get clients. I know a lot of the questions people are asking you for is how do I get international clients? So make sure, um, you do that. Um, there's a course on there to um understand the cultural differences and that's something we haven't really touched on in great detail today. It's probably for that's a whole webinar in itself, a separate webinar. I think hardy understanding the soft skills and cultural side of things. That's so important.
Speaker 1:One of the other things we've kicking off here at samara also is a whatsapp group, like a whatsapp whatsapp community. Okay, um, again, that's in the link there. Hopefully you'll be able to do that, sign up. So, again, there's different communities, sub communities, but one of those communities is all about how to market, how to get customers, and it's all free to join, okay, well, I'm going to be sharing a lot of my experience and knowledge on the school community, on the whatsapp community. Um, free to join, please do share, please do um, get something out of it. And then one, one other thing if you haven't already now I will do. I will get everyone who's signed up via the system. But if you haven't already, check out our newsletter, okay, again, it's free, okay, um, and this is the type of content you should be creating.
Speaker 1:Okay, on the newsletter, it's consistent. We're writing new information, we're providing ideas. Now am I expecting to get a client every week from it? No, I'm not. I'm building that trust, building that trust, so make sure you sign up to the newsletter as well. There's plenty out there to consider. And for anyone who signed up via email to this call, I will share all the details and the link to you later. Anyway, way, okay, but hardik, in summary, today, three, three. What are the teeth? Two, three key points that you want to get across to to all, the all our viewers and watchers today. What do you think you should, what you want to impart to them, to, to everyone?
Speaker 2:summarize meet right people, pitch right things and develop a right team will get you the offshoring established of your own correct. But before I think we wrap up, you are doing great stuff. I don't know if I'll get opportunity to you know, say anything, but you, you are in uk. You have your own really successful outsourcing setup of your own. I got a chance to meet you, you know, twice or thrice, virtually and physically. You're doing great stuff, I think I I don't see there is a single uh, you know, on-site accounting firm which is also having an offshoring, doing these kind of things.
Speaker 2:Uh, just to you know, help more people get into uh, you know, this opportunity. So I got this platform. I'm really thankful whatever contribution I could make to your uh initiatives which you are taking numbers of them. So, guys, I would also say just go through with this website. The kind of emails you will get will be really, really useful to you. They are not cold emails you will get, but you will get ideas they do through what kind of emails. Even if you are sharing newsletters, uh, you can, you know, get attention and, uh, you know, get right information which will be useful to you or to your thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, hardik, I appreciate it, much, appreciate. I really love your uh participation and your experience speaks volumes. You, we can see, we can all see, that you've been doing this a long time and and I think one of the reasons why I've I'm got into this space is I want to. Um, as I said at the outset, the market is vast, the market is huge. I can't have everything. I don't want everything. Everyone should benefit from this Because if everyone benefits, the market reputation improves, the market rises and then more and more people get, and then our slice of the pie gets bigger each. So I think that's a really important thing.
Speaker 1:So, in summary, today, I think, following what hardik said, my, my view is if you're serious about doing it, you've got to commit to it. Okay, it's going to take some time. Um, you've got to develop the good content, develop your own strategy, understand your audience. But it takes time. Be patient, okay, be very patient, but keep going. But, in summary, if hard, it can do it. If I can do it, so can you all? Right, that's what I feel.
Speaker 1:Um, there, please do reach out to me on linkedin. Please do um sign up to the newsletter, join the different communities that I've sent across um. I will be sharing details of further events and things on the various channels over the next few weeks. It's an exciting time to be in india, to be in accounting, to be in finance. You may not have it crystal clear in your mind which way to go and how to do it, but that will emerge and through that frustration and through that kind of challenge you'll only get bigger and better and stronger. Thank you very much everyone today. Thanks so much for your time. I hope you enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Um hardik, last comments from yourself thank you, I think I would just repeat if we can do, you can also do better than us.
Speaker 1:Perfect, absolutely, absolutely. Go for it, guys. Go for it. Um, goodbye everyone, and, uh, we'll see you soon. Thank you all, right, cheers, thank you all, thank you.