Formed by Beauty, Truth, and Goodness: Dr. Toyin Atolagbe on Classical Education | The Furrows

Dr. Toyin Atolagbe shares how her early education in Nigeria, marked by daily hymns, strict discipline, and a focus on shaping both heart and intellect, formed the habits and virtues that guide her work today. She discusses the power of classical education to instill excellence, the crucial role of parents as first educators, and her current work supporting families through Lighthouse Parenting Hub.

What's in This Episode:

• How Dr. Atolagbe's elementary education in Nigeria shaped her character through daily assemblies, hymns, literature, and high moral standards
• The formation of lifelong habits of excellence, discipline, and virtue through classical-style education
• The importance of beauty, truth, and goodness in shaping young minds and hearts
• Technology's impact on children and the need for parents to set clear boundaries
• Supporting parents through coaching, training, and resources at Lighthouse Parenting Hub

Chapters:

• 00:00: Introduction and welcome
• 01:15: Growing up in Nigerian schools—classical education in practice
• 07:14: Formative experiences—songs of praise, cultural groups, and leadership
• 14:32: The role of discipline and high standards in character formation
• 28:45: Teaching in classical schools and forming student virtue
• 42:18: Parenting philosophy: setting boundaries while supporting growth
• 54:26: Technology use and building discipline in children
• 01:03:02: Lighthouse Parenting Hub: coaching and resources for families
• 01:08:19: Closing thoughts

Resources Mentioned:

• Lighthouse Parenting Hub
• Arcadia Education
• Classical Learning Test

Hosted by Ryan Klopak (Arcadia Education) and Alex Julian (CLT). The Furrows podcast features leaders in classical education who have been transformed by classical education.

Produced by Saint Kolbe Studios

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome, listeners, to another episode of the Firms Podcast, where we talk with classical educators who have been transformed by classical education and are now transforming others. I'm Alex Julian, the director of classical baccalaureate at the CLT. Ryan Klopak is not with us today. He's not feeling well, but we hope he feels better soon. Today we have Toyan Attalagwe, Dr. Atalagve with us. I met uh Toyen when I was uh running a prep uh classical school and got to work with Dr. Atalagve when she was running the Archway side, which is the K5, and that was a really good time.

SPEAKER_05 0:51

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

So thank you. Welcome uh to the Firos Podcast for being with us today.

SPEAKER_05 0:56

Thank you. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah, I'd I'd love to start with with kind of our usual question, which is um, who was little Toyen growing up, you know, especially as a student? Uh, because we're we're trying to we're trying to talk about uh transformation and it's helpful to know, you know, did you start in a classical school? Um, but yeah, I'll just start with that. Who was little toyen as a student?

SPEAKER_05 1:24

Oh my goodness. Little Toyne was very energetic and full of life. I went to a classical Christian school. It wasn't called a classical Christian school, right? It was an international I started at an international school and then I moved to a Catholic school, St. Bernadette Nursry and Primary School. So I started my education at Niger Pre-Age International School, and then I went to St. Benedict Nursory and Primary School. Both schools, one thing that I remember vividly was they were very concerned about shaping the hearts. Education, of course, the mind, the intellect was there, but the heart was was a big thing. Our headmistresses, as we called them, we didn't I didn't have a male leader at any point in my elementary school. So our female principals were called headmistresses, and if it were a male, they would be called headmaster. So in high school I had a headmaster, but in in elementary school, it was a headmistress. We had assemblies every day, and during assemblies, they will look at your socks, is it clean? They will look at your nails, is it too long or too short? Your uniform, is it ironed? That was the kind of school I went to. Wow, it was very strict, very high moral standards. And they just wanted us to be good people who had knowledge but also had a good heart. And so one of the things I remember vividly about school is that we encountered beauty in so many ways. You know, we did art, we did music, we had a cultural group, we had a choral group, we sang, we danced, we performed. So they gave us many opportunities to encounter beauty, but to also discern truth, right? Through everything we learned. We learned about math, science, history, geography, English language arts. We read literature from all over the world, and we read literature from our own home country. Literature was a huge part of our schooling. We recited poetry, we had drama classes right from elementary school, where we acted at different plays, both local plays, Shakespeare. And so we were we we were taught to discern truth, but we also were encouraged to practice good. Our school leaders cared about us being good people, and so when you made poor choices, oh, there were serious consequences, and consequences could go from getting a good lashing from the headmistress, sometimes even your own teacher. And so there was discipline. You couldn't come late to school. How dare you come late to school? Yeah, and you couldn't miss school for any reason, you know, and so that was what shaped my mind and my heart as a child. And so we developed virtue in school. And so when people ask me questions, Twain, why are you so committed? What that's I mean, those are habits I formed right from when I was in elementary school, and it's followed me all the way. I was just doing a quick tour of the Lehman Academy School in Mesa, and I pointed the word habit to the principal. I said, You see this word? It's one that you should take seriously, not just something that is pasted on your school walls. These kids have to, you have to instill in them habits of excellence because that's what will travel with them for the rest of their lives. There are so many things I do right now, and I don't have to make effort to do it. It's just a natural part of my life, you know. Either not giving up on trying, not giving up easily, getting to work early, showing up every day, it's all just natural instincts for me.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

And that you would attribute to that school interest.

SPEAKER_05 5:54

Just respecting people, going back to say, you know what, if if I did something that upset you yesterday, I'm sorry. That was those were all things that school helped and home.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Interesting. And where was the school at?

SPEAKER_05 6:07

It was in Nigeria, Lagos, southern part of Nigeria. Lagos. And the school is still around, at least St. Bernadette Nursry and Primary School is still very much alive and well in Nigeria right now. And the founder of the school is still alive because I was just looking into it. I went home this summer and I wanted to visit, but I couldn't make it.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:30

I was gonna pay them a surprise visit, but I couldn't make it. My prayer is that God still keeps her because she knew me very well. I would, like I said, I was very energetic. I was in school plays, I led cultural dances. So I know she knows me, and yeah, I just wanted to give back to the school, but I couldn't make it there, sadly.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Oh, that'd be neat.

SPEAKER_05 6:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

What um what were some highlights for you in elementary school? Were there certain teachers or certain programs? You know, it sounds like you were energetic and enjoyed most of it.

SPEAKER_05 7:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Uh didn't need to get a lot of lashings from your headmistress. But but uh yeah, I'm just curious, what were some really formative experiences for you?

SPEAKER_05 7:14

For me, I really loved the fact that our day started with Songs of Praise. It's a book. I actually just ordered one on Amazon. It's called Songs of Praise. We sang hymns a lot, nice, you know, and that really became a huge part of me because I'm always singing. I wake up singing, right? And it's mostly those hymns that I learned from school. You know, I'll sing trust and obey, for there's no other way, right? I'll sing forth in thy name, oh Lord, I go my daily labor to pursue. Like these things just become a huge part. It's they are like it's it's all I always I I told my mom once that it's like paving your path with gold. That you wake up every day and it's just there as something to fall back on during those hard times. And so singing in school during the assembly was something I love. You dare not come to school without your songs of praise. We all had it in our backpacks, right? And during assembly, the lead, whoever is leading, will say, open your hymns to page, you know, and at the end of the day, we sang from our songs of praise too, right? We sang different songs to connote that the day is over. And one of it, one of my favorite was um that we sang was now the day is over, night is drawing nigh, shadows of the evening still across the sky. Glory to the Father, glory to the Son. And these things, it's just a reminder that you can't take any day for granted. Yeah, at the end of every day, you have to give God thanks. And we did that at the end of the day at school, every day. So singing was a huge part of school. Being a part of a cultural group, I didn't dance that much, but I beat the drums. Um, at some point, the leader of our cultural group had become prideful, according to the headmistress, and she stopped her from leading. And I remember I was in about third grade then, and they said they needed a new leader for the dance group. And I remember raising my hand and everybody laughed. Like, I mean, we have fourth graders, fifth graders, sixth. What are you? Why are you raising your hands, Tony? And I said, I want to audition. And I auditioned and I was chosen. And so as early as third grade, I was able to lead the cultural group for my elementary school. But in high school, I didn't dance. I played more of the drums in high school because our music teacher just wanted me on the drums. So singing and the musical aspect of classical education was something that stood out for me. The other thing I loved about schooling was debate, uh debate club. We traveled from school, different schools, just debating other schools. And some days we brought back the trophy, and some days we did not win. So we learned to fail, we learned to win. We had, I mean, we engaged in a lot of sporting activities against schools in high school. We had like huge musical festival contests that we would drive hours, and we were in the boarding house in high school. We'll drive hours to another school to go compete with them. And so you you developed a lot of life skills along the way, and your parents are just at home, they don't even know you are in the northern part of the country competing, they just trust the school to take care of you. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

That's neat. I I feel like most schools don't put the proper emphasis on things like song or think about opening the day with song. I mean, sure, uh a lot of schools, especially Christian schools, they do open with prayer, but specifically singing. Singing, yeah, and starting the day with that.

SPEAKER_05 11:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Um, and it seems like that was hugely formative for you.

SPEAKER_05 11:14

It was. Even before lunch, we sang. Everything was, I mean, we had different songs. I mean, before lunch we will sing things like some have food but cannot eat, some can eat but have no food. We have food and we can eat. Glory be to you, O Lord. Amen. Wow. And till today, every time I pick up a spoon or a fork or my knife to eat, it's always in my head that some have food they can't eat. But some can eat, they have no food. You know, and sometimes I'll say that as a prayer quickly before I eat my food. But it all started when I was in school.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Oh, that's wonderful.

unknown 11:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Um, were there specific teachers in your you know, and uh I'm sure parents are part of this too, but yeah, who were kind of your formative teachers early on?

SPEAKER_05 12:09

Coincidentally, I had the same teacher from kindergarten. He was my teacher in kindergarten. Then I was told I was a gifted child. I skipped first grade, and then they had just moved him to second grade. Mr. Adu, he's from Ghana, and so Mr. Adu taught me in kindergarten. Coincidentally, he was going to teach second grade when I was when I got a double promotion to second grade, and then I left Ninja Pre-Age International School to St. Bernadette, and the first day of school in third grade, we found out that he had just moved from that school to St. Bernadette's, and he was my third grade teacher.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05 12:56

So I had him in like three, four years, and he moved with us to fourth grade. So that's some weird. I mean, if there's anybody I want to meet in my lifetime, Mr. Adu. He was a huge part of my formation. And I think one of the things I value most about him is that he helped me discover who I am. And when I said anything negative, he's like, nope, that's not who you are. You are XYZ. You're confident, you have what it takes, you have resilience, Twain. You just need to put in a little bit more effort, you know? And he would tell me things like, Twain, the problem you have is that you talk more than you listen. I need you to listen more than you talk, you know? And I heard that from him every time, and he helped me develop listening skills. And that affected my ability. It impacted my ability to be attentive to people. He would always say, Twain, how about you listen first? Let's listen. You know, because I had a tendency at that time to just talk, talk, talk, talk. And it's like, no, listen. And so he taught me how to listen to people. Um, he also he once told me, he said, Twain, you are one of those students that I know that you will do great things and that whatever you lay your hands on will prosper. He would always tell me that there's a special anointing upon you. I don't know what that means. At that time, I didn't know what it meant. But he said that God created you in his best of moods, he would say to me, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Nice thing to say to a kid, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:42

Yeah. And so I just grew up feeling that I was very special. Like nobody can convince me that I am not special. You know, I yeah, that that was helpful to know. And coincidentally, my parents mimicked the same thing. My dad was also like that. My dad felt that way about me, you know. And I'll say, my it's so funny. My children say everybody, like my children, my husband, they all say the same thing. I don't know what it is, but my teacher would always tell me that.

SPEAKER_04 15:13

That's great.

SPEAKER_05 15:14

Yeah. I represented my class in a lot of things, you know. Sometimes the school would have visitors come in and they will ask Mr. Adu for someone to give a speech, an impromptu speech. He would always send me, Toyne, you go speak on behalf of the class. You know, so I represented my class in a lot of competitions, and so he helped me find my voice and he kept me out there. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

What kind of looking back now, what's that right mix of you know, praising the individual as someone that is unique and special, yeah, you know, but also holding them to a standard because in American education there's a lot of like cheap praise of like, oh, you're you're all very special, do whatever you want, but it's not necessarily this seeing of the individual. It seems like like he really saw you.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Um yeah. So what what's the is is it just that? Is it that you know it wasn't just blanket praise of oh everybody's special, but that he could see who you were.

SPEAKER_05 16:26

I I mean, it's it's interesting that the same man that saw all the strengths, he also saw the weaknesses, like I shared earlier on. You know, there was a certain time during my elementary school years that pride had set in for me as a vice. And I remember him asking my parents to come and see him, and and I was there, I was a part of the meeting. He said, you know, Mr. and Mrs. O'Show, you know how much I love your daughter, but I'm getting worried that something is getting into her head as she gets older. And Mr. Adu said, it's I'm just gonna call it what it is, it's pride. And my dad looked at me and said, Twin, you've become prideful. And I said, No. And Mr. Adu looks at me and says, Oh, you lie now, too. So it wasn't just him praising me. There were moments of reality where he told me the truth. So he was just honest with me. He was just honest with me, and I remember my dad from that point until I left my home as an adult, teaching me humility had become something that was uppermost in my father's heart. And I really, I really want to celebrate my dad because he went above and beyond, and my mom too. But my dad was the one that made a big deal about pride. My dad would say, Toin, I really do want you to have self-pride. And I think what he meant by self-pride is magnanimity that Aristotle talks about. That Toin, I want you to know you are worthy of doing great things. Right. I want you to be able to affirm your own dignity and have an elevated vision of yourself. But I also want you to be humble, I want you to see people, I want you to honor people even before you honor yourself. And so he helped me see that difference. My dad said, Yes, I want you to have self-pride. So, but that confused me even more. Like, dad, I don't know what you want from me. You know, he would always say self-pride, self-pride. But now I look back and I'm like, poor guy, he meant magnanimity, right? Because pride can also be a good thing, right? But but my dad, my dad said, Toyne, when you do things for people, don't wait for them to say thank you. Why should they say thank you to you? Just do it for the sake of good. And so I went from that child that they were all worried about being prideful to someone that my husband now complains. You're too humble. That's one thing. My husband would say, Toyne, that's one thing I don't like about you. You're too humble. Take the glory for something. And I'm like, okay, you have no idea how much my father wanted me to be humble. What age was that when so third grade would be about eight years old.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

And that's when he pulled your own.

SPEAKER_05 19:30

That was when he pulled with my parents, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Wow. Were there any um were there any subjects or books? Let me back up for a second. It's been interesting having these conversations with so many people because we kind of say honing in on what was the center of the universe for you when you were at school? And so for some people they say, oh, it was my friend group, some people, oh, it was my teacher, and then next year I you know, everyone knew you're gonna get this teacher. Some people it was books. You know, what was kind of the center of your universe in elementary school?

SPEAKER_05 20:09

Oh, it was it was drama class for me. Getting to be a part of the drama, yeah. Yeah, you know, when you audition for a role and you're taken and you get to present in the school's play, that was huge for me.

SPEAKER_04 20:23

I bet.

SPEAKER_05 20:23

Yeah. Memorizing my lines, being able to just get those words out, just through memory was huge for me. And I had I did have a really good memory at that time, and so I would say that was the most important thing. Being a part of the cultural dance group was huge. I remember there was a time that the archbishop of Nigeria had visited my school, and I was the one who led. And our songs involved us, including his name, you know, getting him involved in the dance. And I remember the headmistress looking at me at the end of the whole presentation and saying, Oh my goodness, the archbishop said, Who is that girl? Nice, she's so confident. So, I mean, that was the center of my world, right? The dance, being a part of the dance group, literature class, I loved literature class, drama.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:22

So I've kind of been mostly in the humanities for a long time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

So arts and then kind of stories of people.

SPEAKER_05 21:30

Stories of people, yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

And um in the culture of your school, was that common? You know, I I feel like uh just really prevalent in especially in the last 30, 40 years in the US, it's like people are so um insecure about singing and performing and getting on stage and you know, and kids less so, but still there's that. Um it's just not in the culture the way it used to be. I mean, in the 50s, you look and it's like the football player did choir and he had no problem singing on stage, and now everybody's just so insecure about it.

SPEAKER_05 22:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:14

It's you you and it goes back to leadership, you know. You know, the Bible says, I think in romance, that do not conform to the patterns of this world. But by renewing your mind, right, you can test and see what's what's pleasing to God. When I was on the charter school side, I always wondered why during concerts kids read from the script. It bothered me a lot. I did not like it. But I couldn't change it because that was the culture before I came. Now, when we moved to Crystal's, I remember the moment I hired our music teacher, that was one of the things I said to her. I said, My dream is to have a school where kids feel confident, they lift up their head, they engage with the crowd, and they present without script. And our music teacher, Miss Hendrix, said, That's what I do. I love that too. And that's the culture at Crystals. Our kids don't read from a paper.

SPEAKER_04 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:15

They memorize their lines because that's that's the grammar stage. Right. That's where they're at. They can do it. But we need to build that culture of trust and encouragement and empowerment that you're worthy of great things and greater things. And yeah, that's that's the culture we've created at Crystal's.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

I really like that. I think giving kids that experience early to be in front of people, to speak, to have a voice, to be heard, and then it to be all okay in the end, in fact, praiseworthy. That's right. Um there's just so much more confidence in them then by the time they get to those really uh insecure ages. Yeah, like middle school.

SPEAKER_05 24:01

Yeah. And and when I when I when my daughter, when when I had my daughter at RT, then that was starting in kinder, you know, when I noticed that was missing. I told my husband. That was a charter school.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Whereas Christos is private. It's private, yes.

SPEAKER_05 24:17

I told my husband, I said, something is missing. Drama. And so every summer we would put her at Studio 3, it's very classical. They they did most of their plays were classics, and I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

Nice.

SPEAKER_05 24:32

So every summer she went to theater art school. And so people look at Tomy now and they're like, Oh my goodness, I just had a friend who left this weekend and she's like, Twin, she's so confident. And I said, Yeah, she's been in theater school her entire summers through elementary school. She stopped just before, like seventh grade in middle school, was when she stopped doing that. So she's used to being in front of a crowd, she's used to, I mean, crunching lines, she would memorize lines. And she told me, she said, Mom, you know, I miss those days. And I said, It's okay, it's in you. You know, she's very confident. When we had our Christmas party at my sister-in-law's house, they were doing karaoke, they were calling the young ones to come and sing. Nobody showed up. She showed up, she picked up the mic. She funnily she sang a Nigerian song.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

Whoa.

SPEAKER_05 25:22

And all the parents were like, What? Confidence, she was very calm and like, oh my goodness, she just blew it out of. But you have to be intentional about helping them form those habits when they're much younger.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Yeah, because like you said, no one showed up, none of the little kids went up for karaoke. Yeah, nobody else, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:42

She was the only but because we kind of we had exposed her to that.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

That's great. Now I want to put all my kids in drama this summer.

SPEAKER_05 25:49

It's I'm telling you, it's worth it. Yeah I really she really, really loved it.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

And and it it's come full circle too, because you said for you that was an experience.

SPEAKER_05 25:58

That was an experience, yeah. And because her school was not offering it at that level, I looked for a place where she could get it. And Studio 3, they they they showed up. I think she did like Pinocchio, yeah. Alice in Wonderland. Beautiful, yeah. It was really good.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

That's so good. Um well, so I wanna I want to move forward a little bit. Uh, what about middle school? You know, I don't know if it's it's called middle school, but you know, it's the same time in everyone's life where you're suddenly very aware of yourself and your peers.

SPEAKER_05 26:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

And um, what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_05 26:36

Yeah. So back in the days, we called it junior secondary school. Okay. And we had senior secondary school. I went to schools called federal schools, they were owned by the federal government of Nigeria. They were like choice, like they were like the best schools in the country. And for you to get into those schools, you had to test into the school. And uh, I remember the school motto for us was Prounitate, right? The unity of all. And I lived in the South. The first posting of school that I got was in the north. And so, and they were boarding houses. The whole idea is they took the best students from all over the country and they placed them far away from where they call home. Oh, because Nigeria is a very it's a multi-ethnic nation, multi-religious nation. And so, for the leadership at that time, they wanted the children who are the future of the country to learn how to live with people that spoke a different language and had a different religion. Interesting. Yeah. So when I went to boarding house, when I went to junior secondary school, I remember my first punk mate, she was from the north and she was Muslim. And she slept underneath me, I slept on top. Different cultures, but we all just we blend, we live together, we learn how to love each other through our differences. And so when people say I'm very tolerant, that that is in my DNA because I went to school six years with people from all over Nigeria, different background from me. I mean, there were people from the south too, but most of the people that went to my school did not speak my language.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 28:32

Some of them were Muslims, they were Catholics, they were evangelicals, they were Pentecostals, and the school had a place of worship for the Muslims. The father came, did mass for us, those of us that were Catholics, the evangelicals, the Pentecostals, they had a pastor come do their services on Sunday, but they taught us how to live in unity with another human. And I'm always grateful for that.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Wow, that's really neat. Yeah. Um what so was that in middle school? That that's that was in middle school. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 29:13

So I was in junior high and in the same school I went to senior high. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Okay. Um were, you know.

SPEAKER_05 29:22

It was not a Christian school.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 29:24

But I will describe it as a classical school. Because it was the same tenets, right? Moral formation, intellectual formation, right? And we were allowed to, you had electives and Bible knowledge was one of them. So although it was not a Christian school, I did study Bible knowledge. I had Bible classes my entire six years. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

So you could, you know, it's a public school. It's a public school, but we could elect to study the Bible.

SPEAKER_05 29:51

That's really neat.

SPEAKER_04 29:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Um what about difficult times in middle school? I mean, they're putting everybody together. Like I'm sure now it's great, but it couldn't have all been easy.

SPEAKER_05 30:05

It was hard. You know, because different ethnic groups have different temperaments. Yeah. Different religious people have different like the temperaments were different.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Right. Throwing everybody together.

SPEAKER_05 30:18

Bring everybody together. And the interesting thing is that we all lived in dormitories, and each room had like 20 people in it. We would have like 10 bunk beds or even more. Like five, five, or six, six facing each other, two people, someone on top, someone at the bottom.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Like a barracks, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:39

Like yeah, something like that. And each room had a room captain who is a senior. You know? So it could be a senior, it could be a junior or a senior. So someone in SS2 or SS3. And they were in charge of us. And when you misbehave, the seniors will ask you to kneel down as punishment. Not the teachers.

SPEAKER_04 31:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 31:05

The students were the leaders. Wow. And they led us. And we'd I mean, I could not call it junior or a senior Alex. I'll refer to you as senior Alex because the understanding is that they're older than you in years, they have more wisdom, and they are there to care for you. Now, we had house mistresses, but they weren't there all the time. They showed up on Saturday mornings to make sure everywhere is clean. We had duties. Some of us raked out leaves in the morning, some of us swept, some of us had to scrub the floor on Saturday mornings, some of us had to clean the bathrooms. Everybody had a responsibility. We did not have a janitorial staff. We did all the cleaning. And we didn't have water rushing from our bathrooms. You everybody had a bucket, and we had a time in the evening where you go down to go fetch water from the main source. You hide your water underneath your bed, and then and then if if you have a senior as your bunkmates, which some people did, there were privileges that came with that. You are also responsible for getting that senior bucket filled with water. Yeah. But you will have some privileges for doing that. You know, maybe extra time staying awake at night. But everything was regimented. We had time, we got up in the morning, the bell goes off, it's time to wake up. You better wake up because when the seniors come around and you're still sleeping, you're gonna get into serious trouble. So just imagine the amount of discipline you get learning all of that.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Did the did the seniors like wield their power pretty well? Yeah, they weren't too tyrannical with you.

SPEAKER_05 32:55

Some of them were, but yeah, but nobody cared. It was what it was. Some of them were definitely tyrannical, some of them were extremely kind.

SPEAKER_04 33:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:05

You know, it was a good balance, and I think the schools did it intentionally like that. You know, we would say some of them were mean, but some of them were very kind, you know. And that was how we lived every day.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

That's so interesting. Because we, you know, we don't in school largely um give students that level of responsibility over each other.

SPEAKER_05 33:26

And that was missing.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:28

I'm telling you. And when I look back at my peers, they are all doing great things.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 33:34

Yeah. And they're making a difference in the world.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

That and I I can see why, because there's this um recognition that adulthood is what you're aiming for. And so when a senior is being put in a in a leadership position like that, yeah, the kids are saying, okay, well, they're in a position that's of adulthood. But you know, in in schools now, here it's like, oh, who you're a teacher's pet if you were if you're in a position like that. You know, and and so like we make fun of kids for wanting to be responsible.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

And wanting to have authority, like, oh, who are you that you should have authority?

SPEAKER_03 34:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Uh and and that I think the the consequence for a lot of us is that um the goal ends up being trying to stay kids and cool forever instead of actually becoming adults.

SPEAKER_05 34:30

Exactly. Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, every every set, right? Every set, graduating set, when they're seniors, they have who we call a head girl. I went to a girls-only high school. Our head girl during my set, Loretta Ogburo, she just ran for the governor of her state.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 34:53

And I was just telling a friend that came to see me this weekend that I had not seen in 32 years. It felt like we had seen each other just yesterday. And we were reminiscing about school. And I said there was something they saw in Loretta that we would never have seen. I said, but look at how far she has gone, what she has given back to her state. And she's a gynecologist in the UK. Wow. But she just ran for the governor of her state. That's amazing. Yeah. Just imagine. She started learning how to be a leader in the four walls of her high school.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Right.

SPEAKER_05 35:26

And I wouldn't be surprised if she becomes the president of Nigeria one day. Wow. Because she's driven like that.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

That's awesome. So in high school, um, were there more kind of formative experiences for you being in a classical school?

SPEAKER_05 35:41

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:42

I mean, I talk about the responsibility you had as a student. You know, there was no mom or dad to wake you up in the morning, right? We had to get up very early because we had morning duties. Remember, it was a boarding house. We don't have janitors. When you wake up, the bell goes off around 5 a.m., 5 30, depending on your age, the age group. Those who need to sweep the room, everybody goes out to do a duty quickly. By 6 a.m., we all shower. By 6 30, we're on our way to the dining room. And the bell, the only thing that reminds you of what next is the bell. You know? And so, and when the house mistress is out, when they are getting up, getting ready to go to the dining hall with us, they are sweeping through the dormitories. If you're left behind, oh my goodness, your backside is in trouble. So you see the house mistress, she'll walk quickly, briskly, she looks because kids, you know, kids, they are treacherous too sometimes. So some kids who are left behind, they want to hide. So these house mistresses, they are savvy. They check underneath the bed, they look into the cloakrooms, they check the bathroom, they they sweep, and then they lock the doors. So even if you're hiding, they're gonna catch up with you because you're gonna be marked absent.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

Oh man.

SPEAKER_05 37:04

It was a military camp. And so, and you see, we were just so happy. You see us as we're walking down, we're singing, going to the dining, we sang a lot. Everything was about singing for us.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

That's so interesting because you you know, when people think of a really strict school, they just think, oh, it's somber.

SPEAKER_05 37:22

Oh no, we we loved we if there's any experience I want to live, is my high school experience. Yeah, it was the best experience, you know. So we go to the dining room, we have breakfast right after breakfast, sometime and the distance from our classrooms to our dormitories, uh maybe it's my little child's mind will be about 1.5 miles to two miles. Wow, it was a long walk.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

That is a long walk, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:53

But we didn't even know because we're all talking to each other, we're laughing, we're singing, and then we're already in the classroom.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:00

And so your parents will pack some, we called it provisions back in the day, like groceries for you. You also have to learn to manage because visiting day was once a month. Oh, yeah, and for some students, if you're eight hours, 12 hours from the school, your parents may not visit you the entire time. I was fortunate, I was four hours from the school. So my parents will come once a month, and sometimes my parents would be like, We can't make it, you know. So you have to ration your groceries or your provision, your snacks in such a way that it it it it was enough for the entire quarter. And I remember my friend who came this weekend, she was telling my daughter, she said, your mom was a picky eater. So she would eat her groceries like one month, it's all done. I was a picky eater. I didn't eat a lot of the things that the school served. That's funny. So I just fell back to my cereal all the time.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Yeah, that's great. Uh yeah. Um, what about the kind of piece of classical that I think that gets a lot of attention is reading great texts. Oh. Did you guys read great texts in those schools? Did any stand out for you?

SPEAKER_05 39:17

Ah. One that stood out for me, of course, a tale of two cities. We read a tale of two cities. We read there's this one, this one with the kids abandoned on an island that they were they had become savages. Lord of the Flies. We read that. That was one hard one for us. Oh, yeah. We read a lot of Shakespeare. Um, we read a lot of um European texts, like um, what was this one? She Stoops to Conquer. You know that book? Animal Farm. Yeah, we read that. Um To Kill a Mockingbird, we read that. I'm trying to see the ones that I read that my kids read. To Kill a Mockingbird, To Sir With Love.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Nice. And and did you have a discussion about them? Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:03

Oh yeah. And one thing I did not like about the Nigerian system of education back in the days is that after junior high, after middle school, everyone had to take an entrance exam. And that entrance exam is testing for the sciences, math, English language arts. If you fail sciences and math, you you are automatically placed in a humanities class. Oh. If you pass science and math, then you will be in the sciences. If you're just right in the middle, they put you in the social sciences.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 40:40

Yeah. So I was placed in the social sciences. And I remember going to one of my science classes, physics, chemistry, and I'm just like, man, why do I not? Why am I not taking literature? That's my favorite subject. Yeah. And the guidance counselor said, because you are in a science class, you're not going to do anything art. It's automatically better. It's yeah, yeah. I put I didn't do government. I even signed students. We went signed students for you to even choose Bible knowledge as an elective in senior high. You have to prove that you can manage a certain workload.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 41:24

It was reserved for the art students. Yeah. And so I I started crying every day.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:31

And eventually they switched me to art class, and I was the happiest student. I loved the conversations in history class, in literature class, but I had to advocate for myself.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 41:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Yeah. So in that way it wasn't, it wasn't like liberal arts. In that way, it started to become utilitarian. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 41:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Because if you're good at math science, well then you go this way.

SPEAKER_05 41:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

And then if you're not, then you get the humanities.

SPEAKER_05 41:58

Then you get the humanities, yeah. He was it was annoying. Yeah. So I mean that that was whereas in junior high, everybody did everything. And so yeah. My dad was upset with me that I changed because he always wanted me to be a doctor, but I'm like, no, that's not what I want to be, you know. So eventually the council allowed me to switch to what I wanted for myself. That's good, at least. Which was great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

It's nice that it seems like from a young age you knew what made you happy and you knew what it made me make you happy.

SPEAKER_05 42:33

Strong-willed like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Yeah. Um so I, you know, I I think that's really good for students, is like knowing, you know, but but that's paired with a willingness to do what's difficult. So it's not like what you see a lot with students today where it's like, well, I'm just not a math person. But it's it's like, no, these things really light me up.

SPEAKER_05 43:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

But I'm still willing to do the difficult stuff.

SPEAKER_05 43:05

That's right. And to be honest with you, even as an art student, you were required to do some sciences. Sure. Right? We had everybody had to do biology, everybody had to do geography, economics, and all those things, you know. But you were not required to do physics and chemistry.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:25

Whereas on their side, too, you they were allowed to do, of course, they all did English language arts and maybe one more art elective, something like that.

unknown 43:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Okay. So post secondary, what where do you go next? And what's your next kind of I I wanted to be a lawyer.

SPEAKER_05 43:45

Okay. Right? Yeah. Because I I I find I I I I consider myself an advocate for people. I had a strong sense of justice, fairness, and I love speaking up for people. So in my mind, I just Felt, you know what, I will be a great lawyer. But my dad, I later found out my dad did not want me to be a lawyer because he already had a son that turned out to be a lawyer and he felt the profession changed his character. Really? Yes. And that's I don't know where my dad got that from. Whether it's true or not, I don't know. But that was my dad's mindset. And I'm for the worst, yeah. And as a as a girl child with six children, I mean six children, I'm the only girl last born. My dad didn't want that for me. And so I remember when I told my dad I wanted to study law, he's like, no, Toyne, why would you want to do that? Lawyers are liars. And I said, No, I'm not going to be a liar. I'm going to be a good lawyer. My dad, my dad quickly realized that he was dealing with a strong-willed child, so he changed his strategy from you're not going to study law to how about you go study English first? How about you have a good command of the language you're going to be advocating for people in? And he convinced me, and I said, Wow, dad, that's such a great dad said you're young. I went to college when I was 16. Oh, wow. Yeah, I was very young. With all those classes. Was that normal? I mean, I wouldn't call it normal, but it's not uncommon.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 45:15

Yeah. In Nigeria, they push you so hard. Once you show any tendencies, you can skip a grade. Yeah. Once your parents are good. Interesting. So we kids would skip grades. Yeah. And so my dad's like, you're young. You can study English. And my dad said, think about how confident you will be. It sounded like a great plan. So I said, okay. And my dad said, look, when you go to developed nations, you can't just go to law school. You start by doing pre-law. Right. And so my dad said, I think that so I said, Oh yeah, I want to study more about English. Yeah. I want to know how to write better. I want to know how to articulate myself better. So I decided to go study English with plans to go to law school. But later I heard from my dad that it was wisdom he had borrowed from the Holy Spirit to buy me time. And he kept hoping that I'll find a man that will discourage me from the law. From doing law. And it was a perfect answer prayer. Because from day one that I met my husband, he always said, I wanted to marry a teacher. And I said, Well, you haven't found your wife because I want to be a lawyer.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

And I don't have dreams of being a teacher.

SPEAKER_05 46:27

And here I am teaching. And I am forever grateful to my dad for guiding me towards teaching. Because I feel like that's what I was called to do.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

When did you know? When did the when did the did you shift from law to teaching? Um yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:49

Yeah, it changed when I started having children. You know? When I was looking for a classical school for my son, and I suddenly realized that I wanted to join Great Hearts. And then I joined Great Hearts. What I loved about being a teacher is how similar the schedule, my schedule was with the children's schedule.

SPEAKER_03 47:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:16

And just being able to be a part of the education was just priceless. I really enjoyed that. When my son will come to my window and say, Mom, do you have a snack? Like, I really love that. Yeah. And then I'll run out, give him a snack, give him a hug. How's school? That that was just such a blessing to be able to go to school with my children.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

It really is. Yeah. Yeah. I I got to do that uh for a few years as well. And it was so wonderful to be able to go over while they're playing and uh and see them.

SPEAKER_03 47:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Just the other day, my son was like, Hey, remember when you were the headmaster at my school? Um I got to see you. And I was like, Yeah, that was great. You know, and then the time in the car with them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:02

And when I look back now at where I am, what I have done, what I'm doing, I realized that, you know, what brought me to great hearts was you know how the lottery is. It's either you're in or you're out. My son didn't win the lottery. I did not want him in a public school. Not for anything in the world. And so when I called the head office, I said there must be some other way to get him in. And they said I had to be a faculty member. And at that time, I was at Chandler Gilbert Community College. I said, okay, my husband said, Toin, you're the teacher. You should, if you care so much about this classical thing, you make the sacrifice. Initially, I said, no, I don't want to run after children. But by the time I slept and woke up the following day, I felt the Holy Spirit just speaking to me that how do you say you love this young man and you can't show it by your actions? What then is love? Like, is it not a sacrifice that we make anymore? And so I told my husband, I said, you know what, it's the right thing to do. I can do it. I'll go in. I remember my husband even making fun of my accents, like, I don't think those kids will understand your accent. But in my usual I know. In my usual, I mean, when people tell me I can't do something, that's when I want to do it to prove a point. You know, I said, What do you mean by of course it was hard in the beginning, you know, the kids and but it became a joke in the class when I would pronounce something differently from them, and I'll say, you know what, that's the Nigerian way of saying it. How about you teach me the American way? And they loved it. And sometimes they will say something in the Nigerian way and say, Mr. Wayne, did you get I was using my Nigerian accent? And it was just so beautiful. Those that first year at Great Hearts, my students, shout out to them, they were just troopers and they helped me a lot. Yeah. So that I mean, and that's what I say to people, right? When Jesus talks about love not failing, right? And bearing with each other in love, Jesus didn't he didn't dwell on the proceeds of loving others. You know, maybe because he doesn't want us to focus on what we can benefit from loving other people. Right. But I dare to say that if I had not made the sacrifice for Tony at that time, my purpose would have passed me by. In seeking the good of the other, I found my own purpose.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

That's so well said.

SPEAKER_05 50:41

And I am grateful to God for that. It was in though in that moment, making those decisions, that I realized that this is what I was born to do.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Yeah, is isn't that a piece of wisdom? Because uh so much of the world is saying, pursue what's right for you. Think about just you. And we all live in community, you know. There's no there's no uh there's nowhere you can be where you're not affecting other people.

SPEAKER_05 51:08

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

And um and we we are better versions of ourselves when we're doing something for others.

SPEAKER_05 51:16

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

I always worked much harder for my students than I would for me, you know? Yeah, I always worked much harder once I had children than I would for me.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

Um and uh and so yeah, I it I think it's so important for people not in education to have some sort of experience like that. And of course, being a parent is part of it too, but yeah, but um that's just well said.

SPEAKER_05 51:42

Yeah, and and that's why I challenge parents. When parents come to my tours and they say, Oh, I live 30 minutes away from school, my question is, and so think about it. You drive 30 minutes, one hour to a place of peace that could potentially refine and define the destiny of your child, compared to later on in life when they are calling you that they are the police station or they're in the back of a police van or they've just been checked into Penal County jail. Yeah, is which which travel do you want to make? Now or then when they are drugged out somewhere because they've lost their way, you know? I don't let parents get off that hook easily. It's a sacrifice. You and you have to make it. If that's where your child, someone is going to partner with you in cultivating their hearts and their minds, it's worth the drive. I mean, when I started with Great Hearts, the first school that gave me a job was Trivium. I lived in Owatuki. I drove that little boy to Trivium for three years. I lived in Owatuki our first year. By the second year, we moved to Gilbert.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

That's even farther. Yeah, what was the time on that?

SPEAKER_05 52:55

Was like an hour, depending on when we leave now. Poor boy. That boy, we, oh my goodness, we You had some good travel time.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

We had some good travel time together.

SPEAKER_05 53:05

He never complained, you know. He'll just sleep through it.

SPEAKER_04 53:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:08

You know? But guess what? You look at him today, he's so grounded.

SPEAKER_04 53:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:13

And that's that's what gives me joy now.

unknown 53:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:17

We made the sacrifice like 15, 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

It's interesting the way you say that because it it just kind of reminds me of our differing definitions of freedom. You know, I remember a parent saying, um, uh the parent said, I give my kid much more freedom at your school, where I know you the people who come here care about uh character, your virtue, you know, no one's perfect, but like the kids aren't doing the sorts of things they're doing at a giant public school. Uh I can give my kid more freedom. Like that's that's what kids actually don't realize. They think, oh, I want to go have the high school experience. And it's like, look, your parents can actually give you a lot more space if you're showing discipline, if you're showing virtue, if you're showing character. Um, and it's kind of going back to what you said about the school that you went to. If uh the more responsibility you were given, the more freedom you were given. And that just kind of is part of life.

SPEAKER_05 54:22

Yeah. And I look at my 16-year-old who, you know, the church, I love our church, Lifelink Church. They have something called the Great Green, where they it's once a year, and hopefully one of them will hear me say this. And basically what they do is they go on a scavenger hunt on Friday night from 7 p.m. until 7 a.m. Wow. And kids could do it from like age 12, 13. And I never allowed my daughter to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_03 54:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:53

And every year she would come, Mom, I want to be a part of Great Green. And I say, Sweetheart. When I make decisions with your dad, we make decisions in partnership with the Holy Spirit. There is nothing inside of me that says it's okay for a 13-year-old to be out there doing some scavenging in the middle of the night. I said, in the middle of the night, every 13-year-old should be in there. That's what I was taught by my parents, and that's what I'm going to impart in you because traditions are carried from generation to generation. She would cry. But now she's 16. They have this whole great. Now, mind you, she's driving. We've given her some privileges, like now she can have Instagram. But they have great green going on, and she hasn't come to me to ask. So one day I asked her, I said, Tommy, you have a lot of freedom now, but you're not even asking about great green. And she goes, Mom, you and Dad have been right all along. I don't want to scavenge in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_04 55:57

That's a way to be able to do it. She has the freedom now.

SPEAKER_05 56:00

But her heart is still not craving because her mind is telling her that, and I'm not trying to bring the church down. I love my church, I love my pastors. But there's a point you get to as a human that you're thinking for yourself. I do not like groupthink, and I do not like tribal thinking. I think it does great disservice to the individual. And I tell my kids, I want you to be a Nicodemus. If there's someone who can leave the tribe and pursue truth, yeah. Right? And so other parents do it. I respect their wishes for their families. But in our family, kids are in their beds at 3 a.m.

SPEAKER_04 56:40

Yeah. Period.

SPEAKER_05 56:42

You know? So you talk about freedom. Now that she's a junior, she's going to be 17. She has a lot of freedom, Alex. It's unbelievable. And this girl because she can wield it well. Yeah. But she still works within the boundaries of what she has been given. She calls me after school every day. She's called me already. Hey, mom, I'm on my way to the library. And I told her, I said, guess what? I will meet you at the library today. And she's excited about it. You know? She comes home, she goes to church for a youth group. She, I mean, but that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Yeah. What would you say to parents who think, you know, I don't want to go to these strict schools. I don't want to send my kids to these strict schools because then they're going to, you know, they're they're going to hold it against me or they're going to lose their love. You know, I haven't, I um, I think you have to be strict in the right ways. Yeah. But I've I haven't seen that in the schools that I've run or taught at. So what would you say to parents who are worried too much discipline is really going to crush the spirit of my kid at a classical school?

SPEAKER_05 57:49

I understand their worries, but I also want to say that the heart and mind of the growing child craves for boundaries. Children want to be led, you know, and we don't want them to just stumble on things. We want adults that are God-fearing, raising them and guiding them and training them. What I say to the parents I coach is I don't want you to ever think that children are tabula rasas. They're not empty seats. Every time you encounter a child, you always have to leave in room for dialogue. You have to help them understand the why. And the way you help them understand the why is through questioning. Right? If you can get children to a place where they can think critically about situations and you put the right content in front of them, I find children to be reasonable people. But when they lack the platform to engage in inquiry and critical thinking, that's where we have a problem. They are just told what to do. They are not engaged in the why. I think that's where we run into problems. I remember my son always wanted Xbox and PlayStation. And Dad and I would always, that I mean, this was dad, dad would always say, Oh my goodness, son, I can afford to buy you 10 PlayStations. I can buy you 20 Xboxes. However, I see children every day on my job struggling with addiction. And the question I ask myself is, abstinence could have fixed this. And so, son, I just struggle. And then you hear him say, Well, dad, I promise I'm not I'm not gonna get addicted to it. And our next question is, how do you know that? Yeah, well, mom can I said no, I can't track anything. Because remember when we bought you iPads for reading, eventually those iPads ended up in my desk at school because I couldn't keep track. After a while, you knew all my hideouts, and the moment my back was turned, you go get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

Because they're designed that way, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:12

And I'm like, so we even have trust issues here, Tony. Don't call me into this conversation because one, I don't trust you, two, I've experienced it with your iPads, yeah, and now they live in my desk. Yeah, and it would say, Okay, mom, that's true. Yeah, I guess I've broken the trust. 18 years in our home. He had no video games, yeah. But guess what? The first semester of college, we get that phone call saying, Mom and dad, thank you. Because my next door neighbor, Jack and Jill Room, he doesn't even go to classes, he's just wee video games. Eventually he was kicked out. It was an acrobat, acrobatics scholarship, full ride. Oh, completely lost everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

So didn't didn't build up the discipline when he needed to.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:01

When he needed to.

unknown 1:01:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:03

So their hearts are crying for discipline. You know, their frontal lobe is not developed yet to value it, but someday they will come back. I mean, my daughter wanted to go to ACP, was that school down the road?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:17

She mounted pressure. Yeah, and every day I would look at her in the morning and say, Ah, sweetheart, I have the right to choose your K-12 education because my parents did it for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:28

Now, when you want to go to college, sweetheart, you can go to Australia, you can go to Nigeria. It's really none of my business. That's your right. I say, but nobody born of a human will deny me of my right as a parent to choose your school.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:43

Yeah. You know what? I have not ever had a graduate come through a K-12 class school program and say, I regret going through this.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:55

10th grade, she came and said thank you. She's like, Mom and dad, thank you for being my parents. Yep. And I'm looking at this child. She's so proud of her school. Yeah. She's so grateful for the education. It's paying off already.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

Yep. I mean, I've had kids come back and say, you know, I've learned a lot since the school, and I I might disagree in this way or that way, but there's never like uh I wish I had gone to the easier school, or I wish I had gone to the school that made me read less, or I wish I'd gone to the school that didn't care about my character so much. Like when you're an adult, you just you don't think that way. At least if you want to be a better adult, that's right. So well, um, I just want to wrap up our time. Uh, I'd love to hear what you're doing. You know, we talked a little bit about parents, what you're you're doing with parents, because when I worked with you, I thought um your focus on working with parents was always so important and impressive.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:02

I mean, parents. Oh, I love I love working with parents. You know, I've always been intrigued by that institution of parenting because I'm one myself. I remember even, I mean, the point I was gonna have our first child, it was so painful. I was screaming my head off, jumping in my bed, moving hell to skeleton, like begging, please help me, somebody, I'm dying. So dramatic. And I just went for a regular checkup, and I was told I had lost all my water. They held me down, I begged to go get my bag, they said no. So I was trapped in the hospital for hours and I was screaming. This was around 7 p.m. This nurse just walked into my room and she looked at me. She said, Mom, you seem so distressed. I said, Yes. And she looked at me, she said, Do you want this baby to come out alive? I said, What do you mean by that? She said, You need to settle down. She came to my bedside, she said, Sweetheart, I have my own children. I know it's hard. She held my hands and said, She said, I know what you're doing is hard. But think about what could go wrong. She said, Now picture this. From what the nurses are telling me, this baby is about to come out, but the baby is not coming out. She said, What do you think is responsible for that? I said, I'm not a doctor, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:34

I just want the baby to come out.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:36

She said, Okay, you don't know, I'll tell you. And she she drew something, she said, Okay, this is this is what's happening. Every time you move around, you scare that boy back. Every time you fidget, every time you scream, you scare this poor baby back. And soon this baby is gonna get tired, and then we're gonna have to wheel you in for a CS section. She said, How about you do this for me? Take a deep breath when the pain comes, just take a deep breath. I don't scream, I don't yell. Guess what will happen? I looked at this woman, she said, Does that make sense? I said, Yes, it makes sense. She said, Okay, I'll stay here with you. Let's try. And every time I think I squeezed her, she said, just squeeze my head, don't scream, don't yell, just stay still. It was like a miracle lecture. The greatest five minute lecture of my lifetime. She saved me. She taught me how to labor. But for her, who knows what would have happened? I may have ended up with a CS. And shortly after. The doctor came back, checked. She said, Oh, yeah, you're advancing well. And I was calm for the rest of the day. Because I just kept on thinking, don't scare the baby. The baby needs a quiet space to come out. Now, what I don't know if it's true, but it worked in the moment. But it took someone who cared. Mind you, she came from the pediatric world. I had nurses in the gynecology world. They'll come in and look at me with a smirk on their faces. Like, I remember a nurse saying, Did you not know what you signed up for? Why are you disturbing the peace of the world? And she walked out upset with me. And this poor nurse Ingrid came from the pediatric word and extended mercy towards me. And so when people asked me, Why are you so passionate about helping parents? Because the minute I was going to become a parent, someone showed up for me and held my hands through the excruciating moments of labor. And that's why you can't you cannot represent parents in a negative way in my presence. Oh my goodness, I will I will I will really come for you. Like just calm down. It's a very hard, and I'm not trying to indulge parents in mediocrity. I I have expectations for the parents at my school, they know it, but they know that I'm going to walk that journey with them through it. And so what I'm doing personally now, I started Lighthouse Parenting. It's it's it's a hub of resources for parents. I want parents to know that they're not on that journey by themselves. Um, we're providing coaching support, public speaking for schools, communities who want to learn more about parenting. How do I manage technology in my home? How do I deal with sibling rivalry? How do I raise a strong-willed child? You know, mentoring for parents and also training for parents at different schools that provide that kind of training for their parents. But the whole idea of Lighthouse Parenting Hub, right? Partnership is our way, right? Partnership is our way, love is our compass. We just want you to know that you have someone in the corner.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

That's great. Thank you, Dr. Atalagbe, for being on the Furos Podcast. This is a great place to end it. So you heard it, uh Parenting Lighthouse Hub, and thank you for listening to another episode of the Furos Podcast. And we'll see you again in two weeks.