Caring for the Elderly (Timeless)

We tackle our duty to care for the elderly. Join us as we share personal stories, biblical insights, and practical advice on honoring and supporting our seniors. This episode will challenge you to reflect on your actions, your church and its senior ministry, and inspire you to embrace the wisdom and grace of aging in a way that glorifies God. 

Thank you for listening!

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Transcript

Chad [00:00:02]:
I'm doing an additional search here.

Dave [00:00:04]:
Oh, famous famous Canadian. Famous Canadians.

Chad [00:00:07]:
I mean, moving on, we have Brendan Fraser. Yes. And then then it goes way downhill. I mean, Bashar al Assad, famous Canadian.

Dave [00:00:16]:
Wait. For real? Bashar wait. The Assad. The Assad that just says

Chad [00:00:20]:
emperor Hirohito. Oh, stop. Nice.

Greg [00:00:23]:
Okay. Yeah.

Dave [00:00:25]:
Just start

Chad [00:00:26]:
Canadian society's got a really nasty underbelly.

Greg [00:00:29]:
Mhmm.

Dave [00:01:01]:
By the way, I just, learned that I knew that Davy Crockett was from Tennessee. Mhmm. Now we're getting political. But he ran for Congress and won. Yes. And then he,

Greg [00:01:17]:
And they tried to Fell out of favor. Twice?

Dave [00:01:19]:
No. No. He fell out of favor with Jackson Yep. Who then ran a dirty campaign against him and got him basically elected out or deselected or

Greg [00:01:34]:
Mhmm.

Dave [00:01:34]:
They right? They they they primary him kind of a type of thing. And and then that's why he ended up going to Texas where he ended up at the Alamo. Wow. Yeah. Sounds like politics today, doesn't it?

Chad [00:01:47]:
Yeah. It kinda does.

Dave [00:01:48]:
Yeah. Some things never change.

Chad [00:01:50]:
Except politicians today usually won't pick up a gun and go fight for themselves. But Yeah. Most of them.

Dave [00:01:58]:
Some of them do. Yeah. It it was all over. He voted against removal of Indians. Ah. That's what Jackson, of course, that's that's this bad stuff that Jackson voted for. Yeah. Right? The Trail of Tears and all that.

Dave [00:02:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. But, anyway, total trivia. I just was watching that.

Greg [00:02:13]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:02:13]:
Good series to watch. The men you know, the series, the men that made America? Yep. Yep. Well, they have 1, men that made America, the frontiersman. Oh. And so so far, it's been, Daniel Boone, Jackson, David Crockett. Okay? Fremont and Kit Carson are next. So haven't seen those yet.

Dave [00:02:34]:
Yeah. I mean, I don't how did we get there from Rock City?

Greg [00:02:37]:
I don't know.

Chad [00:02:37]:
You took us there, man.

Dave [00:02:38]:
Because I did.

Greg [00:02:39]:
I wonder if the CBC has a version of the the men who made Canada a.

Dave [00:02:46]:
The maple syrup king.

Chad [00:02:48]:
Yeah. The mounties.

Dave [00:02:50]:
The Canadian bacon. Magnate.

Greg [00:02:54]:
How the Mounties were formed.

Chad [00:02:56]:
That's right.

Dave [00:02:56]:
That's true. That'd be kind of interesting. Yeah. It would be. Yeah. Yeah.

Greg [00:03:01]:
Pierre Polaventure's hairstylist. Yes. The man who made Canada.

Dave [00:03:05]:
The man who made oh, William Shatner. They have given us

Greg [00:03:10]:
some pretty

Dave [00:03:10]:
decent actors.

Greg [00:03:11]:
There you go. John Candy, Michael Myers, the comedian, not them.

Dave [00:03:17]:
Carrot Carey. Jim Carey. He was Canadian. Why? Yeah. Jim Carey?

Chad [00:03:23]:
I don't know.

Greg [00:03:24]:
We'll have

Chad [00:03:24]:
to find out. Alright.

Dave [00:03:25]:
Fact check.

Greg [00:03:25]:
Head into the fact checker.

Dave [00:03:27]:
Yeah. Musicians. Doug and Bob McKenzie.

Greg [00:03:29]:
Doug and Bob McKenzie. Martin Short. He's

Dave [00:03:32]:
Martin Short's Canadian. Yeah. He's hilarious.

Chad [00:03:35]:
Jim Carrey is Canadian.

Dave [00:03:37]:
Oh, wow. Fact check.

Greg [00:03:39]:
Not false. Broken clocks, right, twice a day.

Dave [00:03:42]:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm just glad I'm a broken clock. Yep.

Chad [00:03:47]:
I'm doing an additional search here.

Greg [00:03:49]:
Oh, famous famous Canadians. Famous Canadians.

Dave [00:03:52]:
What's the what's the girl's name that played the elf in in, Lord of the Rings? In The Hobbit, she played the elf that's a non character in the books, but they made it up just for the just for the movies. And she played in Lost. She's Canadian as well. Don't remember her name.

Greg [00:04:11]:
That's You

Dave [00:04:11]:
know the the Evangeline something or Yeah. Evangeline Lilly, I think it was Trivia

Greg [00:04:15]:
for my wife.

Dave [00:04:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. I never watched Lost, to be honest.

Chad [00:04:20]:
So famous Canadians include Celine Dion, Avril Lavigne, Justin Bieber. Avril?

Dave [00:04:34]:
What is it Avril?

Chad [00:04:36]:
Avril. Justin Bieber. Mhmm. Yeah. Shania Twain. Yeah. That I knew. Drake?

Dave [00:04:45]:
Mhmm. Drake is really from Canada.

Chad [00:04:47]:
Yep. The Weeknd. Mhmm.

Dave [00:04:49]:
Who knew? Yep. What is The Weeknd? The Weeknd.

Chad [00:04:52]:
Oh, dude.

Dave [00:04:53]:
No. Seriously. Bro. Bro. Bro. Bro. He's trying to talk all hip. Bro.

Dave [00:05:00]:
Bro. Who's The Weeknd? What is The Weeknd? Is it a group? Yes.

Chad [00:05:06]:
More or less. Phil Hartman. Phil.

Dave [00:05:11]:
Ryan Reynolds. Before his wife went postal on him.

Chad [00:05:14]:
Yeah. Ryan Reynolds.

Dave [00:05:15]:
Ryan Davenport. Yeah.

Chad [00:05:17]:
Seth Bogen?

Dave [00:05:20]:
Yeah. Me.

Chad [00:05:22]:
Keanu Reeves.

Greg [00:05:24]:
Yep. Yep.

Dave [00:05:25]:
Yep. Okay. There's one worth claiming. No doubt. I mean, he knows how to handle a gun.

Chad [00:05:32]:
Rachel McAdams. Really? Ellen Page.

Dave [00:05:37]:
Are you allowed to say that? You just deadnamed her.

Chad [00:05:39]:
Well, I'm this that is the name of the person that was born in Canada.

Dave [00:05:46]:
Norm Macdonald? Norm Macdonald's Canadian?

Chad [00:05:50]:
I think you're right.

Dave [00:05:52]:
I love Norm McDowell. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I'm allowed to claim that I like him. Wayne Gretzky? Yeah. That I drive past when I go when I go to my in laws, I drive past his hometown.

Greg [00:06:03]:
So here's the other exciting thing. Not only did I take my brother to Bronner's, but I took him to an OHL hockey game. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. And so this this game, we went to, to the Oshawa Generals played the Saginaw Spirit. And, so this I can't remember. What's that? Did the Spirit win? They won 6 to 1.

Greg [00:06:27]:
Oh, nice. And, they have a player, I can't remember his name, but he's, he's gonna be a top NHL draft. And he's supposed to be, like, a generational superstar.

Dave [00:06:38]:
Does Spirit do? Yes. I think I've heard of this guy.

Greg [00:06:41]:
Yeah. And, and he did. He scored 2 goals. There was another player that scored 3 goals, so he got a? Hat trick. He got a hat trick. So when he got his hat trick, everybody started throwing their hats on the ice, and my boys are like, what's going on? And I said, he scored a hat trick.

Dave [00:07:01]:
Are you ashamed that your children

Greg [00:07:02]:
I was I was a little bit disappointed.

Dave [00:07:05]:
In in yourself or in them? Because isn't that a statement about your parenting?

Greg [00:07:10]:
Yeah. I guess I didn't take them to enough hockey games.

Dave [00:07:13]:
Hey.

Greg [00:07:14]:
But the most exciting thing was the game got very chippy very early on because,

Dave [00:07:21]:
Saginaw someone tried to plant their flag in the middle of the inning.

Greg [00:07:24]:
There was no flag planting, but but the spirit came out to a very early lead, and it was very physical, and, and there was a fight very early on. And both of the players were ejected from the game. Oh. And, and then there was another fight, and, they they both got majors for that. They weren't ejected. But then we got in the 3rd period, and, and the score, it was 4 to 1 when the 3rd period started. My middle son knew what a hat trick was. He went to, a lot of hockey games in college at the, at the University of Michigan.

Greg [00:08:04]:
Mhmm. And, so when they when they they scored the 5th goal, it's 5 to 1. He looks at me and he's like, dad, this game's gonna get ugly. And I'm like, oh, yeah. It sure is. Yeah. And, like, right after that goal was scored, Saginaw was on, was on offense, and they they were close to a breakaway play. And, Oshawa defender came across and just clotheslined him, just violently clotheslined, like, the the kids So

Dave [00:08:37]:
they

Greg [00:08:38]:
they just went completely horizontal. Oh, yeah. It was wicked. For drop Okay. So the kid went completely horizontal. He hit the ice. He gets up, and right away, he drops his gloves and throws his helmet off. Mhmm.

Greg [00:08:51]:
And they both go at each other. So that's charging Yep. And they get a major, and they get ejected. So there's 2 other players, opposing players that are across the ice. They look at each other, and they're like, oh, let's go. And they threw their helmets off, dropped their ice, and they skate, like, all the way across the ice to go at it. So there's 2 fights going on at once. And they were, like, they were they were should I be celebrating a fight? It's it's a hockey game.

Greg [00:09:22]:
Yeah. It's kinda

Dave [00:09:23]:
like the purpose for hockey is to have fights as well. Let me just say,

Greg [00:09:26]:
Jake Paul and Mike Tyson to absolute shame. Yeah. Okay? They really did. Netflix could have broadcast this game and made a lot more money. Yeah. When it was done, my little nephew's like, he's he's 70. He's looking. He's like, what's that? I'm like, that's blood on the ice.

Greg [00:09:50]:
It's like,

Dave [00:09:50]:
well well, nephew, that's what frozen blood looks like.

Greg [00:09:54]:
That's right. So it was a it was a it was a great game. There was 4 fights, 4 players ejected,

Dave [00:10:03]:
a hat trick. Yeah. And yet there's, like, the politest society.

Greg [00:10:06]:
And then a very, very rare thing happened Because hockey is so gentlemanly when the game is over, they'd line up and they'd, like, shake hands and say good game. Good game. Good game. The Oshawa team skated off the ice. Oh. They refused to shake hands.

Chad [00:10:23]:
Oh, that is unusual.

Greg [00:10:26]:
That is very unusual, but they were that upset about the game.

Dave [00:10:29]:
Yeah. Well, they were sorry. They were sorry about the loss.

Greg [00:10:32]:
They were very sorry.

Chad [00:10:34]:
You almost wonder if somebody didn't talk to him and say,

Greg [00:10:36]:
like, hey.

Chad [00:10:37]:
Listen. We don't trust you guys, and something's gonna get out

Dave [00:10:40]:
of control.

Chad [00:10:40]:
You they

Greg [00:10:41]:
as they were skating off the ice, they looked about as dejected as Ryan Day and the Ohio State Buckeyes.

Dave [00:10:49]:
That's a good good callback to the game. Yeah. I still think it's a par cheeseburger.

Greg [00:10:53]:
To do. Yeah. Yeah.

Chad [00:10:55]:
Speaking of callbacks, I'm I'm going through the list of famous Canadians, and it gets you keep going down, and it's like, there's Howie Mandel and Howie Mandel.

Greg [00:11:03]:
Mhmm. Yeah. You know?

Chad [00:11:04]:
Alex Trebek.

Dave [00:11:05]:
A really good actor.

Chad [00:11:06]:
Yeah. Alex Trebek? Yeah.

Dave [00:11:08]:
Good. Howie Mandel? You don't remember when he was actually an actor?

Greg [00:11:12]:
Yeah. Yeah. But really good an actor? I'm struggling.

Dave [00:11:16]:
Yeah. I mean, he was famous.

Greg [00:11:17]:
Struggling with your taste.

Chad [00:11:18]:
Well Yeah.

Dave [00:11:20]:
Yeah. He was in Saint Elsevier.

Chad [00:11:22]:
He was, wasn't he? Yeah. I mean, moving on, we have Brendan Fraser. Yes. And then then it goes way downhill. I mean, Bashar al Assad, famous Canadian. Wait. For real? Bashar wait. Assad.

Chad [00:11:36]:
The Assad that just Emperor Hirohito. Oh, stop. Nice.

Dave [00:11:40]:
Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Chad [00:11:42]:
Just start. Canadian society's got a really nasty underbelly.

Greg [00:11:46]:
Mhmm.

Chad [00:11:46]:
Kim Il sung, Pol Pot. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yep.

Dave [00:11:52]:
That's well

Chad [00:11:53]:
Real nice heritage there, Greg.

Greg [00:11:55]:
Okay. You're on the Internet. Yep. Yeah.

Dave [00:11:58]:
That took a weird turn at the end there.

Greg [00:12:00]:
Sorry. It did. Yeah.

Chad [00:12:03]:
So which topic do we wanna hit first tonight? And it may be our only one because I don't really care. Yeah. Alright. So

Dave [00:12:09]:
Well, let's do let's do taking care of

Chad [00:12:11]:
Taking care of the only? Okay. And I'm going to say 2 joke cap. 2 joke cap.

Dave [00:12:19]:
2 old people joke cap?

Greg [00:12:20]:
Yep. 2

Dave [00:12:22]:
joke cap. That's not gonna be hard for me. That'll be hard for Craig.

Chad [00:12:26]:
That is the 4th time you said that, sir. There's one of mine

Dave [00:12:33]:
right there. Yeah.

Chad [00:12:34]:
Yeah. So it's 2 for me, 2 for you.

Greg [00:12:36]:
Okay.

Chad [00:12:37]:
We'll give you 3 here. 3, Dave.

Dave [00:12:39]:
I won't remember how many I did anyways according to you guys. Okay.

Chad [00:12:44]:
And you just burned one off on yourself.

Greg [00:12:46]:
That's okay.

Chad [00:12:48]:
Alright. So caring for the elderly.

Greg [00:12:51]:
Yes.

Dave [00:12:52]:
Like, what what made you think about this topic?

Chad [00:12:55]:
I'm not entirely certain. I am a Gen Xer and I have a lot of friends and I myself have gone through it where you're at a stage in life where you're realizing that you are the matriarch, the patriarch of your family unit. You are in charge. You're the adultiest adult there is possible And that you are beginning to not only expend energy raising your kids, but also caring for the people that cared for you. Yeah. So it's kind of a stage of life that you never think you're gonna hit, and then one day, you're like, oh, here we are. So I don't know. It's just kinda been percolating for a while, and I thought maybe we can Yeah.

Chad [00:13:41]:
Give it a shot.

Dave [00:13:42]:
Yeah. I remember in my, probably, late thirties, we had a 3 generation camping trip, my dad, myself, and my son. Mhmm. We went up we were living in Pennsylvania at the time. We went up into the Adirondacks and had found a one day climb. Yeah. And I remember, like, my whole life, dad was always the one. I was tired, you know, as a kid.

Dave [00:14:07]:
You know, like, I don't wanna go anymore. He's like, only 15 more miles to go, son. Not really, but, you know, you get the idea. Mhmm. And then I just remembered halfway up that hike realizing that I mean, he wasn't getting old, old, but it was like he was getting tired and I was just getting started. Yeah. And that was a weird didn't say anything about it, but I just realized I had to slow down and help him. And, of course, you know, my son is just, I don't know, maybe 10, 12 years old and he's full of energy.

Dave [00:14:40]:
He's sprinting back and forth Yeah. Running up the hill out of us. And everyone's not going, I wanna be done. But but it was just this weird realization that, okay, this thing is there's a turn happening here. That was a first. And, I mean, that that sat with me for days Yeah. Just thinking about that. Never had I never really talked to him about it.

Dave [00:15:00]:
And how do you do how do you how do you help people age in a culture that doesn't honor age? How do you help them age with honor? Yeah. Because I I think that's a real you know, that's a reality that we do with. Is that in our culture, age is considered a bad thing. Right. It's not considered a particularly good thing because they're more interested in what the pop star has to think about it than Of course. A person who actually has lived life. Good topic.

Chad [00:15:28]:
Yeah. Great. Anything you wanna do to set the table for caring for the elderly?

Greg [00:15:33]:
To set the table. Oh,

Dave [00:15:36]:
I mean, this is your life livelihood, right, in

Greg [00:15:38]:
some ways? In in some ways, yeah. Taking care of the elderly every day. Just thinking back to, like, in my life, it would start being young and, but I know that in school, like, we had special projects. I remember going, like, on a field trip to a nursing home where we did, music programs at a nursing home and being, from a from a young age, being taught to do nice things for old people. So I remember that, and then I remember being older in youth group, the same thing, doing things for the older people. And then, as a youth pastor, I tried to instill that in in our youth. In our college group, I I remember one Christmas, we, they wanted to have a Christmas party. And I said instead of having a Christmas party, we're gonna spend, a night, we're gonna bake cookies, and then we're gonna deliver them to all of the shut ins in our church.

Greg [00:16:42]:
Mhmm. And they they, like, they didn't like that idea, and I made them do it. And when we were done, they thought that it was the best thing in the world.

Chad [00:16:52]:
Mhmm. Yeah.

Greg [00:16:53]:
And and they they split up into smaller groups. And I remember this one group went to this one lady's house, and this lady played this old big band music and got up and danced with them.

Dave [00:17:06]:
Oh, that's so cool.

Greg [00:17:06]:
And Yeah. They thought that it was the greatest thing in the world. And here's this lady that they'd never met because she couldn't get out and go to church. She was legally blind, so she couldn't drive unless somebody came and picked her up, which happened once in a while. She couldn't come to church. And and that had a really big impact on those college students who wanted me to plan a fun night for them. I made them do an act of service, and they ended up having a great time with old people Yeah. Caring for them.

Greg [00:17:40]:
And now and and now it's what I do, as a hospice chaplain. And I see it and I see I see so many different things because I see families who are prepared for it and families who aren't prepared for it. Families who have means, families who don't have means, families who have support, who don't have support, who have, spiritual stability without spiritual stability, families with incredible dysfunction, and and it's a lot. So it's an important thing to, talk about, to think about, how individually we can help care for the for the older people among us, but then as a church, how we can do that too.

Dave [00:18:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the biggest thing that I try to keep in mind is that for older people, one of the greatest challenges is the loss of independence. And, like, how do you how do you try to show honor? Like, how do you try to preserve their sense of independence? Yeah. Because you can't you just don't wanna tell them what to do all the time and things like that. But Right. You know, I think, biblically, just the idea of honoring your father and your mother, And I think that extends it's very clear that that extends out past past, you know, being 18 years old.

Dave [00:19:01]:
It's not something that a 18 year old needs to do Yeah. Or just that an 18 year old needs to do, but we need to be doing that. And the Bible is very clear that there's there's a role for older men and women in the church that's teaching the younger men and women. Yeah. So even from a pastoral perspective, how do we help our aging members function in a biblical way and how do we encourage them if we just isolate different age groups all the time and not let them cross pollinate as it were? We're we're gonna lose something that God's designed in the church. And I remember being a youth group member being forced by my parents to go with another intern from the church that they were at to this old guy's, you know, apartment in his little old folks home. And this guy had been a World War 2 veteran. And I, like, I really regretted going no.

Dave [00:19:58]:
I was not looking forward to going, but I didn't regret it because it was really fascinating to hear this guy talk. Yeah. Yeah. And it was literally hearing about because it I think, if I remember correctly, it's been a long, long time. But if I remember correctly, he he had landed on d day, and I I think it was Omaha Beach. I can't remember which one. But it was one of the beaches where it was easier. It may not be Omaha.

Dave [00:20:22]:
But

Greg [00:20:23]:
Yeah. Utah.

Dave [00:20:24]:
But anyway yeah. But it was really fascinating. But you don't realize it when you're younger, like, youth is wasted on the young as they say.

Greg [00:20:31]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:20:31]:
But I I gained a small appreciation even as a 15 year old.

Chad [00:20:35]:
Yeah. So you mentioned loss of independence and youth and the place that youth and age play in our culture today.

Dave [00:20:43]:
Mhmm.

Greg [00:20:43]:
I was

Chad [00:20:44]:
wondering if you can kinda look back in the way back machine and see historically how has the church handled the elderly over the years, like, looking back to the founding of the church, middle ages and beyond. Yeah.

Dave [00:20:57]:
That's interesting. Because it

Chad [00:20:59]:
wasn't always like this where you get to a certain age and depending on the country you're in, maybe you go off to a home or we we call a doctor and get things taken care of or, like, your motherland of Canada, Greg. Mhmm. You're

Dave [00:21:14]:
talking about assisted suicide? Yeah. Or or We'll probably get to that. Euthanasia, unquote? Yeah. Okay.

Chad [00:21:19]:
We'll probably get to that later. Yeah. But, yeah, like, traditionally, like, looking through the, you know, the late, you know, the late church founding and and into the, you know, 700, 800 through through the ages, and even across the world. I mean, what's the relationship of the church been with with the elderly?

Dave [00:21:39]:
Yeah. That's a really interesting question, partially because church history is probably my weakest area of theological. But, you know, in terms of the biblical material, you were to take care of the your family, you were to honor your parents, you were to you would be considered worse than a heathen if you didn't take care of your family. Right.

Chad [00:22:01]:
1st Timothy 5:8. I've always heard that I've always heard that applied to, like, divorce or family abandonment. Like, the dude's like, I'm out for a pack of smokes.

Dave [00:22:12]:
Never coming back. Like like some sort of the Bruce Springsteen song.

Chad [00:22:16]:
Exactly. Alright. That that's how I've always heard that applied, but I'd you know, I mean, I came across it as I was preparing for this. I'm just like, yeah. That can apply for the elderly as well.

Dave [00:22:26]:
Yeah. I mean so I can't speak specifically to, like, different areas of church history, but from a biblical perspective and just from kind of like an agrarian perspective. But as you got older and you no longer had the capacity to do the things, you might be going blind but you could sharpen the tools or Mhmm.

Greg [00:22:46]:
You know

Dave [00:22:46]:
what I mean? Or you can maybe help stomp the grapes, I don't know, maybe that's a bad metaphor but bad example. But you would be a part of things as long as you could be Mhmm. And then you would eventually get pneumonia and die or something.

Chad [00:22:59]:
I I think there's a couple things going on there. And I'm not terribly strong in this area myself, more of a student in history and psychological systems. But, you know, I mean, for 1, being old is a luxury, you know, looking looking through the mists of time and back into history.

Dave [00:23:16]:
Mhmm.

Greg [00:23:16]:
I

Chad [00:23:16]:
mean, the the people used to age out, as you say, in their mid forties.

Dave [00:23:21]:
Right.

Chad [00:23:21]:
That was pretty common, you know, between all the diseases and and just physically brutal type of, you know, existence people have had

Dave [00:23:30]:
throughout history. Life was short, hard, and miserable. Yeah.

Greg [00:23:35]:
You

Chad [00:23:35]:
know, being old was like, wow, how did you do that? You know, how did you get gray hair? I've heard of it before, but I've never actually seen it. You know, it seems like families used to have it used to be pretty common to have, like, your 3 generation excursion up the mountain

Greg [00:23:52]:
Mhmm.

Chad [00:23:53]:
Or through the trails or woods or whatever that was. I'm not trying to dissuade that or anything. That would have been more common back in the day. It wouldn't have been like, that one time all 3 generations were together.

Dave [00:24:05]:
Right.

Chad [00:24:06]:
It would have been, like, uncommon to be apart from each other.

Dave [00:24:09]:
Right. Because you were in the same community and Yeah.

Chad [00:24:12]:
Same household. Yeah. And I have to believe that type of family structure probably impacted the church as well.

Dave [00:24:18]:
Oh, yeah. Even in the church of Philippi. I mean, there was this whole scale conversion of a household. Right? Mhmm. And household didn't just include the physical descendants, it includes slaves and

Greg [00:24:29]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:24:29]:
Servants and, remember, right, people that worked in the household, maids or whatever you wanna yeah. Interesting. What's clear is that they they there was an expectation of not knocking off your parents.

Chad [00:24:45]:
Yeah. This is true. Very true.

Dave [00:24:48]:
And I'm I'm maybe it's too early to go there, but in terms of where our culture is headed, where it's arrived in some countries. Yeah. Where the amazing thing was, like, when I who what Kevorkian, was that doctor Death? That was doctor Death. And I wasn't even living in the same state. The state that he's in is the state that

Greg [00:25:13]:
What state was that?

Dave [00:25:16]:
The state that won them the Parcheesi match between

Greg [00:25:20]:
The game.

Dave [00:25:21]:
The game. Yeah. The game. The game. But I remember having conversations in high school about Kevorkian and saying, look, that's a slippery slope. If you if you create a culture where people are allowed to assist, that's not a big step away from assisted suicide in a more active sense where we are going to actively assist you, not help you, but we're going to help you die, and we all know what I mean by that. Right? So right? Wasn't Kevorkian from Michigan? Yes. Yes.

Dave [00:26:02]:
That's what I thought. Anyway, but I I remember having those conversations, like, hey, this is oh, that'll that's so not true. That's what are we what are we seeing now? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's what were you saying before the show, Greg, about the the parliament in Britain? Yeah.

Greg [00:26:20]:
In the UK, they, they just adopted assisted suicide legislation. And then right after they adopted it, they passed legislation. It's like the estate tax or something like that that that makes it there's a financial gain to die before you turn 75.

Dave [00:26:41]:
So they're actively encouraging people

Greg [00:26:44]:
to financially before you're 75 so your children don't have to pay the taxes on your estate.

Chad [00:26:50]:
That's so reprehensible. And it it's it's really in the face of the Bible. Right? Like

Dave [00:26:55]:
Mhmm.

Chad [00:26:56]:
You know, your white hair is your crown and and, you know, you you need to revere the elderly and listen to them and take care of them versus, just try not to trouble anybody on your way out.

Dave [00:27:07]:
Right. I mean, at that point, you're really not very far from, hey, we're gonna have a board that decides that you're gonna like, we're we're getting close to Soylent Green.

Chad [00:27:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. Google it. I prefer Logan's Run.

Dave [00:27:21]:
Okay. Okay. Which was released the

Chad [00:27:25]:
same year Star Wars was? That's a classic.

Dave [00:27:29]:
Yeah. That's a little bit the same actor what was his name? Don't say it. He was, you'll pry this from my cold dead hands. You darn dirty apes. That's right. Yeah. Charlton Heston. Charlton Heston.

Dave [00:27:42]:
So don't don't force me to commit suicide because I can remember Charlton Heston.

Chad [00:27:47]:
Did you ever see Logan's Run?

Dave [00:27:48]:
I did. A long time ago.

Chad [00:27:49]:
Okay. Because that's the one where

Dave [00:27:51]:
They're all underground. Right? Yeah.

Chad [00:27:53]:
They're all underground. And at age 30, you get to ascend Yes. And everybody's cheering, and you watch all these people get vaporized at the top of the little silo, and you're like, this is terrifying. But everyone thinks, oh, they're going up to the next level. And they've been told the surface is a radioactive wasteland, but Usually? Yeah. But it's not anymore. But the bottom line is everybody you just die when you're 30.

Dave [00:28:17]:
It just that what is it about that era where every oh, because the fear of nuclear war. Yeah. Yeah. Everything was about post apocalyptic. No. But I I think the Bible is clear in terms of sanctity of life. Right? Yeah.

Chad [00:28:32]:
Alright. So I do know that my oldest son, next week, has a piano concert at a home. He's not really looking forward to it, but I'm hoping, Greg, it's something like what you had with the youth where we'll get there and I mean, something about that human contact where these people are just so happy to see you and Right. Appreciate your time and appreciate your talents in a way that is uncommon these days.

Greg [00:29:01]:
Yeah. So another thing about caring for the elderly, and you you started to mention it, Dave, when you talked about talking to the person who had been in the military.

Dave [00:29:11]:
Mhmm.

Greg [00:29:11]:
So when we think of the elderly now, who who are the elderly now, I think of, like, the boomers are really approaching the elderly. Mhmm. And 40% of that of the men in that generation served in the military. That's the statistic. Right. 40% of them. And, and it's because of Vietnam and because of the draft. And there's some differences with that generation to the generation that fought in the 2 world wars.

Greg [00:29:41]:
The generations that fought in the 2 world wars came back, they were heroes. Those who fought in Vietnam and who came back, they were not celebrated as heroes. Right. They were they were screamed at. They were called baby killers, child killers. They served their country the same way. They followed orders the same way. A lot of them were drafted, but many of them signed up the same way.

Greg [00:30:10]:
I talk to men and, and I hear I hear a lot of men because that's one of the things that I ask when I meet any older person, but I say, did you serve in the military? And I hear a lot of men who'll say, no. I didn't. My brothers did, but I was the one that stayed home to work the farm. Because that I I don't know what what exactly the rules were. Like, they didn't draft every single male Yep. Because some could stay and serve the farm. Or, like, I broke my leg when I was 8 years old, and I couldn't I just I tried to sign up, but I was a little bit lame in my left leg. Had a farming accident, and I couldn't see out of my left eye or whatever.

Greg [00:30:52]:
I tried to sign up. But then I, but then there are other people who did serve, and they weren't celebrated. So they're so they they watched the generation before them celebrated as heroes. They watched the generation after them because those who served in Desert Storm and Iraq have been celebrated as heroes. And they're, like, really lost, and and that's why they're the forgot it's the forgotten war, the forgotten year. And it's really different. And you have to be careful when you're talking to people who served in the military, how you talk to them. You really need to let them lead because some people don't wanna talk about it.

Greg [00:31:31]:
Yep. Because they have done they have seen or done things. Yeah. Right. Some people just don't ever wanna talk about it again. So I say, did you serve in the military? And sometimes I get, yeah, but I don't ever wanna talk about that. And right there, subject gets changed and we won't ever talk about it again. But if they say yes, you say, well, what branch did you serve in? And they'll tell you what branch and you thank them for serving.

Greg [00:32:02]:
And then you ask, what job did you do? And if they're in the navy, they tell you what they did. If they're in the army, the air force, they tell you what they did. You never ever ever ask if they killed somebody. Never ever ask that question. But just ask them ask them where they were stationed. Ask them where they have been. Because I've had men tell me about being going through the Panama. I remember one man told me he was, stationed at the Panama Canal while it was being built.

Greg [00:32:34]:
Wow. And and then he left. I can't remember if he I can't can't remember what branch he was in, but he always wanted to go back. And when he retired, he took his wife on a cruise through the Panama

Dave [00:32:48]:
Canal. That's cool. Nice.

Greg [00:32:49]:
And that was, that was something that he did. And just listening to their stories is a way of honoring them and showing respect to them and, letting them tell it at their pace, what they wanna tell. Yeah. Letting them share it. But it is really a way to honor them.

Dave [00:33:05]:
1st good stuff of the night. Because

Greg [00:33:09]:
and, again, those that served in Vietnam, it is it is different than those who served in like, war is war. Yep. But they were treated different than those who served in World War 2 and those who went to Iraq and Desert Storm. And, everything before and everything after, they're just treated different. And it's a shame.

Dave [00:33:30]:
It is. I think I think it's not only is it honoring, but I think it's also wise just to ask what they think about things, ask their opinion on things because they're they've lived so much longer and they can process they come at things sometimes from a different angle, but they can give you a different perspective.

Greg [00:33:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. And then when when someone's getting getting really old and their their abilities are starting to really wane, just be just be slow with them. Like, just be patient. Yeah. If it takes them time to answer, let them answer. Mhmm. If it takes them time to get up, give them the time that it takes.

Greg [00:34:12]:
If it takes them time to, like, give them that time because they don't like being rushed, hurried. If they're struggling to hear, be patient. Yeah. Repeat yourself. Don't comment on the TV being too loud. That's their world.

Chad [00:34:31]:
Real quick, it sounds like you need a bracelet to keep all this straight, like, WWJD, what would Jill do?

Dave [00:34:41]:
Oh, jeez. That was brutal.

Chad [00:34:43]:
I don't know if that's standard or not, but I

Greg [00:34:46]:
I think that could stay in. Yeah.

Chad [00:34:49]:
Yeah. Alright. But, no, that's all very good advice because you can get you can get frustrated. Right? Especially if you're unprepared for it, you know, answering the same thing 2 or 3 times or having to speak louder than your

Dave [00:35:00]:
Sorry. What was that again? Oh

Chad [00:35:02]:
my gosh.

Dave [00:35:05]:
Speak up there, Chad.

Chad [00:35:07]:
I'm just gonna mute your mic for a while.

Dave [00:35:10]:
No. I actually have something too to say after this. Okay. Finish your thought, though.

Chad [00:35:13]:
But no. No. No.

Dave [00:35:14]:
But louder

Chad [00:35:14]:
for me. Oh, gosh. It it can feel a little unnatural to speak louder than you're used to or or repeat yourself or or have to wait or or things, but it is worth it ultimately. They do have valuable things to tell you and and you're making a valuable contribution to their life that is probably pretty rare for them. Yeah. Mhmm. So, yes, Dave?

Dave [00:35:37]:
1 and this is a a very serious contribution here, but I think one of the things when I was younger is I I was I wasn't always quick to hear what an older believer thought about something. Mhmm. And then I got very convicted when I read well, I'd read it my whole life, but it struck the significance of this struck me. But if you look at Hebrews 5 verse 14, but solid food is for the mature who because of practice have their senses trained to distinguish between good and evil. Right? Mhmm. And I realize that's not talking just about physical age, but there's a maturity level to that too. Mhmm. But basically says, look, young believers are not going to have the same ability to distinguish between good and evil.

Dave [00:36:23]:
And so even if, let's say, I end up not agreeing with an older believer, I try to show enough deference to take what they're saying seriously and at least consider really hard deeply consider deeply what they're saying because it could be that because of their practice, their senses are more trained to to distinguish between good and evil. The older I get, the more I wanna quote that to people. Just kidding. Listen here, Sonny. Listen here, Sonny. I distinguish between good and evil by practice. So but but I but I do think that's a serious thing. Yeah.

Dave [00:36:58]:
Right? We have we have a culture that really doesn't want to hear what anybody past 28 says. Yeah. And I I don't know about you, but I'm at the point now where if a 21 year old says something and tries to pontificate, I just kinda go, yeah, just wait till you've lived a few more years, son. Yeah. That's what I feel like telling him.

Greg [00:37:19]:
You and James Carville.

Chad [00:37:22]:
One thing that I found very interesting, one of the biggest movies of the last 10 years was Top Gun Maverick. And I think there was some universal truth in there that spoke to young and old together because it wasn't about how, you know, all the young pilots were just gonna show the the old guy all the new tricks. The old guy showed up and he showed the young people, here's here's how we do this this, you know, he may not be the fastest or the the quickest quickest on his feet anymore and yet he knows a thing or 2 because he's seen a thing or 2. And I think there was some old people like that movie, young people like that movie. And I think there's some universal truth there in that that young people just kinda like, yeah. Yeah. We do need a little something to Wow.

Dave [00:38:10]:
Good good for you watching that movie for for thoughtfulness. And really, like, I think I maybe it was because I was so tired. But I watched the movie and it was like, yeah. This is just Top Gun recycled. But I never really but I never really walked away thinking about that. Mhmm. Probably because I fell asleep halfway through

Chad [00:38:28]:
the movie. Warm milk with your popcorn is a mild combination.

Dave [00:38:33]:
I didn't really fall asleep. I know, dude. But it was I was just setting up Craig, and he didn't take it. He's looking like he wanted to, but he he knows his 2 joke limit tonight.

Chad [00:38:42]:
I I value

Dave [00:38:43]:
He knows his 2 joke limit. So

Chad [00:38:45]:
I just burned my second one. I just used the warm milk with popcorn jokes. So

Dave [00:38:49]:
Yeah. Good for you, Greg. I'm proud of you.

Greg [00:38:52]:
Oh, it's okay.

Dave [00:38:53]:
He's holding back. He's holding he still wants to say something, but he's being good. Anyway, yeah, I really do think that there's there's something to be said for, at the very least listening and trying to put a lot of weight on the fact that a mature elder believer is saying something. Yeah. And even if you end up saying, well, I think that's based on different presuppositions or I still wanna try to give deference and say, okay, maybe this is a silly illustration but so my family was you don't say the substitute swear words. Oh, gosh darn. Right. Right.

Dave [00:39:31]:
And this podcast would get in trouble. We we just yeah. Not just for that, but we we say a lot of substitute swear words.

Chad [00:39:38]:
It's a pee pee soaked heccle heckle in here.

Dave [00:39:42]:
You really would get in trouble. I know. Yes. So but anyway, so one time my son was saying a lot of substitute swear words. Mhmm. A member of my family, and they were like, would you stop doing that? And that's you know, you're just substituting. And my son was just, like, gobsmacked because he had no idea, like, what this guy I'm

Greg [00:40:04]:
just doing what daddy does.

Dave [00:40:08]:
And so I just stopped and I just thought, okay, how do I handle this in a way that doesn't throw me under the bus or my the person who's talking about

Chad [00:40:19]:
it? Mhmm.

Dave [00:40:19]:
And I just said, well, that was my dad. So I just said, hey, dad, we don't really make a big deal out of that, but here's, then I said to my son, but here's what I want you to do. I'm on your grandfather. Let's honor him by not trying not to do that. And they both were like, okay. That's fair.

Chad [00:40:38]:
Yeah. I was like, whew. Bought myself some time there. Gosh darn it.

Dave [00:40:45]:
Yeah. I don't know. It was just one of those moments where you're like, I'd like, how do you handle that? You just do your best, but it was it was a way to try to show difference to my to my dad.

Chad [00:40:55]:
Yeah. Do we wanna talk about assisted suicide anymore? Or

Greg [00:40:59]:
No. I don't wanna talk about that. It's wrong. Dark.

Chad [00:41:02]:
It's bad. Bad. It's bad.

Dave [00:41:04]:
Don't do it.

Greg [00:41:06]:
If you, are out there thinking that it's okay, you know, you wanna argue with us, send an email to the fish at catfishministries Yep. And, and Dave will answer you. Yeah. Set you straight. No. We'd love to have a discussion with you about it.

Chad [00:41:23]:
Yeah. We actually would. Yeah.

Greg [00:41:24]:
Yeah. So Send us your questions about that.

Chad [00:41:27]:
Yeah. Stump us. Yeah. Stump the chumps.

Greg [00:41:31]:
So thinking about caring for the elderly, I had this discussion with my yeah, my brother doesn't listen to this. Oh, go ahead.

Chad [00:41:40]:
Not not yet. So years from now

Dave [00:41:44]:
Yeah. He's gonna find this.

Greg [00:41:45]:
You know, you think about experiences that you have in parenting, and then you you start thinking about what your parents might have gone through in parenting you, and you start to put yourself in another role. And and I just remember at at when my when my brother had 2 very, very young children, very, very young children. And at one point, I just said to him, do you remember when you found out that you guys were pregnant and you're like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this, and I don't I don't know how I could love something. And but then, like, you fell in love with the idea, and and you didn't even see them yet. And you already loved twins. Mhmm. And you already loved them. And, like, you already had names, and you loved them before they were even born.

Greg [00:42:33]:
And you already had this deep and incredible love for them. And then they were born, and and you never thought you could love them anymore. And all of a sudden, you loved them more. And then that love just grows more and more. And, like, after a year, you're like, I didn't know I could love them any more than I did, and I I love them more. And as the years go by, you love them more and more and more and more. And I said to him, you realize that that that's the way dad feels about you? Mhmm. And, and he was just like, woah.

Greg [00:43:07]:
Mhmm. And and your parents like, whether you're a teenager and your parents are just in their forties or whether you're 40 and your parents are in their seventies or like, your parents still have this incredible love and they still have this value. And and now you put yourselves in their shoes with all this experience that you now have that you can kinda share with where they've been

Dave [00:43:34]:
Mhmm. And

Greg [00:43:37]:
and really start to to honor them. For me, what's what that's meant is, like, I can never get along perfectly with my dad. I'm not saying that there's that there's a big problem there. It's just that there's just little tiny things. Like, there's all there always are between a father and son. But in the grand scheme of things, they just become smaller and smaller and smaller. Mhmm. And as time goes by, those little things that they used to just be a big issue, it's just, like, so insignificant now.

Greg [00:44:15]:
And and, and I just think about that as as my dad. He he's my dad's still independent. He drives to Florida, lives down there for 5 months, has his own place, climbs up on the roof and patches it and everything. And and, but he's 75, and he's not gonna live forever. And, eventually, he's either gonna slow down or something's going to happen that will make him slow down really fast. Mhmm. And, and you you just have in the in the back of your mind thinking, how are you going to how am I going to honor him and, and care for him Yeah. When that time comes? Yeah.

Greg [00:45:00]:
And and it's it's being respectful and, and remembering who he is, remembering who the elderly are, that they still have value. Yeah. And and in the same way, somebody who has a handicap, you don't treat them as less than. You you they're still productive members, yet yet it seems like, the older members of our society, suddenly we start talking down to them. Oh, sweetie. Let me help you with that. You wouldn't do that to a 40 year old coworker who's in a wheelchair. No.

Greg [00:45:39]:
You wouldn't do that. Why do we do that to the elderly?

Dave [00:45:42]:
Right. It's it's the it's the you give the bare minimum help just enough to let them do what they can do.

Greg [00:45:55]:
Mhmm.

Dave [00:45:56]:
That's the kind of rule of thumb. Right? So in other words, if they need a push of £3 worth of weight, then you don't give them £5 worth of push. Dumb metaphor, but it works, I hope. Yeah. Right? It's the bare minimum aid that they need to keep as independent as they can. It's kind of the way that I think about it.

Chad [00:46:16]:
Mhmm. Yeah.

Greg [00:46:18]:
But then as a church, you know, we we prepare people for these milestones in life. We invest in a a youth pastor to help people transition through the teenage years into adulthood, and we create, financial planning classes to help people get through those important milestones. We have when a couple is going to get married, you typically have some kind of marriage marriage preparation class that is 6 to 8 weeks. Mhmm. You have a a marriage weekend that you sponsor every single year in your church, marriage conferences that you send people to, what do we do for for aging, for preparing to die, for preparing to go to heaven, for winding down? What do we do for that as a church?

Chad [00:47:11]:
Way back in the day, at my church that I got saved at, there was a thriving and amazing seniors ministry, and it was maintained by early in by early middle age and middle age people, and a few college kids would come in and help out every now and then. And it was amazing. It was thriving. They would do Thursday Thursdays, they would do soup and salad. One one Thursday a month, they would do soup and salad, and they would have someone from the community come in, perhaps another retiree or someone, you know, would demonstrate something, and it was really, really great. And that's the only place and the only time I've ever seen it done right, and it's gone now.

Greg [00:47:55]:
Yeah. And and then,

Chad [00:47:56]:
Because there's nothing in most churches.

Greg [00:47:58]:
Right. And and then I think, like, the the the well-to-do people in churches Mhmm. The people who, have retired middle class, who have the 401 k, who have good insurance, and they've they've had all the tools that they need, they're all set. They've done financial planning and they've done estate planning and they probably has set have set up a trust, and they they have every they know what they're doing. So why does the church need to do anything for them? Because they've got everything taken care of. But what about all the the working class families you have and single parent families and that that when they get to the end of life, they're left with the social workers of the hospitals and hospice agencies to help them sort out all of their affairs at the end of life. Yeah. Why hasn't the church stepped in and taken care of those thing helped them navigate those things ahead of time before it gets to that crisis?

Chad [00:48:58]:
Do you want the honest answer or the incredibly cynical Gen X answer?

Greg [00:49:03]:
Well, the the cynical Gen X answer is usually pretty honest.

Chad [00:49:07]:
Yeah. My cynical Gen X answer is gonna be residual effects of the Church Growth Movement Because I participated in and I saw it happen where church after church said, we're gonna grow the church and there's our target demo, 25 to 50. And that's who we're here for, and that's what we've designed the worship for.

Dave [00:49:30]:
Just like the ratings in TV?

Chad [00:49:31]:
Yep. And that's what we've designed everything around and

Greg [00:49:35]:
We don't care about anything but 25 to 50, so seniors, you're on your own.

Chad [00:49:39]:
Yeah. Do seniors give a lot?

Greg [00:49:43]:
Yeah. I have a very

Dave [00:49:44]:
that's an interesting question because I I think it's I'm not saying this in a disparaging way, but I think it's easy to think that as a very, very you know, being in a very upper middle class community. Mhmm. So the churches that I grew up in and around, to be honest, I'm not sure the leadership of the church, I. E. The pastors, were equipped to even think about that because they didn't do it themselves. Like, there's an ignorance. Like, I don't I mean, trying to be as generous as I can in terms of how I say it. I'm trying to say that term as neutrally as I can.

Dave [00:50:19]:
Of course. But there was a I think there was a real ignorance. I mean, a lot of them were told, look, you serve the Lord and the Lord will take care of you. And that was an excuse for churches to not take care of your retirement. So a lot of them were. So yeah. And I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that's probably true for some groups. In other groups, I think there's probably just a complete ignorance of of that.

Dave [00:50:44]:
Yeah. And But

Chad [00:50:45]:
I I guess I'm just kinda picturing the Joel Osteen, the cookie cutter Mhmm. Mini mega churches all over the countryside. I see

Dave [00:50:52]:
what you're saying.

Chad [00:50:53]:
They it it wasn't part of the design, it wasn't part of the model, it wasn't part of the package that they built the thing out of.

Greg [00:51:00]:
Right.

Chad [00:51:00]:
And so it just never happened.

Dave [00:51:03]:
Yeah. And even even for those communities, and I'm kinda taking a slight turn here, but even in those communities where the people have the trust and have the the wills and all that stuff settled, have we dealt with dying gracefully? And it's from a spiritual perspective either. Do you know what I mean?

Chad [00:51:26]:
Yeah. I'm gonna say absolutely not.

Dave [00:51:28]:
Right. And that that's that's something that you've got my brain, like, wrapped up.

Greg [00:51:33]:
Because then could that I was gonna go there because then that's the other part of it is the the dying gracefully, being secure, know where you're going, wanting to go there so that when you get to these decisions, like, do you fight to live forever, or do you accept death? Because I see a lot of I have seen many Christians who fight to live forever and live miserably for the last portion of their life because it seems like they're just trying to live forever.

Dave [00:52:12]:
What? Like like doing medical procedures that Yeah. Mean that they don't need to do? Or Mhmm. Yeah. Mhmm. Like, I'm I'm I'm So that's an interesting yeah. Yeah. If this was more of a philosophical discussion, I would start to push you on that starts to sound like you're pushing towards assisted suicide. I know you're not I know you're not saying that.

Chad [00:52:34]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:52:34]:
But, I mean, there's right? That starts to go, okay. How much? Like, I I agree that there's some sense in which technology has made it possible for us to extend life beyond right? There's nothing that says you have to take every medical procedure that's out there. Mhmm. So we're make and I know you know. I know this about you, and I there's no way you're even talking about moving towards assisted suicide, but I think you have a legitimate point.

Greg [00:53:01]:
I'm I'm talking about, like, when you're 85 years old, why you're deciding to pursue an aggressive form of chemotherapy. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Right.

Dave [00:53:09]:
Yeah. Oh, no. I look. My dad, if you hear this, I don't think it'll hurt your feelings from me saying this. My dad is in hospice. Yeah. He could have taken aggressive form of therapy that may or may not extend his life by a year

Greg [00:53:27]:
Right.

Dave [00:53:27]:
Maybe less, maybe more. And he was like, you know, I think I'm ready to see Jesus. Now he's in hospice, but he's he might live another 5 years. Sure. We don't know.

Chad [00:53:39]:
Yeah.

Dave [00:53:39]:
Right. Or he could, like, get an infection and die tomorrow. Right. So but I agree with you. That was a choice that he made, and it was not it was a choice of, okay, do I continue to make my life miserable so I can live in misery longer, or do I live out my life comfortably in in good fellowship with my it's a tacky way of saying that. But in in joyful fellowship with my wife, I can still live together with her Yeah. Even as I'm in hospice. Mhmm.

Dave [00:54:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's very that's very well said.

Chad [00:54:17]:
Yeah. Yeah. And that is a piece that I thought about touching on but didn't really, but, yeah, the technological piece. I mean, you you can go full blown Frankenstein and hook yourself up to a lot of different stuff to keep certain functions of your body moving well beyond what they probably should. Yeah. So and I would be very I I think I'm with you, Greg. I would be rather disturbed if, you know, someone was going through those kind of measures at that late stage in life. I mean, you know, I'm not I'm not casting judgment on anyone that would, but, you know, from my own standpoint, you know, I have a, a bovine heart valve diligently doing its job within me.

Chad [00:55:03]:
It should be good for 15 to 20 years. And then after that, I can get another one, and then probably one more after that. Each of those will be good for 10 to 15 years, which would put me into my mid eighties. And then after that,

Dave [00:55:20]:
it's a good run. Let's get moving on. That's right.

Greg [00:55:25]:
Hopefully hopefully, the next one, they'll have been able to 3 d print one from stem cells that Oh, yeah.

Dave [00:55:32]:
Let's just make sure we get them from the right place.

Chad [00:55:35]:
That's right. No pigs. Porcine. But and I guess this is kinda becoming an end of life discussion at this point. But, I mean, at some point, you kinda you kinda gotta come to grips with, you know, the party comes to an end for everybody.

Greg [00:55:53]:
So Yeah. Yeah. But and but, no, it's not the party comes to an end. The party gets

Chad [00:56:00]:
to a better venue.

Dave [00:56:01]:
We graduate. Right. Yes. Yeah. The believers, we graduate.

Greg [00:56:05]:
Yeah. You leave the practice field Right. And head to the game. Oh.

Dave [00:56:11]:
Oh, nice callback. Parcheesi. Thanks for that second callback. Mhmm.

Greg [00:56:21]:
Oh,

Chad [00:56:21]:
do we wanna go anywhere else? Or

Dave [00:56:24]:
no. No. I think that I I think, yeah, no. I think we fit things from all sorts of angles.

Chad [00:56:32]:
Yeah. Okay. So any practical application that we should consider as we wrap this up? Just Just makes me

Dave [00:56:41]:
wanna call my dad a little bit more than I do.

Chad [00:56:44]:
Yeah. If you got a mom, if you got a dad, if they're kinda old, be glad you got them.

Dave [00:56:49]:
Yeah.

Chad [00:56:50]:
That's one thing. And then if you have an older person in your life, even if it's a chore or a pain or whatever else, please make some time to see them and listen. Let it be its own reward.

Dave [00:57:00]:
Yeah.

Greg [00:57:01]:
Ask your church leaders what are we doing to honor the older people in our church. And then I know that today I was not telling Dave jokes to honor the older people in my midst.

Dave [00:57:12]:
You've been saving that one for this whole time, haven't you?

Chad [00:57:15]:
That threaded the needle in such a passive aggressive way. I don't know you even know if I could count it as 1. I I

Dave [00:57:21]:
I almost feel like giving that one a standing ovation, Craig.

Chad [00:57:24]:
My goodness. That was

Greg [00:57:25]:
Let me help you out.

Dave [00:57:28]:
That was 3.

Chad [00:57:29]:
Sorry. Trump level trolling right there. Wow.

Dave [00:57:37]:
Trump level trolling.

Chad [00:57:38]:
Yep. We go for 13 minutes without an incident. And then at the very end, the trainwreckiest trainwreck that is possible. That

Dave [00:57:48]:
was good.

Chad [00:57:50]:
Masterclass, sir. Yes, welcome. I salute you. You're welcome. In case

Greg [00:57:55]:
you can't see, I'm tipping my hat to you, Dave.

Chad [00:58:01]:
Alright. Well, if you liked what you heard, if you didn't like what you heard, drop us a line, the fish at catfishministries.com. The fish at catfishministries.com.

Dave [00:58:10]:
And Greg will answer right away.

Chad [00:58:11]:
Yes. Greg

Greg [00:58:12]:
Sure. Dave

Chad [00:58:13]:
Yep. We all just Yep. Diligently read this.

Dave [00:58:16]:
The fish will answer right away.

Greg [00:58:17]:
Whether I'm showering, driving, whatever,

Dave [00:58:20]:
I'll be

Chad [00:58:20]:
As soon as it comes in.

Greg [00:58:21]:
I'm I'm on it.

Chad [00:58:22]:
Yep. We get our spectacles out, and we read these things.

Greg [00:58:29]:
That would that sound was Dave's glasses hitting the, yeah.

Chad [00:58:34]:
Alrighty. Thanks for being with us, and do something nice for an old person. Get catfished, America. Thanks for joining us at Catfish Ministries. We hope you learned something with us and maybe had a laugh or 2 while you're at it. Please subscribe and leave a 5 star review. If you really like what you heard and wanna help us make more of these, look us up on buy me a coffee.com. We can't wait to talk to you again next time.

Chad [00:59:12]:
This is Chad for Greg and Dave signing off and saying remember America, it's always a great day to get catfished.