The Pacific Aesthetic Continuum's Podcast
Wondering what other dentists are experiencing and what solutions there are to the challenges in dentistry. Listen to what your colleagues are doing to improve the quality of their lives.
The Pacific Aesthetic Continuum's Podcast
PAC Podcast with Cathy Jameson and Garrett Caldwell: Unlocking Your Dental Practice's Success through Strategic Marketing and Management
What if marketing was the key to unlocking the full potential of your dental practice? Join us as we dive into an enlightening conversation with Cathy Jameson, PhD, the visionary founder of Jameson Management Incorporated. With her vast experience in transforming over 2,500 dental practices worldwide, Cathy sheds light on how the integration of marketing and management can redefine success in the realm of dentistry. From the power of aligning your practice’s mission and values with strategic marketing efforts to creating an environment that naturally attracts referrals, Cathy shares invaluable insights that every dental professional needs to hear.
Discover how the right mix of management and marketing can ensure patient retention and enhance practice profitability. Cathy explores effective strategies to maintain a high level of hygiene retention, aiming for a remarkable 85% to 90% of active patients. We also discuss the significance of evolving away from managed care programs and the impact of corporate dental organizations on the industry. Alongside Cathy, we explore how a well-designed, patient-focused website and skilled patient interactions can become powerful marketing tools that support sustainable growth.
Beyond marketing, the episode delves into fostering a fulfilling dental career through continuous education and personal growth. Cathy emphasizes the importance of lifelong learning for both new and seasoned practitioners, highlighting its role in boosting confidence and delivering cutting-edge dental care. We explore challenges faced by young dentists seeking work-life balance and discuss the rapid changes in the dental industry, including insurance sector challenges and the transition of seasoned practitioners. Tune in for an episode packed with powerful strategies and insights to help you thrive in the ever-evolving dental landscape.
For more information contact the Pacific Aesthetic Continuum at https://thepac.org.
Well, everybody, I'm excited today. Sorry, my screen's moving around a little bit. I'm at the airport and getting ready to catch a flight, but before I caught that flight, so if you see people roaming around behind me, that's what's going on. But I'm really excited because today we had Kathy Jamison and I felt it was so important to get her interview that I figured, no matter where I was, I was going to get the interview. So I hope the sound's okay. But anyway, Kathy Jamison is a PhD and we are very excited to have her because she is the founder of Jamison Management Incorporated, which is an international dental consulting firm that offers proven management, hygiene and marketing systems for helping organizations improve their workflow and efficiency in a positive and forward-thinking culture.
Speaker 1:I think those are some very important words. With a background in education, communication, psychology and management, she worked alongside her husband, Dr John Jameson, as his office manager, helping the practice develop the systems for success. Now she and Jameson consultants have helped over 2,500 dental practices in every state in the US and 31 countries, so those are pretty amazing statistics. There. Kathy has been named one of the top 25 women in dentistry and has received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the American Association of Dental Office Managers and from the Excellence in Dentistry Organization. Kathy was invited by the American Dental Association's Council on Dental Practice to participate in the development of the ADA's Guidelines for Practice Success module.
Speaker 1:On managing finances, Kathy is also an author of nine books, including her latest title, Creating a Healthy Work Environment, and has had over 1,500 articles published worldwide. Too busy there, articles published worldwide Too busy there we focus. And since we focus on the business of dentistry and helping our listeners have more success, we thought it's really important to have Kathy here. So, Kathy, welcome. And we also have Garrett again, the CEO of the Pacific Aesthetic Continuum and the CEO of Core Dental Laboratory. So anyway, Kathy and Garrett, welcome to today's recording.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. I have a long history with your organization and it's a wonderful history and I appreciate what you do for doctors and teams and organizations in our profession and your commitment to continuing education and just the support we all need out in the field in various and sundry ways. So thank you for what you are doing at PAC and thank you for allowing me to remain a part of your activities. Thank you, it's a joy to be here.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, I think we should backfill that. And, garrett, you know it even better. But Kathy's been kind of a part of the Pacific Ascetic Continuum for decades, so that's why we are so excited to have you back as our guest. Yeah, that's great. So, yeah, we can jump in, you know what.
Speaker 1:Garrett and I have been talking about is running our dental practices like a business, because a lot of us clinicians we're so focused on the clinical side that we let the business side go and if the business side goes then we end up not being very happy because we don't get any return for all of our efforts.
Speaker 1:So I know, with your background, one of the things I asked because there's so many different areas we can go into is kind of marketing. One of the podcasts that Garrett and I had done just a couple podcasts back we were talking about decreasing practice's reliance on dental insurance. But we had talked about how dental insurance is often the lifeline feeding new patients to the practice. So practice may not be doing a lot of their own marketing, relying on those insurance companies to feed them with patients In today's environment. A couple questions I have is one do you feel that clinicians should be doing any kind of marketing, and especially those doctors that follow the Pacific Aesthetic Continuums kind of focus on it, especially aesthetics and implants, maybe high revenue services? What types of marketing have you found to be valuable for your clients?
Speaker 2:Great comments and great questions as well. I believe so profoundly in marketing, as you so succinctly said, while the doctors are clinicians and their care of the patients is uppermost. It's a part of who they are and what they do, and it's the driving force and the emotional support that any dentist, including my husband. You love taking care of patients. You want them to be healthy, happier, more attractive all of the above, and that's a driving force. However, it is also true that a dental practice is a business, as you so well said, and it's in most cases, a pretty substantial business. So the business is not only a conglomeration of systems. There's about 25 major systems, in fact, in a dental practice. Sometimes doctors may not realize that, but if you outline them or look at them, there are that many systems up and running, and if 24 systems are working well but one isn't, that one that isn't working well can pull away from the integrity of the whole. But, as we all know and this has been said for so long and yet there's not much being done about it organizations like yours do, and I think there's more and more of this happening, but for the doctors and teams to be happy to attract good people into the practice where they come as team members. They come, they thrive, they're successful and they want to stay. All of those things are important. We have to have an organization that is well-managed and smooth operating and very clearly focused on the service that's being provided. Well, how do people know about that? How does somebody know which dentist to go to and how do we know who's going to provide the kind of care I may want? So there's where your marketing comes in. You can't really, in my opinion, separate management and marketing. They go hand in hand, and so are management systems just that systems, indeed, they are. There's both internal management and marketing systems that are the heartbeat of the practice day to day, and there's external marketing as well and, as you so well said, a lot of doctors and organizations, whether it's a solo practitioner or a large corporate entity. Sometimes people stop paying attention to both the internal and the external marketing because they have this free flow of patients coming in. And I'd like to say this in my opinion, in my pretty vast experience, the number of people that you see in a day is not the answer to a profitable dental practice. The answer to a profitable dental practice is where people come in the appropriate number, whatever that is for the individual practice where they say yes to the treatment being recommended. Those are systems as well.
Speaker 2:How do we diagnose? What's the new patient experience like? How do we diagnose? How do we treatment plan? How do we present recommendations to a patient? And are we tracking how many people we are presenting to, but also how many of those people are saying yes to the treatment that we are recommending? And if there's a big diversity there, if you're presenting a lot of dentistry, you're seeing a lot of people, but you're not really performing or completing treatment plans, then you've got a glitch in your system. So, are people coming in the appropriate number for your practice? So you also have to know what's the average amount of production being provided per patient.
Speaker 2:We aren't going to just guess how many new patients do we need. Well, why would you guess on something that is that important? I want to know how many people are being presented recommendations, how many of those people are accepting treatment, and I want to know what the average treatment acceptance ratio in my practice is. Then I can make a very specific decision on how many patients do we need and want to attract to our practice every month, and then are we tracking that as well. So there's a lot involved in that. But if the systems are set up properly, if they're managed well by this team who is engrossed in and involved in and engaged in the health and well-being of the practice we've got those kinds of superstars on our team then we're going to be able to track that and then, as soon as we find out that something may not be going as well as we want, then we step up to the plate and do something about it, instead of oh my gosh, what's happened? Where did all the production go? Why is everything falling apart? Well, we should have known that before we got to that point. So again, I'm going to repeat this we want to have the appropriate number of people. We want, hopefully, for them to accept the treatment that we're recommending and that has to be tracked. Then are people paying for the treatment willingly? Because, doctor?
Speaker 2:I would like to suggest that when we're talking about marketing, one of the most important things that we market to is the financial options that we make available in our practice. Why, according to the American Dental Association and everyone knows this, but it's true in today's surveys done by the ADA money is the main reason people either don't come to the dentist or don't say yes to treatment. Either one of those is going to be a detriment to any practice that wants to thrive. So in a healthy practice, you want excellent systems of finance, financial options set up. You want your team, exquisitely engineering those systems, be able to speak to them. Listen to the objections a person will have. I mean, we're living in a very highly inflationary time, so it is an issue. It's an issue for everyone. So I want to be able to respond to that.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to say, oh, nobody in my practice can afford the dentistry. Yes, they can, if we find a way for them to fit that into their monthly income source, whatever that may be. So I've got to be good enough, if I'm the financial coordinator, to understand where the patient's coming from and be able to present to them the financial options we have in our practice and then hopefully overcome those barriers. So do people pay for the treatment? And I always say, do they pay for it willingly? I'm not going to say, happily, I'm not quite going to go that far, but are they paying for it willingly? Because they understand that what? They're going to go that far, but are they paying for it willingly, because they understand that what they're going to receive from the doctor and team is going to be very much equivalent to how much I'm paying for that service.
Speaker 2:I hope that when people walk out and they're finished with their treatment, they think that was one of the best investments I ever made, and it's an investment. That was one of the best investments I ever made, and it's an investment, not a cost. So there's that. So then we hope we have also systems, and this is according to internal marketing good, internal marketing, and that's your hygiene retention program.
Speaker 2:Are you retaining people in your practice once they've come? So what if they come so well, number one, I've got to say, yes, the treatment. Then we don't want them falling through the cracks, we want them to stay actively involved in hygiene. We would like to see 85% to 90% of all active patients actively involved in hygiene. Would 100% be better? Sure, but let's be realistic. 85% to 90%, and I'm going to track that and I'm going to have a superstar in the practice with job description related to hygiene retention. That doesn't mean that everybody is involved in that. They are the doctor, the clinicians, all the clinicians, the hygienists and, of course, the business team as well, so they stay actively involved in hygiene with you. And then, last but not least, is we hope that those people will refer to us, and that's another marketing strategy. In the past, about 70% of new patients came as a personal referral. Now it's between 50% and 60% Because, as you pointed out, because a lot of patients are involved in managed care programs of one kind or the other or they're involved in a corporate entity, both of which need to be managed very carefully and properly.
Speaker 2:But we've become less engaged in our own marketing and dependent on just somebody feeding patients to us. And if people are moving away from some of the managed care programs and there's a very specific way to do that how do you successfully and financially, in a a financially secure way, move out of some, if not all, of the managed care programs? And then there's ways to do that. But again, going back to what you said, if you're going to do that, you need to know how much are you producing on that program, how many patients are on that program and what do I need to do to replace that income? I don't care about replacing the whole number of people, I want to replace the income. So I've gone on and on. Does that make any sense?
Speaker 1:No, yeah, that was really good. You know, I think you answered that question well.
Speaker 1:You know I asked a question on marketing, but I think you're absolutely right and you have to the management and the marketing have to be combined because otherwise you could market and you can have 200 patients walking to your door every month but you may not hit your revenue goals because the systems will say under your doors are just all broken. So I think you hit that well. And you know, garrett and I had talked about that, this because I had trained my team that what you just talked about you know, it's not the number of bodies but what you can do with those bodies, and there's a difference between profitability and activity. Just because you're active doesn't mean you're going to be profitable. So, yeah, I loved everything that you said. I took lots of notes. I think you're right.
Speaker 1:The appropriate number of new patients is what's really important. You have to make sure you get the right patients and they accept what you're recommending and that they pay for it, and I think you have to track it to make sure. So no, I think the excellent systems are very important. So, yeah, Garrett, any insights you garnered. She's had a lot of great advice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I was taking notes as well. But you know, we would hope that our doctors are doing those types of procedure processes day to day which is always the case.
Speaker 3:But, more importantly, I think pretty much every seated doctor now is considering looking at how do I transition my practice. Either I want to sell my practice or do I go into a DSO. Am I a 10 or 15 year old practice to be honeymooned? And all of the things that you're talking about, I think, are at least what the doctors were working with. They're asking, you know, how would disconnecting from insurance affect my profitability? And the fear associated with that is answered by the statements that you just made and I think it's super important to understand that, and that is, I think, what's on the horizon for all of our doctors at least.
Speaker 2:I totally agree. I think there's a lot of reasons behind the influx of the corporate dental type of organization. There's different kinds of organizations as such, the massive numbers of managed care programs of various types, plus the baby boomer doctors are beginning to retire and already some have retired, and so there's going to be a big change there too too. So a lot of the dynamics of in multiple ways are going to impact that. One of the things that we focus on a lot at Jameson Management, because we do have a marketing, an entire marketing division, and so in speaking with the marketing experts that manage that division of the company, they said that one of the things, if not the most important thing, that they're working on right now. Again, as Dr Miyazaki just said to me, the management systems are a part of the marketing, because you want every single person listening and every person, hopefully a doctor, in the world. We want patients to have the kind of experience where they will go out and tell other people about us, of course. So it goes back to what is the mission, what is the vision, what kind of practice does Dr A, dr B, dr C want? What does John Jameson want in his practice? What does Dr Miyazaki want in his practice. Every doctor has the ability or the right, if you will, to have a practice that reflects their own desires, their own loves, their own passions. But we have to know what that is. And if I'm on a team and I want to follow that and I want to help that become a reality, I've got to be very clear on what that is. What is our mission? Have we built that together? What are the values that are absolutely imperative in everything that we do? And then the vision is what does that look like? What does it look like now? What's that going to look like as we move forward? And are we all on the same page about that? So again, whether it's the management systems or the marketing protocols, all of those need to reflect the who that an individual doctor or practice is and what it is that they're providing, and then to make sure that every single experience a patient has epitomizes that. So when we're looking at inviting patients to come in, of course, personal referral is still a major source of new patients, so that's why I don't care if I'm the person answering the phone or greeting the patient or at the chair. If I'm the doctor, no matter if I'm the financial coordinator. Interesting Garrett.
Speaker 2:I've asked hundreds of doctors have you ever sat and listened to your financial coordinator make a financial arrangement? Which that's where the rubber meets the road. Somebody may say to John Jameson oh yes, dr Jameson, you're the greatest, oh, you're so good. Oh, yes, yes, yes, that's just what I want, thank you so much. Then they sit with me and I confirm the treatment. I confirm that this is what they want, Thank you so much. Then they sit with me and I confirm the treatment. I confirm that this is what they want. Yes, yes, yes. And then we begin the discussion about money and the final close, if you will. The final close comes when the person says not only yes to the treatment but yes to the financial agreement. It's a written financial agreement where someone agrees on the total fee and the method of payment. So I've asked I think I don't think any doctor I've ever talked to has ever said yes, I've sat down and listened to my people make a financial arrangement. Rubber meets the road right there.
Speaker 2:But going back to pure marketing and you can call this internal or external, actually, because the website is one of the most powerful vehicles in marketing today. Actually, because the website is one of the most powerful vehicles in marketing today. So a doctor must ask herself do I have a professional designing my website, where the website really reflects who that I am, and does it reflect what I'm doing? Does it reflect the care that we're providing, the services we're providing, and do I have a pro helping me? Or am I trying to do this? You know, even though I have never had any training in how to develop a website. Is there somebody managing that, updating it? Are you revising it as need be, if there's new people coming in, if somebody has left, if you've added a new dimension, if you want to orient your practice towards comprehensive care aesthetics do people know that about you? Does your website say that?
Speaker 2:And the other thing about a lot of websites and you look at them all the time a lot of websites are more about the providers than they are about an invitation for a patient to come and join them. For example, we offer the best care possible. Our doctor is the greatest doctor on the face of the earth. You know those kinds of things. Instead of that, the words, the dialogue, the written communication in that website needs to be all about the patient you will receive, you will find when you come to our practice, you will be given da-da-da-da. We want the language and if you read a lot of the copy on the websites, it's all about the practice but it's not really about the patient and remember this with them what's in it for me? So we want the website to be what's in it for the patient and have it be oriented towards that. And again, a website probably needs to be totally, completely revised at least every three years. But you need to have a pro monitoring that, reporting on the track and tracking what's happening. Google reviews are huge in marketing. Today, even more new patients are coming from.
Speaker 2:Well, when somebody goes on and does a Google search, the very next thing they will do almost always is go to the website. And I again, sometimes that is so difficult to do. You need to make this easy, doctors. You need to make this so easy. It is the hub of all of your efforts and remember that's the first door your patient's going to walk through is that website Once and it's going to take a while marketing experts tell us that it takes five to seven contacts or touches that a patient may receive before they actually pick up the phone and call and schedule the appointment and then show up, so it could be a personal referral. It could you know who do you go to for a dentist? I need a new dentist, so I go to John Jameson oh great, then I'm going to go to John Jameson oh great. Then I'm going to go to Google and I'm going to look him up. Then I'm going to go to his website, then I'm going to maybe look at the reviews by other people. There's going to be several different touches before the patient picks up the phone. Then all bets are off unless this person answering this telephone is a superstar.
Speaker 2:They need to be so good at answering that phone that they know who's calling, that we've already taken down some information about the patient's name and their phone number and how to pronounce and spell them, because if you get disconnected or whatever, I want to be able to get back in touch with that person and I want to do such a good job on the phone that even if somebody is a shopper, people tell me in the practice they say, oh, we don't like shoppers, I love shoppers. I love shoppers because a shopper is somebody looking for a dental home and I want them to pick ours. So I like a shopper, but we have to be better than anybody else they talk to. So maybe they'll call us back. But if I've gotten their name and maybe a phone number, I can send a text to them immediately after my call telling them how glad we were that they called, how glad they were that they were searching for information about our practice, and send them to our website. So does that make sense? I mean, it's magical, but it's also a system, dr Miyazaki, which I was talking about. That's a system as well. So the website is the hub of all marketing efforts, and so I'm going to read these.
Speaker 2:This comes from my book called Success Strategies for the Aesthetic Dental Practice, published by Quintessence. I wrote this with Dr Linda Greenwall and it's everything anybody needs to know about running a dental practice and certainly about marketing. We have an internal marketing and an external marketing chapter. So from this here's questions. I'll just read this quickly to ask yourself about your own website doctors and team members who are listening. Is it current? Is it patient focused, as I mentioned, is it clearly branded, consistent message about you and about what your mission is and what you do and who you are? Does it reflect your practice effectively. You might even have people look at it and see if it does. Is it easy to navigate? Sometimes the websites are so difficult to get around you can't even find what you want to find.
Speaker 2:Is the content unique to you? Is there someone dedicated to making sure that it's working effectively? Somebody on your practice? A pro? Somebody needs to be tracking it, making sure it's working and working well. Again, who's managing it? And are you getting reports from your website about the traffic that you are getting? You want to make sure that it's working and getting some results, otherwise it'll need to be changed. Is it updated with so many leaves, as I mentioned, or when you're inviting a new person to come on board and that might even be a new doctor? Or have you added a new treatment mix? Have you added a new treatment technology or system to your practice? Have you added some technology? Great opportunities for a lot of internal marketing when you either add somebody to your team or when you may add a piece of equipment. A wonderful, you have a new laser you have whatever it may be.
Speaker 2:You want to market that and let people know that you are on the cutting edge and then when they come to you. It's going to be a great experience, and remember this also, that a person needs that five to seven. There's the magical numbers. Five to seven touches and you want your website to be one and or lead people to other things. You might have videos on there. You might have a video of a testimonial. You'll have written testimonials. You'll have a lot of ways to let people know not only who you are, but what you do and why. What you do is good, it's relevant, it's important, and that this is the place to come for your dental care. That's what I want.
Speaker 2:So, as I said earlier, the number one barrier to people accepting treatment is money. So on my website, I would face that head on. I would say we offer excellent methods of financing right here in our practice. You don't need to worry about that. Come, let us share with you the way we're going to help the financing of your dentistry be comfortable. I want that message in everything that I could possibly do.
Speaker 2:Moving on on the internal marketing, going back just a moment about your team, and I mentioned and trust me, I am very aware, not just across the country, the US, but across the world getting and keeping team members is more difficult than ever before. So we just have to do a better job of it. We have to have a place. Just like you're trying to attract patients that will come to you and stay with you, we're going to do the same thing for team members, because people have choices and people want to come to a practice where they can have a career, where they're going to be respected, appreciated, they're going to have a chance to grow and develop and learn and they want to be engaged. They want to be an important enough part of the practice. They feel like they're making a difference, and those are some of the driving forces of the workplace today. So ask yourselves have I created an environment where that's happening?
Speaker 2:A lot of times, employers think that money is the greatest driving force of people applying for a job or staying in it, and it's not. It's being appreciated. That's the number one desire. Now, it doesn't mean that money isn't important. Of course it is. You've got to put food on the table and gas in the car or plug in our electric car or whatever we're doing, but people will leave a practice of not feeling respected or appreciated long before they'll leave a practice to make a dollar more down the street. So bear that in mind.
Speaker 2:And I mentioned the new patient phone call. That takes work, it takes training For a while. We're doing some with the permission of the doctors, doing pre-recorded first patient, new patient phone calls, again, when somebody would ask us to do that and we asked the doctors to always let the team know that that would be happening, and so we had a shocking this is shocking, but it's true by the time they finished that new patient phone call we did Hundreds of these Not once, not once, had the person answering the phone in the dental practice ever asked for the patient's name. It's like what? But it's true. I'm like, oh my God, so little work on the new patient phone call that that would be critical.
Speaker 2:We like for you to send welcome information to a patient, because what we're trying to do is when they call and we get them scheduled for an appointment, what we don't want is for them to break the appointment or not show up. So send them some information, send them to your website if they haven't already been, but also send them digitally. You can do hard copy if you want to, but digitally send them some patient information sheet, the health history forms, some wonderful maybe a brochure about your practice. Again, connect, connect, connect. What you don't want is for people to fall through the cracks and be a no-show. That's the worst thing. And if you're scheduling a really quality new patient experience, you're probably scheduling an hour, hour and a half, however long, and you don't want those openings or those last minute voids in the schedule. So, again, all of this will help tie the patient to you. We like to do a smile evaluation for a patient where we just have several 10 questions. Very easy. You can either send it to them before they come or have them fill it out when they get there, just asking them what they're looking for for their smile, for their mouth, their teeth and their smile, and give patients a chance to think that through and then be very careful about responding to that and making sure we're listening carefully and integrating that into the proposal we're offering to the patient.
Speaker 2:Pay attention to your office decor. That's a part of internal marketing. Is it welcoming, is it clean, is it neat, is it fresh, is it current? Is it always kept pristine, including the patient restroom and so on and so forth? Are you offering toothbrushes and toothpaste and things for them to take home with your. Those seem like things we've been doing for a million years. They're still good Chapstick and so on with your logo.
Speaker 2:You want your logo appearing everywhere and I think one of the most important things that you will ever do in your practice and I hope most practices are doing this, and that is use your photography. Take photography on the new patient and that will be your photography. Take photography on the new patient and that will be your baseline. And we use the AACD. We recommend that those photographs recommended by the AACD and if you or members of your team are not great at taking photographs, get a pro to help you learn how to take those photographs, and that'll be your baseline with your patients. And then also, with permission from your patients, you can show some befores and afters in your social media, which is the critical part of marketing today the social media. So you're building all of this and then putting out into the world through various social media, whether it's Facebook or X or Instagram or whatever you're using or all the above.
Speaker 2:You want to be constantly three to five times a week posting something to your patient family or to the universe, as it were, and letting people know what you're doing, and about 80% should be things about your community, things that are happening in dentistry, some fun things. We just did a fun run to raise money for breast cancer awareness, those kinds of things, awareness, you know, those kinds of things. And about 20% specific promotion of a dental procedure tooth whitening, veneers, whatever it may be, whatever, whatever it is you're doing, whatever you want to promote. And remember, just because you promote something once doesn't mean the world has gotten it. Don't forget to promote patient financing as well. Look at society, look what's going on in the world and respond to that. So financing is one of the one of those things.
Speaker 3:Kathy, can I jump in here real quick? You bet please, because I have a bunch of things I could. I want to. You just blew my mind. So on the Jameson Ranch they have the six legged milk stool, but you told me about the three legged milk stool. So we have systems obviously important, marketing important and it's vast. But how does a doctor have confidence in delivering those procedures and then feel comfortable marketing and putting him or herself out there and their team out there? We know the team evaluates the doctor's abilities. We know that. We know if the team doesn't think they're working for a great doctor, they're not going to sell it.
Speaker 3:And we know that the doctor's not going to prep and pray. And I'm sort of going to segue into the pack, because we're talking about marketing and we're talking about systems and we're talking about systems and we're talking about putting it out there and being on the cutting edge. But what does the doctor need to be able to do to be able to be sure he or she can deliver those procedures competently?
Speaker 2:Well, it's such a good point and you and I and Dr Meece, we all believe in continuing education. I'm going to tell you something that John said. John went to Creighton University Fabulous, fabulous dental school. They had done so much clinical dentistry before they graduated. It was like more than most schools in the United States. He had a great, great experience.
Speaker 2:But when he made a commitment, after he got out into the world and had his practice out of dental school and was out practicing, he then went through a continuum, a continuum of postgraduate dentistry on comprehensive restorative and then went into multiple, multiple continuums on aesthetic dentistry, because he decided that's the kind of dentistry I want to do. I want to do comprehensive restorative and aesthetics and I want to have the best hygiene program on the face of the earth. So he constantly invested time, money, energy and effort into continuing education For 30 years of practice. I mean he's done that and he will never stop learning because dentistry evolves constantly. So the person who thinks they know all there is to know about marketing, management or clinical dentistry, they're already on their way out. So I agree with you when you go to those classes, then what John would do, he would come back and he would then teach his team. We would have and some people might think this sounds awful, it's not His team loved it. He would come back and teach his team or take his team with him to the continuums, because we wanted two things all of us to be excellent at what we things and I wasn't about.
Speaker 2:Do you think I really need this? Is he any good at this? What will happen? And I'm able to pull out my book and show them befores and afters. And you're right, if the team isn't confident in the doctor's clinical dentistry, number one, the doctor shouldn't be doing that and number two, they won't promote it. They won't promote it and probably before long they'll be gone. I don't know if I answered your question. I hope I did. It's a very good question. The day that somebody stops learning is the day they need to put their handpiece down. I mean, it's over.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's been it's since we had COVID. Covid was a big another paradigm shift in the way people get dentistry and there was kind of an excuse to it too. You know, we've taught for 30 years together, kathy, and we know that everyone gets excited about taking postgraduate education, but when it comes time to give up that weekend or give up that Friday, you go, oh, I'll do it next year. I really want to do it, but I'll do it next year. But I think now I feel now with my experience and looking at what's happening in the business of dentistry, you can no longer afford to procrastinate on education. There's programs like the PAC that offer scholarships for doctors, high-level access to top world-class clinicians and management consultants like yourself, and still we're having resistance to the. I believe. What is the understanding of the importance of that and how that can be a life changer? Literally, I will say that every one of our doctors at the lab who has a significant lab bill which reflects greatly on the volume of their practice every month, about 90% come from postgraduate educational references, programs that we've been involved in that are doing great dentistry, the kind of dentistry they want to do. But we're having a challenge. We have a challenge here.
Speaker 3:Since COVID, the younger doctors coming out want a little more freedom. They want to work for a salary as opposed to necessarily working. I'm speaking generally here, but we're not seeing the dentist wanting to commit the way we had to. We had to learn, and now I want a salary, I want to come in and do my dentistry and I think they want to learn, but I think there's a rift there and so I don't know. How do you feel about that? Do you see that? I do see that.
Speaker 2:I do see that and you make so many good points People want their free time. They want to work a minimal amount of time and have more equal amount of free time, and so if somebody's worked three or four days in a week but then now is going to go for three or four days to continue education program and invest, you know, time and money and all that, there's less of a desire. I think that one point in time it was just a known. You went to CE and there's still requirements for that, of course. But it was exciting to look at new things to do and I still work with a lot of young doctors who still they're going back and studying implants or they're studying aesthetics, continuing to study aesthetics or a lot of the things they just don't get totally and completely in the dental schools, although the dental schools are coming around a lot and doing more and more of that too, which is great. But I think you just have to, like we talked about on the website, everything has to be about what's in this for you. And so in the continuing education realm, same thing is what's in this for you, like if somebody becomes involved with Jameson Management and if your doctors and whoever's listening is interested. They can find out about us through info at jmsncom, jameson, jmsncom, and you can go in and see a lot of the things that we offer, because we've changed too.
Speaker 2:We still do the in-office consulting, like you have in-lab or in-person continuum. We also offer virtual coaching because some people don't want to leave, they don't want to get on a plane, they don't want to fly away for three or four days. So we do virtual coaching, and that's we had already been, we'd already started doing that before COVID, but boy were we glad we already had that module, those modules, because we have modules on all the 25 systems of the practice. So somebody can get one or all those modules and then, as a team, watch it, and then, if they want to have a conversation with a coach to help them implement that, they can, and then. So we have a program called Grow G-R-O-W Grow, and it's just what I said. It's all the 25 major management and marketing systems where people can learn where they are. People can learn where they are, and so I think CE as a whole has actually gone into different realms, so to speak, of teaching in different ways.
Speaker 2:However, you're going to do implants or you're going to do aesthetics or something, and you and I both know this. I've seen magic. I've seen, and I'm going to use an example of an aesthetic program. So doctors come and they have a patient and they're doing an aesthetic case, and then I've seen and it looks good, and then I've seen a master clinician come in and contour or help them learn how to contour that even ever so slightly, and it's like magic. It's. The difference is night and day, and so do I think I can learn from somebody that's done this a little bit more than me.
Speaker 2:Yes, so there's nothing that really will ever, ever beat the hands-on experience, but it can be supplemented with virtual or other modalities, there's no question. And so I think CE has evolved to meet the needs, just like I said, the WIFM, the needs of people out there. And so when you're speaking to practitioners who maybe don't want to travel or don't want to leave their families, or just they want their free time or whatever it has to all be about, what is it? Are you looking for? What are you looking for? What do you want and are we providing that service and, if so, in what way and how will this benefit you? More concrete, a continuing education program can be in terms of the end results, I think the better, the better response they will have.
Speaker 3:Does that make sense. Kathy, that's great. Yeah, Mike, one of my questions is does Jameson offer and how important do you think it is for associates to get from consultation, regardless of it being a dental practice consultation? In other words, I'm a new doctor, I'm trying to figure out where I want to go. How do I get consultation? How important is that?
Speaker 2:It's very important because, first of all, a doctor just coming out of school, let's say, or somebody maybe who's been, whatever situation they've been in, they want to change. It's helping them and I'm a certified life coach, so I do this all the time. But help people. What is it that you want? Sometimes you just have to peel the layers of the onion because somebody's never really thought about that or gotten clear on that or had anybody help them and support them in really getting down deep into the gut and say what is it that you want? This is your life's career If you are going to find joy here. Joy, satisfaction, fulfillment, financial security. What do you want? What brings you joy? And I think that's my own personal coach says the purpose of life is joy. So I want people to come into the practice every day with joy it doesn't mean there's not going to be some challenges now and then but with joy by seeing the difference they can make in the lives of people. But then, once they come to terms with their own mission and their own, again, mission is a statement of purpose who you are, what you want to do and how you want to do it, supported by the values that are imperative to you and I encourage doctors, young doctors or associate doctors to not compromise that, because I said there's some place out there that will fit for you. There is, there is. Don't just go to the first place and don't just go to the place that maybe offers more money, because after a while you might make a little bit more here than here. But if you're not finding joy, so what? But if you're not finding joy, so what? And if they do well where they are, because they are fulfilled and satisfied and respected and appreciated and allowed to grow and allowed to go to CE courses like yours and encouraged. You know John sends all of his associates to CE because he wanted them to have the same kind of experiences he had. He says he could teach them, but he wanted to send them to pros, to the pro educators, and they could come back. They would come back enthusiastic, committed, better dentists and better people.
Speaker 2:And so again, when you're looking at budgeting budget, CE into your budget. About 46% of a budget needs to be internal and external marketing, but a percentage of your budget two to three percent should be CE. Because, as I said earlier, there's never a day when CE stops. There's never a day when learning stops, and so hopefully that can be instilled into the young doctor as well, where, if they're going to give up a weekend, a quarter or whatever it may be, it's worth it. And again, if they really absorb themselves in what they're learning and they take that back to the practice, there will be financial reward for this too Personal fulfillment reward and financial reward. So it's all good. It's all good it's have people think this is an investment I'm making in myself, an investment I'm making in my team, an investment I'm making in my patients, but it's also then, ultimately, an investment they're making in their family. So does that make sense? Does that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense. And you know what, as I think, as I listened to everything, I've got lots of notes here. But the you know, I think we're all on the same page, it's just that you say it a lot better. You know, one of the things I always tell the young doctors is that if you're not working towards your dream, you're probably helping somebody else work towards theirs, right? So you know that.
Speaker 1:And that's one of the things that frustrates me is I meet so many of the young docs today that are just working, as you mentioned, just kind of working for a paycheck, but they're not really working towards any end goal, whereas when we got a dental school decades ago, we kind of have an idea of the kind of practice we wanted to develop, and then we try to develop that practice that when we went to work every day, we felt really good about what we were doing. So I hope a lot of the young doctors take what you just said to heart and they actually think about what they're trying to build and they spend the next 20 years, 30 years building towards that. So I think that's really important.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 1:One of the things I want to say is I'm glad we're recording this because, as I mentioned, you had a lot of great ideas and we appreciate you, so I hope you know that this information I hope everyone who's listened to this sees the value of it, because I certainly do, and I want to make sure that you know we can have you back at some, because I think we could go on for another eight hours. Maybe we can put a course together.
Speaker 2:Probably so yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but a couple of the takeaways is number one you mentioned before the management is part of the marketing, or vice versa. So go back to your practice and look at the systems, see what systems you have in place or what you don't have in place, what you need to put in place and systems you have in place or what you don't have in place. What you need to put in place and I think you're absolutely right, you know kind of this. We can do our diagnosis, our exam, our diagnosis, tell the patients what they need and then when they go to the front, hopefully they can get scheduled and payment arrangements can be made, and just want to make sure that that system is kind of seamless and everybody's on the same page. And I think one of the big things about that is you know, when you use a consulting firm like yours is you'll take the time to train your team to be able to do this in an effective way, whereas a lot of us you know our front desk person we lose, so we just hire somebody else and we stick them in that seat, but we never have the time to train them and so the effectiveness drops off. So you want to make sure. Number one your systems are in place, I think.
Speaker 1:Number two you know I asked about marketing, but I think everything that you mentioned is part of marketing. So you said as soon as we make contact with the patient, we should connect, connect, connect. And I think that's. You know, today, how many times do we see a patient on the schedule? They could be a new patient or existing patient and then they just don't show up. You know, today we see a lot more of that than we did 10 or 20 years ago and I think that's one of the important reasons to stay kind of in their mind so they don't forget about us.
Speaker 1:And then I think the third point I think that you made out of the many that you made is just that we have to make sure that we're learning more. We have to increase the value we can offer our patients. It keeps our patients excited about coming back to our practice when they know that we're improving our skills. And if we get to be known as that veneer doctor or the implant doctor in our community, then we're going to get referrals and that's going to be a great source of marketing for us. So those are just some of the key points that I take away.
Speaker 1:But I mean, you gave us about 25, I think, and no, I hope we can have you back in the not too far future, and I just want to say thank you very much and again I want to just give you a shout out that people want to learn more about Jameson Management wwwjamesonmanagementcom. They can go to the website there or, as you mentioned, they can go to info I-N-F-O at jmsncom and learn more about the services that you offer, which now you have stood the test of time, been around for decades, and so we would encourage people that wanna grow their practices to actually check Jamison management out. Thank you, Garrett.
Speaker 3:Any closing words for me. No, kathy. Well, what can I say, kathy? I think it's been 30 years about.
Speaker 2:I think so we've known each other for a while Maybe 20, I don't know.
Speaker 3:It's been a long time and you've had a big impact positive impact on my life and my career. You're always there when I need help in my life coaching. Kathy's always available, picks up the phone Just a beautiful woman Phenomenal psychologist, I guess, I should say, because you really know what you're doing. But, kathy, you've been a great friend and today is fantastic. I just there's so much change happening in dentistry right now. There's so many questions that all of our doctors have, from the doctors that are thinking about transitioning, to new doctors coming in, to the whole DSO world, to the insurance world. I think you need to talk to somebody who really can give you good, simple, concise answers, and I really know that you're the person for that. It's been so wonderful having you today, great teaching with you all these years, and we're going to do this again really soon because we have another chapter we need to talk about. So, kathy, thank you so much and give Big John our love.
Speaker 2:I will, and everybody in the family. We appreciate it so much. Thank you, thanks to both of you and to all of your listeners and your fellow students, and I wish only the best for all of you.
Speaker 1:All right, well, thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Thanks, talk to you soon.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:Bye.