A Job Done Well - Making Work Better

How to Get Promoted Without Selling Your Soul

• Jimmy Barber, James Lawther • Season 3 • Episode 8

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This week, hosts James Lawther and Jimmy Barber explore the subject of getting promoted and suggest how you can go about it without compromising your values or playing games. 

They discuss how promotions work in organisations, the importance of thinking through why you want a promotion, how you position yourself and some things to be wary of. The mix of practical tips and anecdotes will engage and inform on a topic many are interested in but few openly discuss!

They also talk weather and holiday strategies - but don't go on too much!

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Speaker 7:

Hello, I'm James. Hi, I'm Jimmy and welcome to a Job Done Well, the podcast that helps you improve your performance enjoyment at work.

James:

Hello, how are you doing?

Jimmy:

Hi James. I'm doing well. How are you?

James:

I'm fabulous. Thank you very much. What are we talking about today then?

Jimmy:

Well, today we are going to be talking about how to get promoted without selling your soul. So.

James:

It's a bit late. I'm 50 flipping seven. I could have done with this 30 years

Jimmy:

Fortunately, we are not the audience for this episode. We're gonna be sharing our insights, our hints and tips on how to get promoted without playing games or compromising your values.

James:

So it's like one of those things where you've got the the role model to aspire to, and they don't do it like that as well. Between us, we'll have people on the, on the right

Jimmy:

We've got everything covered on this podcast, James.

James:

Anyway, before we get into that, what have you been up to?

Jimmy:

Well, obviously, you're just back from holiday, James. I haven't seen you for a little while, so I've been pining for you. Apart from that, getting depressed at the weather, I think, which. I don't like this time of year, and I'll tell you why. It's when you get into winter, you know the weather's gonna be shit, and you get up each day and you expect to be shit At the moment, you're getting every season in one. You just, you can't plan anything. You can't plan how to dress, and the nights are getting dark. It's miserable. So in case you, I'm, I'm suffering from seasonal disorder, whatever it is at the moment.

James:

Is that where

Jimmy:

I am sad. James, how about you? What have you been up to?

James:

Well, I've been on holiday and I fully relate to the, it is that time of year because I've just been on holiday. I went to Italy for two weeks, which was lovely. But you are out in Italy and it's nice and bright and it's warm and I always go this time of year because my kids were at get school holiday, but then you come back and it's the 1st of November, it summer has gone, you know, it is you know, a bit of a shock to the system. So the weather is miserable.

Jimmy:

One of the strategies I operated with for holidays is how go somewhere hot at the end of February. I'll tell you.

James:

And the

Jimmy:

I'll tell you the reason why.'cause you, you're going through winter and it's a bit miserable, but you can look forward to Christmas. Well then after Christmas, you haven't got the long stretch of winter in front of you. You've only got get through to February and then you're getting somewhere hot. And then you come back and lo and behold, spring has sprung.

James:

Oh, I don't do that, mate. Yeah, you, I'm phenomenally middle class.

Jimmy:

are.

James:

skiing in February. I don't go somewhere hot.

Jimmy:

See, I don't get that. I mean, why would you wanna go somewhere cold? We're cold here. There's plenty of cold.

James:

Yeah. Well, anyway, let's not talk about our holiday proclivities. Tell me then, how am I gonna get promoted?

Jimmy:

Let's start by just talking about our experience of promotions. So, from my perspective, I had this slightly naive view when I was, early in my career, I just thought if you worked hard, you got good results, you get promoted, it just was gonna happen. You didn't need to do anything about it. Work hard, good results. Good things will happen. And then as I got a bit more experience, I realized actually it's much more nuanced than that and it becomes much more subjective about who's getting promoted. And it isn't just, unfortunately, this perfect world where hard work and results are all that counts. And so you get into. Not necessarily games playing, but you certainly have to do some, some of the things around, your profile and stuff like that, that, so some people are quite uncomfortable., For me, you have to balance up your personal desire to be promoted with your comfort at going beyond hard work and results to secure a promotion. But I definitely changed my view as a, as I learned more in my career. What about you, James?

James:

Well, and I think actually when you are younger, sort of in your twenties, I think there's a lot of truth in what you say. If you work hard to get good results, you'll get promoted. And the reason why I say that is you're at the bottom of the triangle, so

Jimmy:

Yeah. Yeah.

James:

there are a lot more opportunities above you. And actually that is the way too, yeah. To get promoted. I would argue that's still the way to get promoted as you go through, yeah, you have to play a slightly

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

But when you get to your, I dunno, mid thirties and forties, then those opportunities do dry up.

Jimmy:

When I was in my twenties, James,, I used to have this view of I wanna be promoted in the next six months or nine months, or year or two years, whatever. It's, and I worked out, when I looked back, just double everything. Double whatever your expectation is, you nearer what's actually going to happen in reality anyhow. You were saying in your thirties and forties.

James:

Well in my face, I think there's a big difference. Right? So

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

I like a little model, don't I? So I'll tell me model. it's two by two

Jimmy:

Yeah,

James:

on the one axis you've got being good.

Jimmy:

yeah.

James:

And on the other axis you've got looking good.

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

Yeah. So you can be good and look good, which is really where I think you need to be. Yeah. Or, and we all have works of one of these clowns. Somebody who looks good but isn't good. So for me, I think the real trick is to find that sweet spot of being good and looking good. There you go. There's the, you know, big intuitive thought according to law.

Jimmy:

Well, let's go into a bit more detail. Context is really important when it comes to promotion'cause. You need to understand how promotions actually work in your organization.'cause it is different in different organizations, right? Some organizations, and we've worked in some that have very formal processes, where you have annual boards where everyone who's deemed as being promotionally ready gets discussed and it's a very structured career framework

James:

Yeah, sorry to cut cross. I always found that a bit strange when you are walking. So I'm working somewhere and they have a six monthly promotion

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

I worked one place and they actually promoted people even if they didn't have jobs for them to go in, which struck me as a bit bizarre. But yeah, it is. It really does vary from organization to

Jimmy:

'cause promotions don't, you don't need people in new jobs once every six months or once every year. It is ongoing

James:

need when you need

Jimmy:

Exactly. I think the other thing is who decides on a promotion? Is it your boss decides on if you are being promoted? Is it the hiring manager who decides and that can all be true, but in lots of organizations it can be a number of people who have a say in. Whether you are getting promoted or not. So it can be your boss, it can be, it can be HR people who might assess you, might look at, you might be other colleagues of your boss and the hiring manager who have perspectives on how you're performing. So it's worth understanding that.

James:

interesting, sorry to cut Chris again, but one of the things you haven't mentioned, some organizations do do this and maybe more should, but actually it's the people who work for you decide

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

be promoted. Yeah. And some organizations do do that, but it's actually vanishingly rare.

Jimmy:

It is. It is. And I guess the point about the audience is that does mean, to your point about looking good, who are you going to look good to? Because you need to understand that audience who maybe. In your example, James, where there's a, a, a panel of people deciding that's obvious, but informally. Things can influence the promotions. So we would've both sat in teams where at times, I don't know if, if I was going to promote someone, I might bring it back to our leadership team and say, I'm thinking promoting X. And you would have an opinion on that. It wouldn't be official or formal, but you would be influencing my decision based on your perspective of that person. So understanding the process that's been followed. And the people that are going to be involved. And then thinking about your strategy for managing that is an important part of managing the the context.'cause it can be as much about navigating that system that you're getting promoted through as it can be on your own personal brilliance that is gonna get you promoted.

James:

Yeah, and if you're in a position where you are managing the system, it's probably worth standing back and saying, well, this is how our system works. What are the implications of

Jimmy:

Yeah,

James:

And what does that mean for the sort of behaviors we see in our organization? So I'll drift off the topic a little bit, but it's an interesting

Jimmy:

that's true because people do consciously or subconsciously make some of these decisions, and I guess one of the things that we would always say when we're talking about these subjects is. We don't always have the right answers. We have some of the answers, some perspectives, but one of the things is being intentional and I think that does apply to, promotions, be intentional about what your strategy is for getting promoted.

James:

But your key point here really though, is that getting promoted, it's as much about understanding the system and navigating the system that you work in as it is about personal

Jimmy:

Absolutely. Absolutely. So I guess the next thing, after you think about the context you're in before you do anything, you've really got to consider what, what is it that you really want? So, Think about your your motivation. Why do you want promotion? You know, too many times I think people get promotion because they haven't really thought about why they wanted it. They're just going after it because they're on that corporate hamster wheel, and the next thing you do, isn't it? You just gotta keep climbing the ladder. And thinking about why you want to climb the ladder.'cause, you know, be careful what you wish for. I mean, I, in my experience, I, I was working in one organization once and there was a big promotion on offer there, and people were putting me forward for this promotion and my ego got the better of me. And I was like, yes, I should go for it. And then when I actually thought about the type of work I would be doing if I got promoted, I realized it was work that I hated. And at the time I was doing work that I loved. So it's like, well, hang on a minute. Why am I going to get, put myself forward promotion to do work that I hate? So in the end, I, did catch myself on, but my ego got too out of control and I, I turned around and said, no, I don't want, I, I would rather stay doing this job.

James:

Yes, and I think your point about motives is really important. The problem is when you're in an organization, there's only one. Way of measuring yourself, which is how senior you are. And you know, I've worked in organizations where you guess the greater the manager by whether or not the carpet went all the way to the flipping edge of their office, or I could you not? Did they have a circular table in their office as well as a desk? Or was it a square table? Rammed in the corner. And then also, you know, what was their job title? Let me even notice this. I'm gonna digress again. Job title inflation.

Jimmy:

Yeah. Yeah.

James:

I tell a director is not what a director

Jimmy:

No, no.

James:

but yeah. But the problem is that everybody aspires to get that one step up the ladder.'cause they want more ma money and they want more Qudos.

Jimmy:

Yeah. Yeah.

James:

But actually is that going to give you what you want?

Jimmy:

Yeah. Is that going to make you happy? I can, I can outdo your, your carpet to the edge of the office. I I got, I did actually get promoted in one organization and I was. I made you know, I was in charge of the UK operation and in the region that I was living in, there was a regional manager. And so

James:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

I was going to be in the office, I would be in the office for the regional manager who's one of my. Direct reports. And this poor facilities guy said to me, look, I'm really sorry. You know, we haven't got an office that's big enough for you in this, in this building. I was like, that's okay. I don't, don't need an office. He says, I'll, I'll convert a meeting room if you want. I was like, no, no, I, I'm quite all right. I'll just, just get me a desk. I'll be, I'll be good. And anyway, came back to me a couple of days later, said, look, I'm really sorry. I've got a massive problem. I can't find you a desk that is bigger than the regional managers. I was, what do you mean? Like, and for some reason this regional manager had his desk. It was like the si the size of a small football pitch, and he couldn't find a desk that was bigger. I was like, I don't need a desk that's bigger, so long as I've got room from my laptop and a cup of tea. Jobs are good. But he was absolutely distraught about the fact that he couldn't procure a bigger desk. Anyhow, we digress.

James:

Well we do

Jimmy:

Sort of,

James:

back to the point of what are your

Jimmy:

yeah. What's important?

James:

and why is this in promotion important to you?

Jimmy:

Let's, let's be clear. We're not saying that getting promoted is not a good thing. I mean, you can get more challenging work, you can get more interesting work, you can have a bigger impact. You can enjoy the trappings of it, so it's not necessarily a bad thing, but I think it's about being intentional that you keep that balance between. Why am I getting this promotion? Why do I want the promotion? What are my values around it? And understand that you, you are going to have to do something. Almost certainly, you're gonna have to do something outside your core role of working hard and delivering great results. You will have to probably have to do more, especially as you say James, as you get to more senior levels, it will be more involved the things that are required. And so, ha understanding and being intentional about thinking through your sweet spot, I think is, is really important.

Speaker:

Our podcast is all about helping people, teams, and organizations perform better and enjoy work more. I get as far as to say that we believe that everyone and every team has the potential to transform their performance by optimizing what they currently do. So if you'd like to discuss how we can help you transform your performance, then get in touch or maybe check out our website. We also do speaking events, mentoring advice, work as well.

James:

The money is nice, but really when you're looking from a promotion, I think it's, this job going to be more interesting and then you can get more out of it.'cause you, you can sell your soul if you want to that way nice madness. But then having said all of that, right, so you've gone through that and you've decided you do want this promotion. What do you need to do about it then? What would your advice be?

Jimmy:

I think first off, I would think about how you position yourself, and I'd suggest, the best way to position yourself is a way that you're comfortable with. So position yourself authentically. So I think there's a few things to consider on here. First off, I do think it is important to be delivering good results. reliably They still matter most of the time. So I think that's one thing, you know, make sure that you are building on solid foundation. And we both know lots of people who don't do that. And it may work for a while, but you get yourself found out and we know some people who are very senior in organizations. But they have to move. Yeah, they move every couple of years because they get found out. And that's a strategy, isn't it? And if that's what you wanna do, great. Happy days, do that. But I think building on a solid ground of a deliver good results, it's a, good way, good starting point. And then.

James:

so deliver consistently, that's.

Jimmy:

Yeah. And I think then, but you do have to be seen. So back to my point about when I was early in my career, I thought just do great results and good things will happen. People don't always see those great results, you know, so you do have to find ways of being visible through your contribution, being able to tell stories, being able to share, being able to show stuff but not show off. So, yeah. One of the things that one of our old bosses really helped me with was, he was saying, going and sharing your successes from the perspective of, here's some things that have worked well that that might be a help to you. Offering it has help rather than showing. Done in the right way, lands really well. If you're just going off and showing off, I'm great, I'm great. Look at my results. But if you're doing it for the sake of helping people, that is one way of, of being seen and not showing off. Building advocates. So back to the point earlier about, it can be a network of people that decide on your promotion formally and informally. So building some advocates, people not just your boss, don't, don't leave up to your boss. They've got plenty on as it is. And, in some of those boards, panels, discussions. Your bosses will often advocate for you, but they would do, wouldn't they?'cause they're your boss,

James:

they

Jimmy:

whereas somebody else then speaking up who's not your boss, who's an advocate for you, that can be even way more powerful than your boss giving you the big up con.

James:

Well, yeah. And the other side of building advocates is don't go around pissing people

Jimmy:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

James:

that sounds a bit Yeah. But you see people who do that. They go around and they don't care. They upset on the way, but Be careful who you upset on the way up.'cause you'll meet him on the way back down. It's very true. So if you wanna be promoted, Lawther's words of wisdom cause I've done it don't be a c###k Yeah, I agree. James, I just wish,, when we were working together that you took your advice. I'd come to that conclusion. It's, it's only like 20 years too late.

Jimmy:

Anyhow, the other thing I would call out, which I know it sounds really obvious, but it's not, is let people know that you're, you're ambitious. That you want to get on and that you want promotion, you want a new job, whatever it is, because you know people aren't mind readers. And if you're really happy doing a job and you're getting on and you're busy and you never express anything wrong, people don't always know that you're up for it.

James:

Oh yeah, and then well, people con even worse than that, they'll think you are not up

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

Because if you don't throw your hat into the ring, then you won't be considered. And I had an instance once when you know, boss of mine had moved on and there was an opportunity to take his role. Now whether or not I'd have got it as a moot point, but I absolutely chose not to apply because I didn't like the guy I'd have been working for. But you, if you don't throw your hat in the ring, you don't stand the hope in hell of getting the job. So you do need to be signaling. Yes, I'm ready for the next

Jimmy:

And, and the reality is, if you are delivering good, solid, consistent, high performing results, it's probably in everyone's interest to keep you in the status quo.'cause you're doing well. Why would you wanna move it? So you do have to get that balance between delivery and actually, the potential for getting promoted.

James:

So you've got, then let me go through what you've just said. So you've got deliver consistently. You need to be

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

You need to be building advocates. You need to be asking for the promotion. People need to know you want one. Anything else?

Jimmy:

Well, yeah, I think when you're talking to people, you should be talking about the value you bring to a, an organization, to a business, and really focused on the outcomes that you're getting for that business. So talk the language of value, I think is another way of thinking about it, particularly when you're going and sharing what you're doing.

James:

Yeah, and there was a, oh, what's a quote? Something along the lines of you can't be promoted for potential if nobody knows what your potential is. So it's not show boating. It

Jimmy:

Yeah,

James:

getting people to understand how you can help them.

Jimmy:

but I think that one of the key points is on a number of these Hings, James, you probably will have to get outta your comfort zone.'cause, often we're in a comfort zone doing a great job, delivering great results. Yeah. But going and sharing them and telling people and building advocates, talking the language of value that can all be outside your comfort zone. So you have to be a, a, intentional about that. And B, you have to have the desire to do that. So you have to balance your desire to get promoted with your desire to come outta your comfort zone.

James:

Yeah. And there's this whole thing about rejection as

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

Yeah. Because that's always the fear of rejection. Yeah. You might reject, but faint heart never wear one. Fair lady. So you, you gotta have a go if you really

Jimmy:

Exactly. I think there are also some other things to watch out for. On this journey to promotion. One, one of them back to the, the delivery point is don't use getting great results as an excuse for not doing some of the other stuff. So that might be your comfort zone, but it's really easy to just justify, I should be in here cracking on doing these great results and not doing the other stuff. So don't just get sucked into that performance trap.

James:

Yeah. And that just tied back to the whole thing about fear of failure. If you're doing a great job, but nobody knows you want any, anything else, people will just assume you don't want it. And yeah, like you say, the performance track.

Jimmy:

Another trap to avoid is the just playing politics. There's lots of people in, in organizations that just play games. They get attention for all the wrong things. That doesn't last people can see through it. And you can really damage your trust if you if people see that you're just playing games, how many people we've talked about in the past, so and so, he, he was really good at managing upwards and that's, we would always say that as not as a positive. It wasn't, they were very good, they were very networked, they were very capable. It's, it's a cracy thing'cause what.

James:

It's about where you've got your nose, isn't it? Yeah.

Jimmy:

Exactly. It was always, they were very good at managing upwards, but they actually didn't do any work. They didn't do any of the delivery.

James:

at

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

Yeah. So you don't wanna be caught in the politics. Trapman, what else have you got for

Jimmy:

I think the other one is, you know, try and avoid just getting burnt out, driving for promotion. People can just, work harder and harder to really, take on more and more, you know, gimme more work, gimme more projects, give me more, and you just burn yourself out and then your stresses shot to pieces, your performance will be shot to pieces. So just watch on the the, the take taking on too much bit.

James:

Well, and this and there's an interesting point there as well, which maybe we should have another episode about, but if you're managing or if you're a manager, it's not, you are managing people. So the challenge is not to take it all on yourself, but to get the most out of your team.

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

really that's the challenge there. You know, avoid burnout by giving your team good, interesting, exciting work. And then the results will come. So, yeah, absolutely agree with that one.

Jimmy:

And I think don't get caught in the fairness myth.'cause promotions aren't always done on a. Meritocracy basis. It, we all think this is wonderfully fair. And you know, there are many times, I, I don't even remember James many years ago, us being working together on a team and our, we asked our boss about how you could do better and he told us a few of the, the guys in another team who were all deemed to be promotionally ready. And, and we, we were spewing'cause we didn't see it, we didn't experience it, we didn't experience positive from them. But you could get really, you know, burnt up by that unfairness if you're not careful.

James:

Yeah, and I think that's

Jimmy:

I.

James:

key point here, really, is that promotion. It will not be purely merit-based. It never is. But in most organizations, it's not purely political either. It sits somewhere

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

two. to your point, I understand the system and work with the system

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Jimmy:

So we've got a few, a few final practical tips. So

James:

I.

Jimmy:

Working out your style of visibility, whether that's. Sharing some of your successes so other people can learn. Whether that's speaking up at times, whether that's mentoring people, whether that's asking for help and getting mentored by others. That's often a really good way of building someone to be an advocate of yours if they feel a vested interest in your performance because they've mentored you. That's another way of of doing it. But I think being. Conscious and being comfortable with your approach so you don't get caught in the, I feel that I'm, just showboating for no reason. Always do that with some purpose in, in mind. Understand what does good look like, where you are, how is success? Rewarded, particularly if you're new to an organization and you want to get on, just understand formally, but also the informal ways things are done. So how is success measured?

James:

Let me throw one in. Then I think getting feedback and getting feedback early

Jimmy:

Yeah,

James:

Yeah, so find out what your boss thinks about

Jimmy:

I.

James:

Find out what he thinks his peers think about you. It depends on the system of course you're working in, but who are the decision makers? And get the feedback for them. Find out what you need to do differently.

Jimmy:

Yeah, and I would also think about how you can support others. And support others to do their job. Support others to develop, support others to get on. Because the more people that you're helping, the more likely you are to have advocates and support, and people do get noticed for their leadership. And those things do really count at times.

James:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

Keep a record of your performance. You often end up sitting down and having that intensive review at the end of the year. You can't remember what you did in Q1. You have not got any idea. So just make some rough notes during the year of the things that you're proudest of, things that you've achieved the most. So when you do sit down. With your boss. Inevitably, as a part of that performance, you've got everything to hand and you can remind yourself about the great things that you've done.

James:

Yeah. And I think the final one, and I've got two for you actually. off, you do need to step out of your comfort zone. Yeah. It's, you, you may get knocked back. Yeah. You may hate networking with people, but these are the things that you need to do. So if that's what's important to you, yeah. You've got to step outta your comfort zone and do them.

Jimmy:

I think that's true, James. Just on that point, both of us had in our career had a different comfort zone, and that got us an outcome. We were happy with. So that's the sweet spot you wanna be, is on the edge of your comfort zone, but getting the outcomes that you want to get to. If your desire for outcomes is much greater, you have to extend your comfort zone. You have to keep expanding it, but you've gotta be happy with both your approach and the outcome that you are gunning for. Go on. You had one more.

James:

Yeah. If your chief executive says something really fucking stupid, don't have to tell him. That would be my last piece of advice.

Jimmy:

That sounds like you're speaking from bitter experience there, James.

James:

Yeah, sometimes you just need to tell the emperor he is wearing some clothes.

Jimmy:

Exactly. Change it. Exactly. So just some final reflections on promotion. Remember. Promotion is only one form of progress. It's not the only one, growth, changing a job, changing, responsibilities you have that can be the best move.'cause you get your happiness through your work. You don't get your happiness just through your promotion. Remember that?

James:

the nicest things, I remember hearing about somebody with one of those promotional panels, but we were talking about somebody her boss said that she was running her own race, which I thought was a really

Jimmy:

Oh yeah.

James:

of putting it. Yeah. You know, what's important to you run that

Jimmy:

Well, the, the real win is when the work you're doing aligns with your skills. So you're getting good performance. It's something that you enjoy, that you're passionate about, and it, and it aligns with your values. Quite often promotions might stretch that. So think about that. We've shared Some of our experiences, some of our hints and tips about how you can think about promotions and how you can get promotions.

James:

So let's summarize that then.

Jimmy:

Okay.

James:

So for me, key first point is understand your motivations. You know, why do you want this job, this promotion? And is it really gonna make your your life better?

Jimmy:

And be intentional about all of the decisions that you are making and understand the context and the rules of your organization. How are promotions decided, not just the formal routes, but the informal routes?

James:

The key thing for me is you do need to deliver. So deliver constantly. It's not the only game in town, but you need to deliver

Jimmy:

And when you're delivering, be seen for delivery, but seen, but not showy.

James:

Build advocates around the organization so people who will say nice things about you, and that's not just looking up the way, but that is also, and maybe just as importantly, the people who are, are working for you. You don't want them bad mouthing you either.

Jimmy:

Talk about the value that you bring to the organization and to others in the organization.

James:

Yeah, avoid playing politics. You don't want to be known as the person who's good at managing upwards.

Jimmy:

And one final point, please remember, let people know that you wanna be promoted If you don't ask for it, people aren't always gonna know that you're up for being promoted.

James:

Yeah. And one final, final point, You don't tell your chief executive, he is a co. No matter how nicely you put, here's some big mistake.

Jimmy:

There speaks the voice of experience On that note, hope you've,

James:

speak to you next

Jimmy:

yeah. Hope you've enjoyed today's episode, and we'll speak to you next week. Take care everyone.

James:

Now.

Speaker 6:

We cover a whole host of topics on this podcast from purpose to corporate jargon, but always focused on one thing, getting the job done well, easier said than done. So if you've got. Unhappy customers or employees, bosses or regulators breathing down your neck. If your backlogs are outta control and your costs are spiraling and that big IT transformation project that you've been promised, just keeps failing to deliver, we can help. If you need to improve your performance, your team's performance, or your organizations, get in touch at Jimmy at@jobdonewell.com orJames@jobdonewell.com.

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James Lawther

Co-host
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Jimmy Barber

Co-host