He Gets Us

It's the morning after the big game and we take a look at one of the most widely spread efforts to share the Christian faith in the modern west - He Gets Us.  We take some time to examine the message, the messenger, and the potential effectiveness of this outreach campaign.  Who is 'He'?  What is there to get?  Who are we?

Thank you for listening!

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Transcript

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Chad:
If my calculations are correct, you are listening to this shortly after the Super Bowl. Mhmm. A contest in which the battle the to win the title. I'll dub those in later.

Dave:
I'll After after you know who won it? Yeah. Yeah. There you go. That was good. Give the score while you're at it. Where are we going? The DEI question. I just I just have a question that we need to talk about this because DEI for those of you who are listening, yester yeah. Yesterday was the day that as we're recording this, yesterday was the day that president Trump put a nail in the coffee of federal DEI programs.

Chad:
Yes.

Greg:
Yeah. So I only have a and I know technically we're not a federal program. Right. But it

Chad:
wasn't just that. It was it was there's also an executive order banning DEI. So DEI can't be used in the workplace at all. Anyway say that? Yes. Really?

Greg:
Well, that puts us in trouble because when

Dave:
you are DEI hire Well, yep. So You're a Canadian representative. Well,

Greg:
I mean, you're good. So that's you were hired on your merit and your Right. Status. So what are we gonna do?

Chad:
Well, if if we wanna go to merit based, then we could just look at our credentials. And since my credentials institution is still standing.

Greg:
That's true. Yeah. Except, I mean, I I still can get my transcripts from Liberty. So

Chad:
Liberty, Liberty, Liberty.

Greg:
Yeah. Not that one.

Chad:
Liberty. Oh, yeah. The

Greg:
other one.

Dave:
Not that one? Okay.

Greg:
The Falwell Liberty.

Dave:
It might have been better.

Greg:
It might have. No. This I don't know. That's kind of a powerhouse institution down there now. But I'm I'm not just for the record, I'm not alumnus of that

Dave:
fine, fine institution. You know, my, my accrediting body would also be available for my transcripts, provided the president was sober, and we did not try to get them on the weekend.

Greg:
The president was well, you had a drunk president at the university? It was such a party school, but the president was drunk too? Yeah. What's the body president, I take it? Not that not

Chad:
that No.

Dave:
All of them.

Greg:
All of them.

Dave:
Okay. Everyone above a certain level. It's just It's true. All the time. Yep. Yeah. What'd you say, Greg? You can see that? Yeah.

Chad:
I drive by that campus, at least once a week.

Dave:
Apologies if you have to drive by on a Monday morning. It's pretty

Greg:
pretty ugly.

Chad:
Well, and since you've been a student there, in in our state, they've, legalized recreational marijuana use, and there are a plethora of, provisioning storefronts.

Greg:
Right close to the university. Oh, very close to

Chad:
the university. Oh, yeah. So and and, your motto, fire up,

Greg:
Oh, man.

Chad:
Has taken on a new meaning.

Dave:
I'll bet it is.

Greg:
Fire up.

Chad:
Do I

Greg:
do we say it?

Dave:
Yeah. We can say it.

Greg:
Fire up chips.

Dave:
Fire up.

Chad:
Yeah. It was taking on a new meaning.

Dave:
Yeah. Because, like, when I was there, fire up might get excited and then the chips was, like, named for the local Native American tribe.

Chad:
Yep.

Dave:
But now the chips is like a stack of poker chips for the casino. No.

Chad:
Fire up is now A blunt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I'm

Greg:
sorry. What's a blunt?

Dave:
Oh, my goodness. Me asks. What a bad one.

Greg:
Me asks knowingly.

Dave:
Me asks. So, what do we decide on Greg? Well, as

Greg:
far as I'm concerned, his dual citizenship is enough to for and his and his high quality work

Chad:
is enough

Greg:
to merit his thing. How about this?

Dave:
If the new president's death squads do not, extradite him, we will keep him on. And

Greg:
will you go home if Pierre Polio becomes your prime minister? Will that be enough to draw you back to the land

Dave:
of your father's pride? To the land of syrup and leaves?

Chad:
Probably not.

Dave:
Yeah. Okay. America's got it pretty good. America.

Greg:
Yeah. He's totally American now.

Chad:
They got a lot of work to do on guns in Canada. I was gonna say, that's Yeah. I can't take those across the border into Canada. Sir, what's in that large trailer behind you, It's just maple syrup.

Dave:
Maple syrup. This is fun.

Greg:
Ketchup chips too.

Chad:
Right? Ketchup chips.

Dave:
This is fun. I had, I had lunch with someone at my place of employment, and this person works in a Canadian office. And at one point, during lunch, everyone at the table starts talking about shooting at the shooting range. And everybody's talking about their nine millimeters and all this other stuff that they're doing. And I look over at this poor Canadian fella and he's just kind of like looking around with this glazed look on his face. And I said, hey. Just so you know, this is legal here. I'll remind you.

Dave:
He kinda chuckled and he's like, oh, yeah. And then we actually had an interesting conversation asking him, you know, if he was allowed to have a firearm or knew anyone that did. And he knew one person.

Greg:
Just one. Wow.

Dave:
Yeah. And apparently, it's pretty strict. You can have it in your home only, and you can put it in some special container and take it to a shooting range and use it there where you can take it out, and then you can put it right back in and take it back home and stow it. And that's it. And people from the government come and check on you every now and then, I guess, too. So

Greg:
It's good to be American.

Dave:
It really is. Yeah. What else is going on?

Chad:
I would like to congratulate the Ohio State University Oh. For overcoming so many obstacles this year. Yes. They are the first college football team to lose to their rival, to lose to an undranched team, and to not win their conference and still win the national championship. Yeah. They have overcome many things. So congratulations to the Ohio State University.

Greg:
Okay. Yeah. Being neutral on this question, I don't think that bothers them. I don't think it bothers them. Honest. But it is fun. It is a fun one.

Chad:
They they've done something no one else was able to do. Yeah.

Greg:
That's true. Did you

Chad:
see? They lost so much and still won.

Dave:
It's a Linkin Park song, isn't it?

Chad:
Didn't it?

Dave:
I like Linkin Park. Yeah. Now did you see the clip of the postgame press conference where, Ryan Day is in a golf cart?

Greg:
I did see that. Yeah.

Chad:
I I I went to bed. I I was tired. I knew they were gonna win. I went to bed. When they threw the Gatorade over his head, did the Sharpie wash out of his beard?

Dave:
No. It didn't. Yeah. It's, like, permanent now. So he's done. Something. I don't know.

Greg:
What like, I is that just, I don't I don't understand why people think that's funny that, like does he die does he really dye his beard, do you think? Is that what you're saying? Well, how old is he? He's younger than me. That's not

Dave:
hard. That's

Chad:
not hard.

Dave:
Okay. Yeah. I know

Greg:
a lot of coaches that are older than me, though.

Chad:
Okay. Uh-huh.

Greg:
I would guess he was about 50, maybe 45. He's 45.

Chad:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dave:
He's 45.

Greg:
But So that that the whole point is that he ties his beard. Is that what everybody's saying?

Dave:
Yeah. To have a beard that dark, naturally, at 45, the beard's the first thing to salt and pepper out.

Greg:
Mhmm. You know? Yep. As evidenced by my cotee.

Dave:
Yeah. That's just flat out gray.

Chad:
There's no pepper there.

Greg:
It's just complete salt. I'm yeah. And it looks dignified. Yeah. That's what my wife says. She's told me not to shave it. So Okay. There you go.

Dave:
Anyways, the point is, I'm betting Greg is probably right and we've got some Some dying going on. Yes, some artificial. Could be.

Greg:
I just I don't know. It's funny. I don't I would have never crossed my mind to I guess when you're looking for stuff to make fun, that's easy.

Chad:
Easy target. And you can just go back since the, you know, the whole playoff thing has started. And

Greg:
Mhmm.

Chad:
There have been teams that, like, have lost a game before. There have been teams that have not won their conference before, but never won that has hit the trifecta like Yeah. Ohio sorry. The Ohio State.

Dave:
Yeah. Now has anyone ever won the national title and lost two games?

Chad:
Because

Dave:
they lost two games. Yeah.

Greg:
Yeah. They have before.

Chad:
I don't I don't know that that's the case. According to Grok,

Dave:
it's been done twice. Once in 02/2007 by LSU and once in 2024, '20 '20 '5 by the Ohio State University. So definitely a rarity.

Greg:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dave:
But prior to 1998, it was almost always the undefeated team Yeah. That also won its bowl game and won its competition.

Greg:
Yeah. I remember those days.

Dave:
The late nineteen hundreds, they call them.

Greg:
It's funny. You know, when I by the time I left Japan yes. Go ahead and ring the bell now. I was I was I was born there. So I actually remember watching the Rose Bowl in Japan. Really?

Dave:
They have one over there too?

Greg:
No. The American Rose Bowl. Actually, so do you guys remember the name Charles White?

Chad:
I think so.

Greg:
He was the Heisman Trophy winning, running back from USC. And he was, like, everybody he was, like, the first draft pick, and he didn't pan out. Yeah. And because of that, I made this huge prediction. I was like 12 when I but I saw I remembered it and I was like, well, Marcus Allen was gonna be a wash up just like Charles White, Says Dave at, you know, 15 years old or whatever it was. And I was like, yeah, he's gonna be a wash up just like Charles White. And Hall of Famer.

Dave:
Yep.

Greg:
Good. My prognostication on sports has never been good.

Dave:
What do you do for a living again?

Greg:
I don't prognosticate for a living. I coach sport. Okay. Yeah.

Dave:
This sporting game. If my calculations are correct, you are listening to this shortly after the Super Bowl. Mhmm. A contest in which the battled the to win the title. I'll dub those in later. I

Greg:
After after you know who won it? Yeah. Yeah. There you go. That was good. Give the score while you're at it.

Dave:
Yeah. And by a final score of to to beat the spread of and win me amount of money.

Greg:
Yeah. And then and then you can somehow dub me into that and accuse me of betting on sports.

Dave:
Yes. Thanks for the tip, Dave.

Chad:
And it all hinged on the ref spots in that play. Yeah. Yeah.

Dave:
Yep. So yeah. I'm sure I'll go back and dub all that stuff in later.

Chad:
Okay.

Greg:
But yeah.

Chad:
Good.

Dave:
Anyways Do

Greg:
it really badly because there's a do it really poorly.

Dave:
Yeah. And, well and plus, this is a timeless episode, so we can just air this after every Super

Chad:
Bowl. Every Super Bowl.

Dave:
It does. Really. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be

Greg:
good. Re remaster it.

Chad:
So Well, and Yeah. Was it I don't know if I just saw it on Facebook, if it was like an NFL meme. I don't know if the Babylon Bee did it or NFL memes did it. But, because going into the AFC championship game, the refs have already penalized, the Buffalo Bills for, roughing the quarterback. Roughing the quarterback.

Dave:
That's right.

Chad:
Preemptively. Yep.

Dave:
There you go. Which which goes back to my my joke of Patrick Mahomes going, who touched the hem of my garment?

Chad:
Yes. Yeah. Okay. So,

Dave:
anyways, it's after the Super Bowl, and you no doubt saw the commercial, the big commercial that everyone's talking about. Right?

Chad:
Oh, yeah. There was a

Greg:
Oh, yeah. I saw it.

Chad:
There was a snack chip commercial

Dave:
Yep.

Chad:
And there was a an adult beverage commercial.

Dave:
Yep. There a Pepsi was in there. Pepsi

Greg:
There may have been some Clydesdales.

Chad:
Yep. Like the there were the Clydesdales. Yep. There was, like, a a stock trade commercial. Yes.

Dave:
Probably a crypto commercial or two.

Chad:
Mhmm.

Dave:
Yep. I mean, definitely a crypto commercial or two.

Chad:
I really I really liked what Trump did. Yes. Yeah. That was good.

Dave:
That was a nice touch. And the flyover, the planes and things.

Chad:
That was incredible. Amazing. The halftime

Greg:
show know the thing.

Dave:
Yeah. Yeah. And the the halftime show

Chad:
Oh, who's doing the halftime show this year?

Dave:
It's I

Greg:
mean, are you sure that was who did the halftime?

Chad:
Who did who who did it was,

Greg:
I don't I don't watch. I put on the gospel presentation during the Mhmm.

Chad:
Yeah. Yeah. Well Puppy

Dave:
bowl. I don't even know

Greg:
why we're laughing.

Dave:
Oh. So he gets us. We saw the commercial. It happens every year for how many years now?

Greg:
The

Dave:
last three or four years.

Chad:
Yeah. It's been a it's been a couple few.

Dave:
Yeah. Mhmm. So before we get into the nitty gritty of he gets us and what you saw in the commercial and everything else, I thought we might spend some time just figuring out what exactly this is trying to get at when it says he gets us. So who gets us and why?

Greg:
It's it's a bum we don't know the actual commercial that they're gonna show.

Dave:
Yeah. But, We know the commercial.

Greg:
Yeah. So Everything. Right. So, so some years and I since we don't actually know the exact commercial that's gonna be played, we can talk about, I suppose, some of the other ones. But, and a lot of them are quite edgy. In other words, they they seem to be provocative to try to force you to think and and kinda push you to one on one side or the other, almost push you to be, like, emotionally invested in it. Yeah. So I watched one in particular that's on their website, and it was a series of videos on discontent.

Greg:
And they went around walk talking to people and asking them what what are you sick of? And then throughout the four video series, they brought up the fact that Jesus talked to discontented people.

Chad:
Mhmm.

Greg:
And that, and then they went various places with it. But the point being that Jesus actually was there to help people out of their discontent. Mhmm. And, didn't really give specific answers other than Jesus was empathetic, in their words, curious about people Mhmm. And engage them in their discontent and then served as an example of helping people out of discontent by giving them some kind of generic solution. Right. Mostly engaging in conversation Yeah. With others.

Chad:
So I I like the I think of this in contrast to what I typically see if I get a mailing from a church. Mhmm. Like, come join us. And I think of what the family or what the people in that mailing are going to look like. Or if I'm scrolling through social media and I get, an ad for a church launch or a church in the area, and what the demographics of the people that they've chosen to put in that ad look like. And it's very cross generational, very multi ethnic, but very polished. Mhmm. Very well kept.

Chad:
Mhmm. Very I don't I don't I don't know that you can necessarily tell, like, how much money they have, but, not outcasts. Mhmm. Not poor. Yeah. Right. You it doesn't look like they're wealthy people in business suits, but just, you know, well put together people. Yeah.

Chad:
And you contrast that with the people you see in the He Gets Us campaign. Yeah. And it is outcast, downtrodden. Yep. It is people who typically make church people uncomfortable.

Dave:
Would agree.

Chad:
Yeah. And so I see that big contrast there. And I think that that's one of the things they're going for. I think they're trying to make people in the world in the world who don't feel like they fit in say you do fit in, but I think they're trying to make church people feel a little bit uncomfortable saying, hey, you're missing this group of people as well.

Dave:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I kinda I'm I'm going strictly from memory. Hats off to you, Dave, for going back and watching some of their previous commercials. I'm kinda going from memory. I remember a couple commercials where it was black and white, photos of outcast folks, angry folks, discontent folks.

Dave:
And they were still images, but they would kinda pan a little bit, like the Ken Burns kinda effect. And they had just kinda some quiet music playing, and then there'd be, like, some descriptions of what you were seeing. And then at the very end, there was the he gets us and then a website to go to. Yeah. I remember thinking I remember thinking it was an interesting contrast because you've got a football game with, you know, millions of dollars of athletes smashing into each other in a violent big hit, big play sport. You've got half the stars in Hollywood doing the pregame and halftime shows, and every commercial is a big spectacle. And then all of a sudden there's this kind of semi quiet calm little swath through there with the he gets us commercial and then it's back to the spectacle. So it it kinda struck me as a good attention getter.

Greg:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. And that I think to Greg's point, you know, Jesus hung out with the sinners and the publicans. And I remember one commercial, I think it was last year's Super Bowl, where they had a priest kneeling down and washing the feet of a clearly transgendered individual. Mhmm. And I know I I know personally a lot of people that were very offended by that. Yeah.

Greg:
And I yeah. We can talk more about that later. But, those last year, there was a whole bunch of kind of, like, typically considered holy people serving or ministering to people who looked down and out or what most church people would be considered sinners. Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's I love the fact that there's a lot of people that went to a website because of those commercials. Mhmm.

Greg:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think appropriately so. Yeah.

Chad:
Right.

Dave:
So, what's to get? Who's us?

Chad:
Well, I think one of the things that we have to look at is that, is they're trying to point to mankind here and and who we really are. And it's trying to show that, that we are all made in the image of God. Mhmm. When we when we see that contrast there and we see people that aren't like us, it makes us uncomfortable. But each one of those people are as much image bearers as we are. Mhmm. And and, I think in in this country, we are so divided on so many different things.

Greg:
Mhmm.

Chad:
And a lot of that has to do with the media. It it is just condition. They they sell division. Yep. Yeah. The media absolutely sells division. They make money off it. That's their their stick.

Chad:
They that's what they, they live off of, they thrive off of, and they make division. They they prosper off of division. It is so easy for us to look and and we're we so quickly divide on what we see, and that's why they throw in the commercial that has the transgender. And when we see what looks like the drug addict or they do the commercial that has the immigrant, the refugee, the undocumented. Mhmm. And and that causes strong reactions in us because of language that gets used. And and we're tempted to maybe make it political, to think of it politically. But regardless of how somebody got here, how somebody got in our midst, they are an image bearer, and we need to look at them that way.

Chad:
And, and and I'm not going to get into a political argument here of of any of that, but now they're an image bearer. And and if they're watching that commercial, they need to see that they're an image bearer and that that Jesus gets them.

Dave:
Mhmm.

Chad:
But they all we also need to see that as well and understand that as much as God loves us and died for us, he loves them and died for them as well. Yeah. They have as much, value and worth that as as we do. Mhmm. The, the the executive for the multibillion dollar company has as much value and worth as an image bearer of God as, fill in the blank. Yeah. Who's in that commercial there?

Greg:
Yep. Yep. We're all made

Dave:
in God's image. Indeed. Imagio Dei. Mhmm. That's it. It's said in the Greek.

Greg:
Sorry. It's Latin. Oh.

Dave:
That is Latin. No.

Greg:
Oh, you didn't know.

Chad:
You can edit that out.

Dave:
I will.

Greg:
While you're

Dave:
at it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I don't know what I did in my throat. Like I said, it's pretty bad. Yeah. So we're all made in God's image.

Dave:
And as we know from the Genesis account, everything was made good by God. But that's not how we live today. Right? You mentioned division. What else is going on that is part of the human condition?

Chad:
Well, it's not it the reason there's the division there is because sin entered the world. And now this is the the part that I that I believe, a lot of the world struggles with and a lot of the left, right, or the people the way people see the world differently, the the differences in world view, is that some people just don't wanna accept that sin is a reality. Yeah. And sin has entered the world. And it started with Adam and Eve. And, when they questioned God, did God really say? Yep. That was the that was the serpent's words in the garden. Yep.

Chad:
Did God really say? Yeah. And that's what man has been doing since then. Did God really say? Did God really say you can't do this? Did God really say you won't be happy if this? Did God really say fill in the blank on those things?

Dave:
Yeah.

Greg:
To say that from the human's perspective, right, we all wanna be our own law.

Chad:
Right.

Greg:
Right?

Dave:
Yeah.

Greg:
As the fall, we all decide that we would right? I'm sure we all know this, but the term autonomy, right, autonomy comes from two Greek words, autos, right, self, and nomos, which is law. And it's a what we call transparent etymology there where it's literally self law. We all wanna be self law. We all be wanna be self governed and we wanna repel against the rule that God rightly has over us. Right.

Chad:
Yeah. And so I think some people, you get into this issue then of judging and and what they're what they're trying to do with this he gets us campaign and, trying to get the church to understand, not to judge or to be more accepting and to be more embracing. And maybe some Christians think that they're better than others. And, the truth is is that every single one of us is a sinner by nature because of Adam's sin. Mhmm. That sin is imputed. It's we're we're born sinners. Yeah.

Chad:
Every single one of us is born sinner. By nature, we're sinners and by choice. We choose to sin. Every single one of us chooses chooses to sin. And and none of us are better than the other. And when when people start pointing the fingers and think, like, you think that you're so holy, I don't. I am as much a sinner as everybody else. And that makes God's grace seem that much greater that he would forgive me.

Chad:
And and so that's when I think about this campaign and he gets us, that is one of the things that things that he gets is that we are sinners. Every single one of us is a sinner. Yes. We're made in the image of God, but, yes, we are all sinners, every single one of us. And we are all as thoroughly sinful as we could be. It's not that we're all trying our best to not be sinful. We are all each thoroughly as thoroughly sinful as we could be. Yeah.

Chad:
There is none of us better than the other.

Greg:
Alright. So can I push you on your wording there just a little bit? We are all as thoroughly simple as as sinful as we could be seems to imply that every person as lives out full corruption to the max. And And I know I know you don't mean that. That's why I'm picking on the Right.

Chad:
No. Our our hearts our hearts are fully depraved.

Greg:
Yeah. So we're

Chad:
Our hearts are fully depraved. Yeah. But by the grace of God.

Greg:
Yeah. So we have common

Chad:
grace of God. Yes.

Greg:
Yeah. Sorry to pick on that, but I just knew some some of our listeners would would be like, yeah, I'm the first time I'm gonna write catfish because we're not No.

Chad:
Yeah. There is kind

Dave:
of grace.

Chad:
There there is nothing there is nothing better about me because I didn't fall into a life of being, male prostitute than somebody who did. Right. Like I'm I'm just as sinful.

Greg:
Yeah. Yep. We are totally fallen and we none of us can bring anything to God, right? Mhmm. That that's good enough to redeem. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Chad:
Thank you for clarifying that point.

Greg:
Yeah. Now, like, because I knew that's where you're going with it. I didn't but I, like, I really thought to myself, oh, I can see. Yeah.

Chad:
We're

Greg:
gonna get our first emails.

Chad:
We don't necessarily act on it, but, yeah, we're

Greg:
Right. Yeah.

Dave:
Oh, we got an email from last week's or from the last episode.

Greg:
Yeah. We didn't talk about that.

Chad:
We we

Greg:
will hit that later on. So yeah. That was good learning.

Dave:
It was. Yeah.

Greg:
So the human condition, why are we so bad? Like, why do some humans act so so corrupt? And why do some not? And why do some seem to have why do some people act out on some sins and some people seem to act out on others? And that's a setup question because I want I wanna think about why why everybody seems to be slightly different in their sinful patterns and why some people seem to be just so so corrupt. Because if you think about Romans, I think Romans one gives us the answer to that question. And part of the reason why you do have all the problems in the world, and they seem to be accelerating in some ways

Chad:
Mhmm.

Greg:
Are because of of the concept that Paul talks about in Romans chapter one. So, if, if I if I'm reading Romans one correctly in Romans one chapter excuse me. In Romans chapter one verse 18, it says the wrath of god is revealed from heaven against the and I'm paraphrasing here, the sinfulness and ungodliness of men who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness or suppress the truth in unrighteousness. And then it goes on to talk about what we would call natural revelation. Right? So the reason we need the righteousness of God, one sixteen and seventeen Mhmm. Is because we're all under the wrath of God, one eighteen. And one eighteen says the wrath of God is revealed. And then it says because of the unrighteousness that that men do.

Greg:
Right? Yeah. And then but he he then points out that, look, god unrighteousness that man shows is a direct act of rebellion against god because everyone has received knowledge about God. We call that natural or general revelation. Right? And that knowledge is so obvious from the world and through creation that it's like it's bubbling up. And he says that he's the righteousness of God is revealed against those who do these things, but it's because they suppress the truth. And that word literally is to hold it down. Mhmm. So there's this truth it's almost like this truth is bubbling up, this truth is bubbling up, this truth is bubbling up, and they they say, nope, I'm gonna suppress it, I'm gonna suppress it.

Greg:
And there's several things about that that knowledge that's shown. And that knowledge that's shown is it's that God exists and that he's due honor. Right. And we reject that by suppressing it. And what happens then is God gets tired of fighting that and he has a different set of patients for other whatever for people but and then he says look I'm gonna give you over to an unfit mind. Because they refused to honor God or worship him and give him the honors due, they gave that honor to the, right, to this, to the idols and to the worship of anything but God. So he says, alright. I'm gonna give you over to an unfit mind.

Greg:
And this is an important word in Romans. It's the word, unfit mind is the Greek word aducimus, nous. And nous is word for mind, but it's like thinking process.

Dave:
Okay.

Greg:
It's your mind in the sense of how it thinks and organizes things.

Dave:
Your intellect.

Greg:
Yeah. So you you and a kinda world view y kinda notion, like, how you process the world.

Dave:
Yeah.

Greg:
Right? And so he gives that over to an unfit mind. Now, the word noose or mind comes up one more time in the book, And it's in Romans twelve one and two, which we'll talk about in a second. So you are given over to this unfit mind or this ruined mind as it were. And because of that, he lets you go and you start running down this path and then he lists a whole bunch of sins. Some of them sexual, some of them is quote simple, I won't call it that, but, as simple as disobedient to parents, gossipers, right? And it gets so bad that not only do you do those things, you honor those, you know, you you celebrate those who do these sins. Yeah. Right? And so that's the condition. So as humans, not only have we rejected God and fallen, we not only were sinners by nature, but we're also the victim of our truth suppression where God says, okay, I'm giving you over to an unfit mind.

Greg:
It's a corrupted mind and you're just gonna run and you're gonna go follow your propensities. And for some, that's same sex attraction, home sexualities. For some, that's disobedient to parents at extreme level. Some, it's it's being a gospel or a thief or a right of murder. The cool thing is, what is the process of sanctification? Well, Romans twelve one and two says, we're supposed to be transformed by the renewing of our and that's the only other place that word is used, the nous. It's the renewing of our minds. And so part of the sanctification process, we come to Christ, he gives us a new spirit, he gives us he doesn't change everything about our thinking right away.

Dave:
Mhmm.

Greg:
But sanctification partially is changing our minds or a thinking process about life. Mhmm. And so there is a mental component, a thinking component, a worldview component to our sanctification that happens because we are being transformed as that mind is renewed in the image of God. So that's to go back to the human condition, part of why we're so corrupt in the world is because we're all victims of our own true suppression. Yeah. And that puts us in really, really bad state with God. Right. Which is why we're under God's wrath, which is why we need the righteousness of God to work our way backwards from to chapter one verses 16 to 17.

Greg:
The righteousness of God is revealed.

Dave:
Right. Or he gets us. So given given, what we've what we've kind of fleshed out here, mankind's intended design, where we're at right now, what is the intended message of he gets us? What what is what is this trying to accomplish, in the world that we find ourselves in?

Greg:
Sure. So I guess the question I have when we ask that is, okay, how do we judge that?

Chad:
Mhmm.

Greg:
Because I think if you just judge it by the commercial

Chad:
Mhmm.

Greg:
You really have no idea. Right? If in other words, if their intent is to get people to the website Right. That that's clear. Right? That's the one thing you can say from the commercials.

Dave:
Mhmm.

Greg:
Then it seems to me that where they go in the website or where they don't go in the website reflects their purpose or what is not their purpose. Right?

Dave:
Yep.

Greg:
And so I think their website really reveals what their long term goals are on that. Yep. And yeah. So that's I think I think the mistake that a lot of people make is trying to judge it by the commercial. Right. Because the commercial is just like the the the hook to try to get you to bite and get to the website. Now, you know, when you get to the website, now you gotta make a judgment about what their intent is.

Dave:
Right. And having gone to the website and had a couple of rodeos with web design and Mhmm. User interface design, I can tell you the whole thing is geared towards pushing you towards a bible reading plan Mhmm. Or a local alpha group. And if you're not familiar with alpha groups, this is a, bible curriculum, usually in 10 to 13 parts that's designed to take people with no biblical background and no biblical upbringing, and no scriptural knowledge and bring them, up to speed rather quickly in a way that is secular friendly, but is sharing a gospel message and and having a person understand what it means to have a relationship with Christ, what it understand what it understand what it means to be a Christian. So and I know there's a lot of different thoughts about Alpha. We'll get there. Yeah.

Dave:
We'll we'll get there. I've led three of these groups back in college, and I can tell you that each time we did it, we saw a person come to faith Mhmm.

Greg:
And it

Dave:
was a genuine lasting faith. I've come across these people sometimes years later and they were like, oh my goodness. I can't believe, you know, you're here. And they tell me their life story and and what happened after the group and Yeah. It's pretty amazing. So Yeah. I know it's not for everybody, so, but so, but that would seem to be the intent, would be to get people towards, the website. I kinda pick up a vibe of trying to humanize Jesus too to kind to kinda make him more relatable.

Dave:
Mhmm. But I don't know. That's that's more just kind of a vibe that I get. It's not like there's, like, an intent on the website or anything explicit in the commercial. It's just, like, a general feeling that that they're trying to humanize Jesus and make him more more at, quote unquote, our level.

Greg:
So the the and this is only one of many things I have on the website so I don't wanna generalize. But they had the series I watched that went on discontent.

Dave:
Mhmm.

Greg:
Where it ended up going was Jesus can help us because of his example and he can help us to be more empathetic and be understanding of other people and to help everybody in their discontent. Yeah. Quite generic and basically saying Jesus in this series, not saying the whole video or the whole website, but this series was Jesus is an example to help us all get along. Mhmm. It's fundamentally what they were saying.

Dave:
K.

Greg:
And it it really fell short in my book of really leading people to the gospel. Not to say that people couldn't go from there, but there was no real natural bridge. You could make a cut right there

Chad:
Mhmm.

Greg:
And say, walk away from he gets us, and you would have walked away thinking Jesus was a good example, and he's gonna be a peacemaker, and help me be a peacemaker because he's gonna help me be curious and sympathetic and and gracious. K. And that that's where that particular series went. And then it did describe some bible reading and have some other Mhmm. Suggestions, but it was never anything that really went to gospel. Gotcha. And that was what made me sad because I it would have been perfect to and that's I think that's what Alpha Group does really well too is they they are very engaging and get you to think, but it generally, Alpha Group goes a little bit further.

Dave:
Yeah. Yeah.

Greg:
Depending on which version you get.

Dave:
How does this line up with, traditional, traditional Christian values, traditional Christian theology?

Greg:
Okay. Yeah. You wanna go first? I think you get a lot here. So I

Chad:
think they have, a lot of really good starting points with this campaign. They they have a lot of really good ideas. They're doing a lot of really good things. I think there's some incompleteness to it. There's some there's some things that are lacking. And it it's kinda like when you're having a conversation with someone and there's some hard things that need to be said, and you're just avoiding saying the hard things. I I kinda feel like that's what's going on there. Because, yeah, he gets us and, like, there's this whole building the empathy and Jesus is so accepting and he loves you where you are and he loves who you are.

Chad:
And it almost conveys this idea of it doesn't matter what you do, that he's going to accept you. You don't have to change. Just come along for the ride, bring who you are, bring everything, and just come along for the ride. Yeah. And there's nothing about, the difficult conversation. Like, the the part that I think of, like, he gets us. Yes. He gets us.

Chad:
He gets us in all our sinfulness. He gets how truly sinful we are. And I think of Romans five eight, yet while we were sinners Mhmm. Christ died for us. Yep. Like, there's a difficult conversation. And when people talk about Christ dying for us, they say he loved us so much, he died for us. There's a lot to that death for us.

Chad:
Why did he have to die? Mhmm. That's a big deal because there's this thing in his death that has to do with wrath.

Greg:
Right.

Chad:
It's because God's wrath was upon us. And like a Christian's one of Christianity's favorite verses is, John, three sixteen. God so loved the world that he gave his only son, whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life. That was my Greg version of it because I've got the NIV, NAS, ESV all mixed up in there. But everybody loves that world. God loved the world so much that he gave his son. Whoever believes has everlasting life. That is such a feel good verse.

Chad:
But, like, later on in that chapter in, verse 36, says, Whoever does not believe, God's wrath abides on him.

Greg:
Mhmm.

Chad:
Like, if you don't trust what Jesus has done, his wrath abides on on you. Like, this this is some really serious, heavy stuff. And Christians, there are many Christians who do what they do with bad motives. There are many Christians who aren't perfect. But when Christians are sharing the gospel, they're they're carrying this very weighty thing with an incredible amount of compassion. Like, I was there. I was completely lost. I get it, and I I know where you are, and I want you to experience the same grace that I experienced, and that's why I'm telling you this.

Chad:
I feel like the He Gets Us campaign is just incomplete because it doesn't go far enough

Greg:
Yeah.

Chad:
In sharing those things. They've got this captive audience of however, tens of millions, 40,000,000, 80 million people, whatever, watching. And and that's fine for the TV thing, but then when you get them back to the website, it's it's still missing. Right. It's it's just incomplete. And I don't wanna be harsh because there's it's starting a conversation, it's starting discussions. I don't know how God is going to use it. I don't know where like, if they get people reading their bibles, that's good.

Dave:
Mhmm.

Chad:
I just am concerned that that it's incomplete in some areas.

Dave:
Yeah. Yeah. That echoes real quick, that echoes something that I like to say at my day job. Sometimes we have these incredibly complex, processes that we have to follow. And these things sometimes were documented five, six, seven years ago. And the systems keep changing and not, Sometimes they get replaced, you know, sometimes they get adjusted, updated, whatever. And sometimes you'll be following a process and all of a sudden it just dead ends. And you're, like, halfway through and you don't know what comes next because the interface has changed, the system has changed, something's gone, something's new.

Dave:
And I like to say, that process walked us out into a field and left us there. Right. And I kinda feel like that's what's kinda happening here, potentially for a lot of people.

Greg:
Yeah. So if you take the example of the one I watched through, it ends with if you follow Jesus's example then you will be curious about other people. You'll be open to them. Right? And it and it basically ends with we'll all get along better because we follow Jesus' example. And it never comes to the point where, okay, it it toyed around with the concept of, hey. Whenever we say these things, we're kind of admitting that we have a problem with

Dave:
this. Mhmm.

Greg:
But it never called it what the bible calls it, sin. Never called it called the people to repentance. It was just let's get along better by understanding each other, being curious about each other, and to engage because that's what Jesus did. Yeah. And he did those things, but you can't forget he called people to repentance. Right? And he he called people to change. And it's the change that comes about because of the faith, but it's still change that god calls you to. And so that's that's the part.

Greg:
It's repent and believe. It's not just belief. And it's not just I mean, if you think about the view that Jesus was just an example, what is he an example of? A guy who wasted his life by letting himself get killed so that he could be an example of what? A guy who wasted his life by letting himself get killed. You know, like, there's not a lot of internal coherence to the that moral atonement or moral example theory. Yeah. And the bible teaches that God there's there's a number of things that the bible teaches that the death of Christ accomplished. But one was the substitutionary atonement for sin. Yeah.

Greg:
Right? He substituted for us so that we can have access to the righteousness of God. Because you you could go to the end of that video, and if you don't go any further, you've not come anywhere closer. Maybe you're even a little further away from the gospel because you've become a moralist now. You're just purely a moralist.

Dave:
We're not sure exactly who listens to this, but I think this might be a good place to put this. And if not, through the magic of editing, it will end up in the correct place. If you're not a believer and you saw the He Gets Us message, and you decided to try out our podcast because you saw the He Gets Us thing, We're really not trying to run down what you saw and what made you curious and what made you want to learn more about Jesus. You really need to find a believer or a good church in your area and follow this to ground. Get your answers from a good believer, a good friend. Talk to people about this and find out about it. And if you're a believer, be open to have that conversation with someone that saw this and is curious Okay. And is starting to ask questions, maybe because of this commercial.

Greg:
That's great. Yeah. If you happen to be listening and you get curious, hey, we'd love to hear about it. We'd love to engage with you.

Chad:
And pick up your Bible and start reading it. Absolutely. Download the Bible app and start

Dave:
listening to it. It's never been easier.

Chad:
Yep. You can go to esb.com or CSB. Any any bible. Yes. Bible search bible app. And you'll get all kinds. You can listen to them.

Greg:
Yep. And if you if you have been also to come across somebody, you're a believer, and they ask you about the He Gets Us commercial, don't just immediately slam it. Yeah. Like, take advantage of that curiosity Yeah. In the best sense of that word. Like, go, hey. Like, what what engaged you about that? And go, hey. Yeah.

Greg:
You know what? What maybe you offer to do a bible study. Yeah. How cool would that be? Say, hey. Let's, why don't you and I sit down for the next four weeks, and we'll just read through John as far as we can, and we'll just talk about what we read. Do something to engage them with the gospel. And and don't don't immediately just run down that he gets us because you're upset about the edginess about it. And it because it's it I mean, some of the some of the commercials are edgy enough that if you're a long time believer, you might you might just be a little bit offended.

Dave:
Yeah. This this might be an opportunity to have a few coffees with somebody, a lunch, just some time to get together.

Greg:
Take them to the finish line. Right?

Dave:
That's right. Yeah. Walk them out of the field that they've been left in. That's right.

Greg:
Yeah. That was a mixed metaphor. Yeah. Taste up.

Dave:
So we mentioned earlier and you saw on the Super Bowl that He Gets Us commercial. How does this happen? What what what brought us here? So this was in the year 2025. The foundation that sponsors the He Gets Us commercial spent $17,500,000 for seventy five seconds of ad time. In 2024. Oh, really?

Chad:
Okay. That's what you have.

Greg:
$17,000,000. Wow.

Dave:
17 and a half million dollars.

Chad:
For seventy five seconds. What was that movie what was that movie where Richard Pryor won that had that money and he had to spend so

Greg:
much Rooster's Millions. Yeah. He

Chad:
had to spend that money in thirty days. Yeah.

Greg:
30,000,000 in thirty days.

Chad:
Yeah. Yeah.

Greg:
That's a great movie. Anyway Was it though? I don't know.

Chad:
I'm not recommending it. $17,500,000 for seventy five seconds.

Dave:
That's it. Yep. Amazing, isn't it? Yeah.

Chad:
So Look at the nation's debt clock. Anyway.

Dave:
And then, the foundation that is sponsoring this has a goal of spending a billion dollars by the year 2020 by the end of 2026.

Chad:
Right. And that's their whole campaign.

Dave:
So that'd

Chad:
be everything they're doing through the year because I've I've already been seeing commercials and There's billboards. There's Yeah.

Dave:
All sorts

Greg:
of stuff. Literally, I realized on this. They

Dave:
I think I believe they declared that in 2021 or 2022. So that's a four or five year plan to spend the billion dollars by the end of twenty twenty six for the He Gets Us campaign. Right. So this brings into question a couple things. One, what's the name of the foundation or who is it compared

Chad:
to Joel Osteen's church budget? Oh. Just curious.

Dave:
Just curious. Are we counting bathroom money?

Greg:
That's a callback to their first episode. I know.

Chad:
I know. Back to a lot of stuff. Anyway, sorry.

Dave:
Sorry.

Greg:
I don't know. Did you say law

Dave:
Servant Foundation? The Servant Foundation. Right.

Chad:
Yeah. It's the Servant Foundation. Happy to help.

Dave:
Yes. The Servant Foundation is the name of the foundation that is sponsoring this. It was founded with heavy influence from David Green, CEO of Hobby Lobby.

Greg:
Hobby.

Dave:
So that's, like, the perfect mix. Right? He's the CEO of a major corporation. He has a reputation among liberals as being ultra conservative and among, and a reputation when conservatives is being a bit of a compromiser. So just enough to make everybody mad. But this kinda brings into question a couple things. One, if you had a billion dollars to share the gospel, how would you do it? And two, corporate sponsorship of a gospel message has some interesting potential side effects to it as well.

Chad:
Yeah. So he's it it's him and a bunch of anonymous donors. We don't know what his stake in it is. We don't know if he's a majority stake. We don't know where he lands in it. If he's Right. If he's, like, half a billion or a quarter billion or

Greg:
So tell us a little bit more about David Green. Because I know I know the reputation, but, like, what are some of the specific things he's been involved with that conservatives might consider shady? Yeah.

Dave:
Are all Hobby Lobby's closed on Sunday

Greg:
or just the one here in town?

Chad:
I have no idea.

Greg:
Kinda like Chick fil A, the other Christian company.

Dave:
The other Christian company. One of the two in existence.

Greg:
I didn't know corporations could accept Jesus as their personal savior.

Dave:
Corporations are people according to campaign finance law

Greg:
in The United States Of America. Well, I think legally, it's that they represent people. Right? Yeah.

Dave:
Hold on there.

Greg:
That's why we pay corporate taxes.

Dave:
Oh, dear.

Greg:
Had to go there, didn't it?

Dave:
Yep. Yes. You did.

Greg:
Hobby Lobby. So what what

Chad:
are things that, the Hobby Lobby owner, founder, whatever, does to irk conservatives.

Dave:
Yeah. So admittedly, not as common as his irking of the left. But apparently, and I'm not terribly familiar with this, he did, massive layoffs during COVID, closed all the stores, did massive layoffs. And when in the blanket communication to do the layoffs, there was, some sort of, you know, citation of scripture as to why he was doing this.

Greg:
No. Be warmed and filled kind of a thing.

Dave:
Yeah. So that was that's one thing that's kind of

Greg:
That's great. Lay somebody off and tell them all things that work together for good.

Dave:
Yeah. Sure.

Greg:
I'm not saying that's what he said. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. That would be ironical.

Dave:
Point being, he's a a major kinda charged figure. Yeah. Probably more so for the left than the right, but some elements on the right also.

Greg:
Yeah. Could you call his attempt a kind of soft sell? I don't even know if you could call it soft sell, though, because it at least in the far as I go on the website, I can never get to a point where it actually calls people to repentance or shares the gospel. And that's the part so what is it? Can you call that soft sell or do you call that sell short? Like, that's my dilemma in terms of describing Yeah.

Dave:
I would call I would call it incomplete or a sell short.

Greg:
Okay. And Definitely a soft sell in terms of tone. Yeah. But then it does sells it short. It yeah. It Or comes short.

Dave:
Yeah. It it pulls up little stops before it closes the deal. So there's a few metaphors we could mix and throw in here. But that's why I'm kind of saying if you know somebody and you're a believer, close the deal. Yeah.

Greg:
But yeah.

Dave:
Yeah. Cool. So any other thoughts on corporate sponsorship of gospel messages?

Greg:
Yeah. Can we get back to the question of how I'd use a billion dollars? Sure. I probably would do more with church planting. And you can say, hey, find a church, which is, you know, good. But it seems to me that, like, I hate to use the term return on investment. That just sounds, like, so crass. But in terms of god's priorities, is the conversion the priority or is the discipleship the priority? Right? Is that the ultimate goal? Maybe not priority is probably not the right word there, but the ultimate goal is discipleship. So could you use those kinds of methods more locally and help produce material that churches could use or, you know, find ways to get this out into churches so they can do discipleship better.

Greg:
Mhmm.

Dave:
And

Greg:
that that includes a conversion part. So that's that's what my thought would be about spending a billion dollars on on the Super Bowl.

Dave:
How about you, Greg? What would you do with a billion dollars to share the gospel?

Greg:
A billion dollars. Could I throw out a joke here?

Chad:
To share the gospel.

Greg:
I think you'd buy the gospel Corvette.

Dave:
The gospel weird jet.

Greg:
You could throw tracks out the window as you're driving past. Sorry.

Chad:
Okay. Just

Greg:
visualizing you peeling out in the neighborhood just throwing tracks in the window.

Chad:
I don't understand, Dave. Sometimes. Yeah. So I I think I'd I'd I'd I'd try to restart BBC.

Dave:
Oh, brutal.

Greg:
Brutal.

Dave:
Oh, man. Yeah.

Greg:
I don't

Chad:
think money is what the churches need.

Greg:
True. I'm with you, %.

Dave:
Yeah. If I had a billion dollars, I'd pay myself all but half a million and then get myself an assistant for three years. It's called the full Olsteen.

Greg:
Full Olsteen. There's nothing that seems to ruin the church more than money.

Dave:
I would agree.

Chad:
Yeah. Well, that and spending money they don't have.

Dave:
So a moment of history for Catfish Ministries. Dun dun dun dun. That is our generic theme song for everything, isn't it?

Greg:
Dun dun dun dun.

Dave:
We have a correction that we're gonna make. Yes, we are going to make a correction. And this comes from a recent episode on medically assisted suicide, in which we took some time out to address the issue of if, committing suicide is grounds for instant hell, or an automatic denial of salvation. And we all have had experiences with Catholics that believe that. I believe we all agreed on that. Right? Yeah. We've all met Catholics.

Greg:
Conversations multiple.

Dave:
Yeah. That have flat out said that. Yep. Well, we have a Catholic listener who gently and lovingly showed us the part of the Catholic catechism that does not support that. Right. We'll call him Catholic Dave. That's his name.

Greg:
Hey, Catholic Dave. Thanks for listening.

Dave:
Yes. No doubt. Okay. So from, the catechism, there's numbers here. I don't know what they mean. So I'm sorry about that. It does say, I'm just gonna read straight through here, so it's a little long. But if suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal.

Dave:
Voluntary cooperation and suicide is contrary to the moral law. So that addresses the issue of medical suicide and says, you know, if you're cooperating with suicide is contrary to the moral law. It goes on to say, grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Greg:
Which is a shift. Yes. Yeah. So, thanks for pointing that out, first of all. Interesting. That made me do kind of a deep dive on it. So it was interesting because question that I had as well, did the church ever teach it? And according to the AI that helped me do some of the research, They claimed, and I that's why it needs to be documented more, but

Chad:
Mhmm.

Greg:
That the church never officially said that. And then my follow-up question was, well, then what about the not giving last rights and not burying? Right? Those in sacred in sanctified church cemeteries and things like that. And they did acknowledge that historically that was the case and that there was heavy heavy implication of that. Mhmm. But officially since 1983, the the catechism was changed and that's when it became official doctrine of the church that that, suicide may not necessarily lead to eternity in hell. So But it does, by that catechism, sound like purgatory and that's why they're prayed for. Right. Yeah.

Greg:
Yeah. That's right. Right. Yep. And and there's a mysterious So if

Chad:
they praise for them, then

Greg:
Then they could be in trouble. They're just lost in purgatory for perpetuity. Well, this Don't make us do more correction. Wait. Wait. So yeah. Because I thought I thought purgatory you could help somebody out of purgatory, but sometimes you can get out of purgatory without people outside praying because you, as it were, burned out.

Chad:
So I'd I'd read my bible to try to find the answers, and I can't.

Greg:
Okay. Yeah. That's fair. But I I think it's as a as a note of historical theology, I think it's interesting to know when the where those changes was, was where and came about. So in John, Paul was actually one of the first who really publicly emphasized that suicide needed to be dealt with more pastoral concern than with trying to judge whether or not somebody was going to suffer eternity in hell because of suicide. So that's helpful to know. That way, we can be accurate when we speak.

Dave:
Right. Exactly. So thank you, Catholic Dave. We appreciate it. Probably the only correction we'll ever do, the Catfish Ministries, the name you can trust. The. But just a

Greg:
little bit less after today. But back to a little more after today. That's right. That's right.

Dave:
We'll always try to issue a correction when we get one. And if you heard something that, you liked or didn't like, please drop us a line at the fish@catfishministries.com, the fish@catfishministries.com. We appreciate you listening, and we would love for you to listen even more and tell a couple friends about us too. So, thanks as always. And if you can't trust Catfish Ministries, who can you trust?

Chad:
He gets us.

Dave:
Thanks for joining us at Catfish Ministries. We hope you learned something with us and maybe had a laugh or two while you're at it. Please subscribe and leave a five star review. If you really like what you heard and wanna help us make more of these, look us up on buymeacoffee.com. We can't wait to talk to you again next time. This is Chad for Greg and Dave signing off and saying remember America, it's always a great day to get catfished.