Ep. #52: Cole Stevens, CSO of Stevens Trucking Co.

In this episode, Andrew welcomes Cole Stevens, chief strategy officer at Stevens Trucking, a family-owned trucking company based in Oklahoma. Cole’s dad, Kenney, founded the business in 1979 with a single hotshot pickup truck in an Oklahoma oil patch. Today, they operate 400 tractors and 1,800 dry van trailers across the U.S. 

Andrew and Cole cover:

• The founding story of Stevens Trucking and how the Stevens family uniquely runs the business.
• All that Cole has learned from his dad about business and leadership, and what Cole believes has led to his dad’s success.
• How Cole evaluates what new tech to bring into the business, how he thinks about tech for a team of employees ranging in age from 20 to 80, and the three things you have to get right to ensure internal adoption.
• The current tech landscape for asset-based providers and where Cole sees the greatest opportunity.
• The challenges of managing drivers and driver turnover and how to get drivers to buy in to delivering exceptional service for Stevens Trucking customers.

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*** This episode is brought to you by Rapido Solutions Group. I had the pleasure of working with Danny Frisco and Roberto Icaza at Coyote, as well as being a client of theirs more recently at MoLo. Their team does a great job supplying nearshore talent to brokers, carriers, and technology providers to handle any role necessary, be it customer or carrier support, back office, or tech services. Visit gorapido.com to learn more. ***

A special thanks to our additional sponsors:

• Cargado – Cargado is the first platform that connects logistics companies and trucking companies that move freight into and out of Mexico. Visit cargado.com to learn more.
• Greenscreens.ai – Greenscreens.ai is the AI-powered pricing and market intelligence tool transforming how freight brokers price freight. Visit greenscreens.ai/freightpod today!
• Metafora – Metafora is a technology consulting firm that has delivered value for over a decade to brokers, shippers, carriers, private equity firms, and freight tech companies. Check them out at metafora.net. ***

Chapters

• 0:01 Building Relationships in Business Through Transparency
• 9:21 Success and Growth in Trucking Business
• 21:29 Family Dynamics in Business Success
• 35:08 Navigating Technology Adoption and Human Dynamics
• 43:09 Navigating Internal Sales Pitches in Business
• 48:56 Leveraging Technology for Efficiency and Growth
• 57:34 Sales Approach and Customer Service Alignment
• 1:08:43 Navigating Freight Shipment Challenges
• 1:19:17 Employee Engagement and Company Culture
• 1:27:00 Freight Industry Bonding Through Sports

Transcript

Andrew Silver: 0:01

Hey listeners, before we get started today, I want to give a quick shout out and word to our sponsor, our very first sponsor, rapido Solutions Group, danny Frisco and Roberto Acasa, two longtime friends of mine, guys I've known for 10 plus years, the CEO and COO respectively, and co-founders of Rapido Solutions Group. These guys know what they're doing. I'm excited to be partnering with them to give you a little glimpse into their business. Rapido connects logistics and supply chain organizations in North America with the best near-shore talent to scale efficiently, operate on par with US-based teams and deliver superior customer service. These guys work with businesses from all sides of the industry 3PLs, carriers, logistics, software companies, whatever it may be. They'll build out a team and support whatever roles you need, whether it's customer or carrier, sales support, back office or tech services.

Andrew Silver: 0:53

These guys know logistics. They know people. It's what sets them apart in this industry. They're driven by an inside knowledge of how to recruit, hire and train within the industry and a passion to build better solutions for success. In the current marketing conditions, where everyone is trying to be more efficient, do more with less near shoring is the latest and greatest tactic that companies are deploying to do so, and Rapido is a tremendous solution for you. So check them out at gorapidocom and thank you again for being a sponsor to our show, a great partner. We look forward to working with you To our listeners. That's it. We look forward to working with you To our listeners. That's it.

Cole Stevens: 1:30

Let's get the show on the road.

Andrew Silver: 1:43

Welcome back to our friends, to our audience members. This is Andrew Silver. I'm the host of the Frey Pod and I'm joined today by none other than Cole Stevens, a guy who I've gotten to know just a little bit. I was selling a little product to him at one point and trying to get him into his TMS world and just really enjoyed our back and forth, getting to know you a little bit, seeing we both come from a similar background in the family business world and just wanted to have you on the show and let my world get to know you a little bit. Talk about freight, talk about running an asset-based company and all the other fun things that might come to mind. So how are you doing, man?

Cole Stevens: 2:22

Absolutely, andrew. Thanks for having me. Man, it's been good right Coming off. The holidays got a little weather that we were talking about nice and cold to start off the new year. Not a whole lot of golf like I would like, but we're just out here doing this trucking thing. So thanks for having me. I really appreciate it and I appreciate you know drew kind of name dropping on your podcast. He's a great friend of mine, just salt of the earth guy. I think he's going to be wildly successful in the space. Just a good, good dude.

Andrew Silver: 3:05

Yeah, you know, I'll be honest, I was not at all surprised that he dropped your name, not that I mean he could have dropped any name, but it didn't surprise me that your name came up because, again, like, I spent a little time getting to know you as we kind of showed you the mastery TMS product just to educate you a little bit on what it looked like, and one of the things that I really appreciated was just how kind of honest and forthcoming you were and how kind of genuinely sincere you were about your interest, about what you thought was cool, what you thought could be better.

Andrew Silver: 3:36

Like, just you talked about different technologies, different vendors you had seen, and I was like, okay, this guy's a really good person to do business with, just because, like they, they give like real feedback and insightful feedback and talk well about other companies. And so it was not at all surprising to me to hear Thruv come on and say, yeah, cole's been a great partner and you know. So, testament to you for carrying yourself that way, first and foremost. But I guess I'll ask a question with it Like, is how you carry yourself in your business dealings? Is that intentional? Like, are you very thoughtful about? Like? I want to show up a certain way, or is this just kind of the natural kind of how you are?

Cole Stevens: 4:23

I think it's just how I was wired. Um, you know, everybody, my father's name's Kenny, that started our business. Everybody when I was growing up called me mini Kenny and, uh, that was always my, my nickname, and I think I get that from him. You know that we just always kind of go, go, go and sometimes, you know, the uh, the lack of filter can pay off. It can sometimes, you know, hurt some feelings along the way, unintentionally.

Cole Stevens: 4:53

Um, but you know, I just I just try to like speak from the heart, tell people the truth, and it's like, hey, here's my honest, like thought and opinion, and that's something I always really appreciated, like being raised by, you know, a man and a leader that carries himself that way. Is that like you may not agree, you know, with everything that he says, but like you will walk away knowing exactly where you stand with him, right, you know, and he just, I guess, having that, that leader and that example to follow, like just through life, whether it was sports, uh, you know just your relationships in school and education, and then now getting into the family business, like that's all I've ever seen and that's all that I know, and so that's kind of, you know, I would say it's how I am, but it is also how I carry, you know, my, my business, that that I try to, you know, make him proud each and every day. And I got two brothers in the family business that are the exact same way. Right, like you know, sometimes you get to have tough conversations with the driver, sometimes you get to have tough conversations with the mechanic, sometimes you get to have tough conversations with customers.

Cole Stevens: 6:02

But, like, if you're just genuine and you're like, hey, you know we're not doing a good job at this, um, I don't know that we can handle this, it's a little outside of our realm. Or, hey, you know, like, uh, I'm not sure that this is, um, working with the driver, or if it is right, like, just be honest and transparent with people, you know, and, and hopefully it all shakes out in the wash. Right, that's what dad always taught us, you know, he he had a saying growing up. He said a man's word is all he has, and once he loses it, he has nothing. And it's very true that, like, just give people your word, put your head down, go to work, do them a good job. If you promised it and you know, make it happen.

Cole Stevens: 6:44

And then if you're not making it happen, be honest with them and be like, hey man, I bit off more than I can chew whatever right, and give them honest feedback because like something with me, like I love technology, like I really do, like I love, like how technology can affect, like the human experience within something that I don't want to say like is far behind, but like trucking in general, compared to some other sectors, is further behind, especially on the asset side within. You know, like the actual truckload carriage right, like brokers and 3PLs are much further advanced with their technology and so I just see the user experience on some things aren't you know where I think that they could be. And you know, trying to kind of harness and rope in that like old school mentality with like the new school usage of emerging technologies, like it, just it honestly like infatuates me, like you know how to accomplish that with people. And so to me, if I'm open and honest about like where I am with a potential product, then hopefully, being that end customer, I'm going to end up getting a better product. Because I'm open and honest and transparent with like where I see things, where I see it fitting within our business, versus somebody going down a rabbit hole, trying to create something that people don't want Quite frankly.

Cole Stevens: 8:09

I think that's where a lot of like older TMS products were, and they, a lot of them, admit that that hey, we, we like overbuilt some things that like maybe don't get used as much, versus like really like trying to seek out the customer experience.

Cole Stevens: 8:25

And that's why I really appreciated like mine in your initial conversation was like you're asking me hey, what do you like, what do you not like? Right, doing genuine customer discovery, versus just going out and just building everything known to man. You know what I mean Like wasting a lot of capital, not being able to move quick because you're trying to do something outside of maybe even what your customer's desire is Right. And so I feel like that's where you and I really aligned well is like hey, just become obsessive over like the customer experience and just be open and honest with each other about whether it's a good fit or not. You know and what you like and what you don't like, because you can take that feedback and harness it. You know and what you like and what you don't like because you can take that feedback and harness it.

Andrew Silver: 9:09

You know, I mean a hundred percent, it's, it's, you know. Just to speak to the last point, I think you and I probably sell very similarly, manage ourselves in our businesses, similarly, just in the sense of like. For me, selling was never about like ramming a product down your throat and like really hammering at home, as much as it was just trying to understand what this person was looking for and if it made sense for us to be continuing our conversation, whether that was in my time, you know, helping my father at mastery, or you know really most of my career selling freight. Um, because it's not one size fits all and it's not always going to be a partnership that makes sense.

Andrew Silver: 9:47

And I think a lot of young sellers are so eager to get business that they prioritize getting business over getting the right business. And you get the right business by partnering with people who it makes sense to partner with. And that's what happens through more kind of natural curiosity and asking the right questions to understand, like, is this the right profile for what I have to offer? Yep, so, but you know you said a lot there and I want to get into all of it. I mean especially you know some of your notes around where technology is for asset companies relative to some of the brokers. And then just I mean the way you talk about your dad and I've always kind of sensed this is there's such a level of respect and appreciation for everything that he's kind of guided you to I wouldn't say given you, but really just put you in a position to learn from. And I feel like you've got 100 quotes you could throw out at any point lessons learned from your father.

Andrew Silver: 10:48

So we're going to get into that, but I think it would only be appropriate, before we do so, if we give the audience an understanding of this business. You're a part of this business. Your father started Kenny from day one. So can you kind of take us back and walk us through kind of the story of Stephen Strucking, how it came to be what your father initially was setting out to do and what the growth journey has looked like?

Cole Stevens: 11:12

Yeah, absolutely so. My father, Kenny, started the company back in 1979. So you know, we just celebrated 45 years back in July of 24. So we're coming up on on 46 years of him, you know, starting out with a single hot shot pickup truck. You know, as he says, he was that young kid, you know, trying to sell and trying to get work. You know he drove a one ton hot shot pickup truck in the Oklahoma oil patch, hot shot pickup truck in the Oklahoma oil patch. And so he likes to joke that you know, his first six months in the business he hauled more in the floorboard of his truck than he ever did on the actual trailer. Um, just because he was just getting the scraps and just, you know, taking whatever he could get Right. And you know, I think there's a huge lesson with that is that sometimes you do, you know you're not always going to find just the perfect customer out there You've got your target, but also to sometimes you just got to get a little bit of hustle and it's a, it's a mix Right.

Cole Stevens: 12:13

And so fast forward to the late nineties. You know he was sorry, my, my deals, my, my motion sensor lights here, with us being super, uh, environmentally friendly, decided to go out, um, but you know he he was in just the old field, um, into the late nineties. And then as he tells a story, you know oil gets down to like $8 a barrel and it's just brutal, right. And he ends up being like, hey, we got to diversify a little bit, we cannot just be in such a volatile, commoditized oil and gas business, um, falling for that Right. And so you know he started hauling clutches that actually went in our trucks for Eaton corporation because they had a facility in Oklahoma city. And then we started hauling chassis and containers for Hobby Lobby container because they were also facility in Oklahoma City. And then we started hauling chassis and containers for Hobby Lobby Container because they were also our neighbor right around the corner.

Cole Stevens: 13:08

And then that built up enough for him to be able to purchase his first dry van trailer to do truckload dry van freight. I believe it's like 1999. And so you know we've been at the dry van freight business now and expanded from, you know, that one truck and oil and gas to about 400 tractors and 1800 dry van trailers across the US. And you know we specialize in drop and hook operations. So a lot of different automotive parts, a lot of different recycle parts, whether it's paper, you know, plastics, pallets, all those different types of things that are very trailer to tractor ratio heavy, where you need to try to do some more asset management and trailer pooling, um, you know, which I think is different than a lot of people that just do. You know, one truck, one trailer, one load, right, um. And so he took that just in time methodology from the oil field and he instilled that into us, which is why I feel like we've been successful in the drive-in freight business, because we got to get stuff moved Right, um, and we got to get it there on time.

Cole Stevens: 14:15

And what's crazy, andrews, like when I started in the business, you know everything was like the oil field hotshot side. We were about 60% drive in, 40% oil field back in, uh, 2015,. Whenever I first started, and you know it was crazy stressful, you know, all this stuff on the oil field side and then on the freight side, it was just like, well, you know the mentality was like, if you just get it there on the day, like it's on time, right, and that's how, like customers and shippers, like genuinely like scorecarded, and you know what I mean Like managed it. It wasn't down to the minute, like 10 years ago. And then you really saw this explosion with, you know, kind of the Amazon effect, as some people call it, with, like tracking and tracing, the emergence of four guys, project 44 and like all the lean inventory things that you know people have moved to within the supply chain and so, like now, every single load, whether it's truck load, partial, you know, hot shot on the flatbed side, still to this day it's hot, it's got to go and it better be on time to the minute right, the minute Right, and I feel like that's why we've been pretty successful.

Cole Stevens: 15:26

You know, recently is we just carry that same mentality that dad started with and he's been doing it for 45 years. Man, he's, he's awesome. I'd love for you to get a chance to meet him in person someday. You know he's a really cool, cool character. Um, you know it was a cool experience getting to meet your dad too. Man, just kind of like almost legends within like the supply chain space that like they do it because they're passionate you know what I mean Like they're just, they're here every day, like I could just hear it, you know, in Jeff's voice. He's like he eats it for breakfast, lunch and dinner and fourth meal, taco bell style, like it. Just you know what I mean. It's part of who they are, and so I did.

Cole Stevens: 16:05

When you see that as a child, like growing up, but then as a child of the business too, when you kind of step into a bit of those shoes, it's almost easy because you're just like dude, that's all I know.

Cole Stevens: 16:21

You know what I mean, like, and he's here. He's still here every day. I could open my door right now and he's probably within 10 steps of here. He's one of the first people here, he's one of the last people to leave, like, that's just who he is and that's why he's been successful in trucking is because, like, he cares about drivers, he cares about people, he cares about customers and getting their goods delivered. You know, and it's like so when you mix those three together and then the fact that he's pretty good at geography and math, like that helps in trucking right, and you know he's instilled some really good stuff. I feel like in all of us you know my two brothers it's great to get to go to work every day and battle in the trenches, you know, with them, and it's a cool experience, man, you don't realize, like, how different it is, until you talk to people that, like they don't have that Right. Um, and it's a really cool deal to get to work with your family.

Andrew Silver: 17:15

Yeah, yeah, you know it's interesting. There's so much I could pull out of that now and I will. I'm taking notes over here and um, so I don't forget these questions cause I will forget. But yeah, you know, you mentioned meeting my dad and hearing you talk about your dad, just it, it. It brings me back to thinking.

Andrew Silver: 17:34

Watching my own father and I think that's one of the cooler things for me is you know, what my father's trying to build now or is building with his team at Mastery is far and away the hardest thing he's ever done in his life, and I see it on his face. I see it in how he approaches the problems, but like he doesn't need to be doing it, like he doesn't. He sold his, he built Coyote into this great business. It was acquired by UPS. He made plenty of money where he did not need to keep working in his 50s and now in his 60s. And yet every day, like the highlight of his day, like when you and I met with him and Danielle, you could see the excitement, as he was listening to you and understanding the problems that you're dealing with.

Andrew Silver: 18:25

It's like that's what gets guys like him and your father up every day is like the idea of like solving these problems for other people and helping make their lives easier. It's like there's no amount of retirement or beach or you know vacations, skiing, whatever it is. That, I think, gives people like that the level of fulfillment they get, yeah, from helping people in the way that they do. Yep, I agree, you could run you and your brothers could run you and your brothers could run your business today and it would do great Like you've learned so many lessons from your father and the other people in the business that you could do it without him. The business is not like needing him in there every day, yet he still shows up and it's because he gets fulfillment out of. You know getting that driver on their next load. You know hearing that phone call from a customer that one of your drivers like did something that really helped them out, like that sense of pride is like so powerful.

Cole Stevens: 19:19

I feel like, oh, he's so, he's so funny and you hit the nail on the head. I mean, literally right before we hopped on, he was like literally just over my shoulder back here looking at like what project that I'm working on and what, what customer's that for you know, and just like he's so involved, like you said he doesn't have to be, but like he loves it, yeah, and that's like what he knows. I mean, I was actually just listening to Bezos talk about work-life harmony, versus like having to feel like this work-life balance and that if you give too much to one, that it takes away from the other. And I just loved how he put that, because I feel like it can be misunderstood sometimes for business owners like your dad and my dad that people think that like oh, that they have to do this, and it's like no, that's what gives them fulfillment with their day, because this business is what has given them the opportunity to give back to people. Or maybe what they're giving is their you know, their intellect and their experience and their knowledge.

Cole Stevens: 20:28

Right, and like that to me is so cool to just like watch, you know him light up, you know at the same time, but also then people that get to meet him and be like, oh wow, you know like you're, you're Kenny, like you're the guy Right, and it's cool to watch those interactions, cause like he's just, he's just dad. You know what I mean and like, but he's amazing. It's amazing to watch him just like move and be, because you're like that guy has so much experience in like real life knowledge in this space and again, you know, in your heart you're like he's here just because he chooses to be, not because he has to be. You know, and it's cool getting to like see them kind of like bouncing around like adams or something, just kind of bump into each other as people, and you're like you get to watch those moments. You're like that's really cool.

Andrew Silver: 21:18

You know, it's really really cool what he's built so I want you to try to summarize for me in a couple points. Clearly, your father and his and your, your brothers, yourself and the rest of your team have built something special right to go from to, from, from one pickup truck to 400 commercial tractors with 1,800 trailers and like a well-established, well-reputed business in the industry, some things have to go really well and the company, the team, has to be doing a few things very well. So let me ask you this from a high level If you look at the last 10, 20 years of extreme growth, what are a couple things that have really, really been keys to the success of this business and the growth.

Cole Stevens: 22:20

You know, it's kind of the Elon Musk theory, right, if your competition's working 40 hours a week and you're working 80, you're getting twice the opportunities.

Cole Stevens: 22:28

And that's not to say that we're constantly all working 80 hours a week, but collectively, as a family. You know, like I said, my dad wakes up every day and chooses to do that. And it's Saturday, it's Sunday, right, and some people could think that that's exhausting, but we shoulder, you know, that workload with a lot of pride, knowing that like, hey, we, we provide an opportunity to employment for our people and we genuinely care about our people. So like, yeah, I may have to work on Saturday or Sunday and I may have to pick up the phone, you know, while I'm at one of my kids' ball games or something, but like that's what's gotta be done. You know, and and you know I would say, hard work, obviously. You know I know it sounds corny sometimes, but like that it gives you more opportunities. The more time you spend within the business, the more experience and knowledge you're going to have within that space. You know, whether you're in the medical field education government, like it doesn't matter If you're spending time working on your craft. I feel like you're going to get better and we're super fortunate. You know that my dad's sister-in-law has been here for 40 years. My dad's been here for 45. My oldest brother, chad's been here for 22 years. My sister-in-law, jesse's been here for 21 years. That's his wife. My brother Eric's been here for 12, 13 years and then I've been here for coming up on 10. I mean so, like just the experience, I guess within the business has allowed us to thrive in some downtime. So I would definitely say hard work and then also just that experience level within the space that we're operating in provides us a big advantage.

Cole Stevens: 24:10

And then I would also say like cohesiveness as an upper management team, just because, like some people ask, they're like how do you do it Right and it's kind of a simple answer is because you have to, and it's kind of a simple answer it's because you have to. So when you create something within an org and it's a workflow that you force something to happen, it creates efficiency because you're not having a second guess If I say, hey, person A has to go talk to person B to get it cleared before it goes to person C. Well then, person A knows that they have to go talk to person B, right? Well, my entire family's in this business. So guess what? We have to figure it out Like. It's kind of simple.

Cole Stevens: 24:55

You know, the business has to come first with the decision. It's not about my middle brother, eric. It's not about youngest son, cole. It's not about oldest brother, chad, and maybe what we want for our silo within the business. It's about what is best for Stevens Trucking. Genuinely, we analyze that type of stuff when we make our decisions and that's what it comes down to.

Cole Stevens: 25:18

I'm kind of the strategy, sales, contract pricing, emerging technology guy, a a little more forward facing and sometimes outside the business, while my two older brothers do a lot more of like the management of personnel and drivers and the day-to-day operations and execution with equipment on the operator side. And so sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but you're always winning if you ultimately like make your true North. What's best for your business Right and that to me is where we work really well together is no matter what. At the end of the day, you kind of have to right Cause like we have to be successful. We're all in this business unless, you know, unless I want to have to find a new way to feed my children. Right, like, maybe Cole's not right today, right, but you know, as a whole, stephen's trucking will be in the end.

Andrew Silver: 26:12

Yeah, I'm curious because you're you're you're hitting so much on the family oriented nature of the business that we should talk about it a little bit. I have my own feelings, having worked in what wasn't a formal family business but where there were family marks all over the business, and I'm just curious, like let's start with some of the positives, Give me a little bit of both. So like I guess, to start, were you always going to work in the business or did you ever even consider not staying in the fam? Well, staying in the fam, but not staying in the business. Or did you ever even consider not staying in the fam?

Cole Stevens: 26:48

Well, stay in the fam but not staying in the family business. It's. It's kind of funny because, like people ask all the time, you know, did you like grow up there? And yeah, we spent like a lot of time because dad was in the business, but, honestly, like I don't know, not to just try to keep pumping them up, but he's kind of like Superman, like genuinely he made the work happen but he didn't bring it home somehow and so like he protected us, like from the business and from feeling like we had to do that.

Cole Stevens: 27:15

Um, you know, each one of us is fortunate enough to be college educated, so we went to school after we didn't just jump right into the family business Um, we didn't just jump right into the family business, but our life paths all led all three of us sons into the family business and into roles that I feel like suit us incredibly well. You know, honestly, like I played baseball my whole life growing up, I genuinely thought I had an opportunity to play professional baseball, whether that was at a low level or at a high level, you know, and I wanted to pursue that, ended up getting hurt, finished my education at the University of Oklahoma and jumped right into family business, being, you know, the last brother, the youngest, into the business. You know, same thing my brother's got his MBA. He really wasn't necessarily planning on getting into the business, but his life path also led him here a couple of years before me. And so it's like I don't know.

Cole Stevens: 28:11

Sometimes, at the end of the day, andrew just feels like meant to be, because like it wasn't forced, like that's what you know. People ask did you know about all this stuff? I'm like no, like I didn't start learning it until I got here, genuinely Like dad. Dad was very good about trying to not force what he did onto us boys. You know, he really let us choose our own path and it just so happened to all lead here. Yeah, he's behind my camera, right?

Andrew Silver: 28:39

now telling me to say this yeah, yeah, say this now here's your card. Yeah, exactly, yeah, he's got the cards for you, yeah. So let's, let's, let's talk about the more challenging parts of being in a family business, like for one, like what, what, what have been some of the more difficult aspects of working. You know, side-by-side with your brothers, for your father, what are the hard parts of of that reality.

Cole Stevens: 29:11

There's different personalities, right, and so like I feel like if it was, you know, regular coworker, right, like you can go home and you can vent to your spouse about that, right, that's a massive no, no, like you don't. You don't ever talk negatively about your family, right, so like sometimes, even if you have a disagreement you know what I mean you keep everything civil. But like sometimes you got to bottle it up because you're like I'm I'm not going to, you know, speak illy about, like my brother or something to my wife. Right, and so like sometimes people get a bit of that vent, I think, when they go home.

Cole Stevens: 29:50

Um and like, again, our life revolves around the business. So sometimes you do have to shoulder that. Right, but again, it helps you sleep at night, even though it would be considered a negative to most people. Like it helps you sleep at night knowing that you're doing what's best, like, for your family unit. Like people probably think we're insane. But like do we live on the same compound? I was telling you about my dogs earlier. Like we literally lay, live on the same large piece of property. Um, we vacation together, we work together. Like my brothers are my best friends.

Andrew Silver: 30:27

Yeah, each of your brothers has a house on the same compound, yep and your dad and dad.

Cole Stevens: 30:32

Yeah, that's awesome, yeah, and what's great. Like, like I said, I went off to college, you know, played ball across the country, lived a couple of years in Phoenix, arizona, so like we've all gone out and done our own things. It's not like, oh, you know, we we started building these houses when these boys were 10 or something like. No, we, we genuinely love and care about each other and we want our kids to have the same like cohesive family unit experience that we did growing up as kids and like you know, but why not? It's like I enjoy hanging out with my, with my brothers, and I enjoy hanging out with my father, like he's, you know, one of the closest people in my entire life and you know I feel like did a great job as a businessman, but also as a father that, like his kids want to be around him. You know, like there, there are worse things in life that you see, Right, um, and so I'm just super, super fortunate to have him as a leader. Um, but it's not lip service, man. Like you know, he didn't uh, he didn't like tie us down and say, hey, I built y'all houses, come, come, move in. Like you know, it was a decision that my wife and I made, and and so did all the brothers. And like, again, we live together, we, we, we play together, we vacation. You know what I mean. Like we do all those types of things because we enjoy each other's company, you know.

Cole Stevens: 31:56

But, like you said, sometimes there are, there are disagreements, so you have to shoulder it Because, again, you're not going to vent. If you do, that's a really quick way to tear apart a family business, and those I feel like are the stories that you hear about is that they can't necessarily put the family business and the mission over one of the individual personalities. You know it could be whether there's two people, four people, six people from the same family, whatever it is, in the same business. Like you just have to keep that true North and realize that I joke with people all the time. Like my wife is the closest person in my life. Do I agree with my wife on every single thing? And the answer is no, right. Like she is my best friend, she is, and and she's who I lean on the most, um, but do I agree with her on everything? No, so why would I expect to get along with my brothers or a coworker? You know what I mean who's a little further extended from that family circle. So it's like, don't take life too seriously and get so wrapped up in. I got to be right, you know.

Cole Stevens: 33:02

Again back to dad's sayings. He always says the cost of being right can be incredibly high, and that's it's something that sometimes I have to bite my tongue Cause I'm like it's not worth being right right now, whether that's with family, with a customer. You know what I mean. Like sometimes you may know you're right, but sometimes you need to, you need to be slow, to slow to speak and bite that tongue and just be like you know what it's not worth being right, because that could come at a really, really high cost yeah, I've heard a similar one from my own father and that's one that's been hard for my dumb brain to accept.

Andrew Silver: 33:39

The stubborn part of my brain is like but I am right, and it refuses to accept the cost it will pay to confirm that was right. Yeah, there's plenty of examples for me to lean on to show that that that theory is is true. But, um, all right, well listen, let's, let's move off the, the, the family stuff for a bit here. Let's transition. So part of your role is, as you mentioned, kind of emerging technologies, and you had talked about how I mean we can both acknowledge the industry in general is generally behind as it relates to implementing technology to be more efficient and even more so within that, asset carriers tend to be further behind than the brokers are. So talk a little bit about. You know your business is a legacy asset-based carrier trucking company that has a lot of old technology, I'm sure still kind of within it in some capacity. How challenging is it for you to evaluate emerging technologies and understand what you even can implement or the ROI on implementing something, given that it can be hard to bring new technology and tie it into old stuff?

Cole Stevens: 35:05

It's a huge lesson that I've had to learn. Sometimes there's been some incredibly expensive lessons that I've had to learn and then whenever you throw in the human element and change management and adoption, that's a whole nother can of worms internally. You know, first you got to figure out can you actually integrate it with your process and can the technology actually hold up, and then that's kind of you know, domino number one to fall. And then you've got to get the buy-in from the people. If you come to some type of, you know, technology vendor agreement as to how you're going to execute and do the change management processes to get it actually up and off the ground. And you know, being over strategy in my seat, like that, that's genuinely what I spend a lot of time doing. And you know there's there's a there's a good amount of no's I will say right, it doesn't mean that like I'm not open to having conversations with vendors about, like, what they might be selling. But again to your point, kind of early in the conversation, like you just have to be genuine with people that hey, I've tested something like that. We're not even to the point of being able to integrate there, it's not on our roadmap, we can't quite go there yet, maybe in a year, maybe it's two years, maybe it's never right, but just being able to like identify those internal points of where your business is at today and what systems that you're using and what their capabilities are, to me is like one of the most important aspects of like the asset kind of legacy truck load side of the business that is further behind in technology.

Cole Stevens: 36:49

I think I love watching the game be played between like the the asset carrier, and the broker, because it's like this bouncing ping pong ball of like you know what I mean Like that we're trying to catch up on technology, the brokers are catching up on like sourcing the assets, and then, you know, it goes back, just back and forth, back and forth, of like just this kind of neck and neck race and they're in two, two different races almost you know what I mean. It gets like one started way over here and the other one started way over here and they're both going parallel but they're both kind of moving closer to center with being able to like give some of the same service offerings, and the asset side is just hyper-focused on technology to catch back up with where the brokers are, but then the brokers are focusing on things like drop trailers, you know, short-term trailer rentals, like solving for the parking, and how to offer things on fuel that typically only the asset carriers focused on for 20, 25 years or whatever. So that's why I like having conversations with like you and your dad is just seeing like we're in the same game but we had two different starting points, but those starting points and the races that we're running are actually just getting closer and closer and closer together. I feel you know, the longer that time goes on, we we still have our strong points assets do versus brokers and vice versa. Uh, but it's really cool to me, like watching, watching that like rat race almost play out, you know, and just I don't know, getting to be a part of like trying to drive some change on the asset side, cause again there are some like really archaic processes, um, but also, too, there's the paradigm of like new school versus old school human beings too, right. So, like it's, it's cool.

Cole Stevens: 38:46

When I started in the business, I started out as a regular sales rep and the person that I was making sales calls with was triple my age, almost quadruple my age, um, cause I was young and, looking back, you know, I dad, tried to make us work our way up through the ranks, so I started out being a local donut delivery guy in the oil patch and just slowly worked my way up to management positions. But like you look at the fact that, like we've got people you know, when I started I was 22. And then we got people that are like 80, right. So like not only managing technology and whether it's old or new technology and how to cohesively make those two come together, but then literally the human being side. That is like hey, I've got this 25 year old kid right. That is like I understand this, I know this, I want to get this done.

Cole Stevens: 39:42

And then you've got more of an old school thinker that might be between 60 and 80.

Cole Stevens: 39:45

That's like, yeah, but like this has worked and both are right. You know what I mean. But try to get them both to an answer and an agreement. Like that's what gets me out of bed. Like it really is. It's like if I can solve that, I'll be so much further ahead than other people that just throw their hands up and let those two people have a disagreement and never make it come together with a solution to that problem. Right Like that, that critical thinking, and like getting people in technology together and both seeing the pros and cons of the other side, like I don't know. Sometimes I feel like a bit of a therapist because you have to, you literally have to put on the hat for both sides to try to see it from their perspective so that you can explain it to them and the other side, and I get a lot of enjoyment out of like trying to dig and see how I can solve those problems and help our company win you know it's a neat position.

Andrew Silver: 40:49

Yeah, I mean, you strike me as someone. Compassion is a redeeming quality of yours and I think you have the ability to look at the 25-year-old and look at the 65-year-old and connect with both of them in a way that you understand, you can suffer with them and understand the challenges the 25-year-old and connect with both of them in a way that you understand, you can suffer with them and understand that the challenges the 25-year-old has and the challenges the 65-year-old has, they both might have the same job. They're going at it from two completely different perspectives. You know the 65-year-old is still somewhat maybe thinking in the old school donut delivery mindset of listen. I know how to get you we. We have, we get them donuts. We sit down, we talk to them for two hours, we figure out how their kids are doing, then we talk business.

Andrew Silver: 41:28

The 25 year old, with the attention span of a gnat, is more like I need to craft the perfect email that makes it clear I can provide value in under four words yep. And it's like how do you get those two worlds to to intertwine and realize they're on the same team? They have two different approaches but both can be successful. But you have to purchase a tool that allows both of them to kind of work efficiently. So I I feel, for I have I have compassion for your position and I'm just curious like you mentioned, the human adoption piece is one challenge of adopt, of implementing new technology. Do you have examples historical lessons you've learned, or examples where, like you, thought you were getting a great, nifty new technology but the adoption just wasn't there? And why it wasn't there? Like what challenges you ran into? You don't have to call out anybody by name or whatever. I'm just curious for the audience man.

Cole Stevens: 42:30

We've even built some internal tools and things like to try to, you know, stack up and add on or, you know, optimize a workflow or something you know optimize a workflow or something and spend a good amount of money doing those and totally failed on it because maybe we weren't good with our internal delivery, on the actual change management piece, with how we were going to roll that out, and so we never got that internal champion Right. And those are, again, expensive and really tough lessons to learn. But there are lessons that have to be learned if you're gonna continue to move forward and get to understand how that technology is going to affect those people. And also, too, sometimes it's a bit of a sales pitch, right, just like our fleet managers that have to sometimes sell a load to a driver and I know you're familiar with that on the brokerage side right, you're like man, I really need this guy or gal to take this freight, and you got to put that sales hat on. Sometimes, and a lot of the time, it's an internal sales pitch to your people. And again back to that like understanding the seat that they're in is that you're trying to solve a problem for them, not make it harder for them right, and if you get the technology right and you do the proper customer discovery and you can put that sales pitch on.

Cole Stevens: 43:49

That's kind of where I failed at a pretty major project here a couple of years ago that, like I didn't, we did all the customer discovery, we had done all this internal work, we created this product and then just couldn't quite get that internal champion to grab the bull by the horns and run with it. You got to have like all three of those steps right, and so that's where some of these new processes that are coming on, before I say yes, I make sure that, like, it is sellable right, that like, if I'm like, hey, I'm going to add this feature on, I'm going to add this technology on something like that, it genuinely has to be sellable to our internal people, or else I won't get that adoption on a technology I just won't. Right, you know, if you say, hey, this is going to make your life easier, and here's how that's a lot easier of a pill to swallow than just, hey, the Stevens family is just throwing this stuff downstream hoping something sticks Right. Um, so that's like I said, that's a. That's a lesson that I've been fortunate enough to learn. I mean, you know some, some failures along the way, um, admittedly, but I feel like we've done a really good job as a family with, like, reeling some of those back in um and trying to make some, some pivots here and there with, okay, you know, maybe that wasn't quite as successful, but here's, here's the exact path, um, that we're on, cause it's a journey like it's not going to stop. I just think it's going to keep picking up steam.

Cole Stevens: 45:23

Honestly, I mean, technology is making the world move so much quicker that, like, if you don't keep moving forward, you will get left behind. I genuinely believe that. I don't think. I don't think technology will solve everything. I mean, who knows, I don't have a crystal ball, right, like it may solve some major things in my lifetime. I don't know that I'm going to have this robot telling me what to do and you don't. I mean, I don't know, maybe, maybe, right, but I know that's what I mean Like we'll see. I don't want to sound like our dads and be like never in my lifetime, cause then they'll play that clip back someday and be like, see, they proved you wrong. You were wrong about this big one, right? Yep, you know, but it can't stop you from moving forward. You know, no matter what no-transcript.

Andrew Silver: 46:44

It helps them feel more valuable as their feedback is heard and makes them that much more likely to buy into the product once you kind of go live with it. But two, they also might bring to the fold some of the important reasons why you wouldn't have a champion If you're missing something, if you're not catching one piece, that will impact them in a negative way. I think I just was listening to a podcast, the Modern Wisdom podcast, which I don't listen to often, but I saw Tony Robbins was on it and I got intrigued and I just, you know, ryan Peterson told me a little bit about Tony Robbins. That got me focused on him. But in any case he was talking about, I think, what he called it priming and then maybe it was called pre-framing, and it's just the idea that before there's an action that's gonna take place which is you're gonna implement a new technology, and you know a result of that is your people are gonna kind of have to absorb that and then use it in some capacity. You can't control the output, you can't control how they respond to that new technology being implemented, but what you can control is how they receive the information about it and so you can take measures to in advance, kind of pre-frame them or prime them to take it in in a way that you think will be most likely for them to accept it.

Andrew Silver: 48:04

And what I mean by that is getting them involved on the front end. That's just an ample opportunity for you to make them feel more involved and make them feel like their voice matters and their feedback is important to the business. And now you've just kind of changed the way they receive the information. So in one setting you make a decision that impacts them. You give them that decision. They receive it by being told this is the decision. Use it. How they respond their own emotional stuff may show up. Their own control stuff may show up in a way that makes them not want to use it. The alternative way is you bring them in on the front end, knowing you're contemplating this decision. The alternative way is you bring them in on the front end, knowing you're contemplating this decision so the first they're hearing about it is not being told to use it, versus I want to hear your perspective on it and then they just they take it in in such a different way that makes them more likely to help you reach your end goal, yep.

Cole Stevens: 48:56

And I think that's where I failed, admittedly, internally was like not, not not priming that, like we had some, some basic discussion about it and some kind of what if? Type discussion, um, and then you know again kind of didn't get it internally primed and then fully sold with that internal champion. I think I'm going to just go put like little mastery logos, like like just I'm going to hide them in the paint on the walls and start priming them to where it's like. It's like the marketing deal where you get hungry and you're like man, mcdonald's sounds great with the golden arches. I'm just going to be like like little mastery deals, like everywhere they're not even going to know They'll be like what is that? And then, like you know, later down the road I'll be like and then, like you know, later down the road I'll be like dude, I was priming you the entire time. The ultimate. Now you're ready. Yeah, now you're ready. Yeah, you didn't even know it, you didn't even know that you were getting primed right there.

Andrew Silver: 49:54

Yep primed you back on the kind of technology conversation. What are some of the things that you've been able to implement in your business in the last year or two years to kind of bring about more efficiency? Like how, where are you what, what, what areas it does an asset-based carrier focus on? Or where do you see the most opportunity to create kind of efficiency in the business today? Because I come from that broker mindset, so it it's a little different, so I'd love to educate the audience on, like where an asset-based carrier could use more technology to be efficient.

Cole Stevens: 50:31

I think one of the greatest decisions that we ever made was trailer tracking, you know, and that's through our telematics provider. Originally we did it totally manually so if, for some reason, somewhere along the line, a dispatch was wrong or a trailer got moved or pulled out. Now, having 1800 trailers, I feel like that's what's allowed for quite a bit of explosive growth on the asset management trailer side of our business. I have no idea how we did it before. Quite frankly, we had, you know, probably half the trailers, uh, before we implemented that. But that, to me, was one of the biggest things. And, like you know, we're we're almost like a customer of like our own business model per se. Right, it's like we need tracking and visibility, just like a customer does into our own stuff, because if it's not right here you know what I mean it's not, it's not tangible. You don't want it right here, I want it out on the roads picking up and delivering freight. And I feel like that was just a huge game changer for us is, you know, picking the right software and telematics provider, but also the ones that have the right hardware for like whatever your business model is. Some people, you know if they're doing like little parcels. I've seen these small trackers and different things that they just put, you know, in a palette and it's like, okay, cool If that's what you're doing, you know, if you're doing parcels. I would strongly recommend that, even though I'm not a user, just because understanding how important it is to be able to just track your own stuff is like bar none. Like I don't think you could hardly put a number and value to that. If you're like losing trailers all over the country being an asset carrier, that's not very good and it's not very efficient and it's driven a lot of efficiencies to our business and also given transparency to our customers. Because if you get into some of the like brokering power only model, if for some reason, you've got, you know, a truck breakdown, et cetera, that's where the freight is at right.

Cole Stevens: 52:29

I'm a huge proponent of, like, smart trailer technology. I mean, obviously, the tractors are just incredible nowadays with what they're souped up with and all the safety tech and all that is amazing and we, you know, always do the full suite of those types of things on our tractors. But, like, I think one of the new huge areas that you're going to see making big advances is the smart trailer. Um, you know that that silo within the asset side is like how can you get almost more hardware and more data coming from the trailer? You know more and more and more, because again that's where the cargo is at, whether it's like fraud and theft protection you know what I mean and like how that integrates and create some automated processes, et cetera.

Cole Stevens: 53:14

You know, I just think that that's going to be a big silo that takes off because again you can have all the automated AI tools that are telling you to do this, do that, go left, go right, but ultimately, like there's a hard asset within that trailer and I think that's something to be paid attention to over the coming years. As these advances in technology keep coming, I feel like the smart trailer side has room for growth and opportunities. I really do.

Andrew Silver: 53:45

Well, I mean, is it true to say there's a fundamental flaw in the idea of brokers and shippers tracking drivers through cell phones when it comes to working with companies like yourself? Because there's a reasonable chance that you're going to have one driver go pick up the load with their tractor and it's got trailer 1, 2, 3, 4, and they're going to take it to a certain point when another driver is going to, or they might take it to the yard and another driver is going to pick up that same trailer and he's going to deliver it, or he's going to take it to another city where you have a yard, and then maybe a third driver might grab it and actually deliver the load. The only constant in a lot of these situations is the trailer, the driver, the driver's cell phone number, the truck. Those all could be variables that whether there's one or three or five on a given load, anything could happen. The only thing that doesn't change is the trailer. So should that not be the single source of truth, theoretically, for tracking?

Cole Stevens: 54:53

I agree with you. We've been through that with various shippers and various you know track and trace companies for shippers and various you know track and trace companies and that's kind of what that's why we made the capital investment into those trailer trackers and so any company that has that capability, that's what we try to go with. Right, because, again, you're exactly right, we run a lot of hub and spoke model because we try to optimize our driver's hours of service. So, like, if it's a live load, live unload, to try to keep our our really revenue generating drivers OTR and regional moving, we will do the pickup and the delivery for them. So, you're exactly right, like it could switch between two to three trucks within the exact same company. Because we're trying to optimize that asset utilization with that driver's hours of service. That could be a really hard runner that otherwise would be sitting there being detained, taking a two-day transit into three, et cetera.

Cole Stevens: 55:53

And you're right, that single source of truth and that constant is the trailer, because that's where the cargo is at and that's what people care about. That's what people care about If it goes missing, right? They're not like, well, where's the tractor? They're like if you could track the trailer, they're like where's my cargo right? Like that's, that's what every shipper wants to know. They don't care. They don't care if you're a broker, they don't care if you call yourself a 3PL, a 4PL, an asset carrier hey, where's my stuff right? Whether you can't tell them where it is or whether there's been fraud or theft happen. And again, I think that's why it's got room for growth in that space, within like asset management and like the smart asset trailer space, I believe. But again, you know there's some cool tech already out there, but I think that there's even cooler tech being developed and still coming, and that's a big area that, like I'm, I'm super excited for.

Andrew Silver: 56:57

Yeah, and let's stay on the topic here of kind of the drop and hook model. Yeah, and let's stay on the topic here of kind of the drop and hook model, the hub and spoke model and being a carrier that has a four and a half to one ratio of trailers to tractors, so you're not the smallest piece of the market. You probably. Your type of business represents a very large percent of the actual capacity, but in terms of the number of companies, it's a smaller percent of the market. But you know again, it represents a large part of the capacity. But in terms of the number of companies, it's a smaller percent of the market, but you know, again, it represents a large part of the capacity.

Andrew Silver: 57:27

So I'm just curious, let's just give the audience a little bit of an understanding of what it's like selling for a company like yours. You know a lot of my, a lot of my audience is freight brokers or a lot of the guests have been freight brokers where you know we've got to email someone 10 times before they're likely to potentially even respond once because of how competitive and undifferentiated brokerage can be. What is the sales process like for you when you're reaching out on behalf of Stevens Trucking Like, walk me through, do you run into a lot of issues where you're just ignored off the jump. Or do you put 400 trucks in big bold letters, like I have 400 trucks, talk to me, talk me through that process a little bit.

Cole Stevens: 58:12

I've seen it all, Andrew. Honestly, like there's been times that I've been fully onboarded as a carrier and awarded freight and then all of a sudden they're like, oh, that was an error. And you don't hear from them for five years, right, Like, genuinely, there's been some weird, weird stuff. Like you know, no email response hey, that's fine. No LinkedIn response, hey, whatever. But to like, hey, we got a contract, we awarded you freight, here you go, and then we're like, hey, where's the tenders? They're like, oh, that was, that was on accident. And then you're going on like four years of no follow-up. Like that's kind of different, right, that's, it's not everybody's normal Monday. Um, so we, I would say we've seen it all. But I will say, like we have an awesome sales team. But you know, I'll never forget I was like a month into the job and we were doing some work for a big automotive company and we go up to Detroit right, If that can give you a little bit of a hint as to, maybe, who and there was a huge Al Schneider quote on the wall with a picture of him and it said all we have to sell is service itself.

Cole Stevens: 59:26

I was like God, that sounds like my dad. You know what I mean. And I was like I think from that moment on I was like, yeah, I'm a sales guy, but I tell people I'm the lousiest sales guy you could ever meet. I hardly ever have my business cards. I'm kind of a a klutz when it comes to like I'm always moving forward. So sometimes I forget my stuff, you know. But like I pride myself on operations because, again, like like Al Schneider said, all we have to sell is service itself. So if you can get the assets in the right place and not try to do too much as an asset provider, I feel like that's like that's one of the best credos you could ever live by in this space is just do people a good job, right, and again they're gonna smell BS really quick If you're saying, hey, I've got these drop trailers and I can go to California or I can go to Washington right Out of Dallas, Texas or Oklahoma. And then they're like so who do you use for your Oregon permits? And you're sitting there like, uh, because it's the first time you've ever done it, Like they're going to smell you out real quick. That like you don't know what you're talking about as a sales guy, right, and so I don't know.

Cole Stevens: 1:00:43

I think me and you are pretty similar. I'm pretty stubborn, I don't like being wrong. I I do try to wash, watch my my tongue, but like I don't like being wrong. So like I don't, I don't want to go sell someone something that we can't do right. And that, to me, is why I think we've been like successful, as our sales guys have the same mentality.

Cole Stevens: 1:01:05

You know, we don't, we don't do the commission structure right on the asset side because, like I don't want them just going after top line revenue. That's not, it's not serviceable. You know what I mean. Like there's no way you could be. Like you know what we're doing, X amount of millions of dollars, let's double it in a year. You know what I mean. Like there's no way you could be. Like you know what we're doing, X amount of millions of dollars, let's double it in a year. You know what I mean. Like you can more so on the brokerage, because you can scale with that technology and if you have those internal processes, whether it's agent model, whether it's fully automated technology, whatever, like you can scale way quicker with less capital. You know capital expenditures.

Cole Stevens: 1:01:44

But man on the asset side, I always say the Cardinal sin is giving back a load. So like if, if you can't service it, don't, don't quote it, Don't try to touch it, Don't try to do too much. Um, and that's how we present it. Yeah, that's how we present ourselves as a company. When we're doing our sales pitch, it's like, hey, we're just here to look at any opportunity that you have. It's very like hands off, not trying to be pushy. Like our followup cycle it might be every three to six months.

Cole Stevens: 1:02:15

We are not like, hey, we're gonna hammer these people weekly, weekly, weekly with sales calls because, again to your point, you identified it very well Like it's actually a smaller amount. It's a big part of the market, but the amount of shippers that you're going after is like a pretty small number. And so, like we already know who our target audience is when we're selling. There's no reason to try to hard sell those people that have been in that seat for 10 or 15 years and piss them off, Cause they're like this guy won't leave me alone. It's like if they need us, we're gonna catch them at the right part of the cycle when we can service it. Whether capacity's loose or capacity's tight, we'll get our opportunity. We'll prioritize that customer. We'll show them that we weren't just blowing smoke on our email and that we're gonna actually come through for them when they need us right and and our email, and that we're going to actually come through for them when they need us Right, and that's that's our whole sales approach.

Cole Stevens: 1:03:07

It doesn't mean I haven't gotten ghosted a thousand times Right, and every once in a while I'll get my feelers hurt. Don't tell anybody else that, other than everybody that's going to watch this. But you know, every once in a while the old ego takes a jab, right? You're like, oh man, I was hoping to come in and close that deal for one of our sales rep or our director of sales, and then you also get those same crickets. You're like man Dang, or you make it worse, yeah, or you're thinking in your head they must be on like a two month vacation. Surely they would not respond Right, yeah, no never to?

Andrew Silver: 1:03:46

Yeah, no, never to me, never.

Andrew Silver: 1:03:49

It's funny your comments about I love, I mean, I don't even need to say it.

Andrew Silver: 1:03:56

Service was a focal point for how I thought about the brand we built at Molo, and I talked about it a lot probably annoyingly so to some people, but I always felt like my job going into a potential meeting with a customer was quite simply to understand what their needs were and then digest it and decide then and there if I could make a promise to live up to the needs, and if so, I was gung-ho and all in, and then it was my job to relay back to our team what exactly I had committed to, to make sure that we lived up to those commitments. It was a rather simple approach, but one that I think it can work well if you try to be disciplined about it. I was someone who pushed the boundary on discipline because it was like I always believed our team could do more than we could. So whether that was taking 200 loads on a Saturday for one company because they had some warehouse fire or whatever, I was always like well, I think we could probably figure it out, yeah we can do this.

Andrew Silver: 1:04:59

Yeah, and put it on the team to figure it out. No, I love that it is.

Cole Stevens: 1:05:04

It's a simple one but it it's tried and true man it's like. But I think that's where, like, you don't give yourself enough credit that you're, you're the operator. You know what I mean. You really have to be in the business, not just operating the business, but you have to understand how it operates and how your customer operates, not just a sales guy that doesn't understand it, because that's the only way you're going to understand your capabilities and how you can make that promise, right. And so I don't know some of these huge companies.

Cole Stevens: 1:05:33

You're like man, I never understood until I got into business that there was like a difference between sales and customer service. Like sales being I'm just a sales dude, I get paid commissions to bring anything in and then I passed the torch to the internal. You know, customer service or customer success, whatever you want to call it, and I'm like that's crazy to me. I'm like I want to keep that stuff that I worked hard for Cause. Again, I made those promises to someone that, like, I genuinely care about. And you know, again, my father taught us a man of your word, right? So, like, follow through with it. And that doesn't stop after 30 days. It doesn't even stop after 30 years. He's still doing it after 45, right?

Andrew Silver: 1:06:12

Yep, I think you know. I've seen this in now. I've seen it in a big company where, like I could tell you the the I bet there's a a a direct correlation between the level of success a salesperson has and how close they are, like, how closely they understand the actual operation of said business they've won. And I've seen it where, like the bigger the companies are, they have these outside sales reps who are selling six different modes and six different things and they go to sell brokerage and it's like this person has never brokered a load in their life. But because they think they can sell, they think they can go sell brokerage and when they get in front of the customer and they make commitments, they have no freaking idea what they're committing to and by the time the loads are being operated it's nowhere near to the customer's expectation because they weren't even the sales rep, wasn't even capable of articulating to the operations people what they'd even committed to. It just is, and you see this time and time again with these larger companies that have multiple modes and these outside sales reps where they just have no clue what commitments they're making. Which brings me to a thought I had around your business.

Andrew Silver: 1:07:34

It's got to be really challenging to make sure you're making sound commitments, and the reason for that is shippers in general, and even the ones who are great at this, have a hard time knowing exactly what their business is going to look like in three months, in six months, in 12 months, as they make these annual commitments and so their volumes, you know they when it gets to.

Andrew Silver: 1:08:01

I've only done a little bit of drop and hook business and it's so hard because they're like it's going to be three loads a day and you need to therefore have seven trailers on site for us at the origin and you know whatever, all of a sudden you take the business and there's like three extra nuances about that lane you weren't aware of because the facility needs xyz. The volume is three loads a day on average, which is 15 a week, but it really is. On monday there's two loads. On tuesday there's no loads. On wednesday there's five loads. On thursday there's zero and on friday there's uh, eight, I think eight or something I don't know what the math came out to there.

Andrew Silver: 1:08:42

Yeah, um. So how challenging is it? How often is it that the information you're getting from the shippers isn't really accurate, and what do you do about that? Because I feel like it's such an investment for you to go and get seven trailers dropped off at the Hobby Lobby and I'm not just throughout Hobby Lobby, but any retailer or any facility and then, once you're actually in it trying to move the freight, you realize like there are four things that we didn't agree to. The way they are. That kind of impacts my price. How do you navigate those? How often do those situations occur and how do you navigate them?

Cole Stevens: 1:09:15

They happen, right, especially with a new customer. You know, I think everyone always thinks, hey, the grass is always greener on the other side, right, if you're going through like a tough time, or like the past couple of years have been tough on pricing within the market, and you just think, oh, there's a bunch of unicorns on the other side of that fence, right, everyone has differences. And that's where I think you have to like identify what you're good at, like, genuinely you know you. You have to identify exactly what your strong points are so that you realize whether you align with someone or not, what your strong points are, so that you realize whether you align with someone or not, um, and then be able to actually execute If you have those those same. You know shared pain points that you're trying to solve, right, like, hey, uh, we've never done drop and hook operations. We're opening up a distribution center down the road from you, right, and I'm like, hey, that's what we do. You know we do yard hustling, yard management and drop and hook trailers. Right, like, we're your guys here. That's where I think it goes well.

Cole Stevens: 1:10:14

But then again, when you're like, hey, all we do is, you know, spot transactional, live load, live unload. Like if I go take that work, I can price it right, my driver's going to be really mad and probably quit and my driver turnover and retention is going to be terrible because I'm going to taking work that they're not used to right, like internally. And so sometimes you have to put up with a little bit of nuance, right. But if you're really looking for right off the bat it's kind of like the technology and implementing it. If you're kind of like priming yourself to be like no, that customer looks really good but I know their freight's like not, we haven't seen success in that space, it's probably for a really good reason. That you haven't found success in that space yet is because, like, maybe you're not ready to go there right, or maybe their business model doesn't quite fit your business model, and that's perfectly okay and acceptable.

Cole Stevens: 1:11:14

You know there are definitely some some one-offs that happen that you're just like man, I wish I would have known that. And and that's where, internally, I'll come back and evaluate hey, was that our fault? Or like, was that something that the customer was intentionally withholding some information? Because that drives your decision right, that who's paying the freight? Right, there's so many subjective moving parts and also, does that business tie to one of, like, our top 10 customers, right? Like you might put up with a little bit more if someone withheld some information about how freight moves. If it's also tied to something else within your business, it's incredibly important, right, and it's a super small space. So I think, no matter what, you just have to come with the servant's heart all the time that, like, you're going to figure it out, you're going to figure it out for people, right? Cause that's probably where they're looking for a new service provider is because someone before you didn't figure it out and you're you're there to help solve problems.

Andrew Silver: 1:12:15

Couldn't couldn't say it any better than that. Speaking of solving problems, my understanding is the most challenging part of a truck company is managing the drivers, and driver turnover, on average, I believe, is around 100 at most companies like that's an astronomical number. Relative to someone like you know brokerage industry, where you know you could be a tenth of that or a fifth of that, how do do you? There's a couple of thoughts Like what is the most challenging aspect of managing drivers and managing driver turnover?

Cole Stevens: 1:12:55

I think it's constant sales, right. Those fleet managers have to be able to again sell a load very similar to how, like, a broker does. But I think one of the hardest pain points to solve for is, like the dynamic nature of what customer demands are and how they're different with like length of haul and how you pay for those and keep it simple enough that a driver understands exactly what they're going to be taking home, but that you also don't short them because you're so cookie cutter. That's like I don't know. That's a problem that dad and I have always like really tried to like focus on and wrap our head around, because, again, you don't want to have 20 different pay scales for different things, maybe because this, you know, this customer is way harder. They do day zero, overnight deliveries. This customer over here, every load is always going to be three, four stops, multi-stop, right, and this one over here is dropping hooks, so you keep running, so that's probably going to be, you know, by the mile, right. How do you solve for that within a very vast, dynamic network? But also keep it as simple as possible without confusing the driver, because that's what, that's what they care about, like. I want to make sure that whatever I'm putting in, that I'm getting out with the dollars that I take home to my family, right? That's, that's how a driver, you know, really, really wants to be able to peel that, peel that out, and that is it's a challenge. It's a challenge all the time because, like our existing customers, needs can change. You know what I mean. Or you could land some, some new business that you're like man normally you know, over 500 miles, it's this. But we got to be a little more subjective because that we're going to be doing 25 loads a week at 499 miles. You know what I mean. And so it's like there's little tiny one number, penny per mile. You know what I mean, and so it's like there's little tiny one number, penny per mile.

Cole Stevens: 1:14:48

You know what I mean, things that happen all the time within the business that you try not to create confusion. You know what I mean, but you also want to be fair, cause I'm like I got to pay somebody on a short length of haul the same rate per mile. I need to pay them more because as a percentage of that load, there's going to be more dwell time at the shipper and the receiver as a percentage of the whole compared to an over the road run. That's 2000 miles. You know what I mean. Like if you were comparing live load, live unload from, say, oklahoma city to Dallas versus live load, live unload from Oklahoma city to Seattle Washington, right as a percentage more than likely a little, depending on the shipper and receiver the dwell time on the front and the back end and detention is going to be more as a percentage of the load. So that's not fair to the driver if they're not getting compensated for that.

Cole Stevens: 1:15:38

They're still there, they're still awake, they're still loading the freight, they're still unloading the freight, right, they're doing what our core business model is, and so you got to be able to, you got to be able to be dynamic with that If you want to service some of the same customers. But but some people maybe it's like, hey, we don't haul anything other than loads between 500 miles to a thousand. You know what I mean and that's great, but that's something that we've had to solve, for that it is. It's a challenge, you know. It's a challenge on how to wrap your head around. How do you get that information to the driver so that they can, so that they can see it but also still be willing to serve our, our customers If it's something that's out of the norm, right.

Andrew Silver: 1:16:20

Yeah, and you know that you just log jogged my memory on. Like another challenge that technology can provide is like the inability to navigate multiple pay systems or pay structures. Because I remember when I started at Mastery and they were talking about how you know, one of the customers had like 47 different pay structures and I was like what? And they explained exactly what you just explained like we had to build a system in a way that it could accommodate as many pay structures as possible by creating driver profiles that you could just plug it in, versus some other older systems where it's like you got to make it square, fit in a round hole or whatever.

Andrew Silver: 1:17:06

Technology can't accommodate those needs of your system. Now, all of a sudden, you're making a decision that's not in the best interest of your people, just so you could support your technology where that should never be the case, versus, especially in a role like managing drivers where the turnover is so high. So you've already got the cards kind of stacked against you in terms of your ability to retain them. If technology or other issues create more kind of restraints or restrictions, that just makes your job even harder. Yep.

Cole Stevens: 1:17:32

It's a challenge, but also the return on investment can be tenfold right. Like if you can optimize that network of different things together and get your drivers to see that what they're truly taking home is so much better than you know. Just just maybe the same old over the road trucking from a to B to C to D, right, and the fact that, like hey, we're taking short hop from here to here and you're getting paid a premium to do it, and then the next, you know leg is is dropping hook and maybe it's a 700 mile haul, but then we're backing that up with a 2000 mile haul, like here's what your week is going to be, and it's not just at that minimum over the road, you know rate per mile. Like you're going to be bringing home the bacon. Like if you can get that across in an intricate manner and tie together a really tight network, that's where you can be, you know, incredibly profitable, but also, you know, incredibly diversified too, with a different customer base all within the same space.

Andrew Silver: 1:18:31

Yep and and like we've talked a lot about the the value of service in a business like yours and how important it is to be executing at the highest level, how do you instill that mindset into the drivers? Like the driver doesn't necessarily. Let you instill that mindset into the drivers A driver doesn't necessarily. I don't mean to shortchange what they know about the industry, but they're probably not super well read and understood about how competitive it is out there and the fact that if you don't service this load there's not another load tomorrow. So I'm just curious how have you and your father and the rest of the fam and the team kind of drilled home or gotten the buy-in from drivers to execute and service the freight at the highest level?

Cole Stevens: 1:19:17

I think one of the coolest things that people don't know unless they come through here is the fact that my father talks to every single orientation class. So he personally talks to, goes through, oh yeah, like he spends probably a minimum of an hour, you know, every week carving out, making sure that he's got notes of exactly what's going on. And so, like, the first impression of the business legitimately comes from the owner and CEO of the company and you know, who knows, maybe after six months they've lost a little bit of touch with, like, where things are. But we also do monthly safety meetings and updates, right, that are required to be watched by our driver force. And so, when you talk about those cadences of getting them the information, yeah, we're not perfect but like we do try to do internal education and training so that there is a level of understanding and that you know we don't, we don't sound like we don't know what we're talking about and trying to do and accomplish. You know, again, when our our father's been at this for 45 years and he's he's very he's incredible at what he does Right and he's very he's incredible at what he does right. And so we do weekly things with the orientation, we do the monthly safety meetings that are videoed, that get broadcast to the entire suite, that a lot of the time we do market updates, but then those safety meetings and we also have anonymous feedback loop too, so that if we're doing something wrong, we do utilize a platform like that Um, which I think is incredible, because they know that it only gets directly to the family with what is said. It's not going to a fleet manager, it's not going to a fleet manager supervisor, it's not going to a director, it's legitimately going to the Stevens family. And every single week we re, we read every single anonymous feedback loop and we take that stuff seriously.

Cole Stevens: 1:21:08

Sometimes there's just complaints, right, some people need to vent with the driver force, you know, sometimes they just need to pass things upstream and feel heard. But there's a lot of times that there's legitimate complaints hey, did you know that this was going on at the drop yard in such and such state? And you're like I had no idea. Let's try to get to the bottom of that so that we can solve that problem, right, versus 10 drivers quitting over it. You know what I mean. And so, like, when you really like, try to put that ear to the ground, but then also like give them the information that they need. You know. Hopefully that helps with some of the retention pieces to where there's more understanding and patience versus just thinking that that the home office is trying to do them wrong.

Cole Stevens: 1:21:55

Right, that's the ultimate is like making sure that they understand like we are generally doing the best that we can to try to take care of you each and every day. Because, like we would not people say it but I don't know if they really believe it when they say it. We do. If they don't make money, we don't make money. Right, that's something dad just beats into all of our people's heads drivers, admin team alike. Because in a business where you get paid weekly to the labor force, how can you make money if you're not getting paid for 30, 45, 60, 90 days? Right, if they're not making money upfront, there is no way, with that cost of capital that we as a corporation can carry that. So, like I've always felt it's very genuine, because he's like if you're not bringing it home and we're not doing a good enough job of running you, of educating you of how this works, keeping our network flowing, then like there's no chance for us on the back end to make money, none whatsoever, you know, but he does. I mean, again, he does an awesome job of, like I said, talking to these, these drivers every single week and he is the first impression of the company, which I think is so cool I'll never forget. Cool story.

Cole Stevens: 1:23:10

Um, I've been about two years ago we just moved out here to our new corporate office and you know, right there, kind of middle COVID and my dad usually walks around in a jean shorts I love it and like a, like a wind breaker Right, and he's always got, like his, his earpiece in and a and a ball cap on and he might be wearing, like you know, like the uh, almost like olakai slippers or some crocs or something. Just, you know, he's just scooting around the office and I'm walking in from a different meeting from the other side of the campus and I kind of crossed paths with him in the lobby and there's a truck driver that you know was was just coming in for orientation and hadn't gotten to hear from from dad yet and he starts shaking his hand. He's like, hey, he's like how long you been here? And dad's like, ah, quite a while. He's like, do you drive here? And dad's like, ah, quite a while he's like do you drive here? And dad was like yeah, sorta.

Cole Stevens: 1:24:10

And so you know, never, never said hey, I'm Kenny the owner, you know what I mean. Just like, walking around his jean shorts and his windbreaker, just the most like low key, chill guy that you could meet, and just he's got a servant's heart. Like you wouldn't know that he was the owner unless you saw him giving a spiel in the safety talk or in the orientation class and so like when you get taught to carry yourself that way, like you don't ever like think of yourself as someone. So like you're constantly trying to serve other people and that's the business that we're in. We do. We don't make products, even if a product does service a customer. We're strictly in the service industry.

Cole Stevens: 1:24:57

And if you don't have a servant's heart to serve people like that and you start thinking that you're something, you'll probably get knocked down a peg or two. And so just coming every day like being like hey, I want to be more like Kenny. Right, I want to. I want to be that dude driving a truck 45 years from now and still out talking to my people and educating them as best as I can because of the experience he's gained Cause again. Just like your dad man, like he could. He could head to the house all day long, but he doesn't, because he loves it and he cares about his people, you know. So it's cool to watch, it's cool to be a part of.

Andrew Silver: 1:25:36

So I had a lot to add to that. I was going to agree and share some of my own perspective on culture building, but I don't want to. I just that was beautifully said and I really it resonates. I agree with it. Your dad's gotta be, you know, he's probably probably not a big podcast guy, but you should ask him to listen to this, cause I think he'll be immensely proud of kind of the way you carry yourself, the way this, this stuff kind of seeps out of you. It's not like you're putting on a show. Um, I think you did a really good job of articulating who the Stevens trucking team is versus kind of you know the show of like, we do this, we do this. Yeah, I just want to thank you.

Cole Stevens: 1:26:16

Thanks for having me on the show and I appreciate you for having me. Genuinely Great I was. I was pumped whenever I was watching that episode and then saw your your comment about maybe we can have Cole on, I was like heck, yeah, Like I love getting to getting to talk it up with Andrew. Yeah, man, it's been great.

Andrew Silver: 1:26:36

So when it's not negative we need to go.

Cole Stevens: 1:26:39

We need to go for around a golf at some point when it's not minus degrees outside.

Andrew Silver: 1:26:46

Yeah, we're going to need a little bit more than not minus degrees outside. Yeah, we're gonna need a little bit more than not minus. We're gonna need at least, like I like, a 60 and up golfer 60 degrees and up, and I keep my scores well above that.

Cole Stevens: 1:26:54

But uh, you should bring the podcast equipment to the golf course.

Andrew Silver: 1:27:00

That would be pretty epic, I feel yeah, I'm sure the audience would love to watch you and I hit the ball 200 times between us with a couple of yells and screams and shit.

Cole Stevens: 1:27:13

It'd be good entertainment? I don't think so. Everybody in the freight industry would relate. They'd be like those are my guys, those are my guys, right there.

Andrew Silver: 1:27:23

Maybe a little bit. All right, everyone. Well, it's been great Cole. Uh, we'll see y'all next week. You.