Episode 2 Fuel Protests Dublin Ireland

Supply Chain Ireland Podcast – Episode 2 covers the ongoing fuel protests across Dublin and around the country, speaking with James Geoghegan, Paul Murphy TD, John Dallon, Peader Tobin, and members of the public.

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:01

There is no other way of getting our projects around this country. Only trucks. So if the cornflakes is not on your table, do not blame the honeyers because we just can't afford to put the fuel in our trucks.

SPEAKER_07 0:14

Supply Chain Ireland Podcast. The voices behind Ireland's supply chain. This is Supply Chain Ireland Podcast with Kevin Byrne.

SPEAKER_08 0:25

Hello, and you're very welcome to another edition of Supply Chain Ireland Podcast. I'm recording this on day four of the ongoing fuel protests. And it's important to say from the outset, this is not just a Dublin story. These protests are happening at a national level. We've seen disruption reported across the country, including activity affecting major routes like the M50 motorway, as well as concerns around access to fuel infrastructure in finds in County Limerick and White Gate in Cork. But my focus over the past two days has been on the ground here in Dublin, particularly around O'Connell Street, where I've been speaking directly to the protesters who are transport operators, bus operators, agri uh contractors, etcetera. And before getting into the wider narrative, I want to be very clear what about what I personally observed on O'Connell Street. Emergency services were allowed through at all times. There was no blocking of ambulances or critical response vehicles, and in multiple instances uh protesters complied with Guardi when asked to move or adjust uh their positions. That's important context because the reaction on the ground doesn't always align with how the situation is being framed at a national level. In fact, when comments from Michal Martin began circulating, many of the protesters I spoke to took issue with how the situation was being described. There was a clear sense of frustration that that their actions, particularly here in Dublin, were being portrayed in the way they did not recognize. Here's Michal Martin.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

The protests at the moment are wrong. And in my view, is not conducive to cohesion within our society or to resolving issues in a satisfactory manner. Fuel depots will have to be cleared. There's no justification whatsoever for blockading fuel depots. It runs counter to what everybody wants, which is access to fuel in a tiny basis. And there's always a balance when there is protest to mean we are in democracy, we respect people's right to protest. And so there's always a balance initially in terms of how that is policed. But what is not acceptable is people declaring that we will turn O'Connell Street into a car park. That's not acceptable. There are people with businesses on October Street who need to survive, uh, who need foot fault, who need people to be able to access those businesses. That's not acceptable. And anybody who just simply parks a truck in the middle of nowhere, there should be penalties. Uh, and there will be penalties in terms of any uh violations of um various laws that apply there.

SPEAKER_08 3:14

That's Taoiseach Mihal Martin, and this is John Gilmore, a farming contractor, and his reaction to Mi Hall Martin's comments.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Well, I don't think it's very fair. Like we're struggling, we work seven days a week, we work very, very hard, and why should we have to suffer? You know, it's it's a it's a two-day problem here. You know, we have a seven-day problem all the time, and our diesel bill is tripled, like, you know, and I don't think it's very fair. There's a you know, a tax they can take off the diesel, and you know, I think it's it's unfair, totally unfair. So what is it you want the government to do? Well, just to reason with us, give us something, give us give give us something, look after us, you know. If it wasn't for us, the country wouldn't be running, like you know, like like farmers are the backbone of of the country, you know, and we we shouldn't be we should be here like and and just explain to me in in terms of your own costs for your company.

SPEAKER_08 4:02

Uh you know, say since uh the end of February, how what do those costs look like? They've tripled.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

They have like everything since even since COVID, like everything is just rows and rows, parts, you name it, it's just it's it's tripled.

SPEAKER_08 4:16

That's John Gilmore, a farming contractor, and this is the reaction from Paul Murphy T D.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yeah, look, I think people across the country, uh whether they're contractors or haulers or teachers or whatever job that they're doing, people are really suffering from the cost of living crisis. We already had a cost of living crisis, then Trump and Israel started a horrific assault on Iran and have plunged the whole world into a cost of living crisis upon cost of living crisis. And the government has done precious little to protect people. I mean, we said it at the time, they gave people a few cents off petrol, diesel, a couple of cents off uh kerosene, but that could be wiped away overnight, and that's effectively what happened as oil prices continued to rise. Um, and so I think the government has created a situation where people rightly feel they have no alternative but to protest for support. Um, and the government should really be listening to people, um, should be supporting them. There's a whole range of things that they can do. I mean, we're the ones who've been calling for price controls from the very, very start. We have a bill to introduce price controls to say uh no more than 175 a litre for petrol and diesel, a euro for kerosene, a euro for green diesel. Um, we need to implement price controls, we need to give people security as well as supporting people with measures like an energy credit for every household in the country, special measures for disabled people and carers. Um so the government can end it, they can end it by talking to people now, and they can end it by acting on the cost of living crisis as opposed to kind of washing their hands of it. Should the doll be recalled? Absolutely. I mean it's scandalous that the doll has been off now for two weeks while people are really struggling, while the crisis is getting worse and worse and worse. And the government, I mean, didn't even say a word yesterday about what Trump was threatening to unleash. Genocide in Iran, which would have had an even worse impact in terms of the oil uh prices, doesn't want to say anything to upset uh Donald Trump, but crucially won't do enough to protect ordinary uh people because basically, from their point of view, the market rules, even though they have this massive surplus which could be used to protect people, they're determined not to use it. And I think the latest comments from me on Martin are particularly disgraceful saying that this is a wrong form of protest. I mean people have every right to protest, whether you agree or disagree with them, and they've every right to protest, and we all know that effective protest does involve disruption. That's absolutely uh inevitable, and people feel they have no choice, and therefore they have have a right to protest, and it's not for the Taoq to tell people that they're engaged in a wrong form of protest.

SPEAKER_08 6:49

That's Paul Murphy TD. Now, one of the things that's become clear over the past few days is that this isn't a single centralized movement. From what we know and is widely reported, these protests have been organised through a mix of social media groups and messaging channels, bringing together farmers, hauliers and transport operators from across the country. And within that, different voices have started to emerge, particularly here in Dublin. One of those voices is John Dallon, who has effectively become a spokesperson for the per for the protest in the city centre. He's a farmer and someone who has been very vocal about the pressure rising fuel costs are putting on ordinary working people, and the belief among protesters that the government isn't doing enough. Here's John Dallon.

SPEAKER_05 7:35

What the Tea Shop came out with yesterday, for a man with integrity and and intelligence, um it was such a low, low statement, such a uh a disrespectful statement. Uh it's totally unacceptable by the by the public. And what he done was he escalated this protest to what it is today, and I'd say he has escalated it to even a higher extent from what it's going to be. And he he also made another statement that we turned where the GPO is into a car park. Now he needs to take that back. That is an insult, and an insult to the people of Dublin, an insult to the people of the island of Ireland, because we liaised on with the guardashia Kana, the Commissioner of Road Trafficking, um, and we and the inspector, and they decided that that was a safe place to put them the machinery, the lorries, uh, buses, etc. And we said, no problem, if he if he wanted that way, we'll do it. So, like, coming from a safety point of view, I agree with the guard of Shea Khan and the Commissioner and an inspector. So, like, I mean, and and coming out there and making statements about uh the public and this, that, and the other. Now, I respect where some people are coming from that they have to go to hospitals, they might have to go to the doctors, but um there's myself and uh James and uh and Christopher, like I mean, we're on social media, we're on uh television, and like I mean, our number is there. We can make phone calls because there's WhatsApps all over the country, and um they they can get if somebody out for an emergency go to a hospital. That is not a problem, because we have emphasized that all emergency exits must be left open and kept open at no time should it be blocked by any vehicle, and this is a peaceful process, and the message I'm sending out keep it a peaceful process or protest. So um my wording in all of this as well is Martin Hayden, the Minister of Agriculture, came out on RT, more or less said that John Dallin myself, I represent nobody. Well now, to be quite honest with you, that's a little bit of an insult now because um I know Martin Hayden and the Minister of Agriculture, he's only down the road a couple of miles from me. Um I stretched out to Martin Hayden on Sunday, I sent a message to him, a courtesy message, and I just asked him would he be able to give me a quick call or could I give him a quick call? I know it was the Easter Bank holiday weekend. I didn't like to ring him or make any contact with him. Um so I just sent a message. I didn't hear any contact back with him. So um that in itself uh I wasn't happy about. But it doesn't matter. Then we moved on. Uh we I went to a lot of meetings all around the country uh of Ireland, and we were in Manor Hamilton Saturday night, and uh we came back anyway, and we there was a letter sent into government, it was emailed into government, and um it was a request in a meeting and and of the demands. So, since that we'll move on then, uh I sent a match um an email in myself um requesting a meeting through Park Brady with government, and and the reason it was sent through Parik Brady, the Senator Park Brady, because he was a Fine Gale member of the party. So I was sure then that that would be delivered to attonage this office. And uh uh the councillor in Castle Dermot also emailed the Taoiseach uh letter of the people that were put forward, the delegates I should say was put forward as spokesperson for the people of Ireland. Now it's not a big ask. Now I think the Taoiseach, I I'm not up to date with the news because I'm here at the protest, but I'm just hearing back from some of the reporters uh that the Taoiseach has uh come back, that uh we're looking to go in for talks, we've no mandate. Like, I mean, uh another thing that's a little bit insulting. We know what we want going in. We know what we want. Like I mean, uh the Taoiseach, he might have been a teacher one time. Does he think that we're not educated enough to talk to him and explain what's wanted and explain the concerns and the cries that's there from people of the public of Ireland?

SPEAKER_08 12:09

Would you say, John, that um he's been disrespectful? Would you say that he could have come out yesterday with a more positive message? It's it's like what he came out with is basically putting the public against the people that are protesting.

SPEAKER_05 12:26

Well, I I I'm not naming anybody in this, but I I was talking to uh uh a minister, uh not in government, but I was talking to a minister and a quote I will not give the name, yeah. But he said to me, the arrogance of the government is absolutely horrendous. And day by day they're getting more arrogant and more arrogant. And I the way I'm looking at it is, and I do be watching uh the doll debates at night, and I see it there, they think they can sail on into the sunlight, do what they like, not listen to the people. They need to listen to the people. The people of the island of Ireland are the people that put them in power, and they need to realise that. But I think maybe it's coming to the time, because when you see 92% on social media of the people that's backing at this protest, that sends a serious message across that there's something really, really wrong. And maybe maybe the people of this country need to start taking a little bit of that power back to let the government know that that we are the people that put you in power and you need to start listening. And and and on another note there, the the government are well able to find millions upon millions to give the countries at war no disrespect to them countries, no disrespect to the different nationalities. But the book stops here in Ireland first. You look after the people of your own country first. There is so much poverty, there is so much people struggling, trying to pay rent, trying to pay mortgages, trying to put fuel in cars to bring kids to school. Like I mean, and there's so much. I have people walking up to me with so many concerns. I met a couple the other day, I I said it there on Virgin Media and RTE, and I emphasized it, that they went for a mortgage, they got their mortgage, they went to the builder that gave them the quote and said to the builder, we have our mortgage. You can start building. And he said, I'm very, very sorry, he said. He said, if you want to go somewhere else you can, but he said, with the rise in prices of material, the escalation prices of fuel, he said, I cannot do it. I will need 23,000 to 25,000 more to build a house for you. Now them people have to go back to the mortgage company or the lending institutions to get that money or to see will they give them the extra money to go build their house. Now that's another serious cry. I had two nurses on the phone, and them two nurses uh came to me and said to me, you're doing great work, John. You need to um you need to keep up the good work and not and not uh uh back down. And like I mean, they're saying they're working under serious pressures, bad conditions. So like I mean, like I mean, that's another cry. And and for Martin Hayden, the minister come out that uh I have no advice, I represent nobody. Like I mean, when you have people coming to you from the public, I'm one of the delegates that was put forward for that meeting. So, like I mean, there's a serious, serious want out there. Do you know? And uh I mean I don't know where where it where it's going, but the government is totally negative now. And the government is escalating this and escalating this. And I've been asked questions about uh defence forces. Like, I mean, I don't disrespect whatever whatever they need to do to do, and if they come, we'll respect them. I mean, uh we we've always respected everybody here, and I've always respected everybody in government, even talking to them or outside of it. I I I give them the respect, but they're not respecting us. They're not respecting the people of Ireland now. They are going again the people of Ireland, and and that's that's and like I mean, it's plain to be seen that they're going against them.

SPEAKER_08 16:15

So that's where I'm coming from. John, on a on a final note, where do you feel uh this is is going to end? And I don't mean the protest. I mean where is the resolution going to come from?

SPEAKER_05 16:27

The resolution, well I'll put it this way to you. We're calling on the gov the the government to save our economy. That's basically it. We're saving we're calling on the on on the government to save our economy. Do we want do we want another 2007 and 8? A Celtic tiger, and then like I mean, living in a false economy. Maybe we're still living in a false economy. And maybe maybe when it does give a bang, then the government will wake up. But I can tell you this, the people are very, very concerned out there. I there's people walking up and down the streets here, shaking hands with me and saying, keep up the good work. Where were you, lads? For uh it should have been here years ago. We need people like you. Now, and another note there as well before we finish up, it breaks my heart. I went across the road there with Christopher Duffy a few times getting chips and burgers and that, to see the amount of homeless people, and especially young girls and ladies that are very vulnerable. It is absolutely horrendous to see the amount of people that's homeless. I gave a few pounds to them to get coffee and get sandwiches, and I have to compliment and thank Daybreak down there that gave coffee and sandwiches, and there's other people coming up with stuff. Kelly's a Burris, uh the main class dealers in Burris, in County Carlo, they gave us uh uh a heap of burgers to get in there. Now, I to be quite honest with you, I went to some of the people there and I told them that they have to get burgers. But I I honestly think that I need to give some of these burgers to the homeless people. They need it worse than we need it. And like I mean, they this is what I'm saying to you about the concerns here in Ireland. And for a minister to come out and say that I speak for no one, I have no voice, I'm speaking for them people. Them people have no home, they have nothing. Nothing. And we're giving away money, billions of money. It's it's ridiculous. But shouldn't it be the case that everybody has a voice? A hundred percent. Just because, just because I am not part of an organization, I but I am part of an organization. That's where the government is forgetting. I myself am part of two organisations, and I don't have to name them. The organizations know themselves. I'm actually part of three of them. So, like, I mean, that's the message that I'm sending in there. So they can bring in IFA tomorrow and bring in FCI. FCI is Farm Contractors Ireland. I'm disrespecting none of them because I talked to Francie Garman and Dave McDonald of the IFA. So I have no disrespect to them men. But the thing about it is there's more than than than one organisation, there's seven farm organizations. And I mean the the bus people here have nobody representing them. They've come to me, the bus companies. Um, the small haulage companies, the IRHA back uh represents the bigger companies, they can go to the uh the dial depots, buy tanker loads of diesel themselves at 136 a litre plus fat. Small haulers can't do that, and it's the same with the with the with the ag diesel. But uh on another note then as well, all the small family farms are are are going out of business day by day, month by month. And um another note as well, and I know you want to get finished up, rural Ireland is absolutely destroyed. Destroyed. Rural Ireland is forgotten about, our history is nearly gone. Where is it all going to end? Where is it all gonna end? Do do the government really care about rural Ireland? Rural Ireland was uh uh uh an identity, an identity, and a landmark. That's what what rural Ireland was. You you would say the heart of the culture of the country. The heart of the culture of the country took the words out of my mouth. That's exactly what they were. And like I mean, it's it it's horrendous. And I'm always um a man for rural Ireland. I mean, rural Ireland is in my heart. Ireland is in my heart. So, like I mean, we cannot forget what we represent, but the government is forgetting who or what we represent. The government was put in power, put in power by the Irish people, the people of Ireland, of the island of Ireland, to do a duty, look after the Irish people, look after the country of Ireland. They're not doing that.

SPEAKER_08 20:46

That's John Dallon. As I mentioned earlier, there is no single voice or leadership structure to these protests, but there are political figures beginning to engage directly with people on the ground. One of those is Padert O'Been, who I saw speaking with protesters here on O'Connell Street. Now, this wasn't a formal interview, but I did capture a piece of what he was saying in conversation with those gathered. In it, he speaks about the need for government to engage directly with the protesters and to open up a line of communication rather than allowing the situation to escalate.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

I know. What we're trying to do is we're ringing ministers on a daily basis, and we're trying to sit in with ministers and say, listen, guys, just have enough cop on to talk to these individuals. The simplest thing in the world, like the first instinct, any politician that should have if I agree with you or disagree with you, it doesn't matter a damn. I should be able to talk to you, right? We should be able to have a coffee and and at least try to see if we come to some accommodation. You know, like in a good Friday agreement, the Good Friday agreement wouldn't have happened unless people were willing to sit in a room and talk to each other. For years it didn't, and as a result of the troubles went on for decades. People need to talk to each other. And the fact that the government will talk to every single person, except for those who are telling it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_08 21:56

That's Patter Tobean T D. And it's not just organizers. Or politicians. Members of the public are asking questions too. One person I spoke to wanted to put it directly to the government. If they're taking in more revenue every time fuel prices rise, why would they engage at all?

SPEAKER_06 22:12

I just have a question that is uh it's perplexing me. I believe that uh sixty-seven cents on every euro goes to the government on litre of fuel. And if as lately has happened, the price of fuel goes up, it means the government are actually making more money. And they have no then incentive to do anything except sit there.

SPEAKER_08 22:32

Yeah, so what what you're um thinking on it is the government have no incentive to engage in conversations reducing. They're actually making more money.

SPEAKER_06 22:40

Yeah. They can sit it out and wait it out and they don't lose.

SPEAKER_08 22:44

That's John Farrelly, a member of the public. A week ago, James Gagan was best known online for his steady stream of TikTok updates, documenting the everyday highs and lows of life as an agricultural contractor. Content that spoke more to machinery enthusiasts than to political audiences. But the familiar rhythm was quickly overtaken by events, as he emerged almost overnight as one of the organizers behind a wave of protests that brought disruption to motorways, provincial towns, and Dublin city centre. I met him on O'Connell Street in Dublin in the midst of that shift and began by asking where things stood in relation to the protests.

SPEAKER_11 23:24

Where are we at? Protests uh growing rapid, support growing rapid, um, disillusion with the government growing rapid. Uh we knew Michal Martin was disconnected from rural Ireland, but we didn't know he was this disconnected from rural Ireland. So he has proven he's not a leader of the country, he's proven that he's actually uh a liability. At this stage, Michal Martin is a liability on Ireland. It's him that's causing this, we're not causing it. We are here and we have no choice. So if Michel Martin wants to stop this, he just needs to a little bit of common sense. Uh the package we put together of our asked and demands was not going to cost the government one penny. And he won't talk. And we weren't going in looking for three or four or five hundred million handout. We were looking for a reduction in the cost of fuel to keep our businesses open and to keep men working and to keep people off the dole, and to keep the the building retailers in business, the quarries, the concrete suppliers, the roofers. Because in my own business, I do agri-continent plant hair, but we've one-off house house buildings being cancelled. Where we're supposed to start digging out sites this week and next week, they're booked in, and due to the raise in oil, the materials have all gone through. So, like like our concrete company said out in an email last week, concrete up 15%. Now, you had building uh materials to any house, it's gone up 30 grand. So the problem is the problem is when it's gone up 30 grand, the people who are buying the house, for argument's sake, had a mortgage approved a year ago for 400 grand. They're going to buy the house now and it's got to 430, 440, and it says no, we can't buy it. So, what's that got? That happened in 08 when you couldn't buy the houses, it's going to happen again. The government are trying to build 40,000, 50,000 houses a year. We know there's a massive housing crisis. The foundations have stopped being dug out for new houses. And when you stop that, you have no blockers in three weeks' time working, no roofers in two months' time working, you have no houses being finished in six months' time. So this is a major crisis. And we're all in the one EU. But why are we being treated differently than other countries in the EU? And I for example, if you were in Spain today, the average cost of white diesel is from 1 euro 50 to 1 euro 70, including that. And the Spanish government have brought down their taxes to keep their economy open. And in our business, in the agricultural industry, we have no choice but to use an awful lot of uh green diesel, agricultural diesel. And my carbon tax bill in my business this year is €21,000. Going this next year to 23,000, the following year to 25, and the final year to 27. And that's whether I make money or not. Now, take that money out of any business, and I'm a small business in rural Ireland, I apply three people. It's an awful hit on the business. But Michal Martin in a speech yesterday was not about balance, and we have to have balanced protests and balanced dialogue. Well, Michal Martin is chauffeuring around in a state-driven car, he pays no carbon tax, but he thinks it's okay to hit me with 21,000 in carbon tax a year, and I'm asking Michal Martin to write a check for today's checker for 21,000 out of his salary and see what he does, and see what Simon Harris does. I don't think they will.

SPEAKER_09 26:50

No.

SPEAKER_11 26:50

Will they? No. So why hit me with it? Like, when we put a tractor out ploughing or tailoring in a field, the government's share of the fuel is 16 euro an hour now. Like, how do we sustain that? Like, when I go cutting sales this summer, I have seven machines out working. 15 an hour per machine is 105 euro an hour. We do 16 hours a day. 1600, 1700 euro a day in tax, we have to pay to the government to cut sales, to produce feed, to feed the cattle, to produce food for the Irish consumer. And this is just putting our cost through the roof. And food prices are going through the roof. And it's not that even that they're going through the roof, they're going to get actually scarce. Because we have a lot of tailage customers this year who are not going to sow crops, grain crops, because it's cost too much to plow the land with diesel. And there's land going to be left with no corn sowed because it's going to lose money. And we're here to force the government, because a few representative bodies, like for example, IFA, FCI, have dealt with the government in the last couple of weeks, but they never got a penny. So they got nothing. And the government just don't understand. Like there's a big contract in Cork, for example, and last week was a dry week, and they went flat out night and day, sawing corn and spreading the story. Their diesel bill for the week compared to the same week last year, was up 12,000 euro in one week. And that's just one week's work. That is significant. Now, no business can sustain that and try and keep the cost of food and the cost of product they produce at the same price. But our government think we can do it, continue to do it for year in, year out. But we can't do it. So it's probably this this latest hit of uh fuel cost, I say it's this has been building for years, and it's probably the straw that brought the camels back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 28:45

Are you surprised with the reaction from the government?

SPEAKER_11 28:48

I'm to be honest, I'm not surprised because they're just proving how far out touched they are. But what I am surprised is is the support we have drummed up out of absolute nothing. Like this started, there's a few of us, agricultural people, and we do a TikTok live a couple days a week just for a chat room.

SPEAKER_10 29:07

I'm saying it.

SPEAKER_11 29:08

And the day of Michael Cahi Live. And we were joking and saying about what we're talking about how hard we're being hit. And last week we said, look at we're going to have to do something. And then we said, sure, we maybe we'll do a bit some bit of a protest, and you know, we'll just see how it goes, and we'll put on a little bit of pressure. And the minute we mentioned it, it was like pulling the clip out of a grenade. It exploded. And it exploded because the people were waiting for someone to pull the trigger. We pulled it by accident, and that's the only way I can drive it. We pulled it by accident, and it just took off. And we can't believe the response. And then yesterday meet what Mart came out and made his stupid, immature, childish statement and insulted everyone from rural Ireland. The minute he put out that statement, the phone started hopping. The protest grew and the support grew. We were here yesterday with about 50 people, and is there 500 here today? If not more. If not more, five, six hundred, and growing. I'm overwhelmed. And we're talking about support, and like Mihal Martin made a comment that it was a small group, but there was a few people holding the country to ransom. Michael Martin is from County Cork. Yesterday, County Cork there was 17 pounds lockdown in his own county. Yeah. And he called this a small protest. Like, how far away from reality is the man? The man is clueless. And he's going around with his head in the sand. But it's about time now somebody in Fienafall pulls him aside. They say, hold on now, Mihal. You're a spent force. You're destroying Fienafal and you're destroying Ireland. So it's time now to take your retirement package and get out of town. And if Fienafall don't say that to them, they're going to collapse completely in rural Ireland. Because they're just like, we can't take this anymore. And it's not that we're going to. We're simply not. Agriculture contractors and plant men and Lurrymen, they're the hardest breed of people in the country. They're men to have struggled. They're men to go out and borrowed lots of money. Bought a lot of machinery and had to meet payments. And like I I would have been in financial trouble back in 08-09. I bought an awful lot of machines in 06 on a five-year lease term. And the crash came in 08-09. And I had the machines and not enough work. And I had to remortgage or refinance machines and spread out the payments for another two years, or the banks were going to repossess them. And a lot of men were unfortunate to lose their machines in that time. But it was and a lot of men didn't actually survive. A lot of men are in the graveyard over it, you know. But I was one of the tougher ones that did survive it, and Christopher Duffy there survived it. We've had machines on the brink of repossession. I've had the repossession Lurry at the gate, and we fought them off, and we we gathered up money and kept them away, and we did a deal and we got gone. And we're up to date whatever now, but we don't want to go back there. We don't want to go back to call out the business again at default of the government. You know? And like the government are saying, you know, oh, the carplex has been used to retrofit houses. I have my insulation, I was double insulated, but I took out a mortgage and did it myself. I'm paying for my own insulated house. Why should I be expected to retrofit other people's houses? I would have a nag culture business. How many houses is Michal Martin retrofitting? Or Simon Harris? Like, let them throw in 20 grand a year if you want to retrofit houses. Like, why pick us to take 20 grand off a small business employing three people full-time all year round? We're in a small business.

SPEAKER_10 32:45

If you're Michal Martin now, if you're in his shoes now, what would you do?

SPEAKER_11 32:51

I would be on the phone tell myself, Christopher Duffy, John Darlin, I said, lads, come in here and tell me how to save Ireland. And we would tell them how to save it, and we would keep Ireland open. And we'll keep the builders building, keep the houses flowing into this into the stream, get down the cost of fuel for everybody. Like we've we've uh home help workers not able to drive the car around the country. A home help worker in rural Ireland does a lot of travel. You know, they could be they'll be going around uh maybe five or six old people, and they could be ten miles apart. They could do two or three hundred kilometres a day, a tank of fuel a day, and they're on minimum wage people, and they can't hack this. And I know one woman and she's in a shocking state. She got a flat wheel last week and she couldn't afford a tire. She pushed the tire and couldn't hadn't the money for a new tire. And she's a home care worker, you know. And it was I had a lovely touch last night where I'd I was when I was on the television last night and I got a taxi out to the state out to Ballymount out to out of TV tree. And the taxi driver said to me, asked me who I was, I told him. Oh he says, You were the man that's one of the organising won the protest. Well I said, I'm the PRO for the protest. But he says, You're doing it for us. Now this man is from India. He's 50 years living in Ireland and he's running a taxi of his own. And he says, You're doing it for myself and my wife and my kids. And I says, I said, if you it's unbelievable I just see you die. He says, You are, he says, he says, we've nobody. We've nobody helping us. And the government have the foot on us left, right, and centre with this fuel. But I said, How much is fuel in India at the moment? And he went on the phone, he rang his brother in India. He says 95 cents a litre. So why is it 95 cent here? All the oil comes out of the same ground. World market we're told, if it goes up there, it goes up here. You know, why can Spain seller have 150? And we're at 230 for white. Like, we can start cutting sailors now in six weeks' time. We're up on 2.5,000, 3,000 litres a day.

SPEAKER_09 34:53

And and in terms of cost, where where is that? Well, my toll current say the current cost.

SPEAKER_11 35:01

Well, this year compared to last year for the salient season now, uh my bill will be up €70,000. Uh we have new machines bought and the finance will be starting with during the summer. And we're we're in dialogue now basically with ourselves to see do we work on with the older machines which are paid for or do we take out the new ones? And we know of this week, like I I I don't have one of the big selling side houses, but those new houses are now going up to 700,800,000 euro. There's two new ones which were bought in the dealers' yard and are cancelled this week because the men says, well, if our diesel bill is going up 70 to 100 grand, how can we pay for the machine and the 100? So now we have machinery dealers with expensive machines sift this stock, they're in trouble. And this is how an economy works. So the government are taking the money out of the economy and they're leaving no money for the economy to run itself. And Michael Martin, Simon Harris, they never worked in the real world, they never ran a business. And it's until you have men that ran a business running the country and know how to save money. Like the children's hospital is the best example of a waste. For a starter's building the wrong place. And if you want to build a building at the most economic price, you build four straight walls, you don't build wrong ones. They built the most expensive building in the world. Is it 18 miss deadlines for a time scale? Start and counting and counting. It started off at 680 million, it's up at two and a half billion and still not finished. And there's no parking out. Like building the biggest hostel in the world in the middle of a city with no parking. That should be out in Blandish Town where they had hundreds of acres of greenfields and off the side of the M50. So that's how how badly managed our government are.

SPEAKER_08 36:40

That's James Gagan speaking to me on O'Connell Street in Dublin yesterday. And as is often the case at demonstrations in Ireland, the politics on the street are accompanied by music. And just to bring you up to date, at this hour on the fourth day of the fuel protests, government is due to meet representative bodies today at 2 o'clock to discuss the ongoing disruption. Thanks for listening to Supply Chain Ireland Podcast. Look out on our social media for updated information on the protests. Until the next time, take it easy, and thanks for listening. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_07 37:56

Out and about with Supply Chain Ireland Podcast.