A Job Done Well - Making Work Better

Navigating a Midlife Career Crossroads, With Jess Spiers

• Jimmy Barber James Lawther and Jess Spiers • Season 2 • Episode 36

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This week, hosts James Lawther and Jimmy Barber delve into the topic of midlife career changes with expert coach Jess Spiers. 

They explore how to think about and approach a career crossroads - a point we all face at some point in our lives. Jess shares her own journey from digital content creation to career coaching, discussing the importance of clarity, confidence, and action in making intentional career choices. 

The conversation emphasises the importance of identifying values, super strengths, and transferable skills, while also addressing limiting beliefs and fears. 

Jess offers insights on how to develop a practical and actionable plan for a fulfilling career and life. The episode underscores the relevance of these strategies at various stages of one's career, not just at midlife. 

To find out more and get help with your career choice, Jess can be contacted at Twenty Twenty Coaching | mid-career coaching

Got a question - get in touch. Click here.

Speaker:

Hello, I'm James. Hi, I'm Jimmy and welcome to a Job Done Well, the podcast that helps you improve your performance enjoyment at work.

James:

Good afternoon. How are you doing?

Jimmy:

I'm doing well, James. How are you?

James:

I'm fabulous. Thank you very much. What are we talking about today then?

Jimmy:

today we have got a fascinating subject to talk about, which impacts everyone of us. We are talking about midlife career choices, and we are joined by a coach, an expert in these, this field, Jess Spiers. And Jess is going to talk to us about how you can think about and approach those big career crossroads that you all face at some points.

James:

This is midlife career crisis, not just a midlife crisis. Full stop.

Jimmy:

We can talk about midlife crisis.

James:

Yeah. We've had a couple of those.

Jimmy:

career aspects of it.

James:

So what have you been doing then? What have you been up to?

Jimmy:

Well, I am, a bit downcast this today because Nottingham Forests charge for Champions League football sort of more or less ended in a wimpy yesterday but it's an interesting one because forests actually have qualified for European football. So They've exceeded expectations Massively. But'cause you thought you could get a little bit more, you're almost disappointed by something that if somebody had told us six months ago, we would get, we would've been delighted. It was impossible. The human psyche, you know, let's say it is the hope that kills you anyhow. What, you been up, what have you been up

James:

You can, you can tell both Jess and I are riveted by that. By the tumbleweed.

Jimmy:

like

James:

to it. Listen to it.

Jimmy:

in football

James:

Nothing at all. No. Well you got a very lucky this week there is, for those of you who dunno, there's a very good jazz club in not team called Peggy Skylight, which if you're jazz van you should go to. And I bought tickets.

Jimmy:

same

James:

Well, exactly.

Jimmy:

never works for me

James:

I bought four tickets to go to this jazz club on Saturday nights. I was gonna take my sister-in-law, my brother-in-law, and. My brother-in-law, rather than going to the jazz club, pulled a sickie and you know, terribly ill lost half a stone apparently. So that's his way out of it. Yeah. But so then I had two free tickets for this jazz club and I thought, who the hell do I know who'd really like to go to the jazz club? Yeah. And fortunately for you, my neighbor put his hand up. Me. I didn't have to fail you.

Jimmy:

Sensible move. My phone didn't ring. I am happy with that. I, I admire your brother-in-law for the fact that he dislikes jazz as much as me'cause he was willing to lose all that weight and get ill to avoid it. Fair play to him.

James:

Right then. First of all, and Jess, how about you introduce yourself. That would be a good place to.

Jess:

Hello. Thanks for having me on today. Yeah. So I'm Jess Spiers. I noticed you said spears, Jimmy. Everybody says no, everyone does it. I used to do the same to my husband before I knew him properly and you have to pronounce it, but there we go. does it. Yeah, so I am a career coach and that is quite a recent thing for me relatively anyway, in the last few years. Just my background briefly. So I spent the first 20 years of my career in digital content. So creating podcasts and blogs and website content, writing, editing, that kind of thing. And I, I really enjoyed it. And, you know, I think I was good at it, but I always had the sense like, is there more? Like, I feel like I haven't quite achieved my potential, but I, I literally have no idea what else I'd be good at.'cause this is kind of all I've ever done. So I was lucky enough to have some coaching when I was, I think I was 39 at the time. And my coach said to me, I think you'd make a good coach. And I honestly don't think I ever would've come to that had she not said that. so it kind of planted a seed and I went off and I did lots of research and I thought, God, actually that sounds so. I think, you know, that would be a good match to what I'm good at and the things I'm interested in. So I started training as a coach a couple of years ago and a qualified last year. And what I found definitely for myself and with a lot of my clients is that around the age of 40 is such a natural point to kind of pause and reassess and think, you know, I've done 20 years of my career. what do I want out of the next 20? I've still got quite a lot of my career left. What am I gonna do with that? What changes do I need to make? So was sort of my, what I would call my 2020 shift. And now I help other people find what theirs is as well.

James:

So before we go into the sort of the whole age thing,'cause I have never had any coaching in my life. Jimmy's have loads of it and I have not had any. But what exactly is a coach? What does a coach do and how do they help people?

Jess:

that's a really great question because I think a lot of people aren't sure, and there's some confusion between coaching and mentoring. So in a nutshell, coaching is going from where you are now to where you want to be. I. It's very future focused and very goals focused. What sets it apart from counseling is that counseling will look back into the past, whereas coaching looks for the future. And the main difference between coaching and mentoring is that coaching is very non-directive. So you'll never hear, well, you usually wouldn't hear a coach saying this is my advice to you, or I think you should do this, or, when I was in a similar situation, this is what I did. That's, that would be more mentoring is that's a lot more directive. So if I was coaching you, James, I would

James:

Yeah.

Jess:

a belief that you have all the answers you need inside you. just need someone to ask you the right questions to access them.

James:

Okay. Yeah, Jimmy's been trying that for about 25 years.

Jimmy:

Yeah, I go into the more directive mentoring, as you

James:

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's not more, it's more like dictating rather than mentoring with Jimmy, but yeah. Oh.

Jimmy:

But no, I mean Jess, that's great explanation of the difference between coaching, mentoring, and counseling. I swear by it in terms of the opportunity to help you, as you say, you've got the answers internally somewhere. It's how do you work with people to help uncover those answers? And certainly, whether it's been parts of my life, my background or my career, I found coaching, mentoring, or counseling to be invaluable. And, apologies for getting your name wrong as well.

Jess:

It's all right. Everyone got.

Jimmy:

I agree, you were fantastic as a digital content person'cause you did a lot of work when we worked together to get FSS have I now dug myself out of the embarrassing hole that I was in.

Jess:

Yeah, you've more than dug yourself out. Thanks, Jimmy.

Jimmy:

Yours is a great story in terms of really highlighting the work that you do thinking about what you're doing and, and then making some choices and doing something completely different. I definitely, admire you for that.

James:

So why 40 then? So what's the magic number? What's your thinking there?

Jess:

So I think. You know, it's not just 40. You can need a career change or want to make career changes at any point, but I think there's definitely something quite special around 40. So you've done your first 20 years-ish of your career, got so much brilliant experience, like life experience and career experience behind you. And I think you know yourself so much better than at 20. we often fall into things straight after uni or you know, in our early twenties and. That can actually kind of set the direction for the rest of your career. It's easy to fall into something, sleep, walk through it. Not necessarily really unhappy, but not being intentional about what we're doing. So I think

James:

Yeah.

Jess:

when you get to 40 ish, I think that is often the time where you start to question things and think, actually, know, I'm not near retirement yet, but I've got like 20 odd years left. What. Do I need to do to make this more so I have more purpose. So it's more intentional and I think that can apply to anyone. I think it's particularly relevant for parents.'cause I think typically you might have kids in your thirties. so it varies. But you know, that's quite a common age to have kids and I think. Coming out the other side of that, in your forties, you've got a bit more time. As your kids get older, you've got a bit more energy, quite time poor. So you wanna make sure that what you are doing with your time is is worthwhile and something that actually makes you happy and, and fulfills you.

Jimmy:

Just to pick up though, Jess, I think the, interesting thing for, for me was that the. Kind of the process and the intentional thought and actually using coaching as one of the opportunities to go through that thought process. I mean, you're right, 40 is a big milestone and, and a, a great point in your life career to be thinking about that. But the same sort of process that you're gonna talk through in the same way of thinking, and the same use of coaching does apply to various other ages, doesn't it

Jess:

It definitely does and I've coached people, know, in their twenties all the way up to their sixties. So yeah, you are right. It, I think anyone would benefit from coaching as long as you are sort of committed to the process and you're gonna put stuff into it.

James:

Yeah. When I was 40, I I took voluntary redundancy. At exactly the same time as my wife gave birth to my youngest daughter. So I was I had the joy of signing on at the the dole office whilst my wife was not working. And I had a small child, so it was a bit stressful.

Jimmy:

And, and

James:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

say J Jess, that James is the clever one out of the two of us. And,

James:

It wasn't the bright thing I've done.

Jimmy:

proves you never used coaching, did you, James?

James:

No, I didn't. Yeah. Maybe I should have done, but you're right. And you, you get to that point where you think, crikey, 20 years of this, is that all it is? And yeah. You need to have a rethink. And I did. I had to rethink and it yeah. Helped me no end, but maybe that was a bit of a extreme way of going about it.

Jess:

When you look back, James, do you regret that decision?

James:

Oh, no, not at all. No, because, well,, I went self-employed for a little while and I worked worked for the local council. I remember sitting there talking to a guy who'd been working for Nottingham City Council and he'd been working there since he left university. So yeah, been there 20 odd years. And he said to me, it's really surprising. You know, I've been here 20 years, but when I look back, it didn't seem that long at all. And you've been sitting at the same desk for 20 years and to your point about intentionality probably is very, is still sitting there. Yeah. So I do think you need to take a grip of the situation and understand what you're doing and yeah, drive your own life.

Jimmy:

That's one of the key things for me is it's making intentional decisions, because often people, just, like I said, sleep, walk through things doesn't mean that it's wrong for him to sit in that desk for 20 years or the next 20 years, but be intentional about it.

Jess:

Just gonna say exactly that, Jimmy, doesn't mean that he's doing the wrong thing, but has he stopped to think about it and actively choose it? That's that's the thing.

James:

Yeah. And for me actually after going self-employed for a couple of years, I actually came to the conclusion that I preferred doing what I was doing as an employee and went back to doing it. But it was intentional So I think it's a very good point.

Jimmy:

Just, on the point of out 40, I, I absolutely agree in, in one sentence. For, for me, my career crossroads was, was actually in my early thirties. And I had worked for one company from leaving school till,. I was working in gambling and, and lots of people just stayed with the same company or stayed in the same industry and I just thought. I don't really wanna stay this, and, and if I don't go now, I am gonna be here for the rest of my life. And that thought of, doing the same sorts of things, the same companies, really making a positive contribution towards anyone's lives or society in general Is that it? I think the difference between what we're going to talk about today is I knew I wanted to get out, but I didn't know what I wanted to go and do. So mine was more of pushing away from something dynamic. I'm running away from it rather than I'm running two stuff. And that's why I think some of the stuff that you'll talk about can really help Jess.

James:

So let's just assume you were going to coach me or anybody else. What, how do you go about it? What are the, the sort of things you focus on, Jess?

Jess:

very good question. So for me, I think you can break it down into three simple steps, those are clarity, confidence, and action. So I would say that clarity. And that's what I would work with you first on is the biggie. That is the key that unlocks everything else. And like Jimmy just said about, I knew I wanted to leave that job in that industry, but I didn't know what I wanted. is exactly it. And I think at 40 ish, there are a lot of shoulds around, I think whether it's your own shoulds or shoulds of society. And it's about breaking free of those just thinking. You know, it's not necessarily about climbing the ladder to the next promotion or, whatever it is, just stripping everything back and figuring out what it is you actually want to do. That is, that is the key, and that is what I would probably take you on first, because I think when you know that it just opens all sorts of other doors that you didn't even know were there. So I look back at myself and I think about,, the journey I went on. I would look at job boards for other contenty jobs and I'd be like, oh, yeah.

James:

Yeah.

Jess:

could do that. Oh yeah, I could probably do that. Yeah. But I just wasn't excited. I was like, it was just all on you. And I think that is quite a common theme I've seen with my coachees and my friends and myself. You just, you know what you know, and you don't know else you could do until you start to explore it.

James:

Could you expand on something you said? So you said there were a lot of shoulds. What do you mean by that?

Jess:

I guess, I mean things like I should have a stable job'cause I've got a family to support or I should be at a higher level than I'm,

James:

Somebody should have told me that.

Jess:

yeah, yeah.

James:

Yeah.

Jess:

yeah, and I think, I think it can be internal shoulds. You know, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves, don't we? I, and I think it could also be things from outside. I think, you know, you've done a decent amount of your career by 40, haven't you? That there's potentially some sort of outside pressure about, and I guess this comes, into what, how you define success, but am I earning enough? Should I be earning more? And I just think it's, it's about stripping all that back, like I said, and just thinking, well, get rid of that for a minute. you get rid of all that, what is at the core of what you actually want?

James:

But it's about other people's expectations rather than your own. Is that the point you're making?

Jess:

think it can be both.

James:

Yeah.

Jess:

yeah, I think other people's expectations does play a part. Even like, you know, parents think or your partner or what you think your friends think, that kind of thing. I think that can come into it as well. So I think there's a lot of sort of honesty in this part of the process about just being. Yeah. Being honest with yourself about what, what you do want and what you don't want and what what ultimately is gonna make you happy.

Jimmy:

So how do you, how do you go about working out that clarity with people? What are there, are there ways of doing it or key questions you have to ask yourself? I.

Jess:

There are various different ways of doing it, and I think it, it all depends on the person and their situation and what works best for them. But I think. We often look at values at this point, and I know you've recently done an episode on values.

James:

Yeah.

Jess:

I have to say of all the things I do with my coachees values is the one. has the most impact. You know, people when you've gone through the exercise to figure out what their values are, they're like, oh yes, of course. That's why I'm really unhappy in my job now because, you know, whatever reason. And why when I look back on my favorite point of my career, that's why, because of my value of freedom or, you know, recognition or whatever it is. So I would say the values is, is a huge, huge part of this, this bit of the process.

Jimmy:

Now you said that, Jess, just back to my midlife example of changing from gambling into something else. It, it was, that was one of my values., Having a positive impact on people's lives and that was not what I was doing in that, that sort of industry and that sort of job. So, yeah, you can see the, the importance of values make, as we discussed in the previous episode, we did on values. They can make everything feel slightly off for you and you can't quite put, put your finger on it until you work through those. What else do you talk about or think about in terms of clarity? So there's values, what, what else?

Jess:

would say strengths is another one. And it's,

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Jess:

it's a squiggly careers term. This what I'm about to talk about, which is super strengths. So ve got things with good apps. But you can be good at something, not really enjoy it. Like I would say I'm quite organized and I, I can project manage, but I just don't like it. I don't enjoy it. I find it stressful and a bit boring, so that might be a strength, but it's not a super strength. So a super strength would be something that you are good at and you love doing. So I would say that is another part of the process that's really useful as well.

James:

I think the point about super strengths is a really good thing.'cause you then you're into, well, what do you value and what are you good at that you enjoy doing? Of a sudden you start to well, as you say, develop some clarity, don't you? So I think that's, yeah, I can see the power in that. Anything else that you'd add to the clarity question?

Jess:

think there's definitely something around defining your must haves and your non-negotiables.

James:

Yeah.

Jess:

What was important to me in my twenties and what's important to me now very different. So, know, one of the reasons that I left my corporate job to go all in on my

James:

Yeah.

Jess:

was a non-negotiable for me is I want to choose when and where I work. obviously a lot of organizations require you to be in the office a certain amount of days a week and work certain hours. And for me that's a non-negotiable, like that freedom and that flexibility for me, that is like, I, I have to have that. So that is another way of getting clarity on, know, what, what you are willing to compromise on and what you're not.

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James:

I think the key point is you won't get what you want if you don't know what you want.

Jess:

it. And I think that,

James:

Yeah. So,

Jess:

you know, as a part of the shoulds that we were talking about is you almost feel by 40 you should have it all figured out. So I wonder if there's like a little

James:

yeah.

Jess:

of shame around that for some people, you know, like, I shouldn't need help. I

James:

Okay.

Jess:

this. You know, I'm a grownup. I don't believe that at all. I think there's no harm in asking for a bit of help, and I think, I personally don't think you can get these answers on your own. I just don't think we are capable of that.

James:

Yeah.

Jess:

need that. That person there sort of hold you up a mirror just being impartial and asking you things that you would, you'd never ask yourself.

Jimmy:

The other thing that coaching does is it takes you in into a slightly more uncomfortable zone potentially. So if you are thinking what's my wishlist of things, or what's my values, or whatever it is. come up with a list, and I'm not saying it's wrong, but quite often a coach will just push you into that. You know, that extra 20% that acts as slightly outta your comfort zone and then that can unlock stuff that you just like, so you, you wouldn't have found yourself.

Jess:

Yeah,

Jimmy:

So that's the, the stuff around clarity. That's the first step. What's the second step did you say? Confidence.

Jess:

this is also so important because know that most people would say, at least sometimes they struggle with confidence. So the confidence piece is about building that foundation to kind of support you in whatever it is that's gonna come next. What I found quite fascinating, what's helped my confidence is transferable skills. By the time you're 40, you've got a lot of amazing experience under your belt. Don't underestimate how many transferable skills you will have. To take you into whatever comes next. So for me, like on paper, content and coaching are like completely different. But I have been so pleasantly surprised about how many transferable skills I am using from my content days now. So things like, I could build my own website because,, I've done that in the past. I'm relatively comfortable writing social media posts and marketing materials and that kind of thing, and I, I didn't realize that was gonna happen when I started out on this journey. I thought it was gonna be a complete start from scratch, go back to the beginning, but. don't think it really ever is, to be honest. I think there's always things, strengths and experience and skills that we can bring with us.

Jimmy:

You wouldn't necessarily say that digital content expert into coach is the logical step but you've not only done coaching, you're also, now highly qualified as a coach, aren't you? So you've got quite a lot of experience of testing out those skills, both in terms of the formal qualifications and the practical coaching.

Jess:

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. So I when I was deciding what coaching qualification to do. I decided to go for the highest possible one you could, you could do, which is like a master's level qualification. And because I know my values, I know that is my value of integrity. I, if I'm coaching people and it is a career change for me, I want to feel confident and comfortable that I'm offering people the best experience possible. And, I've got the most rigorous training possible.,

Jimmy:

But in doing that, taking it to the highest level, you really teased out those transferrable skills, which, it's something that we often underestimate, It's applicable to so many different, other roles, other industries, other organizations. So what else do you do to improve your confidence?

Jess:

So we will very often do some work on beliefs. So the first part would be identifying limiting beliefs that hold us back. And we all have them.

James:

Yeah.

Jess:

all have them. And it's about, well, first of all. Identifying that something is a belief, not a fact. So one of my limiting beliefs would be something around numbers. So I'm, I'm not good with numbers, but I know now that that's not a fact. It's a belief. And even just, I. Identifying it as a belief, not a fact. Takes the power out of it in a way. And it then it means it's something I can work on. So coaching is a lot about flipping limiting beliefs into more positive, empowering beliefs that are gonna serve you and, help you with whatever you wanna do next. Does that bring up anything for either of

James:

And

Jimmy:

Funny enough, I did work on this years ago. And I, what I discovered was that some of the limiting beliefs I have come from when I was very young, so I built them up so things like. classic one I have is I value independence. So I want a lot of autonomy in my work, and that's been a consistent theme. And I want independence and that's really important.. That comes from when I was younger from a very young age. Independence was something that was, rewarded, and people told me it was really good. The way that limits me is as I've got, got older, my ability to ask for help or accept help is really low. I never think about, do I really need help or I ask for help. But also I don't think about the impact that, my refusal to let anyone help what that has on them as well.

Jess:

Puts me in mind of a client I had a while back who had a limiting belief that, you know, he said, I, I'm not a good leader. And he was in a leadership position. He felt like he wasn't a good leader. So I asked him, is that a fact or is it a belief? And he was like, well, I suppose it's a belief. Yeah. and then. I asked him what evidence he had of that belief being true, and he sort of didn't really have much when he really thought about it. Like the, there wasn't really much he could come up with. I also asked him who gave you that belief? And when you ask people that often the answer is me. Like I gave myself that belief. And like you say, Jimmy is so often something from childhood that you hold onto as still being true, even as a grown adult. And you don't even realize you're doing it. And then, so yeah, this, this particular leader, he had given himself this belief and I asked him, well, are you always right? said, well, no, obviously not, no one is. And then we kind of flipped it and he found loads of examples of where he had been a good leader. Lots of different scenarios. And he really then began to see that he just created this. Myth basically in his own head. And he'd just been carrying it around quite a heavy burden around. When he really sort of picked it apart, found there wasn't really anything to it. In fact, you know, he described it as almost like a set of scales, like balancing scales, where he's like, I've got these negative beliefs about myself. But when I look at all the positive things I know I've done and the good feedback I've had, I can see they vastly outweigh. The negative things I think about myself. So that really empowered him actually in in his leadership position.

James:

But then presumably the very process of eliciting those limiting beliefs. You can then just start to turn those on their heads.

Jimmy:

Well, yeah, in, in my example, James, I'm, because I'm conscious I ask for help. I think about it, and my first reaction was wrong. Or actually, I'm struggling with something at the moment. I do need to ask for help. So yeah, just the awareness of something like that is, is very helpful. I've found.

Jess:

Yeah, I think that's amazing in the fact that you're so aware of it and you actively work to. Of combat it, you know, by, by doing the opposite, but actually that, that then does serve you. And it does, it does help you and the people around you.

James:

So we've talked about transferable skills and we've talked about limiting beliefs. Is there anything else that you think is worth highlighting when it comes down to confidence?

Jess:

I think often people are scared for one reason or another. I think there's some fear there

James:

Yeah.

Jess:

know, that can manifest itself in all different kind of ways, can't it? So it could be. of failure. And that would certainly be one of mine. Like fear of failure and sort of linked to perfectionism. Fear of, you know, if I delve into this, am I gonna have to rip everything up, chuck it all away, and start from scratch? And I would say to that, no, definitely not, not unless you want to anyway. Fear of financial, you know of money as well. And if I do want to make changes to my career, am I going to have to take a massive pay cut and go back to the beginning and retrain? So I think there's a lot around realizing what your specific fears and anxieties are, and then kind of addressing them and rewiring your mindset.

James:

And how do you get people to face into those fears? What, how do you do that?

Jess:

It depends on the person, depends what I know will work for them. You know, how much challenge I think that they would respond well to, or does it need to be a bit more gentle or whatever it is. I think it's about. Asking lots of questions and kind of peeling the layers back and encouraging people when they've given an answer to sort of go the next step deeper. Like peel back another layer. Okay, so what does that mean? Or what's the impact of that? And if you do that or later, you will come to what that fear actually is and then you can start to explore a little bit. And, see that yes, it is valid not to like dismiss it or chuck it out or anything like that, but now you know what the specific fear is, you can then start to sort of deal with it. And there's, there's, yeah, different things we can do, but I, I guess it would depend the person

Jimmy:

ultimately fear paralyze people in terms of, making decisions and moving forward with their life. But one of the things I always think is interesting is if you've done. The goals, the clarity, what you're aiming for, and then you balance that up against the fear they have. When you get that clarity and that desire, back to my point about push versus pull, if you've got some pull from something that you want to go and do, that also can help overcome the fears because in order to do X I'm gonna have to get over this fear.

Jess:

Yeah, that's exactly it. And I read something the other day which said. Confidence doesn't come before making a decision. It comes afterwards. So if you need to make a decision and trust that, the confidence will follow, because if you wait around for the confidence to come, you might never do anything.

James:

In my experience it's never quite as bad as you think it's going to be.

Jess:

Yep, agree.

James:

So there you go. So we've got clarity and confidence. What's the next bit then?

Jess:

So the final step would be action, Something I hear people say that they're not sure about having coaching is that they think they'd have a great time doing it and they would learn a lot, but they would worry that it would all be lovely in the moment, but that they wouldn't have anything to take with them. So the plan will always be. Realistic, and it will always be a manageable, small steps. It's got to be something that the person is like completely comfortable with doing and actually they're excited about doing. You know, it's got to be something they really want to do. It would be realistic. It won't be, vague visions or sort of intangible approaches. It's basically your, strategy and plan to take with you into the future.

James:

But the key point here is these actions are things that I, if I was having the coaching, I have agreed to myself. It's not like some stupid stretch goal that's been passed down from on high. It's something that I commit to myself.

Jess:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

And I think one of the things you said Jess, which resonates with me, is stuff that you really want to do.'cause I think sometimes, you're writing out a plan and you know full well you're not gonna do the actions that you're writing down. You've got no intention, no interest, no way, but you, you're doing it'cause you're going through the motions. So I think particularly on this, this is about your plan. It's not about anyone else's. So it is really important to have stuff that you. Know that you're gonna do doesn't mean that it is easy or that it's comfortable doing it, but you still, you still have to look yourself in the the eye and say, am I gonna really do these things or not?

Jess:

Yeah, absolutely. And it's not a box ticking exercise that someone's made you do. This is. Stuff that you really want to do for yourself to have a happier and more fulfilled life.'cause it is about life, not just career. You know, our careers are a massive part of our lives, but you know, we're all humans. There's so much more to us than our job isn't there. So, you know, there's, I don't think I've ever coached anyone where they've not made changes to their lives as well as their career as a result of the coaching.

James:

Fascinating. So we've talked about this at age 40, but presumably this applies just as much at any other sort of crossroads time in your life.

Jess:

I think so. Like Jimmy said, you know, for him it was his early thirties, people in their fifties, people coming up to retirement and they wanna design an intentional retirement. It can happen at any point really. I find the 40 point is a really, like a magical time where there's just so much potential to make changes to your life to make it more intentional and just to, to make you happier basically, at the end of the day.'cause I think that's all we want, isn't it really?

James:

Yeah, I think there's an opportunity for you to branch out and make millions coaching people who are about 55 would be my personal take on it. But yeah.

Jimmy:

I think that's an interesting point, James.'cause I'm gonna raise the same thing and it might be because of the age that James and I are, and therefore a lot of the people we know are similar ages. But, I think the working world is changing quite a lot. So people now in their fifties have. Often a lot more freedom and there's a lot more choice and there's a lot more different things that you can do. It's a lot easier to set up your own business. It's a lot easier to go off and, help other organizations. and it's a lot easier to get educated and to change your work. So I, I think there are a lot of people in their fifties that are making those similar career choices. But I think the interesting thing is. It happened to me in my thirties and my fifties. James has done his forties and his fifties. You've done your forties. But the same process of getting clarity around things, having the confidence to act, and then having a clear action plan. I think that process that you've described is equally applicable, whether you're thinking about in your twenties, thirties, or forties, fifties, whatever.

Jess:

Yeah, definitely agree.

James:

Well, normally at this point I think we should we should have a summary, but I think Jimmy's taking the win from my sales yet again.

Jimmy:

I know you do like to finish off with Your summary of the of what you've just heard and I've just,

James:

a little bit clarity. I do know.

Jimmy:

mate. Stole

James:

Yeah. Nevermind. So thank you very much for talking to Jess. If anybody wants to contact you or talk to you, how should they go about doing that?

Jess:

Best way would probably be to visit my website, which is www.twentytwentycoaching.co.uk 2020. Coaching is spelled out, all one word. probably the best way

James:

We will put a link in the website as well if anybody's interested. Yeah. Or presumably contact you via LinkedIn, which is a bit ubiquitous,

Jess:

I'm on LinkedIn. Jess Fires. S-P-I-E-R-S often misspelled.

James:

not spears.

Jess:

Yeah.

James:

Yeah. Or mispronounced. Yeah.

Jimmy:

have to bring that up. Didn't you change? You just couldn't let it lie to make me feel bad again.

James:

still smarting about the summary.

Jimmy:

Yeah. But no, thank you Jess for for, for joining us. Hopefully people have found that really useful and say it's, we all face career crossroads at various times. And personally, I'd really recommending getting some coaching to help you through that process. So, you know, have a look at Jess's website. Check it out.

James:

Thank you very much.

Jimmy:

Alright, thanks Jess.

Jess:

Thanks guys.

Jimmy:

Thanks everyone

James:

Cheers.

Speaker 3:

We cover a whole host of topics on this podcast from purpose to corporate jargon, but always focused on one thing, getting the job done well, easier said than done. So if you've got. Unhappy customers or employees, bosses or regulators breathing down your neck. If your backlogs are outta control and your costs are spiraling and that big IT transformation project that you've been promised, just keeps failing to deliver, we can help. If you need to improve your performance, your team's performance, or your organizations, get in touch at Jimmy at@jobdonewell.com orJames@jobdonewell.com.

People on this episode

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James Lawther

Co-host
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Jimmy Barber

Co-host