Episode #36-Dr. Joseph Williams III, Middle School Principal

In the first interview of the 25-26 school year, Dr. Spicciati talks with Rainier Middle School principal Dr. Joseph Williams III. Hear about his law school dilemma, "doing school" and of course, his favorite recess activity!

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:24

Hello, and welcome to the Recess Podcast. I'm your host, the proud superintendent of the Auburn School District, Dr. Alan Spicciotti. The Recessed is a place where we tell the stories of the people and programs that make Auburn School District such a great place to work, to attend school, to raise your kids. We are very proud of what's happening here, and I get to see lots of people and great stories all around the district and want to tell them. And this podcast is a great chance to do that. And boy, we have a great story and a great guest today. Today I'm joined by the principal of Rainier Middle School, Dr. Joseph Williams. Joseph, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Thank you so much. I'm super grateful to be on the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

I'm super grateful to have you two. All right. I'm going to uh stop talking so much and just get right into it. Uh we always start with the same question on the recess podcast. Who was your favorite teacher and why?

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Wow, that's a load of questions because I've been really fortunate to have some phenomenal teachers while I was growing up. But I'll go back to the beginning. I'm originally from Kansas City, Missouri. I'm the second oldest of six children. My mom had me when she was 18 years old. So just growing up with those humble beginnings, and it was really tough. And so it was really important for me in my growth to have teachers that believed in me. And I had a teacher for first and second grade because she looped up with me to second grade. And her name was Ms. Bond. Ms. Bond was an older teacher, and truthfully, because I had such a young mother, I needed an older teacher. So it was really good to have her because she really stressed order and discipline in her class. And even though I was a pretty smart and bright kid, I did need that order and discipline. And um, she believed in me. And no matter how bad I might have been in her class, she never gave up on me. And she made sure that I, you know, read well, that I wrote well. And when I think back to my upbringing as far as schooling was concerned, she had the greatest impact. And she set the foundation for me to be successful, not only in elementary school later on, you know, in fourth and fifth grade, but on in the middle and high school. So grateful to Miss Vaughn. May she rest in peace.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Uh sounds like a wonderful teacher. I wish I had a bell uh for every time my guest said, you know, their teacher believed in them, encouraged them, saw things in them that maybe they didn't yet see than themselves. Um because that personal quality shows up so much more than you know, she she had expertise in handwriting or you know, some advanced subject. It's really about connecting with kids. Uh first and foremost, we say relationships precede learning. That's one of our kind of buzzword terms in Auburn. Yes, uh, and you did a beautiful job of explaining that.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

But as you were speaking, it reminded me you wrote a book either for or about your mom, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yeah, it was about my mother. It was called share about that. Thank you so much. Yeah, I appreciate that. Um, the book was called Mama Put Us First. And the reason why I wrote that because just to go deeper into her story, my mom had my brother at my oldest brother at 14 years of age, which is crazy, right? Like to have a child, I I just can't even fathom that. Like I had my first child at 41 years of age. Like those numbers were reversed, right? To go from 14 to 41. Like, and it was tough for me at 41, so I can't even fathom what she was dealing with at 14. But by the time she was 27, she had six of us. And um, I always say, you know, people say, Well, how did, you know, out of six children, how did all six of you become successful? And I really do mean that. Like, four of us are educators. My youngest brother is a principal in Kansas City. I have um two sisters that are teachers, educators in Houston, Texas, and my oldest brother that my mom had, he just recently um sold his, you know, insurance agency at all, an all-state agency. And then my brother that's a year younger than me, you know, he's worked in many Fortune 500 companies. So we've all been successful. And I've always said that the reason for our success was my mother. And so it's super important, obviously, to have phenomenal educators in the school, but there's also people that are away from the school that are having just as much impact on our kids. And so I really believe in that African proverb that says it takes a village to raise our children. And so when I think about my mother, she was very committed to us getting a quality education. And even though we lived in some really tough areas in Kansas City, she used to always tell us we might live live in the hood, but the hood doesn't have to live in us, and the quickest way out of it is a quality education. And we all believed her, and that's the great thing about it, and so you know, I've taken that mantra as an educator, not only as a teacher for 11 years, but you know, the last 15 plus years as an administrator. That's what I believe. I believe that I don't care how our children have started, all of our children are capable of being a success, and I'm living proof of that.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

That is a great message to start out the year. Thank you for sharing that story. That wasn't on our prep, but uh actually I I think that might end up being one of the best parts of this interview. Yes, sir. Um so you s you you shared your earliest days, but uh tell us about your pathway to your current position.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yeah, I will tell everybody that, you know, at the end of the day, I didn't choose K-12 education. K-12 education chose me because growing up, the the the and I I'm a I'm an African-American man, and so I didn't have a lot of real positive role models in my life, including my father. He wasn't really around, and so he didn't really have a positive impact on my life. So, in terms of male role models, the the role model that had the greatest impact on my life was Mr. Leroy Randolph. Uh, Mr. Randolph was my youth pastor, and Mr. Randolph was one of the few black men that I knew growing up that was successful and was a professional. He was a lawyer. Um, his wife was a teacher. He had the life that I wanted. And so um I was like, everything I did was geared toward becoming a lawyer. I went to undergrad and be, I was a pre-law major. I studied for the LSAT, did really well on the LSAT, and got into every law school that I applied to. And I was basically my last year of college, I had to take one class each semester of my last year of college to graduate. And I had a lot of time on my hands and I need to make some extra money. And somebody said, Well, why don't you just sub on the days that you don't go to um school? And I was like, hey, that's a good idea. And so I subbed, and I will tell you, no one has ever had to teach me how to handle a class. So it didn't matter if they put me in an elementary school, middle school, high school, it didn't matter. I just really connected with the kids and I was what, 23, 24 years of age. But um I just loved it. I felt like I was a fish in water, and it it really created a dilemma for me because it was like, okay, I really love what I'm doing here as this sub-teacher, but I'm on my way to law school. But I was also tired of being the pro poor broke college student. So I was like, you know what? Back then they had a way where you could defer law school. And so I was like, maybe I'll defer law school and teach for a year or two and then go to law school later. And so um, the kicker for me was the um basketball coach was having a losing season, and he quit in the middle of the year. And so they came to me and said, Hey, do you want to coach the team? And oh my God, I was just in heaven. It was like, okay, this is what I was put on this earth to do. I'm a teacher, I'm a coach, I'm gonna love this. But I still had, you know, designs on going to law school after two years. And so I deferred law school, got into um teaching, and I guess I'm still in deferred status. 30 years later, I never made it back to law school.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

We don't want you to go to law school now. Uh there's too many jokes about lawyers. So just stick with your career. And not good jokes. And and I'm just gonna interject. Uh, sir. I love that you start as a substitute teacher. Uh, we're always trying to get the word out. Our subs make an incredible contribution here, and you're uh exactly right. Like subbing is a way to explore the profession, uh make some decent money in in a flexible way so you can fit it in around other things you're doing. And it works a lot for some young adults, you know, especially if they've uh if they have their four-year degree, there's an opportunity to sub as a teacher in the classroom. Um we also have subs and and and full-time paras who can join the district. Uh so there's lots of opportunities to work in education, and you know, maybe it's temporary while you're pursuing another field, and and maybe it's it's for life. So uh Dr. Williams is a great example of that. Okay, so you you subbed, you got over the law bug. Um talk about how you got, you know, what did you teach and then how'd you get into administration?

SPEAKER_00 9:38

So, yeah, I was um I was fortunate because I was a teacher and a football coach and a basketball coach. And so one of my mentors was one of my fellow coaches, and he told me I was actually trying to get certified in social studies because I was a pre-law major. So I had taken a lot of the classes that you need to teach social studies, and he was like, dude, if you want to make sure that you're gonna keep your job, you need to get in something like special ed. And so I was like, special ed. I said, okay. I said, I never thought about that. And so I'm so grateful that I listened to him and I actually, you know, got certified in special ed. And so um, I've been fortunate. I feel like long before No Child Left Behind, I learned how to meet students where they were and provide those supports for those students so that they could be successful, right? Because when you're special ed teachers, you have to meet them where they are. They need they net they might need supports academically, socially, behaviorally. And so for me, it was really, really good to have that foundation because I felt like it was good preparation for me to um become an administrator one day. And that was another thing that he convinced me to do because I was going to get my master's degree, you know, just to make that extra money, you know, that extra stipend for having a master's degree, advanced degree. And he was like, Don't get it in social studies, Joseph. He said, get it in ed leadership. And of course, I'm 24, 25 years of age. I'm like, dude, I'm never going to be an administrator, so I don't even know why you're telling me that, giving me that advice. That's what I thought at that age, too. Right, right. And so he said something that I never forgot, Dr. Spacati. He said, Joseph, he said it's better to have something and not need it than to need something and not have it. He said, How you feel at 24 or 25 is not necessarily indicative of how you're gonna feel at 34 or 35. And I'm so grateful that I listened to him. And I did go and I did get my master's degree in ed leadership. And truthfully, I did not use it for another 11 years because I truly love being a teacher and a coach. But once it was time for me to, you know, settle down, get married, I realized that it was an opportunity for me to provide better for my family as an administrator, and that's what I did. And I became an assistant principal, and you know, after that, three years later, I became a principal, and here I am.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Well, perfect. Uh tell us why middle school?

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Why not middle school?

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Because you have experience in high school, right? You're a high school principal.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Yeah, I've been a I've been a principal. I've been fortunate, and I know a lot of people don't have this experience, Dr. Spacotti, but I've been a principal at the elementary level, the middle school level, and the high school level. And so I have a unique perspective of having been at all three levels. And so for me, when I think about middle school, if you compare all three levels. So elementary, we have those students, depending on when they start school, pre-K, kindergarten, five to six years, right? Even high school has them for four years. But middle school, we only have them for three short years. And I do mean short years, right? You'll look up one day and they're sixth grade, you'll look up another day and they're on their way to high school, right? And so it goes very, very quickly. And so for me as a principal at the middle school level, it takes on a greater sense of urgency to make sure that we are equipping our students with what they need to successfully transition from middle school to high school. So I love being a middle school principal. I think for a lot of young our young people, that's when the greatest changes happen. You know, you look at them one minute and they're 5'2, and then you look at them the next minute and they're six two, right? So true. Right, you know, and so they're going through a lot. And so when you have those kind of rapid changes with young people, there can be a lot of anxiety. There can be a lot of social emotional issues that they might be going through. So to just be there for them and also to be there for their parents, right? Because the parents are like, what do I do with this young person, right? So just being that support for them, I think is important as well. So I love middle school.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

I think back to my own time in middle school, and it was one of the most powerful transformative times of my life. Uh I came out of elementary school uh, you know, shorthand, just like any other kid, basically. Yeah. Uh and I didn't know who I was and what I was interested in and what I was that was unique to me and what uh what I was maybe good at. Uh and the teachers I had did a great job of you know seeing what I didn't see and helping helping me understand where I fit. And then from there, you know, like I took off. So uh it i i we have very, very special people in middle school. It is, you know, it is an age like you gotta be the right person, but we've got some just great teachers and support staff and administrators, and um I I think it's uh th that comment about the sense of urgency is so true. Yes. And it matches uh your leadership style really well. And uh you came in you're starting in your second year at Rainier uh and made an immediate impression in your first year uh as principal of of Rainier. Um and it made me wonder did you have a principal uh maybe when you were in school or somebody you worked for? Yeah uh who's a role model for you as a principal now?

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Yeah, you know, obviously I had some phenomenal principals growing up, but when I think about the principal that had the greatest impact on me, I I have to give a shout out to Dr. Ralph Simpson. Um, Dr. Simpson was one of my principals when I was a teacher in Atlanta, Georgia. And um he I was um fortunate to be on the inaugural because he opened up a brand new um high school. It was called Miller Grove High School, and he um had this model. He said, if you're going to apply here, you need to be one of the best of the best to apply to this school. And of course, I didn't think I was one of the best of the best, but I knew I wanted to work for him, and I was fortunate that he hired me as one of his special ed teachers at that school, and he had this model, and I've never forgotten it. It was an acronym, YMDS. YMDS, you must do something. Let me repeat that. You must do something. And it just, again, that sense of urgency, right? And so he used that model not only obviously for our students, but it also for us as educators, right? Like we have to have that mindset that we're coming in and when we come in every single day, we need to have that sense of urgency to help our students. But also our students need to have that sense of urgency to get where they're trying to get as well. And so had a tremendous impact on my career. And, you know, when I transitioned into being an administrator, I was like, okay, who will I model the most out of all the principals that I worked for, all the principals that I had myself when I was a um student in school, and Dr. Ralph Simpson, who's still a deputy superintendent in Atlanta, um, was my role model and my mentor. So shout out to Dr. Simpson.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Oh, that's fantastic. That is great. Uh the reason I asked that is you remind me a little of my middle school principal. Oh, okay. Um, and he was uh a a force and uh, you know, a very clear uh personality in the school. Um and he was comfortable in his role. Okay, and he was a disciplinarian, but uh you knew he had your best interests at heart. Absolutely. And the school was high performing. Uh he was a uh kind of a tall guy, a former athlete. Oh, nice. Uh he had a this is a true story. He had a scar on his face, probably about a uh inch and a half on one of his cheeks. And we had invented the most elaborate backstories because this guy was, you know, he was he was not somebody you messed with, and so we were sure that that came from, you know, some kind of uh altercation or something as you know, yeah, 13-year-olds with wild imaginations. So uh it he used to walk around with a coffee mug that said, Go ahead, make my day. Wow. And and he was just so present. And it reminds me, um I've told the audience before I clear my calendar Monday mornings to be out in school. Sure, yeah. And I remember one day I was at Rainier for arrival, and when the buses rolled out after they dropped the kids off, uh, you know, my my MO is I don't want to get in the way, I don't you know, I want to be a burden. Yes, sir. I I want to just uh kind of walk alongside the principal for a little bit and see what's going on and and see how we can be helpful as a district. And uh you may have said, you want to walk with me, and I said, Yeah, because we I do that a lot, right? Sure, yeah. Um Dr. Williams likes to uh visit classes at the beginning of the day. Uh and uh and I think that's brilliant because I I know from my own time working in schools, if the principal is absent somehow the kids knew and the behavior was different.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

So true.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Right? And that's not talking about Rainier or or you, but that's like that I think that's just a universal. Um and so we visited every single classroom at Rainer Middle School, and there's gotta be at least 30 of them in probably 20 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, you were booking, I was trying to keep up. And it was just it was such a great tone setter uh that you know, this is a serious place. We're here, we're gonna you know, we're gonna be focused and we're gonna be committed, and uh and and you have skin in the game and you got everybody's back. So um kudos to you for that. And uh anyway, that energy and presence just kind of resonated with uh Dr. Steven Swimer, who was my middle school principal and uh just a wonderful educator. All right, uh let's see. I want you before we go on, just talk about Rain Air Middle School a little bit today and what you're trying to accomplish in your great team because it's you know no principal does it alone. You have people on your team, uh, and then counselors, teachers, paraeducators, custodians, lunch staff, I mean it just goes on and on, office staff and and everybody else. Uh what are some of the things that Rainier is doing that it is working?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Yeah, you know, um you said something that's so true. Like at the end of the day, I can't do this great work without, you know, phenomenal people to work with every day. And so just like I was sharing that, you know, I got the motto of you must do something from my mentor um at Rainier Middle School, we have a model too. When you come to Rainier Middle School, you're coming here to do school. And I know that's not great English, but at the end of the day, you have to come here with a mindset that you're here for school. You're here to learn the lessons that your teachers have prepared for you to learn every single day. And I'm not saying that you're gonna be in the mood necessarily, but this is a great um character builder in terms of making sure that you understand the why as to why you're there every day. It's not to say that you're not gonna have fun with your friends at, you know, electives or at lunch and all that other good stuff. But we're here mainly to do school. And so one thing that we were really, really big on my year one at Ray Near Middle School was building those relationships, those authentic relationships with our students and our staff. First of all, making sure that our staff is um truly supported by the um school leadership team and what they're doing, and also making sure that um our um students understand that, hey, you're here to learn. And if you're not there to learn, then we're gonna make sure that you get back on the right path and really partnering with our parents to make sure that we're all on the same page and doing what's best for our kids, right? And so um again, coming from my background of special education, I've always believed that you have to meet students where they are, right? And so even as we go into year two, it's super important to make sure that we provide the necessary supports for our students that need that additional support. So, for example, I think about our students that um, for example, their first language might not be English, right? So it's super important for us to make sure that they have the adequate supports that they need to be successful on a day to day basis. At school, but also make sure that we're supporting our parents that who knows, they might not even speak English at home, right? So, how do we equip them with what they need to support what we're doing in the school when their children go home, right? And so again, I believe in that African proverb that says it takes a village to raise our children, right? And so making sure that we are all rolling the boat in the same direction, making sure that we're providing those necessary supports for our ML population, making sure that we're providing the necessary supports for our students that might have an IEP, for example, right? And they need additional supports, whether it's behavior or it's academic, whatever it might be, just providing what students need to be successful in our school, right? And that to me is the very definition of equity, right? Making sure we provide our students with the necessary supports that they need to be successful. And we're going to continue that. We're on that road. We're not where we want to be, Dr. Spochotti, but we're not where we used to be.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

A hundred percent love that definition of equity and uh keep doing the great work for our kids. And uh I love I hear from teachers, I hear from parents, uh Rainier's on the right track, so keep it going. Thank you. Um let's shift gears here a little bit, and uh, this is always a fun one. Tell us what is one of your favorite student success stories.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Yeah, I think um, you know, I've been really fortunate, and I feel like as educators, I think the longer you've been in this game, the the greater the stories are, right? Because, you know, if you've been in as long as I've been, and I've been in since 1994, that's well over 30 years, right? So um, and I'm able to um remember the ages of the students that I started out with by my youngest sister's age. Because I started out as a teacher when my younger sister was almost 10 years younger than me, was a senior in high school. And my youngest sister will and as we're having this on August what, you know, 15th, I think. Um, my sister on August 31st of this month will be 48 years old. So you're talking about students that I had that today, as we speak, are in their late 40s. And so, but I really want to talk about my nephew. My nephew's father unfortunately um went to prison when he was in middle school, and so my sister was having a lot of issues with him, and she asked me to take him in. And at the time, I I didn't have any children at the time, and so I was an assistant principal at the time when I took him in as an eighth grader, and I was fortunate that I I I had an opportunity when he went into ninth grade to be a high school principal. So I literally was his uncle and his principal from the time he was in high school until the time he graduated, and this young man had a lot of issues just based upon his upbringing. But um he I look at him like a son. His name is Justin Williams. Shout out to Justin, who's in his early 30s now. But um, one of the greatest moments of my life was because his last name is Williams, he was actually the last person to get his diploma. We didn't have any Ys or Zs. He was the last person to get his diploma for me, and for me to shake his hand and hug him. And it almost brings tears to my eyes now, just thinking about it, to you know, have that kind of impact on his life, not only as his uncle, but as his principal. And um what's really cool is you know, I think sometimes as young people, we try to stray away from what our parents might have done, or in my case, as his uncle, what I might have done as as a profession. But I just found out here recently that he is going back to college and he's gonna get his teaching certificate. Nice, and he's gonna be a coach as well. And he said that I had a huge influence on that. Almost brought me to tears when he told me that.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

So I'm getting goosebumps over here just hearing that story.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Yeah, it's powerful.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah, and that's the power of education and family and all the themes. Well, thank you for sharing that, Joseph. That's that's really heartwarming. Um we're gonna lighten the mood here as we start to wrap up. And uh I'll always close on on my favorite question. What was your favorite thing to do at recess?

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Oh, wow. Um, you gotta understand, I grew up in the inner city, so a lot of times what we would do in the neighborhood would just translate to the playgrounds when we got on the playgrounds in um school. And so, you know, we would play street football or street basketball, you know, in the neighborhood. And then of course we would do the same thing during recess. And so I think that's where I developed my skill um in terms of playing football and basketball. And I was pretty good, you know, um back then. And um, yeah, I got really good at it and was able to translate that into eventually being a high school football player and basketball player, and um even had an opportunity to um play college ball before I tore my knee up. But no, I mean, loved it. I will say this we're not even having this conversation if it wasn't for those kind of extracurricular activities, because for me it was the carrot that kept me engaged, it was the carrot that kept me wanting to come to school, you know. And so I'm a big fan of extracurricular, whatever, whatever your why is, whatever it is that interests you. It might be music, it might be art, it might be, you know, sports, entertainment, cheerleading, whatever it might be, um, I think it's super important. I always say an engaged student is a successful student. So if all they're coming for is just the academics, you know, it's very easy for them, if things don't work out, to kind of fall off. But if they find their space, if they're finding their group that they can really identify with and they're truly engaged, then they're gonna stay in school and they're gonna be successful.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

That's beautiful. I don't think I could say it any better myself, so uh I'm just gonna leave it there. All right. The wisdom of Dr. Joseph Williams, our principal at Rainier Middle School. Uh, we're really excited for this school year at Rainier and across the school district. Dr. Williams, thank you so much for being my guest.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Thank you, Dr. Spochati. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

And this has been the Recess Podcast, uh production of the Auburn School District, and thanks to Vicky Alonzo uh for making all the technology work and getting this published. Uh, if you enjoyed this episode, if you enjoyed Dr. Williams or uh you know folks up on the Hill on Lee Hill who would enjoy listening to this, please spread the word. Um we're really proud of the work that everybody in the district is doing. And uh over the next nine or ten months, I'll be telling a lot more stories. Uh, we'll hear from some of our great staff, and we're gonna hear from our students who are amazing and and make some of the best podcast episodes. So until the next one, thank you for listening, and I'll see you later on the Recess Podcast.