The Truth About Crate Training: Benefits, Mistakes and Success Tips

Thinking about crate training but not sure where to start? In this episode, I talk to Eliza Kennedy from the Paws Room to unpack everything dog owners need to know about crate training, including the benefits, common misconceptions, and practical tips for success.

Whether you have a new puppy, a rescue dog, or an adult dog who has never used a crate before, we'll explain how to introduce the crate positively, avoid common mistakes, and help your dog see their crate as a safe and comfortable retreat.

We'll also discuss separation anxiety, toilet training, overnight sleeping arrangements, and how crate training can support your dog's wellbeing when done correctly.

If you've ever wondered whether crate training is cruel, how long your dog should spend in a crate, or how to stop crate-related whining and barking, this episode is for you.

In this episode you'll learn:

•  The benefits of crate training for puppies and adult dogs 
•  How to choose the right crate size 
•  Common crate training mistakes to avoid 
•  Tips for creating positive crate associations 
•  How crate training can assist with toilet training and routine 
•  What to do if your dog hates the crate 

Perfect for Cavoodle, Oodle and small dog owners looking to build confidence and create a calm, happy home environment. Listen now and discover how crate training can become one of the most valuable tools in your dog's training journey.

Eliza Kennedy is the Co-Founder of The Paws Room, a premium Australian dog furniture brand inspired by her own anxious Shar Pei and a passion for thoughtful design. After experiencing the positive impact of a calm, den-like space on her dog's wellbeing, she set out to create beautiful alternatives to traditional wire crates. Today, The Paws Room helps dogs feel safe, settled and at home while creating spaces owners are proud to have in their homes.  

https://www.thepawsroom.com.au/ 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today, we are talking crate training. Now, crate training is something that seems to spark a lot of debate in the dog world, but we're going to talk about how positive crate training can actually be a great thing for your oodle, how to do it, where to start, what you need, and all things crate and enrichment. So keep listening because you're going to love this one. Who's positively spoiled? If you have a spoiled oodle just like me and many others, then you're listening to the right podcast. Positively spoiled is a podcast focusing on helping you raise a happy and healthy oodle. And we know just how fussy, cute, loving, and sometimes challenging they can be. But hey, us two-legged can't resist a cute, four-legged face. I'm Tanya, chief porson, pet connect, and temporary porn to many small dogs that are part of the extended oodle family here at Tree Sports Dogs. As a lifelong small dog owner and temporary porrent to many other oodles and many small dogs, I have seen it all. And this podcast is here to help you raise the happiest and healthiest oodle that you can. And hey, we don't discriminate. So if you have any other breed of dog, you'll find the podcast relevant and helpful too. So pause up and let's get into today's episode. Hello everybody, it's Tanya Williams here from Three Sport Dogs and the host of the Positively Sport Podcast. And we're back for another episode this week. And this week we're talking about something that can be sometimes controversial. I'm not quite sure why, but uh, when you mention the word crate, some people get very um upset or have very strong opinions about crates. But today we're going to be talking to um Eliza Kennedy, who is the co-founder of The Pause Room. And these guys, if you have not seen their crates, are beyond like these are larks, baby. They are beautifully designed crates that you want in your home because they look like furniture. That we'll we'll get to that soon, but first we're going to talk about um crate training. But before we get started, Eliza, do you just want to give people a brief intro about who you are, what you do, and how you started, um how the you know the pause room came about?

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Yeah, sure. Thanks, Tanya. Um so I think um probably not an unfamiliar story for a lot of founders. I think we we came into this because we experienced the problem ourselves. Um, and then uh, you know, realised that if we were, you know, if we were having trouble, and in this instance it was finding a crate that didn't look like a cage and an eyesore in your, you know, in your living spaces, and probably other people were too. Um, so I I don't have a background in um in retail or e-commerce or furniture. I'm actually a recruiter by trade. Um, and my partner, who is the co-founder of the pause room, comes from in contract management. So we were an unlikely pair, and we still call ourselves a couple of novices. Um start somewhere. Yeah, you've got to start somewhere, right? And I think you know, it was really a shared love of dogs and design that, you know, that kind of was the foundation behind starting the pause room. And I was lucky enough at the time to be living in an architectural house that had a lot of birch plywood for the joinery, and uh and it was COVID at the time. And I don't know if you if you sort of came across this story at all, but there was a brand that um got quite a bit of media attention at the time called Isa King because their business was creating flat-packed stage furniture from plywood, um, which was used in kind of big concerts and performances and and and theatre, and that industry obviously totally died during COVID. And so they had pivoted to making work from home desks, um, and they were quick put together. Um, and I and I got one at the time, and I was like, why couldn't you have a crate that was like this, you know, that you could quickly put together but still looked nice in your home? Um, and what sort of came from working with the industrial designer wasn't quite as um uh uh let's say it was a little bit more elaborate, and and it's become the very beautiful premium teddy that we have now, but that was sort of where it all started. And yeah, so from our kind of recruitment and contract management backgrounds, we're now um, you know, kind of working together across. I I look at more of the the marketing side and product development side for the pause room. And um, Tom is like really involved in all the operations, the logistics and inventory and the side that you know it doesn't excite me quite so much, but kind of how it's all. 100%, a hundred percent, like tricky customers, that's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Um so crate training is one thing that sometimes and I remember way back when um you know when our girls were little, I remember a behavioralist coming in and she said she crate her dog stays in a crate all day, and I'm going, oh my god, like all day. And I remember freaking out, thinking, oh my god, that feels so cruel. And when she explained a bit more about crate training and why why it is important and how it all works, I was like, okay, it's beginning to make sense to me now. And I think you get this picture in your mind of exactly like a cage, whether in this cage, um, and you just think, oh, that doesn't seem like the right thing to do, right? But why do you think it creates so much debate when you talk about a crate for dogs these days?

SPEAKER_01 5:38

I I think it's all of those things you just mentioned. I think the aesthetic is definitely a part of it. It doesn't help us as humans to have something that absolutely looks like a cage.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Um, I think the second thing is they can be um associated with punishment, you know, putting a dog away when something has, you know, when they've done something perceived as being wrong or bad behaviours, which is almost the opposite of how and when you should, you know, use a crate. But I think that's definitely got a negative association. And then I think also, yeah, misuse, like keeping a dog in a in a crate for an extended period. And I just caveat that by saying it is appropriate for some dogs and dogs who've been trained in that way to be in a crate for for several hours. It's not that that's always not appropriate, but we we generally wouldn't be saying to people, oh yeah, come and get one of our crates and then put your dog in it all day. You know, it's it's definitely to if that is the outcome that needs to happen for a particular reason, there's a training process that goes through that. So I think, I mean, I can I can say my own personal experience, because I'm I should caveat this whole conversation by saying I am not a trainer. Anything I sort of share today will come from, you know, I guess the opportunity we've had to work with so many trainers and get, you know, and get sort of professional advice around it. But with our own experience during COVID, we got a Sharpay puppy, and um, I can say hand on heart, we were completely um ill-informed, uneducated, um, and ignorant to how different a Sharpay was to a caboodle because we had a caboodle at the time, who very, very different easiest dog in the world. And so um, yeah, Paolo, our Sharpay, did develop some behaviour issues and um he did have a chomp on a few on a few people because he's very, very, very, very highly strung and anxious. And so, strangers touching him, we learned pretty quickly wasn't a good idea. Um, and so that was when we worked with trainers who introduced crate training to us, and it was kind of like a not negotiable, this is what you're gonna need to do. You need to set him up for success, you need to, you know, obviously have people safe coming into your home, and you'll find it's really positive. And my own response to it, Tanya, was like, um, I really don't want to do that. So I think for me, if I think back to that, it was this idea of caging my dog. You know, I'm like, oh, I want my dogs to be caged.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

That's exactly how it feels, doesn't it? Yeah, you feel like, oh my god, I'm doing something bad because I'm putting them in this cage, and that's not it at right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

And I think the biggest shift for me was I I wanted to follow the trainer's advice, even if it felt reluctant because we loved our dog and we wanted to set him up for success. The monumental shift in thinking for me was watching both my dogs, my adult Cavoodle and Paolo, the Sharpe, choose to go in. And I know people think that that's you know, that's that how that that can't be right, that's nonsense. But remember, the trainer said to me, Okay, you tell him on your mat and he'll go in and he'll stay there. And I laughed. I was like, Yeah, right. And he did, and he did, you know, and at this time it was one of the wire cages, no fancy mat, you know, just and that, and I watched the dogs over several weeks just not always, sometimes, you know, it can be up on the couch or in the bed or whatever, but choosing to, you know, to go in and and and that was when I that was the big shift for me, going, oh, okay, it's not about locking them in, it's about giving them a space that they're seeking out and finding like a little safe place.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Yeah, and I think that's the thing, it's giving them their own little space. So I think of it like a little, their own little room where that's their little, so they want to they want to have some quiet time and or whatever, they can go in there and that's their particular space. And I remember the behaviouralists that we work with as well saying that dogs are denny animals and they actually like to be in these smaller and uh enclosed spaces because it makes them feel comfortable and safe. And I was like, that actually makes sense when you when you think about it like that. Because I remember our girl Tia, we never crate trained our dogs either. And when um we would have guests come with a crate, we'd go, she's scooching up inside someone else's crate, and she would get in there and get all cuddly and be like, Where's Tia? And she'd be in someone's crate. So we went, Well, she seems to really like this. And then we thought, that's the thing, it's her way of getting out from every away from everyone else and creating this own little zone. So we just we bought one for her, which she would use during the day and you'd go, where is she? Oh, she's tucked up in a crate, she would take herself in and out. And I saw it as being a more of a positive thing because I was like, okay, well, she needs a space a bit like us as humans. I want to get away from my husband for an hour. I'm just gonna go in another room, you know. So that's their way of doing it too, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

I've heard one of the trainers, I like the way they refer to it as a bit like um a cot for a baby, you know, you don't bring your baby home and just put them on the floor, you know, you you you put them in a cot. Um, and similarly with a teenager, you know, if they didn't have a room with a door, they would the whole family would suffer. Um, and so it is it is very much, as you said, it very much about just kind of giving them their their own space. And you think about it, like when and crates aren't for everyone, and that's that's totally understandable. But what I've noticed is that dogs will tend to create their own den, especially if they're feeling a bit uh uncertain about what's going on. So, you know, it could be visitors are coming, it could be storms. I think a lot of dogs do this in storms. They'll go under a table or under a couch or under a bed, they'll find something where they've got something over their heads, you know, and they'll and they'll seek it out. So I think it's just a um it's just kind of a more designated version of of that. Yeah. When they have one, then they'll they'll make their own, you know? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

So I mean, I guess we've sort of touched on a little bit, I guess, so far, but um uh great training. I mean, it seems like it's actually good for dogs if it's done correctly, right? As we said, it's not supposed to be a punishment, it's supposed to be a safe place for them to to go. Um, I mean, is that your experience? Like in that if we if you do it the right way, and obviously you need to train them a little bit as well, that it should be a positive experience for them, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

A hundred percent. So I think that um uh in our house, the way we use our crates, our dogs choose, you know, that that's that's somewhere that they can kind of come in and out of, and the doors are generally open. They have been crate trained though, in that I think this is particularly important for vet visits so that they are comfortable and not freaking out if they're enclosed in there. Um and obviously, as I mentioned before, you know, our boy with his behaviour issues, if we have visitors, he's enclosed in there, and he's actually far more relaxed and just sleeps and chills because he doesn't think he has to do anything. You know, he's not worried going, what job, what do I do, pacing around. Um, so I think that that crate training, regardless of whether you're thinking of using it more like an enclosure or just an open sort of den space for them, um, is really about creating a positive association with that space. Um, that's where I see the kind of crate training part coming in. Obviously, in early puppy days, people will use it for toileting. So, you know, then it helps kind of having them enclosed in there and they don't tend to go to the toilet in their den. Um, and then after that, I think it's really personal choices and circumstances for families. But if they have had that training to be comfortable in an enclosed space and associate it with something good and something restful and something peaceful, if you do have those, you know, and you obviously hope it's not going to happen, but if they do have to have an extended vet visit, they're not going to be extremely distressed being enclosed in a in a space with all those other things going on.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

The other thing where it's really useful as well, particularly now that flights um they're a dog-friendly flight is getting them used to being in a crate. So when they're traveling. So whether they're traveling in the back of a car or they're traveling on a plane, they're used to being in that enclosed pan and space because so many dogs, especially some of those sorts of oodles and small dogs who are going on these flights, if they're not used to it, they're probably freaking out going, what the hell is this scene that you've put me in? So having crate training them well in advance of those types of things can help make that whole experience a lot better as well, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:59

It's gonna have that positive association. And I I look, I don't know, maybe people have got a different experience of this, but I think once they're crate trained, it doesn't really seem to matter too much, whether they're going from a wire crate or into one of ours or into a canvas travel crate or whatever it is. I think it's more about that association of the enclosed space that that that's what you're building the positive with. Yeah. Um and I don't know, I think it's I think the benefits of of doing that, regardless of whether you choose to then use it in your home kind of longer term or whatnot, um, just opens up so much more um, I guess, ease in those situations like vets, like traveling, like th, you know, those things that you, you know, are probably going to happen during the dog's life. You've you've created an easier pathway for that. Um I think the other thing that's quite nice as well is when you think about um if you move house or you are going somewhere for an extended break, having the crate with the dog, you know, wherever it is that you're going or moving house is kind of like taking their, you know, their sort of familiarity with them. And especially if you've got an anxious dog, I think that just creates a really, really calming experience for them when all their surroundings and smells and everything's new, they're like, oh, okay, that's my that's my space, you know, and you've just done that in an easy, sort of portable way.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah. And I think obviously when you're introducing a crate to a dog that hasn't been in one before, there's a process in terms of how long you leave them in there for and and get how you introduce them and and all of that sort of stuff. But and I guess every single dog is different, right? But is there a you know a uh you know, a thing, a guide, I guess it's like you shouldn't leave your dog in a pen for this long, or does it really matter? I guess it depends on the dog in terms of how long they actually stay in a crate for. I mean, most of our guests when they're here overnight, they're in there all night. So they're in there for like seven, eight, seven, eight hours. Yeah. But um, but during the day.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Right. But I think that's a, you know, bedtime is kind of in your crate and that's appropriate when they're um, you know, when they're old enough to hold their bladder. I think, you know, what trainers have recommended for puppy training is it can be really nice to have the crate in those early days or early weeks actually in your bedroom so you can hear when they're getting a bit, you know, like probably need to be taken out to the toilet. And like with children, it's a no fuss, go to the toilet, come back, back in your crate. And you know, it's it's gonna take time and um people have to kind of stick with it. I do I definitely think it is. It does remind me of motherhood, right? Like, you know, you they they want to be with you, they want to be cuddling you, but if you persist and you're putting them back in their cot, then they learn and that's learned behaviour. And then not particularly recommended to keep the crate in your bedroom after that, you know, crate more in a shared living space because it can create separation anxiety if the dogs are with you all the time, and then when you go away, they can't, you know, they find that stressful. So if you can deliver do if you can work on that association of um when I'm in my crate, I feel calm, and then that's not necessarily where they've got eyesight to you. That's really helpful when you're then leaving the house and you know, and then you've got some um, you know, they're not sort of experiencing all of that anxiety. I I think as I sort of alluded to before, I'm probably not a huge advocate of dogs going in the crate all day, but I do know that there are certain working breeds and dogs where that is appropriate, but I just think the right training needs to be done. So it's gradual introduction and working up to that. If that and I'd probably recommend anyone who's thinking they need that for whatever reason works with a trainer to do that in the right way. But yes, I think overnight and then a few hours at a time during the day. In fact, the trainers definitely recommend that you do have crate time during the day, and that that is sort of in for again, like the children, you know, that's sort of an enforced nap time because that helps them with routines and regulation and um and all of those positive good things. So I think you you you touched on this before. That early introduction part is important, not just getting whether it's a puppy or an adult dog, just not just getting them, putting them in, closing the door and walking away. It's probably not gonna set them up for a good association with the crate. Lots of kind of open door time is what we recommend.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

I think that's just gonna stress them out. And like let's talk like talking about the puppy side of it. Um, it is about creating that safe space, and you can't just like bring a crate home, bring puppy home, chuck it in there, and just think this this little puppy's gonna be like, hey, yeah, this is fine, and I'm totally cool. Like it's like on a minute. Poor little thing, you've got to like introduce it to the crate, let it go in and out. People talk about having food, like the food in there and then nice blankets.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Make it put all their meals in there, treats in there, lick mats in there, enrichment. Like good things happen in my crate. That's kind of what you want the association to be, you know, and then that builds over time.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

So, because how does it help with toilet training? So it's it's obviously they're in there if they're in there overnight, typically they don't want it we where they're sleeping, right? So that's why they they sort of hold on and it helps them, you know, with their blood control and stuff like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

And that's why they also say not to have the crate too big. I think it's another human trait of ours that we think, oh, we would want something quite more room bigger, better. If we want room, yeah, that's right. Whereas for them, it's actually more about a cozy spot. But when it comes to the toilet training side, what you find is if the crate's too big, then they're like, okay, here's my cozy spot in this corner. Here's just my pee in the other corner. Yeah, that's exactly right. So you kind of want to make sure that it's yeah, it's sized for the time of life with the with the pup or the adult dog.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Yeah, okay. So let's talk about, I suppose, some of the steps. So, you know, I know we we can't, you know, talk in a huge amount of detail because we've only got a certain amount of time, but um, let's talk at like what's a quick summary of the steps that we can take. So if we've got a dog or a puppy who hasn't used a crate before, where should we start? What are the first sort of things and steps we can do to get them used to being in a crate?

SPEAKER_01 20:12

So again, not a trainer, but from my experience and and what I hear, I think that um I think that making it somewhere that they want to go is feels like a little bit of a no-brainer, right? So I think having a comfy mat inside, um, and having if it's a puppy and they're coming home, anything you can have in there that maybe smells like mum can be a good, you know, a little bit of blanket or fabric or whatnot can be a good start. Um, and introducing definitely with doors open. So it's a, you know, using whether it's a, you know, whatever kind of crate it is, seeing if you can get treats into the crate that in a way that they're going to go in, and then a yes or whatever your, you know, your reward word is when they go in. If they sit down, you know, mother load of treats, it's like, okay, these are all the I'm getting rewarded for coming in this place. This is amazing, you know. I like being here and I'm getting rewarded. Um, and that is a gradual, you know, kind of process. When they're going in and sitting down, then close the door just for a short period of time. Again, treats if there's no barking or whining. They always recommend don't let them out when they're whining, wait till they're quiet so and calm.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Because then they'll learn that when they soak, they get let out.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

That's exactly right. So resist the urge, even though it's very tempting. So kind of just wait till they're quiet and then let them out.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Um, but that's short periods, like short, you know, kind of we're talking a few minutes at a time and then you you gradually and then opening the door, letting them come in and out, kind of repeating that process slightly longer periods of time. And then you're gonna move to closing the door, walking away, but coming back quite soon after. So they're like, okay, she does come back or he does come back, you know. Um, and so then that is just your gradual, you know, your gradual process. And I'm talking you can do that over a couple of days. It's not if you you know, if you're kind of dedicated to to doing it and getting it done, it's not like it has to take weeks, but it is just not about, yeah, as we said before, putting them in, closing the door, and walking away.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

They've got to get used to it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

They've got to get used to it. And I don't think it's a completely dissimilar process for a puppy or an adult dog, to be honest. I think you know, an adult dog probably has more is more likely to have an aversion to it if they've never had that kind of experience of being closed in before. A puppy is probably a little bit newer, and a lot of breeders now are using crates in the in their um early puppy days anyway. But I think an adult dog who's never been crated, which was our experience with both our dogs, a little bit more choice and reward and taking a bit of time to close them in is probably.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

But I think some dogs are just that nature where they want more quiet time than others, or they're just like they are that different. Like I said with Tia, she just took herself into this crate one day and we were like, mm-hmm, okay. So we were like, well, that's if she wants to do that, then then that's fine. But the other two dogs never did. But it's um and we get some here as well that aren't crated, like they're not crated at home. And then sometimes you'll go, where are they? And they'll be curled up in the back of one of the crates, and you go, okay, they just send it some down. So we just leave it open. They can come and go as they as they want to. So if they feel like they need to get away and have a little nap away from everyone else, then they can go and they can do that. So again, I think it is because we don't use it as a negative thing. It's uh, hey, it's there if you need to have that little extra space and quiet time, then it's a good thing for them.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

That's exactly right. And I know, you know, some of the trainers have said to us, and I I'm I'm terrible at this, by the way, Tanya, like what I'm about to say is is not something I I feel like I should do it and I would like to do it, but I'm just not quite disciplined enough. But that creating the routines, you know, I think your most um confident dogs know their routine and you know what kind of happens. And so if you if it works for the family to create the dogs at night, and yes, but you know, potentially closed crate at night, and then some crate time during the day, and that that is just consistently what happens. You know, your dog is getting that rest, they're getting their their retreat, they know this is the way it works. Um, and from what I understand, is it you know can have a really good positive psychological effect for dog's confidence and you know ability to cope with separation anxiety and things like that. So, as I said, I'm not great at it. Our dogs are more crate by crate by choice. Um but yeah, um, you know, it can be a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

But every dog's different, as you said. Like some just they want that space and they love having their little time um, you know, in there, and and others are just like, nah, too much going on. I just want to go and you know play books. As that rest part is so important for for their day and their routine. I think people forget that. And you know, we do we make sure with our daycare guests that we have regular rests during the day. And usually when it's put, I put on the lullabies and they all start to go one drops off and then they've they drop like flies.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

It's like nap time. Oh, that's beautiful. And they've probably doing those signals, right? That say this is it, this it's now time to relax. Like, especially so we've got um another dog now who's half Aussie Shepherd, half border collie. So she's like two working breeds in one, and we certainly don't live a um, you know, a farm life. And so she's like obsessed, obsessed. I I think actually addicted to her ball. Um and if it's you know, unless it is taken out of sight, and you know, she's like at times it will take a bit of crate time. She can't wind down, she can't, you know, she's just wired to go, come on, let's go play. Um, so I think for dogs like that, it's super beneficial having that, yeah, the routine forced downtime, yeah. Exactly, exactly right. Because they just don't know to do it, you know. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Because yeah, some are some dogs aren't so good at self-regulating as others.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

But like people really humans, yeah, that's right. I think we might be a bit the same. They do say, don't they, that your dogs, you know, sort of reflect you in some way. So you know something in that. I say that my dogs have reflected different stages of my life. So my first dog was a cavoodle, and um, you know, she was it was I I won't go into what was going on for me at the time, but you know, she was she was pretty easygoing and lovely, and then COVID hit and I got my Sharpe, and we've talked about him. He was not, he was not easy going, and he's like, you know, he's a bit tough, and now I've got my you know, I've got my crazy girl.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

So anyway, I don't know what that says about me, but um, is there a best place in the house to put a crate? Because obviously, you know, and that and maybe that changes over their life as well. So where we put it when they're puppies, where they're you know, as they're getting older, do we move it? Like, is there a best spot to put it or like or how do we figure it, figure that part out?

SPEAKER_01 26:55

So I think again, it depends on puppy or adult dog and potentially depends on what they're used to, if it's an adult dog, what they've been used to before you're introducing a crate. I think um for puppy days, best recommendation is if you can to have it in the room in the same room you're sleeping in, because if you're if you're doing enclosed crate training at night, um just so that you can take them out to go to the toilet, because that's probably gonna take a little while and you don't, yeah, you don't want to.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Because their little bladders can't hold on for too long.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

That's right. That's right, it's not gonna, it's not gonna work, you know. So that's probably important. But after that, you know, I think we were touching on this before. After that, having in somewhere like you know, a living room or a spare room or somewhere where it's um there's a bit of separation from you just to help them build that independence, um, is what's generally recommended. And do you know what I love about that is when they are having their daytime in the crate, it's it's enabled a way for them to still stay connected with the family but rest.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

So you know, I'm I can still see around and you're there, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Yeah, that's right. So if I'm cooking in the kitchen and you know, we've got an open plan sort of kitchen living area, and the dogs can get a bit, you know, incessant and kind of I want to come in and see what's going on, and there's food and it's all exciting. Using the crates for um for them at that time I find really useful, but I'm not putting them away, they're not being sent, you know, they can still see, they've got the smells, they've got the noises, but they're chill, you know, they just lie down and it's a nice way for no because I think that's the way we think about our crates quite a lot, is that they're enabling connection because instead of a wire crate that you go, oh, I'm gonna go and put that in the laundry because it's ugly. Yeah, we've kind of that was what we really wanted at a design aesthetic that still kept connection for the dogs with your family by something that just yeah, it feels like it fits a bit better in your home. So I think you know, if it works for families to have them in their bedroom, I think that's totally fine as well. But it probably is just a bit more of that, you know, potentially not helping them with building their independence.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Yeah, yeah. And that that makes total sense as well. Um, so what are some good ways to make a crate feel safe and well and calming? And we've probably touched on a couple already, but like when we we're introducing them and and so forth, how can we do it in a in a really positive way for them? So it does feel like that safe spot for them.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

I think probably in addition to the things we've already said around the food and treats is probably being in the same space, kind of touching on that. So, you know, not meaning I'm in my crate, I'm immediately left on my own. You know, so having crate time there, and then you, you know, sitting around in the same living room and talking to each other or watching telly in that same, you know, in that same space, I think that can really help with building positive associations with the crate too. Because I think we do things, and I know I have as a dog parent many times, we accidentally train them, as in we you know, create an association with something unintentionally. And so if it becomes I go in my crate and then everybody leaves me every time, yeah, that's not necessarily building a positive association. So I think that's important and positioning as well. So, you know, making sure that the crate's not somewhere where it's getting you know, western sun hitting it hard and you know, it becomes really hot and uncomfortable, so somewhere that you know, you know, I don't I don't know common sense, really.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

I mean, think about it, it really should just be common sense, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I I was gonna say, I mean, in terms of sort of covering it, I think that's very dog dependent. You know, we were talking before about some dogs finding it hard to wind down. I I have heard that there are some dogs, if they've got too much visibility in the crate, they they still can't settle, you know, and so that's probably a dog by dog situation. We we haven't experienced that personally, but I know that can be a thing. So I think that's just something for people to be aware of.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

We have some dogs here that they say no, they go in the crate and we've got the cover that goes over and that keeps them quiet and calm. So we're like, okay, if that's what they need, that's what they'll get.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

That's it, that's it. So I think it's some of it's probably um specific to the family situation and the dog. One thing I would say um is with kids, is that um making sure kids know if the dog's in their crate, that's their that's their time, right? That's their their space and and and their choosing to go in there, or we're putting them in there so they can have their rest.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

I mean, that's for the safety of the children as well, because you never know how dogs may react with some guarding if they if they're kind of coming into that space, but also just to genuinely give the dogs that time to recover and you know, and and rest. Um, so I think all of those kind of little things help to just create that positive association.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Yeah, good um, good tips there. Um, now if anyone hasn't seen your crates, they need to get onto the pause room and have a look because they are very different. Um, and again, I think for me it's that mental image. I hate the sort of wire cage sort of look and stuff as well. So why um why are your crates, I guess, better or they're different, but like why would you suggest that people get one of the crates that you guys have? Um, and let's, I guess, because this is a podcast and we and we don't have visuals, but and it they are made out of beautiful timber and they've got you know beautiful doors made out of like perspecs and stuff that just makes it really luxe and pretty. Like, why are they different to other things that are on the market?

SPEAKER_01 32:26

So I think the most obvious kind of visual um answer to that is that they look like furniture, like you, you know, you were referencing before. So that's that was very much the design intent that they could fit in as a table. So you could have that dual function, um, whether it's a bedside table or a you know side table beside your couch, or for some of the XL bigger dogs, at least it can be like a um, you know, somewhere you can still put stuff and you because you think about those XL wire crates, it takes up a huge amount of space. And you can't anything. That's right, they're not just ugly, like they're really, they really do take up a lot of space. And so that was very much the whole sort of, I guess, intent at the beginning was to say it's a, you know, it it's its um form and function are equally important for you know for the design of the crate. Um, and then I guess we've just we've put a lot of thought and our own experience and other dog parent experience. We've learned a lot along the way. There's been many tweaks to the design of our signature teddy crate, but things like the obvious one at the beginning was was chewing. Not a problem you have with a with a wire crate so much, but yeah, you know, we've created kind of well-ventilated but acrylic solutions that stop, you know, potential chewing on the sides. We focused a lot on visibility, so I suppose the opposite of what we were saying before, where some dogs need, you know, it feels very covered and enclosed. Ours is a lot, we're we're Queenslanders, so ours is a lot about ventilation and visibility.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

So make sure they can always be covered as well if a dog's needs and being able to put a cover over it if we if we need to do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

And some people do that at night, you know. Um, we'll we'll we'll we'll do that then. Um, so yeah, ventilation and visibility has been a really, really big part of the the design aesthetic. And then we've kind of I guess over time, understanding what people are looking for for their for the comfort of their dogs and what works, we've sort of then built out a system. So there are optional bits like wheels. People want to move it from the bedroom to the lounge room easily without having to pick it up because it isn't like handy because you can just wheel it around because some of those things are heavy, especially if it's big.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Trying to move them around.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

It's like 45 kilos because it's solid birch plywood, right? So they're very heavy. The small ones are okay, they're maybe so a cavoodles one would be maybe 22 kilos, but still it's a lot for you know a single person to be picking up. So wheels make that a lot easier, yeah. Um, and then yeah, the mat, we do an orthopedic mat with two covers um that are removable, washable, waterproof liner, all those things you learn along the way that you're like, oh, I wish it had, you know, when you buy something and so then you when you're creating it yourself, you can solve all your, you know, you can solve all your own problems. Um, and then we partner with a few different companies to build out kind of some of the things that we think work really well with a crate. So things like enrichment toys is a beautiful brand in um they're in Singapore actually, called Linoj, and they make very aesthetically um aligned uh enrichment lick mats and pup cups. And so they they look nice in our crates, they're really well considered from a um a design perspective. So we have those yeah, um partnerships that then we kind of think those products align quite nicely with a wheat, you know, a wee spray or whatever. So it's I think to answer your question is we've considered the whole crate experience.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Yeah, so it's not just one product, but what's going to complement the actual crate of it?

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Which is not typical because typically you're buying a crate over here and you might get a mat for it, and you might get a cover from somewhere else, and it's all like it's all bits and bobs from the, you know, like will it fit?

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Will it work? Will it look good? Um, all yeah, all of those things. So that's probably the difference is we think about it like an experience.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Yeah, yeah, which I love. I think that's really cute. Um, so we might finish with a bit of a fun question.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

All right.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

So if oodles could design their dream crate setup, what do you think would definitely be inside it?

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Oh, that is a great question. Chicken. Chicken treats, yeah. Chicken treats would definitely be inside the crate, like every time they come in, right? Like just almost like an endless and endless supply. Um visibility to their uh they want to be able to want to see their owners. So yeah, that's that would definitely be important to them. So my girl was a real, this might be a bit gross, but she was a real duna licker.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Oh yes. Well, yeah, so that can be an anxiety thing when they're licking stuff, it helps soothe them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Yeah. So definitely something to to lick, whether it was a lick mat or it's you know, like just something in there, that kind of something for that sort of self-soothing.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Um, and yeah, look, if it was my girl, the crate would would have given her easy access to kind of come to come in and out. I think that would have been pretty important to, you know, to her. Um and super comfy, cozy, definitely. Comfy mattress, coat. Like um, she really likes that kind of you know, chenely type um, like something that feels really yes, soft, cozy.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Fuck us. We want something comfortable and cozy on our beds too. When you curled up, you just want to look at it.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

I mean, the only part of this I don't want is the chicken and the lick mat. I mean, all the rest of it. Actually, chicken in bed could be all right, I suppose. Um, yeah, so yeah, basically, I think that's actually the best way to summarize it is I think a cavoodle would want in their crate and their crate experience to be everything we would want in a beautiful like luxe hotel. That would be that would be the ideal experience.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Yeah, well, we are servants pretty much to them, aren't we?

SPEAKER_01 38:25

So I do think a lot of cavoodles have got a little bit of the you know, a little bit of the princess vibes. Oh, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

Oh, totally, I totally relate to that one. Um, thank you so much, Eliza, for your time. Um, I think crate training is such a big topic, and it's one that's relevant to like everybody because it's either are we crate training them, are we not crate training then? If we are, how do we do it? Like, where do we start? What do we buy? You know, it's all that sort of stuff. Because I think, you know, it can be overwhelming when you when you know when you're starting out, if you're not used to having a dog or you're just getting a puppy and you're trying to, you know, figure it all out. And that's Lily who just has to be involved in uh in the podcast, of course.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

We had a few thoughts on on what makes a good train.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Yes, she's the same as what I think. You're a chicken. I think she wants a chicken. Oh, that's um she's she's a sassy little girl. We love Lily. Um, but yes, so thank you very much for being a part of the uh podcast. Um I know that anyone listening will get lots of great tips um and tricks from from it. So um we'll put all the links to to you guys in the show notes so people can find you and and take a look. Um but but thank you for your time. I know that you're busy and and um appreciate you sharing your insights.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Thank you so much, having me, Tanya. It's been fun. Great, thanks. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Would you like to know more about the services we provide here at 3 Sport Dogs? Then visit our website tree is in the number 3 sportdogs.com.au. Also send me an email if you've got any questions or to request specific topics in future episodes. If you'd like to become a collaborative partner or just to tell me how much you love the podcast, I would love to hear from you.