A Job Done Well - Making Work Better

Mastering the Art of Networking: Tips and Strategies

• Jimmy Barber, James Lawther and Andy Warren • Season 2 • Episode 40

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In this episode, hosts James Lawther and Jimmy Barber discuss the importance of networking with special guest Andy Warren - the best-connected person we know! They talk about the nuances of networking, what makes it effective, and how to overcome common barriers. Andy shares invaluable insights, including key strategies such as the significance of personal branding, overcoming the fear of rejection, and the 80/20 rule in listening versus speaking. 

Whether you're just starting or looking to refine your networking skills, this episode offers practical advice to enhance your professional and social connections.

They also face the challenges of playing Eamonn Andrews (look him up if you're under 40!) at a friend's milestone birthday, and that teenagers think they can drive to the moon and back in a Fiat 500. 



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Speaker 2:

Hello, I'm James. Hi, I'm Jimmy and welcome to a Job Done Well, the podcast that helps you improve your performance enjoyment at work.

James:

Good afternoon. How you doing?

Jimmy:

Good afternoon, James. I'm doing well. How are you?

James:

I'm doing fabulously. Thank you very

Jimmy:

You can say fa, you can say fabulous this week'cause it's nice and sunny

James:

It is. It's beautiful. Nice and warm. I'm sitting here in my short. There's a nice little mental image for you. So what we're doing today.

Jimmy:

Today we have got a special guest with us. A good friend of ours, Andy Warren, who is going to talk to us about the subject to networking the importance of it, what you can get done with it, and how you go about doing it. So it's one of those jobs that we all love to hate, isn't it?

James:

Some of us more than others.

Jimmy:

As, as we will no doubt. Find out as we get into this Anyhow, what have you been up to apart from enjoying the weather?

James:

Well in my infinite wisdom, I volunteered to help a friend of mine whose 70th birthdays, who's coming up and he's doing a, this is Your Life sketch at his birthday party, and I'm gonna be what's his name? Is it Amy Andrews?

Jimmy:

Amen. Yeah, you'll Beon Andrews.

James:

I am gonna be Amon Andrews for the evening. So I've been helping and prepare that the in best bit of which is I've been trolling YouTube looking at 1980s and 1990s adverts. Pepper army. It's a bit of an animal. That's what I can say to you. Anyway, moving on very swiftly. What have you been up to?

Jimmy:

I have been getting to grips with the fact that my 18-year-old daughter has gone on holiday to Cornwall and she's driving her own car down there, and it's like 330 miles in a fear 500. There is no way on earth that I would ever do it, but she's done it. And just to add a cherry on top of that story and a she's insured with ticker.

Andy:

Ah. Bless her. Bless her. Fantastic. We'll eat tonight. We have profit. We have a safe driver on the books.

Jimmy:

Oh yeah. Yeah. You haven't seen her drive. When you check out her stats, you might be saying something different. Anyhow. Welcome Andy. Do you wanna tell us a bit about yourself.

Andy:

Yeah, sure. Thanks Jamie. Thanks, Jimmy. Thanks for the invite. Big fan of the, the podcast. I've listened to most, most of them. It's my most favorite past I whilst sitting on the M 25 listening to a job done well.

James:

Bought out your mind,

Andy:

yeah, no, I don't know this.

James:

scoop your eyeballs out. Is that what it is? Yeah.

Andy:

Don't be so harsh. Not when I'm driving. Yeah, no, seriously guys. Thanks for, for the invite to talk about one of my favorite subjects. But yeah, a wee bit about me. So while I've certainly known you guys for a good 10, 15 years, having worked together in. One of the big insurance companies I guess I'm a bit, little bit of a late starting entrepreneur from I'd like to say leaving college, but getting kicked outta college. I've done the the big company thing, I worked with Microsoft Disney or Xerox Orca Cola to name a few, RSA, being my last kind of big one. But then leaving a, a job that I loved and a, a company that I, I loved equally was kind of forced into a consultancy role. And if it were not for the power of, of networking, I'd have probably. Been buying an allotment or something because I think my network of people just meant when I decided to, to leave the, the big corporate world for the first five years, and were only five and a half years in the phone, didn't stop ringing with people who just kind of knew me by reputation. Banging on the door, but the, say, the last four or five years I've really been working with the big private equity houses working on strategies and helping them on a lot of supply chain stuff, which is the area where I, I guess I'm a more of an expert in my, kind of my business world predominantly in insurance So when a big private equity company wants to buy a chain of, let's say, body shops to, grow, consolidate, make it international, I'm the go-to guy. So I've been very, very busy working on the client side, so the big insurers but also with the private equity guy. So actually it's the worst retirement in history. But I love it and I'm, I'm pleased to say well, I think, and. Clearly by the amount of offers I get, other people think I'm pretty good at it too. So that's

Jimmy:

Well, well, thank you for coming on to today, Andy. And one of the reasons why. We asked you on is you are absolutely the best connected person that either of us know.

Andy:

Thank you.

Jimmy:

also I think our views on networking between the three of us are really contrasting. So you'll have James who at one end of the spectrum, who views networking is a chore. Something eight's doing me in the middle, it's a task, but I've got to do it. And you at the other end where it's more of a way of life for you. So you're gonna share some of those, that expertise, whilst James and I share some of our. Slightly more prosec views on, on networking. So James, what is networking? You'll always have a definition for us.

James:

looked it up. I've got a definition and I've got an interesting fact. So the definition. It networking is the action or process of interacting with others to exchange information and develop professional or social contacts. yeah. More interesting is the earliest known use of the noun networking is in the 1940s. So you go, it's a relatively you new thing. You were probably about when that started, weren't you Andy, in the 1940s?

Andy:

off. Not far off.

James:

Yeah.

Andy:

Yeah. I remember it better than the war networking.

Jimmy:

that's why he is got lots of, lots of practice, eh.

Andy:

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I knew it would come in handy one day.

Jimmy:

Just to build on it. That process of meeting people or contacts to get something done, for me, networking is it is connecting with other people for a purpose. And that purpose might be to get the job done. It might be to find work, it might be to get help with stuff. It might be to get advice. There's always a purpose to that connection.

Andy:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

Andy, how do you think about the definition of networking?

Andy:

You know, I guess, I'm glad you've, you've just said networking because I've done a few podcasts about it. Jimmy Business networking. I mean, there may be a different, I suppose, sort of end game. Dating is, is networking when you go to school, you

James:

Yeah, I was never very good at that either.

Andy:

going to school or

James:

I was but I had to go to school.

Andy:

What it. Been for me or the kind of resultant of what it's been for me. I stopped having interviews and that is purely'cause of networking and that

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

so many questions that I knew people now. It didn't give my network, didn't give me the job. And that resonates with me and my kids. Both of them have got jobs in businesses where I opened a door. What I didn't do is get'em the job in the same way as none of my networks have got me the sales or the contacts or whatever it really is. Wheel greaser, an icebreaker I think if you go into the, the networking, a networking event, and there are such things as networking events, you just go along and you press flesh. And how do you do? I'm Jimmy, I'm James, I'm Maddy, whatever. And promote yourself. Promote your brand, but. Every day, every conversation is a, you know, today I'll probably find out, I mean, I know you guys really, really well. I've been worked with you for 10 years or so, but I'll find out something I didn't know about you, Jimmy, or something I didn't know about you, James. You are my kind of repeat customer network that I'll, I know I can come to you for anything that I know falls into your space. So for me it's just a constant way of, of staying in touch finding out what people do This may surprise some people, but for me it's, it's about helping other people more than myself I mean sometimes it's a pain. Don't get me wrong. Once in a while you'd think, well, that was a waste of time. But not every shot's a goal in networking. I'll meet 20 people at a networking event and I guarantee I'll come out of there having met. A dozen, 15 people that I've never, ever met before that I will feel completely comfortable emailing or making a call or asking them to meet because I've offered them help or I'm interested in what they've got

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

And let's face it, human nature kicks in here, Jimmy, and people are talking about themselves. If you fly in there and you are, you know, first thing you do is I've got this to sell, I'm promoting that, I'm pushing that, or whatever. People switch off, you'll never hear from

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

again. But that's what it is for me. A chance to connect with people by offering them help and in return, getting a wee bit of reciprocation and then being able to help you.

Jimmy:

Now just, just on that point of about being people like to talk about themselves and being in interested in them there, I, I heard a great quote about networking recently, which was be interested, not interesting. So, get that balance between listening to people and finding out about people rather than I'm on broadcast mode to talk about myself.

James:

Yeah, I think you make a really interesting point. It's about listening to people rather than your own agenda out. I mean, I have to admit I hate it because I hate doing it. Do it really, really badly, but for me, I always feel rather, oh, I feel a bit dirty doing it. I'll be honest with you.'cause I always feel I'm doing these two for an outcome. It's almost like I'm using people and and that's my mental model of it. And because of that's my mental model. I don't like doing it'cause I don't like doing it. I'm not very good at it. But it just it's not helpful to go into it with that

Jimmy:

But James if you talk to Andy, which we both have and we've experienced what he gets done with networking. There's a bit of getting work, there's a bit of getting the job done at work, and then there's everything from holidays to cars to God knows what else that, you're able to, to have an influence on through your networks. Do you see, James, do you see the importance of networking?

James:

Oh, absolutely. And so if you think about jobs

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

one of the six large organizations that I've worked for, a third of them

Jimmy:

Yeah,

James:

networking.

Jimmy:

Every piece of work I've had in the last 10 years has been through networking. It's, it's never been through going out and applying for jobs or finding jobs. It's been through people that, know me.

Andy:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

So I think, we're all agreed on the importance of networking, but if it is an important task to, either get the job done or further your career in your life or whatever, what do you see the barriers to networking are? I mean, James, you touched on one in terms of mindset, but Andy, what's your view?

Andy:

Well, I suppose the first one, Jimmy, is just the fear,, Fear of re

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

and. Whilst I've, years and years of experience of, of networking. There's still a wee bit of show night nerves when you've targeted somebody to get to. Now I'm targeting people. up in the C-suite level. I mean, I'll talk to everybody, but if I'm, if I'm actually networking, then I'll be net trying to network for a cause for a purpose and normally to a person in an organization. And that could be through a multiple mediums, like, directly phone calls or via an intro for another person or via LinkedIn or going to an event, keynote speaker, all that kind of stuff. But it's the fear of rejection. And. I get rejected all the time. I remember at one of our first meetings, Jimmy I was coming to work for you moving across in an organization, and I only heard about you from reputation that you were a bit kind of no nonsense. You were an okay guy, but you were just sort of focused on it and. It was immediately at, at ease with you.'cause we spoke for 40 minutes about football. And then kind of got into work. I mean, that really resonated with me. I'm exactly the same. And, you know, if I'm going to A-A-A-C-E-O of a private equity house, I absolutely don't fly in there and, give them my kind of ratio of multiples of the last interest success that I had on a payout. I would know something about them. So the barriers I think people create them themselves, so they're afraid for no particular

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

but then also they're getting it wrong because they are thinking that network is a sales pitch a door opener to, to push something. If you go into it like that, with that mindset, I. Then you're gonna fail. I

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

you're gonna fail, or you are just gonna be so less successful than somebody goes in there, finds common ground, et cetera, et cetera. So if you approach it from a a slightly less businessy point of view, you, you just wanna find out a hook about that person. What are they into, what will, break the ice for you

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

to take a call from you next up. So I think fear and fear of rejection is probably the biggest barrier for, for everybody, and that doesn't go away.

Jimmy:

I think another one I was as you, right, You say Andy. In my career I was always very results focused and I think early in my career I couldn't see, I. The, the point in networking, it didn't have the immediacy of, I don't know, I'm running a sales team, I've gotta get results today. Why am I networking? A, it can be a long-term investment that sometimes you don't even get anything back. It doesn't pay off. And so the, the results focused nature of me for a long while didn't see why would I spend time with people outside of my team, outside of my organization. Well, I just didn't have a clear purpose in getting my results today. What else James do you think gets in the way of networking? Well, I think fear is the key Yeah,

James:

it? I suppose it is. I think it's interesting, right? It's something that you do. It's something that I will do quite happily.

Jimmy:

yeah.

James:

When I don't have a purpose for doing it, if that makes sense, whereas if I'm trying to do it because I want to make a sale or I want to meet such and such a person. Then I'll just get tied up in knots. And I think you round it's fear of rejection, but you then get tied up in knots and then you focus on what you're not trying to do too well and do you what I mean? It all go down, goes downhill. Whereas if you're going to a social event or something like that and it's just chatting to people, then more than happy to do that. So it is almost that why am I trying to do this? And that gets in the way for me.

Andy:

I've been so lucky and so fortunate in my career to have networked and met and and benefited from, sponsors in all the companies that I've worked with, but the key to me has been staying in touch with them. You know, even now I've got half a dozen like CEOs from banks and insurance that are still call up. I'll ask about their grandchildren, how their rugby teams doing. Just to keep those networks alive because these guys are still super, super valuable. And you know, as I say, I spend more of my life than doing. then I've done anything, you know, even being a, being a, a dad or, or anything, or a

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

anything like that, you know, so I, you know, pleased to call you two friends. I'd say 90% of my friends are, are all through my lifetime of work,'cause it's been so long doing it and I love it and I enjoy it too, which helps.

Jimmy:

There's a couple of bits just to pick on there. Andy One is, keeping in touch with people.'cause another thing that I've experienced is. It's really difficult and quite false when you wait till you need something and then you get in touch with people that you haven't talked to for years. I won't, well I won't do it I try and keep in touch with people.'cause I like, I like them. I like keeping in touch with them. I think it's good to keep your network, healthy. But if I haven't talked to somebody for, say, 10, 15 years. Then I think I want something from them. They could help me with something. I won't just ring them up outta the blue. I, I just can't, can't do that. So,

James:

Well, and that's interesting. I mean, we've all had experience of that. People

Jimmy:

yeah.

James:

us out of the blue,

Andy:

Of course.

James:

it's blatantly obviously just flipping, wants something,

Speaker 3:

As well as recording this podcast, we help individuals, teams, and entire organizations achieve outstanding results.

Speaker 4:

If you'd like to find out more about how we can help you, please get in touch email, either jimmy@ajodowell.com or James at ajo dunwell com.

Andy:

Back to the fear thing, because for, for people just starting off

Jimmy:

I.

Andy:

career and I've, you know, two, two sons of, A foot or two on the, on the kind of ladder of corporate and business and, easy to, to mentor them. Whether they listen or not, I don't know, but they,, they seem to want my advice, but it, it really is. Look, not every shot you take gonna be a, you know, a goal. Not every, Person you chat to in the bar is gonna wanna give you their number. So rejection's a part of life,

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

you approach it. You can, you can de-risk it by, your attitude, by your brand, by being a nice person.

Jimmy:

One of the things that helped me change my attitude towards networking because I, like I say, I saw it as a task. It doesn't help me get my results today, so why am I bothering to do that? And then I realized actually it was important to your career and all the rest of it, and I should do more of it. But one of the things I struggled with. There is a value exchange between people. So when you have that meeting and, and I used to think, well, what value are you getting out of me? Well, actually the reality is if you go and ask somebody for help, the value that's in it for them is they get the opportunity to help someone. And in the gen in general, humans are wired to want to help people. So actually they feel good if you are reaching out to'em and saying, can you gimme some help on that? You get the benefit of some advice or an opportunity or whatever it is, the thing that's in it for them, the value exchange for them is that they can feel good about themselves. So I think seeing that value exchange helped me think actually, you know, I'm not just an inconvenience to you,

Andy:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

You're gonna get something out of it. And the other thing I was just gonna mention, just back to your point James, I'm, I'm actually opposite of you as in. You are saying that when you are networking without a purpose, just socially Yeah. That's better for you personally. I'd like to have a purpose as to why I'm networking, and so I find it easier. The three of us show the different attitudes you've gotta find. You almost find your path and what you are comfortable with. I'm comfortable networking where I know the purpose in of the conversation, whether it's help, whether it's advice, whether it's introductions, whatever it is, versus that gets in my way. So I think it is a bit of a personal thing, isn't it really?

Andy:

Totally. Yeah. And the other, I think the other barriers or things that people should keep an eye on Jimmy is, as I say, I think that the fear thing comes naturally, but that keeps you sharp. I mean,

Jimmy:

Yes.

Andy:

nobody's ever moaned about a short introduction. Keep it succinct see James, I think the difference between, Jimmy and you and I was the, the fact that you always sorting out the business. You were sorting out the processes, answering the phones, all that kind of stuff, where my entire. Work life has been facing outward, so I have more of a need for it naturally. Because I was a salesy person. I was the guy cutting the deals for the company. So all of my interactions were external. But for you and for people who are perhaps not outwardly facing in an organization, you will one day need another job, need to find somebody to employ and that's where your network comes in handy. I think. So it, you know, different for different people

Jimmy:

You've got somebody here who lives by it and loves it. Somebody here who it, it has to have a purpose and a reason for it, and a result and an outcome, and somebody who doesn't, I. Enjoy doing it. But we all agreed that it is really important. We've touched on some of the things that can really help, but Andy, as our networking guru, if you had to narrow down all of those years of experience, what would be your top three tips to people in terms of excelling at, at working?

Andy:

Well, I'm glad you say top three because the, the last two podcasts I said, people said, what's the one thing and that's the easiest question

Jimmy:

I'm probably gonna live to regret giving you three. I know that, but go on.

Andy:

But, but all I can say is when they say, you know, what's the one thing, the, the one thing is there is no one thing. I wish there were, but, but, so I'd say my,

Jimmy:

It's like, it's like when you were a little kid and somebody said to you, you can have three wishes. And you always used to say, my third wish is

Andy:

Yeah,

Jimmy:

I want three more wishes.

Speaker 5:

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Speaker 6:

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Speaker 5:

And equally, if you've got any feedback on how we can improve the podcast subjects you'd like us to cover or questions we can help you with, please do get in touch. Email Jimmy at ajo. Done well.com or James as a job done well.com.

Andy:

My three main tips would be your brand. So be authentic, be genuine. People can spot, spot a fake, and they may know you've come to them because the end game will be you are selling something, you provide a service or whatever, or you just need a bit of their time. But as you said, Jimmy, people

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

help. So that's, that's number one. Number two is. that fear of rejection. And don't be, don't be afraid of fear. It'll keep you sharp. It'll keep you, caffeine buzzing. But don't beat yourself up about a well polished kind of opening statement. You know, work on that elevator pitch. You might have a minute, two minutes with that person, because they're so kind of busy. You may be lucky, you make you get, you get an age, but. Not every shot's a goal. Practice your opening dialogue and, and before you go along, prepare. So have a hook. You might just have a chance meeting.? And then you've gotta kind of think on your feet. But if you are going to network in an environment room full of bank managers or jewelry shop owners or something like that. Find the common ground, target the people that you wanna speak to and set yourself a goal. So even now, you know, in my ripe old age, I'll set a goal of 10 contacts, people that I've not spoken to before, five of which I can I. I have a reason to follow up with whether they come to me or I go to them and one or two of those people will turn into a really meaningful relationship on contact one. But my measurement, Jimmy, is that every single one of those people that I've contacted, I will keep alive. I mean my LinkedIn inbox, he's huge and I

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

respond. He's, I mean, I'm worse than Elon Musk is on Twitter. I will always, because people have taken the, the trouble

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

me and I think the third one is the,

Jimmy:

Sorry, sorry. One quick small question on if you've got, if you're going to a networking event or you, you're gonna reach out to people or you've got a a, a meeting with a CEO or something coming up, how do you prepare?

Andy:

So what I'll tend to do, Jimmy, is, I know what my end goal is. It's, and it

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

conversation, but a wee bit of research. So I look, I do, I do a three and a one. So I look for three things about them generally. So that might be you know, are they a family person, do they have any social media? Most people are into a sport or a past, some it might be country music or Morris dancing or, you know, hardcore mill wall or, or cooking or wine or whatever. But find that common ground because once you've kind of hit it, um,

James:

once said to me, you should. Everything in life once except Morris dancing and incest. Just a thought for you.

Andy:

really

Jimmy:

there's so, so many jokes, James, but none of them could we have in the podcast.

James:

I do think you have to be very careful. So I went into a Chinese restaurant I have been going to this restaurant for 20 odd years. I probably go two or three times a year. I'm What you would regard, I would imagine, as a good customer. The owner came up to me the other day, I was in there with my daughters and he came up and he said, oh, hello, how are you? How are your sons? And you know, it was, yeah, you just have to be

Jimmy:

You've gotta be co you've gotta be confident in your facts. But I think the, the point about finding common ground quite quickly, even, even if you haven't researched, I mean, I was having a conversation with somebody who I've met for the first time earlier this week, and she was just telling me her story and she had just recently moved to Nottingham from Norfolk. My grandparents and my dad were from Norfolk. So all of a sudden you found some common ground and you start talking about that common ground. There's immediately a connection there. So even through the conversation, whether it's kinda interest workplaces, where they've lived, you can generally find a connection, can't you?

Andy:

is so easy. It is so easy. my third point, is, the 80 20. Listen, listen, 80 talk 20. And that, I, I think that's probably the, the golden rule after. Don't be afraid the worst that's gonna happen is to say. Thanks for that, but that's really not my cup of tea.

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Andy:

Go find somebody else, you know, move on to the next speed date if you like. So, yeah, but they're, they're the three kind of big headers I mean, it's, it's such a big subject

Jimmy:

is.

Andy:

and for different people. Manage your time well as well, and. your platforms. Pick the events that you go to, to, pick the way that you do it and you'll, boil it down to a successful methodology after a very, very short space of time. Something that works for you.'cause it might not work for me.

Jimmy:

Three great bits of advice, Andy, but I think the one I'd add is, or echo is that last one, which is you've got to find ways of doing this that work for you personally. I.

Andy:

Yeah,

Jimmy:

think we're all, we're all, we're all individuals. We all have different likes, dislikes, anxieties, whatever. And as we've discussed today, we all think it's important. We all have very different attitudes towards how we look at it, how we do it, and how we feel about it. So I think getting your mindset around it. And then so the thing that unlocked it for me was that that value proposition where we're each gonna get something out of that. So your point, Andy, which is mutuality, we're both gonna come away from this interaction with something out of it, So focusing on mindset I think helped me, but. Figuring out the mindset that that suits you, James, even though it's not something you love doing though. Have you got any other hints and tips to add?

James:

I think for me, Andy's point about mutuality is all important because, you know, oh, a sad thing, isn't it? Whatever, is whoever you meet on the way up, you can just as easily meet on the way down as well.

Andy:

Yeah.

James:

Yeah, so throughout your career, it's about treating people decently.'cause if you treat people decently, they will treat you decently in return would be the one thing. And the other thing is if you're like me and you really hate it you can't be good at everything. Find somebody who is good at it and then work with them

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

piece advice.

Andy:

Make make the intro. I think what we didn't touch on is absolutely what it isn't. And I don't think it's, look, it's, it is a tool in a toolkit. You've gotta be up for it. You've gotta be, have a degree of confidence. You've got to research, your targets if you like. And you are, you gotta know your business because. You've got one chance. It doesn't really matter if your PowerPoint doesn't go that well or you don't answer their questions at the next business meeting, or you've got queries at what they're offering or whatever. If if you can't get across to somebody that. You're a decent person, that it's worth their while giving you a little bit of time then, and then, you know, a week or so after, that's why for the last sort of five or six years, my biggest successes have, come from people that I've got a relationship with. So you've got, you know, you've gotta be open, you've gotta invest a bit of time in it. It's not just a nine to five thing. Networking.

Jimmy:

So just to summarize where we've got to, we've talked about what we think networking is the importance of it in terms of getting stuff done at work. Getting jobs, getting stuff done in life. And then we've shared some of our, things that get in the way of it. We talked about fear, we talked about the task, and then we've shared some of the top tips. And the top tips, Randy, were work on your personal brand, be authentic. Overcome the, fear factor of, of it and adopt the 80 20 rule in terms of listening versus speaking. So be interested, not interesting. And, and then we shared some of our tips, James, which was about mutuality and finds your way of doing it, whether you like it or not. It's an I.

James:

find somebody to work with who's good.

Jimmy:

In your answer, find someone else who can do it.

James:

well, but you can't all be good at everything. Don't beat yourself up about it.

Andy:

But, and when you, when you started off on your your kind of route of of being a consultant, which you're really good at you could be the greatest consultant in the world, but even you've got any customers,'cause you've not networked, then, what's the point? You're a footballer without a football team. So it is useful. And as I say, I mean the proof in the pudding, I mean, I wish I was half as bright as you, but the proof in my pudding was the fact that my last, well, probably 30 assignments since being in consultancy I've not had one request for a CV or a an interview. It's just been purely reputation. So, and

Jimmy:

You go.

Andy:

for that because I don't interview particularly well so it's just a lot easier to kind of work from reputation and the fact that people actually quite like me. So I'm quite proud. I'm quite proud of that.

Jimmy:

So thank you Andy and James. Anything else to add?

James:

No, I think I'm good. Thank you very much.

Andy:

you.

Jimmy:

well hopefully you've found this episode useful and are inspired to take some of our Andy's networking tips. If you wanna find out any more be in touch with with us at jimmy@jobdonewell.com or james@jobdonewell.com. Thanks everyone.

James:

Thank you very much,

Jimmy:

Thanks Andy.

Andy:

Great to see

Jimmy:

Cheers. Now

James:

Cheers now.

People on this episode

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James Lawther

Co-host
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Jimmy Barber

Co-host
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Andy Warren

Guest