1 Timothy: Character, Calling, and the Weight of Leadership

First Timothy is blunt, practical, and surprisingly modern and that’s why we love it. Tim Lansford and Dr. Dean Posey unpack why these Pastoral Letters read like personal coaching notes from Paul to a younger leader trying to hold the line in Ephesus, a spiritually complicated city with loud competing beliefs and constant pressure to compromise.

We talk about why good theology isn’t “extra credit” for leaders but the foundation that shapes judgment, resilience, and culture. You’ll hear why leaders are often placed in hard places for hard reasons, how a clear conscience helps you endure external chaos, and how leadership decay usually starts with small drift in character or teaching. We also dig into Paul’s insistence on prayer as a posture, including praying for rulers you may not agree with, and why “prayer without anger or quarreling” is really about humility, tone, and spiritual credibility.

From qualifications for elders and deacons to the famous “don’t let anyone despise your youth,” we connect the dots to leadership today: character beats charisma, integrity at home matters, and respect is earned by example, not demanded by title. We close with Paul’s warning about money and motives, the line “godliness with contentment is great gain,” and the long-game call to mentor the next generation. If you like thoughtful leadership talk with a few dad jokes along the way, you’re in the right place. Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review so more leaders can find the show.

Transcript

Tempo: 120.0

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

All righty. Welcome. Welcome and uh welcome, Tim. How are you doing there, brother? Wonderful. How are you doing, Dr. P? I am doing fantastic. That's great. Tim Lansford and Dr. Dean Posey live with you, you know, on uh the Biblical Leadership Show.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Yes. How are you doing today, brother?

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Wonderful. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 0:49

I'm doing fantastic. So today we're gonna talk about the book of First Timothy.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

But let me give a You know, I'm a big fan of First Timothy for some reason. I don't know. I'm excited to see what I don't know about First Timothy. So yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

It's a good it's a good book. So let me just give a a shout-out to those who are listening for the very first time. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us and uh hope you enjoy the show, especially the dad jokes we're gonna share.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Yes, dad, dad jokes, dad jokes, dad jokes.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

But uh we've been uh doing this for about two and a half years, and um and so one of the main things that we do is is right now we have gone through or going through the entire Bible one book at a time.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

What?

SPEAKER_04 1:36

Yeah, and we're talking about the leadership principles in every book. So we started this about a year and a half ago. Well, this August will be two years of the Bible. Before that, we did a year of of other types of material. Um, but every like today we're gonna talk about First Timothy, talk about the leadership principles that can be applied from that book to our lives today, whether you are leading a corporation, whether you're leading your family, whether you're leading your softball team, swim team, bowling league, whatever it may be. Um, and uh we hope that this is beneficial to you. Plus, we throw in some dad jokes along the way.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

We do throw some dad jokes in. So why? Because we have them in front of us.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

So that's exactly right. We have a lot of dad jokes.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

I I have I actually have more dad jokes now because I found you know two or three books laying around, and and uh yeah, so I'm I'm good on dad jokes, even though it doesn't seem right to you know take away you getting through your 2,000 dad jokes, you know. So I don't have time to read mine. So I'll do the third and fourth year, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:47

So okay, that sounds good. So welcome again to the Biblical Leadership Show and uh hope you enjoy it. And if you do, just uh share it with some people. Yeah, subscribe, and uh we come out once a week, normally on Tuesdays just before noon at Central Time. We are located in the Dallas Four Worth area. Yeah, and uh it's a great day, great day today.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

It is just came off a good Easter. Yes, you have a good Easter.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

We had a fantastic Easter weekend. Our daughter was here from uh Washington, DC, and and it was uh it's always good to be with your kids. It is, and we enjoyed being with her, and uh she was here for work um and through last uh Wednesday, and then we picked her up in Dallas and and then uh she flew home just the you know like yesterday. And so uh it was just good. It was good to be with her and just have some fun. We played some uh uh chicken foot or we played some uh chicken. It's the domino game. And uh yeah, Mexican train. And we we just like playing dominoes. We've been playing dominoes, oh my gosh, since the kids were little. Yeah, yeah, and we just like it. Just having fun with your family, sitting around, you know, and just having fun and and uh visited uh my mother-in-law, um, you know, and uh our daughter doesn't get to see her very often, so it was good uh for them to connect and catch up. So that was good. That's awesome. Really good. What about you? You have a good Easter?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, yeah. I had a big Easter celebration, had all the family in, and it was uh it's always a good time. I love love holidays when everybody can get together. You know, it's everybody leads busy lives. I'm not too far away from most everyone, but we just don't get together enough, you know, and then that's just we always go in different directions.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

So yeah, so it's always good occasionally to get together with many as many family people as you can. Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Um for sure. So Timothy, again, we're we're I'm a big fan of Timothy, but I think first you probably have to uh break in some dad jokes here, right? You know we've got to do some you don't want to go straight into Timothy? You you you know you want to go straight into Timothy without some dad jokes or not a chance.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

No, uh I mean we do dad jokes because we can. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

So what kind of cows do you find in Alaska?

SPEAKER_04 5:14

Cold ones?

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Frozen beef, no. Um Eskimoos. Eskimoos. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

Oh well.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

How come you never see penguins in Great Britain?

SPEAKER_04 5:29

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Because they're always afraid of whales. That'd be for my friend. One of my couple of my friends listen out of uh Wales. So there we go. I threw that one in for you guys, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So so I've got some, I'll share them late later. Later. Yeah, later. Let's get to let's get to uh First Timothy. Now, before we get to Timothy, okay, I just I just want to say a few things about the book and why it's different than some of the other books that Paul wrote. Um and this this book, First Timothy, and then next week we'll do uh Second Timothy, and the following week after that we do Titus. Those three books are called the Pastoral Letters. Okay. So if you think about the other books that Paul wrote, not Philemon, but you know, have Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, those books before First Timothy were written to church, the church as a church. Okay. Um, and so they were read to the entire congregation of the church. Um and there might have been more than one church in Rome, they were passed around, shared, but in the book of Timothy, and there's two letters to Timothy and one to Titus, Timothy was uh commissioned by Paul to be the head of the church in the city of Ephesus, um, which is a very familiar in the New Testament time. Um and then um Titus was commissioned to work with the church in this in in Crete. So they both went to these situations uh facing some significant challenges. So Paul wrote these letters to the person of Timothy or Titus, not to the church. And so those three are grouped together in the New Testament in that specific order uh for a specific reason because they're different than Paul writing to the church. And so they're called the pastoral letters, um, and rightly so, because he gives some significant pastoral advice. These uh two men were young disciples of Paul, um and we see that Paul met Timothy on his second missionary journey when he was in Lystra. We see that in uh second, I mean in Acts chapter 16, verses 1 through 3. Um and um so his um father was a Greek, his his mother and his grandmother uh likely had been Christian converts um uh during Paul's first missionary journey. And here's Timothy. Um Paul took Timothy under his wing because he saw some real, even he was a young person, but he saw some real gifts in this young man. So he took him under his wing, mentored him for quite a few years, and then uh sent him to be uh the kind of the head of the church, overseer of the church in the city of Ephesus. So um, so that's kind of some background to that, and and so um uh obviously um the uh city of Ephesus uh was under Greek and Roman influence, uh the Greeks first and then the Romans at this particular time. Um and then so they were they were facing some issues just because of the culture, the religious beliefs, um and they were small in number. We don't know exactly how many, but Paul had started the church there, and so and he spent a lot of time in Ephesus on his journeys, and and so now he's sending Paul I love that Ephesus called a spiritual, spiritually uh a spirit spiritually complicated city.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Yes, that's coming up that right. And I love the way that was that was phrased. That made me smile.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

So yeah, and just think think of today, okay? The United States is a spiritually complicated country, even though we're founded on Christian Judeo-Christian beliefs, but now, uh, you know, 250 years later, um, there is a multitude of religion or non-religion. Um we see a growing trend in in a name called nuns, which they have no religious beliefs, there's you know, none. Um and I I read I saw on the news today there's a uptick in and uh young people coming back to the Catholic Church, which to me was very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

It's very exciting. Very exciting.

SPEAKER_04 10:34

And so, but back then you were facing some Greek uh influence, you were facing some Roman influence. They had all the Greek gods, the Roman gods. Um, and and so Paul started a church with a very small group of people, and it evidently had been growing, but you have some hundreds of years of tradition with other religious beliefs. Now you're starting a new religion, uh religious beliefs under Christ. And so there was obviously some challenges that Paul faced, now Timothy is facing. And so Paul is writing this letter to Timothy, encouraging him uh in the some of the same way that we see in Second Timothy and in Titus, that there needs to be strong leadership, uh very pastoral and compassionate and encouraging leadership, but you've got to be sure that you have good theology. Yeah because good theology makes good leaders, bad theology makes bad leaders, and and so that's basically a kind of an overview of the book of Timothy.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Yeah, and when I read Timothy 1, I didn't just see a church late church letter, I saw sort of a leadership manual in in that they were trying to put in place here. I thought that was very unique the way it was written.

SPEAKER_04 11:56

So yes, uh Paul was just a brilliant scholar, okay? He just was brilliant. I mean, he knew the Old Testament backwards and forwards. Obviously, the New Testament hasn't been put together yet, so uh, even though Paul was a big part of that, but it hadn't been put together. You have some letters, and but you basically had the old testament. He knew it backwards and forwards, but he had a brilliant mind on organization, on character qualities, uh the importance of those kind of things in leadership roles, uh, and he shares them, even though he had probably shared them with Timothy as they were traveling together, you know, going from place to place. But now Timothy's on his own. And it's it's one thing to learn in the classroom, okay, or have a mentor or uh being a disciple of somebody. But then when you're on your own and and you just think they didn't have iPhones or cell phones or computers, you know, it could take weeks or months to get a letter back to uh you know the the source to Paul, and so then he would write, and it could be it could be literally months before Timothy got the letter. So um, so Paul is trying to encourage him. And my my hunch, even though I don't know this for a fact, but my hunch is everything that Paul's writing in his letter, he probably already had spoken to Timothy on their journeys while they were walking at different places. He was talking to him about how you do it. Well, now Timothy's on his own, and Paul is trying to encourage him and reminding him of the leadership lessons that he had shared with him face to face. Uh, but now uh Timothy is like, ooh, I'm I'm doing this myself. And so, so um, you know, it's one thing to have book knowledge, but it's another thing to be mentored uh on site, you know, uh on the job training. And that's basically what uh Timothy was getting now. He was like the person in charge. Paul was not there. The only way you could communicate was through a letter that would take months to get to. And so Timothy was really looking forward to this guidance from Paul, and that's what we see here in Timothy. And it is a it's like a leadership manual. It really is well done.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Really well done. It seems like it. So yeah, and and you know, one of the things that he starts off on this, Paul goes straight to the chase, right? He's like he opens up strong, so pretty much. And then we were talking about, you know, one of the the opens is he says you need to stay there, and and you know, and and you know, the quote we talked about a little bit before, uh leaders are often assigned to hard places for hard reasons, you know? Yes, yes. And I I think that uh that there's a big message the way they he started off the letter there. It it wasn't soft easing into it, it said this is what we're here to accomplish, and this is this is something that's high priority in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

So he does not beat around the bush. I mean, he goes straight for it, no fluff, yeah. No, I mean, yes, he introduces and you know that kind of thing, but you know, he's he's right there in verse five, bam, he goes right through it. And um now, but the one thing that I find fascinating about Paul, he's so so consistent. And and so um he's he's going right into it, remain in Ephesus, uh, you know, so that you don't you can charge people not to not to do different doctrine or devote themselves to myths that are not Chris Christ-like. And um and then he he goes into just writing uh the mission of the church or the focus of the church, and that is Christ, and he's there for um forgiveness, for salvation, for new life. Uh, he's just reminding, even though Timothy already knew that lesson, but he's just reminding him of the value of the mission. And I think good leaders do that. Um every so often you just have to remind people um in a in a good encouraging way what the mission of the church is or the mission of your business or your organization. Um you know, and some people think the mission is to just make as much money as possible. Well, that's that to me is a byproduct of a good culture.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Sure doing when it is.

SPEAKER_04 16:41

Yeah, and a good quality, um, building relationships with the staff, having a tight-knit, you know, group of people that just care for each other, work together for a common goal. Uh, yes, and if you have that, money's gonna follow. So if you focus this on money, we've talked about this many times, Tim. If you focus it on money, uh people are gonna get this message real clear that the money, the bottom line is more important than them. And you're gonna have bad morale, you're gonna have uh poor performance, and then you're wondering what the problem is, and then you try to work your workers harder, and morale gets worse. And so you've got to flip that thing on its head and really focus on the quality of your people. And that's what that's what Paul is saying. Hey, you want to focus on the quality and the character of your leaders. Um, and so he said right off the bat.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Yeah, and one of the the big phrases came out in the letter, and I I loved it, and I made sure I noted it. A leader can survive a lot externally if they are clear internally before God. But once conscious is compromised, leadership starts to decay from the inside. So he's setting them up for endurance. You know, he's setting them up for success and say this is gonna be a long battle, right?

SPEAKER_04 18:02

Yes, and the reason is Paul knew, I mean, he met Timothy. We don't know the exact day, but it was probably in the around the early 50s.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

It was a Tuesday, it was a Timothy. I've been sighting Tim on Tuesdays, yeah. Tacos Tuesday. They met they were having some tacos, right?

SPEAKER_04 18:19

Exactly right. So um, but it it was probably around the early 50s, you know, uh 50, 52, somewhere around 54, something that early part of Paul's ministry. He was on the second journey. Um, but now we're several years later, Paul knows that he cannot be every place that he needs to be.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:43

Um, he doesn't know how much longer he's gonna be around. Um so he is he's still in prison at this point, right? He is, and so he is trying to communicate to Timothy as best as he can, uh, because he's thinking, okay, Timothy, I might not be back there, but you're gonna be there, and I want you to set you set set you up for success for decades, not just a year, not just like, okay, I'm gonna do this for two years and get out of here. No, I want to set you up for long-term success. And then I want to set you up so that you can have the next generation be just as successful or even more so. So that's what Paul is intending to do. He tried to do that with every church that he started. He wanted it, it was a long game, you know, it was a marathon, it wasn't a sprint, and um, so he had a long game plan, and and he and he shares that with Timothy, and it's very, very, very profound. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:47

Okay, we're done. Dad jokes. Time for dad jokes. Is it it's it's never not time for dad jokes.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Exactly, right. All right, so when he goes into uh chapter two here, he begins with prayer, and I think that's uh I've noted that that was very significant, right? Because um before he gets into the structure, he gets into like a spiritual posture in a way, right?

SPEAKER_04 20:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

He's talking about prayer for everybody, yeah, 100%, including uh kings, right? And and everybody that was in those high positions, it wasn't just uh uh the little guys, it was all the way. So he's like really making sure that everybody understands what he's saying.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

And what a profound thing to say that even if you don't agree with your leader, even if you don't agree with their policies, their priorities, you still lift them up in prayer. You still pray for them. Okay. So he's saying, hey, you need to pray for the leaders of your city, you need to pray for the leaders of Rome. You just need to be in the in the spirit of prayer. And what's gonna happen, underlying in between the words, lines, is if you're praying for those people, you're gonna live a life of prayer, you're gonna live a life of humility, and and it's gonna it's gonna show in the way you act and live your life, which is actually gonna be a magnet for other people to join you in the cause. Uh if you go violently, there might be some people, but it's not sustainable.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:22

And so he's thinking it's not just about the prayer, it's about the lifestyle that that you know uh makes and the fact that that is gonna be an attraction for other people to say, wow, there's something about them that makes me want to be like them. And that's what's Paul also thinking about.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yeah, and and you you mentioned the word anger, and it's one of the things that he states in the letters. I Ben should um should pray without anger or quarreling. You know, that's you know, practical. He dresses posture, tone, and spirit, right? And how you go about it is just not uh One of the things that uh you you spiritual leadership is is never about the content, it's about the disposition, I guess, is is sort of what the position of the heart, not the position of the body.

SPEAKER_04 22:12

Um and and so humility and realizing that there is a bigger force than me in the world.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:19

And I'm just talking talking about um the kings or whatever, the rulers of the country. I'm talking about the fact that the Holy Spirit is here and um very powerful force, and we're submitting to that force, and we're allowing that force to basically live through us in our lives.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yeah, and then um chapter three, um they they talk about this as this starts laying out the qualifications for the uh I guess the overseers and and deacons back then, right? Is that right?

SPEAKER_04 22:57

Elders and deacons, and and so he's talking about the fact that if you are not a let's just say a good back then very male-dominated society. So you're talking about men, but if you um are not a person of integrity at home, right? How are you gonna be in an integrity as a church leader? So it's not just because they considered uh the church and we think of it different sometimes, which is unfortunate. We think of a church as a building. No, it's a people. The people are the church, the building is where you meet. Okay. Um and so he's thinking, no, being a Christian is a lifestyle, it's not just something you do on Sunday. So it so you're not just going to be a leader of your biological family, you're a leader in God's family. And it needs to be consistent. You don't need to be one way at home and one way at the church, you need to be the same person 24-7. And so Paul was saying, no, you need to find people that are already that way, not that are gonna be that way or promise to be that way, no, who have proven who have proven to be that way. So we think about the book of Acts. This is, I mean, this is very true. We see this in the book of Acts. So when Judas uh died, they had to replace the the 12th apostle with someone to take his place. So there would be 12 apostles. And and uh they they drew lots and all this kind of stuff between two people. But here's the thing: they were saying, we want somebody who's been with us from the beginning, from the baptism of John up till now. We don't want just someone who's just joined us last week, right? We want someone who's been through it, who's been committed the entire, lived the lifestyle, seen all this stuff, been a part of all that stuff for years. And that's what Paul is saying here. You need people that have been, you know, proven to be true with character, um, for a long, long time, not just a new convert, not just someone who can't live up to, you know, these kind of things.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yeah, somebody, and I take it as leadership, as somebody that's been elevated to the position because they're charismatic or or they they're a smooth talker, they seem very polished. He's he's looking and he actually asks a question, I think. Um, can this person be trusted with people, right? You know, and yes, it's it's not, you know, it do we have that that character before the position, you know?

SPEAKER_04 25:44

Yes, and so leaders need to be servants of a household, the a servant leadership that Jesus modeled, and also servants of the household of God. Yeah. And that's what he's looking for. So character is better than charisma. And he looked in for someone that with that solid proven character.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Mm-hmm. Yeah, 100%. Now it's yeah, and it's not a stage for an ego, is one of the notes that I had down here, right?

SPEAKER_04 26:12

No, it's not. So we go into chapter four, which I think this is such a profound statement. And in chapter four, verse twelve, um excuse me, when he says, Hey, don't let anybody despise you because of your youth. Now we don't know exactly how old Timothy was. Okay. We don't know. But we know he'd been traveling with Paul for quite some time. Um and yet he was probably still younger than but back then a younger was a hundred, right? No, that'd be in Noah's day, not now. But he could have been in his 30s, you know, 35. He could have been 30, 40, we don't know. But chances are he was younger than the leaders he was looking for. And so some people would say, and they still say it today, that oh, he's just new, you know. He's he's he, yes, he, yes, he got his MBA from Harvard, but he's only been in the business for six years. So they look at their age, not their their potential, not their qualifications, not their experience, not their wisdom. They have the age be a determining factor. Right. And and but Paul is saying, that's not no, that doesn't float with me. You know, you need to look at you, Timothy, don't let people despise you because of your age. You're gonna be younger than some of them, but don't let that don't let that bother you. Don't let it get under your skin. So I just think that's a good lesson.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Yeah, and and one of the things that he he makes the like the emphasis point on that is he tells him not to demand the respect, right? Don't go out there and uh, you know, beat your hands on your chest and say, I need the respect because I'm doing he goes, earn it, you know, and live in such a way to be the example where you get that credibility. And I think that's one of the biggest things as a leader, you know, it just it's just sort of like having the title compared to actually earning it and being the true leader of your group or the organization or wherever it might be.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

Yes, and so I think Paul was so aware of this, he'd seen it probably too many times. Leadership failure normally starts in one of two places. One place is that your life begins to drift. Okay, you compromise, you might lie, you you do something that's not really right. It's just a little stepping stone, just a little bit here and a little bit there, whatever, and before long that ship is way off course. So your life could begin to drift, or your teaching or your leadership begins to drift, and you compromise the mission, or you say, Well, that's gonna be okay this time, or whatever. So those are huge things, and and Paul is encouraging Timothy, don't let either of those drift. Stay true to your character, be godly, be a godly man, live it 24-7. Uh not in a boastful way, not of I'm better than you thing, but a very humble way, quiet way, and let be an example for others. And then make sure that your teaching does not drift. Do not be influenced by the Roman culture, the Greek culture, whatever influence. You stay true to the gospel and you will do well.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yeah. So yeah, growth doesn't happen by accident. I think that's one of the biggest things. And and you know, and and Paul states train yourself for godliness, you know, and nobody just drifts into godliness. It's something you have to train. You have to yeah, be very intentional. So I think that's that's strong language.

SPEAKER_04 29:57

So and so then uh we come into uh chapter five. And um he's talking about how to treat people, older men, younger men, older women, younger women. Um tell them to treat him with dignity and respect.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

And I think one of the things that stood out, and I was gonna talk to you about this, is you know, he talks about a pastoral heart, you know, and and I mean that's that's your life, you know. You you have that heart. And how do you think, you know, we have a lot of people that are uh in the church that listen to us, you know, how do you think that somebody develops that? Do you think it comes natural? You know, because you know, we talk about it, you know, you just don't drift into it. You you feel it as a calling or something. Is there a way to train it? Do you do you, you know, is it about reading books or talking to people? Or how how what advice that you might have for them?

SPEAKER_04 30:51

All the above.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:52

Okay. I I'll just tell a personal story for me. Um, and it was a hard lesson for me to learn. But um, when I was in seminary and over in Atlanta, I went to Emory Um University in Atlanta, Candler School of Theology. Um, and one of the things I really liked about the training there was on Mondays, we did not have class in the classroom. Um, we were assigned to be a chaplain um at different facilities. So um we were at like one year I was a chaplain for the entire year at a senior citizen center. Really? One time I was uh chaplain. This was like uh I was a chaplain at a um at the hospital. Uh and at that particular semester, I was there spending the night every third or fourth night. There was that actual room in the hospital. Well, when I first started the ministry, I just thought ministry was about preaching and teaching. You know, I didn't I didn't really know how to do the business of the church. I hadn't really thought that through. I didn't really understand the importance of being a pastor. I thought as a preacher, um, you had to learn that you have to be both. Um, and so the pastoral side of it, visiting people in the hospitals, going to their surgeries, uh, going to their homes, um, you know, being with them when they're going through difficult times, um, you know, when they have uh going through a divorce or losing a spouse or losing a child, um, that is absolutely crucial because you are being with them in those difficult times and you're telling them that, hey, you're not alone in this. Um But at first, when I first got out, I even though I had that experience as a chaplain there for four years, um, I I didn't really comprehend the significance of going to the hospitals. So I did not place a lot of emphasis on that. I would do it, but it wasn't really like I need to do this, or it was like, okay, I have to do this. Um, but over time I began to realize that that is just as crucial, sometimes even more, than preaching, uh, because you're really developing those relationships, those deep relationships with people. And so um so at the end of my ministry, um really I'd I'd say the last starting, I don't know what year, but I was in the hospital every day just because I saw the value of being with people. Um, and if someone was in the hospital, I was there. If someone was um having surgery, I was there. Um and I began to prioritize that over time. It took me a while to learn that, but over time I began to realize the importance of the pastoral side of ministry. I wish I had learned that and had a passion for it at the beginning, but I didn't. It was a hard lesson for me to learn. And uh I think that's what Paul is telling Timothy. Hey, it's not just the teaching part, it's the pastoral relationships that you've got to, you know, you've got to really build.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

And I know it's important with you because I I, you know, since you've been retired, I can't even tell you how many times that oh, I had to go visit this person and this person, and then you know, it's been multiple times per week that you're still going to the hospitals and seeing some of your people and some of your friends and everything.

SPEAKER_04 34:27

So well, some of these people we've known for 25, 30 years. Yeah, you know, and and so it's not like I'm doing it as a pastor, I just feel like we're doing it as a friend.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Right.

SPEAKER_04 34:38

You know, um, whether going to the hospital for their surgery, picking up someone from cancer treatment, um, you know, whatever it is, um, talking to them because they're going through a difficult time. It just I had to learn that. Even though I was taught it, I didn't it didn't really grasp my soul. Um, but it did eventually, thank goodness. And and I can just thank God that that I learned that lesson because I think it makes you a better pastor. And so, and so I think Paul is saying, hey, it's not just about teaching, you know, that's important. Right. You have to teach correct doctrine.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's good stuff, right? Yeah, he's saying that you gotta go through the deep in your heart, right? You know, and it's it's more about what where you're at, you know, and how you go about it, right? So he got all choked up on that. I did, yeah. He's you know, he's been all retired and you know, he thought about it.

SPEAKER_04 35:41

Yeah, but I think Paul's emphasizing that to Timothy. It's about relationships. It's uh you're a family of God, you take care for each other as a family.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Yeah. And then uh, you know, he goes into uh, you know, the the the sixth um chapter here, and yeah, and I think that's um you know it gets a little strong, you know, because he's he's he's uh sort of given some of the strongest warnings in this letter, you know, that he does. It sort of talks about the uh the false motives and the the controversy, and then he has that that famous line, godliness with contentment is great gain. And uh, you know, he he you know he puts a you know like a challenge out to leaders that are attempted, you know, that are all about that that dollar self-interest or something that there's more to this, you know, from a churchly uh godlin godly nature, right?

SPEAKER_04 36:41

Correct. So um it's still prominent today that we think contentment will happen if we have more things. Right. Um but the most important things in life are not things, yeah. They're relationships. And Paul is saying, hey, uh your relationship with God is number one, your relationship with your biological family is number two, and your relationship with the church is three. Now, yes, you need to make a living. Some of you will make a lot of money, some of you won't. Um, but your contentment should not be based on your possessions.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Right. Um and how you go about it. And how you go about it. Don't use the church to get you a private plane and you know, twelve different private planes or whatever it might be, you know. So he's putting warnings in there, you know, just watch it because this this has the potential to grow into something and and uh you know, to look at the people from, you know, or the leaders from if they have that heart, if they're true to true to the uh to true to the church, I guess, right?

SPEAKER_04 37:53

Correct. So so as we is we close out the book, um, you know, there's some applications for today. I really think so. And yeah, one of them is character is not optional.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:06

It's just not. You've got to have solid, consistent character. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Yeah. And they they do, and it's just, you know, and they talk about, you know, when because Timothy was young, and we don't know exactly how young would be fun to find out. May we ask ChatGBT if he knows how young Timothy was. Maybe he's scanning something in there, you know. Uh maybe there's some some some people out there that have, you know, got to the point where finding some scripture somewhere, you know, database in there. Uh, but yeah, he got to the point where he he uh talks about the younger leaders, right? You know, and and um, you know, they can be just as good as leaders some of the old ones. And I think that's one of the things that I try to instill in my kids all the time. And and I'm like, if if you have a chance to be a leader, be a leader and step up and do that. Say, I'll do that, I'll lead the line, I'll do this, and raise your hand because that's ultimately gonna put you on the right course to be a strong leader later on in life.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

Yes, and so there should be a shift as we get older.

SPEAKER_04 39:14

So you're training some younger people to be leaders, but it's important to train older leaders to be mentors. Um and you've okay, you've been in the business 40 years. So start making sure that if you haven't already, start training other people to be exactly what you've become. Um, it's you know, you might not be around to train them fully, but at least you can start them on the path. And that's what Timothy is encouraging the older leaders to do.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Yeah, and that's one of the things that and then Timothy, I like it. It's and it sort of fits who I am, right? It's this is uh it's a strong letter, it's a direct letter. It's it's uh, you know, it's a letter that has teeth, right? You know, it's it's ready to put it in there. It's it's not a marketing exercise, it's it's it's uh it's stewardship, you know.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

Well, Paul knew that if Timothy did not act this out, that the church would not survive very long.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Right.

SPEAKER_04 40:18

And so he's he had to be pretty serious, uh pastoral, but serious about it. And and so he was. And the church now we'll when we get to the book of Revelation here in a couple months, um, we'll talk about the church of Ephesus and what happened uh with that. Um and and so we'll we'll get to that later um because it is mentioned there. And um but for now, Paul was saying, hey, let's let's fight this fight, um be a good leader, uh live by example, and train others.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

So yeah, yeah, wonderful. I like it, it's good stuff. It's good stuff.

SPEAKER_04 41:03

So uh we're gonna close up with some dad jokes.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Dad jokes. I mean these people are.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

So we got Timothy done, first Timothy, next week is Second Timothy. So did you hear about the two guys who stole a calendar? No, each got six months.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

They decided it 50-50, huh?

SPEAKER_04 41:25

Yes. And the other day I read a story about the guy who invented the throat lozenger.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 41:32

Yeah, he died.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Yeah?

SPEAKER_04 41:35

And there was a thing in the bulletin, there will be no coffin at the funeral.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Oh, I'm thinking I'll go with it. I'll go with it. That was pretty good. Uh what can a whole apple do that a half apple can't?

SPEAKER_04 41:52

Uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

It can look around.

SPEAKER_04 41:56

Um okay. What stays in one corner but travels around the world?

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Say that one more time to me.

SPEAKER_04 42:04

What stays in the corner but travels around the world? Postage stamp.

unknown 42:13

Oh, wow. Look at that.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

I'll give you that one. Yeah, I like that one. All right, two more.

SPEAKER_04 42:19

Well, I've just got one more. No more. I mean, I've actually got about 400 more, but uh just one more today. Why do hummingbirds hum?

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Hummingbirds hum because they can't sing, because they don't know the words.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

And uh what why did what do they serve at birthday parties in heaven?

unknown 42:40

Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

Angel food cake.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

You got a good one to close out with. That's a good one. Fantastic. All right, good job. All right, guys. Thank you for listening. Uh, come back next week. We'll get into uh Timothy number two. Yeah, second Timothy. Yes, and uh um big fan of the Timothy's, by the way. Uh yeah, very good book. Uh other than that, guys. Uh you know, uh like, subscribe, share, all those good stuff. Email us, email us some good dad jokes. Get us some with some fan mail. We love to hear your comments. Uh, you know, we keep spreading around, getting more countries every week. We're pretty excited. So uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

Yeah, and in two weeks from today.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

Two weeks.

SPEAKER_04 43:31

Two weeks from today, we're having a very special guest.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

We are having a special guest.

SPEAKER_04 43:35

And I'll just give a little hint. Yeah, he's booked. He's I'm very excited about this guy uh coming. I've just met him a couple months ago, but he's my swim coach.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

That's exciting.

SPEAKER_04 43:45

Yeah, so I'm looking forward to Chuck being here. And uh so we'll we'll be excited to meet him and I've heard a lot about him. So yeah, he's a good man and uh a great coach. So next week, Second Timothy, the next week we do tight after. That Titus, that's when he'll be here, and uh looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Wonderful. Well, guys, we appreciate you, and uh, as always, reach out to us with anything that you might need from prayers to uh just saying hi or giving us a good dad joke. Yes, but other than that, Dr. P take us out.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

Hey, thanks for following us. Listen, make it a great day. Make it a great day.