Epic Africa Adventure (Part 2): Namibia, Botswana + Zimbabwe

Tanya returns to share part two of her incredible African adventure, taking us through Namibia, Botswana, and Zimbabwe with thrilling stories of desert landscapes, wildlife encounters, and natural wonders.

• Flying from Cape Town to Walvis Bay to begin the Namibian adventure
• Exploring German-influenced Swakopmund and taking a Sandwich Harbour tour where sand dunes meet the ocean
• Joining an overland safari with Nomad Africa through Namibia's stunning landscapes
• Encountering traditional Herero women and Himba people while travelling through northern Namibia
• Witnessing extraordinary wildlife at Etosha National Park's waterholes, including midnight elephant and rhino sightings
• Taking a scenic flight over Botswana's Okavango Delta before camping in the wilderness
• Experiencing the thrill and vulnerability of mokoro (dugout canoe) rides with hippos and buffalo nearby
• Finally spotting the elusive leopard during the last safari in Chobe National Park
• Viewing the magnificent Victoria Falls from both Zimbabwe and Zambia sides
• Taking a helicopter flight over Victoria Falls for a breathtaking aerial perspective
• Sampling local cuisine, including the adventurous mopane worm

⭐️ Guest - Tanya Munro
📝  Show Notes - Episode 71

🎧 Listen to next

• Episode #70 - Epic Africa Adventure Part 1 - South Africa
• Episode #52 – Travel Safe Travel Smart: Real Tips for Every Type of Traveller
• UKTP Episode #82 – Trip Report with Tanya Munro [Insider Tips, Memorable Moments, and Unexpected Discoveries]

Chapters

• 0:00 Tanya's African Adventure Continues
• 8:45 Namibia: Swakopmund and Desert Experiences
• 17:35 Joining the Overland Safari
• 25:33 Botswana: The Okavango Delta
• 35:12 Mokoro Rides and Wildlife Encounters
• 42:43 Zimbabwe: Victoria Falls Experience
• 49:25 Reflections and Travel Tips

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

In this week's episode, tanya returns to continue her incredible Africa trip report, this time through Namibia, botswana and Zimbabwe. From desert drives and river cruises to wildlife encounters and Victoria Falls, this episode is packed with stories from the road and unforgettable moments. Hi and welcome to the Global Travel Planning Podcast. I'm your host, tracey Collins, who, with my expert guests, will take you on a weekly journey to destinations around the globe, providing travel inspiration, itinerary ideas, practical tips and more to help you plan your next travel adventure. Hi and welcome to this week's episode of the Global Travel Planet podcast with me, tracey Collins. If you caught episode 70, you'll have heard Tanya share the first part of her amazing Africa trip, focusing on her time in South Africa. Now, today, in part two, we pick up where we left off and head deeper into her journey across Namibia, botswana and Zimbabwe.

Speaker 1: 1:05

Botswana and Zimbabwe From the dramatic desert scenery of Namibia to wildlife spotting and river cruises in Botswana, and ending with a bucket list visit to Victoria Falls in Zimbabwe. Tanya shares her experiences, reflections and what she learned along the way. If you've ever dreamt of planning a multi-country adventure through this part of the world, you'll find plenty of inspiration in this episode. Okay, so now we are back for part two of Tanya's Africa adventure. So hi, tanya, glad to speak to you again Now. If anybody's tuning in and they missed last week, you need to go back and listen to Tanya's talk about the first part of African trip. But can you quickly introduce yourself, tanya, and give us a quick overview of your entire Africa trip? Sure, so, yep, I'm Tanya. I give us a quick overview of your entire Africa trip, sure.

Speaker 2: 1:46

So, yep, I'm Tanya, I'm married to John and we love to travel. We're empty nesters, except for our pampered pooch. Africa was top of my bucket list and we finally made it third time, lucky, and it totally surpassed all expectations. We went to South Africa for the first two weeks of our four-and-a-half-week trip. So we went to South Africa for the first two weeks of our four and a half week trip. So we went to Johannesburg, kruger National Park, the Garden Route and Cape Town, and we followed that with Namibia, botswana and Victoria Falls, which we saw from both sides Zimbabwe and Zambia. So it's that last bit of the trip that I'm going to talk about in this podcast. But, yes, listen to last week's to hear all about the amazing South Africa. So I did travel with John. Um, yeah, and this second part of the trip, um, apart from a few days at the start and the end of this section, we did an overland safari with Nomad Africa.

Speaker 1: 2:37

So it was an overland safari truck well, I'm really excited in this episode to chat about um Namibia in particular, because I've actually lived in Botswana and I have been to Zimbabwe, but I have not been to Namibia, so I was so excited when I was following along. So let's talk about the Namibian part of your trip. So you were in Cape Town, so how did you get to Namibia to start with?

Speaker 2: 2:59

Yeah, well, this is kind of interesting because we decided we were going to do an overland safari and often those overland safaris go from Cape Town sort of all the way up across and finally finishing at Victoria Falls. But when I looked through Namibia, namibia is one of the least populated countries in the world, so there's an awful lot of desert and it looks like there's some fabulous things to do in that southern part of Namibia. But we just felt that maybe the few thousand kilometres we just weren't up for that in an overland safari track. So in saying that, I think we did miss some great bits of Namibia and we made the decision probably to do a bit more in South Africa and miss a bit of Namibia. So if you absolutely want to see all of Namibia, you probably need to start earlier than what we did. So we flew from Cape Town to Walvis Bay and that was a great fly and we're pleased we did it that way because we had some great experiences in South Africa that we wouldn't have if we'd, you know, done this.

Speaker 2: 4:01

So we flew to Walvis Bay. That was quite interesting in itself. You're flying over all this desert and the airport in walvis bay is an international airport, but it's kind of like in the middle of the desert and it's quite small, and so that that was just sort of interesting in itself. And when we got there to walvis bay, um it was quite, uh, quite hot actually too. So, um, that was sort of surprising for us. So we went there. From there we actually had a transfer and went and stayed at Swakopmund, which is not very far away I think maybe half an hour or so. So we stayed in Swakopmund for two or three nights and Swakopmund was really it's a super interesting place and a very nice place to stay too. It's got a lot of German architecture, yeah too.

Speaker 1: 4:48

It's um got a lot of german architecture. Yeah, oh no. And you, you flew up from cape town into yeah and then you said you had those few days um, and was that part of the tour, or did you stay in swakopmund and then pick up the tour?

Speaker 2: 4:58

no, yeah, so it wasn't part of our tour. Interestingly, though, we ended up with staying at the same place as our tour group were at, and they arrived on the same almost exactly the same place as our tour group were at, and they arrived almost exactly at the same time. So we arrived at this place and, look, we were using a local travel agent actually, which she's fabulous. The company was Adita Africa, it was called, and the woman's name was Eleanor. So if you're trying to book something anywhere in Africa, I'd highly recommend them. They were very helpful, she was fabulous. So she booked us into the same sort of guest lodge I think it was guest house as the tour group, so we pulled up the same time as then. So we actually met them that first day, but I think it was another two days until we joined the tour, but we were able to have dinner with them that night, which was really kind of good, because it's a little bit nervous, sort of nerve-wracking, joining a tour group that have already been together for eight days, anyway, so we did have dinner with them that first night, but other than that, we saw Swakopmund on our own.

Speaker 2: 5:59

So what we did? We had a look around the town. So you're highly influenced by German architecture. So it's a very nice town with sort of lots of coffee shops and gift shops and all that sort of thing, and it's on the Atlantic Ocean and it's just stunning like it was just this big crashing ocean, and so it was a really beautiful beach front with a big long pier out front. So, yeah, so we explored around the town that first day we were there and then the next day we, um did a sandwich harbour tour, um, so sandwich harbour is just a little bit out of town because, yes, swakopmund's right on the edge of the desert, so sandwich harbour is actually where, um, the like, the sand dunes actually meet the sea.

Speaker 2: 6:40

So we did a four-wheel drive safari and that was that was heaps of fun. Um, just up and down through the sand dunes, um, yeah, lots and lots of fun. We had picnic lunch on the beach. Um, yeah, really just had fun doing that and, I think, seeing that sort of real desert landscape too, because we missed a lot of the desert, it sort of gave us that sort of bit of a desert experience, um, so that was good. Um, as part of that day trip too, we went to a seal colony which was fairly close by to Sandwich Harbour, at Pelican Point, and we got up really close with the seals, like you know, we could have touched them if we wanted to, so that was fun, and they've got some salt mining there, so we got to see that and flamingos, and so that was good, so we enjoyed that.

Speaker 2: 7:25

Um, and back in swakopmund that night, this jetty that I was talking about actually has a restaurant right at the very end of it and, um, we love that because it was, um, it's quite an old, dilapidated looking jetty, so we had to walk out quite a long way with this, you know getting dark and crashing waves all around, and up the middle of the jetty too is open, so that this restaurant, your glass all around, and we're there. Actually, we got there before sunset, so we're sitting in this glass restaurant, sort of felt like in the middle of the ocean with the sun setting, and so that was. That was very nice. I'd recommend that yeah, that's.

Speaker 1: 7:57

I'm putting that in my itinerary when I go. That sounds really good. I just won't make sure I don't have too much wine, though. If the jetty's open in the middle, I don't do that.

Speaker 2: 8:04

Because when you're walking back it is dark and it's not well lit Like our jetty you know, I've got a jetty here that I go down every day just about and so it was quite dark and, you know, depending on the tide, the waves would sometimes sort of crash up through the middle of it. But yeah, that was really good and the food was excellent. Yeah, and look, by local standards apparently it was quite expensive, but by our standards it was quite reasonable price-wise.

Speaker 1: 8:31

And then you joined the tour. Then, a couple of days later, yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:35

So we joined the safari. Then it was that next morning, so, upright and early, joined the tour group on the truck and off we set and we got 50 metres literally around the corner and had a flat tyre group on the truck and off we set and we got 50 meters literally around the corner at flat tire, which is kind of I'm like oh well, okay, there's gonna be an interesting trip, because you know, it's not like super comfortable traveling a safari truck and I think you know if you really want high luxury travel or a bit of a princess, it's probably not for you. So, flat tyre, immediately around the corner. But yeah, it was probably quite. You know, we went to the shops and I hadn't tasted, oh, what is it? The chewy meat that South Africans have? Yeah, I hadn't tasted biltong.

Speaker 2: 9:18

So I'd been in South Africa for what two, two and a half weeks had not had biltong in South Africa? For what two, two and a half weeks had not had biltong. And I'd said to John, oh, I haven't had biltong. And so because the truck broke down, like right there, right near a supermarket, I was able, went to the supermarket, went and bought some biltong and I actually love biltong and I can't believe I've been here for over two weeks I haven't had any of this.

Speaker 1: 9:41

So so that was quite good that it broke down so I could get my bill tong well, that's good that you tried it, and I can actually tell you where you can buy it, close to where we live as well, if you're wanting to buy some now that you're back in Australia, by the way, I actually got a place less than a kilometer down the road from here, but I've never, ever had it, so now I'll have to go there.

Speaker 2: 10:00

You reminded me, though, so I will have to.

Speaker 1: 10:03

So talk about what. Talk about this trail that you did around namibia. Where did you go? What was involved? How many people were in the group? Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 10:10

So yeah, it was with a company that does lots of travel around africa nomads. So yeah, if you're looking to do an overland safari, that would be a good company to check out because they go all sorts of places. And what I liked about this particular company is that like the full trip really was from Cape Town, like I said, up to Victoria Falls, but you could sort of join in and leave at various parts. So a couple of other people did do that at different points along the way, but, um, we went. It was, uh, what did we have? For the most part we had a group of 19. So you have a group of 19, you have a um, a guide who is also the cook, um, guide and and cook, and you have a driver, and so it's like a big truck, like a bus come truck sort of four-wheel drive. It's got big glass windows so you can sort of see out of it, and it's got lockers down the back. So you know, when you're considering luggage, you've got to take like long duffel bags that fit in the locker, um, which I think some people sort of struggle with that when you're at the planning stages of that trip. Um, yeah, so that, and it's not yet I say not air-conditioned, no toilets on board. Um, the bushy bushy is a thing, um, so I hadn't done a bushy bushy for about 30 years, but you know, eventually everyone has to. So that's the Sapporo truck Going through Namibia.

Speaker 2: 11:31

Like I said, it's not a super populated country, so there's lots of space between locations. The roads were very good in Namibia, though, so we left Swakopmund and we went up through sort of up the highways and things, up the Skeleton Coast, which is along, you know, the Atlantic Ocean, so very nice. There were some salt plains along there too. We stopped shipwreck, so we went up there, and by only halfway through that day we got up to the Brandberg Mountains, which is a beautiful sort of mountain range sort of area. So we had lunch there, and that was our first experience, you know, lunch at the side of the truck. So Stanley, who's Epic, our guide, also our cook he's actually been a chef in a past life. So that was pretty lucky, because I was a bit not sure what to expect about food on this safari truck, and we were only on it for 12 days and most people were on it for 20, but a few people in the group actually then tacked a couple of other safari tricks on the end. So they're still going, actually. So some of them have gone up to Zanzibar and Tanzania, you know, gorogoro Crater, and some of them are even going further into Uganda. So you're kind of like, wow, 57 days on a safari truck, hats off.

Speaker 2: 12:44

And interestingly too, I found a lot of the people on the truck. So we're in our mid-50s, there are a lot of people older than us, there are a few younger, but we're probably in the younger demographic. So I think that was interesting, yeah, anyway, so, yeah, so we went to the Brandenburg Mountains Brandenburg Mountains, sorry. So we did a hike through there. It to the Brandenburg Mountains Brandenburg Mountains, sorry, so we did a hike through there. It was beautiful scenery. Very much reminded me of Central Australia if you go out around Uluru and that sort of way. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:13

So when we went in there, it was meant to be a 2.5, two-and-a-half-hour hike and it took four hours. And this is one of the things when you're travelling with a group, you know, like not everyone was as physically able as every, you know, and this is, you know. And the range of ages, I think, was from like 25 up to 74 and and within that. And you know, it wasn't the 74 year old who was slowest, I might add too, she was awesome and such an inspiration. But, um, yeah, so you've sort of got to. You know, that's probably one of the challenges of traveling with a group.

Speaker 2: 13:47

Um, yeah, so that took four hours and it was getting late in the day and you know, and this guide's like, um, you know, you know we need to try and hurry everyone along because you know leopards are in this area at night time and you didn't want a group of, you know, rambly people on foot, yeah, so anyway, we got there, but in there you sort of it's sort of between rocks. I mean, it's up and down but it wasn't incredibly steep. But the whole sort of main purpose of going in there is to see some rock paintings. So there's one called the White Lady, which is quite famous and it's been dated at at least 2,000 years old up to 4,000, somewhere around there. So it was done by the Sands people, you know, the original sort of Indigenous people to that area. So that was interesting to see.

Speaker 2: 14:34

Like I said, probably not unlike some of the stuff you might see in Australia, particularly if you go up the top end and see some of the sort of the art up there. Yeah, what else Do you want? A bit more about Namibia.

Speaker 1: 14:45

Yeah. So I mean, I guess, did you? I mean, did you get to meet the people? I've seen some of the pictures of how the traditional dress. Yeah, so that was what I was going to go into next.

Speaker 2: 14:56

So that was kind of interesting meeting some of the local sort of people. So there's the Herero women and they dress in the I'd never heard of them and they dress in these big colourful dresses, big hats, really big hats, and big skirts and dresses and things. Apparently they're introduced by the Germans and the missionaries that came into the area and they're very English looking, so, if you think, like English walking around the Cotswolds with your parasol. Almost they're like that sort of thing, except the colors are very vibrant and African. So that, and and this landscape, it's very dusty. You know, for the most part we're still in the desert. It's very dusty and you know, and the way they live is, um, you know, fairly primitive and saying but they've got these, you know, um, beautiful outfits, and so we actually went um, you know they had some markets like on the side of the road, so we actually went and did some shopping there and so got to talk to them and, you know, met their children. I've got some cute photos which I'll I'll send to you. Just, you know, with the kids and that sort of thing.

Speaker 2: 16:01

Probably there was a little bit of a language barrier, so yeah, so a lot of it was sort of non-verbal conversation. So there were the Himbu people there. Oh no, sorry, they were the Herero women. They were the Herero women but also the Himbu people. So they're a nomadic people to Namibia and they're still. They're very much trying to preserve their culture. When I say nomadic, apparently they move around every one to two years. So they set up like little villages, often on the sides of highways and roads and things, but they're kind of grass hut type structures.

Speaker 2: 16:34

Yeah, and I think with the government it's a bit of a balancing act because they're kind of very much about, you know, we need to have education for young people and all of that sort of stuff. So it's. I think there's this sort of struggle with um reserving the culture but also moving forward. And that was really interesting because they dress very traditionally, so like very scant clothing for the women, um, like they don't wear tops and they bottom half in cow hides and even on the heads they have like like horns, like cow hide, so and they put an orange paste all over their body. So that was that was interesting. And one of the other places we were at. I actually had a bit of an interaction with a few of the Himbu women and I bought a beaded bracelet off them and that sort of thing. So yeah, that was interesting.

Speaker 1: 17:17

I know it sounds good. Now, after this kind of the first part of Namibia, you went on to Etosha, so do you want to talk to us a little bit about what happened in Etosha?

Speaker 2: 17:26

Yeah, yeah, so that was an interesting national park to go to. We'd already been to Kruger, but Etosha was quite different, in as farid environment, a lot more desert-y, so yeah, and where we were staying, the actual accommodation there was a very big waterhole, like right there. So that was super cool actually. So we did a safari drive sort of through Atosha for a whole day. Interestingly, we didn't see any cats at all, which was kind of disappointing because by this time of our trip we had seen, you know, in South Africa, lots of giraffes and elephants and zebras and all of that.

Speaker 2: 18:08

But still the quantities of those animals that we saw in herds in Atosha was, you know, quite remarkable. We saw actually zebras that were on migration, so we saw kind of, you know, hundreds of zebras and looking like one herd joining another herd, so that was very cool to see. And so many springboks. We'd seen a lot of antelopes in South Africa, but not like masses and masses of springboks, but this is like hundreds of springboks. And then we actually saw them hopping along which must be why they're called springboks, which had never been to me before because they've got just a real hop.

Speaker 2: 18:44

They're like an antelope that moves like a kangaroo. So that was very cool and just their waterhole, like the waterhole sort of out in the desert where we were on safari, you know this, one day I just looked at it and I was like, oh, it just pinched me because you know, the zebras were over here and the impala were here and there were a couple of ostrich here and the spring box, and then over in the desert here come two elephants and you know they amble in and next minute they're playing around and squirting each other and having a bath you know, and they were just all there all together.

Speaker 2: 19:20

So it was so just one of those. Oh, this is awesome, so, yeah, that. So that was kind of like our safari trip in there. But then back to the actual accommodation, that waterhole, which you know, literally was, you know, a one minute walk out our door. You could sort of go there at any time of the day and night and you'd see something different at any time, and so that was really awesome.

Speaker 2: 19:38

Like one night we just went outside and actually we're in bed, and we went, oh, maybe we should go have a look at the waterhole.

Speaker 2: 19:45

It was half past 10 walk down the waterhole and here they were like just 12 elephants under the moonlight, a few babies, just so cool, just seeing there and just in the stillness, just watching it in the dark, and and then, you know, they stayed there for a while and then along came a couple of rhinos and they had a baby with them and a baby elephant had a bit of a go at the baby rhino, just this little, nothing too vicious but a bit of a, you know, made a few noises at each other and then the elephants sort of walked off and then the rhinos came in for their feed and I found that quite interesting, actually watching that waterhole across a few days that for the most part, the animals seem to do shifts.

Speaker 2: 20:25

Yeah, so that was. We really loved that. It was really quite special. And even just the giraffes we've got some great pictures. You know the way they drink because you know they spread their leg out and neck down and just then all these animals at night time, the reflection of them in the waterhole too. So we really loved it, yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:42

And you did share a photo and I'm not sure if it was from Namibia, where it was in the middle of the. It was like early in the morning and outside your door was a hippo. Oh yeah, that's in.

Speaker 2: 20:53

Zimbabwe actually. I'll tell you about that when we get to Zimbabwe, that was super interesting. That we get to Zimbabwe, that was super interesting, that looked amazing.

Speaker 1: 20:59

So then, how long were you? Did you go from Etosha over then to Botswana?

Speaker 2: 21:04

Oh, well, yeah, pretty much, except we did have, I think, one day just close to the border I think it was Divindu, which was on the Okavango River, so we stayed one night there. So that was again a really nice place to stay, with sort of little hut things on the edge of the river. The sunset there was, you know, fabulous and that that's one thing that's been a highlight of all the trip. Just the sunsets, like every single day of the week the sunset was spectacular, um, and the sunrises too when you saw them. So we did have an early morning sort of a breakfast boat safari up the okavango River before we went over to Botswana, and so that was so cool, you know, like hippopotamus, hippos in the water and that sort of thing, and sunrise, yeah. So that was very cool.

Speaker 1: 21:50

So can I ask what you went into on the river? Did you go into one of those little dugout things?

Speaker 2: 21:56

Not at this part of the trip. The Hulja horses we get there, right, right, that was. Things not not at, not at this part of the trip. But how much horses we get there, right, that's right. That's a couple of days after this, so so that was that was kind of non-confronting at all.

Speaker 2: 22:06

This, this particular one, it was just a normal boat, big boat, you know, fitted 20 of us, and we had a cook and they had a barbecue thing, and so it was all very civilized. Heaps of hippos, that was cool, so, and you know, landing platform at the edge of the boat which you could stand out and watch. You'd want to be careful that you didn't fall in, because there are a lot of hippos in there.

Speaker 1: 22:25

Oh yes. Well, that's kind of a hint to what I mentioned last week about the thing that you did.

Speaker 2: 22:30

Oh, okay that you stopped at a bit of a clue. Oh, really Expected.

Speaker 1: 22:35

Interesting. Yeah, yeah, that is a bit of a clue, but before we leave Namibia and move on to Botswana, is there any tips that you'd share for anybody visiting Namibia for the first time?

Speaker 2: 22:44

Oh, you know what. Absolutely, look at how many kilometres are between your destinations. Because a lot of the people that are on our safari trip, the Overland trip kind of, when we arrive they're like, oh, where have you been? What have arrive? They're like, oh, where have you been? What have you been doing?

Speaker 2: 23:03

And whilst they said they, they really liked, you know like that, said, um, they saw fish, I think it's was at fish river, canyon and the orange river and by some beautiful trees at dead dead valley or something like that. They loved all that, but they, they found the a lot of them, not all of them found the travel quite difficult. They said I didn't probably read the itinerary well enough before I went. So I'd say to anyone who's doing any of these overland safaris, particularly through Namibia, read the itinerary and you know, in some of these places maybe not so much Namibia but Botswana the roads aren't like the roads we're used to. I mean, people say this when you go to the UK, don't? They Don't think that your 300 kilometres is their 300 kilometres. Same thing for Africa, but in a different way than I just had the uk, yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:42

So that would be my biggest tip. Perfect, right. So let's talk about botswana now. I lived in botswana for a few years. I used to. I lived in in gabarone um ran an estuary school there. Um yeah, would you believe it?

Speaker 2: 23:52

and taught english as well. Oh wow, I'd love to do something like that.

Speaker 1: 23:57

My next job so, uh, yeah, that that was a long time ago. I think we're talking, oh, my goodness, 30, 32 years ago, something like that. Yeah, I'm feeling old when I say that now.

Speaker 2: 24:08

I've done a bit of that length of time.

Speaker 1: 24:11

And it's changed a lot. Actually Gaborone, the capital when I lived there, there was literally a couple of shops and there wasn't very much. Now there's like big shopping malls and all sorts has become far more developed than it was. But obviously you were in the northern part of Botswana, so tell me about your experience in Botswana.

Speaker 2: 24:28

Oh, I love Botswana, so pleased that we went to Botswana, and you know we're really quite off the beaten track for the most part of it, so you know we didn't go to the capital or anything like that. So I think Botswana, you know, we went into the Okavango Delta. I mean that's a big highlight, yeah. So before we went into the Delta we'd been staying at Morn the night before, moun the night before. So, and look, we were super tired when we got there.

Speaker 2: 25:02

Because one thing I'd have to say from my experience of that northern part of Botswana is like the roads are terrible, like really bad. And you know, I think there was one day that was like, and I think it was from like Namibia, divindu, across the border to Mound, which might have been 400 kilometres or something, and it was like nine hours or something in this truck, because the roads were just like pothole, pothole, pothole. Um, yeah, anyway, from Mound, like very early the next morning we got up and did a not everyone did this we did this small plane trip over the Okavango Delta, like fabulous, probably one of my life highlights, because it's just so stunning and so vast, and getting up in this little plane and there are only four passengers on it so it was very little. But you know you can look down, you can see elephants and that sort of thing. So that was really cool. That probably was sport for me, in that I did get sick on the plane In between vomiting. I really loved it. It was very good.

Speaker 1: 26:04

Yeah, was that because the plane was bumpy, or just that you oh?

Speaker 2: 26:07

no, I think I'd eaten some. I had a bit of food. I think I'd eaten something the night before. Oh, that's a good idea. Which happened to me twice in the trip actually. So I was very adventurous with the food and that sort of thing and probably a tip for people would be just be a bit careful around some of those food hygiene rules that you need in various countries around the world, like ice, and not eating the ice which that you need in various countries around the world like ice and not eating the ice, which I disregard Sometimes.

Speaker 2: 26:32

I just got so excited about it all. I was very tired. You know, it's tiring doing these safaris, and the night before that plane trip where we were staying, I just sort of didn't give much thought to anything when I was ordering. And I had, you know, I had a mineral water with ice and so that's possibly what did it.

Speaker 1: 26:46

But anyway, potentially, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 26:53

But yeah, so that was in. So, yeah, we went over the Delta and then, once we got back from the plane trip, we then actually had to go back into the Delta in a Jeep, and so that was about a four or five-hour trip in a Jeep into the Delta. A lot of it kind of off-road that sort of thing, and I was kind of a bit, oh my gosh, I wish I'd realised this was going to be in a Jeep, you know. Anyway, it was so much fun. It was one of our most fun trips. It was hours in this Jeep along the bumpy roads and going to the toilet, you know, bushy, bushy on the side of the road. That was the first time I absolutely had to do that. I was trying to avoid it, but you know, yeah, but just getting into that delta was just so stunning, yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:31

I hope there's no lions walking around the area.

Speaker 2: 27:33

Well, that was one of the things when we went into the delta so we'd booked the a lot of these overland safaris. You can book accommodated or camping. So in the delta it's camping. So it was a pre-erected camp but it wasn't glamping, it was still like camping. Camping and like they do have lines and things in there, and we did see some lines in there so at night time. So it really was a rustic camp, you know campfire, but the staff there are just phenomenal and the camps aren't permanent campsites either. They set them up and take them down, but they, you know, they really spoke to us very strongly about safety. It's like you go into a tent at night time and you don't come out of your tent at night time and it was just fascinating. I thought I'd be scared but I was more fascinated.

Speaker 2: 28:18

So you know that one night we were in there two nights and there was one night I heard, you know, lions, hyenas, hippos and something or other elephants you know, all outside, you know, and you're laying there and you can hear these noises and I'm like, wow, and at the time I wasn't exactly sure, like what's the grunting one, you know? So the next morning I'm like, oh, there's one that was grunting. They're like, oh, that's the hippos, you know. And so you're in a canvas tent and outside there's these animals. So yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did some safari drives in there, but then, of course, we did the one thing that I think might be your scary thing, that you wouldn't like to do, and it's the Macoro ride. So that was actually through the Delta. So it's like a dugout canoe and a person stands and paddles you through the Delta. In some respects it's like a gondola in venice, but a bit more rustic you don't have any hippos in in, in the canals in venice, as I'm aware.

Speaker 2: 29:15

anyway, we loved it. Um, it was great. Um, it was so peaceful, so react, so relaxing. You're right down on the water and, um, you know, they're paddling along and pointing out all the wildlife and you know, so we were seeing like antelopes and that sort of thing, and we've got quite a long way down the river and then there's this, like you know, group of hippos, and so we're just sitting there just watching the hippos and they said to us oh, the hippos are usually here, so we actually don't usually go beyond this point.

Speaker 2: 29:43

Now, probably in the back of my mind, I, those hippos really aren't that far away and I know hippos move fast, so if they wanted to get us they could, but fortunately they didn't and we're still here, uh, so that was that inch. And then, you know, we'd been going downstream, I don't know, for an hour, an hour and a half, so then we had to come back the other way to get back to our transport. So, as we're heading back, where he's paddling along and I'm like, hang on a minute, there's a herd, cape buffalo, and so at one end we've got hippos and at the other end we've got Cape buffalo and they're very vicious too.

Speaker 1: 30:15

There's two very dangerous animals on either, and then this little tin thing.

Speaker 2: 30:21

I'm sort of sitting there going oh, we could be stuck out here all night. But anyway, as I've learned a lot in Africa, for most of these animals, if you just keep your distance, sit and wait, they'll move on. They're probably not as territorial as the hippos, so we just sat and watched them wait. They just walked off, went up the bank and off they went and we kept going and it was such a leisurely, calming, relaxing afternoon and you absolutely have to do it, tracy, you'll love it.

Speaker 1: 30:46

I'm literally terrified of doing it. I am absolutely it's one of those ones where it's because I think the vulnerability of being in that when there's hippos around and I know they're kind of, you know, going to be careful, and the safety, but they just terrify the life out of me, and I think hippos kill more people in Africa than any other animal, mainly when they're on land, though, yeah, no, they do.

Speaker 2: 31:08

There's so much vulnerability, though, of so many situations over there. That same trip, you know, I said we went off-road actually to get into the camping site. We were sitting on the edge of this like waterway watching this hippo playing around the water. I'm oh, that's cool. Next minute he just takes off and starts driving into the water. It was kind of up to our wheels and like right beside us, like literally there's the hippo and we're just like driving straight past it and the hippo is, like you know, a metre away and I'm like, oh my gosh, but I mean we're in a safari vehicle and it probably goes obviously faster than a makoro. But yeah, so there were a few interesting hippo encounters.

Speaker 1: 31:45

Yeah. So I think there are times when you do the things in Africa that you do, that you sometimes feel a little bit more vulnerable and a little bit more like we talked about last week a little bit scared at times. But that's one of the ones that I kind of go oh, I don't know. I'm sure when the opportunity arises I will do it, but I have up to this point been no, I don't want to do that. It's too scary.

Speaker 2: 32:04

That's it. I do think you also need to keep in mind, when you're on holidays, like you're not invincible, and sometimes I think there is that kind of danger that you're out of your normal environment and you think you're invincible. So I think it's important to keep that in mind.

Speaker 1: 32:19

You know what's really interesting, when I first went to Tasmania and I was walking around and there was wombats everywhere and I remember feeling like you know, this is something you can't do in Africa. You can't walk around and have like kangaroos and wombats around you, like you just can't do that in africa.

Speaker 1: 32:36

That's something. So I would never do a walk-in uh safari. I've never wanted to do that at all. Yeah, that just would feel too vulnerable. And the thing is, I think you need to gauge yourself like are you a flight or a flight? I'm a flight person, so so, I got scared.

Speaker 2: 32:50

I'd want to yeah, you know I'd be like I don't want to get out of the situation. Yeah, exactly, we did a little bit of a walking safari at Kruger, just where we were staying, but in that little, that private sort of game reserve they didn't have. Oh, they did have leopard, but hardly ever saw it. So we actually walked, like with zebras and zebra giraffe, kudo, so that was pretty cool. You kept your distance, though, but we knew there were no lions or cheetahs or hyenas in that area, so that kind of helped.

Speaker 1: 33:22

Yeah, definitely. So then after so, did you stay in the Delta for a few more days or did you kind of move yeah?

Speaker 2: 33:27

so we stayed just like two nights in the Delta for a few more days, or did you kind of move? Yeah, so we stayed just like two nights in the Delta and then after the Delta we came out and we stayed somewhere near Chobe, sort of a bit further out, not far from the border of Zimbabwe I just can't think of the name of the place. But yeah, from there we did like a river sort of safari up the Chobe River. That was probably, in fact that's probably the highlight of my whole trip the river, the cruise up the Chobe River and the Chobe National Park there.

Speaker 1: 34:02

And Chobe is really famous for its elephants.

Speaker 2: 34:05

Yeah, and I think that was the highlight like the elephants were just on that trip, like just elephants were just on that trip, like just elephants every which way you could look, you know, and just the breeding herds, you know, with the baby elephants and some of them so young. There were other animals as well but, like I've said to you, by this point of the trip some of the animals were a bit ho-hum about and look, we had seen a lot of elephants, but these they were just elephants en masse and just seeing the mothers with their babies and you know this one, you know elephants getting stuck in the mud, little babies and rolling around, the mothers hoiking them out and almost going mad at them and just watching all of that. Yeah, so that was a magical afternoon. And the sunset, I think, that afternoon too, with the elephant, just you know, that was just amazing. So that that was awesome there.

Speaker 2: 34:51

And then the next morning there was an optional safari drive and this was our very last safari drive of the entire trip and, quite honestly, we had done tons of safari drives, sort of through South Africa Garden Route, you know, all over the Shabatosh, so it was kind of like, and it was early morning, I think it was leave at five o'clock, and so not everybody on our truck decided they wanted to do this because you know, like I've said, it's quite tiring those trucks and it's long days and lots of kilometers. So only half of us decided to do it and I'm like no no, we're doing it.

Speaker 2: 35:22

Anyway, we did it. This guy's like what do you want to see? We want to see a leopard, you know, of course. But as by now we've seen everything, we just need this leopard. And we got into the safari drive. He's like oh, I'll try and find you a leopard. You know, this is the best time early morning. And as we're heading along, yep, no leopard. At one point he's like oh, there's leopard tracks there and drag marks. They must have had a kill here last night. No leopard.

Speaker 2: 35:43

Half an hour later, driving along, and we're seeing other fabulous stuff, you know, know. And then he's like oh, look at the tree, and here's this impala, not much left of it, just like a head and carcass. It's like, oh, a leopard's obviously been up there. And so, just when I'd resigned myself to the fact well, this is the closest we're going to get to a leopard, because we've got no more safari drives driving along, and it comes over the radio, there's a leopard. And along, and it comes over the radar radio, there's a leopard. And he said, oh, we're a long way from the leopard. I'm like I like the wind bullseye. And so he just took off, this guy and look, he probably broke a few of the rules of the park because we're tearing down this road, overtaking other safari vehicles um, you know, no seat belts or anything.

Speaker 2: 36:26

It was so much fun, the actual drive, and then we sort of got up close. It was, like you know, boxing Day sales. There were safari jeeps everywhere, and this guy honestly went in front of a few of them, but we got the leopard. So this leopard's just, you know, casually walking through, not looking too perturbed really by all these people looking at it, and yeah, so we got to see a leopard, and so that was amazing. And the leopard actually after a bit, you know, went up a tree and most of the other safari trucks took off, but us and one other stayed. So then we were able to watch him up the tree and then he came oh, it was a she actually and she came down out of the tree again. And yeah, so it was just amazing because it was our very last safari getting towards the end of our very last safari, and here we found our leopard. So we're very happy about that.

Speaker 1: 37:10

Perfect. That's good, so you're seeing all the animals that you wanted to see, so that's really.

Speaker 2: 37:16

That's perfect. So we saw the big five and you know we saw everything we wanted to see and it was just like this leopard just kept us in suspense for four whole weeks and finally saw one.

Speaker 1: 37:29

Well, at least you did get to see it, because I'm sure those people who didn't get out of bed that morning were kicking themselves like they hadn't oh they were.

Speaker 2: 37:35

We were kind of like oh, do we tell them we've seen a leopard? We did, we glided.

Speaker 1: 37:40

Now, I know you went to Zimbabwe, so did you actually cross over to stay in Zimbabwe, or was it more kind of popping over the border? No, or was it more kind of?

Speaker 2: 37:47

popping over the border. No, we crossed the border. We didn't have any issues at all with the border crossing. I think sometimes it can take quite a long time that border crossing, and so we were kind of prepared for that. But no, that was fine. You do have to have like crisp US dollars for your visas and things there, and there are a couple of places actually where they wanted US dollars. They had to be from 2021 onward, like new ones. So you know, just be aware of that people going with the currency. Yeah, the currencies were I won't talk about today, but that was quite interesting. With all these different countries and currencies and that sort of thing you couldn't use your wise card for. You know everything. So, yeah, we crossed the border.

Speaker 2: 38:27

We went firstly straight to see the big I think it's Boabab tree. You know very ancient old tree, I think it's the oldest one in the world and then from that a group of us went straight to the falls because we wanted to see the falls straight away, whereas other people went back to accommodation and yeah, it was good. Actually, one of the ladies in the trip she had grown up in Zimbabwe. She lives in Australia now, and so she was kind of able to show us around a bit too. So we became quite friendly with this couple, so we walked around the Zimbabwe side of the falls with them. They were just everything you expect and more like absolutely majestic, stunning, amazing, Loved them so, so good.

Speaker 2: 39:08

There were, you know, quite a few people in there. It's not like you're getting these falls on your own, and I think there's like 16 different sort of viewing points. So we started at number one. I went through the whole lot of them. I think by the time you got to about number four, you're absolute. Oh, we take a rain jacket but you're absolutely drenched, like it was just insanely wet. But we persisted and went the whole way through it all and yeah, and just the sound of them and loved all that. And yeah, went back to our accommodation after that and stayed there and we were staying quite close in town at Shearwater, which is a really good place to stay actually, and so that night we had a meal that local women had made who run a charity. So that was another experience of like local food. And there's a local theatre if anyone's ever in Victoria Falls and they do like a musical stage show thing and that was really excellent. I could highly recommend that.

Speaker 2: 40:02

What else did we do there? Oh, and then the next day. Oh, was it the next day? Yeah, I think we decided to. I just can't quite remember on the actual days. Now it was our last day there. Oh, I know what we did the next day? We did the helicopter.

Speaker 1: 40:16

I was going to ask you that. I was just about to say that I'm sure you did a helicopter ride, don't you?

Speaker 2: 40:20

I did a helicopter, so next morning it was such a big trip I was like, oh, next, spectacular. It was great to see the falls, you know, like up close from the ground and just on the top too, just to see the actual landscape of the place. And it was quite interesting that, you know, all these rivers sort of converge to join one big river to go over the falls, which is, you know, this big crevice, but then after the falls it's really narrow, you know, that was interesting to see. So, yeah, the helicopter was lots of fun, got to sit in the front seat, which I've never done before. So, yeah, I really liked that.

Speaker 2: 40:53

Yeah, and then that afternoon we used the afternoon exploring Victoria Falls township and doing a bit of shopping, that sort of thing. The shopping in Victoria Falls was probably a little more expensive than other countries we'd been to, because you know their economy is very poor and it's in US dollars too, which is bad exchange, not a good exchange rate for Australians. So probably, if you're doing a trip like it, I'd recommend it's hard to know, because I think the Zimbabwean economy can use our money but if you you know so, from that sort of point of view it's nice to support them. But if you want to try and save dollars. Things are cheaper back in South Africa.

Speaker 2: 41:29

So, yeah, yeah, and what else did we do? I think it was, and it was that day we left our safari group too, and you know, we'd made some close connections with those people, so that was a little sad. To say goodbye to them. Yeah, so we did that. And then the following day was our last day, so we started the day by going on what was called the Bamba tram. So it's a tram that actually picked us up at 5.15 in the morning and took us out to the middle of the bridge, and so we actually watched sunrise from the middle of the bridge. That was cool.

Speaker 1: 42:04

And you went over to Zambia.

Speaker 2: 42:06

Yeah Well, so on that tram they sort of take you over to Zambia, but just like a little bit so you didn't need visas or anything like that. But then, after we'd finished that, we actually got them to drop us off at the Zimbabwe sort of border post. So we actually did the proper when we'd gone into Zimbabwe we got a type of visa, a double entry visa, so we could go into Zambia. So we actually did the whole thing. You know, through the Zimbabwe border into Zambia, all of that. It's a very long. Well, I thought it was quite a long walk between the two sort of Zimbabwe and Zambia immigration places and it's really chaotic sort of in between. There's all these trucks and I think only one truck can go over the bridge at a time and there's baboons oh my gosh, the baboons everywhere.

Speaker 2: 42:50

And we were really pleased we went to the Zambia side of the fall. I think that's a question a lot of people ask when they go to Victoria Falls and everyone says, oh well, you a lot, it's a lot bigger on the Zimbabwe side, you see a lot more, there's more viewing points and but oh, and that's all true, but we love the Zambia side. Uh, it wasn't as busy, and I think the time of the year was good for us too. The falls were full. Sometimes I think they're nearly empty on that side, but it wasn't as busy. They were big and powerful and actually closer to them. The viewing points are closer to them, so we love it.

Speaker 1: 43:22

Yeah, oh, I've not. I've actually not. I've been to. I've been to vic falls. Um, actually the last time I was, I was a vic falls.

Speaker 2: 43:28

I was about four months pregnant with my daughter, a long time ago I would say take the trip like walk across the border or get the right visa firstly and then walk across the border. And Well, get the right visa firstly and then walk across the border and go in there. It's cheaper to see them from that side too. Another thing, just for people to be aware of going to Victoria Falls you actually have to pay national park fees to go in there, and it's quite expensive. On the Zimbabwe side it's US$50 per person per entry. So we'd elected, after we finished our tour, to spend a few days in Victoria Falls on our own. So I had visions of I was going to go in there every day and go on a sunrise and sunset. But well, you can't be paying $50 every time you go in, so you really have to think about your timing of when you're going in. So it's $50 from the Zimbabwe side and $20 from the Zambia side.

Speaker 1: 44:15

Okay, that's good to know. Now you mentioned briefly there about um buying things, did you? Did you buy lots of souvenirs when you were there?

Speaker 2: 44:22

oh look, I was trying hard not to, I just the whole trip as a whole. I yeah, so, um, I think when you're going on overland safari truck, you do have a bit of a luggage limit, and so you've got to keep that in mind. And for us too, the first day we're in johannesburg, for example, it was zero degrees, felt like minus two, and then when, once you're getting into Namibia, it's still really cold mornings but hot during the day. So you need clothes for a lot of climates and you have it, whilst you have a 20 kilogram limit, which isn't too bad, the bags particular size.

Speaker 2: 44:52

So I didn't have a lot of room for souvenirs. But in saying that I bought, put a lot of the stone. They make a lot of stone ornaments, yes, so I bought bookends and stone ornaments. And then I try and buy a lot of stuff you can lose at home. Use at home regularly, say salad servers, and you know I mean mostly we buy magnets from everywhere we go. And I need to start on my spare fridge. I've got a spare fridge downstairs because my upstairs fridge is you know.

Speaker 1: 45:19

Yeah, so we did buy things. We're a bit like that with fridge magnets we've started. Now we've just bought a magnetic board that we can put up in the kitchen, because we have so many, because it's like when you, when you kind of restrict and they're not heavy, um so. So, overall, you had a fantastic trip. So what was the thing you mentioned last week? There was something that you ate that most people wouldn't eat, and I think that's what you haven't covered. So what was that?

Speaker 2: 45:41

Oh. So very last night we went to what was called a bomber dinner in Victoria Falls. Again, they had all those different sorts of foods you could try game meats or whatever but they had a worm called the mopane worm which is very popular, I think, in Zimbabwe and some of the southern African countries, and so that was a bit of a thing. You know, try the mopane worm, which a lot of people weren't game to. But look, I tried it and it was perfectly fine. It was a bit crunchy, but I didn't look at it too much before I had it. I just went up and said I'll try that and the woman sort of gave it to me and I stuck it in my mouth and had a bit of a chew and yeah, it didn't taste awful but the crunch was a bit off-putting. And then I had a really good look at the worms afterwards and yeah, they didn't look terribly appetising. But yeah, I did that and got a certificate to prove it. So my husband wasn't game.

Speaker 1: 46:31

So yes, no, I don't think I would have. I think I would have given that a skip. I have to say, I think when I first arrived in South Africa, I watched somebody frying them up I think it was at school, I don't know if it was a caretaker frying them up and I was like oh, no. I don't think I'm going to try any of those.

Speaker 2: 46:46

Yeah, I'm very much like to try things, so yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:49

Well, that's good, you can try them, you can take that for. So you went to a lot of countries, so you know. So what were the challenges of that? Because I guess a little bit about the luggage and the packing. You have to think very carefully about that. But you know you went to four different countries. Well, five, if you include.

Speaker 2: 47:09

Zara, I think you have to be well organised and have your itinerary, really, you know, down pat and just little tips, like we put. You know, we made sure we had all the WhatsApp numbers of the providers in our phones before we went, and so often, a day or two before we're meant to be going on a particular tour or something, we'd just WhatsApp the person and sort of say, you know, just checking, this is all okay. So it was pretty seamless then, you know, knowing that well, that transfer actually is going to arrive, that sort of thing. Yeah, the packing, the, yeah being organized, yeah, um, yeah, just being being flexible if things don't go to plan. But look, we're pretty lucky and pretty much most things go winter plan.

Speaker 2: 47:49

Um, you know, be prepared for long days and bumpy journeys, and particularly through that Namibia, botswana bit, um and uh, and your internet's not great either. So you've got to bear that in mind too. I mean, it'd be much harder for you, obviously, operating a business like that, but you know. So if you're needing to contact some providers, you know that sort of thing. You need to think about that, yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:14

So we kind of went through one tip for Namibia. Have you got a specific tip that you'd say for somebody visiting?

Speaker 2: 48:25

Botswana and anything, particularly for Zimbabwe. Yeah, botswana, yeah, just go with it, take every experience you can get and just enjoy it. And you know, I definitely would say too, like it's very costly to be doing, like the aeroplane trip, but you probably, for for most people, you're not going to be back there. So do it, yeah, so, and and I would say too, in botswana to, to go off the beaten track and do that wildlife like, go and go in there and camp and be adventurous and and do the makoro, put your full adventure self on and do that and and for Zimbabwe, I probably would say you know, probably buy your souvenirs and things before Zimbabwe. Really, yeah, if you're going to the falls, I would see both sides of the falls, definitely.

Speaker 2: 49:16

There's a cafe at Victoria Falls I think it's called the lookout cafe maybe which is just it's great, you know you sit there, get a great view. Definitely book that in advance, like. So that would be a good point, book that in advance. And also the other thing we did if you're doing an overland safari. So at the end, when we finished the safari, we actually went and stayed at another safari lodge out on the Zambezi River, so it was right on the edge of the river and it had a beautiful swimming pool and it was not massively big and it was just really relaxing. And so we spent an afternoon there just sitting beside the pool, and that's the place where the hippos came up out of the water, at night time too. I forgot to say that earlier.

Speaker 1: 49:56

Yes, open the door and the hippo outside.

Speaker 2: 50:04

But that sort of just added to the experience. It was kind of a nice way to finish off because it was peaceful, it was relaxing hippos, warthogs walking around, you know very cool. But yeah, you did have to be careful with the hippo fantastic now.

Speaker 1: 50:13

Well, you had a.

Speaker 1: 50:13

You really had a trip of a lifetime, you really did, and it's uh, it's been fantastic covering it over the last couple of episodes and and, uh, just hearing about all your places you visited, all your experiences that you've had, the animals you've seen and, um, yeah, it's made me excited to go back. I haven't been actually. I've been in africa for 15 years, which is, I think, the longest I've ever been away. So I went back for sure. But, um, thanks so much, tanya, for coming on and we will share in the show notes for this episode as well and last week's episode we'll we'll get some photos off tanya as well to show you some of the places they went and and some of the views that they saw, um, as well. So that'd be great if you could share those, tanya. But, yeah, always great to catch up and find out where's your next big trip.

Speaker 2: 50:54

I have to ask you well, my next trips aren't as big, they're kind of smaller ones. So we're going to Vietnam and Cambodia at the end of the year and we're going to Japan early next year. And then I was. I've got a new top of the bucket list because now I've done my bucket list. So I'm aiming in a couple of years to go to Uganda and go trekking with the gorillas. So I'm in training. So yes, that's exciting one.

Speaker 1: 51:18

It sounds like you've got some amazing plans ahead of Vietnam, cambodia and Japan. They're not little trips. They're fantastic, I know.

Speaker 2: 51:26

I know.

Speaker 1: 51:26

Very different from Africa, but just fantastic, and I know you're going to have an amazing time there. I'm so excited to get to Japan as well, and maybe we'll catch up after those as well and find out how they went. And maybe we'll catch up after those as well and find out how they went. Thanks so much for coming on and chatting with us the last couple of weeks about your African adventure. Yeah, not a problem, my pleasure.

Speaker 1: 51:45

Thanks again, titania, for joining me to share part two of her incredible Africa journey. Travelling overland through Namibia, botswana and Zimbabwe brought with it some amazing memories and I hope it's left you feeling just as inspired to explore this part of the world. Do you have a question or your own travel story to share? Head to Speakpipe and leave us a voice message, because we'd love to hear from you. If you'd like to support or sponsor the podcast, you'll find everything you need in the show notes at globaltravelplanetcom.

Speaker 1: 52:12

Forward slash episode 71. Whether it's buying us a cup of tea, leaving a review or sharing the episode with a fellow traveller, we truly appreciate it. Thanks again for listening and, as always, happy global travel planning. Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Global Travel Planning Podcast. For more details and links to everything we discussed today, check out the show notes at globaltravelplanningcom. Remember. If you enjoyed the show, please consider leaving us a review on your favorite podcast app, because your feedback helps us reach more travel enthusiasts, just like you anyway. That leaves me to say, as always happy global travel planning, thank you.