Raw food V Kibble - what is best for your oodle

The food you feed your oodle is vital for their health & happiness. For years we have been giving our dogs kibble recommended by vets which is not necessarily the best thing to do. If you don’t understand what raw for is or the massive benefits it gives to your dog then listen to this episode. I guarantee you will be surprised by what you learn 

Transcript

00:01.29
tanyawilliams
Hey, everyone it's ah, Tany Williams here chief porson at 3 sport dogs and it's podcast time again and today we're talking food and food is obviously a very important topics for oodles because we know that they love their food or most of them drill apart from those fussy eaters. Ah, but today is a really um, interesting topic and we're going to be talking about um raw food versus kibble and um, just talking a bit more about you know what? what is raw food exactly. Um, the benefits of it and so forth because you may have heard of it but you may not know too much about it. I've got the perfect person to talk to because I am talking to Chris Essex he's the md at big dog Australia as I say top dog but big dog Australia right? Hey Chris how are you.

00:46.98
Chris Essex
Yeah, very well tenure. How are you.

00:51.25
tanyawilliams
I Am fantastic on this gorgeous summer day. Um, tell us a bit more about yourself and big dog.

01:00.75
Chris Essex
Okay, um, well myself first let's start there I I studied food science and and I ended up in the in the small goods world for about 7 years and i.

01:05.98
tanyawilliams
Yeah I'll tell.

01:14.99
Chris Essex
I worked in ah a number of different departments. So I started there as a Qa officer then I end up as the manager moved across to operations I wanted to do something a little bit different and end up being the production manager of this small goods company. We were a division of woolworths@thattimesowewerequitelargeumandbythetimeifinishedupat.

01:28.19
tanyawilliams
Here.

01:34.58
Chris Essex
Production manager I was 26 um we were you I was looking after to 240 staff and 6 or 7 managers and we're pretty well operating seven days a week because as you can imagine woolworths. Well, it's a pretty big company so we had a fair bit of product to punch out to all those meat units and the dalis there. So.

01:41.40
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

01:52.20
Chris Essex
Um I did that and then in a roundabout way I was introduced to I was in a pet shop and I was introduced to a gentleman there and we were talking he said I don't hope never seen you around and we're looking for somebody with your background because there's this new diet that books have been written about but it's not available in retail. So.

02:07.14
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

02:09.79
Chris Essex
Um I did a bit of research on and and I said may I can I can do this for you. No problems at all and as I said I was 26 at the time and had a little bit of experience there with the manufacturing and you know I kind of jumped into it. So I just thought was um, it was a great product. It was all natural was right up my alley at that point in time.

02:21.81
tanyawilliams
Um, yes.

02:28.11
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

02:28.76
Chris Essex
And still is obviously but um I just I just thought it was a wonderful opportunity. What and it was a common sense approach to feeding our animals and um, he just made sense when I was reading the book and then thinking about areasrr and all well we're just really mimicking a while dogs died here. So you know instead of all this process stuff that I can see on the shelves. Let's get this raw. Natural stuff into them and um and the benefits will will certainly be there for everybody to see so that's it that in the nutshell that's how I got into the how I started big dog. Um, yeah, 23 years

02:59.76
tanyawilliams
So how long has big dog been around for an emperors. Wow is it that long. Oh my God I wouldn't there go.

03:06.54
Chris Essex
Yeah, yeah, so and we were the first to bring it into Australia or starts applying a product a raw diet called bath at the time there's a number of different names. There's an evolutionary diet. There's the ancestral diet. Everybody's got a different name for it. But.

03:13.41
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

03:25.39
Chris Essex
To be perfectly honest, It's all very very similar. Um, and you know.

03:26.57
tanyawilliams
Yeah, cool. Um, we're go to get into that as well because obviously there's different. You know if you don't really understand a lot about this Stuff. You just really a lot of the time you're just reading the packaging and trying to get an understanding of what the product is so um, it can be hard to really ascertain? Well, What's Good. What's bad and all that sort of stuff. But. But but let's dive into that. Let's start with um, just defining what raw food is because people might have heard of it and and I've heard that oh you could feed your dogs raw food and whatever but they might not actually know what it is. How do? How do we? Define Raw food.

03:58.60
Chris Essex
Well raw food really is. There's been no temperature abuse to it. So As soon as you start cooking or processing particular products and you you meet meat products. We start denaturing the nutritional content of it. So. Ah, soon as that step is included in the processing you are starting to void nutrients from from the food. So Um, and that's any heat. So even at ° just ah, just a real gentle light cook at ° we'll start just drawing Vitamin C For example, so um, Raw is raw. Keep it raw.

04:28.91
tanyawilliams
Okay, yep.

04:33.59
Chris Essex
And and any sort of heating will um well there then you start to change the the concept of rule. Yeah.

04:38.14
tanyawilliams
Okay, so raw is raw. Okay, so yeah and you mentioned before about bath because that was going to be 1 of my questions I've heard the term barf use before and I'm like oh is that actually different to raw food or it's just another way of describing it.

04:49.47
Chris Essex
Yes, bones that there's the the original name for bath was biologically appropriate raw food but a real easy way for people to remember say it's just bones and raw food. It is bath is is always raw.

04:58.59
tanyawilliams
Roth.

05:07.35
tanyawilliams
Yep.

05:07.81
Chris Essex
Can I be raw and then um, then unfortunately you've got a few of the the companies out there trying to be a little bit clever and calling a kibble Barth and this sort of stuff you know trying to get on the back of that stuff which is is is not correct. It is baf is always supposed to be raw food and ah, um.

05:17.00
tanyawilliams
Um I.

05:26.40
Chris Essex
Not a heat treated product or anything like that.

05:27.60
tanyawilliams
Okay, so they're trying to like you sell a kibble but you use the name baf in a kibble. Yeah.

05:35.60
Chris Essex
Yeah, there's a few out there that will that we call buff concepts and and this or stuff you know and it's a play on the word and unfortunately here in Australia um, our industry isn't regulated and you know there's a lot of these. Um.

05:45.75
tanyawilliams
Yes.

05:51.18
Chris Essex
Clever marketing companies that will try to leverage on the back of maybe a category that's growing like we're experiencing right now in the raw sector this category right now is the largest growing category in the in the pefu born in the pet industry. So.

05:58.50
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

06:09.51
Chris Essex
Which is Fantastic. You know we're starting to see a lot of people doing their work and um and getting their information about Raw feeding and the benefits of it for their pet because their family. Um, you know they really want to see these benefits come through and and the longevity and well-being of their pets. So um. Yeah I think there is a few of these companies just trying to start to leverage off of that. Yeah.

06:31.72
tanyawilliams
Absolutely I think I know myself like my dogs I mean twenty five years ago when I had my other dogs. Obviously you know this sort of food wasn't around they had pal they had like it was just really really basic stuff whereas I know particularly with um I've got three oodles. Um. The last few years I've been giving them less and less kibble and doing a lot of my own sort of mixers or buying big dog and raw foods and just giving them a variety of different things but trying to give them more of the natural food that they would eat like those meats and stuff because same thing I was saying to do research going hang on a minute this kiable stuff. Kibble. Sounds so great when you look at how it's cooked and and and what it is and is that going to be the best thing for my dog. So I think a lot of the time what we don't know what you don't know right? So if people aren't really doing the research that a lot of the time that is listening to someone the vetgo. This is what you got to feed your dog when off they go and that's what they feed their dog but the whole point of having these types of conversations is to. Get them to understand that there are other and better options out there and what does that mean for their dog as well. Um, so what actually goes into raw food.

07:36.60
Chris Essex
Yeah, the the big dog product that we do is as I said at the beginning there. We we really want to mimic a wild dog diet so in a dog and wild or a cat for that undergoers and catches something they're going to consume the the muscle meat. Um.

07:42.55
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

07:51.54
tanyawilliams
Yep.

07:52.41
Chris Essex
First and foremost they will. They'll go straight for the off content because the awful content is so rich in nutrients and that's where they're going to get a lot of their vitamins minerals so they'll consume that first and they eat the muscle meat and they'll have a little chew on some of the bones in there and the ligaments and and then part of the stomach content depending on the size of the animal.

07:55.69
tanyawilliams
Oh I can hear? yeah.

08:09.17
tanyawilliams
Is it.

08:11.28
Chris Essex
If it's only very small. They'll eat the entire stomach on there if it's a bit bigger. They won't you know and they'll eat certain parts and shake. Whatever's still inside their but whilst they're doing that they're still getting a bit of ah the vegetable matter that's coming out of that gut content as well and then these lovely probiotics that's also naturally inside that animal you know, helping to digest.

08:22.39
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

08:30.58
Chris Essex
That plant matter and the enzymes and all these other wonderful internal vectors as well. So It's a combination of all the above. So you've got your your boneless Meat. You've got your your meaty bones and you've got your offles and then um, some of that fruit and veg content and um and Then. With our products we we just had some of the other stuff as well that we think is um, you know highly nutritious and and often very beneficial for the pet.

08:54.82
tanyawilliams
Yeah, so does that mean that can I make the assumption that raw food means it's grain free because it's really about all those raw ingredients. Oh they? Okay, yep.

09:06.41
Chris Essex
No, it's not so there are other ingredients that may be included in some of the raw diets that at our grain So we've just got to be a little bit careful there as well. Um.

09:12.69
tanyawilliams
Right? Okay, yeah.

09:21.30
Chris Essex
So yet there can be an inclusions and some people will go. Okay, well I'm going to make up ah a raw diet but then and people have their own spin on it as as well. Okay, so a raw diet and I'm going to add some oats to it or some rice that I've cooked and then I'm going to put that back in there and blend that through but essentially it's a raw diet. You know so.

09:30.12
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

09:41.50
Chris Essex
Um, yeah, but ah if we're talking about Raw diets. Normally you won't see grains in there but it's always good to effect the labels.

09:41.90
tanyawilliams
Um.

09:44.77
tanyawilliams
That.

09:51.65
Chris Essex
Um, yeah.

09:52.48
tanyawilliams
There you go and that's the theme because I think you read labels and unless you don't know understand how to actually read them. Um, you can just make these big assumptions because I would think okay raw food means like no grain but there you go. We've got to be careful and to look at those labels people. Um.

10:07.68
Chris Essex
Yeah, you just got to be very careful with it and sort of and again you know that will come down to um, our industry and and the regulations around it and you know there's certainly a lot of loopholes and and that's a thing where people can call.

10:16.39
tanyawilliams
You. So What? what sort of ingredients should be in raw food. So when we're at you know at the pet store or whatever and we're looking at all the the different options and we maybe you know we should probably be looking at those labels to see what's in there. Are there certain things that we should be looking for in a raw food.

10:37.16
Chris Essex
Yeah, absolutely the you know to to give a balanced raw diet and that's what we're about is is trying to give a diet that has all the nutrient requirements that the animal needs so in order to do that. There's There's a rule that gets around and it's general.

10:52.49
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

10:57.00
Chris Essex
And it's an indication and I don't want people to get too hung up on it because a lot of people do and this makes it very confusing for everybody but doesn't have to be so there's an 80% rule which is kind of your muscle meat. Um ah muscle meat and your offles and then 10%

11:12.19
tanyawilliams
Um, if.

11:13.91
Chris Essex
Fruit and v 10% of your um, meaty bones like your bone percent but then of that 80% when I say the awful there's about 10% off or that's mixed in with that as well. So you could be a seventy ten ten ten actually to make it even easier. So um.

11:19.80
tanyawilliams
Um, and.

11:30.49
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah, okay, that's a majority part. Really? yeah yeah, yeah.

11:31.70
Chris Essex
That's essentially what you're looking for from a raw diet and and that yeah absolutely when we're talking about carnivores here. So so what they need for energy that and and efficient energy is is high protein highly digestible protein. Um.

11:47.38
tanyawilliams
Um, here.

11:47.98
Chris Essex
You know you don't want the cereals which is unfortunately what all of the kibble manufacturers have as their first inclusion is some sort of cereal because that is actually quite the opposite to what a carnival needs even though there's protein in there.

11:56.99
tanyawilliams
Um, is a.

12:04.15
Chris Essex
It's not a balanced protein and we can probably jump into that a little bit later on what that actually means or or um, you know with your essential and non-essential proteins in there. Um, but certainly you know you want a digestible protein that has all of the Amino acids in there your essentials especially.

12:11.26
tanyawilliams
Is a.

12:21.18
Chris Essex
Because that makes a highly digestible tool.

12:21.93
tanyawilliams
So what sort of examples of that. Are we talking things like you know beef things Chicken Mints turkey that that sort of thing like we're talking that sort of protein.

12:34.54
Chris Essex
Yeah, absolutely yeah, absolutely so that meat and meaty bones are always our our first ingredient and very high levels of it and ah when people become more familiar with understanding labels and percentage than that sort of stuff.

12:41.10
tanyawilliams
Yep.

12:50.50
Chris Essex
You can start reading label and understanding. Okay, well how much meat and that sort of thing is there and because I know the protein levels of meat that I buy and what's that indicating on the label and you'll get a pretty good feel then of you know the inclusions of those ingredients because it was all vegetables. It will dilute your proteins obviously.

13:02.97
tanyawilliams
Um.

13:09.40
Chris Essex
You know you've got a low protein raw food. There's not a low meat gun on there. There's more of the vegetables and that sort of stuff that I'm talking about so with our diets. We're always aiming for about as is as fed we're aiming for about 1312 to let's say 12 to 14% range in protein and we're looking for the same in fat and that.

13:25.47
tanyawilliams
Yeah, and.

13:29.35
Chris Essex
That's a nice little balance there for us but certainly on the ingredients Labels. You're going to ask For. We We do a number of different proteins. But you're going to look for muscle meat. So say say we're doing Beef. We want beef mints in there. We want beef cartilage and bone because we grind all that as well and and that is um. Has its own nutrient profile as Well. We want beef offles which will consist of livers and Kidneys and tripe and spleen and harp and then we'll start going further down the line on that ingredient list and you'll start finding the the fruit and badge inclusions and the eggs and and etc.

13:56.32
tanyawilliams
Um.

14:06.78
Chris Essex
But Majority will be at the top of the of the ingredient list and that's indicating the the amount of meat and everything that's going into that product. Yeah.

14:13.75
tanyawilliams
Okay, that makes sense so why do I mean? let's look at this space. Why raw food is better than kibble and obviously you've you've already mentioned some of this already. Ah often vets will recommend Kiable um, and that's another question as well. I suppose why they do that. But why. Is it so much better for cable for our dogs and can our puppies have it. So should we be? You know is is a raw diet. Okay, for puppies when we get them or do they need to be a certain age to consume that know.

14:43.99
Chris Essex
Yeah, um, couple of questions there all right? So thank you? But Ki why? why do our vets Recommend Qable Um, vets are vets and they're very good at.

14:47.52
tanyawilliams
I've sort of mingled a couple of questions into one I'm sorry yeah.

14:59.46
Chris Essex
Treating sick animals and operations and that sort of stuff the truth of the matter is not a lot of vets are actually well educated on nutrition. Unfortunately, it's like um, the human sector you don't really go to a doctor or Gp to talk about diet.

15:07.66
tanyawilliams
Um, is this.

15:15.90
tanyawilliams
Yeah, he get a confucianist. Yeah.

15:17.47
Chris Essex
Dietary habits worth them correct. So it's exactly the same thing in our industry a vet is recommending a kibble because when they're at uni doing their five or six years with these extensive studies that they do. You know they really get exposed to about two weeks of nutrition and all they really get exposed to is is a kibble diet. So. It's kind of a tick and flick. Yep, we've done that clause move on. You know, sort of thing. Um, there are vets that really do see and appreciate that nutrition plays a really big factor in the health and wellbeing of our pets.

15:37.53
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah, if what.

15:52.26
Chris Essex
And then some of those will go down that path and also just dive into it a little bit more and et etct etc So there are a few out there and but there's still a lot and this is ah this is a challenge that we've certainly taken up as the business is trying to educate the consumer but everybody else all the professionals in the industry as well.

15:56.17
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

16:11.72
Chris Essex
You know to get on board and we are seeing a shift which is so exciting. We are seeing a shift where these professionals are taking on board the raw side of things and I think that's why we're also seeing such growth in our in our area as well in in the raw sector because. You know we are starting get a little bit more support there from the professionals and and they are you know, um, advising on both sides. Things. So yeah, it's It's quite Exciting. So.

16:35.75
tanyawilliams
That's good. Yeah, um, so obviously I mean there's lots of sounds up. There's There's certainly a lot more benefits of of raw food over cable. Do you want to talk through some of those.

16:46.37
Chris Essex
Yeah, sure so you know I always been with our team nature never gets it wrong right? So these dogs meet eating these raw diets for thousands and thousands of years so this is their evolutionary diet. This is the diet that they're supposed to eat and you you look at a dog's body and cat's body.

16:52.70
tanyawilliams
Be.

17:06.25
Chris Essex
Um, you know absolutely to designed to digest protein in a quick efficient manner and move on just like they catchfs some they want to eat it and get it going sort of thing for something else deals in. So um, I've caught and lost my train of thought now Tanya. Yeah, what was the present.

17:11.84
tanyawilliams
Um, yes.

17:18.34
tanyawilliams
Um, benefits of raw food. Yeah, but the benefits of raw food are not I would yeah.

17:24.57
Chris Essex
Go again. What was the question all right. The benefits are all alright, really quick, efficient process processing of of the nutrients because they have not been heat treatedated. They're not void of their nutrition. They're live enzymes when they eat it.

17:34.25
tanyawilliams
The here.

17:42.58
Chris Essex
So That in the lands ons. So So very important for a digestion of all of the the proteins but then also some of the little carbs and everything else. That's that they're consuming. Um, it's in its natural form. It's Digestible. It's available and goes to work and can be and it's when I say digestible. I Mean That's one of the things you can see between the difference between um, a kibble feed a fed dog and ah a raw fed dog. Ah the stools are so much smaller and thetools are so much smaller. Even if you were feeding same amount because the body that nutrition is actually getting absorbed. So.

18:17.41
tanyawilliams
Um, I'd never thought of that. So so if they're on a raw food diet because obviously we look after a lot of dogs. Um, and they're all on different diets and stuff but I have ah I'll need to take notice of that now. So on a raw food diet. They'll actually have smaller poops. Yeah.

18:31.51
Chris Essex
They'll have smaller stools and not as offensive in smell you know that you know and remember back in the old days. Um, you know after 24 hours you've got ah a white stool out in the back yard if you havenn't picked it up by then and that's that's how a how a good.

18:35.14
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

18:42.48
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

18:47.47
Chris Essex
Raw diet stools should look after 24 hours it should start turning white and starting to break down itself if you if you look at a ah highly processed diet those stools can be sitting there for another week has not moved has not broken down or anything and that's because of all the fillers in there and the.

18:51.47
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

19:05.46
Chris Essex
Ah, gums and the additives and the preservatives. That's that's going on there but certainly I always say you know if you weighde what you for kibble if you weighed the food that you feather the dog and then you weighed the stool that came out the other end I don't think you'd have much difference. But if you notice with a raw fed dog.

19:17.54
tanyawilliams
Um, and.

19:22.44
tanyawilliams
Um, well.

19:23.60
Chris Essex
Like half of it because yet the dog is absorbing it and you know and and all those benefits going into town so that that is the event when I'm talking about kibable to to people. It's really if you looked at the list of ingredients on Kibel and then you went looked at a list of ingredients on the back of a box of cereal like I'm talking these high sugar cereals.

19:36.85
tanyawilliams
Um, a.

19:42.00
tanyawilliams
Um, you know? yeah.

19:42.48
Chris Essex
Like fruit loops and whatnot. You know you've got same same going on and's the same thing going to happen I'm pretty sure everybody does want to go and feed their kids fruit loops morning and night you you know what's going to happen there. So it's exactly that's.

19:51.00
tanyawilliams
And you know I think that the the issue is right and I had this conversation we did. Ah um, an episode on fussy eaters which was episode 3 if anyone wants to come and listen to that and we're talking about reading reading the labels and and that sort of thing and there's this assumption that the more I spend on it the better The food was and I went. Actually that um nutritious I spoke to she was like no, that's not always the case just because you're buying the most expensive food doesn't mean it's necessarily the best and I think if we equate everything back to human food as Well. It can be the same thing as you said lucky and buy. Cheap and you know the cheap nasty sugar-filled cereal isn't going to be as good as ah, a really good musley but you know bacon or something is going to be better or ah, bacon Iss Always my choice anyway. But ah, but if you you compare the types of diets and the nutritional benefits of a you know human diet to a dog diet.. There's some similarities.

20:34.89
Chris Essex
Um, absolutely there.

20:43.30
Chris Essex
Oh they absolutely is and the same illnesses and diseases that we're suffering from because we are starting to feed not so much the raw but the highly processed diet like we know that 94% of the dogs out. There are still fed this high care. Well highly processed diet.

20:45.18
tanyawilliams
There Tis what awaiting them.

20:50.87
tanyawilliams
Ah.

20:58.47
tanyawilliams
Um, in more.

21:00.78
Chris Essex
And if you actually mirror image the illness and disease that you're seeing in humans and the growth on those you know the dogs and the cats aren't too far behind on that same growth curve because we're feeding them the same way. So your cancers your diabetes all these inflammatory diseases are starting.

21:10.78
tanyawilliams
Um, oh yeah.

21:19.32
Chris Essex
Um, more and more prevalent because of the especially because of the way we're feeding them.

21:23.33
tanyawilliams
Are there any it doesn't sound like it. But I've beent ask a question anymore. Are there any natives to feeding your raw diet.

21:29.58
Chris Essex
Ah, yeah, look some dogs just don't like rule. Yeah, but they just don't like the smell of it or or the taste or whatever it may be. There is a few of them out there and yeah there there is some like that. Okay and you know it's always best to feed something. So.

21:39.53
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah, no fussy buzz. Yeah.

21:48.24
Chris Essex
First and foremost you've got to get that energy to your dog. So now if they're turning their nose up there. There are ways that you can slowly introduce them to raw feeding. But if you just can't get them there. Um, yeah, know that that is is probably the only. The only thing I could say about negative with.

21:49.30
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

22:06.16
Chris Essex
Brought just some some dogs just don't want to don't want to eat it so you have to feed something but then my option then would certainly not be the kibble. It would be a lightly processed lightly cooked and see if that weren't because then you're not going to lose as much nutrient profile and well the the nutrients are there but you will lose a little bit.

22:09.20
tanyawilliams
Um.

22:21.27
tanyawilliams
Um, media. Well.

22:24.42
Chris Essex
But you've got much more nutrition sitting in that lightly cooked product and what you do in in a bag of Kiel I mean that bag of kibble can sit there for twelve months and not go off. It's kind of telling you the story exactly right? whereas if you take 1 of our patdies out and you put it on the bench and you forget to feed it or whatever and put it back in the fridge.

22:30.72
tanyawilliams
Um, yes, it all right.

22:42.20
Chris Essex
You know by tomorrow. It's starting to turn which is exactly what it should be done because that's the that's the nature of ah of a raw food that doesn't app preserve is coloring spellings or anything like that. That's how how it will start breaking down. So yeah, tilkin cheese.

22:42.78
tanyawilliams
Yes.

22:53.32
tanyawilliams
Like perfect tens. Yeah and look I was Goingnna ask before if you can cook raw food but that you mentioned obviously that when you do cook it. You're going to destroy the nutrients and the goodness. So you're gonna take a lot of that stuff out by doing that.

23:06.90
Chris Essex
You You absolutely will and the other problem with our patties obviously is we grind bone and there are bone bone particles and chips in in our um in our patties so you really don't want to be heating them or cooking them because then they become hard and then there can be issues with the dogs.

23:16.14
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

23:20.16
tanyawilliams
Sure. Yeah, so if they are a bit fussy and they I mean you can't get them to eat like a fully raw diet I Imagine it'd be.

23:24.49
Chris Essex
Especially small blocks team So we don't want to go down that path.

23:34.69
tanyawilliams
Process would be just introducing small amounts at a time and maybe mixing in what the what the with they've got to try and get them used to it is that where you'd recommend. Yeah.

23:40.86
Chris Essex
Yeah, a hundred percent that's that's our transition say what we're talking about and we we recommend around two weeks to transition across, but there's a lot of benefits with that transition as well because you're actually changing the ph of the dogs belllet tummy. So we're a kibble fed die.

23:48.48
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

23:55.19
tanyawilliams
And.

24:00.71
Chris Essex
Ah, kibble-fed dogs ph of their stomach may be sitting around the three and a half four percent ph a raw feed eating fed dog will sit around the 2 two and a half so becomes highly a acidic. So it also with that transition it it helps with that transitioning of the ph. Um.

24:04.19
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

24:19.80
tanyawilliams
Um.

24:19.62
Chris Essex
And yeah, absolutely you know we always start 20% of the of of raw flight big dog 80% kibble and monitor their sttons. The dogs happy after a day or 2 then you can go to seventy thirty 60 forty fifty fifty change all the way down up until your 100% raw fed out the twowe mark somewhere around there.

24:28.74
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah, folly.

24:36.44
tanyawilliams
Um, if.

24:37.27
Chris Essex
Um, that's the safe and it and it is two weeks a lot of the dogs can transition overnight or someone can be introduced to a raw f by the the seventh day. But it's really just watching your dog and and the the back end really tells. The story is their stool. So.

24:47.16
tanyawilliams
A.

24:53.25
Chris Essex
If they go on the toilet property properly and it's not loose or anything like that and there's still a happy little pup away you go, you can transition that tells the story.

25:00.50
tanyawilliams
Yeah, and I mean that gut Health is so important as well. So feeding them things are going to be that are going to be good for their gut and help them you know process. All that food is obviously going to be a much better thing as well.

25:10.71
Chris Essex
Yeah, absolutely and you know we do have a probiotic range that we always recommend from a transitioning point of view and an everyday fee because there's so important so many studies are out there now I mean I just I just love the probiotics. You know I think it's it's very important, but.

25:19.97
tanyawilliams
Um, left.

25:27.75
Chris Essex
We always try even naturally with our our diets. We've got a probiotic and prebiotic blend in there. You know we've got green bananas going in there that is a natural prebiotic because the Inulin factor and that yeah so the probiotic is the bugs. The good bugs.

25:39.21
tanyawilliams
What's the difference Chris between a prebiotic and a probiotic. Yeah.

25:45.79
Chris Essex
And the the prebiotic is the food for the bugs.

25:47.85
tanyawilliams
Oh I had no idea there was such a thing as prebiotic.

25:51.11
Chris Essex
Yes, the preva that you want to make sure that the bugs you've got them in the in the digestive track want to make sure that you're feed them as well. So they can keep replicating and and it's incredible when you really get into I mean they replicate every 20 minutes in the perfect environment. So you've got a million 20

25:57.94
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

26:06.89
tanyawilliams
I'm not poor.

26:10.32
Chris Essex
20 minutes later you got 2000000 and so on and so on so that's with um, that's really what happens happens with food poisoning when you're actually taking in the wrong bacteria um, echo up to 12 to 24 hours till you really feel the effects of that of that you know bad.

26:21.66
tanyawilliams
Rot.

26:29.11
Chris Essex
Indian or whatever ate must now it can kick in twelve later but it's um, that's the life of the bugs right? But um, yeah, with back to our raw food. We're always adding product. So the prebiotics as the set is the green banana full of inulin and that is like ah a really.

26:36.37
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah, that plug. Yeah.

26:48.48
Chris Essex
Good source of food for the bugs. They love that food and then we've got the natural probos that comes in from the goats way that we add to to every one of our mixes as Well. That's so full of all the lactic acid bacteria and that so you know we're we're supplementing along the way to help the digestion Of. Of what we mix and even though we grind quite fine and you know we do get called out on social media from time to and say oh, it's too mushy or um, you know there's no chunks and then well that's that's actually what we're trying to achieve because the the dogs and cats have such a small digestive track. We want to help that absorption. There's a limited amount of time right? So the finer that we can grind and help that digestive process the more efficient and more digestible all those nutrients that we're trying to get into the fat dog is going to get in their system.

27:37.22
tanyawilliams
And to me that makes sense because if if it's easy for them to eat. It's going to be easy for it to go through their whole system which is not going to cause problems. Yeah.

27:47.29
Chris Essex
Ah, hundred percent homelessly you know we we really want them to get the maximum benefit. They absolutely can from the food you know with less work for them internally really is what we're trying to achieve.

27:56.19
tanyawilliams
Yeah, okay, um, puppies can we give puppies so you know when they brought them home at ten twelve weeks or however old they might be raw food.

28:05.21
Chris Essex
Yeah, yeah, it's a very good conversation to have with your breeder or where you've bought the pup from so you really want to know what that've been feeding now if there's been ah, a combination of raw and a little bit of dry. Well, that's great. You're you're halfway there.

28:15.30
tanyawilliams
This. Yeah.

28:22.65
Chris Essex
Um, but if it's just been dry. Well then you've got you've got to go into that transition stage very important very important. Um, but I do know some some breeders out there. Um and very professional breeders that are introducing raw.

28:26.36
tanyawilliams
Okay, yeah.

28:41.58
Chris Essex
Raw mints and that to some of their puppies that are four weeks old so yeah so it's a really fine mint that they're giving them. You know they're not big bone chips or anything like that. But they're already starting to train that pub to you know their stomach and the ph of the stomach to accept the raw.

28:45.51
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah, really and is.

29:00.62
Chris Essex
As it's going so you know it's um, some of them are really introducing it quite early with no problems for many years they've been some of these breeders have been breeding. You know these high quality stuff and whatnot but ah look if you get your puppy home twelve weeks normally eight weeks you you might get in between the 128 me week Mark whatever it may be talk to your breeder find out where you've been fed and if you want introduce raw you absolutely can't but just do that transition stage. Yeah yep.

29:23.10
tanyawilliams
Know Gradually Yeah, Okay, now you mentioned before about balance protein now is that the same as have you had the term crude protein is that the same like what is crude protein like. Let's sort of have that have that conversation I'm really curious as to what the differences are.

29:43.60
Chris Essex
Yeah, Cru Protein is really just telling the the consumer of the amount of protein that's in that product Now there is a ah method for testing crude protein and that's really just checking how much Nitrogen is coming out of that product.

29:49.12
tanyawilliams
We are okay.

29:58.27
tanyawilliams
A.

30:00.25
Chris Essex
And I'm like go all down that path here. It's done but it's all encompassing So It's not just.. For example, we have um the meat and the offals and the the bone and the veg and everything in then the eggs some of these all have proteins in them So collectively. The crude protein is what that food is giving. As a protein level there and then sort of thing. It's not an individual sort of thing. It's It's what that food is collectively. What's the protein level. That's what you're getting So Essentially when we put protein on our pack. That's what we're talking about this if you feed as is you're going to get this percentage of protein in this diet.

30:23.86
tanyawilliams
Um.

30:36.93
tanyawilliams
Is it? yep.

30:38.84
Chris Essex
Coming out but the the thing with protein is that we need to be aware of is what makes protein and protein are a combination of Amino acids or 22 of them and then you break them down and some are essential and some are non-essential and the essential must be. Achieve through your diet.. The body cannot make it whereas the no-nessential your body can't so that's what we call them noesential but the beauty but the beauty here is with protein and raw food diets with a high meat base is that all those essential Amino acids are there.

31:03.86
tanyawilliams
Rob okay.

31:15.52
Chris Essex
And majority of the non-essential ones are there as well. So out of the 22 you've probably got about 20 of your amino acids there and the why you need all amino acids is they work synergistically um they need they need they work with each other to make sure that you're getting the best amount of protein in the most.

31:21.22
tanyawilliams
Um I have.

31:33.44
Chris Essex
Digestible protein. So the body can go and repair and recover and muscle growth, etc, etc. Um, now if you're buying a kiable and they they promote high protein because they're on a dry matter basis. So they they actually when they say twenty five thirty percent protein Pat's on a dry matter basis. So we're still talking and people say well yours is only 12 Chris yours is only 12 % protein so much more in kiable but we're working on as is kibble's working on a dry matter basis. So that we're really diluting. Essentially what you were saying without buy about. 70% because they have diets are 70% moisture. You think a meat 70% moisture in there. The the fruit v is up to about 90 etc etc. So you're diluting our results. So if you actually worked on a dry matter basis like for light between ours in kibble we'd have so much more higher protein than what those kiables are.

32:23.72
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

32:27.62
Chris Essex
But back to the protein levels in the kiable if you look at the ingredients. They're high grain based um and now some of those grains if you really went into the amino acid profile. You'll find that there might be 4 or 5 essential amino acids so all of a sudden now those 9 you're you're losing 4 or 5 and there might be some non-nessential in there as well. But it's not a complete protein and and when we say not complete means there's all 9 essential amino acids must be present and you'll find that those cuables are not present now sorry are not complete proteins unless they have been fortified with other amino acids to try to balance it out. So it's quite a lot It's sort of like a a frankenstein approach right to recreating a piece of meat and then I just go well, why don't you just be meat because that's what you're trying to recreate that was a mouthful I don't know if I explained that. Okay.

33:09.70
tanyawilliams
Um, and I.

33:13.40
tanyawilliams
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it makes sense. It's sort of like a comparing Phil. It take to a dolls like it' like 1 ne's going to be really good for you. 1 ne's just sounds like it could be okay because I talk about it's Australian beef and its insist and it's that but really, it's what a lot of lot of crap. Really.

33:22.21
Chris Essex
Yeah.

33:30.42
Chris Essex
You 100% you know I think that there's a post on social media where a gentleman's talking about the the french fry right? And how many everybody thinks it's potato but it's not. There's like 17 ingredients in there.

33:32.20
tanyawilliams
It.

33:38.20
tanyawilliams
Death.

33:45.79
Chris Essex
Yeah, and this is what's going on with kibble and that as well. Um, they say well hold on it's complete and balanced. Well, it's complete and balanced to the Afco standards which I'm not a fan of because it's all been created for kibble but they only they only get to those levels by the inclusion of synthetic vitamins and minerals. So.

33:48.84
tanyawilliams
Um, and.

34:04.61
Chris Essex
Again and the digestability factor and all that sort of stuff is is is not ideal. Um and no can the body really tolerate you just putting your body under more pressure trying to process these synthetics.

34:15.24
tanyawilliams
I think ah common sense needs to prevail in some of these situations if you can leave a food I just set out in ah in a in a you know in a cupboard and it's can sit out for twelve months and be perfectly fine still and obviously it's going to have a bunch of prove preservatives and stuff in it to keep it that way. Um. So you've got to I mean you've got to start to think about well hang on what foods am I giving my dogs um and if it is for you know those preservatives and and very carb. You know based and and whatever then just like human food. It's not going to be the best thing for us I mean look at our own diets. You know.

34:50.32
tanyawilliams
Higher protein diets. There's you know all that scientific evidence to say that it's much better for us as people and you know animals are the same. Yeah.

34:55.81
Chris Essex
Yeah, yeah, that's that's exactly right? you know and it is common sense I think that's what we refer to our diet and it's the common sense approach to being you dogged to be perfectly honest, you know if there's products sitting in fridges that are sitting there for 3

35:06.86
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

35:14.91
Chris Essex
Four months well you know that's not the common behavior of a piece of meat. So then you you start wondering? Well what is there is there a preserve it or is there some sort of processing technique a further processing technique that's void. Some of the nutrition in some sort of capacity or way and it's the only way that it can because you know.

35:16.55
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

35:30.31
tanyawilliams
Um, yes.

35:34.42
Chris Essex
We all know know what meat should be doing it should You can't leave it lying around for a certain reason.

35:40.50
tanyawilliams
Definitely not um, can you share Chris a bit more about some of the products that big dog sell I buy the little sachets. Um, so you get the little sachet and you can just like there. There's a meal and you can easily just pop it in in their bowl and and they hoover it down. Um.

35:55.66
Chris Essex
Um, yeah.

35:56.19
tanyawilliams
But but you guys have got ah I know you got different flavors in that. But then you've mentioned and got probiotics. Do you want to share some of the products that you guys actually have and where can we buy them from as well.

36:02.54
Chris Essex
Yeah, love to so we've got a really nice range there. We call our core range of um of of different flavors of our food and and and obviously it all goes by big dog and there are three kilo pack and there's twelve two hundred and fifty Gram patdies that you referring to the sachets.

36:16.57
tanyawilliams
Okay, yeah.

36:21.34
Chris Essex
All individual but you can just um, you can tear. They're all perforated as well. So you can tear one off leave yeah leave it in the freezer and then just pull one off every day as you need or leave them in the fridge or whatever the way you want to handle it but we have a full range of the flavors there and it's really nice to rotate.

36:24.98
tanyawilliams
Yeah, easy break off. Absolutely.

36:41.50
Chris Essex
Um, all the all the different flavors as well because you're going to get a different Amino acid profile that I was talking about you know Turkey has a different profile to beef and chicken and and absolutely we can't sit there and eat the same thing even at.

36:46.36
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

36:49.70
tanyawilliams
And it's good to give the dogs variety too I think as well.

36:57.23
Chris Essex
Matter It doesn't matter how healthy it is. You can't eat the same thing every day and we don't expect the dogs to either. So you know change that around they get excited at dinnertime or breakfast. Whatever it may be and and you know just by by keeping it different. Um, so we've got that core range and then we call our scientific range which is our well-being and our sensitive skin. We know that 80% of the dogs out there suffer from some sort of skin issue within their lifetime. So. It's really Easy. We got really high omega 3 contents that's coming naturally from the salmon inclusion that we put in there. Um.

37:20.98
tanyawilliams
Um I see.

37:29.91
Chris Essex
You know and we'll also add some flaxeed oil and and cold press flaxeed oil by the way. Um and a few of the other ingredients there that have that that really nice amega 3 profile and no beef or chicken in that because a lot of dogs. We know out there are allergic to the chicken and beef. So we don't want to put those in there. So the dogs can't.

37:36.33
tanyawilliams
Um, my head.

37:48.84
tanyawilliams
Yes.

37:49.70
Chris Essex
Have access to the ah the wellbeing is really for the older dog very high amega three as well. It's got a lovely herbal blend through it to help with the organ health and the omega three s agains to help with the older dogs. They knowm probably putting on a little bit of weight so they're a little bit joiny as well and that wellbeing is a lower fat option.

38:03.54
tanyawilliams
A boy.

38:08.26
Chris Essex
And then we have our allergy range which is Kangaroo Turkey and goat and that's specifically for those dogs that unfortunately do suffer from a ah protein allergy that they they just can't handle chicken because we do have in our core range chicken is their bone base in in the core range. So when we use chicken because it is.

38:15.40
tanyawilliams
Yeah, yeah.

38:21.42
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

38:27.30
Chris Essex
It's highly palatable for the dog but it's also a nice lot. Yeah yeah, and it's a nice soft bone sort of thing as well. So you know again, just check your labels if you know that your dog um cannot eat. Ah ah, some proteins I mean it's fully declared on the on the packs thererefore.

38:27.40
tanyawilliams
Oh you usually love it. Yeah, whether they can have it or not's sort of the thing. Yeah.

38:44.25
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

38:46.59
Chris Essex
The pet parents there and then we've got a probiotic so we brought out our very first probiotic about oh I want to say two years ago. Um maybe two and a half feet longer we you know we're probably a little bit ahead of our time with it to be perfectly honest and then we've slowly slowly slowly built and we've got a great product. There. It's the most powerful in the market. 20000000000 cffus per dose 5 gram dose um not offensive. You know it's palatable doesn't smell terrible. We add our own green freeze Dr Green banana to it as well. So we know that we're getting a really good probiotic level but also prebiotics that we spoke about. We've got digestive enzymes in there as well. So it just really highly complementary to our food and just recently we brought out another 2 different probiotic products which is the the stress and anxiety um a lot of the dogs out there. We know are exposed to to stress in in some form or not.

39:34.66
tanyawilliams
Me Yeah, yeah.

39:42.25
Chris Essex
Um, and then we've got the sooth and support which is is really you know you would have heard about leaky gut. So there's a lot of really good um inclusions in our soth and support to help repair the leaky gut which can manifest itself out into a number of different diseases and ways as well. You know So um.

39:47.59
tanyawilliams
Yep.

40:01.67
Chris Essex
That's a really nice part but I also think that's a really nice probiotic to add a craw to include in the dog's meal when you're transitioning because you know we've got some of the herbs in a like chemomilema. That's just nice and gentle and the dogs tumming to to just aid that um that transition. So um, they're really.

40:08.75
tanyawilliams
Um, yeah.

40:19.49
Chris Essex
The the extras we did. We did go down the freeze dried path there for a little while but just beyond that. So so saturated that market you know so we've really just refocused again on on our raw food and and offering that we've got a few new products coming along um as well in the near future. Which is going to be a little bit more convenient for the smaller dog owners and then that product can be used as ah as a meal or as a topper an inclusion in Kibba or whatever they or treat. Whatever way they see it and of course we do have our two kilo rolls which we're extending that range as well. Just for the.

40:43.52
tanyawilliams
Um, and hi.

40:48.00
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

40:56.15
Chris Essex
The people with the bigger dogs and have a couple of dogs to make it a little bit more cost effective again for them now.

40:59.21
tanyawilliams
Yeah, cool and we can get these from pet stores right? That's where I get mine from? yeah.

41:05.87
Chris Essex
Yeah, absolutely we? Um, you know we're in over 1000 stores now. Um across Australia and you know certain the pet stock have us in every one of their stores. Um petp barn have us in some of their stores. Definitely city farms open western Australia.

41:16.59
tanyawilliams
Yeah.

41:23.12
Chris Essex
In those been um, a lot of the independents as well. So normally you can you can see us in ah in a pet store now which is quite different to twenty three years ago when you know you'd be lucky if you had an a freezer in a pet store and they might have been having some bones or some mince down the back. But. You know as I said the category has really grown and um.

41:40.91
tanyawilliams
Ah, well it was some thing like you'd never heard of raw diets or any the sort of stuff we're talking about even like probiotic health you imagine having that conversation with someone twenty five years ago about adult. They'd be look um what the hell are you talking about? yeah.

41:50.50
Chris Essex
Um, what are you talking about prolock bugs. You know I don't want bugs you know and that's been a bit of an issue with raw food. You know they get this bad Rabbi it's full of bacteria. Yeah, you know what? actually it is and.

42:00.20
tanyawilliams
Ah.

42:05.44
tanyawilliams
Yeah I surprise debate.

42:07.26
Chris Essex
Majority of it is really really good and really really healthy for your dog. It's not a bad thing Bacteria It's a really good thing and you know people knew how much bacteria we as a human beings actually have you carry ourselves. It's ah it's quite high opening.

42:20.29
tanyawilliams
Yeah, and that's the thing right? It's about education and as I said before you don't know what you don't know until you start to educate yourself a bit and and do some research and read things and talk to people then be like oh I didn't know any of this stuff like even our conversation today I mean I. Think I know a lot of stuff about dogs because I've always owned dogs. We're pet Siterss you do, but there's still stuff every single time I have a conversation with someone on like go Oh My God I had no idea about that I never thought of that before and it need need to rethink about what I'm doing there. Um, and again, it's just about educating yourself and going. Well how can I. Have the happiest healthiest dog possible. Um, and I think that's our responsibility as as Pep porents is to you know to do that and give them that best life.

42:59.29
Chris Essex
Um, yeah.

43:06.61
Chris Essex
Yeah, 100% and then you know there's community social media communities in that out there now and they're all they're all sharing this information and sharing the benefits and and the results that they're seeing by by using raw food and I know a lot of our out.

43:13.65
tanyawilliams
Um.

43:25.00
Chris Essex
Customers out. There are actually copy feeding they they may be doing 50% raw and 50% kiable that's great you know even all the all the studies in that that are now coming out on raw food are showing that you are increasing your dog's life just by including a minimum of 10% raw to their diet. So.

43:41.90
tanyawilliams
If that's important.

43:43.61
Chris Essex
You know the co-feeders out there. No problems at all, um, doing a great job and if you can just include some sort of percentage of raw to their diet. You know you, you're going to get um a longer life. You know a happier dog. Well-being the whole lot.

44:00.22
tanyawilliams
Ill hear do yeah yeah, ah thank you so much chrise there's so much stuff that we've spoken about today that I know there's going to be really practical and really useful for um, anyone that's got a noodle or any sort of dog for that for matter we don't discriminate.

44:00.69
Chris Essex
All included. You know.

44:15.52
tanyawilliams
Um, and like again you know as as we said, it's about just people just doing a little bit of research themselves and and listening to these types of things and going. Well what can I do but thank you so much for sharing everything that you've shared because it's been. Super super helpful for me and I know it will be super super helpful for other people as well. So I really appreciate your time my pleasure and we will. We should chat again soon. See you Chris.

44:32.18
Chris Essex
No, that's my absolute pleasure tenure. Thanks for having me on absolutely say 10