Perseverance, Hope, And Follow Through From Hebrews 10 And 11

One sentence can reshape a life, and sometimes it can even reshape a nation. Hebrews 10:31 says, “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God,” and we trace how that verse fueled Jonathan Edwards’ 1741 sermon and helped spark the First Great Awakening. Then we bring it right back to the ground level: what does conviction look like when you’re leading a team, raising kids, running a business, or trying to stay faithful when life gets messy?

Our guest, Tim Johnson, shares his journey into ministry and apologetics and helps us unpack the flow of Hebrews 10 into Hebrews 11. We talk about why the old covenant sacrifices were never the finish line, why Jesus “sat down” at the right hand of God as a signal that redemption is complete, and what that teaches leaders about training people well enough to release responsibility. We also dig into the three exhortations in Hebrews 10: draw near, hold fast, and consider one another, and we ask a pointed leadership question: do the people around us actually feel safe drawing near, or do we only claim an open door while keeping a closed heart?

Hebrews 11:1 takes us to the core: faith is assurance and conviction, and biblical hope is not wishful thinking but a confident expectation. That becomes a mirror for leadership credibility too. If we want people to trust our vision, we have to back words with action, build consistency, and keep running when the hurdles hit. We also share details about the Fortify Apologetics Conference and how to connect with Tim’s campus ministry work.

Subscribe so you don’t miss what’s next, share this with a leader who needs endurance, and leave a review if the show helps you, what’s one promise you want to keep this week?

Transcript

Welcome And Show Purpose

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Oh now yeah. Hey Dr. Posey, how you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:32

I am doing fantastic today. How you doing, brother?

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Spectacular. Yes. I'm uh having a good week. And uh, you know, this is uh podcast 126.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

126. 126. Yeah, and I figured it out if we just keep going, which you know we will, uh, we'll celebrate our 150th podcast on our New Year's Eve show. Which I think is gonna be so it works out that way. It works that way perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

We're just gonna have to make sure that that we make sure that that happens.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Yes. I just and and our for those of you who are new listening, our New Year's Eve show is always just totally dad jokes. So it's just a lot of fun. And uh welcome to the Biblical Leadership Show uh podcast today. We have a guest with us in the studio. Yes, we do, guest, and uh we'll introduce him in just a minute.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah. So anyway, um, yeah, we we have guests in the studio today.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Yeah, we do, and I hope everyone had a great Fourth of July this last weekend and uh celebrated America 250, wherever you were in the nation. Uh I know some people that are were up in Washington, D.C. for the whole parade and things, and uh just you know, it must have been incredible. Just incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

So yeah. So if you're new to the biblical leadership show, uh we've been uh going on for almost three years now, and uh the theme of our show is to talk about the Bible. We have a theme. We have a theme. So the focus, uh let's just say the focus of our show is to talk about the Bible and uh pull from the scriptures, Old and New Testament, uh leadership principles that you can apply to your life every day. No matter whether you're uh just uh a family person uh and you're staying at home, uh you you have a mom and pop uh pizza place, or you're a CEO of Fortune 500 company, uh we try to talk about leadership principles, character development that comes straight from the scripture that you can apply today to your lives. And so um today is we're focusing on the book of Hebrews, uh chapter 11. 10 and 11.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Chapter 10, maybe 11. How about that? As you know, that we we go at our own pace here. So that's our show. It depends on what we have. You know, some chapters demand a little bit more attention than others, but uh, you know, we we just make sure we cover it all.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

So yes, and so uh right at almost two years ago, August of 2024, we started out with the book of Genesis. We're going through every book uh of the Bible, and now we're in the the New Testament book of Hebrews, and we are uh focusing on chapter 10 and 11 uh today, hopefully. Um, and it's gonna be fun. Throwing some dad jokes. And

Meet Tim Johnson And His Journey

SPEAKER_02 3:40

before we get any further, uh Tim, why don't you introduce our guest?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Well, well, who do we have in the studio here? He he's got a really cool name, right? Tim. Tim Twin! The best name ever, best name ever. Yes, it is. I was like, yes, you need to come hang out with him. Exactly. All right, well, tell us a little bit about yourself here, sir.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Well, my name's Tim Johnson. I'm with a college campus ministry called Roshu Christie. Kind of grew up in church all my life. Um moved to Texas when I was about nine. My my dad got sick, where all our family, excuse me, uh were living. Um started youth pastoring kind of right out of high school. Went to seminary while I was in high school that night, and um, you know, been married about 23 years. And there was a period in my life where I got out of ministry, I got out of church, and it was through a testimony and just a friendship with one of my closest friends uh where the Lord really convicted my heart, got me back going to church and kind of just rededicated my life to the Lord a little over ten years ago, maybe even longer, it's hard to keep track anymore. And been trying to serve the Lord ever since. Uh been I was on staff at Pleasant View Baptist Church for about six years. Three of those years I was groundskeeper, three of those years I was uh facilities director. But in the meantime, I was finishing up my worship degree with Liberty University. I thought I was gonna go into music ministry. I was training to be a uh, you know, a worship pastor. And I got some real bad bouts of bronchitis where I just can't really sing. And so I kind of struggled where I was gonna go in ministry. And I uh started learning about apologetics.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

What is apologetics?

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Apologetics is a kind of broad term that we use that essentially is just um giving a defense for why you believe what you believe. Kind of the apologist's motto is 1 Peter 3 15. You know, always be ready, give a reason for the hope that is in you, but do it with gentleness and respect. And so I grew up on church on my life and went to you know seminary, but then I was being challenged by a dis an apologist friend of mine named Brady Blevins, and he's like throwing out these answers as he was a guest speaker or questions as he was a guest speaker at our church. And I was like, I couldn't answer these things, and it would annoy me. So I started what is this apologetic? Started reading books, then I started teaching my family, started teaching at my church, and then finally I found out about Roshi O'Christie. And after I graduated, I applied to be a volunteer chapter director. And then after a year of doing that, after prayer, um, I just felt it led that I need to do this full time.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

So I I at this time I'm not full-time still raising support, but uh I'm on campus a lot more now at Tarrant County College South Campus, and then I teach part-time at Pantiago Christian Academy.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Nice. I like that school. Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. It's a heck of a journey, you know, and and it's it's amazing how uh you're led. You know, you start out in one direction and and uh continually uh, you know, little things nag at you and and pull you in different directions. It's sort of uh it's nice that you listened and and were open to uh the different pathways. I a lot of people they put that resistance up, you know, and you know, a lot of times I I just said have faith where wherever we're supposed to go, we'll go. If you just have a little faith, and a lot of people resist and they're like, that's not where I want to go and all this stuff. So kudos for that.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

So well thank you. Yeah, and what a great leader. Let's just start right out. A great leadership principle about persistence. Yeah, you know, and you've b believed very strongly that you want to get to a certain place in your, you know, character development or a certain place in your career or a certain place in your Christian growth or whatever. And it's gonna happen baby steps. Uh, it's not gonna happen with lightning speed. And uh there's so many people. I remember when I was getting my finishing my doctorate up at Emory University, there were so many people that finished all the coursework for their doctorate degree, but never finished their dissertation. Which is crazy to me. Which is sad because you have some brilliant people who study, study, study, and they just didn't have enough to finish the race. Um and you know, it just makes me think of a track meet.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Maybe they got sick of chipping on the tablets back then, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:37

They weren't good with the stone work, right? It's crazy because my wife uh typed my dissertation on an Apple IIe. That's how long ago that happened. Um and but it makes me think, okay, so so here you are uh uh running track, and you're actually in the 440 hurdles, okay? Um you you run um and you get all of the hurdles except the last one, you hit the hurdle and go down on the track. Well, obviously you're not gonna win the race, but the question is, do you just walk off or do you just keep going and and finish at the finish line? And I it's it's tragic to think that there's so many people that just walk off the track. Um and so for those of you who are uh listening today, um and you're thinking, should I really put in the effort to do this, whether it's finish my education, uh go to management training, do whatever, uh I would say yes, just focus. It might take you longer to get there, but when you look back, the rewards that's gonna happen, um I just think it's always worth it. It's always worth it.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

It's baby steps, it's like chunking off little uh tidbits here and there, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:02

You know, you yeah, and the thing is when you finish the course, you don't have to live with the regret of not doing it. That is such an excellent point, Tim.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Um a great name, anyway, Tim. That's really great.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

It just flows out of your mouth for some reason, Dr. P. Yeah. Oh. Well, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Maybe, yes. Yes. Yes, yes.

Dad Jokes And Parenting Leadership

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Okay, so uh before we get into the Bible, we gotta, you know, this is our show, and we we focus on dad jokes. We do. So let me ask you a question. What is red and smells like blue paint?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Oh, I know this one, so I'm gonna have to have you do it because I know it. You got me. Red paint.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Okay, so why did the mobile phone need glasses?

SPEAKER_00 10:56

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Because it lost all its contacts.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Um, I hooked you up with some uh some dad joke books over there. So we got, you know, our special guests come in. We have like, you know, six dad joke books other than Posey's 15,000 jokes over there.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Okay, so over the weekend, you know, it's it's grilling season, right? It's grilling season, brisket, all the people that came from uh other countries to the U.S. for the soccer stuff, they are fascinated with Texas barbecue, especially Buckies. Yeah, Buckeys. Bucky's and Walmart. They should be they should be fascinated with Texas barbecue. But here's the thing over the weekend, you know, I grilled a chicken for two hours, and it still wouldn't tell me why it crossed the road. Oh man. I told you, Tim, there's some there's some good ones.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

There's some interesting things. Did you got one? Do you got one over there, Tim?

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Yeah, one stood out to me from this book that you gave me here. Said, what did the buffalo say the day his son left for college?

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Oh, we've we've known this one. I don't know. Remember this one. Yeah. By son. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a really good one.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Yeah. Another one that just popped out at me. How did Swedish people get so good at building furniture? I don't know. We have no IKEA. No IKEA.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

All right.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Uh my kids, you're listening to this in the future. I'm sorry. I can hear the eye rolls. Yeah. I'll I'll tell dad jokes sometimes just to purposely annoy my kids, you know, as fun for me, not for them. So you could I could hear the groans already and the eye rolls.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Oh, my kids are good with the groans. Oh my gosh. And then they join us in here every once in a while. My son's like, uh my daughter's like, hey, I'll be back.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

But you know, I think it's part of the role of a parent when your kids get to be teenagers to just embarrass him as much as possible.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Oh my gosh, I can't wait.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

You know. There's videos of this one guy that picks up his kids someplace somehow different when they pull up on the bus or he pulls up to school, he's always wearing like an Elvis outfit. He's got the big boom box out there singing. Is he doing that? Or he does costumes like once a week to pick up his kids. That's the most hilarious thing I'm gonna do. I wish I'd have thought about that. I'm gonna so have to do some of that.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

But most of my kids now, they're I only have one left in school now. So she doesn't ride the bus. I take her to school. So she hasn't done anything worthy of embarrassment just yet.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Well, let's just say our kids are grown and on their own, they're doing fantastic with their careers and their families and stuff. But um, it's still when they're here, you know, yeah, it's still that try to embarrass them as much as possible. Yeah, it's and they still just like groan and hide their eyes and shake their heads. They just do.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Yeah. Mine gets, I mean, you can't even have the radio playing when you roll into the now, you gotta have the radio off, right? But like first day of school, we always play Eye of the Tiger really loud. We come rolling in the parking lot.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Well, thank you for that idea.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

I might actually just have to do that. And then we're all excited, and we're like singing, the kids are back there. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

We're like, Yay, kids come to school. It'll be my youngest uh first day of high school coming in this fall. Okay, she's a freshman in high school.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

And well, my ultimate plot is just wait until I have grandkids and just give my grandkids cokes and candy before the parents pick them up.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Yes. Yes, that does work. Yeah, trust me. So do you pick up your child, daughter from or son from school?

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Okay. Occasionally. Occasionally. So I would say just a thought for those for you here and for those of us, those of you who are listening. So I would say just go to uh, you know, like Walmart or someplace like that and get those big glasses with uh big nose or mustache or something, and just wear them in the car while you pick up your child and just see what happened. We did that at the airport one time picking up our daughter and her boyfriend. Our daughter almost walked back through security. She was just so it was it was classic.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

It was classic. And you've seen where the daughter like wears two shorter shorts, so the dad goes and puts short shorts on and goes to school, walks her in. He's like all these short cutouts. And I'm like, okay, you'll never do that again, will you? There's an image that's burning in the back of your head there. Yeah, exactly.

Hebrews 10:31 And Holy Fear

SPEAKER_02 15:54

All right. All right, let's get to Hebrews chapter 10. I think uh Hebrews chapter 10, you might just kind of read through it. It's a great chapter, it's got a lot of uh great messages for leadership, uh, especially at the beginning about perseverance and stuff like that. But I want to start out by focusing on um chapter 10, verse 31.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

All right.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

And I'm gonna read that because this verse, uh, many verses have an impact on our country's history, uh, especially now that we're thinking about, you know, celebrating the 250th anniversary of the country. But but I'd like to read a passage from Hebrews chapter 10, verse 31, and then just talk a little bit about the history of that in our country back in the 1740s, and and then what that means for leadership today.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

So here is the uh passage uh Hebrews chapter 10, verse 31. It says this quote It is a fearful thing to fall in into the hands of the living God. Now we can get into you know theological discussions about all of that, and that would be a great discussion. But back in 1741, a a pastor, preacher by the name of Jonathan Edwards used that uh passage to preach a sermon. And I've read that sermon, it's it's very, very powerful. But that sermon he preached began was a catalyst for the first great awakening in the country, which is a a uh call for people to come back to God, come back to church. Um, and that happened in 1741, which was obviously several decades before our country was even a country. Um, but the influence of that uh passage and that one sentence in scripture had a significant impact on our country uh back then. And so it just makes me think, as far as a leadership principle, that it's amazing what God can do through one person who has conviction and boldness to live according to their conviction. And so uh I would think as a leader, uh whether you're you could be leading a you know your bowling team or you could be leading a soccer team, you know, uh we're really into soccer right now. Um you could be leading um an archery team, whatever it may be, um, sticking to your principles, uh being bold about it, not being pushy or condescending, but being bold about it and say, no, we're gonna focus on this right here, uh, can make huge difference in people's lives. So I'm just gonna encourage you if you're thinking about on the fence about making a decision, I would encourage you to um think about okay, what is the consequence of doing this, but also what's the consequence of not doing it? Yeah, and um, so just leave that with you.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Yeah, the sermon, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. Yes, is what it was.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Yeah, it's a powerful sermon. You know, it's like wow. That that is just amazing.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Yeah, some of the points that he was why it was so important, they say, is uh every person is accountable before a holy God. No one can save themselves save themselves through good works, and uh God's judgment is real. So pretty uh pretty nice pretty powerful. I was I was doing my my show prep while I'm uh you know listen to him. That's what I do. I I just keep going. His thoughts go, and then I start to gotta catch up and make sure I'm on the computer here. So yeah. So all right.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

So, but just think about you, you know, you're a custom home builder, have been for decades. Uh just think about you know, you're building a house, you get all it framed up, and you decide, well, just not gonna finish. Yeah. You know, um no, perseverance, uh, convictions to what you've said you wanted to do makes a huge difference, uh, not just in your life, but in other people's lives as well. So now I could say that could go for good or bad, because you could be very bold and convicted about doing something horrible. Um, and I hope that's not the case, but unfortunately that is the case in our society for too long.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

And uh so I would think that for but for something good um for the good of uh humankind and your family, your life, your business, um, be bold and persevere. All right.

Old Covenant Limits And New Covenant

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Well, let's circle back to the beginning of Hebrews 10, right? Um, so Hebrews 10 sort of starts off um bringing that argument of I don't know where where does it go on Hebrews 10?

SPEAKER_03 20:57

Well, it kind of starts off about talking about the law.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

There you go.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

And what the author of Hebrews in chapter 10 begins to do is go back, give them a brief history lesson on how inadequate animal sacrifices were for the payment of sin. And then he transitions to Christ's final work, and how the first system was never meant to be a permanent system. It was always pointing to a better system, it was pointing to the new covenant, and you get hints of that and like in Jeremiah and Zechariah, where they talk about a new covenant, where God's going to gather all the nations from all the people and there'll be a new covenant established. I was reading in a commentary here, just kind of helped me with my thought process by a guy named Thomas Lee. And he was mentioned that Hebrews, of course, hence the name, Hebrews was written to Jewish Christian believers, in which he was. Addressing potentially some who were thinking about leaving Christianity and going back to Judaism. And he kind of mentions that later on in chapter 10, just kind of giving a quick summary of it, where he's like, okay, if you leave and go back, well, it's futile because those sacrifices can't pay for your sins. It's useless. And throughout as going off what you're about enduring and everything, that's a constant theme throughout this whole chapter: enduring, enduring, enduring, persevering, not um committing apostasy. So those were just kind of my quick thoughts and summary of there, where he's kind of leading the thought process there.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Hopefully I didn't No, I think it's an excellent point, Tim. I really do think a excellent point. And and for some people, um, and hopefully part of our show is to help people think about why they do what they do. Um and how does that affect the people that you're around? Okay. Because our actions might not just we might not think about it, but the people around us, it might affect their lives significantly. And and so if we're if we're gonna go backwards, like you were saying, there's some people that were thinking, you know, this this Christianity is not working for me because there's still some bad things happening um uh in my life. And and really in chapter 11, that that comes out really, really strong. Yeah. Um, but in this chapter, it's like, okay, are we gonna go back uh as a leader? Are we gonna go back to what's safe and might not have worked really well for us, but it's kind of familiar. Are we gonna step into what we think is the right thing to do? And it's that is a that is a decision that a lot of people face every day. They want to step back into the comfortable instead of moving forward into the new and better. Um, and that just takes strong leadership and principles. Um, you know, like you we have in our uh show prep notes, um finished foundations create confident actions. So if you have a solid mission, uh you're you feel like this is what we need to do, then you're gonna step forward with confidence.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

One thing that struck me when I was doing uh show prep on this is uh there's a verse uh 1012. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for his sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God. And you know, through through uh, you know, research in this, it it was important why they use the word sat down. And it sort of struck me because priests never sit down, they're they're always moving forward, they're always continuing, their jobs never finish, where Jesus sat down because the redemption was complete. And that really struck me as a strong passage, a strong, strong uh statement, um, you know, that sort of summarized a lot in this chapter for me.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

So it uh it's uh I had the exact same thought written down in my own notes.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Yeah, that's awesome, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Yeah, and and that we see that particular statement about Jesus sitting at the right hand of God several times in the scripture. Uh, and it is a powerful, you know, you sit down, you're done. Yeah, you know. Um, and we see that uh first about Jesus sitting down in Luke chapter four, when he goes to the uh to the synagogue where he grew up there in Nazareth, and he sat down and talked. Um and and so, yeah, and there's other places where Jesus sat down, or the they the writers talk about him sitting down. So when we sat down at the right hand of God, um, that is a powerful message that you know the work he came to do is complete. And um so I just think it's a great, great lesson.

A Leader Who Trains To Release

SPEAKER_02 25:59

And so the question is uh leadership-wise, um, you know, you get it can't keep working. Uh I remember in Boy Scouts, we had uh, I think I mentioned this a couple weeks ago, we had a Rocking Chair award where we trained our people, our you know, our young scouts, uh, to do the work of the troop on campouts, on hikes, or, you know, we were gone for 11 days. I've been at Philmont Scout Camp. But the whole point was we trained our boys to do the things that needed to be done so that the leaders could sit down and watch them do the work. And I think a good leader trains their people to carry on the work, uh, not so they can be uninvolved, but so they can sit down and watch the the actions of the people and make sure that everything is done right to the next generation.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Rocking chair award?

SPEAKER_02 26:56

It was called the rocking chair award. Yeah, it really was. So you could sit down and just watch the boys and just be there. And if they thought, hmm, maybe we need to think about that again, boys. You know, but um it worked. It really, really worked, but it had to be intentional.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

You know, it had to be and you had to trust the boys, just like a CEO has to trust their leaders, their leadership team. You've got to, you know, a church has to trust the church staff. Uh, any company that has employees, you've got to trust your people, but you got to train them.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

You got to train them. And then it's like doesn't mean you're gonna sit down and do nothing, um, but you want to trust your people. And that's what Jesus was doing. I mean, he trusted his disciples to carry on the work. Um, and so he could sit down at the right hand of God. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Very good, very good point.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

All right, Tim, what else you got on your show prep?

Draw Near Hold Fast Consider

SPEAKER_00 27:49

You know, you got anything that really stands out to you there?

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Well, I I kind of I when I read scripture, I'm a little analytical on things, just given how I approach things. Just some of the like thought transitions that are given throughout here that kind of lead us to chapter 11, trying not to get too far ahead of ourselves. And one of the things like uh that I wrote here. Give me a second there. Hopefully I can read my handwriting.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

That's always I know I couldn't have my or read my handwriting.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

So what I also think is interesting later on in um chapter 10, he had the author gives three exhortations. Um, let us draw near, let us hold fast, and let us consider. So let us draw near. And once again, when he's talking about drawing near, he is giving an image of what would have been called the holies of holies. He is drawing a parallel to the high priest that would go in once a year into the holy of holies and sprinkle blood on the mercy seat. But here he replaces the high priest as the great high priest, Christ, doing the sprinkling on our hearts. And where the high priest could only enter by himself and no one else could go with him past the veil, here the author is saying we can go with Christ past the veil, past that divide that kept us from the Father, and enter into God's presence with Christ. So we can draw near, we can be confident. He uses the word confident or assured that we can draw near to God. Then hold fast, another way of you know enduring, not letting go, um, persevering. And it says, hold on to your hope. Now, a long time ago I did a lesson on what is hope. And often I think when we hear the word hope, we use today's kind of definition of kind of wishful thinking. Well, I hope this will happen. I hope you know you will be there. I hope, I hope. That is not how hope is used in the Bible, period. I can't remember the Greek word, but I remember the definition, which means a confident expectation. So it's not a wish, it's an expectation that these things will happen, even though I haven't experienced them yet. So he tells us to hold on to our hope and do not waver because Christ has proven to be faithful. Then he says, let us consider or let us focus on these things. How can we put these things into application? How can we think upon these things? Well, loving one another. And then he places the emphasis on why Christian fellowship is so important to encourage one another. Because he says there's some people that are not fellowshiping with us. They're just trying to do their own thing and they're not going to make it. You need to be together. You that is one of the ways we can stay in Christ, and we can stay in fellowship with Christ, is being staying in fellowship of one another. So those are kind of the three exhortations that kind of just popped in my head just now when you were asking me. And so hopefully I wasn't babbling there. No, not at all.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

But let's just talk about leadership principles, because you know, that first one you talk about drawing near to God. Uh my my question of leadership-wise, excuse me, is how many employees that you have um feel comfortable drawing near to the the to the boss? Or is it like, oh, I don't know if I can draw near to the boss. Uh, do you really have an open door policy? Here's a question. Do you have an open heart policy? Um and if there's some people that just don't feel comfortable talking to you, uh, I would question why. So that that would be uh something that you can examine that, and we've talked about this many, many times. You get to you need to get to know the people and them get to know you. But let's uh

Faith As Assurance And Hope

SPEAKER_02 32:05

skip that. I'm just you know thinking about chapter 11, and you gave this great segue, Tim, into chapter 11, talking about hope, um, because uh chapter 11, verse 1 um is one of the most amazing sentences in the New Testament where it says this now, faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. So if you have that confident expectation that God's gonna do something, um, whatever that might be, uh I just think that's uh a powerful thing to have in our life is a confident expectation in in Christ, um, regardless of our circumstances. And uh talking to someone just the other day about you know prayer. What's the point of prayer? And um I said, well, sometimes, you know, God answers prayer one in three ways, yes, no, and wait. And sometimes the answer that we really want to pray for, the answer is no, he's not gonna answer it. We don't always know why, this side of heaven. Um, but sometimes prayer is is to not just change our circumstances. A lot of times that's what we want. It's really to change us, change our heart so that we can be still confident in God, no matter what the outcome of the circumstances. And that takes some real mature faith, a real mature um, you know, in walking with God, that sometimes the circumstances are just not going to change, but we're still confident that Christ is the answer to the gift of eternal life that we'll have with God. And so um, you know, great point here in chapter one. I mean chapter 11, verse 12.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Chapter 11, yeah. Yeah, and that's sort of where I had is I saw Hebrews 11 as a sort of a bridge between 10 and 12, um, where 10 is like don't shrink back, and where 11 is here's what your faith looks like, and chap 12 is all right, so here it is, run, you've got endurance, just continue the fight and and finish the race, sort of deal.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

So one of the things I'd like to point out is near the end of chapter 10, where he's focusing on, hey, you're being persecuted, but you're gonna have a reward. I know you're going through suffering, but don't focus on what's going on around you because there's a greater reward ahead of you. And then what does he do? Well, then he transitions into 11-1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for. You haven't said things not seen if you want to quote the KJV, because that's the one I have my memorized on my head. Yeah. And so then what does he do? So he states their situation. He says, rewards are coming. Then he transitions, and now you get all these examples of people from the old testament that were given certain promises and they believed they would happen, even though some of them were not realized within their own lifetime. So once again, there's that confident expectation. Um this may get a little off the beaten path because it's always this verse has been used out of context in the past, and because I'm an apologist, it always drives me nuts. Is often atheists and both Christians try to use this scripture out of context, meaning faith is belief without evidence. I would push back against that because I'm not a fiddleist. I believe in what's called informed faith. And here it just, you know, when you take it in context, it shows that we can move forward with confident expectation that these things are going to take place because we already have seen what God has done previously. So what did we see in chapter 10? We see the work of Christ completed. His crucifix and his resurrection. So their faith wasn't based on you know, no evidence at all. It was based on the evidence that Christ was who he said he was. And then we can have hope in that that even through our suffering there's a reward coming. Just like Abraham, he didn't see the inheritance of the promised land, but he had faith and a confident expectation that God was good for his word, because he's seen God working in his life in the past. So there's a little thought tidbit there on the transition, the thought transition that you see throughout the latter part of chapter 10, why all of a sudden we get into chapter 11 and we get what we call the hall of faith. So I I just think it's just a beautiful transition in the thought process when you follow that.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

So yeah, it is. But uh yeah, it's fantastic what you just said,

Credibility Built By Follow Through

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Tim. And I'm just gonna jump the bridge, walk across the bridge to the leadership principles of that, because what you made about Christ is an excellent point. But let's talk about leadership. So you want to move forward with your company, okay? And you share the, you know, the vision for the next three to five years of where you want to lead your company, whether that's increase sales, you know, get a bigger market share, whatever the goal is. I'm sitting there in the room with, you know, you as the leader, you're talking to me as a I'm one of the employees, and I'm thinking, okay, how many of these things have you said in the past that you didn't follow through on? Uh, how many of these things you just words, but there's no action to follow it up? What you're saying in the scripture is that whatever God said, He followed through and He and He accomplished through Christ. Um and so as a leader, if you're going to say something to your people, you better follow it up with action. And if you haven't in the past, then you're gonna have your people hesitant to move forward in confidence with their leader. Right. And so the reputation of your history, your actions, your words, your all those kind of stuff is really gonna play a huge impact on the people you're leading now. So if you've made mistakes um in the past, if you've said some things and hadn't happened for whatever reason, I would just uh be honest with yourself and your people to say, you know, I know I've said this before, so I'm just encouraging you to let's get let's do this together. And then you better make sure that what you say you're gonna do, or you're gonna have people jump in ship and they're just not gonna believe you, and and you're just gonna lose some really good people in your company. So what a great lesson that is from chapter 10 and 11. Yeah. And I'm sure you you know, you're talking around the country on leadership. I'm sure you've seen that all the time of leaders or CEOs and people just say something and just it's just words on a page. It doesn't really follow up with action.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Yeah, I've I've had that in my past history working with companies that I've you know, we've told stories in here that I just, you know, um decided that wasn't the place for me to be back in the past, you know. And we've talked about that in our employment of people and and bosses that hide under veils and you know what they say is not even close to their actions. And I'm a true believer of you, you you know, you I I tell people all the time in leadership, you can be a horrible boss. Just be consistent, right? Because me as a person, I know how to work with you if you're a horrible boss. If you want to yell at me every day, I know it's coming. I'm expecting it, right? But if you're yelling at me one day and then you're my best friend and let's go to lunch and then you're fired, okay, you're hired back. Nah, that's that's just never gonna work, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:53

So yeah, yeah. My mind kind of just goes to fatherhood when we're talking about leadership, just leadership in the home and your kids looking to see if you're gonna do what you say you're gonna do. Because kids will hold you to it. You tell them you're gonna take them to Six Flags the next day, they will bug you down the night if you do not take them to Six Flags.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Oh, yeah. And then here's the thing the next time you say we'll go to Six Flags, they'll think. They won't say it, but they'll probably think, no, it's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

And so, I mean, that's just a different type of leadership there. I've never owned a business, you know. I'm just starting a small ministry, so I'm still trying to become a better leader. I've been a supervisor in the past, and I've had to learn some of those lessons the hard way.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Right.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

And just reading Hebrews, you have that great example in Christ, kind of that template that we can follow. And just making sure we do what we say we're gonna do. Persevere regardless of the difficulties that you will have. Not if you have, it's like when you have them.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

I I think excellent point. Excellent

More Dad Jokes And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_02 40:51

point. So uh, you know, I think it's time time for some dad jokes. Dad jokes? Yes, some more dad jokes. So here's here's one. I'm just gonna kick off this last we got a few minutes to go before we close our podcast today. Um, and thank you, Tim, for joining us. That's been fantastic. Thank you for having us. Um, so here's a question. Thinking about the alphabet, yeah, why is the letter B very cool?

SPEAKER_03 41:18

I have no clue.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Because it's sitting in the AC.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Oh boy. Uh I liked it, but it was it was right there. So did you see any in your book you like over there?

SPEAKER_03 41:36

What do you do when you see a spaceman spaceman?

SPEAKER_02 41:41

What do I do when I see a spaceman?

SPEAKER_03 41:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

Park your car, man.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

Yeah. Park your car.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

That was a groaner.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

I like groaners, though.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

I like them. You know okay. Here was the thing. I was in the library over the weekend there in our little town, and I asked if the librarian had any books on paranoia. And the librarian said, Yes, they're right behind you.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

I like the voice. It was that was everything there.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

That was good, huh? Uh what's a lion and a witch doing in a wardrobe?

SPEAKER_02 42:28

A lion and a witch doing in a wardrobe?

SPEAKER_03 42:31

What's a lion and a witch doing in a wardrobe? I have no idea. It's narnia business.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

I heard there was a new story called Moderation. Really? Yeah. They have everything there.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

Oh. Okay, so what do you call a cat that's in trouble with the police? Okay, you got me. A perr portrayal.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

I'm gonna go with cat burglar, but that would have been too obvious for a hard show, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:07

No, yeah. Okay, what is the opposite of irony? Don't know. Wrinkley.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

I like the ones.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Which country eats the unhealthiest food?

SPEAKER_00 43:30

America. Might not be the joke, but we're answering that realistic. Greece. Greece.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

There we go.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Greece.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

All right, Bosey, what you got?

SPEAKER_02 43:40

Do I have one more or two more?

SPEAKER_00 43:42

You got one or two more. Then we're gonna find out what Tim's got coming up in his life.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

So Okay. Um, you know, uh in where we live, trash day is Tuesdays and Fridays. And recycling days is also Fridays. So walking in the neighborhood, I normally walk in the mornings. And I saw a clock. It looked like a brand new clock in the trash can. I'm thinking, wow, what a waste of time.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Sort of knew that was going there. You did.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

I like that. Well, okay.

Fortify Apologetics Conference Invite

SPEAKER_00 44:12

So uh Tim, give us a uh thought about uh what's going on and and uh Yeah, we got I know you got some events coming up or an event coming up and sort of give us an idea and and tell us a little bit about yourself and somebody want to reach out to you and how to get hold of you.

SPEAKER_03 44:28

Sure. Um well this October. This October, Saturday, October 17th at Pleasant View Baptist Church. We are having the second annual Fortify Apologetics Conference. Uh early registration is now open. Uh right now it's 29 with lunch included, the Lord's Chicken, Chick-fil-A. That's what we'll be having for lunch there. Um so you can go to uh yeah, you can go to fortifyapologetics.com, uh click on the Arlington Conference tab there, and it'll give you, you know, the conference schedule, it'll give you all the information about the speakers, and there you can click the register, and you know, don't hesitate, take advantage of the early pricing. It ends August 31st, and then the regular price will go up to 39. And we have a great bunch of speakers, guys, I got into work with. Um if you want to kind of get to know a little bit more about them, I have a podcast called the Fortify Conversation. Uh, we've done interviews with all our speakers recently, and they're on Amazon and Spotify at this time, and you can even find them on YouTube. Look up the uh Fortify Conversation there.

unknown 45:38

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 45:39

Then on top of that, um, starting this fall, we have our Roshow Christie meetings that we'll pick back up early September. Uh-huh. Um we meet at Tarrant County College South Campus from 3 30 to 5 o'clock on Mondays. You can reach me if you want more information about that. Just email me at Tim Johnson at RoshoChristi.org. Love to have you there. Always welcome volunteers as well. Uh great work. A lot of students out there, a lot of great gospel conversation. So come on out, visit us if you'd like to volunteer, or if you're a college student looking for a place to get plugged in on campus, we'll be there for you.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Fantastic. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Fantastic. And thank you for what you're doing. Yeah, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Thanks for coming and joining us. Yes, I appreciate it. Hanging out in the studio with us today.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

So now I gotta learn more dad jokes. You do.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

I have to have you back. I mean, that's the prior record.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

I don't have enough arsenal there, you know.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Okay, so speaking of dad jokes.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

Of course. I got I got one more. So, how does an ewok cross the road?

SPEAKER_03 46:39

Oh, goodness. And I'm a Star Wars fan. You think I would know that? You would think I would hear a dad joke or something? I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Ewalks. Yeah. All right, one more. You got it.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

Do I have you done? Do I have okay? Let's see. Um, what kind of band cannot play music? A rubber band. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Oh, you gotta go one more, Posey. I mean, that's I mean, that's pretty good. So he he got yours.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

Okay, so what's the he's sort of a music guy?

SPEAKER_00 47:15

He does some band stuff.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

So, what is the best way to get to the hospital after you break your foot?

SPEAKER_03 47:24

No clue.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

Car? A Totra.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

We better stop right there. We better

Final Links Prayer Requests Goodbye

SPEAKER_00 47:32

stop right there. All right, guys, check us out, biblical leadershipshow.com. Send us your prayer requests, like, share with a friend. Uh go check out uh what is that date on your show again? What's your your event coming up?

SPEAKER_03 47:46

Uh Saturday, October 17th.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

And what's that uh link?

SPEAKER_03 47:49

Uh fortifyapologetics.com.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

All right, check them out. And other than that, thank you for being insta with us. Thank you. We appreciate it. Thanks for interjecting some information. But other than that, Dr. P, take us out. Hey, thank you for joining us. Make it a great day. Thank you, guys.