Creating // Consumers

What does it mean to create in a world designed for consumption?

Our creativity is purest when we trust ourselves enough to act before the idea fades. In this episode we explore with Camael the link between self-beliefs, authenticity, and creative execution - and ask what it means to create in a world designed for consumption...

Transcript

Camael, who is a multi-faced artist and creative visionary and I think the conclusion of what we're basically speaking about

is that we are in this war of attention and focus and we're basically talking about how to leverage through that and to be

authentic in a world that is drowning with focus being dissipated in essentially bringing a role. Yeah.

and these molds that we think we need to fit in in order to represent ourselves online in a certain way. So I specialize in

editorial photography that I would say has an organic elemental mythical and spiritual element to it and I also create my

own cinematic films, skits, little mini music videos and I create a lot of talking content for TikTok especially. I'm all around

quite a creative person and just channeling that through the visuals as much as I can.

I mean, I want to talk about how we even met. We met through threads, can I just say? Yeah. And how did we even start,

like, how did we even get talking?

So you released a post saying that you were looking for people to join on your podcast. Yeah. And I was like, sweet, she

seems cool. I'll dive into that. You had a questionnaire.

Yeah, from there I did a questionnaire and then I made you fill out, I mean people that said they were interested, I sent a

guest request and then we hopped on a call, spoke for like an hour, realised, okay, there's actually a lot to talk about. I

thought we were going to have like a 15 minute call.

Yeah, we went deep right off the bat.

And then I see that we've been on the phone for an hour and I think I don't remember who was like We need to wrap it up.

But anyway after that I was like I have to have you as a guest So anyway now you're here, and I'm already happy that you

are here So you're someone who needs to utilize your creativity in order to gain success in your career So I want to ask you

what does that process look like for you? How do you go from an idea onto a finished outcome?

Yeah, it's even more than career now. It's feels like a soulful necessity. Yeah, I'm sure you get like there's a part of me that

is that needs to come out and needs to be expressed and I can't do anything other than create. It feels like at this point,

whether that is creating a new brand, a business, creating a little shoot, an editorial, creating a skit. But my process, is that

the question? Yeah, yeah. It feels like I have very little control over the process, really. Like the idea will come and then I

almost become possessed by the idea. And the best pieces that I've created that feel most aligned to what I am becoming

and what I am at the moment are the ones that are like instant downloads. And then I just chase it spontaneously. And then

something happens and something is created and I don't even anticipate that. And I'm like, oh, I didn't know I could actually

do that. Oh, shit, that's cool.

Sorry, what do you mean by downloads?

It, like, comes in, like. Right.

So give me like an example. Is it with your videography is it with your photography aspect? Yeah

So to give an example, there's a video created I created called Vibing and it's me dancing in a church and two glass beams.

If anyone has heard of glass beams, it's like kind of psychedelic, rocky from Australia, really awesome band. But I walk into

this church, I kick off my shoes, take my socks off and I just start dancing around the church. And that came to me as I just

had a meeting with a client and scored like an 800 pound client and I was really struggling financially at the time. Like, yeah,

unable to like struggling to buy food, afford rent, all that stuff. But I got this client and it was a breakthrough moment. I was

like, I've been waiting for this. And I was driving home, sun was shining, windows down, glass beams are blasting on my hell

yeah, this is fucking great. And then the idea of me dancing and vibing to the song came up and I immediately drove to this

church that was kind of abandoned in the countryside, overgrown. And I just went in there and I just filmed. And then I

filmed me dancing and vibing in my celebration moment. And that was what created. And I was like, I didn't even know that

was a part of me. And that is one of my favorite things I've ever created, you know.

And that's so interesting because I feel like everyone has different definitions to what creativity means to them and there's

an essential nature and purpose to it and that is that it helps us grow. So I feel like in that moment, you felt some level of

growth and translated that into another creative form.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Like my A Day on the Wolf video as well, Emergence, which is the beginning of a whole series,

that came after a really challenging chatter of my life where I felt like I was just getting beaten and dragged for a long time.

And I had this idea in my mind of me being like, like scratched up, covered in dirt, almost like a fallen in battle, and then like

pulling myself and dragging myself through a battlefield. And went straight to my mom. Mom did the makeup for me. And

then I went to this hillside that was like an hour away. And then I just set up and it was raining and I just filmed myself

pulling myself out of the dirt. And then as I was pulling myself out of the dirt, the clouds parted and the sun came out and I

felt this like euphoric bliss. And my heart just opened up and I was able to capture that on camera where I was like pulled

myself up out of the dirt when it was raining and I stepped towards the light and I could feel the light again for the first time.

And it was so symbolic to what I was going through. And I didn't even intend for that to come out that way. It was as soon as

the clouds parted and then I realized what the purpose and the point of that video was. And that's what I mean by

downloads. Like I get this download, this idea, this vision. There's an image in my mind or a collection of images. And then I

just have to go and create it now before it goes.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I spoke about this in the last episode and with my previous guest when we said that any idea not

written down is a lost idea. So it's very much similar to that. But I would take that a step farther with you and say that you're

very expressive character. So going from that, what is your relationship with your creativity?

So that's something that I feel like I've only really come into over the past few years. I've been creative for quite a while, I've

been pursuing the photography side of things for the past eight years, but I never considered myself as a creative or an

artist. It's taught me a lot about who I want to be and who I am becoming. I think it's been an incredible tool for self-

reflection, showing me parts of myself that I didn't even pour myself out of the dirt and I feel the presence of the light and

realizing, oh, that's exactly what I have been going through. And now I see myself unconsciously expressing that in the art

and seeing this direct reflection through what I'm creating. It's taught me a lot about archetypes and spirituality and energy

and this creative force that moves through all of us that you're almost in service to, and you don't have a lot of control, or I

would say maybe you don't have any control a lot of the time.

Yeah, I don't think we have any control of that. I think we are here to just follow what we feel intuitively resonates with us.

And if we don't, we just feel a huge sense of like disalignment. But definitely what has actually like taught you about yourself

that you didn't know so much before?

I'm a lot cooler than I realized.

You look cool.

Yeah, that's one thing like I was just seeing like seeing myself

I feel the same, like I do kind of see that in a way.

Yeah, right? You're like, oh shit, this is actually pretty dope. Like, I'm down bad for my own art, you know, like, what I create.

And that's helped me realize that, oh shit, I've like, I can be confident and I can trust myself and I can be myself because it's

like, myself is actually proving to be pretty wavy. And I like that.

I'm quite like, I mean, I'm quite similar, but also different. I think when I started this podcast, it showed me that I'm a bit of

a, I don't want to say nique, but it, it did highlight like my nique side to things. But then when I started music, it reflected my

cool side. And then like, I don't know, March kind of together.

Yeah, you discover so much of yourself through the creation of Krena and I think it is because there's all this unconscious

material that comes up when you're creating like the good, the bad and the ugly, like all of and the beautiful, all of this stuff

comes out and it's there's almost like Embrace it. Yeah. And then you have reverence for yourself in many ways. I feel like

that's it's really taught me a lot about just loving myself and appreciating myself and trusting myself and knowing that like

you can trust yourself. Yeah. And you know what you're doing, even though you think you don't know and you doubt

yourself, you do know and you can rest in that and it's okay.

I'm just thinking back to when you said that you take such an intuitive approach to your work, what you just mentioned is a

 intuitive like knowing that what you're doing is right because you just feel like it is.

in that sense. Do you know your astrology? Sorry. Me. Yeah. Like your moon, your sun rising. Do you know your body? I know

I'm a lead.

B-B-R-A

Okay.

I'll actually be able to tell you this. Yeah, I mean... Do you know Snapchat? Snapchat has this setting where you can actually

know... Okay, so I'm... My son's in Libra. My moon's in Libra. Rising cancer.

Born on a Libra new moon. What does that mean? Remember the gift of diplomacy we were talking about earlier.

Can I be so real? There's part of me that like finds astrology very false leading.

Yeah. And you are correct to think so because pop astrology, modern astrology is white washed ancient astrology. Like it

barely scratches the surface of what like Socrates and Plato and Hermetica, what they were studying and what they were

leading. It's a whole different philosophy when you actually start getting into the ancient roots of it, like the Hellenistic roots.

And even when you start studying the more modern schools, like evolutionary, that dive more into like the deeper meaning

of the archetypal planets.

So I'm someone that really actually does not believe in astrology. Okay. So try to convince me to believe.

Okay, so um This world and this reality is created by archetypes and archetypes are like the building blocks Like there are

certain like the mother is an archetype the father is an archetype masculine is archetype feminine is an archetype

mythology and certain like gods like Zeus is an archetype Prometheus archetype and the the fool or the magician and these

are archetypes and they they act as these The best way to describe them is building blocks like they everything in our

reality is an expression of these different kinds of archetypes And I think the misconception that we have of astrology is that

these there's these planets that are controlling us or influencing us But that's not the case. It's reflective. It's mirroring and

They represent certain archetypes the zodiac signs and the planets represent archetypal forms and when they come

together they create specific combinations or delineations and when those delineations Filter down then we see them as a

thought pattern. We see them as a dream. We see them as a Misfortune or a circumstance has just happened or some

things that just happen out of the blue So we know that when we have full moons There's an impact on people mentally for

the most part and emotionally we know that like kids are a bit more agitated or Bit more active in school. We know that

crime rates go up on full moons We know that there's more ambulances and emergency services that go on on full moons

And we know it controls the tides and water and we have water So they're obviously there's some kind of correlation

between the moon itself and us But then I would extend that to all the other planets when you start looking historically You

can start to see how there's a correlation between certain planetary movements and certain historical events So when

Saturn which is considered the planet of limitation and constriction when that enters into Aquarius which is the sign of

freedom of collectivity of Decentralized way of being where we can be more free and decide for ourselves as a society in a

collective as soon as that happens We go into a lockdown. So Saturn the planet of restriction limitation It's Aquarius all of us

all of our freedom is restricted and limited and then there's a Constant square that's happening between Saturn and Uranus

and then we go out of lockdown Back in to lockdown out of lockdown and back into lockdown and then our lockdown again

And then they finally let loose and we're out of lockdown. Finally

But what I don't understand is let's say, let's say two people born on the other side, like one person is born in Australia, one

person born in UK, are born in the exact same time, exact same minute, exact same second, does that mean they're going

to be the exact same person?

all because the archetypes can express themselves in a million different variations and that's why they can't prove it is

because there'll be one way in which mercury can show up as a thought process or it can show up as our vehicle you know

so then you can't measure it because it can come out in so many different ways but when you start to just pay attention to

certain aspects or transits then you can start seeing how they are showing up and manifesting in a variety of ways.

But that's why I don't really believe in that stuff because, as you say, just because two people want the exact same second

of that time frame, it doesn't mean that they can be the same person because they can translate that identity in whatever

way they want.

But there'll be certain overarching themes, archetypal themes that they'll be embodying. And that will be similar. Like, um, if

they both are, if they both have the same moon, for example, so they say they're both, uh, Pisces moons, then both most

likely to be quite sensitive.

But I could argue that with everyone. Yeah. That's odd.

could be, and that's a valid, very valid argument, but they could be more expressive with their emotion, they could be more,

it's difficult to explain because you have to take into account like all the aspects that the moon is making simultaneously. So

if the moon's making a harsh aspect they could be emotionally closed off or they could be emotionally open and you could

say that for everybody, right? But there'll be certain ways in which that heart and that emotion will close up and those are

the ways that we are more looking for. It's like, okay, they're going to close up specifically around fathers or men related to

topics of like career and business. So then you start looking for like deeper and deeper nuances in the similarities. It's a form

of psychoanalysis and that's why I say it's a process of self-reflection because it's always mirroring back to what the soul is

experiencing. And then what's happening collectively right now is like the collective soul is experiencing a collective theme.

So like for example, last time Pluto was in Aquarius and Neptune was in Aries, which has happened now as of the past year,

they've both been in those signs, there was like the American Revolutionary War and the American Civil War. So those two

planets are in the same signs which then are correlating to another kind of like upheaval in America, which I'm not saying

they're going to plunge into a war, we have no archetypal theme that's playing out.

Hmm. I think astrology is good in order to like, if someone said to me, Oh, you're like rising is in cancer, cancer. This means

that you're very like spontaneous, great character. I think that serves a purpose in order of making people believe that

about themselves and then them acting on it, but I'm not sold on it. That's the thing. I'm not sold on astrology and I get

there's a lot of theory about it and that's great, but personally, I am not sold at all.

And it honestly doesn't matter because whether it's true or not, what matters is how it impacts you and influences you.

Yeah, I think it's a great influence. It's almost like a hypnosis, you know, when people go and get their tarot card readings,

and this person basically feeds them, usually this amazing news of, oh, something great's about to happen. The person then

leaves there with like a great mindset, and then basically manifest something good. But I don't think that's because of

astrology.

Yeah, that's the thing, it could be complete utter bullshit.

I think it is. I genuinely think it is. I'm not sold. I've tried convincing myself that I'm not sold at all. It's so generic. It's so

broad. It can mean a million different things, which is what you've basically explained to me. And I think it serves the

purpose of trying to, of not trying, of successfully convincing people amazing stuff. And I think that's what the world needs. I

think the world needs hope. And I think the world needs motivation. And I think astrology, that's its purpose. I think it

highlights great human qualities, but I don't think it means anything.

And you could say the same for any kind of religion, any other esoteric science, any kind of form of divination, belief system

or spirituality, any of it is like false and true simultaneously. And I think we have to hold the paradox of those things that

I think the difference though with like, if we're talking about like religion, it's more of like a community.

Mm, same with astrology though.

I guess so, yeah, but there aren't places, I mean, there aren't like astrology churches that people go to. Am I right? I feel like

with religion there's genuinely a whole, I mean, I guess you could say that was astrology, but there is like a whole lifestyle

and a whole community surrounded by it. And that's the other purpose that religion serves is to create this amazing

community. So I want to go back to what I was actually about to speak about, and it's you taking a very intuitive approach

with your work. And that idea makes me want to talk about our consciousness, more so about the fact that I believe our

creativity lies in our subconscious mind. And I think our problem today is that we don't allow ourselves to free ourselves into

just trusting whatever we're doing. I think a lot of us hold a tight grip with what we're doing, and we're very conscious about

it. And the more conscious we are, the more restricted we are, because that's not where our creativity lies. Whereas if we

just let ourselves do whatever we want, trust our intuition in the way that you basically said that you do, then a lot more

ideas come in flowing and they're more in tune to who we are.

Um, yeah, like I said, I don't know what I'm doing half the time. I almost always, I like, I've just, I'm just following threads and

that's, some are louder than others. Some come in immediately. Um, when I'm shooting editorial shoots, I love it. Cause it's

like, it's like I'm catching a scent in the air and I can like, I can, my body just starts to move itself towards a position and I

can feel like, okay, I, I could smell it. Where is it? It's somewhere here. There's some kind of like entrance. And then I'm

purely just feeling at that point, just feeling. And then I find the little spot and then I can like click away. And then I start to

find that little moment and that I can't rationalize, you know, I, there's a certain level of structure in terms of, okay, think of

composition and stuff like that. But the, the understanding of composition and framing is actually what helps me find the

scent in a sense. Um, but so much of it is just body and feeling and what feels right and feels good and it feels really right

and good for me in that moment. That's it. That's all I wanted. I wanted that little moment of like, um, bliss, like a little taste

of like, Oh, there we go. That's, I felt connected to that.

But sometimes are you scared to follow your intuition because you don't know where you're going or does it all come to you

naturally?

It's a bit, yeah, you know what, I think it is, I'm a highly intuitive person. I always have been, and, um, that's not to say that I

don't have a very like loud rational mind a lot of the time cause I do, but I think it's easy for me to trust my intuition because

it's always proved more right than my mind has. So, and perhaps that's me gathering enough data over time to be able to

surrender to it easier.

But is that because you feel like a part of yourself is reflected in that, like is reflected in your work?

I think it's because it always leads to some sense of...

understanding.

Yeah and satisfaction and connection and unity. Yeah. Unlike a more like long-term vision, intuitively it's hard because I

have all these doubts of like what if this doesn't bring in the money that I need and like what if I end up being really

unsecure and unstable and like then long-term it's difficult to follow the intuition but it's almost impossible for me to ignore

it now. It's too loud.

And what is that exactly?

I don't know.

So what if, let's say, let's say you wake up tomorrow. What is the fast thing you're following?

a routine. Yeah. But the routine is, is kind of a system I have in place in order to help me stay in flow and focused. Um, but

it's usually always like, okay, I'm going to wake up. I'm going to stretch, make a coffee journal, collect my thoughts and then

how I feel and what needs to be done will dictate what happens.

I want to talk about holistic and interconnected living. This topic that we talked about where everything is basically

connected. Do you believe that? Well, we spoke about it on the phone and it really interested me. I don't know enough about

it, but I think that everything should be connected in a way in order to gain some kind of success. I think we talked about

being this polymath and that with like the new generation that is trying or successfully achieving this new polymath of we're

not doing one thing and doing it right. We're doing numerous things and we're connecting it to be this one thing. And that's

like the way forward.

Hmm

That's how I see everything's connected, but I feel like from where we were talking about it in the past, that can mean

something completely different.

When I say I think everything is connected, that is part of it for sure, but I'm also seeing the connection between how we're

feeling and the actions that we take and then the karma that happens and the life that is created and the impact that that

has on the people around us and the relationships that we have and how that's impacted and then how our physical health

and wellbeing is impacted from those things and then thus how the world, the natural environment starts to get impacted by

the way that we're engaging with ourself.

I mean, I definitely, sorry. I mean, I definitely think that we need to be personally secure in ourselves before we can actually

compliment anyone else. I think if we're not doing, if we're not doing the things that we want to be doing, then how can we

appear as this person that we want to be? And then how can we compliment the people around us? So I think we definitely

attract the state that we are in. And if we're not doing the things that we want to do, how can we attract the things that we

want?

Mm, exactly. Exactly. Like the, how we, the kind of thought processes that we have are linked to how dysregulated our

nervous system is or like how fast our breathing is. And if we can slow and control the breathing down, then our thoughts

follow. And then that will also dictate the actions that we take based on the, how we are feeling. So then I believe that

everything is a reflection in a mirror. You know, I believe that life is a,

Noah.

Yeah, as within so of out.

Yeah, I think so too. I actually say that a lot.

And so then I think everything is connected. I think like the state of your kitchen is going to be a direct correlation to this

area of your life that's manifesting in a poor way, you know? Yeah. And I think like the fact that you haven't been touching

the ground in a while is then causing a backlink to these negative things happening in your life over here.

What do you mean by touching the ground?

like just being grounded and being able to like feel the earth on your feet receiving the electrons from the earth which are

helping neutralize the free radicals in the body which then end up becoming cancer or other autoimmune or degenerate

diseases of some kind or that will even be directly affecting your mental health which is also affecting a different action but

you're unaware of it because you haven't done it in so long you know i have

I haven't walked barefooted. Actually, I did when I was away on holiday in a hot country, but I don't walk barefooted that

much. Is that something?

you would recommend? A hundred percent I would recommend it like a thousand and ten percent and I think it's no surprise

that like most of our society doesn't walk barefoot and we are so disconnected from nature for the most part. You know what

I mean? Like we're not... I do!

But, at the same time, when you're in a city that everything's so dirty, why would you want to-

No, you can't. It's way harder in a city, but then that's why like when you're in the city, there's a completely different, like I

get drained being in the city because I'm so used to being in nature and I spend almost most of my time out in nature. And

when I'm in the city, I can really feel it. I could feel the heaviness, the contraction, I can feel the mental and emotional

pollution. And like some people are acclimatized and accustomed to that and there's no judgment over any lifestyle in the

city. But I just can tell the contrast much clearer.

You know my aunt actually owns these patches that she puts on her foot like up here every night before she goes to sleep

and she told me that every, she loves it because every morning she wakes up and she feels so like cleansed and she feels it,

she says she feels it from her nose, it's kind of like minty and like fresh, she doesn't know if anything happens or if anything

is actually like detoxifying her but she feels very, I guess, cleansed and very detoxified.

It's the same with my mom. You can get these grounding sheets and they're basically like a bed sheet that you plug into the

wall and it basically connects to the earth so the excessive electromagnetism basically runs out into the earth and grounds

and then my mom would wake up with significantly less inflammation in her knees and in her wrists and you can check out

the grounding websites of these grounding sheets and what like bed sheets bed sheets pillowcases you can even get floor

mats for your desk and like mouse pads yeah

I know someone that has these mat, like you know a yoga mat? So my friend owns this yoga mat and you actually need to

plug it in. There's a plug that comes with it and she says that it has the same, I don't actually know, like energy of what the

ground would have.

Exactly. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

But how does that work? Because surely when you're plugging in a mat to a plug and it's wide to electricity, that's electricity

and then the ground is just like soil.

Well, there's three plugs. The two bottom ones are where the electricity comes in, and the top one is the neutralizing one.

Basically, all of our electricity has rods that go straight into the ground. So if a lightning strike hits one of the power lines,

then excessive energy runs into the ground rather than running into people's homes and burning out the systems.

She didn't know that yeah, so that's really cool

When we plug in the thing, we're basically no electricity is coming in, but excess electricity or energy is going out and going

into the ground. So we're electromagnetic creatures, so we have electricity.

So with this mat, how does that actually...

So the be-

that you own it or anything, but I feel like you- No, no. This is from my understanding. Yeah.

Like, when we are connected to the Earth, or in this case, a map that is connected to the Earth, then excessive energy in our

body is running out of our body into the ground. And because there is like, there's like a neutralizing effect because now it's

like, there's a channel for it to leave and get out of. When we have excessive energy, or there's too much electromagnetism,

then we have, well, I think we have like, within the protons that are neutrons that will like disconnect, and then they become

free radicals. And when those neutrons become free radicals, then they start to cause wreak havoc. But we get free, we get

electrons from the Earth. So then when an atom loses an electron, we can take an electron and replace it. So then we're not,

yeah, like there's not these free radicals that wrecking havoc. That's my understanding of it, but I'm no scientist. Yeah. But I

can tell the difference myself.

So with everything being interconnected, how would you conclude that?

I would say that the more self-awareness that we have, the more present we are, the more aware we are of ourself and of

our world, then we can start to see how reality is constantly communicating to us. And that everything that we're

experiencing is almost like a reflection of who we are and how we are living, how we are thinking, how we are feeling, how

we are behaving. So that's why I say everything is connected. There's like the butterfly effect theory, right? Butterfly on the

other side of the world will flap its wings and it might cause a hurricane on the other side. Or when there's a dust storm in

the Sahara and it flies over through the Gulf of Mexico and it creates a massive algae bloom and that algae bloom becomes

the basis of the marine food web. So there's an intercon, and then that obviously impacts the entire food system, which

includes us. And that affects our whole society and our economy because then if that, if part of the food system collapses,

then most of our system will collapse. So I mean, everything's connected because it is in one way or another, it's all

connected.

And I'm thinking about just, I guess, like compatibility with people. People are changing 24-7, people are changing all the

time. And when one person or two people change and they become incompatible, that is a separate butterfly effect.

Mmm

whether that's like families, friendships, relationships. I think everything is connected in that sense and if someone changes,

then they realign with different things that are connected to them in that state because everything is kind of energy.

Yeah, everything is energy. That's why I love studying permaculture and

Permaculture, what's that?

So this is what feeds into the visions that I was telling you about of the future civilizations that I intend to. Permaculture is

the study of the natural world and following natural patterns to create cohesive systems. So that could apply economically,

politically, but it's mainly focused around, I would say educationally, but organically or horticulturally. So we would, for

example, I set up a company a few years back with two of guys, which was called Guy and Earth, and it was a permaculture

design company where we would take people's degraded farmland and rehabilitate it into self-sufficient food systems. So

then we would create regenerative food forests, or we would take people's gardens, and we would redesign the garden in a

way where it was creating excessive food with as minimal input as possible. So it was a way to help people become more

self-sufficient in a world that felt a bit on edge and uncertain. So people could eat organically, they could eat locally, they

could have food security, but also finding ways to redesign homes and create homes in a way that was self-sufficient, that

were eco-friendly, such as creating little bespoke, cob homes that had their own electricity and captured their own rainwater

and filtered it and used it. And all of the waste from the home would go into some kind of system that would provide

additional gas to the home or be composted for the rest of the food that was growing. So we were finding ways to create

regenerative systems, whether that was on farms or in homes, and it's taking that notion of permaculture where we're

finding a way to work synergistically with the environment by just observing nature and understanding how it operates and

works and mimicking those kind of patterns. And that goes for everything. So we could take the spiderweb and use that as a

way to reconstruct the educational system in a way that interlinked all the different areas of study rather than separating

them into separate boxes and thus disconnecting them from the possibility of them speaking of the same thing, such as like

art and mathematics or biology.

out of different

parts which our rational conscious mind likes to separate everything to dissect it, to understand it as separate pieces when

everything is interconnected. So permaculture allows us to see the interconnectedness and find a way to make it

interconnected as harmonious as possible so then it becomes so proficient.

Definitely, I think that was I also think that seeing things and categorizing it into boxes was definitely a theme of the past

and I think us as society is actually Moving past that now and actually becoming starting to realize that Everything is kind of

connected. Mm-hmm. And I also think a hundred years down the line this world will look so different to how it is already

looking now and it a hundred years back Looks so different to now

We're on an exponential growth of evolution at the moment, like.

Yeah, and it's scary because it's almost like, are we going down the right route or are we about to be extinct?

That's the exciting paradox of this moment.

Because also we all over-consume so much without even realising.

Yeah, that's part of the issue. Yeah.

And I think that's what you did in the past, you were trying to bring this new idea of just working in an eco-friendly way

without having to over-consume. But I do think that a lot of businesses and just the way that our world works, we need some

kind of over-consumption in order to develop as a society. And it's a very toxic pattern.

I think we over-consume because we're masking a fundamental need of connection, purpose and meaning, which I think

ultimately is stemming from a lack of self-connection.

Yeah, I think over consuming in some cases come from filling a void. Yeah. And it's so easy to fill that void and feel content

in that moment. But then the next second we need to over consume again and again and again and again. Yeah. But I

always think about this where if we imagine this is like our room or like this is this, imagine this is my room. It's quite empty.

It's quite, oh, that is not good.

of ring the doorbell.

Then one good kills.

No, I don't know.

Oh god, thanks, over-consumption, filling a void, shit, like I had the thought and I completely forgot where we were. Well, I

was actually talking about this room, and the light falls, anyways, so our space is reflected, reflects our internal state and

our internal mind, and usually when we see a room that is filled with loads of, I wanna say junk, just loads of stuff, we

actually don't have enough space in our minds to see, I wanna say to see clearly, but what I mean by that is to actually fill a

space with our own energy, with our own vibe, and it comes from a state of not knowing ourselves, so we need to fill that

void, and in physical times we need to fill that void by over-consuming loads of things to fill the space, so that's where I think

over-consumption comes from.

Um, yeah, I call it all conscious baggage, as well as baggage in your conscious mind of all this stuff around you. And maybe

it's reflective of stuff that needs addressing and organizing and thinking about and then clearing out.

But I don't think people need to have a hundred pairs of jeans, for example. I think I've, I've actually just come to the point

where, I mean, I used to, I think I used to over-consume a lot and I've come to the point where I don't actually want a lot of

clothes. I'd rather people know the things that I wear and be like, oh, I've seen Olivia wear that top before. Oh, she identifies

it. Like not identifies with that top, but like that top speaks for her. Like the outfit speaks for her.

It's part of your brand.

Rather than wearing new things every single day to express this one persona. If you're like this one person, have a few

clothes to represent that. Don't keep on buying and buying and buying and buying. It just shows that you're on tour of

yourself.

What's your relationship to authenticity?

So a lot of people say you should, in order to be authentic, you need to be different, but that almost puts you in this mindset

of trying to not be yourself because you're trying to be different. I don't think authenticity means essentially to be different

because we're all naturally different, but we're all naturally similar to each other at the same time. So my relationship with

authenticity, I get inspired by a lot of people, so I'm really inspired by Peggy Gu and I don't know if you know who she is,

she's this music producer. One of her songs went viral two years ago, I'm not gonna sing it, I'm not a great singer, but she's

someone that combines fashion and music together, and she's known for being one of the only artists that doesn't have a

stylist. And I think her music is great, but I think what has truly made her to be Peggy Gu is that she's managed to express

herself in different forms, and because I look up to her so much, I take that as my own inspiration and that's what I think

authenticity is. I think it's being inspired by things and taking it to mean your own thing, and I really think that authenticity

comes from expressing yourself in different ways and fusing that into one thing. I don't think it means be different.

your take on whatever's happening, like your unique perspective of life, I find like my Mason described this really nicely or

material, but I say nicely, it's kind of over in a way, but it's like a mother bird taking the food and like chewing up all the food

and then spitting it out. And but it's like, it's reformed. And it has its her own like DNA in it, or her own saliva. And it's like, we

take this art that influences us or inspires us, or whatever it is in the world, we take it in, and then we digest it. And then we

regurgitate it in our own flavor, in our own style, in our own perspective.

So I would say that's what authenticity is. Yeah, I like that. I don't think you can put it in a box or give it one definition. I

think there are multiple definitions for what authenticity means, but I definitely don't think it means to be different.

Okay. Well, how does consciousness and authenticity relate?

I honestly don't know. I think our consciousness or self-awareness reflects obviously who we are and our understanding of

ourselves and then that will later reflect our authenticity. So whatever beliefs we have of ourselves will be translated to how

authentic we are. If we have low self-beliefs or if we think quite low of ourselves then our authenticity will be reflected in that

in the sense that there won't be any authenticity. Whereas if we had positive self-beliefs and if we are very confident then

our authenticity will be translated in that. So I think authenticity in our consciousness is very interrelated.

Hmm

I think back to when, I mean, we all go through times where we have a low self esteem, high self esteem, low self beliefs,

high self beliefs. And in the lows, there wouldn't be that much authenticity because there's no confidence there. Whereas

like when, when there is a high self esteem, high, strong self beliefs, the confidence is there. And the confidence to allow

ourselves to be vulnerable is there. I think authenticity comes from being vulnerable. I don't think you can be authentic

without being vulnerable.

I would agree because you're almost like handing your soul and hoping that like or not even hoping like you're just showing

your soul and it's like you can squash it you can destroy it you can love it but that's me yeah it takes a lot of courage it takes

and that like

But that's interesting that you said, hoping, because I think a lot of our subconsciously do hope that people accept this, like

our true selves. And that's when I say when we have low self-belief, so if we don't believe in ourselves, we will carry

ourselves in a hopeful manner, in a very validation dependent manner, and that's not authentic. That's like, I'm chasing for

your approval, so I will make my character X, Y, and Z, because I think that that's what you're going to approve.

But at the same time, we do, we are communal creatures that need connection. Yeah. I need validation. A hundred percent.

So there is that like recognition of like, it will hurt or it can hurt if this is not received and accepted. And if my, if my

authenticity is squashed or not accepted, I think it's really only an issue if you have a niggling belief that you are unworthy.

Like you said, and, um, that is now confirming the fact that I am unworthy.

But at the same time, I completely get that and we all strive for connection. That's why we all look for people that we can

relate to. But what I'm kind of getting from that is that like no one wants to be around a yes man. And I think being a yes

man comes from having a very low self esteem. And just the craving of being validated and that's not healthy.

Mm hmm.

Same on the flip side, there are some people that can only be around people that agree with them. That's like the extreme

version of it. There are people that want to please people and like validate them. And then there's the other side of people

that can't be around people that like destroy their ego and their pride. Pride's a very interesting topic. I always talk about it.

Yeah, like we said earlier, pride is still a mask of that unworthiness.

Yeah, unworthiness and also just the inability of doing something. I think pride only grows to be this huge thing when we're

in a state of stagnation. So when we're stagnant, life almost seems quite easy because we're not doing anything. And

because of that feeling of easiness, that's where our pride comes in. But the second we actually go out and try to do

something, the first thing that's getting attacked is that pride. And then we feel that difficulty that we've become so distant

from. And because of it, we just feel so we just feel like we're getting hit by a bullet.

Mmm

Do you know what I mean?

It's very humbling. Yeah. And that's...

So people that are very I think we're I mean look I think we're all prideful I think we all experience moments of humbling,

but there are people that are so immune to it that almost it's almost like starting something is like alien to them. And that's

what's scary because I think we're all here to create and do and naturally that takes humbling and that takes difficulty and

the difficulty is there for a reason to teach us something and to grow into it because we wouldn't be starting something or

learning something if we already knew how to do it.

Yeah, and I think if you're if you're in love with the process of learning, then the humbling isn't really humbling.

And that's the flip side, surely you wouldn't be prideful if you, like, you wouldn't carry pride with you if you loved the process

so much.

Hmm. No, I would agree actually. Yeah

So I want to just like summarize this topic of over consumption on how we basically become disconnected from the creative

process, which is what we're kind of saying with pride. So it does a very similar thing where like it does just disconnect us

from wanting to, if we haven't, if we have a vision of something and we want to achieve it, we almost can't because we're

just used to the final outcome, because we keep on over consuming and over consuming. And what we're consuming is a

final outcome of something. So if we actually want to start something, we don't know how to, that natural instinct of creating

a whole project is gone. Because we're only used to the outcome. Also on social media, we only ever see the final outcome a

lot of the time. So I think today, it's very difficult to actually start something and persist in it. I mean, it's easy because we

have like the network and we can communicate with so many people online. But the disadvantage is that we all over

consume. So we don't know what it feels like to create a final

Yeah, yeah. Like, I feel like that will come in any kind of era, there'll be the challenges and the difficulties. But there'll also be

the incredible benefits. Like you said, like right now, we have an incredible ability to get inspiration from so many different

sources to get all the information we need to actualize a vision to make the networks and get the resources and to be able to

make our dreams lucrative, like incredible. But then we also have to face the incredible disadvantage of confronting

ourselves and our addictive behaviors and our escapisms and our overconsumptions and having to face those things and

have hard reality checks ourselves in order to overcome those things to get the benefits that the internet or this digital world

is starting to present to us. Yeah, like the overconsumption is the big thing that I've been learning a lot more, especially

because like, what was it? It was a few weeks ago, I was, um, I was walking down the canal and I saw like five little baby

ducklings that were fell into one of the lifts, the canal lifts, and they were stuck and the mom was freaking out and trying to

get the babies out. Um, but obviously couldn't do anything. So I was like, Oh, fuck, I gotta try and save these ducklings. And

I sent my bag down, I put my phone in my bag and then, um, I went around to try and help the ducklings and the mom

freaked out and flew over my bag and my phone just slipped off and fell into the water. So I like stripped my clothes, dove

into the canal. That was so deep. Like I didn't realize how deep those barge bridges go now. No, it was gone, man. Like

Aquaman's got that. That was like, so I, I, I scuba dived for that thing and I couldn't even get to the bottom and I came out

like covered in algae and I was just like, Oh my God, what the fuck, man? And then I just see the ducklings. I couldn't help

him. So freaking out. Um, I ended up like sprinting down to a canal company and then getting a net and like fishing them

out, but lost my phone in the process. I didn't have a phone for a good like week in a bit after that. And it was amazing. I

was like, holy shit, that thing really hijacked me, you know? And I was just sitting there for hours, just like in the woods

where I'd usually check my phone in between them. I usually take the Olympic rings out and I like do my workouts in the

trees and stuff. Um, and in between my sets, I'd be checking my phone, but this time I, I literally sat there and stared at

everything, staring at the light, staring at the fractals that were coming out of the ground from the reflecting light. And I felt

so present, so tuned in and I wasn't consuming anymore. And I was getting amazing downloads, like all these ideas coming

to me. And like, I felt so clear on what I was doing and where I was going. The fog went away, you know, the doubt went

away.

The escape is earned.

escapism went away and it was the best thing that could have happened to me. Losing that primary source of navigation,

my phone allowed me to tap into a greater sense of navigation, which was my own self, you know? A hundred percent. And I

think that's what so many of us miss because there's so much noise, bombarded with noise all the time. And, but like how

often do any of us really stop? Like I went on my work break with a couple of people the other day and we sat there for 20,

30 minutes. And the one guy was like, that was the longest I've gone without checking my phone. I was like, seriously, you

need to get outside more man. Like this, like as a society, we are stark.

lot of us just escape at this point. Well, I don't actually think it initially came from escaping. I think there's so much

psychology behind the things that we watch because obviously now our attention spans are like our biggest assets, our focus

is on assets. So these apps of social media, like they try capture our attention in some way to gain some kind of advantage,

whether that's like profit or selling their business to us. But over time, that habit of scrolling has now led us to want to

escape to that because it instantly gives us this like soft cushion of comfort of dopamine, of dopamine and also comfort. I

think a lot of us feel so comfortable when we're on our phones and

Temporarily yeah

when we go back to like the real world, we just can't wait to go back on our first.

realize how uncomfortable you are in the real world. Yeah, definitely. That's a big red flag, you know? And like you said, like

attention is the primary force. It's like the primary currency these days, you know? No it is. Attention is your money and your

attention dictates the kind of world that is created entirely. So what you focus on expands and everyone is trying to get your

attention to expand their own individual realities. So you have to find a way to ensure that you are intentionally choosing

where you're putting your attention in order to create the kind of world in which you envision. So any creator, any podcast,

anyone that has the same like moral compass and guidance that stands for that kind of world, a world that's more moral,

that's more integral, that's more hopeful, that's synergistic, that's harmonious, like we put all of our attention on there as

much as we possibly can. Because our attention will give them money, will give them exposure, will give them recognition.

And then same with ourselves, give ourselves more of that attention. We get the exposure, we get the recognition.

I think the worst thing that we can do to ourselves, such a simple habit, but the worst thing that we can do, wake up and

pick up our phones first thing.

100% or me that sets me off for the day it like

is I feel a difference, because obviously there are times where I actually do wake up and pick up my phone, but recent, I

mean, actually recently, I started doing that again and it's not great. But in the past, for the first like six months of this year,

I genuinely set that as like a new year's resolution that I don't wanna be doing that for the majority of my time. I think like

when you go on holiday, you just somehow break the habit, not great. But anyway, I felt a huge difference.

It does. I try to follow that rule like two hours in the morning, two hours before bed.

Yeah, two hours before that as well, because then also the last thing that you see before you go to sleep somehow sets up

your subconscious mind.

Yeah. It's when your brain starts going into theta brainwaves and you become like the conscious and the unconscious

become malleable. So whatever you're installing into it, when you're like your brainwaves are dropping, they become acted

out unconsciously way easier. So you've got to be very careful. Same when you wake up in the morning, you know, what

you're consuming. Like I just threaded this the other day where I said, before you give anything to your attention, give

yourself and your environment your attention first.

And today, it's so hard for people to actually do that. Yeah, like, we instantly just want to like, give up on ourselves and just

like, pick up our phones and just lose ourselves in it.

But I feel like in all of us, our souls are gagging for us to come home. They're calling you to come home.

because we're so, we don't realise that that's the issue. We feel like there's something wrong. So we think the only solution

is, oh, let me pick up my phone and just like enjoy some short-term dopamine. Yeah. It's really scary.

There's something far juicier than that, man, like there's something so fulfilling and so satisfying and purposeful and It is

following that the cool of your soul that you can't hear when you're numbing when you're on your phone when you're

consuming

We're sabotaging ourselves, we're sabotaging our creativity, we're sabotaging our potential, and it's sad to say but it's again

that like sink and swim theory where if half of us are swimming then the other half are sinking in some way and I don't want

that to be the case but I do think that in big cities especially it's sink and swim and it's sad.

Yeah, there's so many people drowning and I think a lot of people are aware that they're drowning but aren't aware on how

to stop or get out of it just yet.

I think loads of people look for like short-term fixes. They do, yeah. And I don't think short-term is actually a good way of

looking at stuff.

No, but that's kind of the, again, the social media consumption, it creates that like immediate gratification. I need immediate

solution to this. When a lot of the solution does come from long-term thinking, it's small actions compounded over time that

actually create massive results. And it's like those micro little habits in the day, those small things that you can do. Okay,

today, half an hour when I wake up, I'm not checking my phone. 100%. You know, simple little thing, you start doing that

each day. And if you want to do that, you can do that.

And if you can't do that, then you basically can't sit with yourself. And if you can't sit with yourself, how can you actually

expect yourself to go in the direction that you want to go if you can't even sit with yourself? It's embarrassing.

it's yeah it's it's sad and i like my heart

it's sad. I actually think it's so embarrassing.

I think so many people are they do the best that they can with what they have available a lot of the time and some people

just don't know they just don't know and it's like like god bless the people in ignorance who just would do something better if

they knew otherwise and maybe I think that's part of our service here as as anybody is to help increase consciousness or

bring awareness to people in some way shape or form to activate to inspire to empower to expand and ignite consciousness

to become increasingly aware of ourselves and as we do so then we become more soulful

Yeah, and it's interesting because I do think that part of our world is expanding and growing. But there's also the other half

that just isn't and it's just really taken back and is almost drowning and numbing their mind. Our mind, our brain is a muscle

and if we keep on scrolling, doom scrolling, that's the saying, we're loosening our grip to life, we're loosening our innate

ability to step outside and be present and to actually feel what it's like to be here. And it's so sad but I also do think that we

are growing in some way but it's just hard to kind of navigate through that and understand where we're actually going. I

think a lot is happening right now at very far speed.

Where do you think we'll go?

I don't know. I think, I do think there's a really strong divide, for sure. I think that in the past, that divide was determined by

education, but I think now that the majority of the world have so much access to technology, that education isn't the

problem because there is so much free education online. I think the divide that we're going through now is how we want to

take in that knowledge and education that is being thrown at us. If we consciously decide to digest knowledge in a smart

way that works for us, then we have a huge advantage and we're actually very knowledgeable of the world and we're

actually building a healthy life. But then the other side of that is if we're digesting fake news, lack of knowledge, brain rot,

and we're drowning in that. That's the divide that I see today.

Yeah. It's like the integration of knowledge, right? There's excessive amounts of information. You can learn anything you

want really in the entire world. But it's the integration of what you know that I think will be the defining factor. I heard Neville

talk about this. What's his last name? Neville? Do you know what I'm talking about?

No.

Well, he's a very famous writer, um, and he said something along the lines that intelligence is defined by your ability to get

what you want and to achieve an outcome. And I think that really stands the test of time for me, because it is like, if you're

intelligent, but you can't dictate your reality, or you can't influence your, your world in a certain way, there's no application

of that intelligence, then what use is it that will really test our ability to be able to take the information that we're receiving

constantly and finding a way to actually apply it to real life circumstances and embody it into something more tangible and

real. And those that can do that, who know how to learn and how to embody it, they'll be the ones that will really be able to

learn how to shape and shift matter to be able to control or dictate their reality in the way that they, their soul desires.

So because we have this potential ability, you said you want to talk about our service to the world, how would you take that

and how would you use that as our service to the world?

I think we all have a service to the collective in order to help make the world a better place. Because we are all connected,

we're all part of one organism basically. Each playing our individual parts but still connected to the whole and the well-being

of the system will directly correlate to our individual well-being. So we have a service and I mean the indigenous people of

America taught this very well in their tribes with thinking in terms of the next seven generations after them and everything

that they did was somehow connected and correlated to them. So they would tend to the land and look after the land with

them in consideration. I think these days we've become so self-absorbed and fixated on our own egos that we have lost

sense of the wholeness and part of our innate purpose is to contribute to the wholeness, to expand the wholeness, to evolve

and grow as a species and as individuals. I think we are driven by a purpose to give back in some way, to have some kind of

legacy, to have a purpose that transcends us as an individual and we need to find our own personal way of giving back to

the world and like we talked about before the podcast, usually your unique contribution will be the combination of your

unique interests, that you will create some kind of amalgamation or cross-pollinated idea or niche that you get to give to the

world and that will be the unique spark that you get to bring and that will help expand consciousness in some way because

you will see things different than anybody else will because you're different from everybody else. One of the key services I

think that we have to humanity is to completely and utterly be ourselves, to love ourselves and to offer ourselves and I don't

mean that in some sacrificial way but I mean like I know my worth and what I'm good at, let me offer this, let me give this to

the world because I know this part of me is worthy, I know this is worth something and it will help somebody and the more

that each of us can honor that little unique spark of service that we all have then the world is going to become quite a

beautiful and profound place I think as we make huge breakthroughs in all sorts of arts and services and technologies.

Definitely. Systems. But I do think it's also hard to find that nowadays, because again, we're being thrown with so much

overconsumption, so much media, that also a lot of the time, people have so much pressure to reach people's expectations.

So because of that, it does make it quite hard to kind of understand what our spark is, it kind of highlights our human

potential, rather than where all of a lot of us are right now. There could be someone that you can approach and say what are

your key interests, and they could be like drugs and alcohol.

Mmm, partying. It's going out.

Not so much going... I mean, I think there's so much beauty to going out and partying and music and nightlife. I think there's

so much to be said about that in a beautiful way. But some people's hobbies are just... I could be someone that just has an

interest in drugs. How can I contribute to society?

You can then study like why? Why do you have an interest in drugs? What is it giving you? What's it providing you? What are

you connecting to in this pursuit of that?

Yeah, I guess it kind of answers a few questions, addiction and escape is a- Yeah.

then you might start going into like therapy and then finding some way to crib interesting you. Or then you start getting into

like neuroscience and thinking well how, why is, what's happening in my brain to correlate this? So like you start getting into

esotericism and spirituality because you're like, oh, actually I'm connecting to something greater and higher in this.

There was actually this artist that experimented with loads of different drugs and when he was on a different drug, he would

start drawing and he'd see that. Yeah, sort of. Yeah, really fascinating. It's really cool. So yeah, I mean, I guess everything is

a creative journey at the end of the day and we all have our own definitions to what creativity is and we all translate that in

our own way. I think our number one obstacle today is overconsumption and I think we all face some struggles with it and

it's sad, but without a hud or how can we know that there's something to be accomplished at the end of the day.

It's true. It is oftentimes the way. The obstacle is the way a lot of the times.

I think feeling friction, feeling obstacles makes us feel more challenged, therefore more motivated to actually...

which actually propels and accelerates evolution, right? Which I think is this pivotal point that we're in as a collective, as we

are shifting into a whole new epoch or state of consciousness for the collective. Cause we are reaching such a critical mass

point in our evolution where there has to be some kind of radical change or different approach to life. Cause it's not, it

doesn't seem to be working across the globe. So what, something's got to change. I think that's the exciting period that we

are born in at the moment that we are about to, or aiding the transition of the shifting into a new age, a new epoch.

So what do you hope to give to the world with your creativity?

I think the like

Because everyone has their own channel of personal expression that comes from having your own ideas and then

translating that into the physical world. So you have that with your videography, photography, and you like to channel ideas

through that. There's me that likes to channel ideas through communication with this and through music and fashion. So

what would you like to bring to the world with your own creativity?

I want to spark some thinking people, whether that is a curiosity, a wonder, a connection where they feel inspired, they feel

seen, they feel validated, they feel understood, they feel there could be more, that they could be more, that they could

actually change things. I want to empower people. I want people to realize that you have so much influence in this world. We

are all creators, we are profound creators of worlds, we are creating this world. And I don't think people really realize how

much influence they have in the world that they create. And I would like to spark that in people. I would like people to see

my art and be like something moves in them, like their soul stirs and turns over and shifts something in them consciously. I

see this incredible future where we are living harmoniously together, where we're living synogenistically with technology

and nature.

I think you should really make a short film about technology.

I... I will eventually. I'm... I think also- I'm coming in time.

I saw, ironically, on Instagram, I follow this art account. It's called Art Dose or Daily Art Dose, something like that. And this

photographer made a shoot with different people in different scenes of what it looks like. So imagine right now I'm sitting

here and I'm just on my phone. So what this photographer did was take the photo, but right before he took the photo, and

let's say you also on your phone, he took away the phone. So he made the photographers, he made the people in his photo

basically sit like this. And you would see different environments of people on their phone. So the first one with this couple in

bed, face backwards to each other on their phones, but there wasn't any phone. And that, I mean, obviously everyone

knows that it's so bad to scroll and to be on your phone, but something about that photo really hit different. And it wasn't

just that one, it was all of them. People grocery shopping, scrolling on their phones. It's just seeing people's heads down and

not up.

Yeah. We used to look to the stars, you know.

We still do I mean it doesn't it doesn't come naturally though. I will say that I've been aware of My posture and typically

when I walk I actually walk looking at the ground and I know that's so bad because I think that's because I'm on my phone

and I'm just looking and like texting or whatever And I think naturally my body posture reflects the fact that I'm on my

phone I don't think I'm the only one and I always do try to look up and look at the trees and Absorb as much light as I can in

that sense

there is, um, incredible information that's spread worldwide rapidly, which increases our awareness and mess, like all kinds

of messages and like our ability to create our businesses and stuff like that. But it is like, it just, we just need to be mindful of

the consumption. Don't let it consume you. And I think that's the issue that we're in. It's the, the social media is consuming

us and, and we're degrading and degenerating for the most part.

We're not consuming, social media is consuming us 100%.

Yeah. And we're getting there slowly. I think we will eventually, but I think it's going to take a lot more turmoil and

challenge. Unfortunately, I think there's still a lot of catalyzing events that need to happen in order to really shake people

up. Um, cause we are in a notice as a collective, but I have high hopes. I really do. Yeah.

And I feel like on nature as people will shake that challenge off and because it's destroying us we will come to terms with it

and we'll realise it and we will survive. I don't know, not survive but we'll realise what is good and what isn't and we'll get

better at it. It's like you know how back in the day everyone went around smoking cigarettes like on the plane and now

today we will realise the danger of it. So there are obvious restrictions and I think that is the same right now because we

over consume social media as much as they over consume cigarette.

there'd be like signs in coffee shops that say no scrolling rather than stuff like that. Like let me read that. I really read that.

I mean, actually, I don't know if I could see that happening. Definitely not in not in coffee shops. But there could be some

places that would say sorry, no photos. I mean, there already are. Like there are some there are some clubs that you you're

not allowed to like speak to people on the phone. You can't call people. You can't video. You can't you can't really be on your

phone. And I think that's a beauty in that.

I think so too. I think that allows us to reconnect again, you know.

Yeah, and I think the conclusion of what we're basically speaking about is that we are in this war of attention and focus and

we're basically talking about how to leverage through that and to keep our authenticity and our creative spark and to be

authentic in a world that is drowning with focus being dissipated in essentially brain rot.

Yeah. Yeah. And these molds that we think we need to fit in, in order to be, to represent ourselves online in a certain way, or

to even navigate the world in a particular way. Like the secret, I think to a lot of this is just coming back home to yourself,

being yourself and spending time with yourself. And then the more that you do that, the more your true essence and soul

and spirit can really come forward. And then naturally you will offer your gifts, you will offer your service, the world of

benefit, we will evolve for the better, you will feel more fulfilled and purposeful.

Yeah, and a lot also what social media and just technology is encouraging, not on purpose, but isolation, because it gives us

that validation or that dopamine that is sometimes quite hard to find in real life social settings. Yeah, so you might find it

more comfortable to sit in that space rather than actually go out and interact with people. And I also thinking back to like

COVID times where we were all isolated and we were all on our gadgets and people started working from home, when that

ended, and we all had to go back into reality, we were all kind of socially awkward or like it was kind of weird to catch up

with living normal day to day life in that sense.

Yeah, yeah, there's many people who are still stuck in that yeah, and you can see it as well as some of the kids Who lost

some fundamental years of schooling? Through those years and their ability to socialize is different it's It's a bit of a social

epidemic because we are so interconnected, but yet we've never been so disconnected and alone

True. So true. So interesting.

And it's no wonder that we have so many issues in society when everything is interconnected and we have cut ourselves off

from all of it.

Yeah, so many issues, but also so many solutions.

There's so many solutions, so many solutions. That's the, that's the incredible thing. Like all of the solutions are there. This

like futuristic world that I have in my mind is we have the technology to do it. We just have to choose it and we choose it

through our attention. And then what you pay attention to will expand. Like I said, it will just keep feeding itself and growing

and growing and growing. And it's just, we have to decide which world are we paying attention to, to the one that's kind of

collapsing and falling apart and coming disconnected, or the world that's growing and building in front of us, the new one.

What's your final message to conclude this whole conversation, would you say?

That's such a big question.

Thank you.

I would say that your spirit and your soul is calling you home always and we have to make the time to listen to it. You're not

alone. No one is alone. We are all interconnected and all going through this together and we can find a way to create a

better world. And the best way that you can do that is just to love yourself, connect with yourself, have compassion with

yourself. And follow all of those little threads of interest that you have. Those curiosities, those magnetisms that will lead

you home.

Yeah.

I think that's what I would say.

I think we just need to follow our intuition rather than ignoring it and filling a void through losing ourselves to a lot of media

that is built based on keeping our attention wide to it. And I think we accidentally self-sabotage ourselves by not sitting with

ourselves and giving ourselves the time to expand our knowledge and also understand ourselves. So I would say my final

message is we just need to do the uncomfortable things. We need to sit with ourselves, we need to listen to ourselves, we

need to be vulnerable. That's the incredible cost of being a human being. I think today it's so easy to judge, but that

judgement is coming from a place of not doing anything. Do you know what I mean? The people that are typically judging

are the ones that find it difficult to start anything. So we just need to start doing and doing and doing. And the more we do,

the less we judge because we're too occupied to even think. So that would be my final message.

Yeah. Beautiful. Make that switch between being a consumer and being a creator. Yeah. Recognize that whether you're, I'm

not talking about content creator, just a creator. You are a creator rather than a consumer. 100%. That helped me

massively. Yeah. That I'm going to contribute to this rather than. Definitely. It'd take me up.

Well, thank you so much for coming on here.

You're awesome, man. I just want to say that, like, so are you. You're very cool. What you're doing. Thank you.