A Job Done Well - Making Work Better

High Performing Teams Part 1 – With Elana Friedman

• Jimmy Barber • Season 3 • Episode 9

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Elana Friedman, an expert in organisational development and team dynamics, joins James Lawther and Jimmy Barber this week to discuss the secrets of high-performing teams.

Elana shares her journey from South Africa to the UK, and how her experiences shaped her desire to help teams and organisations thrive. Together, the hosts and Elana explore the Adaptable Team Framework model and the elements that drive team success: clear outcomes, practical actions, and the right mindset.

Some of the key points include:

  • Why high performing teams are about more than just results—they’re about meaning, enjoyment, and continuous learning.
  • The importance of aligning systems and processes with team goals (and why “stop the stupid” is a mantra worth adopting!).
  • How beliefs and assumptions shape team culture, and why healthy conflict and trust are vital.

This episode is packed with insights, real-world examples, and actionable tips for anyone looking to boost their team’s performance and enjoyment at work. 

And don’t miss the cliffhanger—next time, Elana returns to discuss team leadership and learning rhythms!

Listen now and discover how you can transform your team’s potential. 

If you have any thoughts or questions? Reach out to us at Jimmy@jobdonewell.com or James@jobdonewell.com.

Got a question - get in touch. Click here.

Speaker:

Hello, I'm James. Hi, I'm Jimmy and welcome to a Job Done Well, the podcast that helps you improve your performance enjoyment at work.

James:

Good afternoon. How you doing?

Jimmy:

I'm doing well. James, how are you doing?

James:

I'm all right. It's a November afternoon and it's a bit gray and miserable out there, but other than that, I'm all right. I've got the heating on.

Jimmy:

When, when

James:

I've put the heating on in my little bit of the office here. I've put the heating on in the rest of the

Jimmy:

really, our heating come on about six weeks ago.

James:

do it.

Jimmy:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No messing around.

James:

Yeah. Jimmy lives in the house. It's a bit like blending palace. I dread to think how much his heating bill is

Jimmy:

It's not like blending Paris, but my heating bills are probably that way north. Anyhow. Today. Most importantly, we are talking about A subject I'm really excited about'cause we are going to be covering high performing teams. Now, this is one of those things that everyone wants to be part of a team that's doing well. Everyone wants to lead a team, be involved in teams. And James and I have had this on our list of things to talk about for a long while, but neither us are the expert talking about high falling teams. So we.

James:

Wishful, thank you.

Jimmy:

Yeah, we brought along an expert who were introduced in a second or two, but before we get into the subject of high performing teams, James, what you been up to?

James:

Well as a law, the first this weekend I had my, my mother came to noting for the weekend, and then my mother is 85 and very cultured. And the question is, what on the earth am I gonna do with my mom? So I took her to my first ever classical music concerts.

Jimmy:

Oh, no, I can't believe that that ain't true.

James:

I my first ever. And.

Jimmy:

To tell me you're in, and I have you as a staple down at the,

James:

No, I've never been. And I would prove that I've never been because I went to this thing and they played a couple of bits of music. It took about an hour and then it all stopped and people started to walk off the stage and I put my coat on to walk out and this woman said to me, no, no, no, no. There's more to come.

Jimmy:

oh.

James:

So I to take the coat back off. And, but there you go. Yeah. So but yeah, culture, that's

Jimmy:

I thought you were far more cultured than that, James. I am. I've had my, one of my lifelong illusions shattered this afternoon.

James:

No, I'm, yeah.

Jimmy:

Well,

James:

hands

Jimmy:

well, equally as cultured. This week has been all about football for me as usual. As ham forests have got back to their their glories by actually winning a game yesterday. And interesting enough, I took my other half along to it. She goes to one game a season and she came along to us. I said to her, look, you've got to manifest us winning. I said, that's all your job is. Just think about us winning like it to be three one. That's the score I'm looking for. So she said, you know, I'll, I've been thinking hard. I'm gonna get manifest it. And you know what the score was three one. So it shows the power of manifesting. Nah, nah. She, she, she refused. She's going out on a high. That's it. Her work here is done. Anyhow welcome Alana, thank you for joining us and bringing your expertise on all things high performing teams related. Do you

James:

before we go on then, yeah. Do you want tell us what you've been up to then?

Jimmy:

yeah.

Elana :

Actually, I've been just noticing the power of the, the women in each of your lives to make the difference. One got you to a, to kind of a three, one win. The other got you to a bit of music that you'd never done

Jimmy:

Yeah,

Elana :

I'm, I'm rather liking to.

James:

Yeah, I have, I have a, I have a mother, a wife, and two daughters. I've come to the conclusion, it's just a woman's world I'm passing through,

Jimmy:

We have no illusions. Who's in charge of our destiny?

Elana :

Yeah. My dad used to say the same thing. I'm one of three sisters living with my mother and three daughters. He was also definitely clear on where things sat in the family.

Jimmy:

So Alana, do you want to introduce yourself?

Elana :

Sure. I was trying to think about actually, how did I want to introduce myself coming into this? And I think one of the things I want to mention is that I grew up in South Africa, and actually I think I grew up in South Africa in the heights of Apartheids and in transition. Actually that feels quite important. Not only'cause it explains my accent, but also because it's, it's kind of gave me some of the core things that then informed the work that I do and how I come into this conversation. And kind of learning from growing up in South Africa. The kind of lived experience of change and how change can happen. The role of leaders, and we'll talk about that in terms of high performance teams and the importance of leaders and how they lead and how they kind of enroll and take people with them. And so those things have always been really. Interesting for me. And then I came over here to the UK and trained as a therapist and worked as a therapist for many years in really tricky and really challenging environments in prisons and in with young people who self-harmed and, kind of came to a point where I thought. What I really want is for my clients to be thriving rather than just surviving. And it led me on this path of really interested, becoming interested in what creates kind of high performance in individuals, but then more so in teams and in organizations. And I started working across sectors. Exploring this kind of question around how do, how do teams work well together? How do people work well together? then came across. Somebody named David Webster and David Heads Up Center for Teams, and he had been doing a lot of research into what creates high performance teams. And he created this model called the Team Framework. And when I came across it and started doing work with David, it really resonated for me about what are the kind of key components that creates. High performance teams that it kind of encapsulated what I had been gathering through the work that I'd been doing And so that's how I've come into this work that I do. And currently it's a real passion of mine to think about how teams at the core of organizations help to create. Healthy organizations, that connection between teams, within teams. Across teams and within organizations

Jimmy:

Think that last bit especially is why I find this such an exciting subject, because it's so fundamental to the success at work of individuals, of teams, of business units, of a whole organizations, and if you can figure out how people work together effectively to get great results, that's almost like the holy grail. I'm not that I'm putting any pressure on you and I to tell us the answer, but There you go.

James:

Well, I go a bit more than that actually,

Jimmy:

It's more than the Holy Grail, James.

James:

More than holy. Yeah, because,

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

of the organizations I've worked in, they've been hell bent and worrying about high performing individuals, but actually that quite often destroys teamwork. So yeah, it is all about collaboration and cooperation. I think that's the, the key to it all.

Elana :

and I think, I mean, we'll talk about this when we explore the, the model in a little bit more detail, but it's the interplay between those two things. What creates environments for individuals to be high performing individuals is often totally connected in with what creates high performing teams, but often the systems and processes that are in place. towards high performing individuals, which then, as you say, James can often what's

James:

Yeah, cancer protective.

Elana :

teams and organizations.

Jimmy:

James'. Favorite thing on any of the episodes we do is if there's a model, he's happy, he's an analyst.

James:

credibility.

Elana :

So, yeah, I mean, I have to say, I think that was one of the things that I was really drawn to when I worked with David was that it wasn't just, I mean, it wasn't just that he had done the research. It wasn't just that he had, many years of experience. Equally, I had done a lot of reading. I had done a lot of, had a lot of experience, but what was really helpful was how he brought it together into this model that really kind of made sense of things and it's simple enough to really make sense of things, and yet at the same time, it's got a lot of depth.

Jimmy:

I take the piss out of James a lot for liking his models and stuff, but actually on this subject, I think that that what you're saying is spot on. Because if I think back to my career. And I probably have been part of high performing teams at times, and I've probably led high performing teams, but none of that was conscious. I always knew it was something that I wanted to be doing or should be doing because of the, the performance and the enjoyment that you can get out of that being the reality. But in terms of consciously, how do I do it? I think for me it was more luck than judgment. So, I think it's fantastic Elana, that you can share with us actually a structure that can enable people to think through how they create it intentionally rather than just being lucky like I was.

Elana :

Yeah, and I think, Jimmy, what you're saying is often the case when we go in and work with organizations is that people are doing something intuitively and they say, oh yeah, in, in my last team. This worked, and I'm not quite sure why it doesn't work here because I think I was doing the same thing, but the, the collection of factors in their last team might have been different because it wasn't being done consciously paying attention to particular things. Sometimes it emerges and sometimes it doesn't. And I think bringing conscious practice, and you'll see part of the, the model really talks to that conscious practice that needs to happen in order to be able to create high performing teams.

Jimmy:

Well now we've said we are going to share the holy Grail of high performing teams and a model that. Are are excited by pressure.

Elana :

Right. No pressure at all. Sure. So, its core it, it has the concept of teamship, and really that is about the, what are the kind of skills and processes that need to be in place and need to help a team to be able to form to build towards a common goal. So at its core, it's the idea of teamship. Around that are three core components, and they are needing to be very clear on what's the outcome you're seeking as a team? And what you'll notice for each of these is a, is a key question

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Elana :

as a team and as team members, you need to be responding to. So the first one is what's the outcome? What are we trying to achieve together? Second one is action, and this is kind of what are the behaviors and habits and practices that we need to do in order to be able to achieve that outcome? And the third one is mindset. This is often the piece that I think has historically been less people have paid less attention to, what are the beliefs and assumptions that we need to be holding about ourselves as members of a team, about our team? What are we here for is a key question under the mindset piece. What's our purpose? What's our unique contribution? so round that, to create teamship, we need to have be clear on our outcome. We need to be clear on the actions that we take and the habits and practices that we need to be putting in place and the mindset that we need to be holding the beliefs and assumptions that we are holding. And then on the outside surrounding that two more components and those are learning rhythm. And team leadership and in the learning rhythm space at its, at its core, it's the idea of high performing teams take time to notice not just what they're doing. most teams have an operational rhythm, but to notice how they're doing what they're doing and paying attention to that. So that's your learning rhythm. And the key question is what does the team need to learn in order to be creating sustainable performance? then the bottom part is team leadership. And this refers not only to attention if you are leading a team, but how do you take up a leadership within a team? So that's the kind of. Team leadership, how do we hold ourselves and others accountable in terms of how we leading collectively, individually, and the leader and its team?

Jimmy:

Alana, and that's a, a really a great description of it. Is there a link that we can put in the show notes to the visual of this?

Elana :

Yes, I we can, I can send

Jimmy:

think that, that you described really nicely, but then people can have a look at it if they, if they wanna see it visually. So.

Elana :

totally.

James:

before we go into the detail of the model, so you said it was based on research, so how did they come about the model?

Elana :

So David in collaboration with

James:

Yeah.

Elana :

Researched it across a number of different organizations, there's a, an assessment tool that goes alongside this, which is great because there. It asks key questions along these different parameters, which enables teams to get a really clear picture of their teams. And so he did both quantitative and qualitative research across a number of different organizations, and then pulled that together to identify what are the key components of high performing teams. So it's based on both qualitative and quantitative data.

Jimmy:

I think for me, one of the tests of a, a good model is if when somebody describes it to you, you sort of find yourself nodding as if like, yeah, I can say that makes sense. They're not always like, oh my God, I never thought that that's, for.

Elana :

Yeah.

Jimmy:

'cause we,'cause actually the reality is, there's been a few times I think I've worked in or led high performing teams. But the reality is we've all got some experience of this, haven't we?'cause we all work in a team and it works well or it doesn't work well.

Elana :

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's the thing that I'm really of curious about when I have conversations with people about high performance teams is exactly to that point, Jimmy. We've all got a lived experience of what does it feel like when you're in a high performance team and what does it feel like when you're not?

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Elana :

You know, and so sometimes the question is asked to me kind of, why, why do we need high performance teams? The the initial answer is, well, when you've been in one, has it felt? When you haven't been in one, how has it felt? And there's lots of other good reasons I can give for why we need

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Elana :

teams, but often it's like the felt feeling of how it feels to be in a high performance team is kind of gives you the answer about why they're

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Elana :

if you know what I mean.

Jimmy:

Yeah. And, you spend a third of your life at work, so working in an environment that feels good to work in, that's, that's key. Apart from the fact that, the reality is you get better. Outcomes, better delivery, better performance from these teams.

Elana :

You also get, you know, things like there's lower levels of turnover, which means that you, you're not losing organizational knowledge. You're not having to, the cost of, of hiring isn't there. There's greater levels of innovation in high performing teams and in our world that's quite VUCA and people are needing to adapt and to innovate. Actually having high performance teams creates greater levels of innovation. It has lower levels of conflict or it has healthy conflict, higher levels of trust. So all of these things are as a result of people working together more cohesively in in teams.

Speaker 2:

Our podcast is all about helping people, teams, and organizations perform better and enjoy work more. I get as far as to say that we believe that everyone and every team has the potential to transform their performance by optimizing what they currently do. So if you'd like to discuss how we can help you transform your performance, then get in touch or maybe check out our website. We also do speaking events, mentoring advice, work as well.

Jimmy:

James, what's your experience of. Working in or leading high performing teams.

James:

Well, I was just, sorry. Experience a question. Do we know when we're in a high performing team? So I've worked, so I've known that when I've worked in the dreadful team, which isn't high performing, but I've worked in teams, which I've really enjoyed working in'cause the people really got on. But that doesn't necessarily mean that there was a high performing team. And so I wonder whether or not we really know when we're in a high performing team or not.

Elana :

I think that's a really great question, James, because it, links in with the first air, the first components of the model around outcomes because there, it talks about outcomes as having kind of four components to it. So one is results. The outward facing outcome. So are we hitting the results? But then often organizations have historically stopped on that point. So if we are hitting our

James:

that's good.

Elana :

got our, we, that's it. We, we are good. But what's what David talks about and what we explore is the idea that it's not just results, it's also meaning enjoyment and learning. And so actually high performance teams are just spaces where you feel nice, where it's a sense of enjoyment. They're also spaces where you are hitting results, where you have a sense of meaning of purpose individually and collectively, and where you are learning. They're often organizations that I'll go into where it's, it's really nice, it's comfortable, it's a nice place to work, often they're low levels of accountability because there isn't the stretch, there isn't the challenge, It's a nice place to work, but it's not actually hitting any results. That's why I said there's like the complexity or the depth of understanding that when we talk about outcome, we are not just saying, what do we wanna achieve together in results, but how do we want to be learning together, enjoying the work that we do?'cause equally, they're teams that are hitting great results and the levels of burnout are sky high.

James:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Elana :

And so we wouldn't call that high performing teams either.

Jimmy:

Your point around it's more than just, it feels nice to be here. Because yes, it feels nice, and I've worked in teams that felt nice and everyone got along and everything, but they didn't actually achieve a lot. It's a little bit like high engagement, high engagement's great, but if it doesn't translate through to better outcomes, it's not really that valuable. But yeah, I think the we've got into, well, we've got into the detail of the model already. So you've, you've talked to the outcome and certainly having purpose is something that we always. Talk about on this podcast regularly, the importance of purpose to individuals, to teams, and to organizations.

James:

So what you've talked about there is results hang on, sorry. enjoyment and learning. But yeah, so what, meaning, go on. Could you just expand on meaning a wee bit?

Elana :

In some ways what Jimmy's just been referring to is that sense of purpose. It's like, is am I getting meaning from this work that I do? I'm watching a great piece on, on Netflix called Catastrophe, there's a guy and he's working for a company and it's literally draining his soul and he's,

James:

don't.

Elana :

So, he's exactly, and he's, you know, he's earning great money. He's doing really good work. He's, but it is totally draining his soul and it reaches a point and he says, I just can't do this anymore. I'm leaving this high paying job, because. It's just draining my soul. that's the piece around meaning, it's like it needs to feel like you get up in the morning feeling like, okay, beyond just earning a paycheck, I'm learning something. I'm enjoying this, but I'm also getting a sense of, of meaning from the work that I do.

Jimmy:

I think that's a great takeaway I, I often would've thought about high performing teams from that single dimension of results. I. Getting high results and actually thinking about the kind of meaning and enjoyment and learning as well. A great question to consider, So that's the, the first part, the second bit I think you said was, was action.

Elana :

Yeah.

Jimmy:

So what's, that, because, I'd have thought, well, that's just about, doing lots of stuff?

Elana :

So it is partly it's about what are the actions we need to do in order to be able to achieve that outcome. But it's deeper than that. It's how do we need to act? How do we need to behave as a team in order to be able to reach those outcomes? Remembering that those outcomes are not just. Results. And so this is often divided into what are the behaviors or habits we need to develop as a team. And that could be, how we make decisions, how we manage conflict, all of that. It's also what are the processes and rituals that we need to put in place to be effective. So, and that could be what are the, our budget setting processes, our meetings, our reward system. So it is about the actions, like, you know, what are our objectives But it's also about what are the behaviors we need to manifest as a team, ways of working. Is often the other way of talking about it. So what are the ways of working that will enable us as a team to work together, to surface and deal with conflict? To give each other feedback to, have real clarity of our role individually and collectively. So this area is more than just the things we do. It's how we act and what processes are in place to support us on that.

Jimmy:

So I think it sounds like they're, they're in two groups. There's the directly, I need to take this action to get this, this result. And also how I go about working and how I do things. That also underpins the, the outcomes that you want to get. But are they the actions, both of those, they're anchored in the outcomes that you've laid out at the start. So for the, for the sake of the outcomes that you've laid out, what are the, the direct actions I need to take and what are the ways of doing things that will help me get towards those outcomes? Is that right?

Elana :

exactly. So it's absolutely in service of the outcomes. And, and often what we'll see is that people are very busy. They're doing lots of stuff. They're taking lots of actions, but they're not necessarily achieving what they need to achieve the outcomes they need to achieve because there isn't a connection between doing lots of stuff and. Are we clear on our outcomes? And often that's why I say there's connection between these.'cause often when I go into work in teams and they, they're all really busy and they're attending loads of meetings, but they're not actually achieving anything. And that's either because they're not clear and aligned on what they need to achieve, or there are other things that are going on. So, for example, people attend loads of meetings. actually they don't totally trust their colleagues or their people in their, in their teams below them to, to deliver on what needs to be delivered. So they attend all the meetings because they either don't trust them or they're a bit nervous that they'll miss out on something or so we often can see that Actions can be driven by unconscious behaviors that don't actually support the team doing what it needs to do.

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James:

So can you give us some examples of things you would say were good? You talked about sort of routines and processes or habits. What would, what sort of things would you think are good in a team?

Elana :

So, for example, I think there's something about an alignment between what you're wanting to drive and the behaviors and processes. So, for example worked with a team that were very keen on collaboration. Everything was around collaboration, and yet everybody got individual. Bonus bonuses depending on their individual delivery. And so the processes and systems in place drove individual achievements. Although what the, the outcome the team were hoping for was collaboration and collective working. And so when they shifted the bonus system to be around collective working. The team worked collectively together, so it drove the behaviors that they were wanting because the systems and processes aligned with what the outcome they were trying to achieve.

James:

I like that example. We could do an episode on that one, Jimmy. I.

Jimmy:

So excited about that, James' Pet Subjects. So.

James:

But then presumably it's not just about what the team are putting in processes and systems, it's also about taking out the ones which don't serve.

Elana :

Totally, totally. So we've got a colleague that uses this term, stop the stupid. And his thing is if

James:

I'd have been outta a job if you'd done that.

Elana :

I mean

James:

I was I supposed to make a career? Yeah, go on.

Elana :

His thing is if you'd notice you're starting to do loads of workarounds, it's a kind of. Hang on a second. Let's pause and notice what's, what we might need to be doing differently and stopping. And so the absolutely is about what we should be doing and what we should not be doing. And this is where things like prioritization become really key. How we prioritizing, what are we prioritizing? You know, the, the kind of famous saying, if if everything's a priority, then nothing's a priority. And, and this is where I know we, we'll segue in a moment into mindset, but this is where the connection between actions and mindsets are really key. Because one will, the assumptions that we hold and the beliefs that we hold will drive, as Edgar Chein would say, the assumptions and beliefs will drive behaviors. So the connection between how we think about things. And see our purpose and how we take up our actions will be completely connected.

Jimmy:

Just, just before we get onto mindset, Alana, one thing I was talking to someone about the other day. You were saying about a actions and ways of working that don't help organizations, and one thing I've noticed in the recent years of stepping outside of a corporate environment is when you're in. A corporate environment, meetings and busyness are the are the opium of corporates, it is just, we go through loads of meetings. How many meetings have I done? How busy am I? Look how important I'm,'cause I'm so busy, I, I contributing loads.'cause I've went to 10 meetings today. And actually when you step out of that, you realize that work gets done outside of that. The more meetings you put in, the more busy you make, everyone the less focused on actually delivering the outcomes that you want. You actually are, but you're so caught up on that drug that you don't see it.

Elana :

Absolutely. And I think that that in, I mean, in some ways that is in the action space, but that really also is connected to the mindset space because it's, it's what are the assumptions we hold about? Well, if I'm very busy and I'm in lots of meetings, that must mean I'm really important and I'm really busy because I, I, I mean, I just, I don't have a moment to think If we shift our assumption especially at, at higher levels of leadership. So I was coaching a chief exec and I said to them, so I'm curious, what are you reading at the moment? they looked at me and they were like, I'm sorry, Lana, but you just, you just don't understand my life. Like I, I don't have time to read. And I was like, but you do realize that actually that is your job. Your job. I'm not meaning, what novel are you reading? I'm meaning at a chief exec level, your job is to scan the horizon to understand what's emerging, to understand what's coming up in, in your own field. And in order to do that, you do need to be reading. So it's not a, a nice to have, it's a core part of your job. And actually that's about the assumptions that we are holding that then drive the behavior.

James:

That's really interesting. Well, I worked with a guy for a while and he used to schedule into his diary every morning, nine till 10 at a block in which said thinking time.

Elana :

Yeah.

James:

And everybody took the piss mercilessly. Yeah. So the whole sort of, the organization rejected it, but I'm reflection it was that exactly the right thing to do.

Elana :

Totally. Absolutely. And I think that even, and we'll talk about this when we come to Learning Rhythm, the obsessive focus on what we do rather than on how we do it in organizations. It's now become kind of the, the go-to quotes of, you know, culture eat strategy for breakfast. And I think still in many organizations, it's like, if we just have the perfect strategy, it'll all be

James:

Yeah.

Elana :

Which of course we know is never the

James:

Yeah.

Jimmy:

Well, Alana, you've segued us very nicely a couple of times to mindset. So should we move on to the final of those core elements?

Elana :

Sure. So mindset really, as I say, is about the kind of beliefs and assumptions that we hold, it's not just the belief and assumptions that we hold about our job or about our ways of working. It's also the fundamental beliefs and assumptions about what we are here to, to do like our core meaning or purpose. And I think, Jimmy, you spoke about that earlier about the importance of purpose. And in this model that sits here in mindset, it's like, what do we see our purpose as a team? What's our unique contribution is different to other teams? Because often when we work with people, they say, well, we've got an organizational purpose. Like great. And what's your purpose as a team in service of that organizational purpose?

James:

Right.

Elana :

different, and I think often the thing that differentiates high performing teams is that they spend time being really clear on what are they here? To, like, what are they here to do? What's their purpose and what are the assumptions and beliefs that are going to support them to deliver on that purpose in service of that outcome that they've identified and therefore what actions they need to be taking.

James:

Can you gimme some examples? What would Yeah. Bring it to life a wee bit.

Elana :

So, I think the one that I, that feels often easy to to talk about is that of conflict. what are the beliefs or assumptions we hold about conflict? So if we hold the assumption that conflict is scary, is really challenging, is going to destroy our relationships. If those are the assumptions we hold, the likelihood is when somebody comes up to you and says, look, we need to have a difficult conversation. What gets triggered is this is gonna be conflictual. This is gonna be really difficult. I'm going to avoid this. I'm running, I, I'm definitely too busy today for this conversation. Whereas if we hold an assumption that in our team, conflict is our greatest resource. We, we see conflict as a way of bringing out differences. And, and now we're not having a difficult conversation or a conflict conversation. We are having an essential conversation. And language creates our reality and it is really important especially in the, in the mindset space. And if you say, actually, we are coming in to have an essential conversation. Is essential because it, it builds our relationship, it builds trust, it connects when we're having one of those conversations, if the assumption I'm coming in with is together, we need to have this conversation because it's essential for delivering on our outcome. come in with different energy, a different mindset, that then creates a different reality in What the kinds of conversations we have and more importantly, the kinds of conversations we avoid because I think often we avoid the difficult conversations and then what happens is we find that the results suffer or the, not because we haven't had the conversation early on. Because our assumption is that it's gonna be scary and therefore we avoid it.

Jimmy:

Just one. When I, I heard a talk once from one of the British Olympic rowers, and he was saying that they were very aligned on, getting a gold medal and that's what their focus was. They aligned all of their actions towards that. And when they had conflict in the team, the thing that they always thought about is. What's this conflict in service of? If it's in service of getting our gold medal, great happy days. To your point, it's then an essential conversation to have. If it's not in service of getting our Olympic gold medal, then it's, not productive and therefore it's not conversation that's worth having.

James:

But then these things all tie together'cause you can't have that conversation of course, unless you're really clear about the outcome that he wants. So the whole thing

Jimmy:

Yeah.

James:

reinforces it.

Elana :

Absolutely. And I think that that's the thing for me, going back to the beginning of our conversation about kind of the, the power of a good model is that I think what I found really helpful about the model when I came across it is that is the interplay is the one. Part connects to the other part. If you want to have really good outcomes, you need to be really aligned on the beliefs and the assumptions and be able to hold some of your assumptions. We talk about holding assumptions lighter,, being able to challenge each other's assumptions and that needs environments of trust. And that's kind of built up. Through having good conversations and how we build those up along with people doing what they say they're going to do, that also helps to build trust. If I know that if I say to you, oh, James, I need that delivered on Thursday, and you say, yes, of course, and we get to Thursday, that, that it's delivered. That helps to build the trust between

James:

Yeah,

Elana :

so it's a connection between those actions and that mindset.

Jimmy:

Alana, we've talked about the importance of high performing teams and. What it feels like and what you can achieve. And you talked about that concept of teamship and then the three core elements to getting that and their interconnectedness. The outcomes that you're trying to get to, the actions you take and the mindset that you hold. But that's only one part of the model. But like all good cliffhangers, we are going to save the second part of the model for the next episode with you. So, thank you Alana, and we'll be back with Alana to talk more about high performing teams and to talk about team leadership and team learning. So thanks everyone.

James:

Super. Thank you very much.

Elana :

Great. Thanks guys.

Speaker 6:

We cover a whole host of topics on this podcast from purpose to corporate jargon, but always focused on one thing, getting the job done well, easier said than done. So if you've got. Unhappy customers or employees, bosses or regulators breathing down your neck. If your backlogs are outta control and your costs are spiraling and that big IT transformation project that you've been promised, just keeps failing to deliver, we can help. If you need to improve your performance, your team's performance, or your organizations, get in touch at Jimmy at@jobdonewell.com orJames@jobdonewell.com.

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James Lawther

Co-host
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Jimmy Barber

Co-host
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Elana Friedman

Guest