A Job Done Well - Making Work Better

Show Me the Money - How to Earn More and Still Enjoy Your Job

• Jimmy Barber and James Lawther • Season 2 • Episode 31

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In this episode, we dive into how to make more money at work while still enjoying what you do. We chat about everything from the difference education makes to earnings, choosing the right industry and company, to the importance of ongoing development whilst climbing the corporate ladder. We share our stories and tips on networking, moving companies, and why enjoying your job is as essential as your paycheck! Plus, we discuss the downsides of focusing too much on money and why it doesn't always equal happiness. 

We also both have new gadgets this week. James's nine-year-old iPhone finally breathes its last, and Jimmy realises a new remote control is cheaper than a new TV.

Tune in for a mix of practical advice, humour, and some hard-earned 'wisdom' on balancing money and job satisfaction.

Speaker:

Hello, I'm James. Hi, I'm Jimmy and welcome to a Job Done Well, the podcast that helps you improve your performance enjoyment at work.

James:

Good afternoon. What are we talking about today then?

Jimmy:

Afternoon, James. Today we are talking about how you make more money

James:

Money.

Jimmy:

to

James:

lura.

Jimmy:

feel for Luca to quote from the great film Jerry McGuire. Show me the money.

James:

Ah,

Jimmy:

That's what we're gonna do today.

James:

I haven't saying that

Jimmy:

You need to watch it, James. You need to watch it.

James:

I'll try it. So we're talking about that for them. A stupid question, if ever there was

Jimmy:

It is a bit, but we are going to talk about it because it's the driver of work. For many people it's the motivator for many people. It's how people define success. But it also comes with some real downsides, and we've got experience of. Doing reasonably well and experiencing the downside. So we thought we'd share some of our strategies of motivation and money.

James:

Yeah. So it's a little bit like that. Rather smoke saying, do you live to work? Or work to live. So how important is the work and the money to you?

Jimmy:

Yeah, unlike you to have a smug saying, James.

James:

right.

Jimmy:

So anyhow, before we get into that, what have you been up to recently?

James:

well, very exciting. I have just bought myself a new iPhone. My iPhone is an iPhone seven. It's getting on a little bit and the battery's died on it, so I've

Jimmy:

It's done well though. I mean, Jesus.

James:

But you know, when you buy your first iPhone, it's really exciting, isn't it? You get this fantastic toy, you upgrade, and all of a sudden it's the same flipping thing. You're just spending several hundred notes on it. So it's not not terribly exciting. Hasn't turned up yet, but then this afternoon when it turns up, I've got the joy of trying to transfer all of this stuff from one to the other.

Jimmy:

Well, back in the day when you were doing it, what was it like? It's virtually like cutting and pasting stuff and doing it by steam engine. But yeah, you put'em next to each other and they will talk sweet music for you, James.

James:

not with my old one. It won't.

Jimmy:

Now we'll see.

James:

How about you?

Jimmy:

Well what have I,

James:

a question there actually. I

Jimmy:

yeah.

James:

about it, do you think a new phone makes me sexier?

Jimmy:

I think it would take rather more than a new phone to find you sexy James. Trust me. Well just in terms of new gadgets, I avoided a new gadget this week because I was buying, I was buying a new television for our front room. Just'cause the old one is pissing me off. And then I realized the reason it's pissing me off is the usability of the remote, not the actual television itself. So I bought myself a new remote for 25 quid and bingo, it works perfectly. So I just saved myself from buying a new tele.

James:

Very

Jimmy:

I was on the cusp. I was researching which Teledoc on

James:

Yeah. So why is money important then?

Jimmy:

It is obviously the reason why many of us go to work, but it's also how we define success and failure. And actually, yeah, depending on who you talk to, people will say it's a big motivator or they'll claim the moral high ground and say it's not a motivator when actually the. Re really, it is a motivator.'cause if you think back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you have to have the base needs in place before you can get onto the I'm at peace with the world. Well, the base needs are often about shelter, food, stuff like that. The stuff that money buys for you. so it is a, it is a real motivator for people, but it also does underpin. A lot of behavior and culture and the way companies work just because of the structures they have and the way people behave around those structures. So it is an important part of work, and so we thought we would share with you some of our hints and tips of what we've learned. So this is our perspective. It's not that this is foolproof, it's just our perspective on how you can go about trying to earn more money.

James:

Yep. Cool. So money won't buy. You love them, It

Jimmy:

which isn't strictly true.

James:

which street in knotting you go to. Yeah. But it does buy a lot of things, so go on. What does it buy you?

Jimmy:

Well, it, it bris you freedom. and freedom of choice. I mean, often, people talk about being financially independent and what they mean is that they've got enough money to stick two fingers up at their job. So they can do what they choose with their time.

James:

I I used to work with a guy once and he he put it very nicely. He said, you don't need that much money. What you need is your fucking money.

Jimmy:

Yeah, exactly.

James:

is just enough to be able to tell people where to go and stick it.

Jimmy:

Yeah, so that is freedom.

James:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

It also buys you possession. So there's the, the materialistic side of things, and for some people, not for everyone, but it also does get you respect. So other people do look at you with an amount of respect or envy at times.

James:

Well, but that's mixed, isn't it? Right. So here's a story. I used to work for a guy and we were having a, and we were having a conversation about in Nottingham I lived. And he said to me, oh, I bet you live in WestBridge. And if you listen to this and you don't know why West Bridgeford is, it's the sort of chintzy, bit of Nottingham.

Jimmy:

Middle class suburb.

James:

Middle class. Well, it's not really middle class, it's very upper middle class. You live in West Bridgeford, don't you? And I looked at him and I said, I do not live in West Bridgeford. It's full of flip People driving white range rovers up their gravel drives. And this guy was much more senior than me and I looked at him, I said. Please don't tell me you drive a white Range Rover. looked at me, he says, no, mine's a black one, so, Ooh. Yeah, but money doesn't necessarily buy you respect. That's the point I'm trying to make. You can show what you've got, but doesn't mean people are gonna like you for it necessarily.

Jimmy:

necessarily. And, and some people will like you, and some people will absolutely despise you for it. But it also does, drive your attitudes and behaviors. So like you say, the amount of tolerance you'll have for bullshit at work or the, the choices you'll make with your career, and it does for some people. It creates a finishing line. So I remember when me and a, a friend of mine by the time we were 30, we wanted to be earning 30 grand a year. That was our finishing line. And we decided that if we got to 30 and we weren't earning 30 grand a year, we would turn to crime. It's got to, there's gotta be an easy way of doing it. Now, don't get me wrong, this is not our advice. We are not saying turn to crime. When I was 29 and a half, I got a pay rise that took me over 30 grand. I was quite relieved. I didn't have to become a criminal to be successful. But in all ness, it creates a finishing line. People will think how much money they need to buy something, achieve something, retire, whatever. It's,

James:

Yeah, it's a score. Definitely a

Jimmy:

yeah. Yeah.

James:

Well, and then there's another question, right? Does

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

you happiness? And they, I've seen some research on this and it comes back to your point about Maslow's hierarchy of needs to a certain point. does buy you happiness, absolutely. If you're putting a roof over your heads or you're feeding your kids

Jimmy:

You worry less about stuff. Yeah,

James:

don't have to

Jimmy:

absolutely.

James:

up to a point certainly bites you happiness. After that, it doesn't make a damn of difference to your happiness at all until you get to the point where you've got so much money that you have to um, about, you know, people kidnapping your kids. So actually people who've got an awful lot of money, it doesn't make them happy at all.

Jimmy:

Also, if you're going on to happiness and billionaires, there's the the, the story that you often tell James about bill Gates isn't there,

James:

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Jimmy:

you know?

James:

a money I do respect.

Jimmy:

Yes.

James:

a lot of money. Yeah.

Jimmy:

But his happiness doesn't come from the amount of money or keeping score or how many cars he drives. His happiness comes from what he does with the money.

James:

Yeah. How he's spending it.

Jimmy:

Yeah. And he does it for the good of the world. And I guess, you can see how he's getting some satisfaction, some happiness out of that.

James:

Well, it makes you wonder how happy he is compared to How happy is Elon Musk at the moment? Interesting thought

Jimmy:

Well, if people keep blowing up Teslas and stopping buying his stuff and slack him off on social media all the more misery to him, I say,

James:

Yeah. Right. Anyway. And so let's just assume that you are in a position where you want to make more money,

Jimmy:

right? Yes.

James:

And we're talking about money here in a corporate environment, which is something we can talk about. We're not, you know, into entrepreneurialism or anything like that. If you are a wage slave, what are our top tips for making more money? So, go on. What are you gonna go for? Where'd you start?

Jimmy:

Well, the first one, the first one I think is think about your education. I know this is hypocrisy coming from somebody who has a very limited academic education. I. Actually, the statistics do tell you that the more you are educated, the more you earn. Remind me, remind what the numbers were. James.

James:

how had a look online and there are lies, dam lies and statistics, but apparently, if you have one degree,

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

mean nor the mean nominal salary For a working age graduate in the UK is 40,000 pounds, allegedly. you have two, you've got a postgraduate degree.

Jimmy:

Yeah,

James:

mean nominal salary is 45 grand,

Jimmy:

yeah,

James:

and if you have no degree, the mean nominal salary is 29,500. Now you're gonna ask me what a mean nominal salary is. I've got no idea. But I think the point is that the better educated you are, the more likely you are to make more

Jimmy:

yeah. On average.

James:

on

Jimmy:

And, and, and all, all of these, all of these will be averages, won't they?

James:

yeah, my daughter went to she's currently looking to go to university and she was looking at economics and she went into this lecture hall and the economics teacher stood up and told her that if you want to make a lot of money on average, the best thing to do is become a dentist apparently in the uk.

Jimmy:

Oof.

James:

you know, you may, yeah, I know you sit in a room looking at people's teeth all day, but apparently there are, there are things you can do from an education point of view if you want to make more money.

Jimmy:

Which, which does lead to then the choices that you make about what industry you work in. So, thinking about the type of industry, the type of job or the type of company, I think all of those three things can influence them. So let's just pick them up. One by one. My, my example around industry is I started off working in the gambling industry and you were badly paid. This may have changed, but at the time you were badly paid. And the reason why you were badly paid is'cause you spent all day working with sports I was paid to watch football matches. So, as a result. Your salaries weren't that competitive. If you compare that to where I ended up in financial services, where you are rewarded significantly higher than, than a lot of other industries. similarly, if you take working for a charity or any other really strong purpose, purpose-driven organization, they often will pay you less because they, figure that you are getting a lot out of it in terms of satisfaction.

James:

And so I did some more looking up to find

Jimmy:

Yeah,

James:

for you.

Jimmy:

go on in.

James:

On average and somebody in the UK earns 36 and a bit grand. And

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

in financial services you earn 70,000 pounds a year on average.

Speaker 2:

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James:

But there is an interesting thing for me there. So I have worked in insurance and I've also worked for a bank, both of which are m. Financial services. And I think that I enjoyed my time in insurance much more than I did in banking because I felt, when I was working for a bank, I spent my life lending money to people who really shouldn't have money lent to them. Whereas when I was working in insurance, I felt I was doing something useful for people.'cause you were fixing their roofs when there was a storm or their cars when they had an accident. And so I do think there is something about finding the right industry for you where you, You feel like you're delivering something, you do. Doing something useful'cause that will make you happy.

Jimmy:

Yeah, but choosing your industry carefully will, is one way of earning more money. Looking at the types of jobs, so I remember we did a, a benchmarking exercise in one organization I was in, and we clearly showed that when you compared it to kind of market rates, analysts were earning, you know, at the top end of the pay scale. And at the bottom end of the pay scale was people in HR and people in operations. So there is something about the types of jobs that you have that will also impact in terms of of value.

James:

Yeah, but that depends on the industry as well.

Jimmy:

It does.

James:

for example, if you're an operations person working in a bank, you're probably not gonna get paid as much as the analysts. However, if you're an operations person working in, oh, I dunno, FMCG, running a big factory, then you're probably very well paid. So yeah. Pick your industry and pick your job function.

Jimmy:

And then the other one then is pick your company. So if you're working, say for example, you're working for one of the big four companies in, in consulting and auditing, you're going to earn a lot more than if you are working in the public sector. So I think the point is industry, job, and company. You can't look at it in isolation, but there is massive differences if you make different choices within that kind of that matrix. So what else have we got, James?

James:

The next thing I think really is it's about personal development, ongoing developments, which links to the point on education.

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

Getting the experiences and the qualifications, which will help you in your career? Yeah.

Jimmy:

Keeping that knowledge current, it also keeps it marketable, doesn't it? I think the other, the other obvious way of, of earning more money is just. Climbing the ladder, the corporate ladder. So getting promotions, moving up through the organization. And I say this as a, as a specific strategy because you can find people that do fantastic work, but they have no interest in getting on. So really understanding what is it that takes to get to the next level and then going out and building that skill or developing that skill is key. Also when you get promoted, when you get a new job, quite often we do it for the pay rise, but I always think that you should, in any job that you take on, you should prove your worth before you expect to get paid, which is counter to how a lot of people go into these things. They go in, get, get a promotion, get a new job straight away. It's like, right, what you gonna pay me? Well. You haven't proven your worth yet, have you? It's potential. There's a potential that you're gonna do well at this job, but you haven't proven that. And certainly one of the biggest pay rises I ever got was when I took on a new job, they expanded it massively. And I just got on with that expanded role and I did it for a year until I'd shown my worth. And then at the end of the year I discussed the pay rides and, awkward as that may sound and that that may feel, you know, actually. Talking about what I was worth in terms of doing that job, but also looking at benchmarks as to people doing that sort of job, what they were paid. That's one way of taking some of the emotion out of asking for a pay rise. Is that external comparisons?

James:

But if you're gonna do that, you've got to have some very sensible justification for it.

Jimmy:

Oh yeah, definitely. you're never gonna get paid more money'cause that's just'cause of what you want.

James:

Now the other two, I think two things which are linked very strongly about earning more money in a corporate environment networks and moving companies. So let

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

with networks. So the people that you know, the people that you work with, the people that you are friendly with, they will be the per people who find you new jobs and find you new opportunities. So really, so we've said it before, but investing in that network I think is all important. I,

Jimmy:

Yeah, I think every, every piece of work I've done for the last 15 years, everything has been the result of something to do with my network.

James:

but then that leads onto the second thing, which is about moving companies. So I've got another statistic

Jimmy:

Gone in.

James:

People who move companies will get an average increase in earnings of 9.5%,

Jimmy:

Yep.

James:

whereas people who move jobs within a company get an average increase in the earning of 2.9%. So it is much, much more lucrative to, move companies and then just move jobs.

Jimmy:

And that's, I mean, that's interesting'cause I've always been of the, the view that external hire gets more than the internal promote. And I think that statistically proves it. James.

James:

Well, and you know, if anybody's out, I've moved companies, well five or six times in my career. So if anybody wants proof that you can be an overpaid idiot. There you go. I am the the living proof of that definitely works

Jimmy:

I am not gonna disagree with you, James. I.

James:

couldn't disagree with me, but I think the thing for all of those, before we come onto the next point is actually is a huge amount in there about doing the things that you enjoy, and I would just really reiterate that. Don't just chase the money. Work in. A job that you enjoy in an industry that you enjoy and develop the skills that you enjoy.'cause if you're doing those things, then you will do better rather than flogging yourself trying to be, you know, on the world's best actuary or whatever it is, when you really don't enjoy it.

Jimmy:

Well, I think, I think that's the, the problem, James, is that if you go one dimensionally about money, which is I, I get certain education, I choose my, my industry carefully. I've chosen my job, I've chosen my company. You do all of those things. Then you develop yourself and you get promotions and, and if the core subject. And the things that you are doing are stuff that fundamentally you don't enjoy, you won't do particularly well because you won't put the effort in. You won't unlock discretionary effort to learn new stuff'cause it's stuff that you don't enjoy. So I, I don't believe that to really optimize your earnings without optimizing your enjoyment of something, I don't think that's really possible.

James:

before we get to preachy, in terms of optimizing your earnings. Yeah. know, there is the dark side to the force here. There are other things that you can do if you

Jimmy:

There are, some of the things that we wouldn't necessarily recommend, but you can do them and they will result in earning more money, even if it is temporarily, you know, things like working out the bonus and reward structures in your company both officially. What's written down, what they say they are going to reward and practically what they really reward, and then adapting your behaviors. That's, you know, a very very straightforward way of doing things. But equally, one of the classics that I've seen people do very well at is be really great at managing upwards. And when we did a, an episode previously about managing upwards and how you can do that, but if you do that relentlessly. You'll make yourself a great name. Everyone below you might hate you, but your boss who makes decisions on your pay and reward will probably think well of you and you will earn more money. I think the other thing is, you are being realistic about trying to get to the top of any thing that you're doing is, it's a minuscule number of people that get to be a CEO or, earn footballers, wages, or, you know,

James:

Be a

Jimmy:

be an entrepreneur and.

James:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

Musk. These are small percentage of people. So being realistic about what's achievable within a certain dimension. You know, you might be able to earn millions as a footballer, but a microscopic percentage of people are successful at that.

James:

Yeah, so it is about playing the averages, quite frankly.

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

So there's some of the things, James, that we have experienced that, that, people can think of and will help them earn more money. What are, what are some of the downsides to doing some of this stuff?

James:

Do you know, there is always somebody who's got a bigger flipping yacht.

Jimmy:

Yes.

James:

much you earn, there is always somebody who's got more money than you have got. And if you only measure your success on a single dimension, how much money you've earned, you are always gonna want more, and you are always gonna be disappointed. So my strong advice would be don't go down there because you just, you are heading for a fail.

Jimmy:

it's like that saying James you know, comparison is the thief of joy. And we both in our career have had a very similar experience of discovering what other people earn. My, my experience was once my pa who did a lot of the salaries for for my team, she had to input the salaries. The IT department gave her the wrong access and it gave her access to everyone's salaries in the organization. So I said to her, look, you know, you need to go and tell them, that they're giving you the wrong access. But before you do that, can you just look up what.

James:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jimmy:

So we, we spent half an hour looking at all these people's salaries and we had two reactions. One was, it was either what James Law that gets that he's not worth that. That's ridiculous. Or is that all James gets paid? Oh my God. There's, you never look at it and think that's spot on. That's right. So

James:

Yeah, there

Jimmy:

just don't go down that route. I mean, it is not good to know other people's s It brings nothing but misery.

James:

Yeah. The other thing is actually having a lot of money. I went to San summer on holiday, which if you don't know, it is the south of France and it's famously, it is the playground of the phenomenally rich and famous. Yeah. And, I was walking around and there was a, there was a a, well, one of several yachts, but this yacht was bigger than my house. It was Matt Black,

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

the name of the yacht was Apex Predator.

Jimmy:

Huh

James:

you've gotta say to yourself, if that is the best thing you can do with all your money. Yeah. What is wrong with these people?

Jimmy:

All. Although,

James:

yourself

Jimmy:

in fairness, James, I was in ibi A

James:

it your

Jimmy:

no, I,

James:

telling

Jimmy:

I was on my apex predator and there was this, there was this stalker who kept fucking looking up at my boat.

James:

Yeah,

Jimmy:

I was, I was in IHA and we went to the marina there and somebody had a boat called Boom Shaka. We, we loved it. It is like, I'd love to be going around on that boat. Anyhow, the, some of the other things to think about is

James:

your boat sensibly.

Jimmy:

yeah,

James:

Is it? Yeah.

Jimmy:

but some of the other things to think about is. Some of the behaviors that you can show on some of the things that we discussed previously. It can impact your relationships, it can impact how people perceive you. And quite often people look at it with, amount of disdain or, or, or jealousy. I mean, there's, I remember one example, one of our senior execs in one organization we worked at was sitting with a, a group of frontline. Team members and he was just talking to them about the fact that he had just got the annual bonus that we all got and he had spent his on buying a new Porsche

James:

Oh,

Jimmy:

and, and he, he thought.

James:

probably about three times what these guys on the phone were earning.

Jimmy:

Oh yeah, without a doubt. And some, but the, the, I guess the thing was when they, they were all disgusted with him and they thought it was absolute knob as rightly they should, but when he was talked to about that, he turned around and says, well, you know, I thought I was being aspirational. I was giving them something to aim for. It's like, no, you're not. You're just looking at an absolute dick. So that's what I mean about sometimes people's behavior around money can. really create a, a negative perception of them.

James:

Yeah. On the subject of relationships as well, there is the question of the relationships which you have with your family,

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

your wife or husband, and your children and your parents. But if you are,

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

constantly away working, then not seeing your kids, it's it's not easy. So I think it is worth just thinking, well, is this money worth it? And what am I paying it off against?

Jimmy:

And I, I think another couple of things as well is. it can, as we say, it can drive behaviors and drive results. So if you are ruthlessly going after bonuses and pay rises and promotions, apart from impacting relationships, it can sometimes mean you don't always do the right thing. You don't always get the right results. You don't always behave in the right way. Because you're just going after the money and we've all got examples of, incentive schemes or targets that drive the wrong behavior. But if you are just focused on the money, quite often you'll do the right, wrong thing.'cause you think that, the earning the money and getting the pay rise makes you right.

James:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

And I think it, it also, if you are very focused on money, it can limit your life choices. And so, you are only ever going to take the next big job, the next promotion, and the first thing you're looking at is the money for that job. As opposed to what do you really want to do with your life? What's your, what's your purpose in life? What's your focus? So I think there are definitely some significant downsides to just going after the money, aren't there?

James:

Well, and he can take the joy outta work as well. There's a fascinating Ted talk by a chap called. Dan Riley, which is I think I spent said his name right, but it's called Predictably Irrational. You should

Jimmy:

right.

James:

But he he shows how he just ran some experiments and what he did was he got some bios. If you dunno what bios are, that's what little Legos or stick figures. Then he put these bionicles out and he let people make bio bionicles and timed how long they would make'em until they got bored. And surprisingly, people quite like making bionicles.

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

plug away and they make these things and make these things. Then what he did was he started paying people to make them, and I dunno, which was paying them 50 p bionicle,

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

was. But what he discovered was the minute he stopped paying them stops making the bios. So the very fact that these people were getting paid for, it just crushed any enjoyment they were getting out of the work that they were doing. So it is, yeah, just

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

yeah, are you enjoying this? Is it really worth it?'cause if you're not enjoying it, you're only alive once. So they ends my ethical lesson

Jimmy:

And I, I think,

James:

lesson, I should

Jimmy:

well, I think also though, I mean money does it, does it really define your success? I mean, often people do think of success, status, importance, power in very financial terms. So superficially the answer is often yes. Actually, some of the other motivating factors that we've touched on, whether that's, what's your personal purpose? What's the work you're doing, what's the satisfaction, what's the enjoyment, what's the impact you're having on others? What's the impact of your bill gates on the, on the world? You know, they are all factors that can be more powerful in terms of motivation than, than just, money.

James:

Oh, absolutely. And I think a lot of commercial organizations miss a trick here because they think motivation's all about money, but it really isn't at all. So yeah, I think overplayed. So in summary, then. What do we think about this? I think for me, the point is money is important up to a certain point, but after that it really doesn't matter that much.

Jimmy:

we've shared some. Perspectives in terms of how you can go about increasing your earnings, but be thoughtful of which ones you decide to employ and conscious of the choices and their implications.

James:

Yeah, I don't get trapped in a position where it all becomes about the money because that is no fun at all.

Jimmy:

And back to my favorite film, James, which you will watch this weekend, Jerry McGuire.

James:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

It's the journey that Rod Tidwell goes on from at the start. It's all show me the money and that's all he's interested in. And then by the end, he's talking about the wan. He wants the love, the respect the community, and then the dollars flow.

James:

Ah, very good. So what does WAN stand for then?

Jimmy:

James, don't spoil a good story, mate. That's the ending. You watch the film and then you'll know.

James:

Alright, super. So yeah, watch the film. Don't listen to this podcast.

Jimmy:

Thanks

James:

Note, I'm gonna shut up.

Jimmy:

Thanks everyone.

James:

Speak to you later.

Speaker 3:

We cover a whole host of topics on this podcast from purpose to corporate jargon, but always focused on one thing, getting the job done well, easier said than done. So if you've got. Unhappy customers or employees, bosses or regulators breathing down your neck. If your backlogs are outta control and your costs are spiraling and that big IT transformation project that you've been promised, just keeps failing to deliver, we can help. If you need to improve your performance, your team's performance, or your organizations, get in touch at Jimmy at@jobdonewell.com orJames@jobdonewell.com.

People on this episode

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James Lawther

Co-host
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Jimmy Barber

Co-host