A Job Done Well - Making Work Better

Understand Your Values: Are You Clashing With the Machine?

• Jimmy Barber, James Lawther • Season 3 • Episode 15

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Ever felt like you’re swimming against the tide at work, but can’t quite put your finger on why? Or maybe you’ve said “yes” to something only to regret it later, wondering why you ignored that gut feeling? Welcome to the world of values—the invisible compass that shapes your decisions, reactions, and even your stress levels. In this episode of A Job Done Well, James and Jimmy are joined by Dr. Jackie Le Fèvre, a values specialist with a PhD in the subject (yes, really), to peel back the layers on what values actually are, why they matter, and how understanding them can transform your work life.

Jackie, who started her career as a zoologist before diving into the psychology of human behaviour, breaks down how values act as emotional shortcuts—helping us navigate a world overflowing with information, demands, and corporate nonsense. They’re not just abstract ideas; they’re the lens through which we see the world, the filter that tells us what’s worth our energy and what’s not. And here’s the kicker: when we ignore them, we’re not just unhappy—we’re stressed, drained, and even physically unwell. Ever put off a simple task because it felt like scraping your nails on a chalkboard? That’s your values talking.

But it’s not all doom and gloom. Jackie shares how becoming conscious of your values can turn conflict into clarity, self-doubt into self-compassion, and even help you reframe tasks you’d rather avoid (yes, James, that includes posting videos on LinkedIn). From journaling to noticing what makes your heart sing—or sink—she offers practical ways to uncover what truly matters to you.

So if you’re tired of feeling like a cog in someone else’s machine, or just want to understand why you react the way you do, this episode is your wake-up call. Values aren’t just for corporate mission statements—they’re your secret weapon for surviving (and thriving) in the workplace.

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Speaker 3:

Hello, I'm James. Hi, I'm Jimmy and welcome to a Job Done Well, the podcast that helps you improve your performance enjoyment at work.

James:

Good afternoon. How are you?

Jimmy:

I am very well, James. How are you?

James:

I'm doing fabulously. Thank you? very much. Although the weather is miserable out there. Let's talk about the murder. I'm English, I can't help

Jimmy:

Well, actually James, we should point out that we're not doing our weekly updates because we over talk about the weather, your Volvo, or the misery of sporting Nottingham Forest. So

James:

The

Jimmy:

we're.

James:

important topics in the world.

Jimmy:

To us, but no one else. So to go straight into it, James, what are we talking about today?

James:

Well, today we're having a conversation about values. I went to a conference the other day and Lady called Jackie Lafe, presented a fascinating conversation about values, so I managed to sweet talk her into joining us. So, welcome to the podcast Jackie.

Jackie:

Thank you very much indeed. Absolutely delight to be here.

Jimmy:

Well, Jackie, if James found something fascinating and he was trying to sweet talk here, I'm worried about, I'm worried about that on a number of levels. James isn't known for sweet talking, but we have,

Jackie:

professional. I reassure

Jimmy:

no. I absolutely positive it was. But we did a previous episode on values, but James was so impressed by your take on values that we are going to revisit the subject'cause I hate to say, but there's a lot of value in understanding and using your values.

James:

Very good.

Jackie:

Is there Absolutely is.

James:

I'd also like to point out the other reason I've invited Jackie Jimmy is'cause like me, Jackie is an intellectual. Jackie has got PhD in values. I do believe

Jimmy:

Really,

Jackie:

I do indeed. Yes.

James:

even.

Jimmy:

That's just next level, James. I don't even wanna talk to you now. I don't. Who are you, James? Like we've got a doctor of values. That's it.

jimmy-_2_01-13-2026_163359:

so Jackie, apart from being doctor values, tell us a bit about yourself.

jackie-le-fevre--she-her-_2_01-13-2026_163358:

Well, I started out professionally as a zoologist. I studied animal behavior and evolutionary biology. I spent a couple of years after graduating reintroducing chimpanzees to the wild.

jimmy-_2_01-13-2026_163359:

Oh, wow.

jackie-le-fevre--she-her-_2_01-13-2026_163358:

worked in nature conservation in the uk for quite a few years before going into broader voluntary community sector work. And then in 2004, I set up my business magma effect. So I have been a freelance values specialist ever since then. And as you say. I took my nerdism to new heights in 2020 and studied the PhD. So I looked specifically at conscious connection to values, the benefits that people report from that, and how it connects to wellbeing.

jimmy-_2_01-13-2026_163359:

Well, thank you for joining us today.

James:

So how about, I start with a very simple question then, Jackie. What are values.

Jackie:

values. are ideas. At their simplest level, that's what they are. But values are emotionally rich And energy laden ideas. They are ideas about things that matter. Now you've, we'll have probably heard the i the phrase core values or priority values or sacred values, those sorts of things. are the values which matter so much. They are part of who we think we are. So they're closely interwoven with identity. And these are the ones that determine what it means to be true to self. Who am I in this situation? What matters most? So what shall I do next? So they are drivers of decisions. They are drivers of behavior. They're drivers of action and attitude. So they're powerful, rich energy lane ideas.

James:

And presumably, therefore, we all have them.

Jackie:

all have them. It's part of what it is to be human. So values are universal. we all have them. is the bit that I love very much. We also each have our unique, distinctive pattern of values. It's almost like values are part of our sense of self. DNA. So whilst the three of us may share some values, I think we're all interested in learning, for example, in discovery, in insight, that kind of thing.'cause why else would you do a podcast? Probably all got a value. Also, somewhere around communication and sharing insights with people we can share some values, but we will also have values that are unique to us. And nobody else has them. So whilst they're universal And we can all talk about them'cause it's part of who all of us are, we are each unique that there's no rights or wrongs. Values just are what they are.

Jimmy:

And Jackie, I said at the outset, there's a, huge amount of value in understanding your values, but what are the benefits of understanding your values and how do you, how would you use that information, that knowledge?

Jackie:

So our values, everybody's got them in a steady state. They're in our unconscious, so they are

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Jackie:

level of awareness, and that's where they do their very important job. But what we are increasingly seeing from research is that when we are conscious of them, so we know what they look like, what they sound like, what they mean to us, we can actually deliberately use them in our decision making. We can deliberately use them to make sense of a situation. I give you an example of what I

Jimmy:

Yep.

Jackie:

that. A few years ago now, I was contacted by a guy who was asked to put together a conference and he contacted me and he said, I've been asked to ask you to come down and do a keynote in the afternoon to the Voluntary Community Sector Public Sector Partnership Conference. Now, I have really high priority value around transformative communication. That means I love going out, sharing the stuff that I've learned in ways that make it useful to other people. So, of course my transformative communication value is going, yay, let's do this. I have learned though that sometimes if I allow that value to drive the bus, I say yes to things I should say no to because there's something else going on that wasn't a good fit for who I am. So I have learned, and I said to him. That's a lovely thing. What I got? Free choice on the topic or is there a title or what? And he said, yes, there's a title. I said, oh, what's the title? And he said, the modernization of the voluntary and community sector. And I went, I also have high priority value personal authority. And about speaking my truth. I tell it as it is, as I know it to be.

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Jackie:

And my personal authority value has gone, oh, I don't like that. The title implies modernization is a good thing and is also required, that the voluntary community, Sumter is somehow flawed. Its current state, and I don't agree with any of those things, so I can't talk to that. Transformative communication is going say yes. So yes, pastoral authority is saying say no. this is one of the places they're really powerful. If you're on the horns of a dilemma, I'm feeling pushed and pulled at the same time. can look, I could look at that and I go, right? So I went back to him and I went, listen, I am available on the date. I'm willing to come and talk. need to know what is most important. Is it most important that you have me talking about something? Or is it most important that you have modernization of the voluntary community sector?'cause you can't have both. And he went, well, why not? I said,'cause I can't talk to that title. And went, well, I don't see why not. I said, I know, but you don't need to know that. I'm just letting you know I can't come and talk to that. He said, I said, go ask the person who's asked you to phone me, say what's the most important. So he then came back half an hour later and he went, I asked them, he said, it's mostly important we have Jackie because she's really quite funny and people don't mind listening to her. Excellent. In which case, my title is Modern Challenges Facing the Voluntary and Community Sector, and he went. That's no different. And I thought for me, there's a world of difference. I could not have identified that tension

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Jackie:

that tension in that way had I not had a working knowledge of my values. Does that make sense?

Jimmy:

Yeah. Great example. Yeah.

James:

But, so can I just back up on then, so that's two. Points going through my mind after that then, so first of all is you are very explicit about what your values are. I probably am not. So I suppose the question is how well do we know our values? And in the interest of asking two questions at once, which you really shouldn't do, but I'm going to anyway. Why the hell do we have values anyway? How do they help us? So let's go with that one first. How do they help us? Why do we have values?

Jackie:

So my background is in zoology, originally, animal behavior, evolutionary biology, and if we look at human beings as animals.

James:

Sorry, can, I just cut across? Jackie, I just have to point out, Jimmy, you do realize that I'm an evolutionary biologist as well. I bet you were expecting to have two evolutionary biologists on this call at the

Jimmy:

I can safely say that's never happened to me in my life. And I don't, I'm not, I don't expect it to happen Again.

James:

Yeah, I

Jimmy:

I'm honored.

James:

Yeah, I know all about, in theory not practice. bad joke.

Jackie:

And moving on.

Jimmy:

Thank you, Jackie.

Speaker 4:

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Speaker 4:

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Jackie:

As human beings, we are social creatures and we are long-lived social creatures. Because we are long-lived and social, rely a lot more on learning than on instinct, because instinct is fine. If you're only gonna live for three or four summers, you don't need to know very much. But if you are gonna live for 30, 40, 50 years, the world is gonna change around you. And if you are social, the community is going to change around you as well. if you are social, there are a lot of moving parts in your world you cannot control because they are other individuals thinking and doing their own stuff. we need as much of our prefrontal cortex, neocortex much of our conscious bandwidth as possible to try and decipher the unpredictable and the ambiguous. We can't use that for everything that there is. So we need some rules of thumb. We need some heuristics. So inside the unconscious part of the brain, there is a mental model of the world. There are things we believe, what are we highly certain about and the things that matter most to us. So what is it that we need to pay attention to? And the lens of our values, what matters most. We'll notice stuff that goes on and we'll decide what it means to us, and that will then help us act alignment with who we are. But all of that stuff needs to happen super, super quick. We can't think about it. So it's happening unconsciously. So that is the natural job of our beliefs and values. If we were living a hundred thousand years ago, that would be fine because the world was not particularly big and not particularly complex, so we didn't have big groups of people we needed to keep track of,

James:

Yeah.

Jackie:

and we didn't have information coming at us at the speed of light. Now that is the case, knowing what our values are us navigate all of that, So they're there to help us navigate our way through life. Without needing to think about absolutely everything. So if I give,

James:

Can I just stop you then, so I've got that straight in my mind? So what you're really saying is we have values because we can use them as a scoring system or a filter, or however you want to put it, but it's our way of. Short, cutting the information that's coming at us and debating or deciding whether it's good or bad for us

Jackie:

whether it's, yeah, whether it's appropriate to us or not appropriate to us, really simple. Example. A belief I am 95% certain what the three of us share is that when you go to work, you wear clothes. I don't think any of us half an hour ago thought, oh, gotta get ready for that post podcast. Shall I go naked or not? That wasn't part of the question. I think it was that's a belief. Highly certain. Even during COVID from the waist up, it was all business. was happening under the table? Nobody else's business, pink, fluffy mules, or whatever it happened to be fine. What we wear is influenced by our values. Who are we today? How do we wanna show up? Are we gonna be booted and suited?'cause we wanna make a really good impression on the people that are watching? Are we gonna dress for comfort because we're gonna be sitting for an hour or so having this conversation? So want to be able to relax into it. What we wear gets influenced by who we're how we want to show up in the moment. So that's the values piece. If we had to get out of bed and go, do I wear clothes or not? If I wear clothes, which clothes do I choose? Do? If we had to do all of that consciously, we'd still be in bed by lunchtime and not dressed.

James:

So it's our way of processing And making decisions.

Jackie:

Absolutely.

James:

Well, two more related questions. So where do my an individual's values come from and how do we know what they are and how do we make them explicit then?

Jackie:

Okay, where do they come from? I think the truth that is we don't really know. There's a lot, we dunno neurologically about how things get laid down within the brain, but the likelihood is. That is a combination of what we have witnessed. So what has been modeled to us by the people in our community? What do our parents model as the way to handle something? What do our teachers model? So in effect, it's the systems that we are part of. The systems display that certain things matter more than other things. And those are the things that get prioritized. And then? we either take them on board And go, yeah, absolutely. For example at say the age of 10, your favorite teacher turns around to you and says, what a lovely piece of work. You were really careful when you wrote that up. I can see that. And we go, oh, attention to detail. That gets me praised. I like that person. I want to be a person that person likes, that can become part of me conscientiousness in how I do what I do. So they're modeled from the systems, but then they can get changed in the light of experience. So if we value something it doesn't work out well for us, we may choose to put it down. If, for example we valued loyalty. And so we went around keeping people's confidences and being really trustworthy and this, that, and the other until somebody actually let us down and stabbed us in the back. With that, we might then go, oh, this loyalty business doesn't always work out, does it? I'm not gonna value that. I'm gonna move over here and instead I'm gonna value something that's more around self protection. And actually, I'm. Cautious. Being cautious rather than trusting

Jimmy:

And I, I take,

Jackie:

doesn't work.

Jimmy:

Jackie, I guess my read on this is it's like a lens that you're looking at the world through that enables you to act and feel and find your way through life, then learned over a period of time, and then they change and develop over a period of time according to experience. And I'm presuming that all of that's done subconsciously.

Jackie:

Yeah, that's all taking place in the unconscious. What's interesting is that we know from studies is that we can actually change our values deliberately as

Jimmy:

Right.

Jackie:

so we can say to ourselves, I keep doing this thing. So maybe I keep being empathetic. I am so empathetic with the people around me that I find it paralyzing because I feel everything that they feel and I just don't know which way to turn in order to be helpful to them. So this is not helping. This kind of empathy is not working for me. What do I want to do instead? I want to move away from this empathy and. Generous instead, I want to be helpful. I wanna be of service, but I wanna do it in a way that doesn't mean that I have to feel all of the pain because that's getting in the way of me actually being helpful and it matters more to me that I'm helpful than I am going through it all with them and with intention. We can shift the lens that we use, the meaning that we make of the thing, and then the choices that we make about how to be next so we can actually shift our values with intention.

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Jimmy:

Back to James's point. So both of us have a set of values that are learned, experienced over time, but we would struggle off the top of our heads to say what they are. So I guess, yes, you can choose with the intention, but presumably the starting point is I have to understand what my values are now. So how do you get an understanding of what your values are?

Jackie:

So the good thing is there is no one right way to do it. There's lots of different ways that you can get in touch with your values. You can do it through journaling. A lot of

Jimmy:

Yep.

Jackie:

journaling. Just writing down, oh, I had a really good time. This was really fantastic. I completely loved it. I was with these people. I was doing this thing, and the thing that made my, heart rate about all of this was this, and this. I'm doing that repeatedly. And then looking at the themes. That will tell you a lot about what it was that really mattered in that moment.

James:

Yeah.

Jackie:

way of doing it which is a fine, but it doesn't get you to necessarily a huge amount of detail, is to just look at words. Literally just look at words and see which words leap out at you. So you could do that just using a newspaper or just using a book or whatever. You could just look at a bunch of words and some of them will pop for you. So you might read a passage about something that went on, and the thing you really notice is when they said, and what was amazing was when this solution re revealed itself this way, you go, oh, okay. So it's solutions. It's that discovery. That's the bit that I really liked in that story. those things, because they're emotionally rich, spark something in us. So you have to notice how you feel. Do you feel pulled towards it or pushed away from it? Two simple, really reflexive questions I suggest to people try is what makes my heart sing. So, when am I so alive? My fingers are fizzing with energy because this I love and I can do this day in, day out, not need sleep, chocolate, or anything. stuff is aligned with your highest priority values. Conversely, think about what makes your heart sink. Think about a time when somebody said. can you, could you possibly do thing for us? And you looked at it and you thought, well, that's an easy thing. more than within my capability. It wouldn't even take particularly long, and I so don't want to do it. My blood is running cold, my feet are turned to ice. That will be like walking through porridge. There is something about that is dishonoring your high priority values. And this is an interesting thing about values, is we can have something really difficult to do, really demanding, it aligns with our high priority values, it is not particularly effortful. It doesn't drain us. can still do it, and then you can have something really easy. Really straightforward, very mechanical. That just wipes us out because there's nothing in it for us in terms of our high priority values. So get in touch with those feelings. When was it glorious? When was it really would rather have just laying down in a darkened room with my head in a box rather than have to do that? So what is that? What's going on there?

James:

But just tell you what I've heard if I've been listening, right? What we're saying is values, everybody's got them and

Jackie:

Yep.

James:

effectively, they are a filter through which you see the world. They define how you respond to things.

Jackie:

They, yes, they influence and shape how you would actually respond to things.

James:

So therefore understanding what my values are is probably a very powerful thing to do if I don't, I can find myself conflicted and know I'm not wanna know where I'm conflicted.

Jackie:

Yes. When we do things that do not align with our high priority values, we are more vulnerable to stress. We produce more cortisol and more noradrenaline, and in producing more cortisol and more noradrenaline, we actually undermine our immune systems. So we are actually very likely to become ill if we persistently dishonor our values. I.

James:

And is that so? So let me give you an example'cause it's just one of the jobs I have had to do today is I'm supposed to post some videos on LinkedIn, It's not a big job. It takes oh three minutes. But I hate doing it. Why do I hate doing it? I have, let's not go into it too much, but I have a deep thing about self-promotion. I really don't feel very comfortable about it. So I hate doing it, and therefore I don't do what is a very easy job. But is that because it's not a value or is it almost like it's an anti value, if that makes sense. So are

Jackie:

So

James:

yeah.

Jackie:

You may have a value that's around humility. It's about not putting myself forward, not seeking people's attention for its own sake. So it's an absence of, say, a status value, a prestige value and image value. It's an absence of those values rather than an anti value. So one of the things that I work with people on is, okay, so if that's not floating my boat, but I've still gotta do it, what is there in my values framework that I can then tie that to that will feel more like me? So if instead you look at the video and you go, yeah. but James, why are you putting this video out? You are not putting this video out in order to make out that you are. The next Allen Sugar. That's not what we're trying to do here. What we're trying to do here, we're trying to be helpful. We're trying to produce targeted material that's good quality, that's gonna be useful to people and is not AI slop. So in that way, it makes the world better. Why would I not post that?

James:

Okay, so, but the long and short of this is being explicit about what your values are is a very sensible thing to do because it helps you understand the way you behave and show up in the world.

Jackie:

Absolutely. And what one of the things, the themes that came out of my PhD research, which was looking at conscious connection to values and what are the benefits of it and how do people experience it, was that people reported that they actually had greater capacity for self-compassion. And they knew what their values were. They could be kinder to themselves, so they could say to themselves, I should have put out four videos this morning, and I didn't, and I know why I didn't, and wasn't great, But nevermind, I get it. will do it tomorrow. And you could be forgiving of yourself. And that again, is very positive for your mental health. To be able to forgive ourselves.

Jimmy:

but also Jackie, I think I understand my values that explains why I'm behaving or feeling a certain way about certain things. I can be kind to myself, but also then. I can find ways around that. So to your point about James posting videos, just thinking, this is self-promotion, I can't do it. He's never going to do it. So he can be kind to himself, but he's never gonna do it. Whereas, to your point, which is I'm posting these videos to help others. That is in line with his values of desiring to help others and share knowledge. So therefore, that will make the task easier to do because he changes how he thinks about that task.

Jackie:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's where you might find if you were working with a coach, they'd talk about reframing.

Jimmy:

Yeah.

Jackie:

frame it like this, do frame it like that, but it is that understanding of the particular driver. That is causing the task to look and feel like that rather than look and feel like that, so that you can switch your attention.\

james_3_01-13-2026_165506:

So thank you for that, Jackie. That was wonderful. If people would like to find out more, the best place to look?

jackie-le-fevre--she-her-_3_01-13-2026_165506:

I've got a LinkedIn profile, so please do look me up. And if you look at that profile, one of the things you'll see is that I've pinned a number of posts high up on the profile and they're answers to questions, the kinds of questions I get asked, can my values change and then I explain that they can, or does it matter if my values are different to other people's? Well, no, not really. This is why. So simple answers to simple questions, the ones I've been asked most in my 20 years of working with values are there. And also I'd say if you've got a question that you think should be answered that I haven't answered yet, let me know and I'll have a go at writing you an answer.

james_3_01-13-2026_165506:

Super. Thank you very much.

james_4_01-13-2026_165826:

So we had a fascinating conversation with Jackie about values. However there was no there was no bullshit. We just kept on going. So it well exceeded our aim of trying to get to a 30 minute episode. So we decided to cut in half. About individual values, and then we'll move on and talk about team and organizational values in the next episode

jimmy-_4_01-13-2026_165827:

What James means to say is, Jackie had so much fascinating stuff to say. We've made two episodes out of it. You've just heard episode one, get ready for episode two in a couple of weeks.

Speaker:

We cover a whole host of topics on this podcast

Speaker 2:

from purpose to corporate jargon,

Speaker:

but always focused on one thing, getting the job done well,

Speaker 2:

easier said than done. So if you've got. Unhappy customers or employees, bosses or regulators breathing down your neck.

Speaker:

If your backlogs are outta control and your costs are spiraling and that big IT transformation project that you've been promised, just keeps failing to deliver,

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we can help. If you need to improve your performance, your team's performance, or your organizations, get in touch at Jimmy at@jobdonewell.com orJames@jobdonewell.com.

Head Shot

James Lawther

Co-host
Head Shot

Jimmy Barber

Co-host
Head Shot

Jackie Le Fèvre

Guest