Film Therapy: Lessons from Addiction in Cinema

We're thrilled to announce our newest episode of "On Your Radar," hosted by Rosecrance’s Tom Farley. In Episode 3, we’re joined by author and true Hollywood insider Ted Perkins. His book, "Addicted in Film: Movies We Love About the Habits We Hate," details his incredible story of watching 100 movies in 100 days to overcome his own battle with alcohol addiction. 

 So grab some popcorn and settle in for an eye-opening and entertaining exploration of some of the best movies ever made about addiction and recovery. We'll be viewing clips, sharing anecdotes, and delving into what these films can teach us.

 Don't miss this enlightening new episode!

www.AddictedInFilm.com

Transcript

Well, welcome, listeners, to another exciting episode of On Your Radar, where we explore the complexities of substance use and mental health issues. I'm your host, Tom Farley, and today's episode is brought to you by Rosecrance, a leader in addiction treatment and mental health services. You can learn more about Rosecrance and delve deeper into their innovative work at rosecrance.org. 

We have a very special episode for you today. It's an exploration of the world that we've all encountered in movies but often hesitate to discuss openly: substance use and addiction. We'll be watching clips, sharing anecdotes, and delving into what these films can teach us. I'm thrilled to introduce our guest for today, an author, a true Hollywood insider, Ted Perkins. His book, Addicted in Film: Movies We Love About the Habits We Hate. It details his incredible story of watching 100 movies in 100 days to overcome his own battles with alcohol addiction. Ted, how are you? Welcome. So, so wonderful to have you and talk about movies, which you know I love.

Thank you, Tom. It's a pleasure to be here and very happy to be part of the Rosecrance family here. Congratulations. Wonderful organization. 

Yeah. Yeah. It's a fascinating subject, but so are you. So, tell our audience a little bit about yourself, your Hollywood journey as a writer and producer, and really, and obviously how you found a path to recovery with this idea of watching 100 movies in 100 days. I mean, I love that. Yeah. 

People love challenges like that. Like, you know, I went 365 days without a smartphone, and I write a book about it. So I kind of patterned it on that. But I've led sort of a charm life in many respects. It was lucky I was at a very young age. I was a studio executive at Universal and Warner Brothers doing really high net worth transactions and big movie deals and traveling the world, first-class travel. And it was my job to wine and dine clients. You know, that was part of the machinery of Hollywood. Still is to a large extent. But I mean, going to the Cannes Film Festival and having Veuve Clicquot on a $100 million yacht, and entertaining movie stars, and hanging out with directors and basically creating political capital through alcohol and partying. And then I ended up becoming a film sales executive. And the independent side of the industry is even more intense with alcohol because those are people that are doing pickup business, and they like to play with the big boys at the studios, and they like to have big parties, too. So, in a sense, you know, we'd go to, all right, we'd go to $50 million yachts and have less expensive champagne, but still the impetus to entertain people and build political capital and do deals was built around alcohol and socializing and that kind of networking, which it still is. And then I became a writer and found some early success. And, you know, with writing, you have periods of working intensely and making a lot of money. And then you have periods of not working that much, and not selling that much. And I found that I was starting to fill those gaps and dealing with the frustrations and the stresses of those lulls, those lull periods, by self-medicating with alcohol. And eventually it got to a point where I thought, well, this is not really a good, you know, it's affecting my life, and my family, and everything. And I decided to stop, and I'd done several things to stop. I found that I kept on relapsing and going back, and I guess I really wasn't very disciplined about it. But one of the things that I tried was I'd read every book about addiction that I could get my hands on. And I started to get a little bit bored. They were all kind of saying the same thing in a different way. And I said, well, you know, I know that there's a lot of movies about addiction and recovery. Maybe I should start checking those out. I'd seen a couple of them over the years. But I said, well, let's do a challenge. So, I had time on my hand because I was sober and I was waiting for a deal to go through. And I watched, all right, I'll watch 100 movies about addiction recovery in 100 days. And I learned so much about addiction and recovery and the stories around it that I decided to write a book about it, which is the genesis of Addicted in Film: Movies We Love About the Habits We Hate, which was just a joy to write. And people really responded to the book. And they thought, you know, this is a kind of a cool way of looking at the problem of SUD and alcohol abuse and addiction, that people could learn and be inspired by movies to change and self-reevaluate. And that's, that's been proven to be the case. And so, I'm overjoyed that my little challenge to myself ended up being something a little bit bigger than just my problem. 

I'm amazed that, you know, certainly we know Hollywood has, you know, an overabundance of films out there that glorify or perpetuate stigmas on this issue, all sorts of things. The fact that you found a hundred movies. It might be a broad, not totally about addiction recovery, but there are elements of it. The fact that you found that, and I think that number is growing in recent years, so that's a good sign. But initially, just to find 100, I think that was a challenge

Well, you'd be surprised to learn, Tom, that I had worked with somebody who had found a document that was prepared by a professor, who's now deceased, from Kansas State University, who'd actually been in recovery and for the last 30 years had compiled a list of all the movies that either directly or tangentially dealt with addiction, recovery, substance use, alcohol, et cetera. And there was way more than 100. There was like 500 films. Now, not all of them were valuable, and not all of them were ones that I thought were interesting enough to cover in the book. But certainly, there's quite a few. There's much more than you can imagine. And during the 1930s, the scare tactics after Reefer Madness, there were a lot of movies that were showing like drug dens and, you know, opium dens and violence. And, you know, there's a lot of exploitative movies done about drugs as being an evil in society that sort of, you know, are now in the Library of Congress and will never, thankfully, see the light of day again. 

So this was a great step, to kind of using, and understanding how we can use this great medium to learn about these addictions. One of the insights that you share in the beginning of your book, which was the importance of learning about addiction, you say, the more we can learn about the actual topic of addiction, the better our chances are of successfully recovering from it, which, not only it's a great statement, but you modeled that statement yourself.

 I thought it was important to say that because, you know, like I said, I'd read a lot of books, but, you know, books can only take you so far. Text can only take you so far. Ideas on paper can only take you so far. You know, that is very much an exercise of the mind. But addiction recovery has a large component that also has a lot to do with your heart, with your emotions. And I felt that the clinical analysis of addiction is great. But showing addiction and allowing people to emotionally connect with characters that are undergoing addiction has great value as well. And I felt that, you know, I asked myself the question, could somebody go through rehab with their blindfolders on and get the same effect? And the answer was yes, because it's largely text and verbally based. But I thought, why not make a two-dimensional process way more three-dimensional and introduce depictions, representations of problematic realities, which are beautifully conveyed in films. 

That's fantastic. And again, it brings us, kind of, one of the pillars that challenge us in recovery is rigorous honesty. And sometimes we can put ourselves in a place, we're very good at putting ourselves in a place, of not being honest, but when we see kind of some elements of ourself portrayed, you know, on screen in a different way, itt's tough not to be honest about it. Like, yeah, you know, I resonate with that. And it's easier maybe sometimes to come to grips with kind of your story when you see it portrayed by Hollywood, you know, the gift that Hollywood is able to show us.

Let's not forget that, you know, really one of the most powerful ways that people can change their mind is by what they emotionally connect to, and what they see, much more so than what they read about, which is why television and images has been so powerful. I mean, when people saw that image of the poor naked girl running out of her village in Vietnam with her back on fire, that really changed the tide of the war. Or when they saw police dogs attacking Black protesters in Alabama, that really changed people's opinion on things. And sometimes it takes imagery to do that.

And also, I think it also takes us out of, you know, addiction and/or recovery can be very isolating. And, you know, at least you feel that way. And sometimes it is. Sometimes you are alone. But movies are that one element where you can still be, you know, by yourself but you're not. You're connecting in some way. It brings you out of that isolation in a way that is necessary. So let's look at some of these clips. Let's get to the exciting part of this conversation. Before we get started, I'd like to bring on Dr. Raymond Garcia to add some perspective to our conversation. Dr. Garcia is Rosecrance's newest chief medical officer. He is board-certified in psychiatry and neurology and is also a board-certified addictionologist with Rosecrance. Welcome, Dr. Garcia. 

Good morning, Tom and Ted. I'm very excited to be here. Apart from being a physician, one of my career considerations back in the day was to be a screenwriter. So, this is a very exciting topic for me. 

Well, that is awesome. Here we are, all three buffs. This is really fun. This is going to be fun. All right.  So, let's start off with 28 Days, one of the most successful movies about recovery. So, let's play a little clip now.

About that jail thing, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't go. Well, not because I don't want to go, but it, oh, God, my hands, you know, it's like they just keep doing that. That's not normal. I just, there's something wrong with my hands. Well, with me, because what kind of person just jumps out of a, what kind of person jumps out of a window, you know, because she can't sit still, you know, be alone, you know, in a room without, you know, a person should be able to just be alone, right? You know, human beings should be able to just breathe. I can't breathe. And I feel that, I think I know, I think I know that if I go to jail like this, you know, I'll die, and I want to die.

So, Ted, why is this movie so relevant to the recovery story? Why do you love this example so much? 

Well, first, 28 Days is a very entertaining film. And it was able to blend entertainment, comedy, and, pathos, and drama, and positive messaging all into one package in a big Hollywood confection, which, you know, is not your typical kind of story for a movie that is going to open at the box office. And Hollywood, you know, generally wants to make a lot of money on movies. And this film was a risk. So the fact that it was made at all is actually very cool. But I think more largely from the point of view of what it represents, it was really the first time after the movie Clean and Sober had come out a couple of decades earlier. And that was like the public's first look at what rehab was. But this was, 28 Days was the first look at what, like upscale, well-managed, well-run, you know, addiction treatment could look like with all of the bells and whistles and all professional, professionally trained staff and how it actually runs. And so, and then Sandra Bullock's progression as a character of like, being sort of like the loner who doesn't think that she actually belongs there, and doesn't think she has a problem, and then finally realizes that she does and starts to do the work of recovery, and then gets out the other end as a successfully recovered person, that sort of encompasses what the story of a lot of people's experience in rehab is, which is that at the very beginning, many people are sort of checking the boxes and saying, well, you know, I showed up. Isn't that what I'm supposed to do for my court mandate? But by the end, they realize that this is really something very important. And that is a very positive message. And I think that, that this is a movie that should be watched by anybody who is either about to go into recovery or in recovery, because it really symbolizes and shows what the heroic progression of somebody in rehab should look like. 

When artists are willing to take that kind of a challenge, take that risk. And, you know, I think, as Ted was saying, this was a very... a good way of kind of depicting that journey. I mean, that clip that we saw, you know, was a very nice way to capture that moment that oftentimes people would think, I can't keep playing at this anymore. This is serious. And I think Sandra Bullock did a nice job of really depicting that. 

I think also, and you probably see this all the time too, the interesting thing about that clip that we saw was, did you notice a look of Steve Buscemi's face? That look of empathy and concern. And that's what we don't believe is waiting for us in recovery. And yet there's this recovery community that is absolutely there to welcome and to make that journey easy for all of us. And I think you saw that in just that, just focusing on Buscemi's face at the end was beautiful. 

And also, if you look at his face, there's two ways of reading his reaction. One is he's sort of holding the line of saying, you know, this is serious, and you're serious, I'm serious. And, you know, we're not playing here. And on the other hand, it's being compassionate. And that's what I think is the most important thing about the recovery community and specifically, you know, treatment facilities, is that they're serious. They're holding the line. It's no nonsense. They're not playing. This isn't a game. And so, they have to convey that sort of stern resolve but also with compassion. And that's something that a lot of people on the outside, family members, friends, et cetera, sometimes they can't convey that hard line without coming off as sort of like an oppositional figure, or an enemy, or somebody who doesn't understand the other person. So a lot of family and friends programs and a lot of, and I think Rosecrance, and a lot of other places have introduced families and sort of help train families to hold the line, be very serious about what they expect out of their loved one and what they need from them, but also be compassionate. It's a very delicate balance, but played effectively, like it's conveyed in this film, that is the most powerful way to get the results that that individual who's addicted, really, ultimately needs.

Dr. Garcia, do you see that in our treatment? I'm sure, you know, not just holding the line, but also with that empathy and compassion. It must be wonderful.

Absolutely. You know, that is a fine line to walk, you know, balancing compassion without being codependent, you know, and that's something that families especially struggle with and that, you know, we try to educate at the moment. 

Let's take a look at another. This is an interesting one that I've seen a little bit of it. It's a foreign film. It's got subtitles, but it's an amazing film. It's called Another Round. So, Ted, I know this is a personal favorite of yours. It's Danish. Tell us about the film while we play some video in the background here.

Yeah, Another Round was actually, was, the last year or the year before, is a winner of the Academy Award for Best Foreign Film. And it's really a very profound meditation on alcohol use, abuse, addiction. And it posits something very profound, which is that, you know, these four teachers who are leading very boring lives in the social utopia of Danish school system realize that, you know, they come across this weird theory that, you know, people's blood alcohol isn't high enough, and if they can be at 0.08, which is just below the legal limit, you know, they could really have happier, more productive lives. And at the beginning of the movie, that actually ends up being the case. They show scenes of how these teachers now, by being slightly buzzed, are doing different kind of work and getting better results with their students, with their families, etc. But, you know, as we all know, good things can't last forever. And so, you know, they start to bend the envelope or push the envelope, as it were. And then it shows, you know, the negative consequences that not everybody, but some people do experience when they start to, you know, use and abuse alcohol. And so, it shows how, you know, addiction to any substance or behavior can lead in the direction of, you know, always needing more to get the same results. And that becomes the problem. And so it beautifully reflects that. And it also, you know, it really has asked questions of like, what is moderation? Is moderation possible? You know, does alcohol really enhance the value of certain people's lives? And why does it enhance the value of certain people's lives and not others? Why does it destroy certain people's lives and not others? And I think those are very interesting questions that are explored through the film. 

Yeah, Dr. Garcia, this is something we see in addiction too, is you take something, you take some kernel of knowledge, like this is good. It's kind of like one glass of wine is good for your health. And we take that, you know, to the extreme and say, well, if that's good, then, you know, that sets us on this path to destruction. And this film shows, I think, that really well. 

I think this is, you know, this is something that almost everybody can relate to because... of how we view alcohol in our society, and we celebrate it. We celebrate with it. And so people have different reasons why they choose to use alcohol, whether it's for celebration, for relaxation, for coping. And a film like this, I think, asks those very important questions about, yeah, but when is it too much? How can it lead to some pretty dire consequences for many people, unfortunately. 

Or is it even true? Or, you know, has something been mythicized so much? You know, like in this film, one of the first conversations I had, they said, Winston Churchill won World War II with a constant, you know, drink in his hand. And so they go, oh, well, then, you know, maybe this is good for us teaching, you know, in our teaching capacity. 

Well, you know, we love to do that. We love to make these, you know, make up these theories, you know, correlation and causation. But, you know, of course, in science, we realized that that's not always true, you know. That if you hold it up to the bright light of actual study, that many of these things do not end up being true. And, you know, in a way, it's kind of fun to romanticize that and say, oh, you know, well, Winston Churchill and his drinking, but he was a bright man. Yeah, and really was that... 

And how much truth was in that. You know, how much, you know. So let me ask you just further, Dr. Garcia, like, do you see a relevant role for movies in the journey toward recovery? 

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think, you know, I think movies, I think film, are a powerful way of connecting with people. You know, I think it brings up emotions. It helps people to, you know, to see themselves. And to empathize. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a powerful tool. And I actually use it. I like to use film clips when I give lectures myself. 

Of course, you know, I agree because that was the whole basis of my book. But then also, I've developed this program, Recovery Movie Meetups, which sort of formalizes that process. And we've shown spectacular results around the country where people are watching movies. And when they watch them in a group and then are able to discuss the films afterward, and turn casual movie viewing into rich, meaningful, substantial, interactive discussions afterward, it leads to really beneficial, highly therapeutic results. I mean, it's, it's wonderful because people think that they're, oh we get to be entertained, but then what they don't realize that they're actually doing really great work of recovery, and I think it's not a bait and switch, but it's sort of an invitation to have a deeper conversation. And I think also watching movies allows people to be prompted to talk about very difficult things that they might not otherwise be comfortable bringing up on their own. So if you're talking about, you know, if you're seeing a movie about like Four Good Days where, you know, a woman's life is being destroyed slowly by her daughter's addiction and the difficult family dynamics. If you see a movie that depicts those kinds of things, then somebody who's watching that film will be better able to bring that up and say, you know, and analyze, and talk about the damage that they've potentially been doing to their mother, or father's, or spouse's life. And it brings it up in a more organic, natural way where it's not like you're having a therapy session with somebody and saying, tell me about how you've ruined your family's life through your addiction. Instead, it's saying, well, we've seen this movie where this person's life is being, you know, hurt by somebody's addiction, you know. Do you identify and empathize with that? And the person will be like, yeah, you know, I kind of think that dot dot dot. And so it's an easier way to get into difficult conversations, and that's ultimately, I think, in therapy, in rehab, that's really what you, want, you want to bring people in and, and have them put out in a way that leads to those aha moments. And if film can be a way to precipitate that, then, you know, win-win in every way for our program. 

Let's take a quick look at that. We have Four Good Days. 

Opioids have a 97% relapse rate. 

You have gone through this 15 times.

Do you know what an opiate antagonist is? 

No. 

It's a shot we give you once a month. This shot essentially makes you immune to getting high. 

Is it safe? 

Are you kidding me? Now all of a sudden your body's a temple?

 You have to be clean for at least a week. 

Four more days, seriously?

Tired of what we've been through. I'm scared for you whenever she's around. 

Who was that? 

If I wasn't a junkie, would you even ask? 

Probably not. 

Whenever I've decided to re-engage with her, I've always done it with my eyes wide open. 

She sits around smoking, twitching, and I'm there watching her like a hawk and pretending that I'm not. 

Almost one day down. Three more to go. 

This movie is important. There's a little bit of backstory to it. It's actually based on a Washington Post article about a mother of a woman who had been to rehab and gone through detox something like 16 times, had cleaned out her bank account, had stolen from her. She had to call the police several times. I mean…is kind of like just a train wreck of a relationship. And yet she kept on bringing her back in the hope that maybe this time would be different. And, you know, when it comes to families, I think, you know, people rightly soak and say, you know, first time you fool me, shame on you. Second time you fool me, shame on me. And yet we've got something where it's happened multiple times, and this is something that a lot of people who are dealing with an addicted individual who they love, son, or daughter, or spouse, or whatever, are dealing with this, and it's very…and they have every right to become cynical, and shut down and put a fork in the road say, that's it I don't want to be in contact with you anymore. And yet that is something that can lead to somebody on the other side feeling shut out, spurned, stigmatized, and then actually overdosing or going all the way and getting into even more trouble. But yet, the person who's putting the hard line and saying I can't be in contact with you anymore is doing something for their own self-interest, for their own survival. And I think that is the balance of these two things. And so, the film is important in the sense that it explores Glenn Close giving her daughter, who she loved, who she raised from a child, who would do anything for their child. And anybody who has a child- I have a child; I would do anything for them. And yet, you know, is this going to be like all the other times? And so, the hope of the movie is that this is not going to be like those times. This time she's different. This time it's going to work. God, please make it work. And that's what's so beautiful about this film, is that this is the time. I don't want to give away the ending, but actually you don't know whether she's... cured at the very end. Anything could happen. We all know that there's a non-zero sum that anybody could relapse at any time, but there is hope at the end. And that's what I think is a great commodity to sell in these movies. It's just a sense of hope that, yeah, okay, you've been through this a million times, but this time could be different. This time it's going to be okay. 

And you certainly see that struggle between, you know, the mother and her child. Attempt to understand and to connect. And as Ted was saying earlier, sometimes film, movies could be a way to start a conversation, even amongst family members. I certainly have used that opportunity at times to have certain conversations with my own kids. Watching something. 

Yeah, you know, we all see it through, you know, the eyes of the person in treatment and recovery. This is what it looks like. This is my journey. But there's other rings out there. There's families, there's loved ones that are affected by this disease, you know, just as much. And for those people to be able to see themselves or a vision of themselves, you know, portrayed as well, that's amazing too, and necessary.

 And I work with people. I, you know, I very much believe in meeting people where they're at and, you know, working with families. You know, I've seen both ends of the spectrum. There are families who, family members who, you know, need to take that step back. You know, they need to protect themselves. They need to, you know, to recover themselves. And I support them in that. And then there are the families who, you know, we just got to keep trying. We got to keep doing this and diving into it. And I support them in that, to be able to do what they need to do. 

Well, let's go one more down the path. 

No drink service on the flight, but they did find two empty vodka bottles in the galley trash. 

Yeah. And there's no physical evidence on the bottles, no DNA, no fingerprints to link them to anyone, but they were uncapped and empty. And the only people who would have had access to those bottles would be the flight crew. Now, Margaret Evans and Mila Satow, they all had clean tox reports, so that only leaves you

Trina Marquez.

Right, Trina Marquez.

Okay. Okay, I see where we're going here. That's funny, though. You know, they only found two bottles.

Why's that? 

I drank three. One's missing.

Great movie. It's just such a journey. I love the ending, which is all about acceptance. Ted, you mentioned the film in your book, but don't talk much about it. Give me your thoughts on this movie and what it can teach us. 

I was a little torn on this film because, on the one hand, it’s an exploration of alcohol use disorder and Denzel's problem with alcohol. But also, on the other hand, it's also a look at the fact that he was able to pull off a miraculous flight maneuver that saved countless lives while he was drunk. And so, you know, I think it speaks to something very interesting in our lives, which is that people who use alcohol and drugs sometimes feel that it gives them an advantage. I knew tons of, when I was a studio executive, you know, agents at talent agencies thought that they were much more effective at negotiating if they were high on coke. People who were at parties thought that they could cut much better deals if they were kind of drunk or, more importantly, if the other person who's the client negotiating against them was drunk, and you can get more favorable terms. There's this popular conception that alcohol or drugs can give you superpowers. And so, by showing the ultimate superpower of landing a plane and saving so many people, it sort of underscores this very kind of broad moral question, which is: Can you blame somebody for doing something amazing while under the influence of alcohol? I mean, can we be mad at Churchill for being drunk when he helped win World War II? Did he have to be drunk to win World War II? Did Denzel Washington have to be drunk to land a plane? And so, by bringing out those questions, it sort of, like, lays bare the fact that while it's an interesting aspect of recovery, I didn't think that that moral question or that riddle was something that would lead to a lot of open discussions that would help people in their recovery. Although I think it's a very important film, and I certainly write about it in the book, Recovery Movie Meetups, but I didn't include it in the chapter in the book, Addicted in Film, because I didn't quite think that there was a lot there to really teach people about addiction recovery, except at the very end where he comes through and says to everybody, yes, you know, I'm drunk right now. I was drunk when I landed the plane. And then he takes responsibility for his actions. While during most of the movie, he's coming up with a clever defense as to how he's going to beat the rap by using technicalities and legalities. And his lawyers are helping him do that. And that, in a sense, him coming clean at the very end, is a really positive message that, you know, you can come up with all the justifications and legal ramblings that you want. But at the end of the day, the only thing that's going to set you truly free is honesty, rigorous honesty, and truth. And that's what's going to save your life and the lives of other people around you. And that's why I think the film is very important in that regard.

Well, it answers that question. It's like, you know, you've got two choices. Where do you think he's going to have the better life, you know, as a hero? Will his life get continually better living that life, which isn't as honest, or as a life in recovery?

You know, I think the important, probably the most important thing of the film, the lesson of the film, is at the very end when he's actually in prison and he meets with his son. And this is, you know, he's had a horrible relationship with his son because of his alcohol abuse, a horrible relationship with his ex-wife. And he's burned all those bridges. And the only thing he has is flying planes from one city to the next. He's completely divorced from any sort of social connection or affective relationship with anybody. And so, by reconciling or starting the process of reconciliation with his son at the very end, despite the fact that he's in jail, being in jail is probably the best thing that could ever happen to him because now he's sober and he can do the work of reconstructing his life and his relationships with his son and his ex-wife and the world around him. And that's kind of true. When people get out of rehab, they've hit rock bottom, or they've gone to prison. But now the construction of a new life, a better life, a real life, that's when the work begins. And that's what's conveyed in the film so beautifully. 

It's an amazing thing in recovery to…you've realized you've damaged all these relationships. And in recovery, you realize that you have now the power to repair those relationships. You didn't think that was something you had, and we see that all the time in the work we do. Right, Dr. Garcia? 

Yeah, I think, you know, that's the myth about the so-called high-functioning alcoholic, right? I mean, it seems like they're very successful in one aspect of their life, but then the reality is oftentimes there are these other areas in their lives that are being negatively affected in an extreme way, like in their relationships with their families.

Let's keep plugging ahead. Let's go to the next clip, Crazy Heart. 

My best song ever to Tommy.

What, to record? 

Yeah, it's one of those you hate to give up. 

Why'd you do it?

Oh, he's paying me all the good. He's in L.A. now recording it.

So your boy, your boy don't want to talk to you? 

No, I don't blame him. I was wrong. I had no right to call him. 

Wait, hold on. You were wrong 25 years ago. You've been wrong since, but you called him. Now you're not wrong. You're right. He's wrong. 

Wayne, I went 24 years without trying to find him. He's right. Too little, too late. 

No, never too late, son. Never too late. You called, and it's done. All right? It's complete. Now you're on the right track. You just keep going because he's your son. All right? 

That's all we got. 

Well, you keep after him. That's what you got to do.

What does this, Ted, what does this tell us about addiction, this story? 

Well, I think it's a wonderful film that depicts something, which is in the public consciousness, and goes back to this idea of alcohol giving you superpower or giving you creativity. And it's the intersection between art and alcohol, art and substances. This idea that, you know, being drunk gives you that…sort of that spirit of country music, gives you the true heart of country music, that deep longing of depression and angst and everything. And that is the only way to convey country music. I did a study, and I looked at some data that's like, you know, 65 or whatever percent of songs-hit songs, country music songs-have something to do with alcohol. And, you know, country music stories, alcohol is a centerpiece of their ethos. You know, a lot of these country music stories have their own liquor brands. They have their own bar chains. Liquor sponsors are the bigger sponsors of their concerts. Drinking during the concerts is part of the whole relationship with their audience. And so, this shows, this movie shows that, you know, somebody who's in the waning parts of his career, alcohol that may have been something that propelled his career at the very beginning in his audience, has now become something that is slowly ruining his life. And so, by showing him trying to do the work of recovery and trying to get better, not so much to reclaim his lost stardom, although that would be nice too, but also to reclaim, as we saw in that clip, the relationship with his son that he hasn't spoken to in 25 years. That's a very positive step in the right direction. And Jeff Bridges, who won the Academy Award for Best Actor for that role, really beautifully shows that it's never too late for redemption.  It's never too late to give it a second shot. I mean, his career is over. You know, he's a has-been. He's playing drunk at bowling alleys where he used to be in sold-out stadiums, but that's not what life is anymore. He's got to adjust to a new reality. And what's beautiful about the film is that at the very end, he's really stuck, because of the work that he does in recovery and the fact that he's now sober, he starts to write songs again, and he realizes that creativity is not necessarily predicated by being drunk, in fact, quite the opposite. And that's something I think is worth showing the public, that yes, you know, Hemingway was a classic, you know, crazy alcohol-wielding artist, but he wasn't drunk when he wrote. And you'd be hard-pressed to find artists who say that being drunk is part of what they need to be doing when they're actually executing their art form. But it does inspire their art form. And so, there's a disconnect between those two forces. And who knows what Hemingway or any other artist or Crazy Heart would have... Jeff Bridges would have been if they hadn't had the ball and chain of alcohol around their, their leg during their careers. You know, who knows what Faulkner, how many more novels Faulkner could have produced, you know, if they, if they had been sober. 

It seems like it gives you superpowers, and maybe it does a little bit, maybe there is a little bit magic. But, you know, there's also the saying magic comes at a price. And, and also,  I like how, like in this film, it does show that, you know, being human, just being human can be its own superpower, that you can accomplish a lot of things just being human. 

Yeah. You know, and also, I think on a philosophical level, it's kind of interesting because, you know, throughout history, people live very linear lives, and they come to expect certain things, and they think reality is one thing. And then you have somebody who's euphoric on alcohol or drugs and who says or creates something so out of the ordinary that everyone's like, wow, that's incredible. It only could have happened because of this. There's a parallel to two people who were schizophrenic or manic-depressive disorders or just flat out nuts, who became prophets, who came up with crazy ideas, and that became part of religion in a sense. So, the more out there you are, the more creative and innovative and like off the grid, the more, sometimes, people have a sense that you're in touch with a deeper reality, with even a higher reality, maybe a divine reality. And that has led to some very interesting results in society. And that's what perpetuates the myth. It's somebody who's off the grid, sometimes can be feared, but also, they have to be respected because they just came up with something amazing. And like, wow, and it took alcohol to get there.  Maybe it did. I don't, you know, that's the question. We don't know. We just know that too much is a problem.

I love that in a lot of these films, you know, there's this danger that people, you know, are hesitant about the triggering effect. 

A lot of times people ask, as part of our Recovery Movie Movie program, they say, well, won't showing movies about addiction and recovery and people using be triggering? Isn't that a problem? Is this counterproductive? Quite frankly, I developed recovery movie meetups because I was familiar with a pain point in the recovery sector, which is that people that I spoke to, and I have a large network of people who have read my book, et cetera, and said, you know, I'm glad you wrote the book because… and you developed the program, because I was in rehab and they would put on a movie and they'd say, good luck with that. And then they would tell us why they're showing the movie. And then we would go back to our rooms and try to figure out why they wanted us to watch a bunch of people getting drunk and ruining their lives. I mean, what was the point of that? And so, Recovery Movie Meetups addresses that pain point and resolves it by formalizing it in a way where you introduce the movie, you tell people why it's important. You tell people in the meeting what this movie could teach them.  What are some of the things that they could get out of this movie? And by properly contextualizing the movie and its utility in a therapeutic setting, people are now open to seeing the movie for what it can be as opposed to what it can simply be in two dimensions. And by doing that, if somebody is triggered or there's something about the film that gets under their skin, what a more perfect instance for them to talk that out in a public way with a trained facilitator in the sense that, like, you know, if recovery movie meetups leads to triggers, our response is great. That's the whole point. Because then you could talk about it. Because when you leave rehab, you're going to be triggered the next time you drive by the 7-Eleven where you drank, where you bought all your beer, or that corner where you used to buy from your dealer. You're going to be dealing with those urges. But if you can see use and abuse on the big screen in a therapeutic setting and talk about those urges in real time, that has real therapeutic value, we feel. And that's why we created the program to do just that. 

I agree with that wholeheartedly. You know, as a psychiatrist, I was trained in the tradition of everything is grist for the milk. And, you know, it really depends on, yeah, exactly how do you introduce it and then what do you do with it? Even in trauma therapy, right? I mean, we do exposure therapy. We expose people sometimes to triggering events. But then what do you do with that? How do you process it? You don't want to just trigger people and then leave them there. It's important to then help them process it in a helpful way. 

I just think as we move in from treatment to recovery, certainly this is an amazing kind of tool to use. 

Absolutely. I mean, in recovery, you know, we're in the business of hope, right? 

Yeah. 

And so, I think films can be definitely a very, very powerful tool in giving people hope when they show these journeys and how people can be successful.

And Hollywood is paying attention. I've spoken to Ben Affleck about this, and he's a big supporter. I recently interviewed Susanna Grant, who's the Oscar-nominated writer of Erin Brockovich and also wrote 28 Days. And she was surprised but deeply grateful for the fact that her movie is being seen and is being used as a way to help people through recovery. Because she, like many people in Hollywood, knows a lot of people who are suffering from that issue and overcome it. And, you know, and Jeff Bridges as well, you know, just delighted by the fact that, that these movies can, can have an impact on,on what they're doing. Bradley Cooper as well, you know, he's, he's doing a show for Netflix right now about trauma. But he also agrees that, that showing addiction and recovery successfully, or even like with a sad ending like Star is Born, that has tremendous value. And as you know, you know, Bradley Cooper's in long- term sobriety as well. So it….and, and, Ben Affleck is as well.

Yeah, that's the beautiful thing. It's not just the movies. It's actually these role models, these celebrities that we look to, are now being vocal about their own recovery journey. And more and more are jumping on that bandwagon. And it's fantastic to hear their stories and being open about that.

Yeah, I'm sort of bummed out that I'm very sad that Matthew Perry passed away because  we had been in contact through his manager, and we're trying to figure out a way that he could become involved in recovery movie meetups. And he has a foundation, and we had started a conversation about how we could use some of the foundation funds to fund free workbooks for non-profit recovery community organizations who might need free access to our workbook to help people recover, but sadly he passed away. 

Well, I think you're going to find more people out there willing to do that. I think it's a growing thing. You know, it is sad that Matthew's not with us, but I think this is a growing trend. And I'm very happy that this industry, this powerful communication industry, is on board.

Yeah. Well, I mean, think about it. You know, when the nation went to war, Hollywood, Frank Capper, there's a whole documentary about this, how Hollywood galvanized its stars to sell bonds, to sell this, to sell that this, to sell an inscription to, you know, to really come and help the cause. You know, Hollywood has a very important powerful role to play in the addiction crisis in America, and they've just started to scratch the surface, and that's why I wanted to bring our program to their understanding and, and hope that there's more honest films about addiction recovery made that could help people recover through our program as well.

 Yeah, what a great conversation we had today. I want to thank my guests for all of that. Thank you, Dr. Garcia. Thank you, Ted Perkins. You can pick up Ted's book, Addicted in Film: Movies We Love About the Habits We Hate, and access his workbook on Amazon. This has been On Your Radar, a podcast series produced by Rosecrance with locations in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa.

Remember, you can make a difference in your own life and the lives of others who are struggling and don't know where to turn. Help is just a click away, visit rosecrance.org for more guidance and information. 

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