How to sell without the "ICK!"

Summary

In this conversation, Christa discusses how photographers can sell their products and services without feeling pushy or icky. She emphasizes the importance of mindset, viewing sales as a service, and educating clients on the value of products. Christa shares her sales workflow, which includes multiple touchpoints with clients to ensure they understand the value of what they are purchasing. The conversation encourages photographers to step out of their comfort zones and embrace a service-oriented approach to sales.

Takeaways

• Sales doesn't have to be icky; it's about serving clients.
• Mindset is crucial in overcoming sales fears.
• Photographers are already in sales, whether they realize it or not.
• Clients often surprise you with what they are willing to spend.
• Educating clients on the value of products is essential.
• Sales should focus on the client's needs, not the photographer's experience.
• Creating a seamless sales workflow enhances client satisfaction.
• Touchpoints with clients can lead to higher sales averages.
• Less can be more; serving fewer clients can be more profitable.
• Practice makes perfect; the more you sell, the easier it becomes.

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Transcript

Christa (00:00.534)
Mandu, I have a spicy topic today that I have had my coffee and I'm excited to jump into with you. And that is how to sell without the ick, right? Because I hear from photographers a lot, like, I would love to offer products, I would love to offer them to clients, but I don't wanna be pushy. I don't wanna be icky, Krista. I don't wanna back them into a corner and make them feel weird and then I feel weird. And that's just not how I wanna run my business. And I understand that because there was a time that I thought that too, because that's what I was taught.

I was taught that you really can't upsell without being ick and it's not true and I'm here to tell you why because I wish someone had told me that so much sooner and that there's a way to sell that serves the clients and that actually helps them. So we are just gonna be covering a lot today. We're gonna be talking about the mindset. We're gonna be talking about what is sales really. We're gonna be talking about how to overcome that fear, how to serve your clients and not make it about yourself but make it about them.

I'm going to give you my exact sales flow that avoids it being icky or there being confusion or clients being shocked at what they're spending. And then just some really actionable steps that you can take in order to just market what you're doing. So the first thing is here. First thing is mindset before we do anything else. And I'm curious, if you think sales is icky, I want you to dig into why. Because I'm going to drop a truth bomb on you. If you are a photographer running your own business, you are already in sales.

Let that sink in. You are actually already selling. You might be hiding behind an email, maybe a fancy PDF, maybe behind your Instagram feed, but you're selling. And maybe it's in a very passive way that's not leading to as many results as you want, but you're already selling. So why not do it in a way where you can step out of that and actually serve clients better? Guess what? Your competition feels the same, so they're not doing it either. So you can stand out.

so much further and really help your clients. The other thing you need to dig into is if you feel like about sales, why is that? Did you have a bad past experience with sales? Have you been cornered in the mall when you're walking by the straightener counter and they like straighten half of your hair and leave the rest like wavy and then they're like, buy it. You're like, no, can you fix my hair? I told you I wasn't gonna buy it, right? That's not what we're doing. That is not selling the right way. Or maybe you're thinking of the used car salesman lot, okay? That's not what we're doing here.

Christa (02:25.399)
But you need to dig into like, if you have a bad connotation, why is that? Because so much of this is mindset, so much of growing your business is mindset, so much of photographers staying kept at their income is actually getting in our own way. It actually doesn't really have to do with our clients or external circumstances. I have photographers who are shocked when clients like actually buy from them. And I'm like, well, yeah. And they're like, I was stopping the sale. And I'm like, I know, okay. So here's how we're gonna get out of our own way.

We have to really recognize when we are the ones that are shutting down the sale due to our own mindset blocks. So often we're not upselling or we're doing it in a way that's not very effective. For instance, hey, I offer products. Yes, no, not really. Okay, not really. No, no, no, I wouldn't either. Yeah, right? And we take that approach. Okay, we'll talk about not serving well and not educating well. They don't know about products at that point and why from you and why this is the...

best way to enjoy their images in a tangible way. So when we just like barely mention it and they shut it down and then it's like, Chris, they don't want products. Well, yeah, I would say no too if it was being approached that way, right? And instead sales can be very positive and service focused. And so we really have to get out of our own way. And in doing that, we also have to make sure that we are not deciding when the sale stops for our clients. So when my husband and I bought our house that we currently live in,

I decided, well we decided that I really wanted this bed from Pottery Barn. I had been eyeing it for a while. And the thing about me is I am not a nice furniture kind of person. There's certain splurges I make in life and our furniture and home decor is not one of them. Most of our stuff is from TJ Maxx or thrifted. It's just not something that I personally invest a lot in. And now that I have a little one, like I'm really like, I don't know if now's the time. Okay? So to me, this was a big deal.

Okay, like I'm trying to even remember if the beds we had before that, I think one was from my childhood, maybe one was from, I don't know, like a yard sale, right? Like we had not invested in this, but I knew that I really wanted this nice bed for our new bedroom that had like the high ceilings and these things. So I go into Pottery Barn and here's the deal. I don't look like they're high-end shoppers. I'm wearing an old Navy skirt that's passed down from my sister, right?

Christa (04:50.284)
Edward and I are young. And they could have easily looked me up and down and saw that we rolled up in my used Toyota RAV4 and said, they're not going to spend a lot. Don't give them a lot of time. Point them to the clearance section. That could have been really easy for the sales associate to do. And that would have been very upsetting to me because I was an empowered buyer. I came in knowing, I do want to invest in this. I had done my due diligence beforehand.

And it just shows the power of sales and that it's not up to us to decide what our clients should and shouldn't spend. And I think I surprised the dude a little bit that was showing us options and I was like, I want to go with this. And I really don't want to see your lower level options. I know I want this, okay? And I wanted to share that as an example. The breakdown is your clients can come in the door not knowing that they want this and value this, right? So it's still up to us to educate and share the value. It's not up to us to decide before them, for them what they should and shouldn't spend.

I could give you example after example, and due to just keeping my clients' confidentiality safe, I don't want to go into it, of clients who came in the door and completely surprised me with what they bought. It's not what I expected. And I could give you example after example of clients that I really thought would purchase a lot based on maybe what they drove or the investments they were sharing with me or the trip that I just saw them go on who really didn't spend as much as others that I would have thought, wow, this client had way more expendable income.

And it just goes to show you people buy what they value, so it's up to us to share that value and to educate. So most clients who come in my door, some do understand, I want products, I want them from you, especially return clients, right? But many new clients don't do that. They don't know that they want products. Some do, many don't. Maybe they haven't worked with a full service photographer before. Maybe they've never really printed stuff in their home.

And I get to be the one to take the time to educate and share the value, not shutting them down the moment they're like, you know, I haven't really thought about products, Krista. I think we're good with just digitals and writing them off and saying, well, you know, best of luck. I'm not serving you. No, no. And also I can upsell digitals too and still make a lot of money and serve them well. So it's still okay even if they don't, but I still want to take the time to share the value with them. So it is our job to educate while listening to their needs. It is not our job to get in our own way to stop the sale or decide the sale.

Christa (07:07.283)
for them. You're gonna feel a little bit uncomfortable with this at first, especially because if you've been hiding behind your email or DMs, it's gonna be a little scary to put yourself out there and to stretch yourself further than what you normally would. And I wanna encourage you, that's okay. That's why a lot of photographers aren't doing this. That's why there's a lot of broke photographers out there and you shouldn't be one of them. Okay, so then let's talk about the heart of sales. Sales as service, educating and sharing the value. We've already touched on this, but we're doing it again. It's not about pushing, it's about helping.

It's about sharing the value of what we offer. And in doing this, you do not have to be your own client. I repeat, you do not have to be your own ideal client. I was not my own ideal client when I shifted to this. Can I give you a little insight? One of the reasons I shifted to full service is I wasn't making very much money and I needed to change that. So because I wasn't making very much money, I was not in a spot where I was spending thousands with our photographers.

and buying these products for our home. I didn't really understand the value. I even bought this super cheap engagement album from a consumer brand. I'm not even kidding. It's like breaking in half. I'm afraid to open it, right? Versus now the quality products that I see. So I was not my ideal client. But what I did is I wanted to still understand and still get clear on the value of what I was offering. So what did I do? I had some photos of Etterdine I printed for the wall.

And that was about six and a half years ago, excuse me, and I still have them on my wall. I don't know where that online gallery is, I don't care. But I had these on my wall and then I was able to really see that and notice, know, I look at these a lot. I would just kind of find myself sitting there staring at them. And I was able to share that joy with clients and able to educate them in that way of, I don't really have anything to do with 80-digitals thrown at me, truly. I forget about them and maybe downloading my few favorites and...

That's it. And if I don't print them, I really forget about them. But because I have this in my home on my wall, there's this extra level of enjoyment. And that's something I tell my students to do, of print something personal for your family. If you didn't get your wedding album printed, print that. That took me a year to get printed. I tell my clients that this is what I do. It took me a year. That's why I hired a full service photographer for my daughter's newborns, because I knew I wasn't going to get around to it and getting it printed. Now I have her beautiful newborn album. So.

Christa (09:26.877)
Give yourself the opportunity to do that. Write it off as a business expense because it's something that I use for marketing purposes. I photograph, I share with clients, and it really helps change my perspective and what I was offering so that I could share the value more effectively. Okay, so we've gone through our mindset. We've gone through sales being service. And then I wanna touch on, this is about the client, not yourself. So often when I'm intensively coaching students,

We have had conversations where I have to say, great, when you tell me, hey, we're having this conversation with a client and I feel like I'm rambling, you have to stop. This is about the client and serving them. And yes, we're gonna have to share a value and service. It's not that we can't say anything at all, but it needs to be about the client, not about your experience. Sometimes I'll touch on that and say, my gosh, I can totally relate. Like my daughter's around that age too. Like what is your son doing? I can use things to relate, but it's not the Krista show.

It is about them. And because there's so little of that going on in our day and age, right? Like I could go on and on here. We're in a pretty self-focused society, even just look at social media, right? Often it's like a love fest for ourselves. When you step out of that and really make something about someone else, it goes really far. If you need a good book, How to Win Friends and Influence People helps me a lot, both in business and personally.

And do you guys have that friend or that acquaintance that you sit down and chat with and you leave and you're like, I don't know why I shared so much with them. I just caught myself talking and talking. Like they just were so easy to talk to and just really listened and that meant so much. I have people in my life like that and that's what I want to be for friends as well as when I set things up for my client. And in listening to them, engaging what they need and what's important to them, I can more easily lead them to what products that they're going to love and want and what's going to work well for them.

And so I am the guide, not the star, but I'm still guiding them by creating that space where I can listen. And next I'm gonna talk about my workflow so you can hear how I understand their needs in that space. But it's important to ask the right questions to uncover their needs. So instead of like, hey Stephanie, do you want pictures on the wall from your shoot? I don't know, Krista, this is the first time I'm hearing about it. I think we're fine. Okay, no problem.

Christa (11:50.76)
That's not serving well. That's not sharing the value. That's not being the guide versus, Stephanie, this sounds amazing. We've painted the picture for your session. I'm so excited. Here's what I'm envisioning for it. Hey, if we just get the most gorgeous photo of your family, where in your home do you have a spot we could put this on the wall, right? Completely different opening conversation. So it is our job to educate while listening. Okay.

The next thing that I do is like while I'm guiding them, I keep my product many very simple. So then if I said, Stephanie, I have 50 different wall art sizes and 2000 frame options. What do you think? Talk about, you know, getting overwhelmed, right? That's not serving and being the guide. Instead, I can walk her through that and share great based on this wall that you're telling me about. This or this size would be a perfect option.

Right, what are the colors in the room? Great, one of these frame options would be great. I'm walking them through it and I'm making it easy just to say yes. I am not saying, hey, I need you to design your wall art, what do want on the wall? I'm even showing mockups based on having that conversation with her. So let me share my sales workflow with you, my touch points for sessions so that I'm really clear on this. that first of all, it's really important that this is clear. My pricing is upfront. Pricing is not a surprise afterwards. They have seen the full pricing menu.

before walking into their photo shoot. But I do it in a way that's intentional because if I just threw it all at them at the beginning like a lot of photographers do, it would be overwhelming. Or if I just threw it to them at the end, they're not nurtured, they do not understand the value, they're not educated, so you're not gonna have any upsells. And that's why your online gallery sales are probably trash like mine are. So here's the sales flow that works really well without feeling salesy. So the very first step is even before the client reaches out, just in your marketing.

So show up intentionally with your purpose and your why. Showcase images that you have. you're like, don't even have, sorry, images of products that you could share on your socials and every page of your website. And if you're like, I don't have any samples to photograph or clients ordering products to shoot. There's plenty of resources. We did an interview with Red Tree Albums, if you search for them. They even have a folder of marketing images that they created for photographers to use that you have full permission to use.

Christa (14:07.601)
There's plenty of places online that you can get wall art mockups to still show how incredible this could be before you get those samples in. But because I showed up so intentionally and so regularly with products and why, it wasn't as much of a shock to all of my clients that this is what I was doing. They were excited about it. The next thing that I do is I start each conversation with a call. gosh, Chris, do I get on the phone? Yeah, that's what you're.

Competition is saying too, so you can even stand out from them and be able to do that. So this is how I was booking over 100 shoots a year with a line out the door and an incredibly saturated community. So saturated, it was crazy, okay? I made a Facebook group for photographers and there's 500 in it. So by doing this, I could stand out and that also allows me to share the value most effectively and get clear on how I can serve them for their session. The next thing that I do is I do a pre-shoot meeting once we know we're good to go with the session.

And we're gonna go over their vision, their outfits, what combinations do we need. This allowed me to show up so much more intentionally to sessions, but we also really focus a lot on products during that time. I bring up products on the inquiry call and get them warmed up to it, but if I were to go into all of the nitty gritty details at that time, talk about overwhelm. Instead, I let them know starting prices and points and just kind of give them some ideas based on what I'm hearing and write it all down.

And then we really dive deep at a design consultation down to, hey, which wall are we thinking? We probably need this size, so we need to shoot for this. Or we love an album, so I know these are the shots that I need to really tell the story. So I can go into sessions shooting for what the client is wanting. And then after the session, we have a touch point where we go over favorites, we note their edits, and we're going to finalize their product purchase because I'm guiding them along. I'm showing them mockups, hearing their feedback, making suggested changes.

and finalizing the sale that way. So I wanted to share a few things that I sometimes hear when I share this. The first one is, well, were all of your clients like old? No. No, I worked with young clients. And even when photographers are like, well, no young people want anything but digital, that's not true. You just need to share the value effectively. Maybe you need a shift clientele or maybe we have to get out of our own way. And instead of doing that, really share how we can serve them past this. My clients walk away thrilled with their experience and their products. And so,

Christa (16:26.958)
In doing this too, another thing that I often hear is, well, that's a lot of touch points. I don't have time for that. Well, here's the deal. Because my average went from a few hundred to a few thousand, it's worth that time. I can serve less clients and still make a lot. I just actually interviewed a girl for the podcast. Her episode will be coming out soon. And she went from a $250 average to a 1K average. And she told me that she had six sessions and made as much.

as what would have been 23 sessions before because she was full service and upsold with products. Your time investment is worth it. That's why most of my top clients are moms because whew, someone who values their time more than anyone else talked to a really busy mama who really values time with her kids, but is also growing a business while also doing all of these other things and wearing all these other hats. And it's the idea of less can be more. Instead of always having to book more and more and more shoot and burn sessions, you can serve less clients more intentionally.

while having these touch points and standing out from your crowd instead of offering the same shoot and burn service that the $300 photographers in your area are all doing and fighting for, okay? So, final thoughts here, sales is service. When you guide your clients and educate and share the value, it's not pushy, it's helpful. And I wanna encourage you, you're gonna be pushed out of your comfort zone, especially if this is new for you. And that is okay. I constantly had to fill my mind with tips on mindset.

with positive books and really not let myself sit around like questioning what I was doing or feeling bad for myself. But I kept going back to my why. And my why that I kept going back to was the life that I want, the business that I want is not supported through shoot and burn. I did it for five years. It was not getting to me to where I wanted to be. And I was really missing out on service to my clients that I craved. I loved serving my clients and the income that I felt like

I should be getting paid with what I was pouring out. And that really helped me stay motivated. Even when I felt like something was pushing me super outside my comfort zone. The next thing that I wanted to leave you with is you only get better at something with practice. So do you remember the first time you showed up to a shoot with your camera and you're like fumbling to figure out your auto settings? Yeah, your camera's on auto and you're still fumbling. And then you have no idea how to pose them. And now those things are verbatim to you. Why? Because you kept showing up and doing them. You kept.

Christa (18:53.097)
showing up even when it was uncomfortable and pushed through. And so now it feels like second nature where you could set your camera in your sleep probably, right? And it's the same with this process. The more you do it, the easier it gets and the better you get at sharing the value effectively with your clients.