Meaning and Moxie After 50
Looking for more inspiration and possibility in midlife and beyond? Join host Leslie Maloney, proud wife, mom, author and teacher, as she talks with people finding Meaning and Moxie in their life after 50.
Meaning and Moxie After 50
Bridging America: Insights from Braver Angels on Dialogue and Understanding
Witness the power of dialogue as I sit down with Gabby Timmis from Braver Angels, an organization transforming America's political landscape. Born from the aftermath of the 2016 election, Braver Angels began as two friends and a renowned therapist came together to mend the nation's divides. Through innovative Red Blue Workshops, they foster understanding between Trump and Biden supporters, growing into a significant movement with over 100 alliances and 14,000 members nationwide. Discover how their approach, likened to couples therapy for the nation, is reshaping perceptions and uniting communities through empathy and shared goals.
Curious about how seemingly irreconcilable beliefs can coexist? Explore the unique exercises of Braver Angels, like the fishbowl, where participants engage in moderated discussions on hot-button issues—without interruptions. The focus isn't on changing minds but on fostering genuine reflection and understanding. This conversation delves into the discomfort and growth found in embracing opposing views, drawing parallels to religious dialogue. With initiatives such as the Braver Network and national conventions, Braver Angels is leading the charge in creating spaces for respectful dialogue across society, from local cafes to corporate boardrooms.
In this episode, personal stories bring the impact of Braver Angels to life, including a touching account of familial reconciliation. Gabby shares insights into navigating political disagreements within families, with resources like the Family and Politics e-course providing practical support. The episode concludes with reflections on the broader applications of these skills, encouraging listeners to foster meaningful connections beyond politics.
See link for more info.
http://braverangels.org/
**The information provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute legal advice; instead, all information, content and materials available on this site are for general informational purposes only. Information on this podcast may not constitute the most up-to-date legal or other information. This podcast contains links to other third party websites. Such links are only for the convenience of the reader, user or browser.
On this episode of Meaning in Moxie After 50, I chat with Gabby Timmis from Braver Angels. Braver Angels is a group that's basically couples therapy for America. They're tackling political divides but don't worry, no one's throwing chairs like a reality show. If you've ever thought, can we just all get along? This episode is for you. Tune in for laughs, insights and maybe a little hope for humanity. Hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 1:I'm Leslie Maloney, retirement coach and podcast host. I'm all about helping you navigate the many transitions of this next chapter, from redefining purpose to finding joy in the everyday. We dive into real stories, practical tips and inspiring conversations. So whether you've already retired, you're planning for it or you're just starting to think about what's next, join me for this fun and fearless exploration of life's second act, because life after 50 isn't the end of the story. No, far from it. It's where the magic truly begins. Go to my website, meaninginmoxieafter50.com for more information and now let's get going with this week's episode. All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of Meaning in Moxie After 50. And I have a really timely, interesting interview here today. I have Gabby Timmis with us from Braver Angels organization. You may not be familiar with Braver Angels. You're going to find out about them today and the great work that they are doing and we're going to be discussing why, of course, I think probably all of us will recognize why it's so timely, so welcome.
Speaker 2:Gabby, thank you. Thank you so much for having me, leslie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so tell us a little bit about Braver Angels.
Speaker 2:How it got started, I guess, yeah, so, braver Angels, it really started in the wake of the 2016 election, after we saw how you know how much division and polarization was just happening throughout the country, across all different sides. The origin story is that, essentially, the 2016 election happened and there are two friends, both named David. One, david, was based in Manhattan, in New York City, and the other, david, was based in Ohio. And the Manhattan David calls up his Ohio David friend and says David, what in Manhattan, in New York City? And the other, david, was based in Ohio. And the Manhattan David calls up his Ohio David friend and says David, what are people in Ohio, what are you guys thinking about this election? You know how did you guys feel about it? And David in Ohio says oh, you know, we're delighted and you know, we're not at all surprised, like we thought Trump was going to win and we're happy about it. Yeah, things are good. And he said how about you guys in Manhattan? What are you guys thinking? And you know, david, manhattan was like, oh, here in Manhattan, everyone's hair is on fire and everyone's completely shocked that Trump won. And so then the two men just started talking and they had been, you know, they'd worked together for years and they were just like how strange in the same country, there's two completely different reactions to the same election. And what's that about? Yeah, so and so then David Blankenhorn, who's our who's our president, he's the one who's based in Manhattan said what if we just got a bunch of Trump voters and Hillary voters in a room together for a weekend? What if we just did that? You know what would that look like. Here's a nice social experiment in November, after the 2016 election. And so they were talking.
Speaker 2:The two Davids started talking to a third friend, bill Doherty. Bill Doherty is like a world renowned couples and marriage, marriage and family therapist, and so they're telling Bill about this idea. You know, we're gonna bring Trump voters and Hillary voter and Clinton voters in the room together and just see what happens. And Bill Doherty says you cannot do that. You know you can't just throw a bunch of people in a room together after a highly contentious election. You know where. There's a lot of feelings and emotions around it. That's not going to go well. And what Bill said is what you need is structure, you need some guidelines, you need, you know, like a workshop essentially for people to go through, and they said, okay, well, can you put something together? And he said, well, we'll see what I come up with.
Speaker 2:And basically Bill went away for 48 hours and came back with what we now call our Red Blue Workshop. So that workshop was the first Braver Angels Workshop and now we've grown out from there. It was a weekend long and from after that they said they saw lightning in a bottle and they did a whole bus tour throughout the United States putting on these workshops throughout the country and then to not to bury the lead, but now I should say Braver Angels is the largest grassroots organization in the United States, working to bridge the partisan divide and really working to address polarization. So now we have over 100 alliances throughout the country. We have over 14,000 members. So we've we've certainly grown since 2016,. But, yeah, a lot more work to be done for sure.
Speaker 1:Sure, and just getting us to talk to each other and realizing that we have way more in common than we than we have different. Yeah, and we're ultimately all after the same things in terms of, you know, peace, stability, taking care of our loved ones, you know, faith, hope, all that. Yeah, that's at the core of what we think is right or wrong. Um, so you mentioned that there are alliances all over the country, so would that mean that y'all are in every state and and that if somebody locally like I'm here in florida, if somebody locally wanted to reach out, how would they do that and and go?
Speaker 2:ahead. Yeah, so so braverangelsorg slash alliances, a-l-l-i-a-n-c-e-s alliances. If you go there, you can see exactly where, where in the country we are. In some, in some states we have, you know, multiple alliances. For example, I'm the I should say I'm the director of communications for Brave Angels at the national level, but I'm also the blue co-chair for our New York City Alliance. So New York State, we have multiple alliances. We have Westchester Alliance, we have Albany, you know whatever. But other states don't have as many local alliances but they likely have state coordinators. So if you're in a state where maybe you don't see a local alliance right away, you can still reach out to a state coordinator and try to get connected and you could potentially even start an alliance yourself.
Speaker 2:I started our alliance here in New York City because we didn't have one, so you can definitely do that. The one thing is, for all of our alliances and all of our leadership we have, we start up a red-blue balance. So an alliance can't start until you have a red blue, a red co-chair and a blue co-chair. So that's how everything happens. So, so in New York City, I wanted to start something for a while and I ended up meeting my now friend, brent, who is a red, is a red or conservative, and so he and I started our alliance together. So, but if people want to just check out, you know, see what's in their town, see what's in their area, braveangelsorg slash alliances is a good place.
Speaker 1:So are you meeting once a month within those alliances? I mean, I know, let me, let me just talk about my experience with Brave Rangers. So back during it was sometime during the COVID time, when a lot of things were canceled and of course, we were resuming all over the place. When a lot of things were canceled and of course, we were resuming all over the place and I had a friend of mine from an organization that I used to be a part of. She proposed it as one of our meetings. She knew about you, all She'd had. I can't remember what her experience was. She was like well, let's bring in Braver Angels, and this organization happened to be an environmental organization and so let's do the topic of climate change and have a red blue conversation about climate change, because there's a lot of strong opinions and feelings around that, and so I have to be honest, I was pretty skeptical about the whole thing. I thought all right, especially doing it on zoom, yeah, whole thing. I thought all right, especially doing it on zoom, yeah, because you're not, you're not, you're not having that face to face. I'm a very I I've you know that I like people in front of me just to be in, because body language and all that. I think some of that is lost, sometimes online, and anyway it was.
Speaker 1:We went through the process, which which I want to talk more about, and we were split in. You know, we I want to talk more about, and we were split in. You know, we were split off into different rooms and we were to talk and then come back and debrief and all, and it was amazing. By the end of it, you really saw that we were all on the same page. Ultimately. Yeah, yeah and um, it was just a different perspective on on a few different twists on that topic of climate change. Yeah, and it was just. It was Matt. I ended up, I ended up walking away from it and I came. I came out after, after we went offline and I said to my husband that was masterful way that and it took about maybe an hour hour and a half. I want to say we were meeting maybe two hours on. I don't know, but can you talk through? What is the secret sauce there? What is that, step by step, gets people to realize they are pretty close in how they feel.
Speaker 2:Well, one thing that was just coming up as you're talking, like one of our things that we really strive for is accurate disagreement, which is something just in my own, even beyond, you know, even outside of Braver Angels, if I'm talking to a friend or I'm talking to one of my parents or something like that, it's so nice to have that frame of mind and be like you know, try to figure out what is the 80% of this issue that we agree on and where specifically do you go this way and do I go that way? And because so often we talk about our like, we talk about politics and we say, like the economy, well, there's so much to the economy, you know. We say like abortion, we say these big or climate change or all that you know, and there's so much more involved in all of these conversations, and we just kind of say, well, I'm on this side of the issue or I'm on that side of the issue. And then the nice thing about once you get specific about things you can really think about like, oh, we actually agree on all these different things, you know. Kind of interestingly, but I'll circle back to your question, but a quick story that just, I think makes this point is that someone in Braver Angels was telling me that after Robey Wade was overturned, she who considered herself to be pro-choice went out for a meal with her friend who considered himself to be pro-life and they started talking about abortion and the specifics around abortion and they realized that she who considered herself pro-choice was actually more conservative on the issue of abortion than he who considered himself pro-life. They just labeled themselves differently, but maybe she thought she was pro-choice because she thought abortion should be legal up until 12 weeks or something like that, and he considered himself pro-life because he thought abortion should, you know, be restricted. You know whatever, but it's just. It just shows how sometimes, when we get super general and and uh, vague about our labels and our views, you know you don't really know where people land.
Speaker 2:So so good, yeah, sorry, I didn't say the secret sauce of Brave Angels. So, first and foremost, I mean Bill Doherty is such a secret sauce of Brave Angels. This. He's an incredible career as a marriage and family therapist and he's so intentional with how he structures all of our programs, so all of our workshops, everything is structured by him and with his work in mind. And again, it's, it's, it's we, we do. You know, it's the guardrail. So we have different. We have guardrails in our conversations. We have moderators in all of our conversations. For our debates, we have debate chairs, so we have people.
Speaker 2:That the the way I like to think about it is there's something I learned about in grad school called the productive zone of disequilibrium, which is this idea that there's kind of a sweet spot for conflict and where conflict can be productive.
Speaker 2:Oftentimes we're either conflict avoidant and so there's no work, there's no progress being made on that front, or once we start talking about hot, difficult issues, it goes completely off the rails immediately.
Speaker 2:But for Brave Angels, since we have these guardrails and we have moderators and we have structures and different ways of doing that in these workshops, I think for people that are like, well, this is weird. I'm like, you know I'm going to have this really structured political conversation, but you realize, the structure is what allows you to stay in that zone where you're confronting conflict or talking about here's what I, here's what I believe, and you're speaking. You know one of our core principles is speaking freely, fully, without fear. So you are saying exactly what is on your mind and you are given complete, you know space to do that, and then you're hearing someone else saying exactly what's on their mind and they might be complete disagreement with you, but because of those guardrails, because of that structure, you're staying in the zone and you're kind of talking to one another and you're face to face and all of that. So there's many different secret sauces, but that is that is. That is one part of it for sure the guardrails and the structure.
Speaker 1:Can you get. So you mentioned that accurate disagreement, which I really like that term, and you know that's, and you said let let's focus on the 80 we agree on and then let's maybe dig down. Yeah, that is really worth worth highlighting again, because we could all walk around and do that in our lives, yeah, and just take breath and and just find that middle ground, because it's there, yeah, and then you know we all have our different ways we see the world, and why we?
Speaker 1:we do because a lot of times when you can explain well, here's why I see it this way then people can go. Well, I I may not agree with that, but I can understand yeah, no, exactly yeah give us an example of a guard, a guardrail in action yeah, so, um, well, so, okay, so here's just an example.
Speaker 2:So, um, in our red blue workshop, which is kind of our premier workshop it's the one that I, when I spoke about brave angels, kind of in the beginning um, this is what that was, that first um workshop, um, so one aspect of the red blue workshop is what we call fishbowl. So fishbowl is in the red blue workshop context. All the blues will go in a circle and the reds will sit outside that circle and listen and they'll be asked questions about. You know, why do you believe what you believe? Why would you blue and like, what reservations do you have about your side? So all the blues will speak amongst themselves while the moderator asks some questions, and then they'll switch and the reds will do the same. Then they'll go in the middle and they'll talk about why they're red and why they believe what they believe, and then you know what reservations they might have on their own side.
Speaker 2:So just this practice of one group is talking, the other group is listening, and they're listening, and you're taking notes and you're really kind of listening intently, and then you're switching and then the other group has an opportunity to speak, just something like that, where it's like, you know, no one can get up while someone's talking and say you know you're wrong for believing that, because you know there's no back and forth crosstalk, nothing like that. It's really just let's give each side full access to just share exactly what's on their mind, and then you know again, there are different um parts of the workshop. So, uh, another part of the red blue workshop is um blues go away and um formulate questions for reds and reds are the same. Reds go away and formulate questions for blues, and then reds and blues meet up and they start asking each other questions. And I've done this before. I've gone to the workshops and so I remember the one I was in. We were talking about guns, we were talking about abortion, a lot of you know hot button.
Speaker 1:So not just not just one topic, then just general platform stuff.
Speaker 2:Exactly so, and it so for Brave Rangers. One of our core things is that you're not listening to convince anyone of anything. One of our main things is you are not here to change anyone's mind. We're here to change people's views of each other, not the issues, so anyway. So just to go back to the process of when you're asking each other questions, we have moderators there, so moderators can step in at any point and say hold on, can you reframe that or can you know? Okay, this is getting a little too hot, like what if we pull back for a minute? And I will say like in my experience the moderators never have had to step in and do a lot.
Speaker 2:I think it's kind of like human beings kind of rise to the occasion that they're in. You know what I mean, so that when you know you're operating with the, then the structure and you all have this like mutual hope of understanding one another, people just kind of naturally rise to the occasion, even when it's difficult. Even you know, I always say I often get stomach aches when I go through some of this stuff just very natural, normal human responses. You know you get a little uncomfortable, but it's a matter of like staying in that discomfort and working through it, and then at the end you're like, wow, we did that, you know, and my discomfort didn't have to throw this whole conversation off the rails can we pause right there, because I think there's a lot of gold in that, because we've, we don't, we don't like to be uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and part of the reason I think we're uncomfortable is because we, we feel like we know, this is what I know and this is where I I, this is where I kind of live in opinions, and so now I'm going into something that might get me to shift a little bit my perspective, and do I want to do that?
Speaker 1:yeah um, and and. So sometimes we can get so rigid and and in that and and challenging ourselves, like to put our how, how, um, because if we really do truly believe what we believe, then if I see another perspective, it's not going to necessarily change me. Yeah, it's not about necessarily changing you. It's just about seeing, seeing another perspective and just realizing there are other perspectives. Yeah, I think that can be hard and challenging for a lot of us, yeah, and I and I I'm trying to under, I guess it's because we want to be right.
Speaker 2:We want to feel like we're right.
Speaker 2:What's so interesting? Because, again, as we say in Brave Angels, like we're not trying to moderate people, we're not trying to like people will be skeptical. And then we're like do you want us to be a bunch of centrists? Not at all. We want people to show up as you are, in your full partisanship. You can be fully partisan. You can say you know, no, you know, we have plenty of folks. I'm thinking of one of my colleagues who just said a speech the other day. She said she, from just a policy perspective, could be considered far right, like she could be considered very, very conservative but dispositionally she is so open to conversation, she is so open to talking to people who she disagrees with. She's also very confident in her worldview. She's very confident in her perspectives, but she's very open to other people. And that's the thing that people don't realize that those two things can exist together. But they can.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's yeah. That's kind of the point I was trying to get at. You know that it's almost like you know, I mean to use religion as an example and some people really defend their religion for whatever reason. And then there are many others that have their spiritual beliefs and they can go out and talk to anybody about what they believe and there's no, there's no challenge there.
Speaker 1:It's just kind of like oh, tell me what you think yeah so I think that when maybe, maybe it's when we're not confident, yeah is when we're the most uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I'm just throwing that out there no, it's a great, it's a really interesting point because actually it's funny.
Speaker 2:One thing we've heard from folks who've gone through brave angels workshops um, they've said like, wow, I've never actually thought that deeply about my views before and here, isn't that funny that we like get into these really hot, you know arguments and we're going back and forth and we're like fighting for our lives on this issue and like my god and the ruins, thanksgiving and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:But you've never actually sat there and thought about, okay, like again for me, and like I me, and like I can say this for myself like there have been times where I'm like I'm pro choice, but if someone asked me specifically, what are the limitations on that? When do you feel comfortable? When do you not feel like? And just like actually sincerely asked me about like how many weeks is it to this term or that term? Like it's like, oh my gosh, I've never actually had to sit there and had someone really sincerely want to understand my perspective. You know, you can you just start fighting in those vague fights, but once you actually have to start digging into it, you're like, wow, I've never actually thought this deeply about it before, which is ironic.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's critical thinking. I mean that's what we're talking about here, and so many of us don't take the time to really think it through and be critical thinkers. We get caught up in the emotions of it and I would think that your model here have any schools taken on your model?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great question. So we are, we've we have a presence at hundreds of colleges across the country. We've done a ton of different campus debates. So, universities this kind of model works really well, obviously because young people are exploring what they actually think about the world and they're excited to talk about it and debate about it no-transcript.
Speaker 1:Not debate, because this is not a debate. But are you? Are people watching? You have some reds and some blues on a stage and then people are watching that um unfold in front of them. How do you do?
Speaker 2:that. That's a good question. So we actually Braver Angels actually does do debates, so we do have um programs for that Um and we've done debates at the high school level. Um in terms of schools and working with administration, I don't know enough, but it's a fairly new program. But I know I think it initially started just when there was a lot of animosity within school boards, I think especially during COVID. There was a lot of conflict there. So I think they started with parents and teachers and school boards and working with those folks. But I do believe that they're working on, I know, at the college level. They have a curricular toolkit, so they have a toolkit for professors to be able to use in the classroom of you know how to have these conversations in a good way, and I think they might be developing something similar for high school and middle school. I'll have to check back on them with that, okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, and unfortunately in some of the public schools we have just shut conversations like that down altogether. You can't talk about that at all and it's unfortunate. So I'm glad to hear that there are people like we can. We can have these conversations and it's okay.
Speaker 1:So I think school board working it at a school board level too, because that helps you get in the door to the schools if the school board can handle it, Maybe. Maybe you get in the door to the schools If the school board can handle it. Maybe the kids in the schools can too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to show them it works yeah exactly so.
Speaker 1:the organization sounds like it's just grown dramatically since 2016.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So, and we I sometimes joke I'm like we're like a mutant octopus that grows like a new tentacle all the time. So we have, you know, we have our work on college campuses, we have our work with schools, we have our work with faith communities, we have our work with journalists and media, we have our work with. One of our bigger initiatives now is something called Braver Network. So the idea being there.
Speaker 2:You know, braver Angels alone can't solve polarization in this country. We know that. But if we can create essentially a coalition of many organizations across many industries and many fields that are interested in this idea, then we can build a broader movement. So for Braver Network, you don't have to be a civic organization or a bridge building organization in order to be part of that coalition. We have folks, we have local cafes, we have hairdressers, we have museums, we have colleges, we have, you know, any institution that is interested in bridging the partisan divide in one way or another is welcome to be part of Braver Network. Um, and then, you know, through that we bring in more and more people to to our, to our program. So, um, yeah, we've definitely, uh, definitely grown, and certainly now there's always a lot of um interest leading up to election, so I'm sure more growth to come.
Speaker 1:Do you have any like? Let's say, I was a corporate CEO and I wanted to bring you all in and have some kind of a dialogue with my employees. Are you all doing something like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have. So we have a couple of national ambassadors John Wood Jr. Monica Guzman is a great speaker and I know has worked with different organizations. Bill doherty, who I mentioned, one of our co-founders um, I know he's done work with uh in corporate environments to to help people. He's actually doing one soon on how to navigate political differences in the workplace. So, um, definitely something that we have on our radar, kind of, really, I'm like almost any aspect of society we are thinking about and probably have someone trying to work on, I imagine so Cause it's so, it's so vast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are some of your wins? When you think about your wins and some of the amazing stories, I'm sure there's a lot. What are some of the ones that pop in your mind?
Speaker 2:lot. What are some of the ones that pop in your mind? Great question, so a big one, that we had this past summer. We had our national convention. We had 750 people there. It's half red, half blue, which is a huge undertaking to make sure that it's completely balanced and and so that I mean that's just always amazing.
Speaker 2:We do these national conventions annually but we'll be actually we're not doing it every other year, but I mean it's just incredible. It's like four days of programming. You know when I tell people when I'm in the midst of planning it, like, yeah, I'm planning something for four days with half liberals, half conservatives together. Four days with half liberals, half conservatives together. Oftentimes we do it on a college campus. This time we did it in Kenosha, at Carthage College. So folks in some cases are sharing rooms together. It's quite intimate and it's quite all packed in, but for four days it's just folks really working sincerely on this issue, and what progress can we make? And we're building friendships and relationships and there's a lot that comes out of that national convention. So that's just a big win. And you know, from a media perspective, I'm always excited about the coverage that we get. So we were actually featured on a New York Times podcast, our convention was, and we were on. Al Jazeera and Wall Street Journal's covered us recently, and PBS and CBS, so we've gotten some really wonderful media coverage. So that's kind of on the macro level. I mean, on the micro level, there's so many just incredible stories.
Speaker 2:One story that comes to mind this one's just gut-wrenching, but there's a woman, janice, in Washington State, and she wrote her alliance this really beautiful note. She wrote to them about how she was taking care of her dad. Her dad was sick and in his last year or two she was taking care of him. She was her full-time caretaker and, um, she was a blue, he was a red.
Speaker 2:She used to come into his home and you know she'd hear fox news and it would just set her off and and it just would set the wrong tone, you know in in their relationship and and and it just would set the wrong tone, you know, in the relationship and so they were just kind of at each other's throats a bit and through her work with Braver Angels and specifically she credited the friendships that she made across the aisle, so the friendships that she made with conservatives she totally started changing her disposition.
Speaker 2:She stopped getting so upset about hearing Fox news, she started getting a lot more curious about, you know, her dad and his views and they just had these really beautiful, really meaningful conversations and the two of them just developed so much more depth in their relationship. And she said, you know, in their his final months, she, you know, nothing was left unsaid because of this group of angels that you know, it could have been something that you, he ended, he ended up passing away and so, you know, she said, like there was, there was nothing there that I regretted, like we ended up just really being able to talk to each other and understand each other and hear each other in this last few months of life, and it's's just like what greater gift than that, like that we can actually understand one another.
Speaker 1:And you know it's just so.
Speaker 2:That's the story that comes to mind, but there's so many stories like that with, I mean, married couples with parents and children. You know I I've spoken about with my own dad. You know I'm a blue, he's a red, and we've had plenty of disagreements and, um, the work of brave angels has really helped, you know, I can say for myself, has really helped me talk to him and understand him better.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's about relationships really and it really is, and it's we. When you see relationships destroyed because of politics, yeah, and, and you know we, a lot of this is out of our control and people we don't even know, yeah, and yet the person sitting next to me now I'm angry at them and our there's a wedge in our relationship and what a waste that is that we allow to occur. And you said something earlier on that a lot of times we avoid it. You said there were two things we do either avoid it, and there was something else, I guess crash in or or something, or just goes completely off the rails.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's like too hot or too cold. Yeah, exactly, and and you know that whole thing about don't talk about religion and politics when you go into but but that's not healthy either, because we all feel that yeah we feel that in play, like we can't really be the the full person that we are. Yeah, let me just say I'm not going to talk about it either yeah, I totally agree yeah, so it sounds like.
Speaker 1:Is there something like in families, if a family get ready for thanksgiving or something are there? Are there resources on your website that somebody could go to and use?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a couple of things. So we have a family and politics e-course that anyone can do. If you're a busy person on your own time, you can run through that e-course. I find it super interesting, super helpful, again developed by Bill Doherty, and he identifies different roles that different people in the family play. Some people are like the defender and they're always defending their views. Some people are kind of the provoker, the provocateur and, you know, agitating people Like you know, we all have these different roles that we play in our families. And one point that always stuck with me in a really interesting way from that e-course he talks about, you know, how family dynamics play into politics. So, for example, if you think that you know, if you always felt your whole life that your mom always took your brother's side, and then suddenly you're talking about politics and you're just disagreeing with your brother and then your mom takes your brother's side and then it's like you always took, you know it suddenly becomes so personal, it's no longer about the politics, it's about the personal. So there's a lot of interesting dynamics with family. So yeah, the family and politics e-course is a really great thing anyone can do.
Speaker 2:We also have a family and politics workshop. We do, I should mention. We have plenty of in-person conversations and workshops for people to join, but we also have a lot on Zoom. So if people don't have anything in their area, that's a workshop we often you can I'm sure you can guess why, but we often offer the family and politics workshop right in the weeks coming up to Thanksgiving. So there's often Zoom workshops that people can drop into for that.
Speaker 2:The other thing I'll just mention, depending on when this episode comes out, but on october 19th, um bill doherty, our couples therapist. Um will be working with, uh, two loved ones who are divided on politics and what he does is a live conversation. It's almost, it almost looks like a therapy session. So it's a live conversation with two loved ones who disagree on politics and they talk through it and he will counsel them. So he's doing he's doing that live on October 19th and it's just like I will say from my end, I'm like it's the most interesting content I've ever consumed, cause it's like it's so vulnerable and it's so intimate, but it's also so helpful because anyone can really apply it to their relationships and so it's super interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because really apply it to their relationships and so it's super interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, like you said, it goes beyond politics this, it's really, it's, it's, it's teaching people how to relate in and whatever, and whatever the topic happens to be, yeah, so which we can all use help on, yeah, because we can all dig in at different times. I'm thinking about locally here, so let's go back to that how we get involved with Braver Angels. We need to go to the website and we need to look and see about the local alliances, yeah, and will those people come out and help moderate a group? If somebody wanted to do a blue, red type thing, will?
Speaker 1:they drive and and. Is there a fee? And how does that work?
Speaker 2:yeah, so we don't charge for any of our workshops, but we do have a whole uh network of moderators trained moderators throughout the country who can help put on the workshops. Um, it really just depends on capacity, like I know. Um, so we have a bunch of different roles in in braver angels we have moderators. We know. So we have a bunch of different roles in Braver Angels we have moderators. We have debate chairs. We have organizers.
Speaker 2:Organizers are the folks who kind of do the nuts and bolts of planning, because oftentimes our moderators they're not the event planners necessarily, but if an organizer and a moderator can work together to put on an event, that's definitely doable. But, yeah, we have folks, we have churches reach out, often wanting to do things with us or um schools or stuff like that. So, um, yeah, I think the best first step, depending on um where folks are in the country, is to go to that alliances webpage and see if you have an alliance nearby you, that's awesome. I would reach out to those co-chairs. If you don't, I would reach out to the state coordinators and see who they might be able to put you in touch with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's such great work it really is, on so many different levels. Anything that we're not as we start to wrap up here, anything that we're not touching on that you'd like to be sure to mention.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll mention. So one thing that we're really focused on is what we're calling the American Hope Campaign, and it's this campaign to bring in a lot more people to Braver Angels, and also in the process of bringing people in to expand our reach and our impact to elected officials, and so we're not just impacting people at the grassroots level, but we're also bringing our work to our political leaders throughout the country. So I'll say two, I'll mention two different initiatives that are part of the American Hope campaign for anyone who might be interested. The first is that we're doing it's a citizens commission on immigration, so we're doing common ground workshops on the issue of immigration throughout the country. We're doing it at both at the grassroots level, but then we're also working in DC with some of the biggest immigration leaders to see if we can bring them together across the divide. So if folks are interested in doing something, a part of that, they can go to our website and they could potentially even be a part of one of our common ground workshops. We'd love to have folks or people, people are interested in hosting one, um, even better, uh, so I'll mention that.
Speaker 2:And then the other thing I'll mention, which I'm actually heading up, is, uh, an initiative on election day. We are sending red, blue uh pairs to the polls throughout the country on election day, um. So the idea being that, you know, we want to meet people where they're at and a lot of people are going to be at the polling places on election day and we want to show people you can disagree on politics and you can stand together and you can still get along and you can still be friends or anything like that. So I'll be doing it with my dad in Michigan. We're from Michigan and so if anyone wants to be a part of that, we'd love to have you. We just we're. We're hoping to get a lot of people out there doing that on election day. So, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:How, how high up in politics have you gone? I'm just thinking this. I would love to see Braver Angels moderate our next debate. No, we would not be great. Yes, Question there.
Speaker 2:We so we've built already has testified in front of Congress. So you know we've gotten to that level. But one of the things that we're really working on is state legislatures. So both in New Hampshire and Minnesota there's like essentially like a Braver Angels caucus of folks of reds and blues, or Democrats and Republicans In that case, working together to try to reduce polarization in their state legislature. And you know, oftentimes they'll work with our folks and do red blue workshops with, you know, their fellow legislators and all of that. So state legislatures are a really great place to kind of start with us. So we have a whole initiative called Braver Politics that my colleague, elizabeth Dahl, heads up, and so she does a lot of candidate debates and stuff like that throughout the country, but mostly at the local level. But we have big dreams, so yeah, 2028.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, I mean, it takes time to implement all this and it sounds like you guys have made huge strides. So just such an interesting conversation this morning and a food for thought for all of us, especially as we move into the fall and get closer to November and even beyond. Because you know, I mean, it's politics is politics, and that old adage don't talk about religion and politics. That's been around a long time, not just in the last 10 years or so, so it's always kind of a little hot potato. Yeah, thank you so much, gabby, for sharing this information and giving us your stories, and we'll put all the Braver Angel information. Anything you want to throw in there, just send it over to me and we'll. It'll be in the show notes for listeners to go and dig around and get more information.
Speaker 1:Awesome, well, thank you so much for having me, leslie. This is a lot of fun. Yeah, thanks so much everybody for listening and hopefully it'll give you some things to think about and we will talk soon. Bye now, if this podcast was valuable to you, it would mean so much if you could take 30 seconds to do one or all of these three things Follow or subscribe to the podcast and, while there, leave a review and then maybe share this with a friend if you think they'd like it. In a world full of lots of distractions, I so appreciate you taking the time to listen in. Until next time, be well and take care.