Finding Reverie: An Entrepreneur's Journey
Finding Reverie: An Entrepreneur's Journey podcast will be discussions with small and mid-sized business owners where they will share their experiences, lessons learned, challenges met, and successes achieved throughout their entrepreneurship journey.
Finding Reverie: An Entrepreneur's Journey
Finding Reverie: An Entrepreneur's Journey with Sam Rosen, Founder of Deskpass
This episode, we're diving into the story of Sam Rosen, founder of Deskpass— a marketplace that connects companies with co-working spaces all over the world.
Seven years ago, before coworking became a buzzword, Sam recognized the need to connect people with cool spaces to work in. Fueled by vision, grit, and an unshakable belief in learning through failure, Sam turned obstacles into stepping stones. His secret? He’s not afraid to fail—because every failure is a chance to grow.
Sam’s journey is a masterclass in persistence, empathy, and vulnerability. He doesn’t just lead with vision—he leads with heart.
Tune in to hear how Sam continues to learn, adapt, and rise—every single day.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much. Hi, Sam. Thank you for joining us today. Hi,
SPEAKER_02:Sam. I'm so excited you're here, mostly because you're a brilliant human, but also because the people that we have in common are way too fun for us not to have you here. I know it's going to be a great conversation today. Thanks for coming.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, thank you guys so much. It's nice to meet you, and I'm excited to chat as well.
SPEAKER_01:All right, Sam. So let's start off. Tell us about DeskPass, what you do, and what inspired you to start the business.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. So DeskPass is a marketplace that connects companies and most importantly, the people who work at those companies with all sorts of incredible workspaces all over the world. So co-working spaces that are available to book by the day or the hour. So we sell basically meeting rooms by the hour, desk by the day, private offices, all really short term and pay as you go. And what inspired this idea was I came across coworking about 17 years ago, which like hurts my head when I say that out loud and I have to always double check. But I came across this concept of coworking in New York City And I had never heard of it before. And no one had heard of it before. There were about 300 of these workspaces in the world. If you wanted to find them, you had to go to the coworking wiki. And there weren't any in Chicago. So myself and my partner, Pat, we have a design and branding firm. And we're like, we have some extra office. There are no co-working spaces here in Chicago. Let's open one up. And from that, I just sort of fell in love with this notion of where and how we work and the idea that the office didn't have to be what I think most people think of it as still today.
SPEAKER_02:That is so cool. And I just think to myself, like, It's hard for me to even remember a time where we didn't know what coworking was because it's so part of how we do life now. But you're right. There was literally a time not that long ago where it was not so mainstream. You had never even heard of this concept before.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there were no movies or TV shows about WeWork.
SPEAKER_02:Right? Not at that point. So that had to have been a little bit mind-blowing. When you saw it, was it instantly you were like, that makes so much sense?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was a really obvious idea that I had never considered before. For me, I was traveling to New York a lot, and I was staying with my girlfriend and working out of her really... crappy apartment and it was a nice apartment and she was wonderful but it was just messy and I had bad cell phone and bad internet and I would Didn't know what to do. So I started working at the cafe down the street called the rabbit hole. And I realized they didn't want me there because I'd sit there all day. I'd have two coffees and a bagel and I would take their expensive Brooklyn real estate away from better paying customers. And the name of the coworking space was called the change you want to see, which I thought was the dumbest name when I heard it. But in hindsight, It's the greatest name because it really did. I walked into a room of a bunch of really fascinating people and arts and media and design and technology that were just sharing space together. And I was like, oh, duh. But you ask anybody at that time, there was, do you know what? coworking is. Everyone would say the same thing. They'd say, co-what? And you'd be surprised at how many people still don't know what coworking is. But we've come a long way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I guess in Chicago, we finally caught up, right? But outside of Chicago, maybe there are still some cities that haven't had exposure just yet. I guess we forget about that, don't we?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we live in a big city with a like a pretty progressive scene. But I still like, when I'm in an Uber or a cab, people say, you know, what do you do? And you'd be surprised when I say co-working, how many people are like, what? What's that? But it's every day, more and more people. I
SPEAKER_02:love that. It's brilliant. I mean, we have an office that is a co-working location. And so I guess, and we've been there for quite a while now. And so to me, it's just like part of life. I can't even... Like I said, as you were saying it, I was like, oh my gosh, you are right. Like there was literally a time where this wasn't a thing. I can't remember it, but wow. So yeah, thank you for sharing that. That was a fun, just kind of little rewind back to a totally different time. A
SPEAKER_00:very different time.
SPEAKER_01:So Sam, how did your career begin? Was owning your own business always kind of a goal that you wanted to pursue? Or did it happen more by accident?
SPEAKER_00:I'm a unique, I think, nice little Jewish kid from the North Shore of Chicago in the sense that my mom is a painter, my dad... directed and produced television growing up. So unlike my, I think my peers where it's like, you can be whatever you wanna be when you grow up, but we'd prefer if you're not a doctor or a lawyer. So I've always had sort of this autonomy and support to like kind of explore and do what I want, which is lucky and plenty privileged. I've always been entrepreneurial since I was a little kid. You name it, right? When CDRs came out trying to sell mixtapes to kids in junior high or writing poetry books or building websites. That was always very intuitive and natural to me, and I never really considered... anything else until recently. But I, you know, I think when you're young and you, you're kind of ignorant to the risks associated with starting your own thing and building your own thing. And it's kind of a blessing in the sense that I married, I got two kids, I got a mortgage, right? The idea now of starting a new business and the risk associated to it would make me think about it differently. But I just didn't, it's just how my brain's wired and I didn't know any better. So yeah, I've always been entrepreneurial. My first like substantive business, which turned 20 years old this year, which is wild, right? is called One Design Company, which is a digital branding agency that does really wonderful design and brand and like interactive work. And that has been the most kind of consistent foundation of me of just thinking about design and how it meets technology. And then as I've learned about new ideas and concepts like coworking, it's given me a bit of a platform to like, riff and explore and try new things. So yeah, for better, for worse, I think this is the way for me.
SPEAKER_01:So you're not a single entrepreneur. You're actually like a double entrepreneur.
SPEAKER_00:I'm more than that. But yeah, I'm the real deal, I think, just in terms of I don't know any better anymore. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Isn't it so great though? I love that you included the whole bit about like when you're young enough and you don't even realize the risks associated with it.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Because then when you do it once, you got to do it again and then you got to do it again. It is one of those things I think that just becomes so easy to, it's like your new obsession, you know? Because every single time is so different, but there are enough similarities that you kind of feel a little bit more bold and then you just kind of go in bigger. Has that been your experience? Like, have you been super excited? Like once you do one thing to go to the next thing, like how does that look for you? Or do you do it all at the same time? Are you like... Boom, boom, boom,
SPEAKER_00:boom, boom. I love the beginning, right? Like I love the zero to like up and running phase. I love the idea of like, I have an idea and trying to make that idea like a real thing. I think a lot of people are scared of that because they have an idea. And then this idea, you know, this, how do I get from here to there? And they're like looking up and they're like, man, I don't, it's such a big step. And in reality, it's a bunch of little steps. You know what I mean? And I think I learned that early, and that's helped me be able to, like, when I have an idea, deconstruct it into, like, all right, like, one bite at a time. I have a lot of friends now in my life that, like, have taken more of a traditional sort of... path of taking a job and working for a business. And then they have an idea and they're inspired. And because they know me as they're like, you know, this is kind of my persona. They're like, should I do it? Should I do it? And I often feel like I'm the guy. They come to me with their, they're like at the ledge of a, you know, at the ledge. And they're like, should I jump? Should I jump? And I'm like, dude, I'm like, push them. I'm like, go. Like the worst thing happens is you fail. And then you learn a lot of stuff and you're probably going to, that'll help you go back to what you were doing before and give you more perspective. So, but again, ignorance is bliss. And I think I learned this at an early age and I was very lucky enough to be in a situation where I could afford to screw up, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I have to ask you. So, let's say somebody's listening to this and they're on that ledge. What do you usually recommend? If there was one first little small step, because I love that. I love that you said, it seems like this big, huge step, but it's really a bunch of little ones. Without having any clue of who's listening to this and what it is that they're considering jumping into, what's the first thing that you would say to rip that band-aid off, get real bold? What is that first little step?
SPEAKER_00:Obviously, technology has changed so much as it relates to this and improved. So I'd probably think about it a little bit differently today because there's such good tools that exist to help you break things apart. But again, I think it's like breaking things apart into smaller chunks. It's, okay, you want to start a business. Like, what's the... what's the first thing you have to do to start a business? And what are the different pieces? People get tied up about incorporating a business and insurance and really stuff that is not scary. It's not complicated. Today, I know there's this wild AI bandwagon that's happening, but the tools have never been better to be able to put together a concept and get help and say, hey, this is my idea. How should I get started? And be spoon-fed like, okay, like step one, step two, step three. But I always think like having the right people around you to support you, finding a mentor, finding someone who's done this before who can just help you, advise you, you know, just kind of soothe you when you're scared, but be able to kind of point you in the right direction. I've leveraged that my whole career. I'm so lucky. And I think most people have someone in their life that can say, here, here's where to look.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. We've heard a lot of people when you're talking with the founders or the entrepreneurial minded people, community is huge, which obviously it's, goes back to the co-working concept too. When you're working on your own like that, it's so important to have a community around you. So I'm really glad that you said that. I think too, knowing how to properly use AI or the technology for what it's there for and knowing when to sub the person in is equally important.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's never been easier. It's never been easier to, in one button, you can set up and incorporate a business in Delaware and have a bank account and an incorporation and operating docs. That's insane. In another button, you can have a business plan written by a robot. We live in amazing times.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it's pretty insane. ChatGPT created a picture of what what it thought my dogs would look like if they were human beings. It can give you a step-by-step on maybe where to start. There are some really cool things happening. I want to see those
SPEAKER_00:pictures.
SPEAKER_01:You know what? Dogs were very handsome, I might say, as humans. They
SPEAKER_02:really were. They really were. And there's something weird about seeing a picture of your animals as humans where you're like, of course, that's you. Absolutely. I love
SPEAKER_00:novel use cases, and that's pretty high on the list. I'm going to go home and see what my cats look like.
SPEAKER_02:You should. You should, but I have to warn you, sometimes they don't turn out great. So it's all about a good prompt. So as with all things with AI, make sure your prompt is pretty solid or you're in trouble. No, but I think that's such an important point, though, that you're making is that barrier to entry and the level of access people have to resources. What an amazing time to be alive. If you are entrepreneurial in nature, or even if you're not, but you've got a really great idea, It is all right at your fingertips. So easy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So easy.
SPEAKER_00:The other thing I would say is people are often scared about sharing their idea because someone's going to steal it.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, someone's going to steal it. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I've always thought that is not the right way of looking at things. If it's a great idea. Someone's doing it. So like, and no one's going to know about it unless you share it. So I think that's the other piece where people are like, I can't tell you until it's ready or fully baked or I need to sign a non-disclosure. And it's like, look, like if this is a good, I'm not going to do your idea. And if this is a good idea, like it's probably being done or you're really early and you got time.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'm glad you bring that up because I think there are definitely times where people get into that headspace. And to me, that's scarcity mindset. And I think it's an important reminder for all of us, like, because there will come a time where you're feeling like that little bit of threat, but it's like, oh no, you're going to need so many people behind you knowing about what you're doing and cheering you on and wanting to do what you're doing. And like all of those things, that's going to be important for your success, not the other way around.
SPEAKER_01:All right, Sam, I want, to ask you about some of the obstacles or maybe let's even call them failures that you faced early on and tell us how you overcame them and how they even led to growth.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I feel like building a business is like, building a fire from scratch, you know what I mean? And sometimes it goes out and you have to start over and sometimes, you know, like you can control it and sometimes it controls you. I think for me, one of my gifts is kind of seeing where things are going. So for me, with coworking, and sort of the future of work, a lot of it became a lot more obvious when COVID happened, but we were so early. To me, it was like a duh, like this makes perfect sense. I'm in River North in Chicago. I'm looking across the street at this building. This building has been here for, I mean, I've been here for 12 years. This building's been here forever. it was always mostly empty during most of the time. These buildings have been underutilized for a long, long, long time. And I think the world is starting to notice that more and more. For me, timing. We were so early where the market didn't exist. When we started, we were selling software to manage these spaces. And there weren't that many of them. Everyone was so different that they were very complicated. Like, it was hard to build a one-size-fits-all solution. It was very complicated to build. And they didn't have money. They were really frugal. It was like the trifecta of a bad market. So part of it is just sticking with it, right? Learning. Iterating. Most importantly, talking to people, your customers, listening to them. Like... It's a conversation, it's a dialogue. And for me, we had so many setbacks because it was just too early and it didn't exist yet. So part of it is persistence. Like if you ask, I think, you know, one of my favorite Chicago entrepreneurs, Mark Lawrence, who started Spot Hero, and he said this once and I really appreciated this. And he said, like, the number one trait that I see for great entrepreneurs is persistence. is great like it's hard and you're gonna fall on your face and you're gonna want to cry and you're gonna want to quit and you're gonna want to take a job and you're gonna like doubt yourself and you're gonna see other people do what you're thinking and have more success and you're gonna be like i suck um waking up trying again over time and not giving up. And that's not to say you shouldn't ever give up, but I think like more than intellect, more than intelligence, more than access to capital, persistence of trying to solve the problem, talking to the people you're trying to help, listening to them, incorporating that feedback and evolving that is I think what drives successful people. The other thing I would say is, which is what I think makes up really good entrepreneurs and just successful people in life. It's not just related to business. It's that bad things are going to happen, right? And the people that I know that are the most successful and the happiest, and those are not mutually exclusive. When those bad things happen, they extract the good out of it. Even if they buy something for X and sell it for X minus 50%. Like they don't say, oh, this sucked. I lost all my money. They say, I learned a lot. I had great, I made my, learned my best friend. I learned what not to do. I, And I think that that mentality of like, there's medicine everywhere, there's like lessons everywhere. And the people who not just are the best at business, but I don't know, often the happiest of life are the people who say, there's a lot of good stuff here and I'm going to take that and I'm going to move. That's what's going to propel me forward, not the negative side.
SPEAKER_02:Such an important reminder. I feel like we oftentimes forget that we only see what we're looking for. And so if we're putting it through, if we're living this life and having these experiences through a negative lens or through a failure lens versus can I see the opportunities and the lessons and everything else? I mean, two completely different outcomes that could have been in a completely different situation. Everything else was the same. It's just how you choose to look at it. And then that determines, it has such a ripple effect and determines so much moving forward. I love that. That is such a critical reminder. Brilliant. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:It's also what you see, right? I mean, you see people like friends and Instagram or whatever, where you just see the highlights, right? You see entrepreneurs where they just post the wins and you can be really successful at putting forth an image, which is, I don't know if it's disingenuous, but it's like, it is not the whole picture. And I can't believe how many times in my career I've thought, I've misperceived where people actually were And sort of overinflated their success or their traction or whatever. When like later when things are, you know, when you could talk about it and you have a conversation and it's like, no, like more than most are going through the same pain and trials and tribulate, like the same stuff you are. there, you know, you just can't see it. So like there, there are very few stories I think of people just like who get to avoid that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I would be interested in hearing if there was someone, but what a crappy story. I mean, like, like what would we even be watching? You know, it's like, there's nothing interesting that happens and, if all we're watching is one win after the next and oh, it's so easy, it'd be over in five minutes and we'd be like, can't get that five minutes back. I learned literally nothing. There's nothing interesting here. But I wonder if it exists.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's funny you say that. So like when, you know, one of our early competitors was WeWork, right? And WeWork, it was like, Competing against WeWork as a co-working space operator in the early days was, like, this notion of, like, these guys don't... Like, gravity doesn't apply to them. Like, when I jump, I go this high. But when they jump... Like, money just flies out of the... And it was just, like... it seemed like they could do no wrong that they were just defying the fastest. And they were like, we're doing the same thing, you know? And then when the money machine stopped, you're like, Oh, actually
SPEAKER_02:there's the story.
SPEAKER_00:There's a movie about
SPEAKER_02:that one. That one is maybe not what it seems. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the whole thing is fascinating. And I think, um, It's really funny, you know, once you can see behind that curtain, what you see sometimes is not what's actually going on. And if we just like measure ourselves compared to what we think we know. Totally. Like not only is it just strip the joy right out of it, but also these are not apples to apples situations like that is just not a good form of measurement at all. But it's so hard not to do that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's human
SPEAKER_02:nature. Why do we do that to ourselves?
SPEAKER_00:There's, there's, there's gotta be a reason.
SPEAKER_02:Could you figure that out and then we'll have you come back and then we'll talk
SPEAKER_00:all about. Okay. I'll tell you in about four minutes.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So Sam, this is probably, you should probably take it further back. Cause I, you had already been an entrepreneur when you started desk cast, but is there one thing that you now know in this industry, time in your entrepreneurial journey that you wish you knew when you started?
SPEAKER_00:You know, everyone's just making it up. Like no one, no one's done this before. Nobody, many people have like run a couple of businesses back, but like they didn't live another life that they can consciously, like we're all just winging it. You know, we sold desk pass last year and I started working for a unbelievable, like it's this company called Yardi. It's the biggest property technology company in the world and it's run by someone who's about twice my age who started this business 40 years ago on his MS-DOS machine and like has built a 10,000 person multi-billion dollar empire and you know going into that machine as an entrepreneur you're like oh you think he has it all he's like you know this is his dream and his, he made it, how he made it all up. But again, I think you look, you use these like Titans and you're like, they're all winging it, man. And I think when you realize that it makes it like a little less holy, like a little less sacred. And you realize like, we're, we got one, we got one shot at this. So like, let's just have, do our best to have fun. And it's fun to see how other people make, make it all up. Yes. It's a thing.
SPEAKER_02:It's a real thing. And it's so refreshing to, to have people who are like, I mean, I don't know. We've never, we've literally none of us have done life before. So like every time that we go through and do this, I mean, like we're, we're waiting in it. That is refreshing. You meet so many people that make you feel like there's one right way of doing all the things, and if you're not doing it that way, you're just not doing it right. But it's like, in what world?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, in what world? It's like, wait, you haven't lived before? You know what I mean? You might be 40 years ahead of me, but this is still your first go-round, you know?
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:How quickly things change now. I read something. I'm not even going to try to quote it because I would just sound like a moron. The speed that things turn over and change and move and shake. None of us have done this before. Literally none of us. Even that person with 40 years on, any of us, that literally means nothing anymore because what happened yesterday is now so far out of date by 12 years in some old way of measuring time. It's like it moves so rapidly. Literally none of us have done this before. Get some confidence. Like everybody's sitting around the table from you. We should all just feel as confident as the next person because nobody knows.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But therein lies the hardest part is, is, trying to feel confident you know i mean there's a lot of people who think i can't start a business until i know this this this this this this this and this and they become paralyzed in you know their fear they become stuck in that in not moving forward and i do feel like in every conversation we have with entrepreneurs the difference between them and me who is not who would forever get stuck in my fear is just that. You guys are willing to take the leap, even if you don't have all the answers, and I'm stuck trying to find all the answers.
SPEAKER_00:But also, like, I don't know. You fail enough, you know, a couple times, and it's less scary, right? the people who are like, Hey, I learned a lot. I learned not what to do. And then it becomes less scary. It's like, okay, like, you know, your, your family will still love you. And if you're a good human being, your people will still be there for you. They care way less than you think. Like it's so often you tie your identity to what you do, but like, that's not what other people do. They like tie you to you. And, and, and that's what matters. You know, I love this, um, there was a art collaborative in Austin and they made this poster and I have it when I go downstairs, which is like where my stuff is and at my house. And it says, tie your shoes, pack a good lunch and remember that we're all in this together. And I just like, that's it, man. Like we're just, we're all doing the best we can.
SPEAKER_02:Are you even a respected entrepreneur if you haven't failed at least once?
SPEAKER_00:There's so much. So much medicine in that. And if you haven't done it yet, then time's ticking. Unless it's maybe a Warren Buffett. I think he might make it.
SPEAKER_01:Sam, so in this kind of rapidly changing AI, moving forward, changing just kind of the whole landscape of things, how do you prepare for the future of your business?
SPEAKER_00:I love to learn. Like... I love learning. I love reading. I love podcasts. When I do my errands and my chores, just listening, especially as it relates to entrepreneurship, how other people do stuff. I just learned some amazing stuff this last weekend about workflows for the future of work, but it's not just work stuff. I just like learning about how the world works and how other people do things and how things like, you know, like the science or just sort of the mystery behind different people in different stories. And I just like, to me, that really helps like to, to your point, like it, things move so fast that you have to keep listening and kind of tap in. So for me, podcasts and books and surrounding myself with people that really inspire me and are doing things way different to me. This is like one of the reasons coworking is so rad. And one of the reasons that I fell in love with it early on when we had our initial space, like one of the guys was one of the founders of Uber. The other one was doing James Bond titles. The other one was a professor in micro economics. Like we had people that, we're not related in terms of their field, but it's like, oh, like maybe there's something you've learned or something that you do in your craft that that concept applies to me and my business in a different way. That's actually like where the magic happens, right? You go to the same place every day. You work on the same projects every day with the same people every day. You go drive down the same route every day. Like there's stagnation there. But if you put yourself in a room with other people who think about different things, different ways, if you change the route you take to work or go see other parts of the world, I think like, it's human nature to kind of connect the dots and be like, what if I take that and apply that to me? And maybe that's novel or maybe that's kind of a unique advantage.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so you've talked about being persistent, having grit. You talked about how you always like to learn. So I'm gonna call that curiosity. All these things have shaped who you are as an entrepreneur. What else do you think is, makes people a good leader?
SPEAKER_00:I think it's two things to me. You know, I like to say nice, like being a nice person. I remember getting beat up once. We were had the opportunity to win clients from a company that was selling. And they were like, what differentiates you? And we were like, really nice people. We're really nice people to work with. And they laughed us out of the room. They're like, this is not. That's a terrible. What is that? And that always stung. But I think it's two things. I think it's empathy. Being empathetic. You know, like just empathy. respecting that people have different paths and different stories and are in different parts of their lives and maybe are dealing with stuff that you don't see or know and just like understanding appreciating that and not trying to solve it but just saying like hey man I feel you I'm here for you and I support you but not necessarily like being like and let's fix it and I learned that with my wife it's like you know it's like sometimes like you know it's not solution engineering it's just like yo that sucks like man i think that really goes a long way and the other part for me and different i think people handle this different is being vulnerable it's vulnerability i think you see that like with people that people tend to really connect with people that are vulnerable you know like those folks that sort of just like on this persona that like their doesn't stink you know and they've never messed up like everyone knows that's bull like you know what i mean everyone knows that that is not how the universe works and i think those that are kind of willing publicly but especially with their team to say i don't know or this hurts or like when when one design turned uh 14 i won um We did these awards and I won most likely to cry. You know what I mean? But I think that was a nice thing, right? That made me feel good and not bad. But I think that really resonates with people because if you're empathetic to what they're going through and then you're vulnerable with what you're going through, it builds a lot of trust. It builds a lot of... Flexibility when things don't go well and when you need to rely on people, they are willing to be there and help you and kind of see you through. So empathy and vulnerability. Those are my words.
SPEAKER_01:Well, Sam, thank you for speaking with us today. If people want to learn more about DeskPass and what you do, what is the best way to do that? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:We're easy to access and find on a personal front. My, you know, SammyRosen.com has a link to all my world, right? And then DeskPass.com, Instagram, and it's just at DeskPass.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you so much for speaking to us, speaking with us today. Honestly, it was a great conversation. You offered excellent tidbits of information that I know other entrepreneurs are really going to hang on to and learn from. So thanks for your time today, Sam.
SPEAKER_00:My pleasure. Thank you both so much for the time and the platform.
SPEAKER_01:And thank you for listening to our podcast today. Don't miss our next episode of Finding Reverie, an entrepreneur's journey coming soon.
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