Hebrews 7 And 8 Leadership Lessons For Building What Outlasts You

If your team can’t function without you, that’s not loyalty, it’s dependency and it will eventually break. We get real about that tension while working through Hebrews 7 and 8, where the writer contrasts temporary priesthood with Jesus’ permanent, complete work and then calls Him the mediator of a better covenant. Along the way, we keep it honest, practical, and yes, we sprinkle in the dad jokes that have become part of the show’s rhythm.

We start by setting the context for Melchizedek and why Hebrews uses him to spotlight authority that doesn’t rely on a normal lineage or a borrowed title. That opens the door to a leadership conversation about what is temporary in every organization: our role, our influence, and our time. We talk succession planning, building long-term momentum, and why the best leaders train people so well they can finally sit in the “rocking chair” and watch others lead with confidence.

Then we shift from Scripture to a very human story: Dr. Posey’s bicycle accident and the surprising diagnosis behind the pain. The leadership parallel is immediate. Treating symptoms feels productive, but diagnosing root causes is what actually solves problems, whether it’s supply chain delays, late reporting, or a team that keeps getting stuck. We also dig into transformational leadership from Hebrews 8, the power of explaining the why, and the difference between compliance and conviction, because conviction holds even when no one is watching.

If you want biblical leadership principles you can apply at work today, listen now, then subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review so more leaders can find the show. What’s one area where your team needs a clearer why?

Transcript

Welcome And Dad Jokes Warmup

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Alrighty, welcome, welcome, welcome. Ah, Jim, how you doing today? Good. How we doing there, Dr. B?

SPEAKER_02 0:35

I'm doing good, but uh we'll talk about a little bicycle accident that I had. Bicycle accident? Yes, I had that like the the day after we recorded last time. It was the very next day. And and so uh we'll talk about that later and uh how that ties into leadership.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

So um it's a little embarrassing to talk about. You know, I know I'm not that banged up. I'm just moving a little slow. Yeah. But I'm moving.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

He's moving. I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

So uh could have been worse. Yeah, it could have been a lot worse. So I'm I'm glad I'm still functioning.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Anyway, episode 124.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

So thank you for those of you who are listening, longtime listeners. Yeah, and uh those of you who are found us for the very first time, thank you for joining us. This is the Biblical Leadership Show. I am Dr. Dean Posey, and with me is Tim Lansford. Hey Tim. Hey, and so uh if you've not uh heard us before, uh today is episode 124.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

And it's not 124 in Hebrews, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:41

This is not episode 124. Gosh, we're almost at 125. I know. Imagine that.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Um, and so what we have been doing um for almost three years now is we have been going through biblical topics the last almost two years now. We've been going through the Bible book by book and talking about the leadership principles uh found in each book that you can literally apply to today. Um and and so uh we've been going through the book of Hebrews. We started in the book of Genesis back in August of 24. We're in the book of Hebrews in the New Testament now. Uh we spent the last couple of episodes uh going up through chapter six today. We're going to try to get through chapter seven and eight. Um that's our thought. That's our thought. We might make it because uh next week when we do chapter nine, that is really some deep, really deep leadership principles. I would like to just take maybe a whole episode and just focus on chapter nine. So today the goal is to get through chapter seven and eight. And uh, but the one thing unique about our podcast that I really like, uh in addition to talking about the Bible and leadership, are dad jokes.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Why do you laugh at that? You know it's yeah, exactly right. Yeah, so over the weekend, I get emails on that, you know. So I get emails on dad jokes. You do.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

So, well, good. You got one for me right now?

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Uh no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Okay, so over the weekend we were fixing dinner and I opened up a bag of frozen peas, you know?

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Yeah. And and a few rolled out onto the floor. I guess they were just escape peas.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

I've heard that one. I was waiting for it.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

So why don't ants get sick?

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Oh, I don't know this one.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Because they have antibodies.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Nice, nice, nice. Yeah. Uh, one of them that came in is uh what's the best time to go to the dentist? I don't know if I didn't ever confirm if it was an actual I've heard this one.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

What's the best time? Something about 230.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Tooth hurdy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Okay. Tooth hurdy.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah. So there we go. And if you have something better, please share.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Please, Biblical Leadership Show at gmail.com if you want to email them directly or go to our website, biblical leadership show.com, and follow the links over there. That'll get you there.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

So yeah. So what's the most reliable part of your body?

SPEAKER_00 4:12

I do not know.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Your fingers, because you can always count on them.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Oh. You know, maybe next week we should do uh, or maybe today we should do some Father's Day jokes. I don't have any right off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

You can probably get some. I can probably get some. Yeah. You can okay. Yeah, that's yeah, I can make that happen. I'm a multitasker.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

I know you are, and you're good at it.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Posey sometimes, like I don't even know who I'm having a podcast with because I'm over here doing a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Yes, all this stuff. And so have you ever gone on the on the web and you have to fill out some form, and at the very bottom it says you have to check this box. I'm not a robot.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Do you ever wonder why the computer asks if you're a robot?

SPEAKER_00 5:13

No.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Because they're looking for some friends.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

In the world of AI, that might be actually true.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

So all right.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Well, let's you got one more and then we'll get into C Software.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

We need to stop. Maybe. Um so I went to the sign store the other day. Um and I was looking for a specific sign, but all they had were left return signs. I didn't buy one. I I just didn't buy one because deep down I knew it wasn't right.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

It wasn't right. Uh why wasn't one Father's Day gift better than the other? I don't know. Because it was a tie.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Oh. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Anyway, let's go.

Hebrews Overview And Melchizedek Setup

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Okay. Hebrews.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Hebrews chapter seven.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

So let's just kind of give a little background of the last three episodes. So uh the book of Hebrews, if you are not familiar with that, um, it is in the New Testament. Uh, whoever wrote that, Apollos or Barnabas, or it's still unknown who actually we solved that, didn't we? We solved that in the two seconds of AI, right? Yeah, we solved it. Anyway, so the first couple of chapters of the book of Hebrews uh talks about uh why Jesus is greater than the angels in the Torah. The second uh couple of chapters, chapter three and four, how Jesus is greater than Moses. Uh we get to chapter five and six, which was uh last episode, and Jesus Greater Than the Priests and Melchizedek. So chapter seven really deals with that. Um and and so that's where we are. Uh about and if you not know who Melchizedek was, he talks, it's he was in the Old Testament. I was gonna read it asking. Yeah, he's in the Old Testament. And so uh he basically was the king of Salem or Jerusalem, came out and uh was offered some some tithe, and but he had no history, he had no like he was mentioned way back in Genesis 14th, actually when he blesses Abraham. Yes, he does, yeah, yes. And Abraham gave him a tithe of the spoils, and and so but there's no lineage there, there's no like and and so if Abraham honored this person, and the writer of Hebrews saying, Okay, Jesus is bigger and better than this priest who even Abraham, the father of the Jewish nation, you know, re is honored, then Jesus has to be really something. Right. And and so that's where that is going. And um and so let's just talk about uh um that because um there's some leadership principles there.

Temporary Priests Versus Permanent Sacrifice

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Um when we get into that, one of the things here uh that came up in my research and it starts talking about temporary priest versus permanent priest. Yes, you ever heard that? Or yes. Um I'm just sort of curious that that I was scratching my head on that.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Okay, so um in the Old Testament, the priests were allowed to be a priest from a certain age, like in 25 till 50. Okay. Now they could serve and there was a rotation. Each priest was in a certain group, and they were assigned certain duties. We see that specifically, not just in the Old Testament. We also see that in Luke chapter um one, when we read about the birth of John the Baptist, and Zechariah was a priest, and it's said that his, you know, basically his group was up and he was assigned a certain thing to do, um, which is obviously God ordained because he went into the temple, he was doing the incense, and the angels spoke to him. Um and so um a lot of priests, there were so many, and rightly so, but some, you know, doing that might have been a once-in-a-lifetime experience because you only had you know 25 years and they were on for a week and then they would rotate. And so they were trained to do it all, but they might not be able to get to do it all. But those priests, um, they led the sacrifices, they did all those things that the Old Testament required. Um, but but the all the sacrifices were temporary. You know, the high priest would go into the temple once a year for the forgiveness of their sin and the sin of the whole nation. Um, and but all of that, they still had to keep doing it. They had to sacrifice every day. There was always sacrifices going on, animal sacrifices. And and so the sacrifice, when the book of Hebrews comes out uh and says, you know, the sacrifices of the Old Testament, even though God wanted that to happen, they always had to be repeated because it wasn't sufficient enough. So it was a temporary solution. Jesus came, died on the cross for our sins once for all. So it does his sacrifice does not need to be repeated. So that's why it's an eternal thing, it's not a temporary thing, a permanent sacrifice. Um and so we don't need to go and Jesus did that uh permanently for everybody and the whole creation and all of history. So uh that's what that difference is.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Okay.

Succession Planning And Training Others

SPEAKER_02 11:03

And um and and so you know, let's talk about the leadership uh uh implications for that particular thing. Um because leadership sometimes depends upon titles or um other things.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Well, I was thinking like you know, we you mentioned temporary, you know. Most leaders, it's temporary, right? It doesn't matter who it is, there's gonna be an ending. I mean, that's that's one of the things that you need to look at, the succession planning, the the long-term growth. Where are you going? Do you want your company just to last the 40, 50 years that you know, the leader, the owners on the planet, or do you want somebody to succeed, keep it going? And I think that's pretty important. The the word temporary needs to resonate with people to go, all right, we need to set this thing up for long-term success. Look at some of these companies been around since I mean we we mentioned Altoids, you know. I mean, 1800s, you know, 1700s. I'm like, are you kidding me? What how is that even possible, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:07

So I think those uh great leaders are always looking to what's gonna happen if I'm not here, or what's gonna happen in 10, 15, 20, 30 years. Who how can we keep the momentum going? How can we keep the product going? How can we keep up with technology? And who's actually going to be the captain of the ship? Because I'm not gonna be around forever. Okay, I am temporary, even though I found another company and I've been here for 50 years, there's gonna be a time we'll either train another person to do it or we've got to shut down the business.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

And uh you've seen so many times in your travels around the country speaking about leadership that so many companies do not have a succession plan. And it just doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

They do not at all.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

They just think something's gonna magically happen. And maybe if they think, oh, if I talk about succession plan, then things are gonna get wow, crazy, and people are gonna get scared or freak out. It's like, no, I think it'd be security to know that things are going to l outlast me.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Yeah. Okay. Um Yeah, I gotta make a phone call right after the show and talk to somebody about that because they're they're having leadership problems and and uh they I don't know how they're gonna succeed and and keep the the uh the company going.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

So I just reminded of uh when I was very active in scouting, uh a scout my whole uh growing up years, and then as an adult leader, uh we had for the troop that we were in, we had a special award. It wasn't really it was just for our troop. It was called the Rocking Chair Award. And that was, I mean, the scouts, if the adults did everything, then what's the point of the scouts? Right. Right? So the rocking chair award was to train up the older boys, and you would start when you know they first came into the troop, but you would train them up so literally, um you could literally sit in a rocking chair or in a camp chair at the camp, and the boys would would do it. I mean, they would, you know, set up camp, they would cook the food, they would clean up, they would do everything. Now, they were you were always there for advice, but it wasn't like revolved around you. Uh and so uh we had to do a specific amount of training to to learn how to train others, right? Um, but it was very successful. And I'm thinking that's what I think a good leader, and we've talked about this many times, a good leader does is a good leader helps people not be dependent on the leader because you've trained them and you've encouraged them, you've you've done all the things that you know to do so they feel comfortable. You encourage them, you know, you motivate them, uh, you support them, um, and so they can do their very their job. And you're there in case they need questions answered or whatever, but you're not telling them to um do everything. It's not like, okay, what do I do next, boss? What do I do next, boss? Right. You know, you've basically laid them out and and uh they have an issue, you can come and come talk to you. But if not, I mean I encourage my staff, it's like, okay, here's the solution, or this is what I think we need to work on. Uh, you go do it the way and if you have any questions, um uh we'll we'll meet once a week. You can give me an update, right? And we'll talk about that. If you have some struggles, we'll talk about it. But you go do it the way you think needs to be done. So

Complete Forgiveness And Open Heart Leadership

SPEAKER_02 15:40

yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah. And one of the the verses I have here is therefore he is able to save completely. This is 725, Hebrews 7.25. I'll read it for you. Therefore, he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he is always he always lives to intercede for them. Um, you know, and and I I went through that and I thought that was powerful because it's in in the verse is saying that he saves completely, right? You know, and and that's where they're going on that.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Right. It's not like a halfway save. I mean, here's a thing that is challenging for some people to comprehend, and that is that Jesus forgives everything from everybody. Period. There's no ifs, there's no what ifs, there's not like oh, what about this one? No, it's it's all forgiveness, totally like getting an eraser, uh, you know, dry erase board and just erasing it. Um and uh I think that's total, complete uh forgiveness, and that's just absolutely phenomenal. Um and and so he is the ultimate priest, high priest that can and has the power, he's divine, you know, he's God, so he has the power to do that. And the other thing about that is also think about God in Jesus is actually praying for you all the time. Right. You know, I've met a lot of people that said, I don't feel my prayers are reaching above the ceiling. I'm thinking, good, because Jesus is right there praying with you. I mean, he's probably sitting next to you, he's kneeling, he's living inside of you, he's praying for you, period. And so that's okay. Jesus can interpret your heart if your words just don't seem to fit or just don't know what the words are, just just share your honest feelings from the heart. And I think that brings me to a leadership point. I think that a good leader is open enough to their employees and co-workers to actually have them share from the heart, you know, what's going on, and not just in your personal life, but you're having a problem with your this, you're having a problem with supply chain, or you're having a problem with finance this or payables or you know, accounts receivable, um, you know, having a problem with this. I'd like to know about it. Let's just figure out. I might not be able to do a thing, but just sharing your issues, your deep concerns with another person is so freeing. Right. Yeah. And so a good leader actually opens himself. It's not just open door quote policy, but it's actually an open heart policy.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's one of the things that you know that the Bible goes through, and I think we can tie that correlation in between, you know, Jesus being a savior and and leaders. Leaders are called to serve. Jesus was called to serve, right? Um, they're called to guide people, guide the ship, you know. Jesus was there to guide, they're there to teach and and and shepherd, but you know, they when it comes to savior, a leader shouldn't be in a role where they're constantly the savior. I mean, that was Christ's role as the savior, but a a leader, you you shouldn't be the default net all the time for your employees. There's there's got to be um something that um I I you know I'm a huge fan. I talk about accountability and consequences and all that stuff for your actions. And I think that's one of the things that leaders need to get by is um they need to um, you know, have people take responsibility more for their actions and not be that savior for them all the time. So yeah. That's how I sort of tied it back into leadership in my head.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

So well, I think that's really good. And so I have a quote from uh Steve Jobs that I just think is amazing. And uh this is what uh he he said. He said, Management is about persuading people to do things they do not want to do, while leadership is about inspiring people to do things they never thought they could. Right. I thought, wow. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

100%.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

And when you're inspiring, encouraging people, it's amazing what people they don't know they could do it. Yeah, but they they you just keep encouraging. And and here it goes, we've talked about this before the five love languages book, which is just phenomenal. Um, but you know, you need to know what encourages or motivates each person. Not everybody on your team is gonna be motivated, encouraged, inspired by the same thing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Well, that's that's exactly right. We all do have different motivators, you know. And I've talked about it before. I've had one employee that you know that that I don't even have to say anything and he'll work the weekend because he needs extra money to pay for his five kids, and the other guy is all about family and and doing things with his kids, so he doesn't work on weekends. So it's just there's different motivators. Um like people think, oh, money's the biggest motivator. Not to everyone, right? So we're all we all have different levels uh that we need to look at.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Yeah, exactly right. So that's uh that's just really good. So I think that one of the things that um it's important for a leader to know when you leave the room, when you're on vacation, uh if things start falling apart, um you have built dependency instead of maturity. And you want to you want to depend uh develop maturity. Um and um a leader is not successful when because everybody needs them, right? No.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Um well that's one of the things you need to look at, you know, and and you gotta ask uh some of the questions Am I pointing people beyond myself, right? Do people come as stronger because I lead them, or do they become more dependent because I lead them? Because I mean there's a big difference. Some people, you know, rely on their manager, on their leader to make the decisions to do and to lead them down the path. And and you know, I I think that's the wrong way to go about it. Um, because you got to look, you know, past that that short term, that temporary leader, and empower your people to make decisions and and uh you know develop them and and uh you know you know enhance what their abilities are so they can hold it. But a lot of times people don't. They they want the power, they keep that themselves, right? They feel threatened because their employees are just as good or can just do just as much. And and I think that's you know a big mistake that a lot of managers and leaders make.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

Yes, and it just reminds me uh while we're sitting here talking about this, of something that I did um many years ago when our kids were growing up. Um there was a program uh called Odyssey of the Mind, and it was a creative problem solving uh contest. And we had kids, I mean, this is in schools all over the country and even in some universities, but you had a problem uh to solve. And there was a multi, it was a competition, and there were several parts of the competition, but I remember one particular year we had to make a structure out of balsa wood, and you can only use a certain amount of balsa wood, so many grams of balsa wood, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Um the problem the issue was you had to have in the middle of your structure, you had to have a ping pong ball in the middle of the structure. And then they would put weights like from a gym, they would put, you know, a two-pound weight and a five-pound weight, and see how much weight your structure could hold before it collapsed. But when it collapsed, the ping pong ball had to shoot out of the structure without being broken. Well, we just talked about that. We we tried different things, you know, figured it out. I let the kids like, okay, how are you gonna design this? We designed several things before we find the you know, got the last one. We go to the competition, the same it's the same issue, same problem. There are I don't know, 50 teams, 50 different answers, and they were all good. Okay. Um, and so sometimes the leader thinks they have the solution. And that's makes you the leader, the your staff or your coworkers dependent upon you. But if you empower them to think for themselves and come up with a solution to an issue, um it's it just creates so much momentum in your team, so much more confidence. Uh you're more respected uh as a leader than just trying to dictate everything. Uh and so I th, you know, that was uh that was a valuable lesson to me many, many years ago. Uh tried to implement that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

So yeah.

Bike Crash Story And Diagnosing Root Causes

SPEAKER_02 25:06

I understand. So now let's just uh change course just a little bit. I know we're back into Hebrews chapter eight, but let's just uh, you know, we talked about uh my little bike accident, so let's just talk about that. I'll I'll I'll give a short synopsis of what actually happened. So it was actually the day after we were in the studio last time. Okay. So so let me tell the story.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

You were going down this long hill and there was this wooden bridge. And as he approached this wooden bridge, it collapsed. And he had to make this 20-foot jump over to the other side so he even pedaled faster and he got a lot of momentum going. And he jumped up and he made the other side. He landed, but then he he fell over at the end when he was trying to get off his bike to celebrate, and that's what that's what happened. It sounds a much better story.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

So well, we'll go into another story sometime. I was actually in a car one time in college. I was going out to a work site and I was and it had rained a lot, and there was a lot of wander under this old wooden bridge. And when I was driving, the bridge collapsed, and the two beams that go across the river, my tires fell exactly on those two beams. It took me a long time to go over any bridge after that. It just did. Okay. Anyway, so my bicycle, I'm uh we live in the Fort Worth area, uh, Fort Worth, Texas. And uh I think one of the greatest things about Fort Worth, one of the many, is they have a bicycle jogging trail uh from one end of the city to the other. And it's it it I don't know if it connects yet to Dallas, but uh you can ride your bike, jog whatever. I've out there, you know, done 30, 40 miles on it. And so, but they have a new part of the trail that they had redone uh could to connect to a bridge. And uh I was going around this trail, and there was a big dog. Uh the owner was walking the dog, the dog was out in the grass, you know, doing his business, and and then I was turning in this corner and I thought the dog was gonna jump out at me. So I swerved, missed the dog, uh, went into the grass. There was an irrigation pipe that had not been buried yet. I hit the pipe with my front tire and I fell over on my right side. And it was about uh a mile from the car. So I just got up. There were two cyclists behind me that said, Hey, you're right. I said, I'm fine, picked up my bike, rode that mile, uh, put the bike on the rack, went home, told Diana what happened. Uh, and but the next day I could hardly move my right arm. I mean, just barely move it up, just maybe a few inches. So I called the doctor, um, they had me do a uh a chest x-ray, and come to find out a couple of days later, I got the news back from the doctor that I had a fractured rib number seven. They'd said the good thing it was not a good thing, but the good thing about it was it didn't puncture my lung. Yeah, you know, so so but here's the thing, I think leadership is um you've got to diagnose the issue. Right. If there's a problem, which I obviously had a problem, um, I wanted to I wanted to know the the problem. Um yes, it hurt, um, but I wanted to know, okay, it hurts. Why is it hurting? Um why why am I not able to move my arm? So, you know, went to the doctor, had over the x-ray place, had some x-rays, um, and they they said, yeah, you've got a you've got a broken rib, which is um, you know, frustrating because I can't ride right now, I can't swim. I can't my arms are much better, but I'm still not able to do all that stuff. But I think leadership principle-wise, you first have to diagnose the problem. So many times we address the pain, like, you know, we address, you know, it could have been a broken shoulder, it could have been a just a rotator cuff tear, it could have been a broken collarbone. I didn't know what it was broken anything. But so many times we just address the pain, we don't address the source of the pain. And I'm thinking a good leader spends time diagnosing the issue. I had a coworker uh many years ago, a pastor, who said, if you can diagnose the problem, then you can find the answer to the solution. Yeah, and I just think so many times leaders just address the the surface issue, like the pain, but they don't ever dive into what's causing it. What's really causing our manufacturing to be slower? What's causing this to happen, this report to get out always two weeks late? What's causing that? Um, and they might address, you know, a poor uh someone who's, you know, this is like someone else's problem, uh, instead of addressing the real issue. And so I would just encourage you as a leader, uh, whatever the issue is, uh, whatever it might be. It could be a family issue, it could be a business issue, a personal issue, spend some time diagnosing the problem. And then once you know the problem, you might not have an answer to the problem. You might not. That's why your team is so important. Say, okay, here's the problem. We're having a problem with our manufacturing. Uh, let's figure out what we can do about it. We're having a problem with deliveries, we're having a problem with accounting, we're having a problem with this, supply chain, whatever. Let's figure out how we can solve this together. And uh trust your team.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Yeah. Yeah. And I thought my story was a much better story.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

I mean, did you get that from AI or something though? No, no.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

That's my own brain, man. Oh my goodness. I just, I'm a good storyteller, and I thought mine was just rocking. That's all right. You want to go with that whole hidden irritation part of it? I don't know. It's all there's no fluff for the show here, right? You know, we're kind of came up with some good stuff. Yeah. All right.

Jesus As Mediator Of Better Covenant

SPEAKER_00 31:26

So on Hebrews 8, um, yeah, they talk about uh Jesus is the mediator and mediator of the better covenant, right? He's better, he's built on um, you know, better promises, I guess. Is that sort of where they go with this?

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Yeah, so just think about there. If you look in the Bible and just look up Old Testament covenants, there are several covenants, okay? One with Abraham, one with Noah, one with Abraham, I mean uh Adam, then you have uh Noah, then you have Abraham, you have David, you have other covenants in the Old Testament. Okay. Um, Jesus comes along, and since all of those people, it was more of a like the one that Abraham was promising a nation, which is awesome, uh, that's still being lived out. Jesus, though, is a better covenant means I'm not just it was about it wasn't just about property, okay, or lineage. It was about forgiveness of sins and the gift of eternal life. And and how do you how do you put a price on that? I mean, it's just I mean, Jesus paid the ultimate price, uh came down, was God. Uh here's the thing there is no other religion on the face of this earth, never has been, never will be, where God Himself comes down in the form of a human being and pays for the sin of creation. And then, I mean, he dies, and then he's resurrected to give his own creation eternal life. I mean, just think about it. God, through Jesus, created the world, and he knew when he created that hill called Calvary, he knew, you know, before humankind was ever created, that on that hill that he created himself, he was going to die on that cross. He already knew that before humankind was ever created, and yet he was willing to do it. And and so the covenant he promises, the covenant of forgiveness, the covenant of everlasting life, there is no other religion that offers that from a God who became a human that died for the sins of their creation. And so I just think you talk about an amazing distinction between Christianity and all other religions. That right there is huge. And so this everlasting better covenant is um is true, is real, uh, and you can only find it in Jesus. Um, and so that's what that is about. I mean, we can go a lot more depth, but that's kind of a synopsis of what that's talking about.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Yeah, I understand.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Yeah.

Transformational Leadership And The Power Of Why

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Um yeah. And so let's just talk about um uh is as far as leadership, just a few things from Hebrews chapter eight. Um you know, the leaders, um let's just say Jesus was a transformational leader because he wanted to change people's hearts, he wanted to change people's thinking, he wanted to change people's minds, change direction. And so you can be a a leader, you can be a boss, uh-huh, uh, and just keep things the way they've always been. Just keep doing it, be safe, just do all this stuff. And there's nothing wrong with that at times, but sometimes you need to be a transformational leader. You actually need to help people see a different direction to maybe do better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

And and one of the things I looked at as transformational is rules and standards matter, but lasting transformation happens when when you move from the external pressure to the internal ownership. And I think that's one of the things that transformational really, you know, does is you don't worry about the the the shell, right? And you own it and you you move down that path of I'm gonna help my people get better, I'm gonna give them different things. And I thought that was a pretty strong thing. And I know that you had a a sentence in show prep that came up as well, but I like that external pressure to that internal ownership. Yes. Um, and that's to that that transformation. Because that's what really seals the deal in a lot of that.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

It does. And so I think a leader, an average leader, explains the what, what we're gonna do, where we're going. A great leader explains the why behind the what.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

And and so if people know the why we're doing this, why are we changing you know, internet providers? Why are we changing this? Why are we changing delivery routes? Why are we changing this? They know the why. Um, then it's better for them to understand the what. Yeah. If you just tell them what we're doing, this, then it's like, well, why are we doing this? Is you know, it's just confusion. When you sit down and explain the why that you feel we need to change this, um, you're not gonna get a hundred percent buy-in. Okay, just not. And and leadership is lonely because you have to make decisions, and some people are just gonna disagree with you. They just are. Um, and if you can't take it, if you're a people pleaser, it's gonna be a miserable thing for you to be a leader. It just is. And so you've got to be able to make a decision about the why that you feel very strong with, and then you talk to a few people, you talk to a few more, you talk to a few more. And over time, that why gets internally done, not just in their brain, but in their heart and their you know, soul, they say, Oh, this is why we're doing this. And we look back over two or three, four years and we go, oh, that was a really smart thing. And a lot of times leaders make a decision and they don't see the outcome of that for a while. So sometimes leaders think that, oh, I'm gonna change this and it's gonna be instant results. No, it doesn't always happen like that.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

It just doesn't at all. And we mentioned it before, and I still think one of the greatest is uh Simon Sinks, the power of why. I think it's great. You know, read the book or watch some videos on it. It's one of the things. And and to to add on to what you're talking about, I I think one of the things that I sort of come up to me is um compliance versus conviction, sort of what you said about the manager versus this, you know, it's compliance says I do this because I have to, where conviction says I do this because I believe it matters. And I think that's one of the things that we made a transitional shift with the uh, you know, it sort of happened with the millennials, and that was a big buzzword back in HR all the time, is you know, people, the millennials were looking for the why. They wanted to know why we do this job, why does this company exist and all that, where uh you get back into the older generation, they're like, this is what we do because it's our job, you know, that's what we're hired to do, that's what we do, we're gonna do it until we retire. And and there was a little transformation from that uh compliance to uh that conviction, and I think that ties back into some of the messages of the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

So yeah, and this uh reminds me of a story that uh preachers tell all the time, but it's so true. Uh, and many of you might have heard this, but this uh little girl was watching her mother cook uh, you know, dinner, and she gets her a pan out uh from the cabinet, and she has a roast, and she cuts off the end of the roast and puts it in the pan. And the little girl's just watching her and thinking about it, and say, Mom, why are you cutting off the ends of the roast before you put it in the pan? Well, that's the way my mother taught me. So a couple weeks later, they were with grandma, and the little girl comes up to grandma and said, Grandma, I was watching my mom make a roast the other day, and she cut off the ends of the roast. She said, That's what you taught her to do. She said, Oh, honey, honey, honey, I had to cut off the ends because my pan was always too small.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

That's great. Right. Yeah, and sometimes we do that. We just do it.

unknown 39:39

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

We don't need to do it, but we just do it because it's just been grilled into us. Right. You know, and it's habit.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Um, and maybe there's a better way. And I think good leaders uh think about is there a better way of doing what we're doing? And I think Hebrews 7 and 8 talks about that Jesus is the better way. He just is. And it doesn't stop with chapter 8, it continues through the entire book. And we'll get to chapter 9 next week. Will we? I maybe I think we we might start at eight again.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

I don't know. You know, we got a lot of good stuff there in uh in the Bible. It's just a lot, a lot of good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

So yeah, I think one of the biggest things just don't settle for compliance when conviction is needed. And I think that's one of the big takeaways. You know, compliance works when someone's watching, conviction works when no one's watching. And that's one of the things that's so true. That's awesome. So true.

Compliance Versus Conviction Then Closing Jokes

SPEAKER_00 40:38

All right.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Well, we got to close out with a couple of dad jokes. Dad jokes. Yes. And so did you hear about the two priests pieces of bread that got married?

SPEAKER_00 40:47

No.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

The wedding was amazing until someone decided to toast the bride and groom.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Oh I was going a different route on it, but yeah. What did Yoda say on Valentine's Day? Oh, I should know this one. What? Yoda one for me.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

I wasn't going there. Oh. Wow. You know, getting older. I drew you off with my bad one. Getting older is sometimes difficult. You know, this morning got out of bed. I was like in total darkness for about 20 minutes until I realized I put my hoodie on backwards.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

You know, um, I I like birds. You like birds?

SPEAKER_02 41:42

I do like birds.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

And do you understand that?

SPEAKER_02 41:46

No, I don't understand.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

I I like birds because they don't like to follow directions.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

Man, I got all choked up on that.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Because I like to wing it.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Oh. You know, I used to in college, I was so desperate to uh pay for my own college that I uh I got a job as a mannequin in a shop window. I held that position for years.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Oh boy. All right. Why did the guy smear peanut butter on the road? Oh.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

I uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Figured it would go well with the traffic jam.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Well, that's a lot of peanut butter in Dallas Fort World.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Yeah, a lot of peanut butter. I thought that was pretty cute.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

So all right, one more pose. Hey, one more?

SPEAKER_00 42:40

I'll let you close it out.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

You're gonna have me close out?

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Well, of course.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Uh I'm gonna have to just think about it. Um You're just gonna think about it, huh? Yeah, and just kind of have to think about it.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

You got nothing out of those 500 there?

SPEAKER_02 42:58

I've got about 750. Okay. Just following up on piggybacking what you just said a few jokes ago. What car does a Jedi prefer to drive?

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Ooh. Like my storewife's jokes.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Um, you like this one.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

I don't know this one.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

A Toyota. Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

What? I get the Yoda. Oh my goodness. I've heard them when I say before, right? Yeah. Okay. All right, guys, we're gonna let you off there.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Someone said, please, I turned you up 20 minutes ago. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

I mean they're not listening at this point anyway. Um, you know, uh Bible the leadership show.com. Check us out. Uh, send us an email. Uh, send us some dad jokes. Please. Send us some uh some happy messages about dad jokes. Send us some sad messages. Um please don't do the dad jokes. We haven't got to any of those yet. So yeah, that's pretty good. We we've received some positive ones. I know there's some people rolling their eyes out there about dad jokes, but that's okay. We like our dad jokes. We do, yeah. We uh we're gonna have fun saying them. But other than that, check us out, biblical leadership show.com. Other than that, Dr. P.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

Hey, thanks for joining us. Make it a great day.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Thank you guys.

unknown 44:28

Well