A Job Done Well - Making Work Better

How to Inspire Your Team

• Jimmy Barber and James Lawther • Season 3 • Episode 4

Share episode

Everyone wants to inspire people - it's an ambition, a badge of honour, but is it that easy? Hosts James Lawther and Jimmy Barber talk about their experience of how they've been inspired by their managers (rarely) or demotivated by them (often), and their experience of trying to inspire others (ditto). 

Despite this, they identify some things anyone can do to inspire others—as ever, James reverts to system-related changes, while Jimmy focuses on the people side. But there are some things they agree on that could have a significant impact.

Plus, you can hear about the Nottingham tradition for Cock on a Stick at the Goose Fair, a hotel recommendation for your next holiday and where the podcast features in a global list of the best podcasts for Managers.

Check out this week's episode for insights and tips on how you can improve your performance and enjoyment of work.

Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us: Amazon.co.uk: Pink, Daniel H.: 9781847677693: Books

Experience lovely Santorini | Radisson Blu Zaffron Resort, Santorini

Best 100 Podcasts for Managers https://www.millionpodcasts.com/managers-podcasts/

Got a question - get in touch. Click here.

Speaker 3:

Hello, I'm James. Hi, I'm Jimmy and welcome to a Job Done Well, the podcast that helps you improve your performance enjoyment at work./

James:

Hello. What are we talking about today

Jimmy:

Hi James. Today we're talking about how you can inspire people.

James:

Oh, I know a lot about that. I'm very inspirational. You should then we should do it like a survey of people who used to work with me and see and see how inspirational they thought I

Jimmy:

Our survey said.

James:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

Anyhow, anyone who leads a team of people wants to inspire them. And being called an inspirational boss is a real badge of honor for people. It has a positive impact. If you're inspiring people, you're inspiring'em to do something, achieve, perform. You're having a positive impact on people's lives,

James:

but also the presupposes, you are inspiring'em to do something positive, doesn't

Jimmy:

Of course, of course. And that's all very subjective. As is what inspires people actually. But as we've discussed, it is actually very, very hard to do and hard to do consistently.

James:

as an aside, this will date when this podcast was recorded, but did you see that thing on the news the other day about Trump presenting to the 800 top military generals in the US

Jimmy:

No.

James:

Oh, so he he presented to them. And he was just met with a complete wall of silence. Yeah. And apparently if you're in the US military, the whole thing is you're supposed to be totally nonpartisan and you're not supposed to clap or anything for a politician, but I think there's rather. Blindsided Trump, who then said you're allowed to clap. You know, or smile. Then he said, and if you don't like what you've heard, you are welcome to get up and walk out as well, but you will lose your job. there you go. That is how to be an inspirational manager.

Jimmy:

Well, let's come back to that. But we do hope that some of the experiences and tips we we share will inspire you. But before we get into that, James, what have you been up to?

James:

What I've been up to, well I've been, I've done the, the Doss Goose Fair, I've been to see, I'm showing my age now. I went to see a band who's name freaking escape me. What are they called? Blue.

Jimmy:

Deacon Blue.

James:

De can believe that's it. you go. It shows how old I'm getting and they were really good. My wife got tickets for it and I was quite surprised. But yeah, it took me back to the late eighties, early nineties.

Jimmy:

Fair enough.

James:

see that. hot off the press news, we've been we have been awarded, I think that's maybe a bit strong, but awarded 71st place in the manager's top 100 podcasts.

Jimmy:

In the world.

James:

In the world, in the entire world. Now, I'm not entirely sure this isn't some sort of scam, but we made it onto the list, so if anybody's interested in seeing who else is on the top 100, I'll put a link in the show notes

Jimmy:

So,

James:

a look at it.

Jimmy:

in other words, if you quite like this podcast and you wanna find out more even better stuff, there's 70 that are better

James:

70 better ones

Jimmy:

Go and have a listen, check them out

James:

and have a listen, so well, yeah, we'll leave the link.

Jimmy:

and, and

James:

So yeah,

Jimmy:

just on the Goose Fair James, which is a very famous fair in Nottingham,

James:

Yeah,

Jimmy:

is it that you have to have there? There's something that you have to have in it.

James:

cock on the stick.

Jimmy:

That's it. Did you have one?

James:

I managed to back away from the cock on the stick. What you should really do is dip it in some mushy peas

Jimmy:

Nice.

James:

for the full taste sensation. How about you?

Jimmy:

Well, I talked, a little while ago about my trip to Santorini I had really interesting experience. I stayed in this Radison hotel. So it was a nice hotel, right? It was very passionate. But, I had amazing food, great location.

James:

management class. That is mate. Well done. Executive

Jimmy:

was, it was definitely executive class. But the, you know, the best thing, I was writing a review on it, on TripAdvisor and. The number one thing I had to say about this hotel was the the staff and they were, they were amazing. I've never stayed or experienced anything like it where absolutely everyone was friendly, helpful, they were always bothered about you. They want to make sure you had a great time, and it was, it, it came across as being very genuine. It wasn't like I've got a target or.

James:

our survey says, yeah.

Jimmy:

My reflection was that, it's relevant for this podcast. My reflection was, it's because it was something cultural. You know what I mean? They had a culture in this, this organization, but also probably on this island.'cause the people are really friendly and they really appreciate tourists visiting. And so culturally that's how they are and that that delivered. Exceptional service. Never had anything like it in my life, you know, consistently to a person, whether it was the, the pool man or the, the receptionist didn't matter. They were all superb. As opposed to sometimes you experience where there's a system that drives people's behavior and then you get quite a lot of variation in how people behave and how people are. Just thought it was an interesting observation. So that's a, a TripAdvisor recommendation. The blue in San.

James:

Very good. So go on then. How to inspire your staff. So why are we talking about this? And I know that sounds a stupid question, but why are we talking about this?

Jimmy:

Well, I think it, it, on one level, it is a stupid question because why wouldn't you? Want to be inspirational. Why wouldn't you want to inspire people to perform? But when we've got into conversations about this, I guess the reason why we're covering it is actually we came to the conclusion. It, it's relatively rare.

James:

Oh, it's a bit more than relatively rare. Yeah. Downright unusual, I would say.

Jimmy:

so, you know, I, I mean, we're two mature gentlemen who have been, we've had lots of people work for us, and we've worked for lots of people. What was your reflection, James, on your experiences of having an inspirational boss or being an inspirational boss?

James:

yeah, so let's go with a having rather than the being. So I worked for 30 odd years, 33 years. And that's just add a boss every, probably every two years. They change over, don't they? So I'm into what, 15, 16 bosses, something like that. I can only really think of one who was truly inspirational. There were three or four who were pretty good, but in terms of actually truly inspirational, only one. So it's not something you see very often at all. In terms of me as a boss too, I think I was inspirational. Probably not. I think I probably got better as time went along, but for me, I think it's not so much about creating or being inspirational as a personal, it's about creating an environment where people want to come and work. So if there is such thing as an inspirational environment, I think that's the trick. How do you create an environment where people do their best work? So that's my take on them.

Jimmy:

Yeah. And I guess my view is very similar to yours, I think. I don't think anyone's inspirational all the time. I just think,

James:

the

Jimmy:

I just think that's impossibility.

James:

in the ass, wouldn't

Jimmy:

Well, I think it's impossibility and I think, you know, you, you, you wouldn't necessarily want that to be In terms of my view of, the people I've worked with. I think there are people who have been inspirational to me occasionally but not consistently. And I think that's the, that's about the best you can hope for is that you have moments of inspiration. And actually, to your point, was I inspirational to people? I think at times I might have been, but equally there were times when I probably. Piss some people off. And I think it is, it is different. So what, in what you find inspirational be different from what I find inspirational. So I think that's the other thing, why you can't, you can't be inspirational to everyone all the time. It just wouldn't possibly happen. But I think if you said that you've got inspirational, you've got uninspiring, and then I think actually you've got demotivating. I think I worked for as many people that were demotivating as I did, that were inspiring even at moments.

James:

No, I, I'd give more, sorry. I think I work for far more demotivational people than inspir.

Jimmy:

So I think that's one of the, one of the key takeaways actually, even if you can't inspire people to greatness, surely, you can avoid demotivating them, can't you?

James:

Well, I'd go further than that. I don't think it's one of the key takeaways. I think for me it is actually the points. Now my daughter is, well, 22 and she's just started working for a major retailer when I talk to her, she's so excited. She's buzzing with the opportunity and the work she's doing and and I remember being like that when I was in my early twenties, so, you know. Rare fired up and raring to go it's almost like over 30 years, I, people gradually just take the fire outta me, demotivate me one way or another or another. I honestly think it's not about being inspirational, for me the trick is to not demotivate people. So how can you create an environment where people's own motivation fires them along? That for me is the real trick.

Jimmy:

So essentially don't put out the fire.

James:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jimmy:

Well I think the interesting thing is, James, we're gonna go through from our experience of trying to lead groups of people and being on teams, we're gonna share some of the tips that we have are top tips for, for this. And I think, you know, you and I do come at it very differently. your tips are about having a, a system and how the system works.

James:

about

Jimmy:

Yeah. Whereas mine are more about the people and, I get on better with people than I do with systems, and you get on better with systems than you do with people.

James:

friends are systems. Yeah.

Jimmy:

That's why, that's why Gemini is now your, your number one.

James:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Jimmy:

James. How are you doing today?

James:

she hasn't demotivated me yet. Yeah. Go on then. So demotivational things that organizations do, what sort of things cross your

Jimmy:

Oh God. Well, one of the things that I, I definitely don't miss with being in full-time work is full-time meetings. I mean, if I could add up all the meetings I had in my career that there was no point to, I mean, I've probably wasted, days if not weeks or months of my life sat in meetings that were just a waste of time.

James:

Oh, and the more senior I got, the worse it became. I would estimate, I probably spent, I dunno, third to half of my time sitting in pointless

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

and nobody enjoyed them. And you know, and I poked finity. But the three hour risk and compliance meeting for the love of God, people seeing their show boating with fancy slides. But just bore everybody to tears. How is that motivational in any way, shape or form? So yeah, that's one thing I think we should definitely get rid of pointless meetings. Comes back to my comment when I started with Donald Trump at the start, they didn't look terribly motivated.

Jimmy:

I guess that's, another point that you made is, is the way organizations look at risk and compliance is one of the things a lot of people find difficult. And you know, jokingly, we, when I worked in sales, we used to call the compliance department the no sales department. Now it is really important for organizations to have structures and guide rails, but. The interpretation of them, I think can lead, a lot to be desired. But in all seriousness, we should get we, we have got some really good compliance people that do listen to this podcast and we should get. Them on to talk to us about how you can actually manage risk and compliance in a pragmatic, sensible way that actually accelerates your business performance.

James:

Okay. Yeah.'cause if it's boring people to tears, don't be surprised if they don't do it. And there's a very good point actually,

Jimmy:

yeah. A number of our guests are people who listen to the podcast and feel they've got something to contribute or suggest somebody who they think they'd love to hear and get'em on. So, yeah, suggest to a guest. Anyhow, other things that are. Demotivation, what else have you got? Yeah, so I'm gonna say it James, but let's not lose the next half an hour of our lives.

James:

you gonna set me off like a Catherine wheel here? I can see

Jimmy:

Recognition and performance management processes

James:

Yep. Things which just upset people because they feel that they've been highly done by it rather than them motivating them.

Jimmy:

that.

James:

quite clever to give somebody a pay rise and demotivate'em at the same

Jimmy:

I take some, some doing. We touch on one recently in our, the, the podcast we did on work being a source of vitality. And that was micromanagement and control. Nobody wants somebody looking over their shoulder and controlling their behavior and what they do, do they.

James:

No, no. And it's quite interesting as well,'cause the control, I suppose, comes back to our conversation about but it's the control, appropriate control. What are you controlling people to not do?

Jimmy:

Yeah. And another favorite of yours smart Goals.

James:

Yeah. Have you ever had a smart goal set for you that actually gave a damn about achieving?

Jimmy:

Often not. It's a, it is a wonderfully structured pointless exercise if you, if it doesn't mean something to you.

James:

Right. Absolutely. I would bet you a pound your penny that if you've got somebody who hadn't got a smart goal but wanted to do it somebody who'd been through the whole smart and all the forms and everything didn't want to do it, who's gonna achieve it more?

Jimmy:

I know where I put my money.

As well as recording this podcast, we help individuals, teams, and entire organizations achieve outstanding results. If you'd like to find out more about how we can help you, please get in touch. Email Jimmy at or James a.

James:

Right. Then back to the case in hand then, so we talked about how to demotivate people. What do you do in step there?

Jimmy:

I guess the number one thing we both sort of agree on is our age old favorite, which is state, a clear purpose for your team. You know, be really clear about it, get everyone bought into it. I think without that purpose, it's very difficult to inspire people for the sake of what.

James:

Yeah. And. I'd go a wee bit further.'cause a lot of organisations think they've got a purpose and they think their purpose is to be the best insurance company will make the most money as an oil company or whatever the hell it is. But that purpose really ought to be about what you are doing for others.'cause people get great satisfaction out of serving others and feeling they're doing a job well. They don't get satisfaction outta making rich people richer. So really when you talk about purposes, it's what is the service that you are providing to others.

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

So just sit back with your team and think about, well, what are we actually doing for who and who cares the damn that we turn

Jimmy:

And, it's got to matter to you. I was talking to my 19-year-old daughter the other day, and amazingly she said to me that her reason for working was. That she likes to make people feel good about themselves. She works as a beauty therapist and she's not talking about my purpose is being a beauty therapist, or My purpose is doing these treatments. It is about making people feel good about themselves and when you've got something like that, that's gonna drive you, onwards it.

James:

The other thing though is everybody wants to be on a winning team,

Jimmy:

Yes.

James:

but winning at what?

Jimmy:

Yeah. So getting a clear purpose, getting people wanting to do it, and feeling that they're being successful and making progress to that. I think that that more than anything, probably that we'll talk about is the number one thing that you can do to inspire people. But having said that, what else have we got then? James?

James:

Well, my next one is, and I choose my words very carefully, but once you've got that purpose, measure it. Are you achieving it or not? Because people like to know what the score is and they like to know that they're doing good work. Now there's a big difference between a target and a measure, and we can go around that circle in another podcast, but really if people don't know how they are doing, it all starts to become a bit pointless. There's a beautiful story about an American baseball game

Jimmy:

right?

James:

ever been to see American baseball.

Jimmy:

but I kind of vaguely know it.

James:

You go to a baseball game and there's loads and loads of noise. And there's this guy at this baseball, match and it was pretty quiet. Really. Nobody was saying anything. Nobody was getting terribly excited about it. And you looked around, you couldn't understand it. After round he twigs. And the issue was that the scoreboard had stopped working and course the scoreboard had stopped working. Nobody knew how they were doing because nobody knew how they were doing. Nobody was getting excited about the game. So you really do need some measures to show how you're doing. Because people will get behind him, So there you go. Purpose and then good set of measures. That would be my, my first thing. How about you?

Jimmy:

So, as we said, I, I'll go a different direction from you on this. It's not that I think that things that you've got on on your aren't perfect valued. I guess my first thing would be to. Actually understand the people you work with as people. So I think when you go to work often you feel that you're just a number or you just feel that people value you for the job. Actually spending some time getting to know them as people and showing that you care about them, that you're bothered about them., So that would be one thing for me is understand a bit more about people and their lives and and show them that you care about'em.

James:

Yeah, much. It pains me to have to agree with you. People are more important than spreadsheets marginally. there's that, there's the the story about the second, well, first World War, you know, people in the trenches. And you, you're the captain in the trench and you stand there and shout over the top boys who's following you and they ain't gonna follow you if you don't care

Jimmy:

No,

James:

Let's be very honest about it. So yeah, I, I'll buy that.

Jimmy:

what's, what's your next one then, James?

James:

Well, the next one for me, I think really is, so you've got on, go back to my purpose and measures things. You've got that in place, but get your team to tell you what is getting in the way, what is stopping them. achieving the thing that you want them to

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

are you, so we talked about stupid bureaucracy but what are the, the rules? What are the regulations? What are the tasks? What are the things that they are doing that can stop them from doing their job? Because if you can get a list of those and then start to knock them on the heads, or even give the guys that were working with you, the opportunities to knock them on the head themselves. They'll be bang up for

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

they'll think you're golden. So that is really mo well, is it motivational? I think it is people being given the opportunity to improve that, their work they're doing. So that would be my next thing if I find out what's getting in the way and given the opportunity to fix those things.

Jimmy:

My next one would be, I think there's something in it for me about self-awareness, about understanding how you show up. Showing up as a human, not just, as a corporate clone you know, I've got to be strong and I've got to know all the answers. Be a bit vulnerable, you know, be honest with people. And I think on often a lot of the people that I've worked with who had the most negative impact and were most de-motivation often didn't really understand the impact that they were having.

James:

Hmm.

Jimmy:

They didn't ask, didn't care. And actually when I, I found, when I got some of the toughest feedback for me at times it didn't feel nice in the moment to, to get that, but it did help me understand the impact I was having on others. You know, people would tell me things like I wasn't very good at listening or I didn't understand the impact I was having on people. Sorry, what'd you say? What?

James:

really sound Yeah. Yeah. I like

Jimmy:

I didn't think about the hierarchies. I wasn't understanding how, what the impact I was having. And actually, when people talk to me about the positive or negative impact I was having sometimes, the negative impact, it was never my intention to be a certain way. So you can change how you behave, but actually it shows that you are, Are interested. So be yourself, be human, be vulnerable, but also, just show understand how you're impacting people. And, and, and as you say, James, people need to, to at least like you,

James:

yeah,

Jimmy:

if, to back to your, your favorite subject, you know, Donald Trump. I mean, how many people are acting out of fear? Versus out of love and admiration for him.

James:

the next one for me. It is actually think about how you can help your staff build better skills and get better at their job. Yeah. Because a lot of people look at that and think, well, I don't want'em to build better skills and get better at their job.'cause if I do that, they'll be a threat to me. Or they'll go off and find another job. But actually they want to go and find another job anyway. I mean, that's just the way of the world. So you might as well help them because if you can do that they will respect you for it. And if you get reputation of being a guy who helps people move on and up on their own careers, then other people will come want to come and work in your department and work for you

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

So that will be thing I would think about, you know, skills, how do you help people build their own skills? So there's a, I I think quite an important point.

Jimmy:

My, my next one would be be generous with praise and thoughtful with criticism. And by that I mean often. In a work situation, you're always wanting the, the next improvement, the next result, the end of the transformation, the end of the journey. And actually you don't often recognize people and their efforts on the journey so be more generous. I'd certainly learn. Early in my career, I was not generous with praise. I was always wanting the end game, whereas actually be far more generous with praise and thoughtful then about the criticism. Sometimes we do have to give feedback to people, but just be thoughtful about doing it in a timely fashion. Think about the impact that you are going to have on them, and don't just like kind of p you know how some people just go through life never giving any praise, just firing out negatives like bullets. Imagine that. Impact that's gonna have on people. But if you are generous with praise and thoughtful with your criticism and show that it's to help people, that's much more likely to inspire them.

James:

Yeah. And all right, so yes, and you can systematize that, right? So if you're not that type of person,

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

God's sake, go out and buy yourself a packet of thank you

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

Have it sitting on your desk and every Monday, write out a couple of thank you cards.'cause there's always something that somebody

Jimmy:

Yeah. And

James:

that little praise goes

Jimmy:

that's a great, great tip. It's a really good habit to get into.

James:

But then I suppose that brings us back to my overriding message, which is if you want to inspire people, it's about creating an environment where people feel inspired and it's not all about you.

Jimmy:

Yeah,

James:

They don't want an inspiring leader. What they want is an environment where they know what they're there to do. Obstacles are removed out of the way. They get thanked and they they can get on and do a good job. So I think that for me really is the point. It's all about creating that environment.

Jimmy:

think that's a great, great point, James. Which is, don't just get caught up on it, it's all about you.'cause actually the environment has a bigger impact on. On people than, than you will at times,

James:

That is how we think you should go about inspiring people.

Jimmy:

So we hope you're enjoying and getting value from this into this podcast. If you are, please share it. Help us grow the audience. Pass it online or to friends or colleagues or on your social media. Anything do would be a really great help.

James:

Yeah, and whilst we'd love to have a load of five star reviews, any feedback whatsoever would be really helpful'cause it just make this podcast better and make it more appropriate for people. So please do get in touch and let us know what you think.

Jimmy:

And this all helps us bring you the best quality show possible to help you improve your performance and enjoyment at work..

James:

So I'd like to just bring one more thought

Jimmy:

Okay.

James:

This debate. Have you come across the book Drive by Dan Pink?

Jimmy:

I've heard of it,

James:

Yeah. Well want for you to listen to, mate. You need to get this on your,

Jimmy:

James. As I told you when I was on holiday, I actually read a real physical book

James:

A real physical book. Wow.

Jimmy:

to, in fact,

James:

I dread to think what it was. Anyway, so Dan put his book drive is all about what drives

Jimmy:

yeah.

James:

get their motivation. And he talks about three things in that he says purpose, you know, they need to have a purpose. He talks about giving people autonomy so they can get on and do stuff themselves. And he talks about allowing people to develop mastery because if you have those three things. Then you can get really motivated and you'll keep on going.

Jimmy:

Thanks James. Good recommendation. Then Drive by Dan Pink.

James:

And the alternative, of course, is what most managers do, which is the old carrot and stick. Yeah. Which really don't work, doesn't motivate anyone. I used to work one place and they used to say, oh, it's good here. We don't have carrots and sticks. We just have a carrot shape stick, which is an interesting thought.

Jimmy:

So, in summary, everyone wants to inspire people. It's a real badge of honor. But we found that it's very difficult to do consistently, and actually more people demotivate you than actually inspire you.

James:

Really think about am I creating that environment where people can be motivated? Are we really clear about our purpose, clear what we're trying to do? Are we really clear about measures? Are we actively removing barriers and developing people so they can do a good job, and also some of the soft, fluffy people stuff

Jimmy:

Because remember what inspires different people will be different things. And James has shared with you a few of his system views on things and I've shared some of the people things, but it is an individual thing. So hopefully you found some of this really useful for you, inspired you even.

James:

Inspired you. Good. I'm glad we put that to bed. I'll speak

Jimmy:

Alright, thank you everyone.

James:

Cheers. Now.

Speaker:

As well as recording this podcast, we help individuals, teams, and entire organizations achieve outstanding results.

Speaker 2:

If you'd like to find out more about how we can help you, please get in touch email, either jimmy@ajodowell.com or James at ajo dunwell com.

Head Shot

James Lawther

Co-host
Head Shot

Jimmy Barber

Co-host