Becoming a Thoughtful Traveller: Insights with Amanda Kendle

Amanda Kendle is a podcaster (The Thoughtful Travel Podcast), travel blogger (NotABallerina.com) and writer known for her thoughtful approach to travel.

In this episode of the Global Travel Planning Podcast, Tracy Collins chats with Amanda about her Thoughtful Travel Framework and what we can all do to become better travellers by adopting a more mindful, thoughtful approach.

⭐️ Guest - Amanda Kendle
📝  Show Notes - Episode  1

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• Episode #14 - Visiting Japan: Top tips for first-time visitors

Transcript

Tracy Collins [00:00:06]:
Hi. And welcome to the Global Travel Planner Podcast. I'm your host, Tracey Collins, who with my expert guests takes you on a journey to destinations around the globe providing itinerary ideas, practical tips, to go tips and more to help you plan your next travel adventure. Hi. And welcome to episode number 1 of the Global Travel Planning podcast. In this very first episode, I wanted to take the opportunity to consider some of the ways we can all travel better and more thoughtfully. So who better to chat to than the wonderful Amanda Kendall, the creator and voice behind the thoughtful travel podcast and travel blog nottaballerina.com, about her thoughtful travel framework and what we can all do to become better travelers by adopting a more mindful, thoughtful approach. So, Amanda, obviously, you are kind of the the first person I think about when is when I wanna know more about How myself I can become a more thoughtful and mindful traveler.

Tracy Collins [00:01:02]:
The person to talk to has gotta be you.

Amanda Kendle [00:01:05]:
Thank you. I do like to rave on about thoughtful travel, so I'm glad that you recognize this.

Tracy Collins [00:01:12]:
I know. I do. And, I'm particularly keen in your because I have throughout my life, I've traveled in a way, I guess, which I've is reflective and thoughtful, and I've traveled quite slowly. But I think there's there's And and I think since actually COVID, I think there is a a certainly a move towards more kind of deeper, connections when you travel. But I'm also mindful that there's a kind of this bucket list travel, thing that goes on as well as, like, how many of these places can I tick off? And I Don't want to be like that. So I know you have a thoughtful travel framework, which I'm fascinated about. And I thought so it would be great for you to have a Have a chat with me about those and sort of share all all those, those ideas that you have.

Amanda Kendle [00:01:57]:
Excellent. Yes. I know I think you're right that post COVID there there's a Chunk of travelers who are definitely more thoughtful and mindful, I think it kind of has gone two ways because there's also the the other half that have gone More bucket listy and revenge travel and let's get everything done in case, you know, kind of we can't travel sometime because I think before that we never thought That travel could stop. So I think it goes both ways. But there's definitely more audience for being thoughtful and mindful and Doing travel better and right. So, yeah, you mentioned my framework. So let me give you the quickest overview, and then we can dive deeper. Otherwise, I'll just give you the nonstop lecture, and that's Boring.

Amanda Kendle [00:02:36]:
But, so the the the framework is basically that I think to be a thoughtful traveler, you need to Be more thoughtful at the 3 key stages. So the before your trip, the during your trip, and the after your trip. And I think, generally speaking, people are better at being more thoughtful before the trip, but they don't always think so much about the during and after. So that's my broad framework, as we can dive into that more deeply, I

Tracy Collins [00:03:06]:
think. Yeah. Absolutely. Because, because like as I said before, I've got kind of a whole lot of ideas of things that I've done in my life. But what I'd never thought about doing have you trademarked this, Amanda? I'm like, this is a mistake. I know. I was kinda like, this this Just totally makes sense because I had a whole lot of random thoughts about I do this, I do that. You know? I might I read about places, and I've got a lot of articles on my website about, you know, best books to read before you visit certain countries and what to watch on TV before you visit certain countries because that's a great way to prepare yourself.

Tracy Collins [00:03:40]:
But I I kinda think going through each of those different, stages is brilliant. So I don't know if you wanna start with I was seeing the before.

Amanda Kendle [00:03:48]:
Yes. I think it's probably the only logical way. So I think you are already a really thoughtful traveler. So this is just gonna kind of Throw a framework on top of your ideas and maybe give you some some new ones as well. But, yeah, definitely the before part. So what you said about, books to read, TV to watch all of that. I've that's one of my key things. And not like reading a guide book or watching a documentary, which is Also fine.

Amanda Kendle [00:04:12]:
But watching, you know, watching a TV series that's set in that city or that country or reading novels or, You're just kind of finding different ways to immerse yourself in that culture before you arrive. A, because it's fun, because I love to read especially, And, b, because you kind of get a different feel for a place by reading, like, a novel that's set there compared to, you know, reading a The guidebook about the the culture or customs or something. You actually kind of have this, you know, feeling, I think, for a place that you could get from those kind of, that kind of input, which is different to to anything else. So for example, I'm going back to Japan shortly and I have Although I often do this anyway, but I've been really reading lots of novels set in Japan because, you know, it's quite a unique place, the culture's quite different, and you get so much out of just, a novel that is set in Japan. You have all these little ideas and things to look out for and things that, you're curious about and dive deeper into. So, I love that you have all of these lists and ideas and stuff on your website already. It's perfect.

Tracy Collins [00:05:13]:
I think I I think I need a best Books to read before you go to Japan post though, which again, because I'm I think I've got about another 6 weeks before I go, so I can definitely fit some, some reading in before then.

Amanda Kendle [00:05:24]:
Oh, you better hit me up for some tips because I have got a lot. So I will send you a few of my favorites. So

Tracy Collins [00:05:31]:
yeah. Some of them are

Amanda Kendle [00:05:31]:
nice and short too. So if you haven't got too long, that's The ideal time. Awesome. So there's that. And, of course, also, I think it probably goes without saying to an audience like yours, do do that other kind of research about the culture, you know, the how to fit in, how to do you know, what kind of customs you should be aware of so that you don't do something that's, you know, culturally offensive or embarrassing. Those kind of things are important. And a bit of the language at least, you know, the the polite phrases, at least, hello, goodbye, thank you, please, Just so you can, you know, have that opening phrases and, being polite makes you know, it does make a huge difference. I think as English speakers, it's hard for us to imagine the difference it makes, but,

Tracy Collins [00:06:14]:
I think it's really important. That's a really, you know, it's a really good point. I, The 1st place I actually moved to independently was to France, and that was to to learn French. So I lived in France for about a year and a half, which was Perfect. So completely amazed myself in the the French culture. Was actually fluent, totally fluent within 6 months because I worked For a French family, the children didn't speak in English, so I had to.

Amanda Kendle [00:06:38]:
That's so cool.

Tracy Collins [00:06:39]:
It was brilliant. I think that kind of set me up for the rest of the the way I want to travel and kinda Live with people in the country because then that's the best way. When you're actually living in a family environment and, you know, taking the kids to school and make Taking the meals and go to the supermarket and doing that sort of thing, then you really learn about the culture.

Amanda Kendle [00:06:57]:
A 100%. And the language. That's so impressive. So yeah. I think that that's yeah. Getting close to the people somehow is such a such a fabulous way. The other parts about the before The before thoughtfulness, I suppose, for me, travel gives us so much personal development. So you kind of, you know, Referred to some of that already in that France example.

Amanda Kendle [00:07:20]:
But often, it's things you don't know, like, it or you don't realize until later. Like, you know, you become more confident or Or you solve a problem. You know, often when you're traveling, you get that idea that, solves like, oh, you know, should I or shouldn't I leave this job? Or, you know, Am I ready to make it some other big change in life? And I I find often when you're traveling, perhaps it's that you've got a bit of extra mind space and a bit more inspiration, and Those kind of decisions come easier. So I often, like I know it sounds a bit weird, but I often plan to solve a problem or ponder a problem while I'm traveling. So kind of set some personal goals. It might be something simpler than that or just to oh, I wanna, you know, increase my confidence or get out of my comfort zone or take some more risks, that kind of thing. And the other thing I think that being thoughtful before a trip is about is not I don't like to plan in a detailed way. Like, I don't like to have a really planned itinerary, but I do like to just do enough research that I I'm aware of ways I can do good or do better when I'm traveling.

Amanda Kendle [00:08:19]:
So For example, I've just come back from Thailand and that was a media trip. So the itinerary was pretty much planned out for me. But even before I said yes to the trip, I did a bit of research just on the places that we would go. You know, are they kind of ethical? Like, you know, is there any, dodgy wildlife tourism involved, for example? Or are they you know, will we be will we be contributing to the local community, or are we gonna be staying only or visiting only places where They're foreign owned and all the money will be, you know, drained straight out of Thailand somewhere else. Those kinds of things. Because sometimes you do have, you know, a fair bit of, You know, vote with your dollars kind of say there.

Tracy Collins [00:08:57]:
Yep. Yep. Absolutely. And I must admit that's something that I do, again, encourage our guests on, On my UK travel planning, podcast and and website and the way that I run that is very much encouraging people to stay with, in B and Bs In guesthouses, it's the best way. If you wanna go and, you know, have a great Scottish breakfast, you need to have somebody from Scotland cook that for you. And you're gonna get that. Yeah. You're gonna get that in a BNB.

Tracy Collins [00:09:25]:
Yep.

Amanda Kendle [00:09:25]:
For sure.

Tracy Collins [00:09:25]:
So and they're gonna they're gonna know the local area. They're gonna know, you know, they get it's just a Much for me, it's much better experience to be able to to do that. And, obviously, going to Japan, that was where I was looking at. Now probably don't know how to pronounce this correctly, but is it Rio RioCan? Ryokan?

Amanda Kendle [00:09:42]:
Pretty close. Yeah. RioCan.

Tracy Collins [00:09:43]:
Yep. I've managed to book 1. So, again, that kinda thinking, okay, that's That that's a good move. That's a good way to kind of, you know, get out of the the larger hotel chains and, actually meet some Japanese

Amanda Kendle [00:09:57]:
people. Yeah. Exactly. Because you have amazing conversations. I remember when we were, traveling in Denmark a couple of years ago And out in kind of rural Denmark, we stayed in the basement of a Danish couple. And I was really obsessed with the Danish education system Because I've been watching a TV series on Netflix called Rita, which I highly recommend, and I had learned through that that the Danish education system was so different from ours, and they would have, like, a teacher for, you know, for 9 years, the same teacher. It was very, you know, very connected. And and then, of course so we stayed in this, house, And they were both teachers.

Amanda Kendle [00:10:33]:
I was like, oh, hit the jackpot. And so I asked them a 1000000 questions. My son had started to roll his eyes every time we bumped into them because he knew that it would be a long conversation, but it was really fascinating. And I came home with all these ideas and, you know, just I love that kind of thing, and you probably weren't gonna get that if I stayed at, you know, the Hyatt or something. So

Tracy Collins [00:10:52]:
No. Absolutely not. Definitely not. So, obviously, I'm I'm gonna I try to learn, languages these days, but I have to say my mine's a bit of a sieve. So I've got to But where I actually will start to write them down and practice as much as I can beforehand. But I think, yeah, that's that's, that's a great way to be able to, you know, just saying that hello. I actually did a tour when I was I was back over in Europe in June, and I did a tour. And when we're on the tour bus, I just went over to Paris for a day trip to Try it out so I could talk to my audience about what was it like.

Tracy Collins [00:11:23]:
And what was really good, what I really liked about that tour guide is that on the coach when we're traveling around, he was like, okay. Let's let's learn some, How to say hello, how to say thank you in French, which is great, which which is really, really good because most of the people on that Coach couldn't speak any French at all. So at least they had somebody said, go in and say, bonjour, smile, because that will get you a long way. And it was great. Very

Amanda Kendle [00:11:45]:
incredible. That's perfect. I think all guides should be doing that. Absolutely. I've often thought there needs to be more language education amongst the tour guides, so That's such a good idea. Yeah. I know. And it is hard.

Amanda Kendle [00:11:57]:
I find the same. Like, before I I had it was really short notice to go to Thailand on this trip, and I thought, Oh, this is the time I should learn more than, you know, hello and thank you, which is all I'd learned on previous Thai trips, I confess. And I downloaded a couple of apps, But, like, Thai is not on Duolingo, which is my, like, language learning app of choice, so that was a bit tricky. And then the apps were like there was all this Thai writing, and I was like, oh, It's so hard. So I didn't end up doing very well with it, but I have promised myself that I would do better next time. So

Tracy Collins [00:12:27]:
Well, Well, I'd say you've got the target for the next trip to Thailand. Is that okay? Next time, I'm gonna learn a little bit more. Exactly. My husband did a trip to he went to Wales in, in June. And he learned a whole lot of Welsh. Oh. Yeah. He came out, which was great.

Tracy Collins [00:12:41]:
And and that went down really well. Yeah.

Amanda Kendle [00:12:43]:
I can imagine. Yeah. Because somewhere like that, no one probably expects you to to bother because they'll also definitely speak English. So it's not, yeah. Oh, that's really lovely. I love it. Yeah. I had been busy practicing my Japanese.

Amanda Kendle [00:12:56]:
Obviously, I lived there for a couple of years, so I have a reasonable knowledge of Japanese. But It's a bit rusty, so I've been busily practicing ahead of, my next trip there. But, we'll see how that pans out. Hello.

Tracy Collins [00:13:10]:
So during your trip, what would be so I've kinda done the things before. So I do a lot of those things. This is really good. I'm sure all of the listeners would think, yes. I do those. That's It's really good. So what about when you're actually there, when you're on your trip?

Amanda Kendle [00:13:21]:
So, there's a few things. A lot of it's about talking to people, being curious, asking questions, and then also kind of internal reflection and stuff like that. And then plus the the thing that probably everyone already tries to do or at least is aware of is also while you're there being Kind of ethical and sustainable and, you know, trying to minimize your impact. This you know, the re you know, take reusable water bottles All water filters limit your plastic use, all of that kind of stuff. Because, traditionally, it was harder to do that when we traveled, You know, then when you're at home Yeah. Especially if you're in a country where, you know, you shouldn't be drinking the tap water, then, you know, it's been so easy to buy bottled water and all of that kind of stuff. So that that's kind of a I think a lot of people are aware of that. Sometimes it's a bit takes a bit more effort, but but that's one thing.

Amanda Kendle [00:14:13]:
And then in terms of the being curious and talking to people thing, obviously, the the before has helped this if you've kind of Planned in such a way that you're more likely to have more contact with local people. But also, just taking advantage of moments where you realize, oh, we could have a chat Here. So I have a a strong memory of being in a funny little cafe, also in Denmark, actually. And my son was 8 or 9, and He was busy with, they had, like, computer games set up in this cafe. And so he was, like, busy and didn't wanna leave. I'm like, okay. And I was just just, you know, kind of looking around, and it wasn't very busy. And the waitress came up to me to, I don't know, take my Coffee cup away or something.

Amanda Kendle [00:14:56]:
And we just started chatting, and, we had this, like, I don't know how long, 15, 20 minute fabulous conversation about Danish politics, because I'd been they must have had an election at the time. There was posters everywhere, and so I just I don't know how we even got on to the topic, but I was aware that I wanted Awesome about this and Yeah. And she was, like, really keen to have a chat. And so kind of just seizing on those moments when you can, I think, you know, is Something that I'm really aware of sometimes? I'm not that I love people and talking to people, but I am a bit shy to talk to a brand new person. But I when I'm traveling, I think, well, otherwise, I'm not gonna find out, so let's have a go.

Tracy Collins [00:15:35]:
That's true. It's like that Curiosity, isn't it? It's like curiosity because I also love people. And I think that's an element of people who love travel, to be honest, is that we we love people. Because yeah. I mean, I enjoy going and looking at the places and the destinations. But for me, it's about the people who live there and the stories. I love stories. I wanna know people's stories that tell me about your life.

Tracy Collins [00:15:55]:
What how you know, just just tell me about how do you live and where do you live and, You know, how many kids have you gotten? Do they go to school, and where do they go to school, and what do you do? And it's, like, you know, inter just basic Things that were where do you go to shop? What do you do at night? You know? When do you just those basic kinda like, how do you live your life? What is say what is the same about your life, And what is different about your life?

Amanda Kendle [00:16:18]:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Tracy Collins [00:16:19]:
And that that is the joy of travel, isn't it? It's being able to do that. Absolutely. And People are so curious as well. They wanna they wanna know about you as well. They wanna know where are you from, what you know, why are you visiting, what do you come to see, And, and it's great. And those connections, I've been very privileged. I know you've lived in in a few places as well, Amanda, is that, I've been so privileged. I have got friends all over the world, and I love that.

Tracy Collins [00:16:44]:
I just love that I have got you know, I could go into so many countries and stay with my friends For periods of time and, you know, I went to actually Denmark again. It's really interesting. I'm a very good friend in Denmark. And, last time I was there, We went and I'd met her mom initially in the late eighties, early nineties. I know. And, we went and she she cooked the traditional Danish, Neil. And, so my husband came along as well, and it was wonderful. We just had such a wonderful even so my friend came with her 2 children, My mom and we sat and just had a really lovely evening experience and kinda what it was like in Denmark for a Danish family.

Amanda Kendle [00:17:25]:
Yeah. Yeah. Those sort of things are just like the perfect travel moments, aren't they? I think, Oh, yeah. Yeah. I, I'm always very grateful when I ponder those, you know, those kind of experiences I've had. In fact, next year, we're actually planning a UK trip, Because, yes, I have to pick your brains. But, we have a very dear friend who we met in Cambodia. He was, in fact, our tour guide on a small group tour we were on, and we've he, he's kind of in the in the middle age between my myself and my son.

Amanda Kendle [00:17:55]:
Never sure if he's friends more with my son or with me. We fight over it. But, but he's getting married, to his, British boyfriend next year. And yeah. And we're invited, and we're so thrilled to be going over and yeah. And those kind of moments. And we've traveled with him in various We're only in Asia so far. You know, we'll meet up in various parts of Asia and have just those, you know, fabulous experiences, and Now we get to go to the UK for his wedding and, you know, those kind of things are just I find them super

Tracy Collins [00:18:25]:
special. Oh, it's it is so special. And I'll I'll I'll gonna I'll Give one little more story, I guess, about so in in the nineties, I, I I worked in Botswana, And, I taught so I ran in history school in the morning, and in the afternoon, I taught English. And I taught English to 2 South Korean little girls who'd moved over with their family from South Korea. So the dad ran the garage in in Caberon, the capital of Botswana. So they were, I think, 4 and 5 at the time. I taught them English so they could get into the into the school system, because they spoke no English whatsoever. So last September.

Tracy Collins [00:19:00]:
So we've kept in touch this entire time since night I think it was probably 90 3/94, something like that when I first met them. I actually went to the youngest, daughter's wedding in Sydney in September.

Amanda Kendle [00:19:13]:
No way. Yep. Yep. That's so beautiful.

Tracy Collins [00:19:16]:
How special is that?

Amanda Kendle [00:19:18]:
Yeah. Oh, those yeah. Exactly. Like, those are I don't know. There's just something so extra special about those kind of friends because you have these really different memories. It's not just, You know, we went to school together, and then we did the normal growing up thing or we worked together. It's these you know, you have these memories that are based in, You know, really interesting locations and cultures, and it's just yeah. I think, you learn so much from friends like that that you otherwise don't really have Access to, I think.

Tracy Collins [00:19:46]:
Hello? No. That's a that's a privilege to travel, isn't it, that we have the ability to do that.

Amanda Kendle [00:19:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Such a privilege. So okay. Well, let me segue back into the during being thoughtful during, because it's kind of connected the the thinking about what we've got out of it and thinking about What we're learning as we go, and sometimes we do this, but I always just try and make the time to think about it. So I like to keep a travel journal, Or sometimes I am too busy to really properly keep a journal, and then I just do some notes, you know, dot point notes in my phone or somewhere, Anything at all.

Amanda Kendle [00:20:22]:
Like, I think sometimes they're trying to push yourself to always keep a real travel journal can be, a disaster because you fail after the first 2 or 3 nights and you're busy or whatever. So even if it's just dot points in your phone, but I like to think about what's different and what's the same, which you kind of mentioned, And how you're adjusting to the the different stuff. You always think, like, when you land in a a new culture that 1st day or 2, you know, often you'll have some form of culture shock, and It's really interesting to note down, like, what things are really unusual, like different smells or, you know, maybe the 1st night I remember actually when I moved back to Australia from Europe, I couldn't sleep the 1st several nights because, well, early in the morning, the birds would wake me up, And the birds here sounded so ugly and, like, annoying compared to the pretty birds I had been listening to in Germany, and then suddenly the Australian birds, and they were, Like, right outside my window, and they were like, like, awful sounds. And they would be starting at, like, 4 in the morning because it was summer. And I was like, I can't sleep through this. It was just so awful. But now, of course, I've been back here for, what, 13, 14 years and don't notice them at all because you're used to it again. So it's those kind of, those kind of differences that you only know at the beginning.

Amanda Kendle [00:21:37]:
And even after a week somewhere, you've forgotten. So if you don't make a note of them, yeah, you might just never remember and they're really interesting.

Tracy Collins [00:21:46]:
That's really cool. That is so cool. And that that's I I noticed when I was back in the UK in April, again, that the the birds there just sound so sweet. Yes. When you come in the snow, you're just like, yeah. Exactly. Sport, squawk, book, which you don't you don't kinda you just get used to it because that's what you wake up to, and then you have that difference and you're like, oh my goodness. I know.

Tracy Collins [00:22:06]:
I feel

Amanda Kendle [00:22:06]:
like I feel like there's an industry in Australia for teaching the birds to sing. But

Tracy Collins [00:22:13]:
That is so funny. That is so poetry. I love the idea of writing those things down because, like, you know, I I remember that from my trip Because I was there in April, and I was really conscious of it because it like you say, you you do notice that there's quite a big difference. But it's those things that you would forget over time that if you write them down that you can reflect Dawn, and and and thank

Amanda Kendle [00:22:34]:
you. Yeah. Because you get used to things quickly. I remember the 1st time I was in Southeast Asia. I was in Vietnam. And That 1st day, I thought I am never ever going to be out across the road, you know, when there's, like, 30 lanes of motorbikes going past you and There's a restaurant on the other side of the road, and I remember standing there for ages thinking, I actually don't know how to get from here across the road. There's just this traffic's not gonna stop. There's, like, so much of it.

Amanda Kendle [00:22:59]:
What do I do? Yeah. And then, you know, within a few days, you get accustomed to just walking out, and, you know, they go around and it's all fine. But That first moment, I was I was actually pretty scared Yeah. And thinking, oh my goodness, this is just hard. And and then maybe a decade or more later, I did it for the 1st time with my son. He was, 2 or 3, we're in Penang. And I remember that distinctly having that same feeling again even though I'd got past it the 1st time. But this time, Had a yeah.

Amanda Kendle [00:23:24]:
He must have been about 2. So he he could walk, but, you know, not you know, he was a bit toddler y and a bit Yeah. You know, I was like, I I don't want I don't want him to have to run across the road the way I might, and so I wanted to carry him, but then that's a bit trickier. And so I went through that Again Yeah. And then, of course, you know, he quickly got used to it. And now he's, like, taller than me, so it's easy. But, you know, those sorts of things are really fascinating to remember, I think so. Yeah.

Amanda Kendle [00:23:50]:
Kind of making notes about those things or just even, like, kind of intentionally debriefing with your travel companion, whoever you're traveling with, having that chat at night, you know, what do we think you know, what do we notice today? What was different? You know, what was interesting? What what what were we curious about? I I know with my son, we'll often end up going down lots of Google rabbit holes because, you know, we'll have, oh, what was this all about? Or I remember we were in, Malaysian LEGOLAND. He used to love going to LEGOLAND, and they have a water park there. And there was a lot of, Muslim kids there Who are wearing, you know, bathing suits that covered, you know, head, you know, full length arms and legs. Yep. And he was, you know, he was, oh, that's unusual. You know, what's that all about? And I I I explained what I understood. He goes, but, like, the little kids don't have it. You know, how old do you have to be before you do dress like that? And I was like, I really don't know.

Amanda Kendle [00:24:42]:
And so we you know, and also I didn't I thought it was probably not the right thing to go and have a conversation with someone about who I'd never met and just Stumbled across in the water park. So, you know, later that night, we're, you know, in the Google rabbit hole figuring out these things and, you know, just learning more about different people's ways of life, and, Google's pretty good like that. I always think at the end of a trip, I look back at my Google search history, and it's so random but so fascinating to me. So, yeah, Oh, that's another thing.

Tracy Collins [00:25:09]:
Brilliant. Yeah. That's it. And you you, you know, you you those questions come up that you would not have thought you know, never in your life before have you thought this because but then you're presented with this situation. You go, oh, I don't know about this. Let me find out. Yeah. And that's it.

Tracy Collins [00:25:21]:
And it's great because, I mean, I traveled a lot with my daughter, and I know you traveled a lot you travel a lot with your on as well. So my daughter as well, when she was, you know, up until 18, 19, we used to go right we're all over the world, and she's traveled extensively herself, which I think makes her, which is 27 now, but she's very confident, can talk to people. She's got all of those skills and very curious. I mean, she's actually just got a PhD. She's now

Amanda Kendle [00:25:44]:
at the top there. I'm very curious. Yes.

Tracy Collins [00:25:47]:
Yeah. So yeah. So she's doing extremely well, but I still I think a lot of that is about the back there. You know, we were lucky enough, that I and I was a single parent with her, but I was a teacher. I've managed that was my priority with her. It was like, School holidays, we go and travel. We travel, you know, and that's what we

Amanda Kendle [00:26:05]:
did. Yeah. No. Same to me, you know, same thing, single parent, but I, always said I'd rather have a small house than an old car and, take my son wherever we could manage. And now he's so he's 13 and he's about to travel to the UK on his own for a soccer trip. And, you know, he's only 13, which is Kinda young, but he's not at all concerned. And fortunately, I'm also not concerned because I know that he's I mean, he's not going on his own. He's Going with a soccer coach and a team, but he's not going with me.

Amanda Kendle [00:26:35]:
There's no, you know, no parent involved or anything. But I know that from, you know, his experiences that he had, He's a very confident traveler. He knows, you know, what to do. If he got lost or something, you know, he would be absolutely fine. Whereas I think if he hadn't had those experiences, He'd also be a completely different kid. Like, his whole personality, I think, has been completely shaped by all the travels we've done. So, Yeah. Which I could talk about for hours too.

Amanda Kendle [00:27:01]:
Another day. Oh, I love talking about that because I'm really evangelistic about travel being good for kids.

Tracy Collins [00:27:09]:
So Yeah. I know. 100%. Absolutely. Okay. Are we are we done with during or can we

Amanda Kendle [00:27:14]:
go after? 1 more 1 more bit is just to think about the the ethics of of the during. You know, they're asking the questions and some of it you can't do until you're there, you know, checking checking where the money's going and You might not be able to know in advance sometimes until you're there. You know, just asking those gentle questions of making sure you're, you know, kind of directing your Dollars in the right way, or especially if you're going to come back and recommend places to other people, you know, finding out how that goes. And similarly, like with the spending money, buying stuff That the money is going back into the local communities and perhaps buying some stuff to take home that also is a really, you know, nice memory, like some Useful souvenirs or something like I like bringing back stuff I'm gonna eat or drink. I brought back lovely tea from Thailand. But also, Always bring back scarves from Thailand because I'm gonna wear them repeatedly and they're gonna remind me of my travels and, you know, those kinds of thoughtful bring home souvenirs.

Tracy Collins [00:28:11]:
Yeah. I always like, pictures. If I can find any kind of local artist, any pictures, that's something I I Particularly like I mean, I must admit, I am a bit of a I'm a bit of a fridge magnet person as well. The reason I'm gonna say that in my defense is that Often, just can't bring anything bigger for weight allowance. So Yes. Yes. Fridge magnet, at least I can fit that in my bag. So that that Yeah.

Tracy Collins [00:28:36]:
Totally. But, again, if I can get something that's been made locally, even a fridge you know, fridge magnets can be obviously awesome. Yeah. So Absolutely. Like that, then it then it's perfect. So Yeah. Yeah. And I think that is the the ethical thing is really important.

Tracy Collins [00:28:50]:
I know I was in Thailand in November last year, and I did go to an elephant Sanctuary and I did a lot of research beforehand.

Amanda Kendle [00:28:57]:
Oh,

Tracy Collins [00:28:57]:
yeah. And given given sanctions out before even committing to go to any of those places because, Yeah. Definitely. You've gotta be so

Amanda Kendle [00:29:05]:
careful. Yeah. So Absolutely. Yeah. Those kind of places, definitely, you wanna do that research first for sure. But even simple things like when we were I know I've mentioned that Denmark trip several times, but it was such a good trip. We wanted to hire bicycles when we're in Copenhagen because I thought that's a nice sustainable way to Around when my son was, I know, 9 or 10 or whatever he was then. So it was like, I thought he'd love riding everywhere.

Amanda Kendle [00:29:26]:
And, so So I was like, okay, well, I'll just have a look around and see what's available. And we found a, like a social enterprise bicycle hire business and the profits that they made, were sent down to Mozambique along with some of the bicycles, and they would train they sent people down to train Local people in Mozambique as, bicycle repair people so that then they could have their own business and have this ongoing livelihood and stuff. So it was like this really lovely kind of circle of, circle of good, you know, good giving everywhere. And we're riding bikes instead of, you know, using a car or whatever. So It was like such a win in all ways. And, you know, that was like I didn't even really know if I would find anything, but I was just kind of having a look around and Thinking, okay, well, if I'm going to spend my bike higher dollars somewhere or krona or euro, what do they have there? You know, you're right. I don't know. That's why it's Denmark, euros or krona.

Amanda Kendle [00:30:19]:
I can't remember. Scandinavia confuses me. And in that case, whatever money I spent in Denmark, it was doing good. It was like, you know, a nice Locally owned business, but also this whole social enterprise that helped in Mozambique in in a really sustainable useful way. So, You know, you never it will never thought that that's what I was gonna find, but I was open to it. And then I was like, okay, that's the place. We are layering there.

Tracy Collins [00:30:41]:
So Perfect.

Amanda Kendle [00:30:43]:
Brilliant. So after? Yep. So this is the problem about travel. Sometimes you have to go home. Right? And you have this after part.

Tracy Collins [00:30:53]:
Yeah. That's always the that's always the the the down bit.

Amanda Kendle [00:30:56]:
I know. I don't like the going home bit. I'm never ready. But Hello. So so this thoughtful travel framework, I guess, tries to hold on to the travel part as long as you possibly can. So, I, again, do that whole kind of being thoughtful and mindful about, you know, how is home different when I get home? Trying to remember the contrast and stuff. And, are there any new ideas or new habits I want to bring back? Things I mean, I'm very ritualistic with my tea drinking, and I Usually drink only green tea, and that definitely comes from my time in Japan and, you know, those sorts of things or, Yeah. It could be anything.

Amanda Kendle [00:31:35]:
Could be just something that you noticed someone do, especially if you're staying with someone else and they have, you know, interesting habits or rituals, so Bringing back those kind of new things into your life. But I think also when you get home, you actually wanna talk about your travels. And no doubt you have, Tracy had similar experiences to me where you know that some people actually don't really care at all, and you, you know, you might try and tell them stuff, but they're not interested. But I make sure I have. Yeah. You've been there, done that? Yes. Yeah. I think it makes Easier these days with social media because you can put up a few pictures and stuff, and then whoever is interested will ask you more questions, and I like, you know, being able to delve deeper with Those people.

Amanda Kendle [00:32:17]:
But I do have, you know, like, a a core group of friends who are definitely interested and will ask me lots of things, and I love kind of Having those conversations, you know, some that I'll catch up with for a couple and will you know, with the express purposes they wanna actually know about my trip. And, you know, I love those kind of diving deeper things. And I also like to, you know, look at These days, it's very easy. You can take, you know, 4,000 photos on your phone and then never look at them again. So I always try and do either, like sometimes I'll Print out a few pictures and, you know, put them in a, you know, collage y photo frame on the wall. We've got a few of those in our living room from various trips, or sometimes I'll make a photo book. It's just it's kind of nice to have a physical thing to look back through and something that we'll often grab and have a random look at and, you know, reminisce about what we learned and, and what we saw so those kinds of things. Or sometimes I'll even type up a journal type up my journal or, you know, often obviously, I'll do podcast episodes and stuff as well.

Amanda Kendle [00:33:16]:
So it's I have that advantage of, of of having almost having to find ways to look back. But I think in the looking back, you kind of can really think about How it went, what you might do differently, what you learned, what advice you would give someone else. You know, you can kind of Be really thoughtful about it. And the other part to that is I often find things I wanna know more about that, you know, I didn't even know I was gonna see or do particular things. And then you come back and Often don't have that much time on the trip, but once you come back, you can dive really deep. And there might be books to read or, like, just lots of Internet stuff to troll through or, Something to watch and having that kind of deeper connection with a place you can, you know, find the parts to it that are, you know, really inspiring to you. Like in Thailand, we were up in, Shanghai. We went to the White Temple.

Amanda Kendle [00:34:05]:
Have you ever been to the White Temple?

Tracy Collins [00:34:06]:
I haven't.

Amanda Kendle [00:34:07]:
No. So it's a crazy place and, like, little things for a start that I I kind of thought all temples were old, but this temple is new and it's created by an artist. It's kind of more like La Sagrada Familia in Barcelona. It's kind of this, You know, crazy, decadent, still being built, very similar in fact, still being built, may not be finished for decades kind of structure. But with all this Interesting history behind it. This particular artist, I became kind of obsessed with learning more about him and, you know, I didn't even know. Like, to me, I just I'd seen a picture, I was like, oh, White Temple. Okay.

Amanda Kendle [00:34:38]:
Nice. But now I'm like, oh, there's so much so much of interest behind this temple. Like, there's there's images of, Superman or, like all kinds of, modern, pop culture painted inside this temple. Like, whoever, didn't know you could do that in a temple? It's like, it's Fascinating. So those kind of things as well, like the, you know, go deeper. And then oh, the only other thing I do so then if We come back to the sustainability kind of part. The other main thing I do after a trip is so I tend to not do tick the boxes on, carbon offsets When I'm traveling, like, I don't buy the airline carla carbon offsets. I don't trust that they go to the best place, But I tend to, you know, there's lots of online calculators to calculate what, you know, your carbon footprint, what that, you what the emissions Where for, you know, your travels as a whole.

Amanda Kendle [00:35:31]:
Mhmm. And then I tend to donate that to somewhere that often that I found somewhere along the way that I think so it's not necessarily Even not necessarily planting trees or a 100% carbon related, but somewhere that I think I can do good, where that money will do good. So that's my kind of I don't know if it's a weird way to do it, but I feel that it kind of has this nice circular effect. And I'm giving back in a way, that I think is probably more beneficial than just ticking a box. So

Tracy Collins [00:35:58]:
Oh, no. I think that's really inter that's a really interesting way to do it and a good way to do it because, You know, I'm conscious about how much I'm flying at the minute. I seem to be on a on a airplane just about constantly, and, you know, I'm a train traveler. If I can go on a train, I'll go on a train. That's That's by far 100% the way that both myself and Doug would travel. So, obviously, it's it it would take a bit long to get to some other places or it would be impossible to

Amanda Kendle [00:36:21]:
get to some impossible. This is a Problem living in Australia is often impossible.

Tracy Collins [00:36:25]:
Yeah. Exactly. So so, it's, you know, it's flight after flight after flight after flight. So, you know, I like that idea. I like what you do, Amanda. I think that's That's really that's given me a kind of goal and something to think about as well that I can I can look at because I as I say, I'm so conscious about the fact that, You know, we are living on a a planet with, you know, tangible, huge effects, on the climate? Yeah. And so, You know, we that we you know you know when you jump on airplane, you're gonna be contributing to that. So it's it's conscious of how can I at least mitigate in some ways What I'm doing? So, yeah, bit of a bit of a fine balance, but I think it's been conscious of it.

Tracy Collins [00:37:01]:
I think being conscious is the first thing that you need to do and, like, you know, it It is a privilege that we can jump on airplanes and travel wherever we want most of the time, but I think the time has come where we need to be really conscious about what what we can do to give back.

Amanda Kendle [00:37:15]:
Definitely. Yep. A 100% agree. Well said. Yeah. Yeah. So that was we had a few segues because we've got lots of interesting things to talk about. But that is, Broadly speaking, my framework for being a thoughtful traveler.

Amanda Kendle [00:37:28]:
Done.

Tracy Collins [00:37:30]:
Perfect. And that is perfect. And I'm gonna because you are definitely I'm hoping you will hopefully come back on the podcast again because, honestly, I love to talk to you. I love chatting to you, but I think with this is perfect. This is enough. This episode is enough to give people plenty of things to think about, to reflect on, and things that they can do themselves to make travel For them, a bit more that they're better at traveling and more thoughtful, mindful when they travel. You're gonna just take 1 or 2 of these tips and implement them, it will make a difference. You'd have to do everything.

Amanda Kendle [00:37:59]:
I was just gonna say exactly that. Like, I think the most important thing is to be aware and be thinking of it. And you don't have to do everything perfectly, and none of us Travel perfectly all the time, but just being aware and putting some thought into it and what you might do differently, that's already, like, a massive thing that a lot of people don't do. So that's, Yeah. That's where we need to start.

Tracy Collins [00:38:18]:
Perfect. Well, thanks so much, Amanda, for coming on to the podcast. It's so brilliant to talk to you today. And, yeah, as I say, we'll you'll definitely be coming back on.

Amanda Kendle [00:38:27]:
Yes. I can't wait. Thanks so much for having me,

Tracy Collins [00:38:29]:
Tracy. Thanks, Amanda. Thanks once again to Amanda for coming on to the podcast and sharing some strategies and tips to become a more thoughtful and better traveler. You will find links to Amanda's podcast and website in the episode show notes on my website, tracy's travels in time.comforward/episoone. Do join us for the next episode of the Global Travel Planning Podcast where we will be focusing on New Zealand. Until then, happy global travel planning.