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Lessons From The Masters: Ian McPherson

• Host Joe Motes • Episode 20

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Experience the inspiring journey of Ian McPherson, a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt from the renowned Alliance Jiu-Jitsu team, as he shares his path from wrestling in Atlanta to achieving mastery under one of the most influential figures in all of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Master Romero "Jacare" Cavalcanti. Discover Ian's early influences and the key figures who fueled his passion for Jiu-Jitsu, including his recent successes at the Atlanta Open. With a reputation for technical excellence and a love for techniques like the clock choke, Ian opens up about the unpredictable nature of both training and competition, offering listeners a treasure trove of insights and wisdom.

Uncover the profound impact Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu has on individuals and communities through tales of iconic figures like Jocko Willink and Royce Gracie. His personal journey is woven into the narrative, as he recounts the significant influence of his father. The close-knit and supportive jiu-jitsu community shines through, revealing the camaraderie and shared experiences that define this martial art. Whether you're new to the sport or a seasoned practitioner, the conversation celebrates the cultural richness and the personal growth that Jiu-Jitsu offers.

Explore how practitioners balance the demanding nature of Jiu-Jitsu with life's challenges, particularly at the master's level. Ian and I discuss the importance of consistency and mindset, emphasizing that dedication can often surpass natural talent. From achieving a state of flow during training to balancing the sport with other interests, this episode provides a holistic view of Jiu-Jitsu's benefits beyond the mats. Listen in as Ian shares advice for practitioners at all levels, encouraging them to celebrate their milestones and stay engaged in their lifelong training journey.

Want to get in touch with Ian? Drop in and say hi by visiting Georgia Martial Arts & Self Defense in Acworth, GA https://www.gamasd.com/

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Caffeinated Jiu Jitsu is a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu podcast focused on BJJ training, competition preparation, mindset development, belt progression, and the lifestyle of grappling.

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Keep Your Passion Brewing




"Journey of Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt"

Speaker 1

Hey, caffeinated rollers, Joe. Here In today's episode, we have the privilege of talking to Ian McPherson, a highly accomplished Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt and a key member of the Alliance Jiu-Jitsu team. Ian earned his black belt from the legendary Master, Jacques Array, solidifying his place in one of the most respected lineages in the sport, With multiple podium finishes at prestigious tournaments, including the IBJJF Worlds and PANS Championships. Ian has built an impressive career both as a competitor and as an instructor.

Speaker 1

Known for his technical mastery and his incredibly kind and approachable personality, Ian is highly respected in the BJJ community and he's passionate about teaching and mentoring and always willing to share his knowledge and support others in their journey. I count it as one of the highlights of my BJJ journey getting to know Ian during the preparation and recording for this episode. So get ready for an inspiring conversation filled with wisdom, technical insights and the contagious positivity that comes from Ian and flows through this episode. And he brings this positivity every time he steps on the mat. This is an episode you won't want to miss and you'll remember forever. This is Lessons from the Masters, Ian McPherson.

Speaker 2

Welcome to Caffeinated Jiu-Jitsu the blend of white belt enthusiasm, black belt wisdom and a dash of caffeine for that extra kick. Dive deep into the world of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as we explore the journey, techniques, challenges and the sheer joy of the sport from a white belt's perspective. From intriguing interviews with renowned coaches and professors to playful fun episodes that'll have you chuckling mid-roll. We've got it all brewed and ready. Now stepping onto the mats and into your ears, here's your host, joe Motes.

Speaker 1

Ian McPherson, welcome to the podcast. Welcome, thank you for having me. Yeah, yeah, it's great being here. I just got an amazing tour listeners of the Ackworth location here and we're going to have all those details and location in the notes of the show. We're going to upload some great touring pictures and Ian and I are going to train together after that Don't hurt me too bad, Joe. I was at your last competition. I don't think there's any chance that I'll be hurting you.

Speaker 3

Well, you know as well as I do that training can be extremely unpredictable, and competition even more so.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, oh yeah. So the last competition, just really quick before we jump into the content. You took what you took, gold in both, or what was the outcome? I saw the one, two matches.

Speaker 3

Yeah, it was just this last Atlanta Open two matches, two submissions. Wasn't feeling my best so, as much as I love to do the open division, yeah, that wasn't the day, so yeah so so you're known.

Speaker 1

At least I read online, for uh, I believe it was the toe, toe hole, toe lock. Did it end by either? It did either one end by that.

Speaker 3

No, they were two clock chokes which are also some of my favorites yes yes, but your opponent gives you the submission and you take what they give you. So that's on them, yeah you know, or it's on you when you get caught. You left your arm out there.

Speaker 1

You got armbarred it's on you, I don't. I don't know what you're teaching today, but I I'm selfishly hoping it's something to do with toho, but anyway, let's get into it.

Speaker 3

You make the request and we'll go there.

Speaker 1

Awesome, awesome. Well, let's jump into it, because you know I've been looking forward to our conversation. We just recently met but everybody's been telling me what a nice guy you are and how accomplished you are and from the intro people can can see that. But let's talk about before you became the well-known Ian McPherson. Let's talk about your early journey and some of your inspirations. So you know, where did you grow up, how did you get into jujitsu and kind of what initially drew you into it.

Speaker 3

All right. Well, to take it way back to the beginning, born and raised right here in Atlanta, all my life, I originally was a wrestler. All right, I come high school, I entered wrestling. My father was a state champ back in his day and I thought, okay, that sounds cool and my social group is doing this, so let's go in with it. Little did I know that everyone on the team they were like lifelong guys so I couldn't do a thing with them. But I stuck it out and trained with them and was not a standout at all. But wouldn't you know, I stuck it out and, uh, trained with them and it was not a standout at all. But wouldn't you know it?

Speaker 3

Uh, my third season, one of the coaches coming in uh did this other grappling martial art. We didn't know what it was. Uh, we'd ask what about it and we couldn't tell what these techniques were. But we knew they really hurt. Uh, yeah, we knew that much. It was different. Yeah, so come off season. I thought you know, let's see what this is about. I, you know, I can't do much otherwise with uh, my teammates. Uh, it came to be jujitsu. He was a purple belt, he was the highest level guy at the studio at the time.

Speaker 3

This was alliance hq in at the time, sandy springs, uh, pat Harvey, and the rest is history. I didn't go back to wrestling because why would you, when you have something superior and I'm not being critical of wrestling, but come on Pin someone versus choke them? How hard is this?

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think you'd hear the same from some of the wrestlers too, because there are a lot of wrestlers that do exactly what you're talking about, and I know we have a few at Alliance Roswell Initially. They'll come in, they'll train and they'll be like yeah, this is way different.

Speaker 3

Well, it's similar in more ways than it's different it is. It's all grappling the stand-up, the throws, takedowns are almost identical. Wouldn't you say yeah, Honestly, there aren't enough. Throws and takedowns are almost identical. Wouldn't you say yeah, Honestly, there aren't enough throws and takedowns.

Speaker 1

Well, you have the double leg, you have the single legs. All of that, I believe, is in wrestling. I wrestled a little bit in high school. I wasn't any good at all, I think my freshman year, but yeah, I absolutely would think some of the takedowns. But it's when you get to the ground, I think is when the difference comes right. The guards, I mean you put a wrestler in closed guard or spider guard or something. It's it changed, I would imagine it changes the game.

Speaker 3

Well, I would argue some of the fundamentals still apply, like posture, like oh yeah, uh keeping your base, yep. Like uh, uh, keeping your hands on your opponent. Your hands need to be busy because you're not working, you're not engaging. The mental toughness, the strategy element, I mean right, so they are two different animals on the ground, but a lot of the concepts I think still carry over yeah, so you started.

Speaker 1

So you started jujitsu out of, uh, you know, with a wrestling background. Um, at what point, uh, did you realize yeah, this is and also let me rephrase when did you realize that you fell in love with it and that you had some skill? I mean, it fit you, because I think jujitsu fits some better than others. I think there's a flow that your body kind of learns and adapts. Was there a point for you where that happened?

Influences and Dedication in Jiu-Jitsu

Speaker 3

Well, the I'm good at this portion didn't come till way way, way later, but I came to realize pretty early on my second class or so, that this is the real thing. Like this is real martial arts. I mean, I fought some uh older gentleman who kicked my butt like here I'm a 17 year old hothead kid Thought I knew it all. Yeah, you know wrestling for three years. I know something, uh-uh. I think that's a similar story to Jocko, right, Jocko Willings.

Speaker 1

he was talking about when he was a Navy SEAL and there was this old master chief that just he was like, yeah, I can take this guy, and the guy destroyed him this guy and the guy destroyed him.

Speaker 3

That's. I don't know this story exactly, but something like this. Yeah, but results speak for themselves. Yeah, look at the ufc. Uh, what prevailed jiu-jitsu? Results speak for themselves I.

Speaker 1

I so my oldest son, um, he's 26 and man, every time I say that I start feeling really old. Um, but he's 26 years old and he and I were talking about he started doing jiu-jitsu. I don't know if he trains anymore.

Speaker 1

I don't think he does he'll return when he's ready yeah, but he, uh, you know we were talking about the hoist, gracie, and that's really when, like, I don't say that jiu-jitsu's birth was there, but I think its explosion started there, because I don't think it's slowed down since. And you know people like yourself and myself and you know all of our practicing peers, we all kind of know the story of ufc one right so and because of jujitsu.

Speaker 1

So, um, let's talk a little bit about who your key influences were early in your journey and any specific mentors or role models that maybe shaped you.

Speaker 3

I mean, I told you my father was a state champ wrestler and actually he joined up jujitsu with me. We actually went white to black together.

Speaker 1

He was like my teammate, that's awesome.

Speaker 3

Yeah, so him, first and foremost Jacare. Of course the guy was borderline, working himself to death and anyone who was there years ago before he moved to California, then later Brazil, will tell you guy did nearly work himself to death but he made arguably one of the most dominant teams in the States or the world himself. So you've got to appreciate someone who gives it their all, every single class, every single time, to give you the best possible lessons in martial arts and everything that comes with that.

Speaker 1

Yeah, Really fast. Before you go on, I want to ask you what was it like? So he gave you your black belt, right? So what was it like getting a gave you your black belt?

Speaker 3

right, so what was?

Speaker 1

it like getting a black belt under master jacare.

Speaker 3

Well, I didn't realize it at the time. That's just jacare that I see every day you don't realize, like the impact, like who?

Speaker 1

yeah, like.

Speaker 3

I'd heard other people say this from other gyms, but you have no concept what's what until long after the fact. I mean, he's quite a figure. He's been around jujitsu for 60 years or so. I remember marveling at a magazine clipping or a newspaper clipping on the wall of the studio when I first started brand new white belt, maybe a month in it was a photo of him with an article 40 years of jujitsu. This is 20 something years ago. So you do the math. I mean, geez, he's. I would argue he's one of the most influential jiu-jitsu figures alive. Yeah, for what he's done, who he's produced uh, the impact, yeah, he's made when I joined uh alliance, I had no clue what I was getting into.

Speaker 1

I just knew it was a jiu-jitsu studio that was one exit down from where I was working and I was going to be able to train. I was going to be able to train more than what I was training because we had a small place in my town and that's where I was training. But that's why I made the move. I had no clue. The history and the roots in jiu-jitsu that Alliance had and it was crazy. And I've met, I think, a couple, maybe one, maybe two others that received their black belts from Master Jacare and I always like to ask that question like man, what was that like? Because I've never met him. I've never, you know.

Speaker 3

Maybe you'll get to this month when he comes yeah yeah, I'm excited for that.

Speaker 3

now, here's the weird irony is even if someone had spelled this out for you and and told you the impact and all, you still would have no concept. Because I mean, how would you know, uh, right till you're in the culture. Just like, how would you know, yep, what jujitsu is and what it does and how influential it is, till you're in it? So, like you explain this to anyone, they think you're crazy. You're doing what for fun? Yeah, yeah, that's the look I get.

Speaker 1

That's the look I get, like you're 45 and you got five kids and you work all the time Like you do this for fun. But yeah, no, I think that's a great point. Is there anyone else that you may have? I mean, I'm sure, like most professors, your students influence you every day, but is there anybody else you'd like to highlight?

Speaker 3

number of teammates who will kick your butt in every painful, humiliating way possible, but you get a little better every time. I don't know. I could spend 10 minutes rattling off names Just too many to name but I hope those who don't get named understand their influence they've had on me and the community and how grateful I am for everything and I hope I've made some some impact as well oh, yeah, I like to think I have yeah, I mean, I've known you for what a week and a

Speaker 1

half now, right, and I'm already impacted by your personality and presence. And then, uh, you know, let's, let's spend, uh. So I mentioned, you know, your students having a big impact and and most professors they do. But we talked also a few minutes ago about when you realized you wanted to do jujitsu over wrestling and that was your passion. But there had to be a time in your life or career jujitsu journey, whatever you want to call it that you knew it was more than a hobby and that you wanted to make this your lifelong pursuit, right and where you wanted, like, this is what I want to do day to day. I want to, you know, maybe have my own place when. When did that happen and how did that happen?

Speaker 3

but I'm going to take you back to my first pan am. We're talking 2007. Okay, jock ray conned me into doing it. They were pretty new to the states. This might have been their first or second ibjf tournament in the states. It was brand new. We all flew out to california. Uh, I fought among the purple belts because uh, that's what I was at the time and uh, had a heartbreaking loss at weight and went up into the stands and had a little freak out. Yeah, I had a little panic attack. But this is the old days where you could register in the weight and absolute. You didn't have to qualify for the absolute or the open division.

Speaker 1

You didn't have to medal, right, yeah, anyone could enter.

Speaker 3

Click on weight, click on absolute when you're registering. So I still had the open division and I stuck around and fought out through the open division. I said I am not going home with nothing. I came here to fight and do half a division is not enough. So they miscalculated how long it would take. It went on and on and on and on and on. There were a million people registered for this. So wouldn't you know we get to the end? I'm the very last match of the entire thing. The other rings are wrapping up the. So wouldn't you know we get to the end? I'm the very last match of the entire thing. Like the other rings they're wrapping up, the referees are changing, they're getting out of there.

Speaker 3

Uh, and gives me this look like as if to say I've been here for five days, you better win this. Like after I stuck around to watch you do this and long story short, I wanted, but walking off the mat, it was like it was the sense of maybe I can do this, you know, at a high level, to go in and win an event like this at such a level against these opponents. I mean, maybe this is possible, maybe there's something going on here, and this is before social media. I went home and they had the forums, the jiu-jitsu forums, and there were a lot of haters saying you know, this gringo broke through. It's a fluke. What about this, what about that? So I had to go back to the world later that year and I took second in the purple open Nice. So not quite what I wanted, but I'll take second in the open division.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think people sometimes don't realize what it means to take a silver or just metal. In worlds like the, the brackets are huge. You know it's, it's, it's, it's a significant achievement, it's. It is different than earning. And again, I'm not taking away from from silver. It opens, that's all I have um don't sell it.

Speaker 3

That's exactly.

Speaker 1

It is special and that's it's the point. But but it is different at the Worlds, master Worlds, at that level, pans.

Speaker 3

It gets really competitive, it gets tough, it gets tough.

Speaker 1

I mean, these are people from all over, you know, domestically, internationally.

Speaker 3

If anyone could do it, everyone could do it, but it is not easy to go to PANS and get on that podium at any level Blue, purple, brown, black. Do they have white belt divisions?

Speaker 1

I that podium at any level blue, purple, brown, black. Do they have white belt divisions? I don't know. No, no, I said, well, I think, uh. So for uh, for worlds, master worlds. I'm not sure about pants, but you may be, but I know you have to be at least blue belt, okay okay, but still the point stands.

Speaker 3

Uh, it is. At any level. It is not easy to get on that podium. Uh, for a second or a third.

Speaker 1

Do you remember if you won by points submission in that match? I know that was some time ago, right?

Speaker 3

It's like what was your favorite food as a kid. I'll go back and check for you. When you fight that many times you're fried. I think I won on points. But at that point you're just trying to stay alive After five days of jiu-jitsu, all the everything. You're just trying to stay alive. Uh, right, after five days of jiu-jitsu, all the everything you're just wiped out going into it. But I think I won on points when?

Speaker 1

when did you realize you wanted to teach? When did you get to your point? Uh, in your career, where you're like, you know what I want, I'm going to take some of this knowledge and success and pass it on well the plan was never to teach.

Speaker 3

Uh, it was to do this thing. I love compete from time to time that there was the competitive eye for a while. You know, let's, let's win the biggest title I can. That was never the plan. But uh, you look around, uh, alliance ackworth here. It was at the time a small upstart, you know they. They started brand new, just like every uh gym gym does in the early stages, and at some point my teammates were helping build the program. John Thomas, alec Balding, jeff Cumming, these are names you may have heard.

Speaker 3

But at some point I was brought into fill-in during a spring break or something. It was supposed to be a one-week thing and that's it. But I guess the students liked what I had to show, because there was a lot of demand to get this guy back here to be like a one week thing, and that's it. But I guess the students liked what I had to show because there was a lot of demand to get this guy back here teach again and again. And it was happenstance. I live very close, right. I still don't know how this happened, but I get. I kept getting conned into coming back, coming back, coming back, until here we are, 10 plus years later. Now I'm doing it all the time, one of my favorite things every day here all the time, like I didn't. Who knew it could be like this? That's so cool and you're still competing, right?

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, I mean you, so it was. I believe you showed me it was your 2023. It was worlds or pans. You showed me that was master, that was master worlds. Yeah, so I mean, that was what a year and some change ago. If that so awesome, awesome.

Speaker 3

Love to go back next year and take first this time?

Speaker 1

Yeah, so are you? Have you decided on that?

Speaker 3

That's the plan. You never know what's going to happen a year out, but tentatively that's the plan, barring some unforeseen thing. But yeah, that'd be so cool to go out there and win it this time 100% cool to go go out there and, uh, win it.

Speaker 1

This time 100 and and shifting now kind of to to another topic or section, here is so, uh, I think sometimes there's a misconception when, uh, you, you get your black belt, that all you know challenges and adversity are are over, and we know that's not true. But If you think back before you became a black belt, what are some of the adversities that you had to overcome mental challenge, physical challenge and maybe share with the listeners how you pushed through some of those.

Challenges and Consistency in Jiu-Jitsu

Speaker 3

Well, I think the number one challenge is trying to lead a normal life. Again, I told you I was purple belt, eventually brown black belt. You're training pretty much full-time. It is a full-time job, but I'm going to school, I'm putting myself through school, sometimes working one or two jobs and then, by the way, you've got to train full-time and keep up and stay uninjured. So what's the old saying? Life gets in the way it does. Everyone wants to be a jiu-jitsu bum, but that's a hard life, even if you do everything right, even if you win everything. Yeah.

Speaker 3

So, leading a normal life, if there is such a thing, I mean yeah challenging, but let alone everything that comes with what it takes to to train and compete at that level, and it's a lot of pressure every time you get out there, oh yeah, it's, it is, and that's, I know, especially kind of it being in the master's level.

Speaker 1

Life a hundred percent gets in the way. I mean, there was a time where I was training, you know, twice a day, three days a week, and I was like, wow, this is awesome. And then you know, uh, something simple in life happened. My kids changed schools and I needed to take them two of them in the morning, because now all four of them go to two different schools and it's our three different schools. So it happens and all we want to do is be on the mat and you know we, of course we want to spend time with our family and things, and school is huge. Where did you go?

Speaker 3

to school. I went to same as you. I thought. I thought I read that I thought, I thought I read that.

Speaker 1

I thought I read that you went to Kennesaw.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I got my bachelor's and then my master's in exercise science. Nice, here we are doing jiu-jitsu.

Speaker 1

That's exercise science, right down the road from Kennesaw. That's crazy and go Owls.

Speaker 3

Yes, any injuries or setbacks that you had to overcome. Yeah, you're pretty much battered all the time. Yeah, you're building on what we said before. We talk about, uh, life getting in the way. Well, all those things notwithstanding, it's extremely wear and tear, like they tell you to tap and you could do it and that's correct, but you go home achy. You go home with black eyes. I know I do.

Speaker 1

Uh, my long hair gets ripped every day and that's on me, yeah I've always wondered what it's like rolling like that because males get aggressive around the neck.

Speaker 3

It's on you if you get pulled. That's part of the game. At this point, you may as well ask me what haven't you injured? It's a continuous thing. You've heard people say well, you try to wait until you're uninjured. It ain't going to happen. You're never going to be uninjured. It ain't gonna happen. You're never gonna be uninjured.

Speaker 1

You just kind of nurse, whatever yeah the injury of the week is and try to do your best with that did you ever have an injury that worried you, that you're like oh my gosh, this, this may end this for me. I mean, you mentioned you mentioned the ankle locks.

Speaker 3

I got in a few that crunched them pretty bad, but nothing really catastrophic. I don't know how I've gone all this time no surgeries, no anything yeah, let's make today that. Yeah, oh man but I really believe my ankles have calcified into blocks at this point from them getting crunched so much. Uh, yeah, but you know price to pay, uh yeah you know that that's what we signed up for yeah, the juice is worth the squeeze.

Speaker 1

when it comes to jujitsu, because I'm the same way. I worry about it. I stay sore in certain parts of my body, but again, some of it's just normal wear and tear. That you're going to go through doing this four, five, six hours a week, it is what it is.

Speaker 3

And the weird irony is say you did nothing. No jiu-jitsu injuries, you'd be in worse shape 100% is say you did nothing. No, jiu-jitsu injuries, you'd be in worse shape. A hundred percent, A hundred percent. I love that. I love that you lose either way, I guess.

Speaker 1

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So. Anything else around your challenges I think you've made some really good points on. You know, life just gets in the way, because I think that's what happens with a lot of us. You know the joke is, you know, when you get your blue belt, a lot of us, you know the joke is, you know, when you get your blue belt, a lot of blue belts quit right and I think it's because of the age group, of the demographics of age group for blue belts. I was looking, so I still from kinesol, I've maintained my um subscription to statista, um and there's some like metrics and jujitsu and demographics and stuff in statista and these are pretty well researched graphics. I mean, I mean not graphics but, uh, data points. They're not just something pulled off ig but the. The blue belt range is anywhere from like 30, 32 to I think it was like 45 or something. It's like kind of like a big chunk, at least in the us.

Speaker 3

Understanding overseas, especially in brazil, you got a lot of young, younger blue belts, but if that's the case, that's the group that's prone like to have that exactly what you're talking about life happened to them and it's happened to me and you consider the range, like what, what a blue belt can be, uh, they could be borderline black belts some of them. If they were like star wrestlers beforehand. Oh yeah, it is an enormous jump and in some ways, maybe the biggest jump white to blue, even brown to black.

Speaker 1

I've met so many blue belts or I'll take that back. I've met several purple belts who have been training jiu-jitsu for 15 years and they're purple belts and where they talk about where they got hung up was at blue belt. Like life happened parent died, they became the sole single mother, father, whatever. They had to go overseas, that they were in the military and kept, the all kind of things yeah, you can't fault them for that, absolutely not.

Speaker 3

Who can maintain a single schedule for 10 years straight with no disruptions? I mean, life happens. The journey white to black is a long one, and things are going to change uh yeah but you could let it drive you crazy or just understand everyone's going through this. I'm going to do my best and maybe there will be disruptions. I'm going to get hurt sometimes, right, et cetera.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Stay the course Consistency.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so let's pivot to. So this episode is included in kind of our only podcast series to date Lessons from the Masters. And you know, when we have these conversations with black belts especially those have been black belts for a while and successful and uh, we, I like to talk to them about their, their technical mastery and uh, kind of self-development. So kind of first question how do you, how or how do you, and have you, I I guess, develop your particular style or do you have a style? Well, I mean, because some of us are a little bit good at I'm a little good at everything.

Speaker 3

Yeah, this is where we're talking philosophy, and you're going to get a different answer from anyone. You talk to your style. I think you'd agree. A lot of your personality shows on the mat Right, like some people, are very passive players.

Speaker 3

Some are very aggressive, some are recklessly aggressive, some are terrified, some are just confused. You don't know what to do and you might be some mix of these, or it might change throughout the role or who you go with, right. So I mean your personality comes out when you train, uh, I don't know. Going back to the wrestling background, they have a very aggressive attitude. You're always advancing, always coming at your partner. You are never retreating, it's always go, go, go. And that is in keeping with the submission philosophy, like the name of the game is submission you, you go in and get your kill. So a lot of guys play for points and that's fine for them. That's the right answer, but in keeping with the wrestling mentality. It's what I came up with, whether I was good at it or not. The idea is you advance, you get your kill, your pin or your submission or whatever your position first right yeah, your pin or your submission, or whatever your position, first, right yeah, you conquer your opponent, right?

Speaker 3

Not that it always goes that easy, but that's what we're going for.

Speaker 1

Right, right. Yeah, I think those are some great points, ian. Last question in this section are there any habits or routines that you believe have been crucial to your success? Is there anything you do daily?

Mastering Consistency and Mindset in Jiu-Jitsu

Speaker 3

Specifically no, you know to eat healthy, train hard, tap when you need. It's the being consistent that counts the most. It's the showing up to class. Sometimes you don't want to, but if you're not there five days a week, I mean that's a slippery slope. It happens faster than you think. So here we are, 20 something years in. You better make a habit of it. Sometimes you don't want to and maybe you're traveling, maybe you're away. You better make a way to make it happen.

Speaker 1

Right, like slot your time, block your time. That's what I do. I block my time and I say, okay, this time I'm going to be sitting with Ian recording a podcast and I'm going to train, and I'm going to be sitting with Ian recording a podcast and I'm going to train and I'm going to. You know, if I have to work a little bit later at night at my table, that's what I'm going to do, but I block it.

Speaker 3

It means making sacrifices, it means being creative, sometimes making the time, or yeah, you tell me, uh, but consistency? I would argue consistency is more important than natural talent, right? How many star talented guys have you seen? Let it go to waste, yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean, they don't, it just doesn't happen. However, whatever habits we build, we make it happen. But I think that's the same with a lot of what we do in life. If we love something, we, you know I love being at my kids games uh, they do soccer and baseball I'll make sure that, you know, no matter what, I'm there if I have to.

Speaker 3

You know, get a little less sleep that I get a little less sleep but yeah, I think that's a common thing these days is people don't want to put in the work and it's not glamorous, it's not fun, it's not easy, but that's what it takes yeah, I mean, your opponents are are training full-time.

Speaker 1

You need to at least train full-time yeah, yeah 100 or you will uh you, you won't reach the full benefits, right? Yeah, may get lucky, but you're not gonna. You're not gonna dominate the mat, so to speak. So let's uh, you know I know something you're excited to talk about is is kind of the mindset here in jujitsu and you know you've competed at some of the. There's a couple of ways to think about mindset. There's just a general mindset in jujitsu and then there's the mindset of what I call the mindset of a champion. I even talked to Leo about this on our episode and let's talk a little, spend some time around mindset, if you don't mind. Yeah, what's your mindset, either in competing or just in general?

Speaker 3

let's, let's have open discussion about mindset I think this is one of the more overlooked uh elements like take, take your uh average competitor. They're all. They all have youtube. They're all studying full-time, they're all doing all the workouts, tip-top physical condition. There's no shortage of material, right, there are a ton of great places there. And again, youtube. You could be there all day researching X guard, whatever pass you want. So the technique is there to be found. It's the mental game, it's the attitude. You hear about mind over matter. You hear about self-talk I'm going to win this Visualization. This is a big one. Or, straight up, confidence goes a long way. You watch the old videos of Leandro Lowe. He runs out there rather full of energy. He's expecting to win. He knows he's going to win the float around. Yeah, confidence, he knows, and his opponent knows watching him do this. I want to take it a step further. Okay, you highlighted this earlier in our talk you talked about. Sometimes you get into a flow like you reach this clairvoyant state in training where everything just clicks. Yeah, it happens.

Speaker 1

You can close your eyes and go and visualize a technique.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah, I think this can be trained. And again, you're going to call me crazy. That last Master World. I couldn't do it the whole time, I could only do it some of the time, but I could anticipate what they were going to do.

Speaker 1

It was automatic, like the body moved on its own, yeah, by the feeling of their body. Is that what you're saying, or could you like visualize it in your head?

Harnessing the Jiu Jitsu Flow State

Speaker 3

Both, I mean both. This is the mind over matter thing, that is cool. And when you do your daily training, yeah, you're getting the exercise, the strategy. You're training your psychic element of your mind as well. I know how crazy that sounds. No, no, and I'm probably not even using the right term, but you're training this other part of your brain. That's part of your daily training. You do it, I do it, your teammates do it, the listeners do this, and I think it can be harnessed a little bit.

Speaker 1

I don't know if that's the right word yeah, like like a flow superpower right, where you kind of um, yes, so, so so I understand. I think this is super interesting. I think the listeners are gonna, uh, you know, ease this up, I um. So so you're, you're saying that you feel like there's a point that you can reach in your, your training, right, and you're, yeah, you're training to where, because your brain has such muscle memory and have committed, you know, a, if I'm in close guard, I need to be postured up. I need to watch for this, I need to go for this. Oh, they can go'm in close guard, I need to be postured up. I need to watch for this. I need to go for this. Oh, they can go a, b and C and I need to be like you can visualize it. Is that what we're talking?

Speaker 3

about? Yes, and you are reading your opponent, like their movements and what they're going to do at the same time. Uh, so I don't know if, joe forgive me, I'm trying to say this the best I can. I don't know if clairvoyance and telepathy are the right words, but yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, this happens. This is a known observed phenomena. It is not understood. I don't claim to understand it, but there's something happening have you?

Speaker 1

have you met other, you know, maybe black belts or higher belts?

Speaker 3

this experience, something similar yes, yeah, I mean you hear that you talked about the flow yep state.

Speaker 1

It happens all right, and your understanding of it might be different from mine, but I think we all know this happens on some level yeah, I, I obviously I don't think I've experienced that yet, but then again I'm, you know, I don't have nearly as many matches and competition, stuff like that.

Speaker 1

But I will say this one of the things I've started to do and and I'm talking about like this well, maybe in the last month I started doing this is when, so, how we learn technique here at Alliance and probably every other jiu-jitsu place is, you know, you as a professor, show us the technique, and then you say, okay, go practice it with your opponent, and then so I'll do a few rounds where I'm, you know, one step two, step three, and then, and then I'll close my eyes and I'll see myself. You know I won't talk through the numbers and and I don't know if it's going to, but it's something I've committed to to seeing if that works and helps, because, like, when you're exhausted and you're just like you can't think about it, it takes something deeper at that point.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it does, it does, and I think that the telepathy I can't even say the word and clairvoyance or whatever that is, are like kind of the inner my kids watch. When they were growing up they watched Kung Fu Panda, right Okay, and you may not have seen this, but you know, there's this, this. Uh, it's almost like a dream state that they get in and poe the panda is closing his eyes, blocking all the stuff that the the bad guy's doing and he's not. It's almost like he's not there, he's going through the motion. So, like I think about that and I I could easily see how something like that would play in part with jiu-jitsu.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I don't think this is some. I'm a practical guy, joe, I'm not talking some hippy-dippy thing, right, but this is a known and observed and not understood phenomena. But I think it can be harnessed, yeah, to an extent. How do you?

Speaker 1

foresee it being harnessed. Like are you talking about in the academies and and being taught? Are you talking about individuals understanding that this is a level that they, they could strive for and get to?

Speaker 3

well, you hear uh hickson talk about uh the breathing exercises to focus himself and that's his way he does it and I think everyone has their thing that gets them in the zone. For me, I've always been a cardio guy, so I like to focus on my heartbeat and when you're about to compete, you can feel it thumping in your chest. Or sitting around casually like this, you can focus, but you can feel it, your heart, thumping in your chest.

Speaker 3

That's my version right, I'm sure there are a hundred other ways to do this, but you know you got to find your way to focus and not that it's that easy. I think it takes training, and this is part of your training daily. Think of the next time you're completely fried and you got nothing, but you still pull it out yeah that's your deeper part of your and I think that's where a flow state like you're talking about is.

Speaker 1

That's what's going to make the difference between you and your opponent yeah, um, there are all kinds of terms for this well, maybe, maybe you make up your own term. It's the, it's the, the ian flow, the ian mcpherson flow state. And then you go to bjj fanatics and what you're showing all this, and there's instructionals.

Speaker 3

Well, there are people who do this way, way, way better than I do. Look at some of the champs. Tell me they don't do this. Oh yeah, all right. Tell me they don't. You know they have to.

Speaker 1

Well, you mentioned you mentioned Hicks and Gracie I it was uh, is it breathe? And then there was another one uh, I think it was breathe. But he's got a couple books and they're amazing and he was talking about when he started. Uh, you know, we went and started learning how to breathe and and focus on that like just the whole this whole life change, not just on the mat but off the mat as well yeah, so we go through the motions, we go through the exercises, the mechanics of whatever your technique is.

Speaker 3

But if it were a simple flow chart, you know we could write the flow chart and that would be jujitsu yeah, they're out there the mind maps and stuff like yeah, it's not that simple. I mean yeah there's a lot going on there and meanwhile you're doing it to me back when we're training. So I mean right, so how high is up?

Speaker 1

yeah, so when you enter that state in a in a match, um, are you? Are you? Do you feel like you know where you are, or like are your eyes closed? Are you just? I mean, are you like poe and just like countering? And I mean, what, what is it? What does it feel like?

Speaker 3

no, it is difficult. It's still hard work. It's still a tiring match.

Speaker 1

You know you're still gonna get so it doesn't like just open up and you're like oh, I know, I've got this.

Speaker 3

No, it's not like you. Just everything falls into place, it's. It's difficult, for me at least, because I don't think I do it that well, right, but I think it can be trained, gotcha okay, yeah, I, I think that's.

Speaker 1

I love, uh, that you, you brought this up. It's not something that I've heard a lot about, but man, that's, that's really really cool, and I think that if something like that can be repeated, or, uh, if practitioners can harness that, as you, as you say, I think that's, that's game changing.

Speaker 3

Well, this is something I've been wanting to talk about for a while, but I've been afraid no one will believe me.

Speaker 3

But frankly, but frankly, I'm done worrying what the jujitsu community at large thinks of me, and they can take it or leave it, but I think if we look at the grades, you see they do it and I think this is going to become more of a thing going forward. People smarter than either of us will understand this better. I think we're going to see this more in the coming years and this beyond just jiu-jitsu.

Speaker 1

We're we're looking at the jiu-jitsu lens because that's our focus, this is our theme right but I mean, you could picture it so you, so you talk about harnessing it are, are, you are? Is there something that you're doing in your life that you're like, well, maybe, maybe I can harness this and improve on this and make sure that this happens more often, because it doesn't sound like it's something that you, you, you know how to activate, it just kind of activates.

Speaker 3

I'm just trying to train my best every day, you know and if it happens, it happens right it organically clicks sometimes, or doesn't. I have a feeling. I'll never fully understand it, but it's kind of cool to use a deeper part of your brain. Uh yeah, you don't usually, usually use and I think it makes a difference in daily training and I think it certainly makes a difference competing right, yeah I.

Speaker 1

So we use what 10 of our brain? I think they say so we've heard. I don't know that seems so low and we do a lot of amazing things anyway what if it were 100? Yeah, have you ever seen that movie? Uh, I think it's called lucy, with uh scarlett joe hansen, I think I think yeah never saw it, man, that's awesome yeah, so she.

Speaker 1

It's long story short, she. She ends up in this drug gets in her body that's supposed to like allow you to maximize 100 of your brain and basically she ends up transcending and like evaporating into like air, but she's everywhere like a kind of like a god particle or something. But anyway, it's pretty, pretty interesting.

Speaker 3

I was like oh, that's a really glamorous hollywood.

Speaker 1

I mean exactly, I'm thinking like I wonder what that would do for my jujitsu, but anyway, maybe I just stay in a flow state. Well, hey, I know you and I have to train. I want to get to a couple other things, any anything else you want to share around philosophy or kind of the mental state. You've made some amazing points and insights here.

Speaker 3

I think we've covered all the important points I want to cover. Unless you have questions for me, we'll do this as long as you want.

Speaker 1

Actually I want to move into kind of our rapid fire section. I do this with the black belts and the masters and professors that come on for this series. Just a few, few quick questions to let our listeners and myself get to know you a little more. Um, are you a gi or no gi guy?

Speaker 3

I already know the answer, but gi, gi, thank you, but yeah, I appreciate that. No gi, but you know gi, because that's what I've always known favorite submission, and why I mean.

Speaker 1

I know what the internet says, but is that true?

Speaker 3

I'm known as a leg lock guy. I never thought of myself as one. I think I'm a plot or a clock joker.

Balancing Jiu-Jitsu and Other Interests

Speaker 1

My, my yeah, that's what I've seen you do in competition I tell you they work.

Speaker 3

I'm a short guy, very heavy.

Speaker 1

I don't have the the leg length or the flexibility to do a triangle, but uh why do you think you got known for your leg locks and toe holds and stuff like that? Is it just maybe something somebody who writes BJJ here on BJJ heroes?

Speaker 3

I mean, that's where I saw it. So I think the only reason is because, uh, I hit a few of them early on, when they were largely not known, uh, and someone thought that was cool and ran with it. I do them, I like them.

Speaker 1

I just never thought of myself as a at the time you had a really good PR person.

Speaker 3

All right, I don't know how that happened, but you know, here we are and you could have a worse reputation. I think so, yeah.

Speaker 1

Well, cause everybody's going to be afraid of the leg locks and then they're going to get clock choked, hopefully. So what is one thing you like to do outside of jiu-jitsu? Because for me, my hobby is jiu-jitsu, for you, it's your lifestyle. What do you like to do other than jiu-jitsu?

Speaker 3

I love distance running which, as it happens, is complementary to jiu-jitsu. 100% it is a cardio game. People subscribe to uh strength training, but tell me it's not cardio have you ever done?

Speaker 1

I have a friend, um, she did a ultra like one of the ultras, and have you ever done an ultra? I mean, do you know what that?

Speaker 3

is oh yeah, oh yeah, not that distance, I'm talking like six, seven, eight miles.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, so yeah, I couldn't even do that relative yeah I could not believe she ran that that long and she's, she's into all the the crazy like super long distances. She's doing a hundred mile bike ride coming up and it's just crazy. I thought jujitsu was hard, oh yeah, I've been telling her to do jujitsu, but she well one.

Speaker 3

Her life is super busy, but it's, uh, it's, she would dominate the mats yeah, just that kind of endurance is way too catabolic for what we're doing, and oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'd kill you um, that'd be a provocative thought. Decades from now, but not yet.

Speaker 1

Not now what's uh did you? Can you think about, uh, who your toughest opponent was and why? I know you've had a lot, but is there one that stands out? Maybe you don't know their name, but maybe it was. At a certain competition or something like that.

Speaker 3

I had a heartbreaking close loss to Eduardo Tellez. I mean I lost 0-0,. So it's not like he killed me.

Speaker 1

Rest in peace.

Speaker 3

Or maybe advantages, I think.

Speaker 1

Advantages okay.

Speaker 3

It was close. That was one of my first black belt matches and I had no concept. I heard this was a good guy.

Speaker 1

I didn't know who eduardo was, or what till after. It's one of the best in the world.

Speaker 3

Yeah, one of your first matches to draw this guy of all people, I mean what an honor at the same time, but you hate to lose under any circumstances yeah but again, as I was telling you earlier, I've gotten my butt kicked in every awful, painful, humiliating way in the world at this point, so you're going to be way more specific if you want to know which is the worst.

Speaker 1

Yeah, there have been some bad ones fires, and it caveats right off of this. Who would you like to train with most and this can be anyone past, present, and why it could be. I would like to roll with them. I would like to go to seminar. Who would you like to be? Uh well, just who would you like to train with the most?

Speaker 3

uh, I don't know if this is going to sound disrespectful, but if there were a time travel way to roll with jacques ray himself when he was a young man, in his prime how interesting would that be to try the man himself and I, and I'm not calling him out, I'm not you seek people cause you respect them and I have the utmost respect for Jacre and what he's done and the competitor he was and he was an ultra marathon guy himself uh, back in the day or something, something to this effect, he was the real deal.

Speaker 3

That's awesome. We know him as the friendly godfather he is.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

I get the sense he was a brutal killer at the time, oh yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I am so humbled and lucky because the people that I I guess at least right now want to meet and train with I get to, you know, like Leo and Rodrigo is amazing. I didn't know like how big Rodrigo was in like the community and then like it's just amazing.

Speaker 3

That's so cool. We're still at this stage. You can seek out pretty much anyone in the jiu-jitsu community and work with them and meet them. That is so cool and the community is so good at staying connected and open.

Speaker 1

And especially, you know, they don't look at me as like who's this guy? Like he's been doing jiu-jitsu two days. I'm not going to talk to him, you know, but it's not, it's. It's so amazing they've been there.

Speaker 3

They were a white belt at 1.2. They yeah. So I think they understand and they empathize how difficult it is at every stage of the process. 100 and it is a collaborative thing like we need the whole community to make it make it worse.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah. So let's uh listen. This has been an amazing, amazing conversation, ian, and again just super humbled and excited and grateful that you came on.

Speaker 3

Well, and what an honor to be with you, joe Truly. Thank you for having me.

Embracing the Jiu-Jitsu Journey

Speaker 1

This has been more than a pleasure for myself wrap up is do you have any advice for? Well, let's say this many of our listeners are white belts and blue belts and kind of in that first year to maybe four years of you know experience. What advice would you give them to stay motivated, to stay consistent? Especially progress can, let's be honest, seem slow, and any closing thoughts you may have, yeah, I have a few answers to this.

Speaker 3

I'm going to give you the best one I can. It's celebrate and enjoy the good times.

Speaker 1

I love that.

Speaker 3

Like you, take home a silver from the Atlanta Open. That's a huge accomplishment. All right, do not undersell that, that is a big deal. All right, do not undersell that, that is a big deal. All right, you promote, you get a stripe, go celebrate. I mean, make a big deal out of it Because, let's face it, we love jiu-jitsu, we love it, but it's the hardest thing there is. I mean, it's fraught with injuries and setback and humiliation and every yucky thing in the world, let's yucky thing in the world. Uh, let's really make the most of the good times because honestly they are few and far between right.

Speaker 1

I mean truly uh, or your teammate wins. I mean I get excited.

Speaker 3

Oh yeah, because that was not easy for either of you and you contributed to that. That victory of his as well. Like that, you were part of that.

Speaker 1

So celebrate the good times really, and I don't care what bell you are white belt, black belt it's meaningful and it is not easy, at any level, at any stage, at any age yeah, so enjoy the wins, enjoy the little things, stay positive, yeah, and that's the things I tell myself to keep going to well, ian, thank you again this was awesome, joe. Thank you likewise yeah, let's go, let's go get some training in man all right, don't hurt me too bad and that's the final tap on today's episode of caffeinated jujitsu.

Speaker 2

a big thanks to all of our listeners, especially today's insightful guest, for sharing their bjj knowledge and tales. If you felt that adrenaline rush and are hungry for more, hit, subscribe, drop a review and spread the jujitsu buzz. For show notes and to contact the host, reach out to the email provided in the podcast description and to join our grappling community, head over to Instagram. Get those geese, crisp your coffee strong and always be prepared for the next roll Oss.

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