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Global Travel Planning
Exploring the World with Your Dog: Expert Tips from Shandos Cleaver
In episode 44 of the Global Travel Planning Podcast, Tracy is joined by Shandos Cleaver, an expert on dog-friendly travel and author of "Off the Leash in Australia." Together, they explore the world of travelling with dogs, focusing on Shandos' own experiences with her miniature dachshund, Schnitzel, across 36 countries.
Offering practical tips and anecdotes, the episode covers everything from navigating the complexities of international pet travel to the cultural acceptance of dogs in various countries. Shandos shares her journey into dog-friendly travel and Schnitzel’s adaptation to different modes of transportation, from planes and trains to ferries.
The episode dives into the comparative analysis of dog-friendliness in Australia, the United States, and Europe, with insights into accommodation, dining, and transportation. Shandos dispenses crucial advice for fellow pet owners contemplating similar adventures, highlighting the importance of planning and adaptability.
There’s plenty to learn about the joys and challenges of exploring the world with a four-legged friend, making this a must-listen for dog-loving travellers.
⭐️ Guest - Shandos Cleaver (Travelnuity: Dog-Friendly Travel)
📝 Show Notes - Episode 44
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Welcome to episode 44 of the Global Travel Planning Podcast. In this episode, I chat with Shandos Klever, author of Off the Leash in Australia, who shares her experiences and top tips for traveling with your dog. Shandos has explored over 36 countries with her miniature dachshund Schnitzel and provides invaluable advice for planning dog-friendly adventures, whether in Australia or abroad. Hi and welcome to the Global Travel Planning Podcast, or abroad. Hi and welcome to the Global Travel Planning Podcast. I'm your host, tracy Collins, who, with my expert guests, will take you on a weekly journey to destinations around the globe, providing travel inspiration, itinerary ideas, practical tips and more to help you plan your. Welcome to episode 44 of the podcast.
Speaker 1:Today, I'm joined by Shandos Cleaver, author of Off the Leash in Australia and an expert in dog-friendly travel. Shandos has travelled with her miniature dachshund Schnitzel to over 36 countries across three continents and in this episode, she shares her insights on making travel with your pup smooth and enjoyable. We start by hearing about Shandos's background and her journey into dog-friendly travel, before diving into her adventures with Schnitzel, from planes and trains to road trips and even a ferry ride from Stockholm to Helsinki. Shandos also shares practical tips for those planning to travel with their dogs, whether you're exploring Australia or heading overseas. We wrap up the episode with Shandos' must-know tip for traveling with your furry friend. So if you've ever thought about taking your dog on an adventure, you won't want to miss this episode. So let's dive in.
Speaker 2:I'm Shandos Cleaver and I live in Sydney, australia. I run a travel blog called Travel Nuity, which, as of this year, it's going to be 10 years old. It's hard to believe that I've been running it that long, and ever since the end of 2017, I've been focused on dog-friendly travel, and most recently last year, I published my first book, called Off the Leash in Australia, which is a dog-friendly travel guide to Australia, and the star of both my blog and my book is my little miniature Dachshund Schnitzel.
Speaker 1:So tell us a little bit about Schnitzel Shandos, because I've just been chatting to you before we start recording, because I used to have a little miniature Dachshund called Sally, who of course she didn't get to travel as much as Schnitzel has. So how old is Schnitzel? I know he's not a miniature Dachau does he is a he is a miniature. I was miniature as well, oh cool.
Speaker 2:So tell us a little bit about Schnitzel so Schnitzel, he is now 12 years old and he has slowed down a lot, but he has done a lot during his years. When we got him and for the first couple years that we had him, we actually never traveled with him, except for taking him to my parents and sometimes having like nights away down there down the coast. So he was used to going into a car and he got really excited when he knew that we were going somewhere and he would like bark and bark until he got into the car or run up and down the hallway. But it wasn't. We didn't start traveling with him until I had started my travel blog and I had some early success and we thought we want to go traveling overseas, but we have a dog.
Speaker 2:And then we just thought well, why don't we give it a try, go over to Europe for a couple of years? And at this point we'd sold our house to help fund our traveling and we thought why don't we take Schnitzel overseas and we'll see how he goes? And at that point we didn't even know if he would handle travel. He had only once ever stayed in a hotel, so we just didn't know how it would go. But he actually really enjoys traveling and as long as he's with us and he's got his bed, he just yeah, he's traveled really well and so in the years since, he's visited 36 countries, nearly all in Europe, but he's also been to the US. He's been to 10 states in the US and in Australia he's been to every state and territory except for Tasmania. In 2021, we spent six months traveling in Australia in a camper van, and a lot of that on the basis of my book Off the Leash.
Speaker 1:That's absolutely fantastic. He must be the most well traveled dog in the world. He has to be.
Speaker 2:It's amazing he is one of them, like I've come across some other dogs more recently who travel quite a bit, but then it's, yeah, it's sometimes hard to compare. It's like do you count countries? Do you count the amount of time? Do you start counting this and that?
Speaker 1:It's still incredible though. So you've traveled to basically three continents Australia, europe and the US. So let's talk about traveling with Schnitzel and each of those different countries to start off. I think that's a good starting point, so let's compare. You know how dog friendly is Australia and Europe and the US, and I know with Europe we've got lots of countries we could potentially talk about, so so how dog friendly would you kind of rate each of those different places?
Speaker 2:So Australia, like my home country unfortunately it's not the most dog friendly place, but I do believe it is improving. There's a lot more hotels are dog friendly, particularly luxury hotels great for a staycation, uh. The other thing is uh, there's a lot of dog friendly caravan parks. When we travel around Australia, I would say that about three quarters of caravan parks are dog friendly, though that is generally if you stay in your own caravan, camper van or tent not always for pet friendly cabins, um, so having your own camper van, like we did when we travel around Australia, or your own caravan makes it a lot easier. Particularly, there's some of the remote places where there's no options to stay in dog friendly hotels or cabins. There's a lot of dog friendly cafes, and the great thing about Australia is that the weather is generally quite good, so it's quite good for sitting outside and dining outside in beer gardens, or else there's ones with heaters, because, like we're all wimps here in Australia when it comes to the cold.
Speaker 2:But the other thing I'll say that is really dog-friendly in Australia is the number of beaches. Now, you wouldn't believe this if you lived in Sydney, which is where I live at the moment, because there's not many dog-friendly beaches, but outside of the cities and in some of the other cities in Australia, like, there are so many beautiful dog-friendly beaches, there's just so many to go around. Though the other thing is then the hardest thing about dog travel when it comes to Australia is actually getting a dog into the country. So unless you're already here or you're relocating like, it's not really worthwhile going through all the hoops, all the vet visits, the quarantine and so on, and it's a very expensive process, which I can attest to because I went for it once with Schnitzel. Yes, it certainly is.
Speaker 2:So that's Australia, and then I find the US is kind of like an intermediate, like people don't view it as dog-friendly as Europe, but I would say it's generally more dog-friendly than Australia, but it depends also where you are in the country. One of the things I really liked about the US, in comparison to Australia, is that dogs are allowed in national parks there, though there are restrictions, but at least like if you're going to lookouts, if you're driving through in a car, like that's all fine, whereas generally in Australia dogs aren't even allowed at all in national parks unless you're driving through on a highway. The one funny thing that I didn't really come across in the US but I heard reports of is there's, depending on the state or the county that you're in, dogs may or may not be allowed on what they call patios, the outdoor dining areas, which, yeah, that was something that I found unusual. And then the first place that we travelled with Schnitzel was Europe, and part of the reason we chose that is because it has a reputation as being very dog-friendly, though there are differences between different parts of Europe.
Speaker 2:For instance, we started in Spain, and Spain is generally not the most dog-friendly place. There's some places we found cafes and restaurants that would allow dogs inside. In other places not so many, whereas then we found probably one of the most dog-friendly places is Italy, where dogs were just allowed in so many places. There are even some supermarkets that allow dogs inside. We actually got told off at one supermarket because we were carrying schnitzel and we were told no, he had to be on the ground. I guess they made sure that they didn't have anything that dogs could eat at ground level. Yeah, that's smart.
Speaker 2:The other thing that helps in Italy is that they're not always strict about following rules, which helps when it comes to rules regarding dogs. A lot of people think that actually France would be more dog-friendly, but I think the difference I found with France is that dogs aren't allowed in a lot of parks, whereas that wasn't really the case, I found, in Italy, though the other thing to watch out for in Italy is Naples, which I really enjoyed as a city, but you've got to watch where you walk. But you've got to watch where you walk. That, I found, is to be one of the most, yeah, places where people don't pick up after the dogs as much. And I guess the other thing is the United Kingdom, like whether or not that's dog friendly, and there's a lot of people I met in the UK who were like, oh no, it's not that dog-friendly. It's nowhere near as dog-friendly as Europe, but I don't know.
Speaker 2:I found it really dog-friendly and, yeah, it was easy to find out information about whether places did or didn't allow dogs. It's usually clearly there on the website. There's a lot of cafes and stuff like that where they'll have a sign in the window, shops with a sign in the window. And on my most recent visit to the UK, I discovered that there's quite a few churches and cathedrals in England that allow dogs inside of, which is not something I've really found in other places. I remember going into the cathedral in Bristol and I said so when did you start allowing dogs? And they're like oh well, we've kind of always allowed it. We've just never said no or never really publicised it.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's amazing, I have to say. I think the UK uk is, it seems to me to be incredibly dog friendly. Um, everywhere I go, like I was telling you yesterday, I was staying at a beautiful hotel at the weekend and um was down at breakfast yesterday morning at the table next to us. They had, they had their dog with them at breakfast, which is it was lovely to see, and he was, he was such a friendly little dog, um. So, you see, definitely see more of that in the last few years, I would say in the UK. It's definitely uh, I think a lot of people got dogs over the pandemic. It seemed to be a thing and and so there was a huge kind of reaction to making things far easier for people with dogs.
Speaker 2:I think it's been the similar in Australia that there's just a lot more dogs and it was really during the pandemic that a lot more of the hotels became dog friendly because they didn't have the business travelers and also a lot of the international travelers were like, well, what can we do to have people stay here? So then they started allowing dogs and then they charged the fees as well, usually, yeah, and then put on like the special dog dining menus sometimes and the dog grooming, and really it's.
Speaker 1:It's definitely a great way to have a staycation, so definitely a bit of pampering as well, fishing it so so. So tell us about if you're planning to travel with your dog and you listen at the minute and I'm sure listeners kind of go. I love that idea, but I'm not quite sure what sort of things I need to do in terms of preparing kind of legally. Do I need to look at injections? Do I need to look at you know paperwork?
Speaker 2:but also preparing you know schnitzel for travel well, probably one thing to do is to start with a simple trip, like close to home, either staying somewhere close by, or a road trip where you can just see how your dog handles it and just see, because there's some dogs who just don't handle traveling in cars and stuff like that and the last thing you want to find out is you're starting on like a camper van trip around Australia and you just say, oh, my dog really gets car sick and it's not going away. So start simple and see how you go. The other thing is like think about your dog's behavior. So before we went to Europe, we did see a dog trainer because we knew that Schnitzel wasn't the best behaved all the time. He can get away with a lot because he's very small. So, like we can always like pick him up and move him. We're never at a risk of him like stealing food off the table at a cafe because he's just too small, but he isn't always the best behaved at cafes. So we spoke to a dog trainer, we had a couple of sessions and tried to learn some tricks, which I must admit that I think we didn't really learn it that well. It's just as much about the owners learning the training as the dogs. So when we were traveling around Europe, I had a tendency to have him sitting on my lap underneath the table and I learned to eat one-handed so that I could keep him in there.
Speaker 2:And of course, the other thing is depending on where you go, you may have other things to prepare. So the biggest thing is, if you're traveling internationally, obviously if you are thinking about going somewhere overseas, the first thing is to consider what are the requirements for a dog, because different countries have different requirements. The most common thing is that the dog needs to have a microchip and also to have a rabies vaccination and sometimes a health certificate. So, for example, dogs going to places in the European Union, they require that. So when Schnitzel, he flew to Spain, leaving Australia, so he went to a vet and got a rabies and then he had the health certificate when he was leaving.
Speaker 2:On the other hand, there are places where, if you go and investigate the requirements, you might be like, oh, maybe I shouldn't take my dog there. So, for instance, australia is a really hard country to fly to with a dog, as Johnny Depp discovered when his dog was deported. Well, that, or the threat of they, were going to get put down. But yeah, australia dogs need to go through a lot of processes and there's quarantine involved. It's similar for places like New Zealand. There's a lot of extra rules for Hawaii and other islands that are generally rabies free. So always double check everything that's required and, if possible, look at the government websites, uh, which have the full information. Don't just listen to someone on tiktok. That's a good one good advice.
Speaker 1:So you did all that preparation with schnitzel. You got all the paperwork and everything. So you your first kind of uh with Schnitzel was then from Australia to Spain. So how did he travel on the airplane?
Speaker 2:So that one. We organized that with a pet transport company because we had no idea what we were doing, and I even think back to I can't even remember when I worked out some of the steps involved because I was clueless. But I went to a pet transport company and they were the ones who organized the flight, partly because at that point he had he could only fly in cargo leaving Australia. So he had a long flight with Qantas, first of all to Dubai and then he flew Emirates to Madrid. So he had a very long process, which is there's a lot of people who are reluctant to put their pets in cargo flights, but when you're flying to and from Australia, it's generally the only option. So we were worried, but he handled it really well and is very happy to see us. On the other end, when we got reunited here he was just jumping all over the place. So then we remember to take him out and he did the longest pee I've ever seen him do.
Speaker 2:I don't know how long, I think he'd been. Well, actually, when he was in Dubai he got taken to the canal next to the airport. So we spent all our money on his flight and him being looked after and then, like, we just slept on some lounges in the airport and slumbered because we couldn't afford to pay for a hotel for ourselves. But he's done. So he's done a couple of flights in cargo the same way.
Speaker 2:He came back to Australia, but the rest of the time we're actually really lucky we had no idea of this beforehand that he's small enough to fly in the cabin. So when we've flown around Europe, when he flew to the US and an extra flight in the US, each of those times he flew in the cabin with us at our feet. So usually that applies to smaller dogs, often a maximum of eight kilos, including their carrier, and they need to be then in their carrier bag at your feet and it's a lot easier to keep an eye on them and you don't have to worry about, like, what happens if, like, there's a delayed flight, or then you know they're there with you.
Speaker 1:That's good. You know. I was going to say I remember a flight from South Africa this is probably 30 something years ago a long haul flight South Africa. So it was Johannesburg to Athens and there was a little dog on that flight. I remember and this is a long, long time ago and it's something you see far more regularly now that you see the little dogs on the on the flights with you, which is, I think, I would prefer that, I just would like to know that my dog's with me and I know you can't do it on some when you go to some places, but I'm sure schnitzel's happy to sit on the plane. Does he cope with that, does he? Is he okay on the flight?
Speaker 2:he handles it really well, like generally on the flight, like he doesn't make a um. I have learned that I shouldn't open the zip too much, otherwise he tries to poke his nose out and then get his entire head out. One of the only times he made noise was because some sometimes people clap when a flight lands, like I'm not sure why they do that, and he doesn't like clapping. So then he started barking and then you get people looking around oh there's a dog. Because they hadn't even realized there was a dog. Uh, I will also say that the flight that we took from so we flew from Paris to New York. You have never experienced being cramped on a long-haul flight until you're flown with a dog at your feet. So it was a budget airline flight, completely packed and having Schnitzel take out my entire leg room and I'm a tall person, yeah, that was, yeah, the most crap type ever being on a flight, but I did it for schnitzel oh, and I'm sure you appreciated it.
Speaker 1:So tell me a little bit about your travel in we've talked a little bit about. Obviously, you've taken flights, so when you've traveled around australia you've had the camper van. What about in europe and the US? So how many types of different transportation has Mitchell experienced?
Speaker 2:He's been on about everything possible In Europe. One of our favourite ways to travel around was train, just because, for the same reason, everyone likes to take the trains. They go right into the city centre and like, they're pretty reliable, and most of the trains in Europe do allow dogs on, particularly small dogs. There are a few trains, like in Spain, that don't allow large dogs. We also did a couple of trains when we were in the US, taking the Amtrak train from New York down to Washington DC.
Speaker 2:But we've also done a lot of driving, particularly when we were traveling around the west coast of the US that was mainly driving and also some parts of Europe, particularly when we wanted to visit some out-of-the-way places. But then he's also been on buses. He's been on ferries, been on ferries, including overnight ferries. We took a ferry in between Stockholm and Helsinki and we had that last one and we had a pet friendly cabin that he was allowed inside and he was allowed up on the upper deck on that one, which that was really nice. Um, and what else have we had?
Speaker 1:um about everything possible. I think trains are amazing. We did a I was just talking about that. We did a train trip from Krakow to Budapest just before Christmas and the couple that was sitting opposite us they had their dog with them as well and actually getting on and off that train constantly, people getting on and off with the dogs Well, they had the couple opposite us with their dog. And then we had another couple who sat on the next set of and they came out with quite a, quite a big dog, but he just sat so comfortably in between the the two rows of seats, like a v-shape, and he just sat there quite comfortably, quite happy, just watching everybody.
Speaker 2:It was really cool yeah, schnitzel, he's really enjoyed train rides like I don't know if they still have them in europe, like there's those old-fashioned ones with the compartments and there's one that we talked that was about a whole day, and then, like he ended up getting passed around between us and the other people, like sitting on everyone's laps, and he, yeah, he's pretty well behaved. There was one time that we caught the train from. We caught it from Bratislava up to Berlin, and we're a little bit concerned with that, but we knew that it would be stopping for a while in Prague, so we thought we let him off and have a break when we're in Prague, but of course then the train was running late, and so that's when we discovered that he could hold on for eight hours if he really needed to oh, I was going to ask.
Speaker 1:The next question is, I guess, in terms of that, what sort of what sort of equipment, what sort of things do you need to take for schnitzel, because does he have his own little suitcase?
Speaker 2:well, we had it we've got a bag for him and the other thing is, if he's not actually in his carrier bag, would use that for extra storage for his stuff. Um, but the main things would take would be fairly simple things like his food, a water bowl, a food bowl, his bed, like have to take his bed. Like even if hotels supply their own beds, I kind of like to take my own, just because he knows it, and sometimes some of the beds are designed for bigger dogs than him. But then we kind of kept it pretty simple because, like, we didn't want to get loaded down with too much luggage, because we're carrying his luggage and our luggage and carrying him and dealing, dealing with trains and buses. Yes, it's a bit of a handful.
Speaker 1:I would say the more you have, the more stressful it is, but it's, I guess schnitzel is like when you, when you travel with children, you've got those, you've got to watch the child, you have to watch schnitzel, you've got to watch all the luggage as well that you've got to carry because they can't carry it for themselves. So it adds that little element. So I know it would be just you, I'm sure. Take less things for yourself, because you obviously had.
Speaker 2:You had schnitzel and the things for him and backpacks are really handy for when, yes, you've got a hand taken up looking after a dog, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about your most memorable experiences. So, I guess, the most memorable experiences for yourself, but also for Schnitzel. So what are the things that you look back on and go oh, that was just priceless, that was fantastic.
Speaker 2:One of our favorite memories is we did a road trip around Scandinavia, so we hired a car for about a month and we went up through Sweden and then back down from Norway. It's just some stunning scenery In Norway, in particular, if we realize that, ignore what Google Maps says and follow the scenic routes instead, and there's just some beautiful ones which we could just do with Schnitzel. So probably, yeah, some of the beautiful places that we've been and he's just some beautiful ones which we could just do with schnitzel. So probably, yeah, some of the beautiful places that we've been and he's been allowed have been some of our favourite memories. Things like when we went to the Grand Canyon in the US and dogs allowed along the Rim Trail and the various lookouts along there. So we didn't go and hike down into the canyon because dogs aren't allowed down there, but we just like, took in so much and stayed for the sunset and it's just such a magical experience so what about the funniest thing that's ever happened to you when you've been traveling with schnitzel?
Speaker 2:uh, it depends on whether you want something that's amusing or something that was more dramatic. We have to share both those Shandos. I remember when we were in Venice, we were walking around and someone stopped us and tried to ask us, in Italian, the directions for somewhere and we realised that no, like, no, they were Australian and they thought that we were locals because we had a dog and like that's, you just get into like conversations with people and like get chatting for ages because you just connect because of a dog.
Speaker 2:yeah, that's so true on the other hand, uh, when we're in Santorini, uh, as you do, we're were trying to watch the sunset from I think, there's that popular sunset spot.
Speaker 2:So we were at a bar having some drinks in the afternoon and then we had to leave it because you had to have a booking and spend a fortune to stay there. So we were looking for somewhere else to view the sunset and then we just heard like a meow and a cat charged around the corner at Schnitzel, and it was a semi-stray cat that had a kitten nearby which we had no idea, and it was used to defending itself against the local stray dogs. So it charged at schnitzel and joel. My husband picked schnitzel up by his leash and, uh, ended up getting scratches on his leg and then there was like one little scratch on schnitzel's ear. So I will say, uh, it didn't end up being that big a drama. Um, we found the names of the vets and we found one that was near a hotel and we went to the vet and it was still open and didn't even charge us that much, but the only thing was and we missed out on seeing the sunset- on Santorini.
Speaker 2:We were there at the vet instead, and it was having like this little patchy stuff put on his ear.
Speaker 1:Oh bless, that actually needs a bit of a good question, that about insurance. So can you get, if you've got dog insurance, pet insurance? Does that cover you when you're overseas?
Speaker 2:It depends on where you're from and the rules with the insurance. There's some of the insurance policies in the UK and the US will cover you, but there's only some of them. Most of them don't and you need to check the conditions Like they may say that it only covers you up to a certain amount of period, I think for the Australian pet insurance, like Australian pets don't usually travel overseas, so, yeah, there isn't anything that will cover you.
Speaker 1:So instead, yeah, so, add a little bit extra into your budget. Yes, yeah, yeah, that's a good idea. So so tell us what. What has been the best thing about traveling with schnitzel?
Speaker 2:uh, I think just when you're traveling for dog, it encourages you to really like slow down and appreciate things like the. It does mean that there's some things that you can't do. If you aren't that fond of visiting museums, having a dog traveling with you is a great excuse to get out of going to all those must-see museums and skipping the queues entirely. Um, but yeah, it's just with a dog, often it's just good to just wander around and just take in the ambience and just take things slowly and just see what comes up and like. The other thing is like we do end up talking a lot more to people when we're traveling with Schnitzel than when we travel without him, and just people asking stuff aboutnitzel than when we travel without him, and just people asking stuff about schnitzel even if you don't speak the same language so I'm going to put you on the spot here now, shanna.
Speaker 1:So schnitzel's traveled to 30 plus countries. So if you could travel to one country outside of australia, so we'll leave aust, leave Australia, because that's his home country. If you could travel back to one country from all of those with schnitzel, where would you choose?
Speaker 2:That's a really hard question. I don't know. I would really like to go back and spend some time in France, but then, like, actually one of the surprising countries that we really enjoyed Rishnitzel was Slovenia. In the Balkans it was just. It was really dog-friendly, it was just a really enjoyable country to travel in and spend time. We'd love to spend some more time there, but the only thing is it's not that big a country, so if I can only go to one, maybe I should go to one of the bigger countries.
Speaker 1:I was going to say and if I asked Schnitzel the same question, what would he say Now?
Speaker 2:Schnitzel probably would give the same answer as your typical two-year-old and has no idea that there's even different countries, and probably would give the same answer as your typical two-year-old and has no idea that there's even different countries, and he has no idea that he's traveled to all these different places. Like I don't know whether the grass smells different in some places, like he was really fond of, like rolling, like some of the really lush grass that we came across in europe, but uh, no, he he has no idea.
Speaker 1:He'll just be happy to be with you when he travels, I'm sure. Oh, yes, now I always end the podcast with the same question, um, so, and there might be quite a lot of answers to this question, so I'm going to ask you kind of the number one, uh thing that you'd recommend for somebody traveling for the first time with a dog.
Speaker 2:Um, but if you want, you could add a few more in there before you kind of hit the top number one, because there might be a few things you want to recommend well, actually, if I was going to stick to just one thing, um, probably the one thing I recommend is just there's a lot of people, if they haven't traveled with a dog before, they think, oh, this isn't going to work out, this is going to be too restrictive, like, in particular, people who are thinking about doing a big lap around Australia.
Speaker 2:They're like, oh well, if I got a dog, then I can't go to national parks or do this or that. But the thing is, like most people I know who then have traveled with a dog, they're like I really enjoy this. I really like I'm glad that I took my dog along. We made things work. It was just so great having my dog with me. Like, after all, they're part of the family, and so probably the number one thing I'd say is just go ahead and do it. Like don't talk yourself out of it, like you're gonna have a great time brilliant.
Speaker 1:Oh, thanks so much, sanders, for for chatting to us on. This week's episode of the podcast has been. I know this will be a very popular episode we've got. There's so many dog lovers out there who want to travel with the dog. They're just not 100 sure about taking that leap. So I think it's. It's great to find out from somebody who has done that and from Snitchell, who's done so much travels himself and obviously enjoyed it. That's amazing. So thanks so much for joining us this week. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Global Travel Planet podcast. For more details and links to everything we discussed today, check out the show notes at globaltravelplanetcom. Remember, if you enjoyed the show, please consider leaving us a review on your favorite podcast app, because your feedback helps us reach more travel enthusiasts just like you. Anyway, that leaves me to say, as always, happy global travel planning. Thank you.