How to deal with Anticipatory Grief

How to Cope with Anticipatory Grief: Supporting Yourself Before Saying Goodbye to Your Dog

Watching your dog grow older or face a serious illness can be one of the hardest experiences any pet owner will ever go through. Long before we have to say goodbye, many of us begin grieving the loss we know is coming and often don't realise there's a name for it.

In this heartfelt episode of the Pawsitively Spoilt Podcast, Tanya shares her own journey with her beloved dog, Latte, alongside animal communicator Donna Hamer, as they explore the emotional reality of anticipatory grief. Together, they discuss why it's so common, why feelings of guilt and anxiety are completely normal, and how to navigate this difficult stage while still cherishing the precious time you have left with your dog.

If you're caring for a senior dog or a pet with a terminal illness, this conversation offers practical advice, reassurance, and compassionate support to help you focus on making meaningful memories instead of living in fear of what's ahead. 

In this episode, we cover:

•  What anticipatory grief is and why so many dog owners experience it 
•  The emotional signs to look out for before your dog has passed 
•  Why caring for a senior or unwell dog can feel emotionally overwhelming 
•  How to cope with guilt, anxiety and the fear of "the day" coming 
•  Practical ways to prepare emotionally without losing joy in the present 
•  Creating meaningful memories with your dog during their final chapter 
•  Advice and comfort for anyone currently walking this journey with their beloved companion 

About Donna

Donna Hamer, known as Donna DoLittle Animal Communicator, is an Animal Communicator, Pet Psychic, Author, and Pet Grief Coach. She helps pet guardians better understand their animals by intuitively connecting with pets, both living and in spirit, and sharing their thoughts, feelings, and messages.

Donna is the bestselling author of Pet Loss & Grief – From Loss to Love: A Healing Journey Through Pet Grief and is passionate about supporting people through the challenges of pet loss, grief, and end-of-life care. Her upcoming book and journal, Anticipatory Grief: Navigating End of Life with Your Pet, offers practical and compassionate support for those facing the difficult journey of saying goodbye to a beloved companion.

Through her work, Donna helps people find comfort, connection, healing, and hope during every stage of their journey with their pets. For more information, visit

WEBSITE:  https://www.donnadolittle.com.au

BOOKING LINK:  https://bookme.name/donnadolittle/
IG:  https://www.instagram.com/animalcommunicationwithdonna/
FB:  https://www.facebook.com/donnadolittle

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Today's topic is one that I lived with for a period of time, and anyone with senior dogs will be able to relate to this. And it's around dealing with anticipatory grief. It is real, and today we're going to be talking to Donna Hamer about how to manage that, what to look for, and how we can flip the narrative and turn it into a more positive experience for all. Who's positively spoiled? If you have a spoiled Oodle just like me and many others, then you're listening to the right podcast. Positively spoiled is a podcast focusing on helping you raise a happy and healthy oodle. And we know just how fussy, cute, loving, and sometimes challenging they can be. But hey, us two-legged can't resist a cute, four-legged face. I'm Tanya, chief porson, pet concierge, and temporary porn to many small dogs that are part of the extended oodle family here as three sports dogs. As a lifelong small dog owner and temporary porrent to many other oodles and many small dogs, I have seen it all. And this podcast is here to help you raise the happiest and healthiest oodle that you can. And hey, we don't discriminate. So if you have any other breed of dog, you'll find the podcast relevant and helpful too. So pause up and let's get into today's episode. Hey everyone, it's Tanya Williams here, Chief Pawson at Three Sport Dogs and host of the Positively Sport Podcast. Now, today we've got could be a little bit of an emotional episode, but it's a really important one. It's a discussion that, you know, we we all need to have at some point in our dog's life. Um I'm today I'm talking to Donna Hamer from Donna Doolittle. Now I have had several discussions with Donna. Um, she's an animal communicator. Um, and I've had those discussions when both Tia and Latte um passed away just to help me, I guess, understand, get some closure, come to terms with everything and get some answers, I suppose, as well. And um, yeah, it's a I hopefully I won't cry. I feel like I can feel the tears coming already. Um, but Donna, thank you for being part of the show. Obviously, we've spoken in a previous series um about you know dealing with death and so forth. This one we're talking more about anticipatory grief. I know I definitely went through it. Um, it's a big topic, but before we get into that, can you just um let people know who you are and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Thank you, Tanya. Well, welcome here today. It's very exciting. Tanya might cry, I won't. I'm gonna do all the laughing today because for me, uh, I do talk a lot about pet loss and grief. Uh, I don't find it a sad subject. Yes, it is sad, but I really come from the basis. I want to help raise your vibration and share all the beautiful things about your pets. So, as an animal communicator, when I get onto a call with people and we're talking to their pets in spirit, they seem to bring all silly things through to me, right? It makes me laugh and I feel bad because I'm smiling and laughing on this side and they're crying on that side. But you know, really our pets live on whether it's you know, they're not here in the physical, they're in the spiritual, and they really do want you to know that they're always around and they're always supporting you. So um maybe I didn't share what I was supposed to, but anyway, thanks for having me here.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

It's a good explains, it explains a bit about what you do. As you know, we we recently lost our beautiful girl Latte, um, who was 16 and a half, and you know, that's obviously a really hard thing to go to go through, and it still is. Um, but I think I started to suffer from that anticiporated grief after Tia passed because obviously we lost her when we're overseas, so there was a whole lot of guilt and issues um around that. Um, and I think from then that's when I really started to worry about every single thing. Like it was like, you know, every night I would say to her, I love you, baby girl. Mummy loves you all the way around the world and back again. And that was the last thing I would say to her because I'd be worried if, you know, something's gonna happen to her overnight because Tia passed in her sleep. I would get up first thing in the morning and I'd be checking on her and she's okay, yeah, she's breathing, she's good. Like, and I live with that, I would say, for probably at least 18 months. And and I know we've had a discussion about this, um, Donna as well. And it is really hard, and I think, and we'll talk about mindset and reframing and all the rest of it as well, but it's can we let's start with I guess explaining to people what anticipatory grief is, um, and and I guess why they might might have that, particularly around senior dogs.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

So, first of all, um I wrote my book a year ago, and and when I started my first book, Pet Loss and Grief, I actually wanted to write about stories about pets in spirit. And what happened was I realized that I was suffering from a whole ray of grief, right? And I had had at that point five pets pass in six years, and I just thought grief was grief, right? Didn't realize that there are so many different aspects of it. But anticipatory grief is really, and I think that's a really difficult word sometimes to say if you say anticipatory.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

It is a hard word to say, it is. I know I always get it wrong.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

If I get caught on it, please forgive me. But basically, it's what you're experiencing before your pets pass. Now, this could be uh when you get a diagnosis or when you notice that they're aging, or you just start to think they may not be around all that much longer, which was a lot of what you went through, Tanya. For me, I had a beautiful golden retriever called um Ajax. I've got to get his name right because I've got a new one called Archer, and I keep calling them different names. Um, I looked at my beautiful boy one day and I said to him, You need to survive till you're at least 16 because my other golden retriever was now 16 at the time, and I said, You can do it. And of course, what happened is is I found out that he had lymphomic cancer, and all of those feelings started, right? You know, when is what's gonna happen, what's this, what's that? And I'm starting the grieving before the time actually had happened. So, you know, same thing with you, you worried about what's gonna happen overnight. So we we kind of get into this state of stressing and worrying about them before we're even at that time.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yeah, and that's exactly where I was. And my husband would say, You've got to stop. And I'm like, but I can't because like I'm just so I was so worked up, and I think I still had that obviously grief from tear and guilt and all that stuff. And I'm like, I just need to, you know, she needs to be here longer. And like it was just I did, I was getting myself worked up about it. And I know when we had a conversation, you said, Yeah, you've got to stop, you've got to think about, you know, every day and make her, you know, um, you know, feel that happiness and the joy and and you know, appreciate every day. And that's what I did. I really was grateful for every single day we had because I didn't expect that we would have her that long. But it is a really weird feeling because it does feel like at times that you are are are actually grieving, even though they're still physically there, which in itself feels really odd because you're like, why do I feel so sad when she's still here? Like, um, so I know it was it was one of those things, and I and I wasn't sure what was going on until I think we had that conversation and said, This is what you're feeling, it's anticipatory grief. So, what are some of the signs that someone might be struggling with that? Um, you know, maybe they've got a senior dog or it's been diagnosed with something and they are feeling really sad or they're feeling that grief. What are the things that might help them understand that, okay, this is what I'm what I actually have, and you know, and then we can talk about how to deal with it.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

I think the thing is um identifying that that's what you're going through is anticipatory grief, and it's the constant worrying about your pet or maybe um feeling anxious about what might happen when I go and visit the vet, what might they say? Uh, another one is waking up at two o'clock in the morning stressing and worrying about them, like, uh, can I hear them breathing? Are they doing this? Are they doing that? Or just lying there thinking, thinking, thinking. I'm a big thinker, right? And two o'clock in the morning, not a good time. Um, I even know friends, um, I'm gonna use a lady who recently just lost her little dog, in fact, this week, and I've been talking to her over the last six months about her dog. He was 14, right? But she would break down and start crying just talking about him because she knew that this was coming to a point. But I kept saying to her, live in the now, enjoy the now, look at all the beautiful times you have together. And I and I think the last one too is we're constantly living in a state of what if? What if I do this? What if I do that? What if I don't do that? What what and and it becomes so big. Um, and you know, like it's easy for me to say, step out of it, but we can't always step out of it because that's the people we are, that's the person we are, and that's why we love our pets so much.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

And it is right, it is that balance of like you know in your head, you go, and this is like head and heart, right? It's like, I know, I know I should be doing this and I shouldn't be worrying, and I know, but then your heart is is telling you something else because it it is that balance of between the two, it's like they have a conversation, your head's going, you're being stupid, like stop it, yeah, yeah, you want to be okay, but then I'm like, I'm sad. And like it's it it is really hard to pull yourself out of, I guess. But I think um, again, if you change the way you think about it, you know, like reframing it as you mentioned before, like if we change our mindset and go, you know what? Instead of being sad and thinking about the end, let me be grateful for every day that I've got, let me do all the little small things that we can do together and have these happy, fun memories and and so forth. And that's what I tried to do. It was like, oh, these little moments where, you know, she'd have all the energy and she'd be like, oh my god, she's bouncing around this, you know. So you I would love those moments and I would cherish those moments and and I tried to focus more on that than you know the other stuff, which it wasn't always easy. But um, you know, when people are, I guess, caring for a senior dog as well, and and you know, you know this as well, it it is emotionally exhausting sometimes. And um, you know, it can be really hard, you know. But why is that? You know, sometimes we just think, oh my god, like I'm so like tired. I and I there's been times where I went, I don't know how much more of this I can take. Um like I guess it's we we it's because we love them so much and that's a human a human thing, right? But like why can it feel so emotionally exhausting for us?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Like, well, first of all, once again for myself, I'd never ever heard of the term carer's fatigue or carer's burnout. And um maybe I lived in a bubble, I don't know, but when you when you have sick pets or senior pets, because I had senior pets, right? I adopted three seniors, and they were two of them were nine and a half and one was 16, they're already at that point of what people would call end of life or you know, where it where they're coming from. So, you know, and I didn't really think too much about it, but the the thing is you get into this fatigue because number one, you're trying to be the caregiver to them, which means you know, you're making decisions, you're giving medications. Am I giving the right medication? Do I need to go here? Do I need to go there? Um, we're running around on all those things, and at the same time, you're still trying to be that kind, caring, loving pet parent that you are, and you're torn between all these things. You know, you're watching your very um your baby in a lot of cases, your soul animal, whatever you want to call them, changing before your eyes, and there's not a lot that you can do. Um, I've definitely come in my awareness about this two o'clock in the morning stuff because it still now, even though I don't have a senior pet anymore, I still wake up at two o'clock in the morning and think, oh, does Snowy need a little blanket on him? Is he cold? We got into winning out. We can't help ourselves, right? But Keras fatigue is very, very prevalent when it comes to looking. Um, and I think it goes hand in hand actually with anticipatory grief because the grief is what we're going through, but the actual being in and doing the moments. And that became really um evident to me as I was helping Fergie. And I did say to you about the, you know, with all due respects, we can get angry. I'm not a nice person when I'm tired, and I'm not a nice person at five o'clock in the morning, and I'm not a nice person when it's freezing ass cold at like five degrees, and I've got to get up because I can hear my pets struggling, and I go, I don't want to do it. Yes, I need to do it because I love them, right? And then you go downstairs because for me, my smaller ones were always upstairs beside my bed so I could check in on them at night. Whereas the the big dogs, I couldn't drag 30 kilos upstairs, and um, you know, when when their legs are all wobbly, you can't get them up those stairs and you don't want to force them. So when you could hear them, I would be back downstairs, and I spent many nights lying downstairs for hours because I couldn't calm them. Fergie had sundowners, and like, you know, kind of was checked out, and then you'd walk away, and then you know, he'd have incontinence issues, and sometimes I was getting a little bit annoyed with not so much him, but how I was feeling, and that's where I talked to you about that reframing of I had to do a kind of donner self-check here and go, listen, girlfriend, you love these animals, and their time with you is very, very limited. Instead of being angry about being woken up at three o'clock in the morning when it's cold and coming down and stepping in something you didn't want to step in, remember what they do for you. And I always reframed it of how grateful I was to have them in my life. And even when we did day spas, and that's what I started to call it because for the um Fergie, he was 30 kilos, right? And um and one thing I will say, I don't know if you're gonna ask me this question, but I need to say is when your pets are coming to this stage, go and do anything you need to do to make sure life is easy for you and them. And what do I mean by that is go and buy those cheapest chips, Kmart um yoga mats. They were $4 cost of inflation, they're probably six dollars now. But like you can put them down so your little dog can walk on them and not slip, right? I had big dogs, they would walk on them, but if they needed to, if they had an accident before you got them outside, you just take it out and you hose it, you dry it and you put it back down. Does it fit with everybody's decor? Hell no. But it makes life so much easier. Um, you know, invest in bits and pieces. And one of my most uh the best investment I ever made was a help em up harness, these harnesses, and you can just hold their little back end, and all my dogs would still go walking and I could navigate them around. So, you know, I really looked for ways to try and not only help them, but uh it was helping me and it was saving me from being stressed out about what was going on. And you know, if your dog's struggling and all of a sudden that's pretty stressful, right? But if you can give them a harness where you can help them, it takes all that stress out of them and you. So um, yeah, look, you know, the uh the reframing, the doing bits and pieces, that was always something that um I've now realized after going, um, you know, being with so many senior pets, things that make a huge difference.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

And it is, and I know I've you know, I know we had a discussion about this as well. I got angry at Neo one day because after Latte passed, he was having, you know, I was he was grieving as well and he wasn't eating his food. And one one night I lost my stem. You've got to eat your food. It's like what are you making mummy ups? And he looked at me with these eyes, and then I felt so bad. I'm like, I'm so sorry for yelling at you, sweetheart. Like, and you know, obviously that was part of the grief and the and the process and stuff, but because I was like, I don't need you to be sick, I've just been through all this, like I need you to be doing all the right things and and helping me out. And I've there, yeah, there was a huge amount of guilt because I was like, you poor little thing, you just you know, you you're here and you and you and he wasn't. Um well, because he had a UTI, which we found out, but it was like you do, you feel bad, like if you yell at them or you get frustrated and go, oh my god, I've got to get up again or whatever. But I think that's exactly it. If you think about it in the in that way of going, I'm lucky that I still have them and I can still do this for them because this is part of caring for them. Um, and it is caring for a senior pet can be very trying. It can it there they do need more work, they do need more help. Um, and I think people need to understand that as well, that you just have to have that, you know, that patience with them. Um and one of the one of the questions I guess I I want to, I guess, talk about is more of this grief stuff as well. A lot of people feel guilty for grieving too early. Is that a normal thing? And I guess everyone's different. So normal is probably not the right, white, right way of phrasing it, but is that common um to go, oh I feel bad for feeling like this?

SPEAKER_00 17:25

I think it is. And um, for instance, like I that's what I said to Ajax, you can't you can't pass yet, you've got to live another three more years. And I kept talking this conversation, you know. I I was always talking and joking with him, and I think I said this to you too about the reframing of not worrying about them being in the state because I'm very big into don't bring this into awareness, right? Don't wipe them out before you can. So I like to just to change that back, and it's taken me time to go, we're gonna live in the present as much as we can. Let's be in the now. So, you know, yes, people do get upset about it, but it's really interesting. It's not so much about your going through the anticipatory grief, but if you go and share it with somebody else, you know what they say? It's just a dog. Why are you worried? What is this? And that actually compounds. So know that you're normal if you're feeling like this, um, know that what you're going through is very, very normal and take some steps to just look at yourself and go, how can I reframe this? What can I do? What can we do together? And we will talk about some of these things just to bring us back to that state of really enjoying what we've got. Because even if you get a diagnosis today about your pet, that's not to say if they say to you, hey, listen, they're only going to be around for another day, that's not always necessarily true, right? I've got loads of people who have had diagnosis and they've been told it's time, and they say, listen, we need to go away and spend some more time, and they've had another two or three more years, right? So um, it's not saying that's gonna happen for everybody, but just because the vets give you this, there's no crystal ball. I don't have a crystal ball, they don't have a crystal ball, it's just what is. And I've got to tell you, pets are way more stoic than us, right? They hide things. Um, pain is a really big thing we should try and talk about, but they hide things, they don't want you knowing that they're at the certain stage. So often the vets might say they're sick and this is what they think, but the pets are actually as long as they want to stay here and they're engaging and they're doing all those things, they're gonna fight to be with you because they don't want to leave you. They love you as much as you love them.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Yeah. And look, I know we we went through that with um one of our previous dogs, Harley. He had um some heart issues, and the specialists had said, Oh, look, you know, I give him like three months because of the conditions he had. We had three years with him. Like, you know, it was on all these tablets and all, you know, all the rest of it to help to help him. But it was it, you know, we could have just literally given up and went, oh my god, that's it. Like, it's all over. But we were like, no, let's like see, and to have that amount of time, he and every time we take him to the specialist, he would just be like, This dog just blows me away. I can't believe that he is wagware he is, like it's just crazy. But I and I think that's that's true. And I think the thing is as well, is we know our dogs better than anybody else. And even I've had vets say to me, you know, their natural, like their day-to-day, their behaviors, what's normal, what's not normal. We only see them how they are here. So if you're telling us that something's not normal or that doesn't seem like it's just, you know, we've got to listen to that. And I think listening to your gut and knowing, you know, okay, like, you know, we went through this recently with Neo. Um, and and it turns out that after, you know, it wasn't just grief, there was other things. And he we got blood stunned and he had kidney, he's got kidney disease. But because in my gut, I knew there was something more. I'm like, there's something more that's happening that we need to find out what it is. Um, and it was the same thing when when when Tay Tay died, you know, like they'd said to me she was really sick, attempts were high, all this sort of stuff. But I looked at her and she just gave me this look like, Mom, I've had enough. Like, and I knew in my gut it was the right time. So I think we need to look at gut instinct and stuff as well, with a lot of this stuff as well, because I I said to Shane, I know you know, I we can we can leave it a day, a week, and yeah, whatever, but she's ready. You know, we're not ready, we'll never be ready. Um, but she was ready, and I had to listen to to my gut instinct on that sort of stuff. And I think sometimes we get caught up. My point being is sometimes we get caught up on everything the vet's telling us, and of course we need to listen to specialists, but sometimes like, you know what, but I know my dog, and I know that doesn't feel right or seem right as well. So I think we need to listen to that stuff as well. Um let's talk about some of the coping mechanisms. Um Because, you know, it's it's all well and good to say we shouldn't be doing this, and we but like, what are some of the healthy ways that people can cope if they are feeling like this? So they know that their dog's old or sick, they're trying to balance it, they're trying to also prepare themselves mentally and emotionally for it. What are some practical things we can do?

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Okay, so if I was told tomorrow that um, you know, my dog is at this point or I'm feeling they're at this point, first of all, I would get myself a notebook. I was gonna go and reach one, and I would start documenting things down, right? Document down questions, document down. Um, I can do a little plug. I've done a journal that you can document all this stuff, but um, by writing it down somewhere, you don't have to think about what was it like a week ago, a month ago, a day ago, that kind of thing, right? Document that down. And my other really important thing is call up and ask, what does it cost to euthanase? Can I do it at home? Can I do it at the surgery? Um, aftercare, all those questions. Those questions that you don't want to ask, ask now, put it in the back of that little journal and put it away. So you never have to think about that again, right? You've if the day comes, you flip it open and go, oh yes, this is what they told me. I can go back to it. But for me personally, it removes that stress and trauma in your mind to think about things, right? Um, I would journal as often as you feel like. Now, some people will say, Oh my god, don't I can't journal. This is about having fun. Your journaling could be what crazy things they did today, right? What zoomies, like you know, Bergie could hardly walk and all of a sudden he got up this day and he took off down the road, and I'm there. I'd left him in the garden getting some beautiful sunshine, and it was out the front of our house because we have real grass there, fake out the back. So I wanted him on the real grass. He hadn't walked in days, right? I come back out and he's gone. I'm having a heart attack, and there he is right down the road. So, you know, that's something that really my mind. I wrote down that he got up today and he went walking around, right? Did he feel good? Who knows what created it? But it was just such a beautiful moment, right? Um, also create around your support network, somebody that you can just call up and go, I feel like shit today. Can I have a conversation? Get it out, get a little boost, come back and be in that moment that your pets are enjoying that time with you. I always try and focus on today rather than what ifs and what might be down the track. So, you know, just a little bit of self-care for you. And it is okay, by the way, to go out and have coffee and have time out because people come to this point, they kind of start to shut themselves down. I won't go out because something might happen to the dog. I won't do this and I won't do that. I can assure you. I've been I've been there, yeah. Your pets will never want you to change all these things. If you're really stressed out about leaving them, get yourself like a youthie camera or something and pop it up in the room they're in. And you can see them, right? Do a little check-in. I use my camera all the time to check in on my pets, not because I'm worried about them, but more right now, Snowy has um separation anxiety. So I just check in to make sure he's not barking because I don't want the neighbors upset. But when the old dogs were here, it was just to be check-in to see what they're doing. Nine times out of ten, they'd be sound asleep. And I'm thinking, why was I worried? Right? So do things for you because when you're feeling good and you're okay, um, and this is coming back to your carers' fatigue. Um, if you haven't had any sleep or not caring for a sick dog, make sure you look after yourself by getting some sleep and rest. The more positive you are, or the better you're feeling, the better they feel, right? And they go, okay, mum's got it.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

Because they can pick up on our emotions, can't they? They know when we're feeling sad and whatever. So, like if we're sad and anxious all the time, they're gonna feel that, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Yeah, um, okay, I want to talk about meaningful memories. How can we create meaningful memories with our dogs while they're still here without making every moment feel sad or feel heavy? Because obviously that's in the back of our mind. But what can we do like to create those like happy memories?

SPEAKER_00 26:13

You know, it's a really interesting thing because um I was talking about do you create a bucket list, right? Somebody said to me the other day, I was doing an animal communication, what's on my dog's bucket list? I couldn't stop laughing because I was going, you know, all I really want was this dog was um, you know, a bone and a biscuit and to be with you. And I think she wanted more, right? I should have said an international holiday. But um, as funny as it might seem, write down a little bucket list. That could be as simple as um taking your dog to the beach and just sitting in the sand and allowing them to smell all the beautiful ocean smells, or um, you know, for me, rather than me saying what should be on your bucket list, think about things that you love to do with your dog. Now, um, the other day I was talking to these people and I said the dog wishes to go to such and such a place. And I could see her thinking, how am I going to make this happen? Because this girl didn't have a vehicle. And I said to her, Do you have a cram? Because it feels like you take your dog. Oh, I put him in this. And I said, Well, great, put him in that and go for a walk, right? But you need to get to the destination and have a little picnic. Go and do something that you're seeing together, take photos. Because, like for me, my bucket list with Ajax was to, you know, he was a glorious golden retriever with the big tail, was to get professional photos. I'd only ever had professional photos done of him when he was uh about 12 months old and he was now 13 and I went, I'll get these photos. But because it was winter, I hadn't bathed him. And I kept thinking, I'll bath him and then I'll get photos. Like, let's step back here for a second, anybody. Do you notice that my hair wasn't washed last night? No. Does anybody notice that the donor wasn't bath? But I had this fixated in my head until I got in bath, I couldn't do photos. It is one of my biggest regrets, right? Why didn't you just go get a sun donner? Why didn't I have taken loads of photos and they're crap? They're everywhere, right? But the thing is, is um go and do these things, don't put it off. And even if you do it today and then wait for the put the perfect moment.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Yeah, just do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Your pet's still here in two years' time, go get another round. What does it matter, right? Because you have made those memories. Go and do fun things. And it's like the um usually for me when dogs are talking about things, it's just enjoying the time with my parents, right? Enjoying the time, doing the things. Oh my god, I've just got a message from some dog and I don't know which dog it is. It's like, let's go out and eat horse poo. Okay, great, I'll share that with you. You know, it's the small moments like we might not enjoy it, but they enjoy these things, right? And um and then just being able to go, yeah, we've done this together and we've enjoyed this time. Like, I'm not big into going, oh, you need to go and get the paw print and the nose print. But um, I've got to tell you, when Ajax had passed, I wanted to take his paw print. And for whatever reason, it was so um soft and smooth that it didn't work. Now imagine if I thought about this six months before and I'd taken it because I wanted to turn it into a little necklace. So, you know, sometimes doing all these things when we've got no stressful times to worry about, and it doesn't need to be perfect, but we've done it, we can tick it off and say, Yep, I've got it, and I'm really happy with that. And you can think about things because I know a lot of people like to now get tattoos of that print, right? Or um, so it's the bucket list is maybe for them, but also for you for things that you might like to have or keep, but don't get into the sadness, right? Get into this is fun, this is joyful. And for Fergie, his bucket list was um, how many people have 16-year-old golden retrievers? Not many, right? I'd adopted this guy at nine and a half. I suspected he would live for maybe one or two years because he was pretty treated pretty roughly before I got him. And when he reached 15 years and 10 months, I went, oh my god, this guy's gonna make 16. I need to do a party, right? So I went and I ordered cats and I ordered cake toppers and I ordered all these things. And of course, a month down the track, he got really, really sick, and I thought he's not gonna make his 16th birthday. So I had invited all of our veterinary team that we'd worked with, everybody that had kind of been instrumental in this beautiful dog's life. I invited them over for the party. I made this cake and he sat there, and I was so funny because I had nine dogs there in addition to him, and they're jumping over my shoulder trying to get to the cake, and he's trying to eat this cake. Long story short, he made 16 years, one month, and one day. So um I could have waited, but yeah, that was so much fun, and that's a memory that stays in my mind. I know he was having he knew it was his birthday, and he knew it was so much fun. If we can make moments like that, that stays with us, not that sadness.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Yeah, it's the memories, and that reminds me, I did actually create an Oodle bucket list that I need to share with with everyone, but um exactly and just having those moments, right? Like just um whether it's the photo shoots or just just the little things. And I I know um with the I've got the I did the the paw prints with with um Latte and um and Neo a few like a couple of years ago because it was the same thing, it was saying I don't know how long we're gonna have them. I have got tears somewhere as well, but I thought I'm gonna get them now, so I've got them because it is, I didn't have to worry bury. And I know a lot of the time when you get them cremated and stuff, they do all that. But again, it's it's if that feels sad, you know, rather than when you're doing it yourself and go, let's just do this. That's a fun little activity, guys. And that's how I treated it. It was like, come on, we're gonna do this. And so I made it like a little fun thing. So I think um, again, it's what what is what is it that they enjoy? What can we do more moments of that like for us, you know, when we go to Woodgate every year? They loved it up there, they love sitting in the sand and going for walks. Even Latte, you know, sometimes she'd struggle walking, but she'd run up the beach and it was like, oh, she's in a happy place. Like they they just love it. So when we have those moments, we I mean, my camera, my phone is just full of dog photos at the best of times, but it is just about making as many memories because I I literally will just sit there and scroll through and go, Oh, remember that, remember this. Like and it's and it is really nice to have that as well.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

The um I saw one the other day, they had a canvas and they put some white um, it's not paint, but it's some sort of oh yes, I've seen it, and they walk over it and they leave all their footprints all over it. Yeah, and like just doing those things. Yeah, it's really cool. Or I've seen ones where they lick it, they put the peanut butter on this side of the plastic and they look done that too. So imagine if you've got kids doing that with your kids or with us who don't have kids because we are adults, you know, just doing those fun activities together. But doing something fun together makes you laugh, and then you can look at it and go, Wow, that was really funny. Because generally, doing any of these kind of activities, it does create a world of laughter because you know it's not perfect, it's chaos. And in my case, I have two books. So if I was trying to do them both at once, it'd be absolute mayhem in this household.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Um, yeah, I mean, all that sort of stuff's fun, isn't it? Um, what advice would you give someone who feels like they are constantly anxious about that day?

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Oh, just try to remind them about um staying focused on today and not worrying about tomorrow because um tomorrow never comes. My father taught me that. Tomorrow never comes because it becomes the next day, right? So focus now, enjoy now, enjoy the moments now, and whatever is to happen will happen. You can't change the outcome.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Yeah, that's right. And I think that's the thing we want to be able to control, you know, all that sort of stuff. And sometimes that it this stuff can be out of our control. Um, but yeah, I think that now is such an important part of this conversation. Let's look at now, let's not worry about what if and when and you know, or what's gonna happen down the track. Let's just look at today. What can we do today to help make their make them have a great day? Um, okay, I want to finish with a bit of a fun question. Um, or maybe it's fun, I don't know. If our dogs could talk during this stage of their life, so you know they can maybe coming towards the end, what do you think they would actually want us to stop stressing about and just enjoy doing with them instead?

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Well, I think we've covered this several times today, but it's to stay in the moment. Probably most dogs that I talk to that are at the end of life, uh, because I do do a lot of communications with pets coming towards the end and then pets who are also past. So I do experience both of those. They tell their parents to chillax out, just relax, right? Go with the flow of what occurs. People will say, Oh, well, what about this, Donna? What about that? And I go, they don't have a you need to do this and you need to do that. They just want to be with you, right? So is it lying on the couch snuggling? Is it, you know, going for that walk with Ajax the week before he passed? I took him across the road to the park and it's near a beautiful big lake. And I put a little blanket down and we just lay there, right? And it was so peaceful and so beautiful. I'm able to go back to that spot. But the funny story was a week later I went back there just to stand in that moment and and I was grieving. And I looked up and there was this tree, and I swear to God, I've got a picture of it. In the tree was the bark, was the shape of a golden retriever's head. And because I thought I thought, Donna, you're being really wacky at this moment. There was a lady walking past, and I asked her to come down and look at this and tell me what she thought, and she said, Oh, that's a Labrador. And then that's insane. Oh my god. So, you know, because I was able just to do some things with him and be in the moment, enjoy that time, and all of a sudden it was like um as if he created a moment for me to say thank you. This is where our special place was, this is what we got to do together. So, you know, it's easy for us to talk about um, please try and stay in the moment. And I know when you're stressed and there's so much going on, it's very, very hard. But just try and take one little moment and enjoy it, right? Go and take a little photo. Like little Jess, one of her memories was she used to lie outside in the gazanias all the time, right? There's beautiful yellow ones. And there was this tiny little 19-year-old poodle with no fur on her lying in the middle of the gazanias. It was such a beautiful moment. And every time I see them flower, I think of her, right? And it just brings me beautiful joy and and yellow being sunshine and yellow being bright and all that. So it's it's something that I I cherish.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Yeah. And I think we've all got those moments and those memories that that we we do need to cherish, right? And of course, you know, if anyone's feeling like this, um, Donna has um written a book about pet grief and she's got another book coming out about this very topic that we're talking about, which is anticipatory grief. Um, so that's going to be launched um sometime soon, I'm guessing. But uh, what we'll do is we'll put the um all the details in the show notes as well. So um you can go and find Donna, have a look at her website, check out her book. Uh have you got a wait list for the new book, Donna? Do you know wait lists ready so people can sign up for it? No, I haven't. I should be. Well, that's something we need to do. That's something we need to do. So maybe by the time this podcast comes out, there'll be a wait list. So if you're feeling like this, you can join the wait list for the book for when it comes out. There you go. Um, thank you so much for your time, Donna.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

I was gonna say, I'd like to think that it will already be up there and available because I decided that I was not wasting time. It needed to be out there for people.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Okay, maybe it'll be out by the time that this goes live, and then we'll have a lengthy weekend buy it as well. So we'll see what happens with timing. Um, thanks, Donna, for everything. Um, I didn't cry, I made it through without crying. Um, but yeah, if you if you do want to reach out to Donna about, you know, an animal that you've got in this life or one that's passed over, she is a great person to talk to. I've done that several times and it really does help you come to terms with things, I guess, reframe, get over some of the emotions that we might be feeling and just check in on on how our little babies are doing. Um, thank you so much for being part of the podcast, Donna. Thank you so much for inviting me. That's it for today, guys. Uh everything's going to be in the show notes. If you um, as I said, got any questions, you can reach out to Donna directly. But in the meantime, stay caught. Would you like to know more about the services we provide here at 3 Sport Dogs? Then visit our website. 3 is in the number 3sportdogs.com.au. Also send me an email if you've got any questions or to request specific topics in future episodes. If you'd like to become a collaborative partner or just to tell me how much you love the podcast, I would love to hear from you.