The First Ever Podcastathon: Discover Good Grief and Keep a Child Smiling

As we get older, volunteering for life satisfaction is a great reward, as is travel. But when we lose a companion, grief may stop us in our tracks.  Good Grief, supporting kids whose parents have died is now the leading organization for grieving families. The Ageless Traveler is on a quest to help fund the mission. If you need some life inspiration, wait till you hear the amazing stories from these Good Grief volunteers on this week's Ageless Traveler podcast. And…fair warning…I ask for donations, and I know you will be moved to donate, no matter how large or small; you help make a child who was thrown for a loop too early in life happier. Text donations at: "agewise" to 50155 and click this link to donate online. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hello, hello, hello. This is Adrienne Bergen. This is The Ageless Traveler. And you know, I've been telling you that we're going to have a special show. And you're going to see in our newsletter that this is a special show. But it is, it's part of a podcastathon. And it's a podcastathon that we're getting together with several wonderful podcasts, all women-led, by the way, and all women of a certain age, to promote a particular organization. And that organization is called Good Grief. It's an organization that I have been a volunteer with for over five years. It is something that's been in my heart. Now, its purpose is to deal with childhood grief, but also the grief of the parents and the grandparents. And then it has exploded because grief is something that is part of everyone's life. You can even see it on cave paintings. It is part of the human experience. And what they've been able to do is help schools in different parts of the country, individuals, and even though they emanate from the great state of New Jersey, one of the smallest states, they are a powerhouse. So what you're going to hear today are a lot of really important stories. And stories from volunteers, so that you can understand how you might be able to volunteer, not only for good grief, but in the best way anywhere in the world, for anything that really gives you a life purpose. You're going to hear from one of the people who's benefiting, a father who lost his wife very quickly. She was 45 years old in the midst of life. And he had three children. Three children who are now 17, 14, and 10. And what Good Grief did for them, you'll hear intermittently what Good Grief did for me as a volunteer. And I wish it had been something that my mom could have experienced when my dad died when he was 42 and left us alone. I was 11. But to set the stage, we're going to start with the executive director. And his name is Chris Heiss, and he's going to set the stage for this so you understand what we're going to ask you to do. Because I'm very clear about it. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Thanks, Adrian. So Good Grief was founded back in 2004, and we first had what we call our Knights of Support, which are the in-person meetings with kids and families. But it was founded as an organization to help kids who are experiencing grief. The group of folks that got together back in 2004 understood that kids who are experiencing grief have a pretty high incidence and potential to have significant negative experiences in their lives, right? Grief can cause difficulty in school. Grief can cause behavioral problems in school and elsewhere. Grief can even cause a lot of different physical symptoms. We often have kids who are experiencing grief who say that they have, you know, their tummy hurts or they have they're experiencing headaches and things like that. And so we knew that childhood grief was something that needed to be addressed and that needed to be recognized. Our mission, written broadly, is we build resilience in children, we strengthen families, and we empower communities to grow from lost adversity. You know, kids are resilient, but we help them understand that the grief experience that they are having is not abnormal. Often kids, when they have a family member die, they are the one kid in their class or the one kid in their school who has had a parent die or a sibling die. And it can be very isolating for them. We often hear of kids who get bullied in school because they're the one kid who has who has that experience.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

So of course I'm so devoted to this charity because I'm one of those kids. When my dad died, I was 11, and that's a very tough time because every every minute is a tough time. But you're going into the beginning of puberty, the beginning of knowing who you are as a young woman. You're there's no man in the family to help you and to guide you, so that's always an issue. But I absolutely remember, Chris, going back to school seven days after the burial and being told, okay, go get an A. That'll make you feel better. Number one. Number two, there was a party. And I got disinvited because the kids were scared. They were scared that their parents could die if they got too close to me. That's what they were really scared of. I didn't know that then. So it was pretty awful. And there was no safety net, nothing. Even the guidance counselors in school could do. What a difference through good grief. It is honestly black and white. You go there, you feel connected, whether you're the child of any age, whether you're the grandparent who's now taken over, which happens sometimes, and of course, whether you're the parent who's lost or your loved one. It is unbelievable. Somebody later on in our show, by the way, called it magical. One of the things I always like to tell people about, particularly if I'm asking for a donation, is what the plant looks like, what your two places where the kids go. It is so beautiful and well thought out. And some of the dollars go to making that even more enhanced and having more and more for that environment. I've never seen an environment like it. Explain what that looks like.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

So we are fortunate to have two facilities, one just outside of Princeton, New Jersey, and one in Morristown, New Jersey. Both are older Victorian homes built in the mid-1800s. And when families come in, they often tell us how much like a home it feels when they get here. One of the first spaces most families work walk into is what's called our opening circle room. It's a great big open space that serves a couple different functions. Every time a family comes to Good Grief, we offer them food when they first get here because often when you're a grieving family, some of the day-to-day normal responsibilities just seem like too much. And giving food is a way to kind of take a little bit of something off their plate so they can just focus on being in community together. It's also a way to help build community, right? Breaking bread together, having conversation with your friends that you have have made here at Good Grief. But it's also where we do our opening circle ritual. The biggest part of our opening circle is saying the name of the person who died. And many folks don't get that chance. I know if you've had a conversation with someone and they say, Oh, my father died or my brother died, often the response is, oh, I'm so sorry, and then the person turns around and walks away.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

They can't wait to get out of the conversation. That's the reason why they do that.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

My my favorite response is to say, okay, so what was their name? Good grief's philosophy is all about maintaining a connection with that person who died. There has been research that says that even if you just think about one in your past who has been helpful to you in the past, they can that memory can be helpful to you in the present with dealing with whatever the situation is. Rooms are very much tailored for the age of the kids. Our youngest kids are three, four, and five-year-olds. So if you think about like a preschool classroom, a lot of toys, we do a lot of, have a lot of stuffed animals to help those littlest kids begin to build the vocabulary around the emotions that they have so that they can then describe what they're feeling in the future, right? I'm really angry, right? Often when you're able to label the emotion, it takes some of the power away from that emotion.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

Teenagers have a pool table, because I was volunteering with teenagers, and they really learn to socialize and to mention these things, but they also get into other issues in their life because they're growing up. You know, Chris, one of the reasons that I want to do this show, of course, is to support good grief. But people might think, well, what does this have to do with travel? Well, the Atrus Traveler is a very particular show. It's the voice of the 60 plus traveler. And one of the biggest issues is the loss of a companion. When I take my polls and I ask, why aren't you traveling anymore? There's a reason we won the solo travel award. Because we have to get people moving again after their grief experience. Don't think this doesn't have anything to do with it. So I'm going to ask you a part of your space that can only be asked by an insider like me. And now listen to the way I put it. You've got a padded cell, and it's not what you call it, but it's what I call it. And it was the most important room for me. And if anything ever happened to somebody that I loved so much, I would make one of those rooms in my closet. Tell them what it is.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

So we call it the volcano room.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Yes, isn't that nice? That's better than a padded cell. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Which I like because I I when I was a kid, my family was a military family. We actually lived on the side of Mount Aetna at one point. So I lived on a volcano. And now we've got volcano rooms in our buildings. The idea behind the volcano room is that particularly for the six, seven, eight to maybe eleven-year-olds, they sometimes you just need an outlet, a physical outlet for some of the feelings that you're having. And so we give them a safe place to go with a buddy for a period, a short period of time, two, three minutes, and to kind of let out some of that energy and then be able to come back to the group and participate because it's a peer support program, right? They're having conversations with each other, they're reading books, they're doing art projects, that sort of stuff. But if you've just got that energy built up, you need a place to release it. And so it it's a safe place for them to be able to go and bounce around on the walls. We have squishy snowballs they can throw at each other, you know, boxing gloves if they need to use them, that sort of thing, just to be able to get that energy out, and then they can come back to the to the group.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

And the walls actually do have soft clods and padding around them just in case they they knock into a wall. And I have to say I I liked it for myself.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

The lights are covered with cages so that you know if the balls get thrown, they don't break anything. It's great.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

We're going to be continuing our discussion with Chris, and then we're going to hear from the volunteers, one of whom volunteers mostly with all the parents themselves and the grandparents, another who had uh gone through every single age group, and then the dad who lost his wife and has been with a good group for two years. So don't you guys go anywhere. In response to how you can donate, because I know you're all getting your checkbooks out and all that stuff. Well, there's two ways of doing it. One is you can simply text it, pick up a phone, take a look at our show notes, you'll see right here on the side, and you will see the text that you could use to text the donation. The other thing that you can do is do it online. You will see the link on our show notes. And if you're reading about this in our newsletter, you'll see that right there in our article on this. And simply use that. That's all you need to do. And as I said at the beginning, if $35 or more is what you're planning to donate, we will know that. And you will receive a download of my latest book, The Retirement Income Explosion, with lots of hints and tips for not only making money for travel, but anything else that you might be interested in, including adding to your donation. So, Chris, you know, this is a very rewarding thing you're doing. But if you say to yourself, the thing I'm really doing in this world that I am the proudest, so it makes me feel the best, fill in the black.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

We build community. I I mentioned how grief is a super isolating experience, particularly for kids, but also for parents. Part of Artishan being strengthening families, right? There are there are families who, when death happens in the family, that can be a really disruptive experience for the entire family, and many divorces are caused by death in the family. Yes. The other thing is we are providing preventative mental health services for folks. My sister is a psychiatrist in the Navy, and she has told me directly that many of the young adults that she works with who are having mental health challenges have unresolved grief in their background. My hope is that through this community that we've built, where people have experienced the life experience, folks who are farther along in their grief journey to provide a beacon for them around how to handle what they've gone through, that the experience of grief, even though it's a universal experience, is a little bit easier for them.

SPEAKER_03 13:25

So I I want to say this that's going to sound strange, but it will not sound strange to anybody who's ever felt the loss. And that is a death of someone you love does not make you wrong. You are allowed to grieve in any way you want. And if you need support and help in doing that, you can learn a lot from Good Grief. So I thank you so much, Chris. You've really set the stage for the rest of our participants, and it's an inspirational place. But I I I hope that everybody realizes it's an extremely happy place. Now you all know I have an agenda here. I want you to donate. It's very easy to donate to Good Grief. You simply take a look at our show notes, you'll see how to text a donation, how to put a donation online, no problem at all. You'll know that if it's $35 or more, you'll get a download of my latest book, The Retirement Income Explosion. It's gotten great reviews, but I also want to tell you that I've got a goal. Uh, and that goal is to have at least $10,000 more than we had without this podcast-a-thon. And all it takes is 300 of you. I'm told that thousands listen. So if 300 of you just contributed $35, we'd really have quite a nice presentation for Good Grief. And don't forget to tell your friends and bring them into it too. Donate. Thank you. I have the pleasure of introducing to you two companions, and that is Caroline Smith and Jill Canastra, and they are both volunteers, as I was for five years, at Good Grief. We want to talk about their experiences, what it means, but there's another part of it too, and that is that you can pick up all of the wonderful feelings, all of the wonderful rewards that they've gotten. Caroline Smith, we're going to start with you, Caroline. What brought you to Good Grief?

SPEAKER_02 15:13

I was an empty nester and was trying to find something to do that I felt would be rewarding for me, but that I would also be able to give back to different communities. And a friend of mine had a friend who was volunteering for Good Grief. I, you know, most everyone has had someone die in their family. So I was a bit intrigued that Good Grief was serving the needs of children who had suffered loss. I direct children's theater. I sat down and met with this person who was a facilitator and was intrigued and interested and went and took a tour of the facility, and I am still facilitating with the smallest kids, which are the three to five-year-olds. And I've this is next year, I believe, is my 17th year.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

Wow. So that's been lasting. Now, Jill, how about you? How did you get to Good Grief?

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Mine is kind of for similar reasons, but I was a middle school guidance counselor. I had a student who had lost her brother, and I saw how much that affected sh her, her group of friends. And there was an intern working with me who said, I am involved with this organization called Good Grief, and it really is awesome. You should try it because I think you'd be really good at it. So it turned out that I wound up retiring at the end of that school year and immediately went and signed up to get trained for good grief. And that for me was I think 13 years ago. And very similarly to what Caroline said, I was looking also for something of purpose, something where I could feel good about what I was contributing, and that I could see the effects, the training, the setup of good grief, all that it had to offer.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

You know, I'll tell you my story, which is different. And I was a volunteer for five years, and I love it so much. I think it's so important that if I lived there, I would continue to be one, and it would be 10 years now. So even though I haven't been there for five years, this is still constantly on my mind. I lost my parent, my father, suddenly at age 11. And it was a terrible loss and a terrible confusion in my life. Now by this time, I was maybe 70 years old, and it had still not gone away. And I didn't know if I wanted to face that, but I did. And as you say, the training was spectacular. There was so much involved in me growing. And then when I started to work for five years at all age levels, it was astonishing. So let's talk for a minute, Caroline, about the training. It is very, very unique. Tell us a little bit about how it goes and when you got out of it.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

It was a long training. I think it's still 30 to 35 hours. What my memory of the training is as all the little challenges that you were presented with, that it's not school, you're not a therapist, you're not a counselor, and it was really getting in touch with your own need to fix things, and you can't fix grief. And the camaraderie between the facilitators and training and the vulnerability that we shared with each other was really impactful and probably one of the most influential things I've ever done. And I think even when I am no longer going as a facilitator to good grief, I will always carry with me some of those skills. Active listening, being comfortable with silence. That's a big one. Because as a culture, we are not, not only are we not comfortable with this topic of death, we are not comfortable with silence. And so that training was so intense that a lot of the takeaways not only serve the kids and the adults that good grief reaches out to, but I think just as a human being was very impactful.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

Yes, and my training was years after yours, and it still has changed and evolved. And one of the things that people say to me is, Can you really do something about grief? Well, you're not doing something about grief, but you are facilitating somebody's journey through grief. And in that way, you're informing yourself. I remember for my hardest one, because I'm used to being in front of the stage, was you know, you're you're not the pie, you're the crust. You're the crust. You're holding everything up, you're facilitating, you're not the cherry on the top. And you have to learn that. It it infuses a lot of other stuff in your life. So, how about Jill? Jill, what was your experience with the training?

SPEAKER_01 19:40

My experience was really interesting because as a guidance counselor, your job is to pick and is to give information. So when I started Good Grief and the person in charge who was wonderful, said it's the most difficult for people coming from where I'm coming, because as Carolyn was saying, our job it was really about setting up a climate where everybody was comfortable to share. So I found it very challenging because I did think this would be easy, and it really wasn't as easy as I thought. But again, the camaraderie, the support from each other, the closeness that you form as a group because you're together for so many hours for I think we had three days in a row where you're confessing to your own feelings about death and when you had your losses occur. It really was quite an experience going through the training, and afterwards you feel very bonded to the people with whom you worked.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

Yes, one of the great things about being a volunteer is that you debrief yourself every single week after you work. It's the greatest bonding experience to talk about how you felt through that evening and you leave it there and you learn to leave it there, which is something very difficult because every time I tell people to go volunteer, they'll say, Oh, I can't do that, it'll break my heart. Oh, I can't do that, I'll think about these terrible things all week. You can leave it there, you can learn to do that. So for those listening that want to volunteer anywhere, one of the things you should ask the organization is, How do you train me? And if they're training you to lick stamps in the back of the room, get another organization. So you can be transformed by your volunteer work. There's no doubt. I loved, in my time, using a great big piece of paper, and you took a pencil, Jill, as you say, your areas of law, and you kind of make a chart of where you lost and you gained. And I was very surprised at the places that I felt I had lost. And by revisiting them, it made such a such a big difference. Now let's talk about the experience while you're doing your your facilitation, such a fancy word. So, Caroline, maybe a particular session that you remember or you that you'll never forget. The only kids I have ever facilitated with are the little ones.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

And they're three to six, the green group. And there is this consistency. That they're too young to understand, they don't really know what dead means. And so we spend time almost every session, you know, why are we here? And if you want to say, you'll say, this person in my family died. And then we'll often say, What is dead? What does it mean to be dead? And the conversations that that leads are very interesting because you see the insights. The kids know that something is wrong, something is different. This person in their family, parent or sibling, is no longer there. And I remember a child was in our group and we were doing an art trot, and they had drawn everyone in their family, but up above in their picture, they had sort of drawn this image, a black image. And given good grief training, I did not say, Oh, I like your picture, but I said, Oh, tell me more about your picture. So the child went through everybody that was in their family. And I said, Well, tell me about this black form above everyone else. And the reply was, Oh, that's my father. And he's watching us. Yes. And he's always watching us. It was very quiet, but it was very impactful for him, not only to be able to draw it, but just the way I asked the questions as I had been trained, just to get more information from him about what exactly was in the picture. And sometimes we'll ask, why are you using those colors? What color is sad? What color is mad? And you know, very often pink is sad and black is happy, and you just kind of go with it, reflected back, and a lot just comes out of reflecting back.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

But we had two little boys, and they were 18 months apart, three and almost five. They were brothers. And the mother had died. And again, they had said at the beginning of the year that she's in heaven and watching us. But they were very rambunctious. One was having trouble with potty training, the little one. By the end, it wasn't the case. Without saying a word, without any discipline, without anything that would be bring you to a professional, you know, we we need so give them a pill. No, it stopped. And that was because they really, so little, were able to learn expression and how to express themselves and express their feelings to others that they were keeping in, obviously, and was coming out in a negative way. And Jill, let's go. You you have been with a different age group. So let's hear about that.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

So I will say my first experience was actually with Caroline, and she is a star with those little kids. So I can see why she stayed where she was. Right. It's hard. It's very hard. So I progressed over my years. I worked my way through almost age every age level because another good thing about Good Grief, they want to put you where you're the most comfortable. Right. I progressed to the nine and ten-year-olds who I really loved. And a crazy story with that group is I had a set of triplets. And it's really hard when you have siblings because you don't know if one of them is going to shut the others down. You don't know what if they all dealt the same way with the situation. So it would be interesting that one of them would be telling his or her feeling, it was two boys and a girl, about what something was like. And the other one would say, No, that's not how it happened. And she'd say, Yes, it was. Our job is to just step in and say everybody's got their own memory and their own picture of what happened. So neither of you is right or wrong, but that's the way you felt about it.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

So I liked working with the age, but I decided to go up again to the adults. And that's where I really found my comfort zone. Everybody's at a different place with this, and that every part of it is to go around and say when you lost your person. So it could have been as close as three weeks ago to as long as five, six years ago. And they were all in different places. But the beauty of the adults is they're so supportive of each other. The ones that had been there for a long time at the end would always say, No matter how you're feeling, keep coming back. You're gonna see it's the best gift you've given yourself. The other ones would sit and could go two, three sessions of saying nothing, and then somebody would say something that would like open them up, and then they would be talking, crying, expressing what they felt, and at the end they would thank everybody for listening and helping them. So with adults, I think more than probably any of the other groups, they would literally cheer for each other. I mean, when we one night we had a woman that came in and said, I had nobody to call, I was running late for my carpool, I got a flat tire, I couldn't get AAA there fast enough, so I changed my tire myself. They literally were clapping for her.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Yes, of course. The support is unbelievable. Anybody who wants to donate to this particular organization, I'm gonna show you how to do that in a minute, is doing so much more than just for the family, just for the children. It's family deep. It also changes the community because I don't know if you realize this, but statistically, kids who have lost a parent do not end up graduating from school. Even those with dollars, even that those that don't have other issues, and those that do have other issues financially is even worse. And so it's this is a really difficult problem. And then it becomes a problem for the school. But good grief also offers this layer of understanding when it comes to grief, that as you said, Jill, goes across all the generations. Something we're all going to experience at one time or another if we haven't already. And something that you can deal with throughout the life continuum, another fancy word. But it's true, and no other organization, even though this is we already know from speaking about the organization, that it's in in New Jersey. And yet it has worldwide effect because one of the things that almost every one of us is going to experience will be grief. By now you know that this is part of a podcast-a-thon from the AgeWise Collective. And this is really a wonderful bunch of women who have podcasts for people of a certain age. We meet once a month, we share. And now I'm going to ask you to support us in supporting good grief. And that is an organization that really delves into the essence of childhood grief and helps kids, as I was one who lost parents early in life. It's very, very easy for you to donate. Take a look at the show notes. You'll see how to text agewise to 50155, or you can use a link, it'll go directly, you'll get your thank you. But most importantly, if you spend $35 on this great charity, you'll also get my latest book, The Retirement Income Explosion. It's gotten great reviews, and I have to tell you that it'll hopefully make you a lot more money than the $35 you're spending. And so please do donate now. I've been told recently that there are a number of grandparents who are now also in this, either because now they're caregivers to the kids, or they've wanted that experience because they're they're grieving themselves. Can you tell us a little bit about that, Jill?

SPEAKER_01 29:32

I'll tell you a very interesting story. I subbed before I worked with the adult group, I subbed in an adult group just to see what it was like. When they go around the circle, you introduce yourself. I just said my name and that I was gonna observe and I hoped it was okay with everybody that I was going to be there. And everybody shook their heads, and it turned out that there were grandparents that were coming for the first time to the group because they had lost their child and were now in charge of the grandchildren. I did not say one word through the whole time. And at the end of it, they came and hugged and kissed me and thanked me for being there. And all I had said at the end was thank you so much for allowing me to be present for what I've just experienced, because it really is amazing to see how well the group is there to support you. And these people just appreciate that they're allowed to talk and say what they want. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

The things I want you to take away just from this part of the conversation is it makes a difference to have ritual. I mean, that's being really institutionalized in a good way, but where people can actually learn from good grief. That's what I mean by that, where you can see their protocols, what they do to make a difference anywhere all over the world. So if you're donating, you're not donating for one charity in New Jersey, you're donating for the world, and it's grief. The other thing to know is that there are things to be learned yet. And if it's going to be learned, it's going to be learned there. So there's a lot going on here for the future. It's, I mean, we could go on with stories. So, Jill, the story that you would like them to carry, the one thing that you still, when you say good grief, this is what was a reward for me, or this was an eye-opener for me.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

No, I have to say the most profound thing for me personally, every week when I'm getting ready to go, my friends are like, doesn't this depress you? You must feel so it's so much to carry. And I honestly, my my response is always the same. I'm so inspired. I feel so much stronger as a woman because a lot of my groups have been all women. Yes. They keep saying, I didn't ask for this. I didn't want this to happen, and I wouldn't want it to happen again. However, I am a stronger person now. I do more for myself than I ever thought was possible. So they look at it almost like the world didn't end. I just almost had a chance to be recreated as a stronger person. I love this about it. There was my last group, there was somebody who started dating, and there were other members that were fresh to the group. And they literally were on the edge of their seat. Tell me about it. Like they were happy to hear that life goes on. And they get that from people that are actually experiencing it. Not because somebody's saying, Oh, you'll see, it'll get better.

unknown 32:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

They see for themselves it gets better. For better or worse, life will go on because you're dealing with it. And I really think when you don't deal with it, it's much harder to move on.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Well, folks, now you know a lot about good grief. And you know a lot about why we should be supporting them, and you know how to support them. And I hope that you've enjoyed this, and that's a funny thing to say, enjoy a podcast about grief, but it does elevate you. It gives you a roadmap, something to follow and help others follow. If you happen to know that they're in this situation, please clue them in to good grief. And do donate. Simply take a look at our show notes, and you'll see how to do that by text or online. And you know what I always say, and I'll say it again never stop traveling.