Ep. #80: Bill Catania, Founder & CEO, OneRail

A 10‑day wait for a refrigerator became the spark for a smarter last mile. We sit down with OneRail CEO Bill Catania to unpack how a racing mindset—frugality, failure tolerance, and relentless iteration—translated into a platform that helps retailers move from static delivery workflows to real‑time orchestration at scale. Bill shares the throughline across three startups: aggregate fragmented supply, connect it cleanly to demand, and let data science make the hard choices in milliseconds.

You’ll hear how RaceFan aggregated 650 local tracks to unlock national sponsorships, why MDOT’s 200‑millisecond cloud coupon switch won over skeptical retailers (and how Bill timed the sale), and the moment OneRail shifted from gig moving to an enterprise platform. We break down OneRail’s three‑layer model—software first, an aggregated carrier network across sedans to flatbeds, and a human exception team—and how the company takes on risk under its authority to deliver accountability most intermediaries avoid.

AI is not a bolt‑on here. Bill explains how courier “credit scores,” market‑level performance, and dynamic assignment replaced manual dispatch, enabling one person to triage roughly 4,000 orders instead of 80. We explore exceptions in furniture and cold chain, SKU‑level loss analysis, and how pushing intelligence upstream into order management can reshape cost to serve before a truck even moves. Along the way, Bill shares the “yes if” leadership mantra that keeps doors open while aligning risk and reward—fuel for winning enterprise trust and recognition like Lowe’s Innovation Partner of the Year.

If you care about last mile logistics, enterprise retail, or building resilient platforms, this conversation is a blueprint: aggregate wisely, decide precisely, own outcomes, and scale through partnerships. Subscribe, share with a teammate who obsesses over SLAs, and leave a review with your biggest “yes if” moment—we’ll feature the best on a future show.

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Thanks to our sponsors:

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Transcript

Meet Bill Catania And His Why

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Welcome back to another episode of Great Pod. I'm the host and Silver, joined today by a very special guest, for usual, always a special guest. Today's particularly special. We get to dabble in a part of the logistics industry that I have not yet uh interviewed, I should say, and certainly have not had any of my own personal experience. So I'm excited to kind of learn something new today. I'm joined by Mr. Bill Catania, CEO of OneRail, founder of multiple businesses, and we're going to learn about his journey and OneRail and all their building. Welcome to the show today. I really appreciate you having me. Thank you. It's a pleasure. So where should we start? I think you know, I know you you've been in the freight industry for a uh a bit now, but your your background is not freight, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01

I if I'm if I spend 30 years in this industry, I'm still gonna feel like the new guy. So no, I I had no background in it whatsoever, just a customer problem I was trying to solve.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

But this is this is also not the first business you've started, correct?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

No, it's the third. I've I've I've had three. You know, I was when I was in college, I started one and ran that for a few years, then started another one, and then shortly after started this one. So it's been three startups, three tech startups in 25 years. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

What's what's the poll there? Like why you why are you why are you an entrepreneur? Why are you a founder? What's the the drive behind wanting to start multiple businesses?

SPEAKER_00 1:43

I think it's you know, if I had to distill it down to one thing, it's the competitiveness of it. And the competitive competitiveness isn't always financial, it's conquering an industry, it's changing things. It's I call it the look back. You know, you you make a bunch of progress, step back, take a look at it. And then believe it or not, I get a lot of happiness um from my last startup. When I see that technology in the field in this in a in a retail store, it was a digital coupon platform. To see customers interact with it, I get a tremendous amount of fulfillment out of that. So yeah, there's financial benefits. I like being in control of my own destiny, like much, probably like yourself and other entrepreneurs. And um I just wanna, you know, I wanna wanna keep doing that. I haven't I it's never become bored for me.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

I I like that idea of the look back. Um, it it reminds me of kind of thoughts I had throughout my journey where it was like, I want to be able to, like 20 years from now, I guess, look back and and see that like there was something real, tangible created here. Um, and for me it wasn't products because it was more uh service and and and people. And so like the impact was more there, but it's got to be cool. Yeah, you mentioned a retail product you built, it's like actually to go to the store and see something you created being used and adding value in society.

Racing Mindset: Frugality, Failure, Teamwork

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, I I enjoy that. I enjoy that more than you know, and it it just it's cool, you know, and and to to watch to interact with a cashier, right? And and ask them questions. And I have the answers to those questions, but I want to hear what they have to say about it. You know, are customers using it? Is it you know, does it work or not? You know, and not have any responsibility whether it is working or not. So it is kind of nice to it's nice to see the legacy of that continue. And um, I'm sure one rail will be the same, you know, when that day comes where I'm I'm not driving it, you know, hopefully building a company here that'll that'll grow far beyond um my career, you know, and and would love to have that look back someday with one rail.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Yeah, I'm sure. So, what was the first business you built? Race for race car fans? Or tell me, tell me a little bit about this.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Yeah, I so I was at Cornell. I had this really good job lined up with with Philip Morris. I was gonna go sell tobacco. And I thought that was a really good thing. You know, it was a top decile salary because it's such a tough industry. And at the time, the industry was going through the Master Settlement Agreement, which was like a$200 billion lawsuit. So you can imagine how how difficult it was for Philip Morris to recruit students to you know make that their first job. So um I had this territory lined up. You know, the the section director called me uh one day and he said, Hey, big boy, I've got news for you. And I was still in college, I still had like a month before graduation. He said, You're getting a raise before you even start or increasing. I said, I've got bad news for you. I I actually uh got an investor and I'm starting my own company. And um, you know, uh passion project turned career, you know. I've I grew up in a racing family. So my grandfather, uh Marion, started fielding race cars uh up in western New York in the 60s, and then my dad started racing in uh 70s, and then I started racing when I was 17 uh back in 1993. So um I've raced my whole life. So when I had an opportunity uh to find an investor, I had a pretty cool idea and and he got behind me. Um I I put I didn't care what the risk was, I just wanted to go head first and work on something that didn't feel like a job every day. And that might also be part of the answer to the question why, you know, why why an entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Yeah. So I'm curious if there's a connection between or if you can draw a connection between racing and building a business. Like, are there any from from the experience you had as as a driver or yeah, like yeah, talk to talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah, for sure. Um I would say most of what I have have learned working around and actually building cars. So when I was 17, I built my first race car, um had has really conditioned me for this, you know, and I can give you a few points on that. Frugality, you know, and being efficient. Um, it's an expensive sport. It doesn't matter what level you're at, and you have to be frugal, you have to be innovative. Um, you know, my dad was very innovative, and uh he did a lot, you know, a lot without a lot of resources, and that sort of conditioned me a little bit. Um, and then the this the failure. Racing is a failure sport. If you think about football, there's a winner and a loser, right? And most sports, it's it's a winner and a loser. With racing, there's one winner and 39 losers, you know. So you better damn well get used to losing because but then coming back and and not stopping, you know, try as soon as you you end that race and you're on the way home and you're towing the race car home, you start thinking, you know, what do I gotta do, you know, for that not to happen again? How do I how do I fix it? Um, and then the teamwork side of it, you know, you you gotta have great people around you. Um, and and with racing, nobody's getting paid, you know, at least at the level I was racing at at that time. I did race professionally in the ARCA series eventually. That's a whole different story. But when I was growing up racing, it was all volunteer help. You know, you had to you you had to have people around you that were fulfilled to want to help you. You had to be a good person or they'd tell you to pound salt, right? So um it's a tough sport. And and and the third, the fourth thing I would say is the endurance, persistence of you work a day job and then you go the work on the race car from six to midnight every single night. Um, when I uh early in my career, I'd race 40 or 50 races a year, and and that was all I did outside of my day job. There was no going to weddings, there was no uh nothing. It was it was racing and working. Those were the it was two modes.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

So I I love those kind of parallels you're drawing in the lessons because like you you were absolutely were conditioned to build businesses based on that experience. I mean, just the idea, the idea of the frugality that's required for building a business and especially a startup. Um the the get knocked down losing 39 out of 40 people are losing every week, every race, but you just have to keep getting back up. And the second you're on the way home, thinking, okay, how do I get better? Like that is building a business. It's what you walk in, and what is the problem you've got today? Yeah, no one else is getting in the car for you tomorrow to drive. It's it's you, so you got to figure out how do we tackle this problem and then get back up and and go assess the next problem. Um just all of those parallels. I really appreciate that. Those are great. So just to stick on the racing for another minute here, um, you mentioned the arc, like what was the dream? Like, you know, you wanted to be the next Dale Earnhardt, or like talk talk, like what were you trying to accomplish? It was it just for fun, or or you really felt like maybe this could be a career.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

At one point, it it was my desired career. And when I was still in college before I started my business, I actually secured a sponsor to race professionally when I was 20, you know, 22 years old. And you know, they they were going public and it was a little sketchy, it was on pink sheets, and they ended up not raising the capital. So I was in a tough spot because I'd made some commitments, that's what I was gonna do. And it was it was it was January of my senior year, and it was at that point that I realized, okay, I better I better get close to Philip Morris because they were recruiting me really heavily, but then just just got lucky, you know, found somebody that was looking to deploy some capital, you know, in central New York of all places, and I was there and um hit it off with them and and and it worked out. But yeah, it's uh it it racing started as a as a hobby, but I don't know, whatever I do, it doesn't matter what I'm doing. I want to get to the highest level of it. And I still haven't done that in racing. I was fortunate enough to get to the Arca series. My dream was to race at Daytona. If I could distill like one thing, if I wanted to race at Daytona, and I got to do that when I was 39, you know, back in 2015. I ran the ARCA 200, and um that was a dream come true. Um and every year I didn't do it, I thought, damn, I gotta work harder. I've got to, but but I'm so busy with what I do during the day, how do I do it? And um anyway, I I I was very fortunate to race a couple years in ARCA and and have my own team. It was self-funded, and you know, I'm not done with racing. I still race uh regionally. Um and and someday I'll probably that's the nice thing about racing, as long as you can, you know, get your body through that hole and get in the car, which has no space whatsoever in it, you can do it as long as you're you you know meet the certain physical requirements. So I was gonna ask that.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Uh there's no age kind of it's it's not like other sports where you know your body kind of breaks down, you know, you're in your 20s, you're at your peak, in your 30s, you're still there, but starting to trend down, and by your 40s, you're pretty much out of the league. Like racing, it's not like that, huh? Like talk a little bit about what one just elaborate on that piece a little bit. I'm also curious, like, what does make a great driver? Like, what differentiates the winner from the guy behind him and and the guy 30 spaces behind him? Because it's you know, uh it's not as simple as just driving a car, right? I mean, it is driving a car, but talk a little bit more about the skill of it.

Risk, Skill, And Longevity In Racing

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Yeah, yeah. And I think that can make some parallels that you'll certainly relate to, you know, from your entrepreneurial successes. So as a racer, you could race till you're 100, right? If you if you can if you can do the job. And it is a very, very physical sport, you know. Anybody that doesn't believe that needs to strap in, you know, in 140 degrees and and do the same thing over and over for an hour and a half or two hours. Um, I lose 10 to 15 pounds when I race. And it's very oh yeah, you'll lose 10, 15 pounds in a longer, like 200 lap race. Yeah, it's it's pretty demanding. And you have G's on you the whole time. Uh it's very physical, but at the end of the day, you become conditioned to that. Uh, you know, and and somebody that doesn't race would really struggle to get in, and the G forces would wear them out. You got to have really good core. Um, but what's real important? I mean, the most important thing, and again, drawing parallels, consistency and being very technical around your entry point, you know, into a corner, when you're gonna break, when you're gonna gas, right down to memorizing little things like cracks in the racetrack. And if you put your wheel on it, it'll actually turn the car a little bit, you know, if the car's not turning right, and you just memorize a shadow of a tree, you know, can change during the course of a race, but you you've you learn to look for all those things, and and it's memory, and it's you know, I I made, you know, this is a true, I'm not not joking, like autism is a good trait for racing because you you you're maniacal about processing doing the same thing over and over again, and and it's a really it's a great trait. I've known some really great autistic racers because that's a superpower, and and when you see like football, you've got steroids, right? You have you have you have uh uh performance-enhancing drugs and racing, it's like Ritalin. Ritalin is a performance-enhancing drug. Drivers have been banned because they had traces of Ritalin and and uh concerta or whatever, name the flavor, yeah. Adderall, yeah, yeah, that's the most common one. So, yeah, and so consistency though is everything, and and then making those little little adjustments, you know, every lap and figuring out how you can get another tenth, you know, hundredth of a second. Um, that's kind of the margins you're playing in. You're not playing in seconds, you're playing in hundredths and thousandths and tenths.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

What is your wife's take on the safety or the risk of of this endeavor that you've fallen in love with?

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah, I think she compartmentalizes it and doesn't think about it, to be totally honest. Now, I haven't done what I consider, you know, the more dangerous racing, which is on the super speedways. Like I've raced at Chicago, Pocono, a lot of the big tracks where you're going 190, 200 miles an hour. I'm doing mostly half-mile ovals. They're pretty, you know, pretty tame compared to what can happen on some of those really big tracks. But you know, she she supports it just like anything. She knows it makes me happy. And um the amount of money um that I invest in safety is more than my first race car. You know, my seat, my helmet, my head and neck restraint. There's been no driver fatalities that I'm aware of in stock cars with head and neck restraints. Um, and that's 25 years since they mandated them. So it, you know, there's always risk. There's risk to anything. But at the end of the day, you know, she knows it makes me happy. And um, I also keep it in check. You know, I'm I'm doing it like you golf now, right? I'm an old man. So getting out there four or six times a year, I'm lucky if I can do that. And I hadn't raced for four years. I I have been so maniacally focused on what I'm doing here. Um, but I I have a great leadership team around me now. I actually thanked them at our leadership off site. Thank you for for signing up for this because it's given me just enough time to get out there like three or four times, and that's all I really need.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

That's awesome. I love it. So um, your first business though was was what was that race car related? It was race fan related, right? Or marketing related.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Yeah. Yeah. So I, you know, as a local racer, which is where I grew up racing at one, you know, two racetracks that were 30 miles apart. We didn't travel far away and tour around and stuff. It was all kind of in our backyard. I had a mind, you know, that was capable of selling sponsorship. The sponsorship drives that sport, um, unless you're just wealthy and you want a tax write-off, right? Some people do it as a tax shelter. I wasn't quite in that place when I was that age. So finding sponsorship sometimes was the difference between being good or bad, or even being out there. So I would take some big swings. Like I would call like brand manager at Tide, or I would call Pepsi Corporate, trying to get them to sponsor my little race car in Jamestown, New York. And um, I got tired of beating my head against the wall, but I start it started to click. What if I were to take the entire sum of grassroots auto racing, all forms of racing, which is like 1,500 racetracks across the United States? And what if you looked at that fan base over the course of the year? What does that look like? And it actually was bigger than NASCAR. And so once I once I formed that business idea, the concept was how do I build a marketing platform? And that was, you know, that was the year 2000. So we're right at the you know, we're post-bubble. Um people weren't exactly throwing money around, you know, we're in the year 2000, and just you know, so many dot-coms went out of business. So I built, again, I'm gonna date myself, bricks and clicks model, where I built a racing online property through roll-ups. So I did five acquisitions, and we built what became the leading source of news and information for those local grassroots racetracks, to the point where we actually powered NASCAR.com with their own local NASCAR track news. Um, we powered Prime Media, which is a magazine company. They own Car and Driver and Motor Trend and all those big titles. Um, we powered their websites with racing news, uh, Fox Sports. So we ended up building something really special and unique within the racing circle that reached race fans all over the world, um, that could be bolted onto a traditional marketing or media budget. So Fox Sports would say, hey, you can do a TV buy, but you also get this online buy. So we even sold our own inventory because we had a consumer-facing website called who one.com. We had like 50 million views a month. So we could never sell all that inventory. So we actually wholesaled it to the big magazine companies. And then there was a the bricks part of it. We actually aggregated, and that'll be a theme through this conversation. We aggregated the marketing rights of these local racetracks so that now I could call uh brand manager at Procter and Gamble and say, hey, we've got 650 racetracks. We can put a billboard at every one of them, but based on your customers, we think you should do these 10. And we would actually bring sponsorship, we would show up on the doorstep of these local track promoters who didn't stand a chance in hell uh of ever, just like myself, right? Securing the money, you know, from those types of companies. And we built a great business. The biggest year we had, we had 650 unique tracks that we that we executed on the ground marketing programs at.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

So what's what's really fascinating to me about that story is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like what you started with and what you ended with were two drastically different things.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Like Pivot Big Pivot.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Pivot City, right? I mean, talk a little bit about that and how important that is in kind of any startup or founder's journey, and why like what how you like got to the place where okay, I need to pivot from here to here, here to here, and I end up with this.

RaceFan: Aggregating Grassroots Attention

SPEAKER_00 19:07

You know, that's been the theme through all three of my startups, and and that pivot has happened at almost at the exact same moment in all three startups. I'd like to say I learned faster, but it it's usually month 18. And it takes me that long. You know, you build something, you you have an idea, and then you go build something, and then you take it to market, and it works or it doesn't, or you have customers that lean in and say, hey, if you could do this or that, or you see opportunity. And all three businesses was month 18. And it pivoting is everything, you know. I think sometimes pivoting is prefer it has a negative connotation. I think it's the opposite. And I think it's uh I forget who it was. Uh founder, founder of uh Reed Hoffman, founder of LinkedIn, has uh Art of the Pivot, I think is a book. I haven't read it, but I've done it. And all three businesses, if I didn't pivot, I would have failed. It was certain failure, like guaranteed failure. Um so you have to listen. You know, to me, the key to pivoting is you listen to every prospective customer, you listen to their customers. Honestly, I had I've probably had 300 investor pitches, you know, the last five years. I don't leave an investor pitch without picking something up. I learned I get something out of that. And and it doesn't mean you have to go home and do it, it means you take the sum of all that data and your own gut, your own vision, and you say, you know what, we're gonna do this. And boy, if ever there was a pivot, it was one rail. But uh, or an MDOT, quite frankly, my last startup. But it's it's it's it's something you you almost have to do. I don't know too many people that get it right on the very first try, as good as it can be.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

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SPEAKER_00 23:30

Thousand percent. You know, ultimately you're engineering a business model that's hard to break, right? So you have to break it, you have to figure out where the where the problems are, whether it's a deficit of supply or you can't sync supply and demand at the right time, you know, and that was what we learned with with OneRail. Um being a courier first, you know, taught us all the problems of being a courier. And it's it's uh you have to fail, you know, and you have to be okay with that. You have to be okay. And it's in my opinion, it might sound cliche, it's not a failure to you quit. Um, Michael Jordan, what's his saying? He never lost a game, you just ran out of time, right? You can run out of capital and time in this business, but it's uh you just have to be willing to fail a little bit. Um, I was asked to speak at a graduation from my high school, I don't know, 15 years ago. I actually referenced big lots as a land of failure, you know, failed products, but they're still good products. They just something was off. You know, it's like I love going. You never know. They don't do that anymore. They uh actually I don't even know if they're in business, but um I think barely.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Yeah. So I appreciate all the race talk and and your first business. Let's talk about m dot now, and we'll we'll spend plenty of time on one rail, don't worry. But um, I just it's fascinating me to learn about any any entrepreneurialism that my guests have participated in. And so you know, you you had a success with the racing marketing business. How did round two come about?

The Pivot Muscle And Month 18 Pattern

MDOT: Cloud Coupons And Retail Integration

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yeah, I had a non-compete in in racing, which I you know, when I was running race fan, I never envisioned a time when I wouldn't. Um, I learned a lot from that experience. I I had a great and still have a great relationship with my my angel investor who wasn't much older than me. Um, but I had a challenge with a guy we brought in to be kind of a third partner and and my equal partner. And uh I was in a situation where I decided to sell my shares back to the company, um, you know, for a lot of reasons. And it was a hard pill to swallow. You know, I'd built uh what I thought we were cash flow positive within 18 months, we raised very little capital. I mean, it was less than$200,000. It wasn't, but we managed to have seven digits of revenue and cash flow positive. It was very efficient. Um, but the problem I, you know, the problem I had uh just didn't I just didn't see a path forward. So I I got out of that and started working in the marketing world. You know, my degree was in food industry management at Cornell. So, you know, I was gonna be a brand manager, I was, you know, gonna run some facet of a retail business. I love that. I still love that. I think it's a it's a fun business. Grocery, CPG, I love all that stuff. Um, so I went and worked with a guy named Dan Benzer. He owned a boutique, you know, small marketing firm in Erie, Pennsylvania, where I lived. And he was working with some big companies that gave me a chance to get my hands dirty, uh, working on brands and working with retailers. And it only took about eight months for me to start doing things I wasn't supposed to do because that's what entrepreneurs do. And I started, I don't know, I just had this idea for uh a savings program wrapped around mobile phone airtime. Now I know that sounds crazy because prepaid phones are not a big deal here in the United States, but I had this idea of how do you take a cell phone and put coupons on it and shopping features. And again, this was before you know, right about the time the iPhone came out. Actually, it was right before it. So the concept of shop, get free airtime, phone utility, mobile payments, kind of wrap it all into one suite, and put a special brand on it that you can only buy at Safeway or Kroger. Um, so that was the that was the big idea. And we went down that path and we actually signed Blackhawk Network, with which is like the leading prepaid company in the United States, had no money, had no funding, was completely bootstrapped, and we got on every end cap and every safe way, which is absolutely insane. So here we are in Erie, Pennsylvania. We have distribution in over a thousand Safeway stores running on fumes. I had no money, I had nothing. Like I would travel out west, I didn't even have money to stay at a Motel 6. Like it was bad. But we we were but we're operating and we're paying our build of Verizon and we put this package together called Only One Mobile. So long and short of it, you know, 2008 was a bad time, you know, 2000 September of 2008. We finally got a term sheet from a credible venture capital fund, and it was September 8th, if I remember right, when the markets crashed, they pulled the term sheet. And and we hit, we just we were out of fumes even at that point. We had nothing. So I pulled Dan and my other partner, Kevin, into my office. I and I at that time I was working full-time on the business. I wasn't working for Dan anymore, so I didn't have a salary. I'm just just working, doing a little consulting to keep my lights on at home. And I said, Listen, you guys need to go figure out how to wind down that that prepaid phone business. And at the time, Kroger actually had a competing brand that was a private label brand. And there was other called MVNOs out there that operated these virtual brands. So I said, you guys need to go do that. I'm gonna figure out how to stay out of jail and out of court. And I'm gonna come up with something. I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I'm gonna come up with something. Well, through the whole experience, the one thing that people really loved was the sexiness of coupons on a phone. And if you you've probably seen these old videos of what they call flying machines, all the different inventions of airplanes that look nothing like airplanes today. You know, the one that has the wings that actually flap. And you know, there was all kinds of flying machines for mobile phones because nobody could figure out like how do I take value here, transact it in a point of sale, have it not slow anything down, not put hardware in the store. Well, this little thing called the cloud came out, and now we're sitting in 2008, and I ended up you know 30 days, it took me 30 days, and I architected m dot. And essentially it was a real-time cloud-enabled billing switch. It was it was it was just like a Visa MasterCard switch. And uh the state of Pennsylvania told me no three times to the to the cell phone idea that nobody would fund for good reasons, too, by the way. But state of Pennsylvania came over and said, by you nailed it. We're in. And so he gave us$50,000. So I went and found two amazing people from a company called Catalina Marketing. They're the company that prints the coupons at the point of sale. Well, they both were chief architects from Catalina. We had a functional demo within three months. We raised$4 million in two years. We sold the company to the market leader, Inmar, um, who today has over a 70% market share with that platform. Um, and what we did is we connected the point of sale to the cloud. We found a way to do it in 200 milliseconds. And the hardest part of that journey, it wasn't like I had geniuses working for me. I came up with the idea, it needs to do this. They figured it out. I found good people. Um, but the hardest part of that journey was convincing big retailers to trust their data in the cloud. Think about that in 2009 and 10. Uh, that's scary. The cloud's a new thing. So we ended up winning the Amazon uh global startup challenge, the AWS Challenge, met Andy Jassy, got a big foam$100,000 check. And it was within months of that we were acquired. And the reason I sold, I really didn't want to sell. Um, but I'm also a realist. And I like to say I'm always going to get out of the car before it flips over and burns. I will get out of that car. And even if it's rolling, we're gonna get out, you know, we're getting out of the car. So I have a pretty good instinct for when, you know, when to hold them and when to fold them, right? And I'm looking at the market, it's still all messed up. You know, it's 2010, VCs are tight, even after winning the global challenge, nobody's dulling out venture capital for ideas. And at that point, we had signed about five contracts with big retailers, including the federal government, to do DECA. And it just was impossible. Every VC up Sand Hill Road said, we want to see data points first. We trust you, we know you've got it, your solution's amazing. We need to see data points. Seeing data points in that industry is hard because retailers only update their point of sale once a year. So your sales cycle's a year, the update cycle's a year, rollout period. So I looked at it and I did, I had a great CFO. Um, and we came to the conclusion we can't raise enough capital to over, you know, at the right valuation to get enough data points to ratchet the value up. It doesn't make sense. Let's sell to a market leader. And NMAR is the one that I felt had the most upside because of where they were in the industry. They hadn't really deployed a digital strategy yet. They had like two people working on digital out of a thousand people. Um, and they were the right partner, and and it was a very successful uh acquisition for us. We didn't raise a lot of capital, so it was a it was a good one.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

That's a fascinating story of how you go from just idea to meeting Andy Jassy, winning Amazon global startup of the year. I mean, it sometimes in this case it sounds like just you hit the nail on the head with the right idea and then you got to go execute. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Well, I learned what I learned. So it's funny, what I learned at RaceFan parlayed in a lot of ways into MDOT. What uh what I did at RaceFan was aggregate, I aggregated marketing rights. And what we did at MDOT, you know, half of the story was the cloud. And that was that's where we won on not putting hardware in the store and keeping CapEx down and all that stuff. The other side of it though, we aggregated every coupon provider in the industry into one massive pool of coupon supply because the problem was coupons.com, all these different coupon providers were going into retailers saying they were the Muhammad Ali of coupons and you need to do a point of sale integration with us. And their point of sale integration sometimes would take 24 hours for the coupon to load onto the shopper cart. Ours was again milliseconds, you'd be stopped in the sh in the shopping lane and loading. So the aggregation of supply, connecting it to demand in real time, and then orchestrating that is what won the day.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Yeah, I can see that. Uh my my only other question on this business is around selling it. And you talked about kind of knowing to get out of the car, you know, when it's rolling and before it burns. It's it's hard. When I think about when we sold our business, I've gotten a lot of credit, not credit we deserve, but I've gotten a lot of credit after the fact for timing because we sold the logistics business in November of 2021, and then the market crashed in 22 and is still not really recovered.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

But like part and when I think back to like those the conversations we were having, like, is it the right time? Is it the right buyer? The time question is so hard to answer because you can't predict the future, certainly. And yeah, but one thing I remember was you know, our our banker telling us, like, you know, there's this really concerning real estate issue happening in China that one of the top real estate companies is going under, that's gonna impact everything here, and you know, things like that. You don't realize, like as an employee, you have no idea what's going on in your CEO's head as he's contemplating or she's contemplating selling a business. But I'm just curious from your perspective, like you know, you it sounds like you built a very unique product that maybe if you did hold on for two or three more years, you build more scale, and you're talking, you know, 10x, 20, 30, 40x uh a sale price. How do you think about like knowing when the time is right and kind of making that decision?

SPEAKER_00 36:13

I feel like I could have made either path work. You know, at the end of the day, I don't think I could I I think I still could have made it successful, but we believed in the acquirer probably as much as they believed in us. So we saw a diamond in a rough in the rough. We saw an acquirer that was high very profitable, that had New Mountain Capital behind them, they had a good private equity backer, and they they were devoid of digital talent, but they had 2,000 customers that could buy our product. So when I looked at them, and then we did have opportunities with about four companies at the same time. We made a decision, you know, the equity upside, the way we structured the deal, you know, we could be part of the next transaction. That was a big part of it. Um, but ultimately, you you know, what it what it really comes down to, I'm sure you get this question all the time. When are you gonna sell? When are you gonna sell? What are you doing? What's your path? What's your plan? I get that question multiple times a week. And my answer has been the same for a very long time. When I wake up in the morning, what's my balance sheet? What's my what's the competitive ecosystem? Where's the market? Where am I relative to the competitive ecosystem in the market? What's the TAM? How much, you know, how much runaway, you know, is there uh to grow? Yeah, and and then you make a decision. And there to me, there is no pre-fab answer to that question for me. I I couldn't answer it. Now, do I have intuitions? Yeah, I have intuitions, but it's not driven by my needs. You know, it's driven by what's the right thing based on all those all those variables. So with M Dot, you know, we had the right thing at the right time, we had the right people. The market was really early, and it was a lot earlier than we thought it was. It didn't really start scaling until 17 and 18. We were talking, I sold the company in 11. Um, so there were boxes that weren't checked. You know, that my balance sheet was was awful. My personal balance sheet right now is a lot better than what the company's was. So I'm just uh you know, it just you just kind of consider all those things, but I will say conviction for the acquirer was a big part of the decision.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Got it. I appreciate that. A lot of really uh valuable insight there. I like thinking about the kind of competitive marketplace and and kind of the the room to run and kind of where you are and where you are personally, where the business is. I like thinking about all of that. So I appreciate that insight.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Well, you know, it also came down to where could we make the impact. And to the credit of the CEO, he saw the talent of my team. And we felt like we could still be entrepreneurial at NMAR. And we were encouraged to be entrepreneurial at NMAR, and that made a big difference.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

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Timing An Exit And Choosing Buyers

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Yeah, just you know, I was working on a business plan for kind of an omni-channel marketing platform. It was kind of like M.2.0 that could transact currency, um, like Bitcoin. It could transact benefits, healthcare benefits. Um, and then the concept was how do you marry all digital touch points into one essentially view, one pane of glass? Um, so I've been working on that. I had a couple hundred pages of documentation. I've been at it for a few months, and I had some pretty good, I thought I had some conviction for that until I ran into this problem. I was I was trying to get a refrigerator delivered, and I could, you know, they told me it was going to take 10 days. I was at a major retailer in the home improvement space, not to be named. Uh, but they told me it would take 10 days. And it was also like very assumptive of me. I bought it, I paid. Oh, by the way, I'll be home all day. You can just get that to me anytime today, because I'm just hanging out writing this business plan on something I was calling OmniPoint. And they said, Oh, sir, I'm sorry to tell you it's gonna take 10 days. I'm like, Well, that's commercially irresponsible. Like, how could it take 10 days? And yeah, we have these rider trucks, and we, you know, we rent them, and we don't have any full-time delivery people. We do the deliveries when we can, and we can't get to it until probably 10 days. It was probably 10 days, it might have been longer. So thankfully, I had an F 350 dually sitting at home, and I went home and got it and delivered the refrigerator. Um, but I literally I'm not joking, from the moment that associate said those words, and this is just the way my brain works, instantly started searching for Uber for delivery, Uber for moving, guy with a truck. When when was this? Give me a time frame. The idea was September of 15th. Okay, so this is over 10 years ago. Okay. Idea, yeah. So that I mean, I couldn't put it down, you know. Then I I whatever I'm doing, I have to become a student of it. And so I start, you know, I don't know anything about logistics. Uh, I was a major shareholder at NMAR. We happen to have 36 warehouses processing product returns, but I didn't work on that part of the business. I didn't know anything about logistics and supply chain, which ironically, I don't know if they still give kids these uh ASFAB tests that tests your comprehension of math and science and mechanical skills. And it used to be a military aptitude test that was required. I don't think it's required anymore. But it when I was 18, I took that test and it said, your future is in supply chain. And I thought, what the hell is supply chain? I want to drive a race car. So that's kind of supply chain. Yeah, it's kind of weird. It all came full circle, like the test actually worked. Yeah. So um, so yeah, that was the that was the genesis of this, and I couldn't put it down. And so I just start going really deep in gig, moving, the whole Amazon uh effect and what was going on at that time, which Prime was relatively a new idea. Um, so what I did, yeah, and I'm not a again, I'm never afraid to air my failures, uh, I applied for a job at Amazon and I didn't get it. And I have a very good friend who's also an advisor to this company. His name is Neil Ackerman, AS13 Supply Chain Patents at Amazon. I called up Neil and I actually worked with him when I was an intern at Philip Morris. I said, Neil, you know, I see you've got a product job open. I'd love to work on product. I'm really intrigued about same day, you know, and delivery in general. And he put me through the rigor and I didn't get the job. And I thought, well, you know what? I'm going to create my own job. And I at the time I had gone through a divorce. You know, my assets weren't really that great. Um, but I ended up taking the better part of eight months, nine months, and I built it myself. I built the entire thing myself. And the first iteration that kind of got me here was the build of an on-demand moving platform. And went to market with it in a couple cities, you know, started generating$20,000 a month,$30,000 a month, started getting revenue. It was consumer-facing. There was no B2B element. And through all that learning, you know, and then Lisa and I started working together. We met, you know, during that journey, and Lisa is my co-founder. I kind of dropped that business, you know, like a it was like a petri dish of learning. And I had no angel money at that time. So it was all out of my pocket. But then reincorporated and started something fresh, you know, basically January of 2018 around this concept of aggregating supply. So I kind of got my brain, you know, operating this for a year, realized I'm never going to have the right amount of supply in the right place at the right time without having an immense amount of capital. So that's when we that's when we pivoted. Uh it was a half, it was a quarter pivot, but we were still doing moving into it and then we were starting to do delivery. So built a small team, raised some money. Actually, Stephen Bowl, the uh founder of coupons.com, was one of my first angel investors. He was one of my biggest competitors and friend of me with my previous company, but he came in, you know, gave us a lot of support early on. And um, you know, long and short of it, it it was a it was when I started meeting with VCs, you know, and really starting to look at how I capitalize this, I realized what I was doing wasn't all that sexy and it wasn't all that exciting, and it it really wasn't any different than anybody else that was doing that. So it was frustrating because we built a really cool business. And like I told Lisa, we could do this just bootstrapping it for forever, and we could probably do pretty well. But I'm intrigued by how we can change the dynamics, you know, in last mile delivery. That's I didn't want to be in home moving. Home moving is a tough business.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

So when yeah when you say you could do this forever and you've got this business that's it's kind of working, that was the that at that point you were basically just an operator with assets or no assets, and you were doing home deliveries and or doing moving. Yeah, it was the Uber model, right?

The Spark For OneRail: A Fridge Delay

SPEAKER_00 47:06

It was a gig, it was a gig model. So we would recruit drivers who had their own trucks. It was called Zapped. So we would recruit drivers that had their own trucks, and we would just like Uber does put them through an onboarding process. We procured insurance, um, and then we would advertise because it was consumer-facing, and and people would use our app to book a home move or a delivery, okay, and we would dispatch it. And it was a rapid service, too. We we were guaranteeing that we would have people to your house within an hour, and it was very seldom that we couldn't, but it was so hard, it was so hard, and it was after doing that for about a year and a half, ironically, 18 months, that I realized, duh, you know, what you did at mdot is exactly what you need to do here. You need to aggregate supply. There's plenty of great couriers out there, like GoShare and Bungie were early on, Roadie was early on. There's all these great couriers out there. And then if I'm a shipper, do I wouldn't I just want to put all my data through one engine to figure out if it should go parcel or courier or LTL? Why would I want to have like multiple TMSs and solutions to do all that? So the concept is is identical to what we're doing now, you know, and and the model was real simple. Have a multimodal shipping platform for last mile delivery, aggregate all these couriers into one massive pool, have a way to sort out you know, good performers and bad performers, kind of in real time, um, give give the easy button to the retailer so they can scale an Amazon-like strategy. And and that's what that's what OneRail became. Yeah. And when did OneRail officially launch? So we if so we officially, yeah, so it was it was September of 19 where I made the big decision to shut off the the move, the on-demand moving. And it was hard. I mean, it still was revenue and it still was somewhat cash flow positive, but I that was when the real pivot happened. I would say the moment we shut revenue off and we had a regroup, brought in advisors, you know, from Neil Neil Ackerman being one of them, who had the Amazon background and and some key people that had invested. And we started to move forward. And we at that time we had our first customer. I built the first prototype for one rail, actually worked. And it was American Tire Distributors, and they they became not only a customer, but a fairly significant investor early on. Um, they they weren't signed, but we, you know, there was a lot of interest, there was a lot of curiosity, there was kind of a commitment, but we didn't have contracting done. So that was September 19, and then we announced our for our first funding round in February of 20, right before the COVID lockdown.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Well, what were some of your thoughts around moving from uh consumer customer to a base to like a more retail B2B customer base?

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Honestly, it's more in my wheelhouse. You know, if you look at m dot, it was completely white labeled B2B software, B2B2C. B2B to C is it tends to be where I do best, and and white labeling tends to be where I do best. And aggregating is usually a central theme. So it sort of checked all those boxes, and um, and then it was just a matter, you know, once we had line of sight to capital with Las Solas and Chicago Ventures, then it was then it was really a matter of how do we start putting the right people in place because our team was pretty thin. So I found a great CTO, David Dashler, started hiring real engineers where I didn't have to tether things together with Zapier um to make it work, and uh and we were kind of off to the races at that point.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

And and before your product existed, what what did the solution look like for Lowe's or Home Depot in terms of managing this part of their business?

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Yeah, so uh I like to think of it, you know, pre-OneRail, it's a very static decisioning process and and in some cases, you know, non-digital. So what we saw, you know, was sort of a hardware of if a delivery comes in this zip code, give it to this courier with any without contemplation of if they have capacity or not. Because most you know, TMSs are highly, highly efficient around LTL, FTL, Ocean Air Rail. What we found was TMSs struggle to get into that granular courier ecosystem. And you got the big guys like Uber and Doordash, and at the time Lyft up here, but what about Tom's really good delivery service that has box trucks in Boise, Idaho? Who's tapping into that? You know, and and so how do we harness all this supply so that we can offer a network that has sedans all the way up through flatbeds? And and that's really what the challenge was. And TMS solutions, even now, really, you know, that's not the focus. Um, to get into that granular and then and then complex decisioning. What's the right network at the right time of day based on demand cycles and demand curves? Um, you know, so our customers were using Excel. They were in some cases would just open up a roadie portal and enter a delivery. And that's what we saw at American Tire Distributors. They would get an order on a green screen over here, and then over here, they had another swivel chair, and they would enter into a UI uh the delivery data. It took 10 minutes to do that, and we were able to do it, you know, like a credit card swipe. As soon as the order hit Oracle, it would go right into our system and we decision upon it and dispatch, you know, all like a credit card swipe. And that's where the word rail came from was the payment industry.

SPEAKER_01 53:07

That's so interesting because the first time I ever heard one rail, I just assumed it was uh something to do with the trains intermodal.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Yeah, it was difficult for me. I think it was Craig Fuller. Uh he never holds his words back. So I went to uh it was Dynamo Ventures invited me to their founder camp, and it was literally at the moment of pivot. We had to write a website for that event, we had to put everything together, we had nothing. We just just came up with the name OneRail, and he he comes up to me. There was a reception at Freight Waves, he said, So how what's going on with the rail and last mile? I don't understand it. Like, what and I didn't know him from Adam at that point because I'm I'm not from this industry, right? I'm the outsider, but uh profound respect there. Uh, you know, he he got it, you know, because he has a fintech background. Um, a lot of people don't realize when you swipe a credit card, you know, there's six to eight transactions that happen instantly, and handoffs of data and execution rules, governance, data privacy and security, all that wrapped into one transaction. That was my vision for what last mile could be. It should be one seamless transaction that happens in milliseconds, where there's data exchange, there's real-time telemetry, there's governance, there's data privacy and security, there's rules. And and that's why the word rail is in our name. It's it's a rail for for last mile fulfillment.

From Gig Moving To Aggregated Capacity

SPEAKER_01 54:36

Yeah, I like it. I'm curious. Um, the customer base, is it all kind of enterprise retailers, or is there a long tail to of like mom pop? Does that fit into this business or not so much?

SPEAKER_00 54:50

We we have focused maniacally on big enterprise. Um, the thought process so that back when, you know, September of 19, when I sat around the table with my advisors and a few people, we made a conscious decision. Let's go tackle some of the biggest shippers in the United States. And and that's hard, right? That's not conventional wisdom. A lot of times with a startup, hey, let's go do kind of an off-Broadway presentation with some SMBs and then we can move upstream. I had enough gray hair at that point and enough confidence, I think, in having made MDOT successful, which point of sale is hard, hard, hard in different ways than logistics. It's brain surgery. Nobody trusts point of sale development. So the way we were able to do that and make it seamless and scale it, I carried a little bit of you know, enough credibility to go into a big retailer and say, hey, I did this over here, I'm doing this over here. Um so we made a conscious decision, just big, big enterprise. Um, and we haven't veered from that. And the the thought process, which you'll understand better than anybody, density is the key to success. So if I go out there and sign Bob's furniture and a consignment shop, and I'm not building any density, that was what I learned being a courier was how the hell do I ever get there? Like I'm gonna because my network would walk away. It was like herding cats. I'd I'd recruit these people and I didn't have enough deliveries or moves to give them, and they would leave. I didn't want to have that problem, which is why we decided to aggregate all the supply of couriers, and we become a source of remnant capacity for them instead of we we either eat or we don't eat today based on what what you know what one rail's doing, which is kind of what the other, you know, the first version of the business, they would rely on us because they were our drivers.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

So help me understand is one rail more the the guts of it's a it's the system, or is it also the intermediary between Lowe's and all of the couriers? And if the latter is correct, well, let me just answer that first and then I'll ask my follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

Yeah, yeah. Probably the biggest challenge I had in raising capital was this very this very topic, um, which hasn't been a problem, you know, for several rounds. But in the early you know, seed and series A, well, it was a challenge. We are a platform first, we are a software company, we have 90 engineers, we have we exchange tens of billions of API transactions a year. Very, very much a technology platform, and we and we lead with that. Now, on top of that, we have aggregated this network, and our customers can elect to use that network if they don't want to go out and procure Bob's really good trucking in Boise, Idaho, whom we've already onboarded and have API connected or they're using our app. So we're bringing, and this was something that uh Jeff Silver thought was quite fascinating because he's never seen anybody pull it off. And when I somebody like that tells you that, you listen. Um, and you're you're both scared and excited all at the same time. But this was about a year ago, he told me that I haven't seen anybody really pull that move off. It's a hard move to pull off because you're essentially ratcheting up supply and demand, and it has to be timed right because that same problem can happen where you lose, you know, you lose interest of a network if you can't keep it busy. So we we own the platform, we license that to our customers, and then we have some customers that use only our capacity. So we give our customers a rate card, one single rate card that spans 1,500 delivery companies. And we have a team of 20 on data science and AI that have completely optimized that so we know who is the right network at the right time of day, in the right zip code for a certain speed or SLA, even down to a product level. And and that's how we've been able to do this. Um if it wasn't for data science and AI, we could not do what we do. Um I'm hopefully that answered your question. Yes. There's one more thing though. There's a third layer. The third layer we learned from the hard knocks of being a moving company, and that's the human support. So we have an exception management team. So not only do we provide the tech that bolts onto your existing systems, OMS, TMS, etc., we provide capacity. So if you don't have capacity, we have capacity. The third component is the team that's managing exceptions that the technology can't handle. And in doing about 300,000 deliveries a day, there's there's deliveries that we still have to touch. And that number gets fewer and fewer uh as a percentage basis. But it's the third leg of the platform.

OneRail’s Model: Platform, Network, Humans

SPEAKER_01 59:42

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SPEAKER_00 1:02:25

Yeah, that's a great question. So from moment one, you know, we took a success-based approach where we have a team, you know, that's out there perpetually recruiting couriers to join the network. And it's based on our heat map, you know, SLA success, you know, new programs coming up, you know, U.S. foods was a was a big shift for us. Going into refrigerated and frozen was was we didn't have any refrigerated frozen assets. So we we needed to start building that network. Um, and there's specializations, as you know, in industrial supply, pipe, pipe trucks and glass trucks and different things. So there one investor asked me uh who didn't become an investor because I don't think it would have been a good fit. But so are you going to be done at some point, like recruiting all these networks? No, we're never. It's like trying to surf to the end of the internet. We'll never be done. Like, you want us to just stop managing the carriers. So we have a team that recruits and onboards, you know, we do all the insurance certifications and we track that digitally, whether they're in compliance or not. And then we have a success team. And that's all about QA. And that's kind of, I think, getting to what your question is. Uh, very much like we manage our customers, we have QBRs, you know, with the biggest ones. Obviously, we're not going to do that with all 1500. And quite frankly, it's the 80-20 rule, as you can imagine. You know, we have a handful of, you know, handful is in a couple hundred couriers that are doing most of the business. And we dedicate a lot of resources to coaching them. They get, they get all the metrics, you know, around every market. Um, and we have a team that manages them. So that's been our approach. And quite frankly, you know, it's very similar to what what what you know of brokerage. It's just at a different in a different mode.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:09

What what does the competitive landscape look like compared to the brokerage world? Where in brokerage, you know, we had 40,000 competitors and it was fairly undifferentiated. I feel like it's got to be a different environment you're dealing with.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:22

I think it was harder for you in a lot of ways, and and within that space, because there are so many competitors and the barriers to entry aren't quite as high as building this spaceship platform. You know, it's so that makes it harder in a lot of ways. But for us, we don't have, we don't think of one single competitor. We have competitors in the software space. We have some of our own couriers, you know, are are also trying to work directly with retailers or or industrial distribution uh uh wholesale companies. So we we kind of have a couple different pillars of competitors, and it's been that way from day one. You know, there's not many software companies that want to roll their sleeves up and manage transportation.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:10

Yeah, that's true. Has has AI been a uh transformative element to the business the last few years and how you think about what you're building, or is it more like a a somewhat helpful add-on to create a few efficiencies, efficiencies?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:31

It may actually be why we're still in business to be to be like to totally level set that. Elaborate. I just did this, yeah. I just did this math yesterday. So when we started in in the prototype environment that myself and another guy named Barr built, well, we actually launched a live customer with, um we had dispatchers. So it was think of it as a digital dispatch model where an order would come in from Menard's home improvement. It would go into the dispatcher screen. Based on zip code, it would populate couriers in that zip code. And then the dispatcher picked the right courier. How they picked the right courier, I have no idea. But they picked a courier. There was no logic behind which courier they picked. So it was very dumb. You know, there was no AI, there was no data optimization. It was literally get an order here, get it here. Because the problem we were really trying to solve at first was Excel and phone calls and email. So that's where we started. When I brought in David Dashler, though, David, he conceptualized this a lot like video streaming, where we need to rifle deliveries at a delivery company as fast as we can, and then when we see degradation, pull them back. And then that led to this whole concept of a credit score, essentially, for a courier, but at a market level, at an SLA level, not carte blanche, right? If you're serving 400 cities, it might just be Detroit's messed up. You don't want to penalize a courier for that. So the concept of how we leveraged AI and data science, it was built into the first line of code from when David started writing the code. But where we really got serious was when we launched Lowe's, and now we're in 1700 stores, we started to expose cracks. And we had cracks in the network, we had cracks in how we were selecting couriers, cost containment, etc. So one of the one of the probably the better decisions I've made, made a lot of bad ones, but one good one I'm I'm happy about is I got David uh to agree, hey, we need you to come over here and be the EVP of data science and AI. And then I went out and found a scale CTO, Chris Kucharski, who was the SVP of engineering at Angie's list. And actually he was the CTO at DAT, Freight and Analytics before OneRail. So I found a great CTO. Not that David wasn't, but I needed somebody to fill that slot and be able to scale the hell out of this team. And then I needed David. David had started experimenting with data science and AI stuff. He grabbed me in the office one day, like a little kid, and sat me next to him. He showed me all this stuff. I said, David, are you having fun being the CTO? Is it fun for you? Because I didn't think it was. He said, not really. I said, is this fun? Yeah. Like, okay, I would like to just do this during the day. So David, so um what it did is it turned the business, you know, in into a totally different business. Um, he started building a team. We only had three people on the team to start. Today the team has 16, 17, a couple PhDs. And what we do with that team, yes, we're we're always implementing internally new efficiencies for how we can, you know, grow margin. But the the the bulk, probably 80% of the focus is how do we continue to optimize that decision further and further and further? Um, we have a price prediction index just like DAT does for LTL and FTL. We have that for last mile. I don't know who else has that. We've never productized it, like brought it to the market. We're going to. So being able to have really unique data from our execution, I think, will really help our you know, our continued scale and flywheel as we start to build it. Um, but it's they'll share one number with you, bringing it back to digital dispatcher. Digital dispatcher could do 80 a day. That's not a lot. Um, we also didn't have a lot. You know, we only we only had a few hundred deliveries. One head today can do 4,000 deliveries, roughly. So, and that's not dispatching, it's triaging, you know, uh exceptions. So I figured it out. We'd have to have like, I don't know, 3,700 employees to to digitally dispatch all the orders that we have. And we couldn't be in business. You know, there's no way we would even be in business. So it's it's life and death data science and AI for us.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:55

What what percent of orders have exceptions in this business?

Managing Carriers, QA, And Specialization

SPEAKER_00 1:10:01

Yeah, so so it it ranges. That's kind of a tough question because if we're talking about auto parts, and we're talking, you know, we do a lot with advanced auto parts, worked with them all 5,000 stores for the last few years, you're talking fractional percentages because it's a very simple delivery. You're taking a parcel-sized package most of the time, and you're going, you know, a mile, five miles. And then the networks that are doing those deliveries, they're very mature networks. You know, it's not, it's not necessarily your you're you're localized, it's more the national providers. So that's pretty easy. We signed a furniture chain, and holy cow, whole different, whole different dynamic. We had like a 12% exception rate, you know. Now humans didn't have to touch 12%, but it was a 12% exception rate. Um, so yeah, it ranges from almost nothing to 12%.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

And what are those common exceptions you run into on these types of deliveries?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:03

Yeah, you know, if we're going back to the more simple deliveries, you know, it could be wrong address or missing items. But if it gets into furniture, it could be a lot of things. You know, um, maybe they're having a challenge getting into the neighborhood, or maybe, you know, customers not home to receive because you got to have somebody there to receive it and put it in the house. And we actually would do white glove too, not just not just delivery. So getting into the nuances of damage, you know, there's the obviously when you cross the threshold, there's a lot of risk, there's a lot of a lot of things can happen. You can gouge a floor, you can ding a door uh door jam. So the exceptions change based on the parameters of what you're what you're delivering. Um, we have temperature monitoring, you know, for refrigerated and frozen. So if we see something off there, it'll flag it. Um and so yeah, we we we see a huge variance, we think through that, you know, as we're working with a customer, make sure that they're supported the right way. But yeah, it's a good question. I wish there was one one universal response to that, but it's it's a range.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:08

And and what does the kind of um risk look like in in terms of navigating damages and whatnot? Because it's I I totally see how you know delivering a refrigerator, uh, you know, the the wood gets scuffed or this or that, and like how often are they, you know, uh especially in in homes, like a homeowner is just pointing the finger at the delivery guy, delivery guy says, uh, it was like that when I got here. I'm imagining my own life uh as as I'm asking this question. And just does any of that fall back to you guys, or it's all kind of passed through as the intermediary?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:42

We take the full risk, and I know that sounds crazy, but we take the full risk, and we do that when we're when it's on our under our authority. And so if it's under our authority, we take the full risk. And we've just found a way to manage it, you know, manage it really well. We carry insurance, fmcsa bonded. Um, so we're we're on the hook, and and that's what I wanted to sign up for, and that's why uh it's a unique business because I don't think there's too many people that really want to sign up for both sides of the house there. Um but we again, data science is the key to everything. We can start to see patterns really early. You know, where do lost funds come from? Is it a carrier problem or is it a SKU problem? Is it an SLA problem? You know, are we trying to maybe it's too fast of a delivery for a complex product? We need to tell the customer don't do that. So it's you know, there's no universal um rule around that.

AI As Survival: From Dispatch To Decisions

SPEAKER_01 1:13:41

But yeah, we we are managing the whole thing soup to nuts. Yeah, see, I like that a lot. And it it reminds me of feelings and thoughts I had because in in in freight brokerage, 99% of brokers are just passing through any of that stuff and saying, hey, you know, hey, customer, you're my top customer, but this issue happened, and uh it's I understand I pick the carrier, but like I'm not paying for it. Like the carrier's got to pay for it, or I'm not paying for it. And and just that lack of accountability always irked me. And so I wanted us to kind of take more ownership, and I think we definitely took more ownership than than the average, but even so, like, you know, your insurance team would be like, this is not how it's supposed to work, like we're not supposed to be accountable for this. I'm like, Yeah, but like that's it's what we're signing up for to an extent. Because we're we're we picked that carrier and they screwed up, so that's kind of on us, and so I see how that's that's that's that would be a differentiator that you could leverage in in your sales process if you're and and the better point you make too is around listen, okay, we've made the commitment, like we we're owning it soup to nuts. Now, rather than just wish and hope that that doesn't hurt us, let's leverage every piece of data we have, every experience to learn from and say, hey, you know what? These furniture loads have a 12% exception. We need to have higher margins on these loads, or I'm we're not doing them. Like it just is not worth it to us. If if I'm taking all that risk and there's constantly an issue, um it reminds me of a seafood customer I had who there were always claims on on these frozen seafood loads. And it was oftentimes it was just the the the pallets had been like pierced by by clearly by a forklift as someone was poorly, you know, trying to load or unload the product. And we always would just get blamed for it. And and I'm like, listen, there's there's one common denominator here. I mean, you've got one shipping location, six delivery locations, six different carriers, and only one company that's like involved in every transaction. It's clearly happening at your shipping location. They're like, Oh, we don't care you have to accept it or not. And say, Okay, I accept it, but I'm charging you an extra$500 a load. And he's like, That's fine. Because he didn't want to deal with the issue. So he was like, That's fine. You can charge me the extra money per load. I just need these loads delivered. So I just bring that up as an example of like, you know, you always have a choice, and and you know, based on the decision you make, leverage every piece of data you have to put your business in the best position to execute effectively.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:16

100%. Yeah, that resonates for sure. You know, there's uh I was uh I was at NRF this week, have to think feels like a month ago, but it was actually Sunday. Um, and Ed Stack, the uh CEO uh or chairman of Dick Sporting Goods was speaking, and he it was one of the best lines I've ever heard. Um and he was talking about you know their culture and sort of how they how they approach problems. Um and you you never say no because don't ever lead with no because you lead with yes if and that and that gets back to yes, we can do this work if if we can correlate risk to reward, right? Um I was so moved by that because that's really how Lisa and I have approached this business. It's it's with our customers, we we seldom say no. We never say no. It's it's yes if. But I never framed it as well and eloquently as he did. Um so I think uh that says it all. Yes if.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:26

It's the difference between looking for solutions and and uh avoiding problems. Yes, exactly. Right, and I think that's so such a I appreciate you sharing that. I've never heard that, and I agree wholeheartedly because it it always opens the door. You know, because someone asks you, what do we do we should we do this? And if you start with no because the door is closed. If you if you start with yes, if the door is open, it's saying, hey, yes. And then it brings up what the potential challenges are that would prevent you from moving forward, but you're looking at it through the lens of how do we how do we open this door and figure it out?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:09

I found that to be a great trait with with venture funds and investors. You know, you get a no, you get a pass. All right, what's it gonna take for that not to be a pass? Well, you got to go sign this contract, you need a CTO, you need this, you need that. And I show back up on your doorstep, you know, two months later. And I've done this, this, this, and this. It's kind of hard not to get a term sheet if I did this, this, this, and this. So it it works in in almost every facet, you know. Um, yeah, I'm really honestly, that's probably one of the best things I took away from the show across everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:41

Yeah, that might be the best thing I'd take from this interview, if I'm being honest. No offense to everything else you've said, it's been great, but I really that has stuck with me. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:51

It's brilliant. He's a brilliant guy. It was one of the best presentations I've seen at the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:55

So speaking of term sheets, you you all uh raised your series C. Um, how much was that for?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:02

Uh 42 million.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:04

42 million bucks. That's a lot of money. So, what uh what are we doing with 42 million bucks? What's changing about this business with 42 million bucks in the bank?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:14

I will say it's it was the first year of running this business last year that I didn't have to raise capital. That felt really good. We got to actually work on the business, be heads down. Um, you know, we've raised about 109 since February of 20. And it's uh it's a lot of capital, you know, 25-30% of it has come from our customers, which you know, I'm really proud of. Um and that's been a that's been a huge, I think, driver of the deep relationships. You know, it's a great signal that we're really creating some differentiation for them. Um, but at the end of the day, you know, it's all about growth. It was a growth investment. Uh the day we've never been a grow at all costs company. That's just not in my DNA. It gets back to the frugal racer. But we do things, you know, to continue to drive into new verticals, drive deeper into the verticals that are working. Uh, we just opened an office in in Krakow, Poland for engineering, where we're building out a team there. Um, and and that's really that's that's a big part of I think where we'll see the engineering uh kind of roadmap go is that team, just great people there, very skilled. Um it's good to have a presence in in Europe. You know, we have not done really any major international expansion yet, but uh the purpose of the growth round was entirely about driving growth. So sales and marketing, um making sure that we can continue to build on our product roadmap, you know, secondary to growth. Um and we know we did a small acquisition last year, uh it was an order management solution. We believe some of the answers, you know, to unlocking true like cost to serve impact uh and quality of service impact resides further upstream in the order flow. So that's why we're partnered with IBM Sterling. Um it's why we acquired an OMS, and we're gonna continue to look for ways you know that we can get further upstream and just penetrate some of the intelligence up there so we can make more impact at the doorstep.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:19

So when you think about, we talked earlier, and you brought up this was more around the idea of like when is the time to sell the business? But the questions you ask yourself at that time, I'm curious how they might apply in this current environment where it's you know, where is OneRail today in, you know, where is the competitive market right now? What does the TAM still look like for OneRail? You know, is this feel like in terms of your penetration, does it feel like you're in the second inning? Does it feel like you're in the seventh inning? Are we doing the seventh inning stretch right now? Like, where are we there? And then separate from that, you mentioned buying an OMS, and it sounds like there's still a lot of evolution on what the product can be. And and so I'm curious on that front, like where are we? Is early inning still, or are we really feeling like we're we're almost there?

Exceptions, Risk, And Owning Outcomes

SPEAKER_00 1:22:15

Yeah, great question. And and I do, I wake up every day and you know, take inventory of where we are, and where I think, you know, first of all, I keep a photo, uh, it's a big canvas of Jeff Bezos sitting at his desk. I want to say it's 1997 or eight, and Amazon is spray painted on a banner with a can of spray paint on the wall. You've probably seen that image, and that's one of my favorite images because I and I look at there's a reason it's on the wall. You know, I see it every day. I gotta look at it, and it's not, yeah, it's always day one. I love that concept, but the reason that's on the wall, when I look at that and looking at it right now, did that man really know what he was going to do? Did he really, really know what he was gonna pull off at that stage of the game? And I I have some ideas for where I think this can go. And and I think we're in the early, I know we're in the early innings of last mile transformation. You know, we've gotten close with a lot of the consulting companies, we work really closely with a lot of the investment banks, and they're a great source of information. And it feels like there's about a seven-year, eight-year investment cycle ahead of us to really complete a digital supply chain transformation. And what we what we are seeing is last mile, specifically how we do it, is not the first thing people are thinking about. We're still early days. I mean, we've been able to grow every year, you know, and we've been real fortunate during some of the headwinds and difficulties in the market. That's why we were able to raise capital. It got really hard to raise capital. And you know, we we've been real fortunate. We've positioned ourselves the right way, I think. But it's it's entirely the same formula as it's always been for me. Now, I feel like we're in a place where the market's still kind of early. If I go through the check boxes, right? Market's still kind of early, not as early as MDOT was, but it's early. Um, if you consider international expansion, it's real early. Um, if you look at the team and the tech and how it stacks up, you know, we feel we we have a great solution. Um, we have a great team. The market is ultra competitive. You know, it's never been more competitive. We see you know, companies emerging all the time, and and I think you know, you'll see some roll-ups over the next couple of years. I think you're gonna start to see that activity. Um, you know, we want to be a buyer. We don't want to be a seller, we want to be a buyer. So we still very much have a lot of fuel in the tank, you know, from that C round. We've been real careful. You know, the company has continued to get a lot more profitable. We're not profitable yet, but we we believe we will be this year. Um and so exiting is the last thing I'm thinking about right now. I'm thinking about how can I be a buyer? How can I take my operating system, just like iOS, and append as many apps onto it as I can to run last mile fulfillment, you know, from inventory to doorstep. And that's where my headspace is. And as we look at what's ahead this year, you know, we have a very exciting announcement that's going to happen in Q in the end of Q1, beginning of Q2, um, with a key customer. So that's coming, you know, will drive a lot of growth for us. Uh, we're also doing a lot more to embed our solutions. So we're kind of now in a place where partnerships are starting to become a key for our distribution. So, how do we get embedded in OMSs? How do we get embedded in TMSs so that we become the de facto last mile shipping solution in those solutions? So um, that's kind of what's on the horizon. But lots of gas in the tank, and I think there's a lot of headspace to grow.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:08

Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, I just was just hearing all that got me fired up, and it frankly reminded me of I remember seeing uh you were named uh one rail was named Lowe's new delivery partner of the year. Was that what it was? New or innovation innovation part of the year.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:24

And then a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:26

Um it it just that takes me back to when we first got our an award like that from Anheuser Busch at Molo, and that was the beginning of like the super growth, right? When when the market starts to recognize you for the hard work you've done, and by market I mean like the market leaders, like the companies that you aspired to work for from day one, when they start to point at you in front of everyone and say, these are the folks that are really doing it well, that's where everybody else starts to turn their heads. And these other customers that maybe weren't as responsive to your cold outreach, or maybe they were just starting to work with you but hadn't gone all in with you, start to say, Well, if they're doing that well for them, how do I get how do I get some of their time invested into my business? Um so kudos to you and your team because clearly you're doing something right, and uh hopefully you see some of that similar growth trajectory as a result of uh the efforts there.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:26

Yeah, I I appreciate that. You know, uh I was emotional when when when that happened. I mean, that was it meant that much to me. You know, they're just the best partner uh in terms of transparency, and you know, we this team would do anything, you know, for any of our customers. But we're really proud, you know, that we took a a customer of their size that was not even in the same day market and were able to launch them, you know, from sedan to flatbed in night like I don't know, it was it was a few months. Um Again, it exposed cracks. Don't think for a second it was perfect. You know, and that's what a great partnership's all about. You know that, you know, better than anybody. You got to work at it, you gotta work through the problems with your with your customers. That's I think one of the ways you end up getting that recognition. And things weren't perfect, things are never going to be perfect, but it's how we work through them. That's what supply chain and logistics are all about. It's problem solving and overcoming the next problem, which is why I love this industry. Um, so yeah, thank you. I I appreciate that. Um, it meant a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:34

So last question I'll ask because I I know I've kept you longer than I said I would, somewhat due to my own technological issues before we started. But I guess the audience didn't have to know about that until I just brought it up. Oh no. Legacy. You know, when we started, I think you made a comment around the look back. Years from now, when people talk about Bill Catania, what do you want them to say about you and what you built?

Yes If: Culture, Customers, And Growth

SPEAKER_00 1:29:04

Um boy, that's a tough it is a tough question. Um well, I'll tell you what. Somebody that I have uh profound respect for is Fred Smith. When I had the idea, and this is no joke, this really happened. Okay. When I had the idea, and it was an idea, it was it wasn't there was nothing, it was PowerPoint. Um, I stayed up for two nights and I came up with one rail when that pivot happened. When that when the idea came, you know, for being not the pivot in 19, but before that one's like, this is what I gotta do, but I'm doing this now and I don't have any cash, so I'll do this when I when it feels like it's right. So September 19, it was right, but it but it was before that that I came up with the idea, and I sat on the idea of one rail. Um I again, I like to take the biggest swing I can. So I email Fred Smith, and he responds. And it's like, oh my god, what do I do now? Fred Smith responded, and he and he wants to hook me up with his EVP of retail. Now I'm really scared because I don't have anything. And uh, you know, had a great call, and they kind of at the time they had FedEx same day city, and and you know, they were kind of going down their path. Um, this happens several times through this journey, where Fred would respond. And and I would say Bradley Jacobs also responds. I have profound respect for people that are that busy. Everybody says, Oh, I'm busy, I'm sorry, and I do it all the time. I'll tell I'm sorry, I was too busy, I didn't respond to your text. If Fred Smith can respond to my tech, my email, or Bradley Jacobs can respond to my email, and I'm absolutely nobody, there was no one rail at that time, and at least I have a little bit of name recognition. I had no name recognition at that time. Um, and and the way that you know, the way that Fred is is bel, he's a beloved person within that the walls of that building. Um if I could be half that good, I'd be happy. And treat people that well, it's treating people well, and it's and it's it's really just continuing to evolve your business so that it's relevant, you know. That's a founder's founder type story. Like um, and probably, you know, again, I'm real fortunate. I've been able to bring some crazy stuff full circle. I got to meet him, you know. I I was at uh Goldman Sachs invited me to a uh innovation or innovators and builders summit uh on the West Coast last year, and he was the keynote speaker. So you can imagine I fangirled all over that. I I I stalked him, you know, and I'm really lucky I got to meet him before he passed. Um, and when I met him, I swear to you, if Lisa was here, he called me the email guy. He's I know you're the email guy. I'm like, how the hell do you how do you do that? I'm proud of that. I I'm beyond proud of that. Like it's just somebody that's done as much as he's done, um, can remember somebody as small as me. Uh I hope I can do that. Half as good. I'd be happy if I could do it half as good. That's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:17

All right. Well, I appreciate you. This was really I really enjoyed this. And uh, I think my audience will really enjoy getting to know you a little bit better. And um, I'm sure you'll have some new fans and maybe some new applications. You know, I haven't thought about that in a while, but I've I've I used to get a lot of my guests would get applications from uh potential employees after they came on the show.

unknown 1:32:39

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:40

Just because they like their story, and and just that just sparked in my mind because I I really think uh your story was awesome. And I appreciate the way you think about your business and and and the way you think about what you're doing. I just think that's I I wouldn't be surprised if someone saw this and was like, I kind of want to go work for that guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:58

So we would love that. We're we're always looking for great people, and you know, we're still still growing. You know, we uh you know, we have a good year ahead of us, I think, in terms of growth, and um there's a bunch of roles open. So if anybody's thinking about that, we'd we'd love uh love for you to send that resume in. Thank you, uh, Andrew, very much. It's an honor, it's an honor to spend time with you. You you have quite a story yourself, and and uh I've been able to meet your brother a whole bunch of times, but uh it's good to it's good to finally meet you and connect, and it's an honor to be on your show.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:31

Thank you. All right, friends. Uh that's all we got for this week. And uh,