Vault Episode 12: Ali Vallarta

A house struck by lightning, a six-month Sundance stint that turned into home, and a resolution to have one drink at all 218 bars in Salt Lake County—our conversation with City Cast Salt Lake host Ali Vallarta is a fast walk through how a city wins your heart. We dig into the winding road from Sarasota to Vermont to Utah, the lessons you only learn by knocking doors across the state, and why a daily local news podcast can replace doomscrolling with clarity.

Ali shares how City Cast Salt Lake is built: a small team curating what matters, defining terms so listeners aren’t left behind, and resisting the old-school “radio voice” in favor of something closer and more human. Instead of chasing national names, they elevate the people who actually shape your day—city planners, transportation directors, and reporters who break down complex issues like homelessness into actionable context. We also talk about the “come and go” Sugarhouse debate, how to ask sharper questions, and what accountability looks like when the mic is warm.

Then we toast Every Bar SLC, the year-long project that became a map of community. The best moments weren’t hype spots; they were surprises. A flawless cocktail at Seabird in Draper before an IKEA run. The Midway with free-play darts, a carousel horse, and Monday karaoke that sounds like a studio session. Bob’s Redwood Lounge, a family fixture since the 60s, where the old roofline still shows and the owner walks you to your car. Along the way we celebrate bartenders as culture keepers, debunk safety myths, and admit the spreadsheet is the glue that keeps the fun honest.

We close on the future we want to build: narrower streets, pedestrian-first blocks, and density that lets nurses and teachers live near work. Salt Lake’s Thriving in Place strategy sets a hard goal—keep people housed while we grow. That means fairer zoning, patience during construction, and sharing responsibility across neighborhoods. If you care about walkability, housing, and a city that feels alive at eye level, you’ll feel at home here.

If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who loves Salt Lake, and leave a quick review so more locals can find us. Your support helps keep the city’s best stories in your ears.

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Now through January 2nd, buy or lease a new Subaru at Mark Miller Subaru and they’ll donate up to $500 to local Utah charities like USARA and Girls on the Run. Drive a new Subaru and give back to the community at the same time.

Please be sure to like, review, follow, subscribe and share the podcast with your friends and family! See you next time 

Chapters

• 3:11 Ali Viarda
• 14:00 From Florida to Vermont
• 24:45 Political Campaigning and State Familiarization
• 28:58 City Caster
• 39:03 Interviewing and Creating Authentic Content Challenges
• 49:21 Hyperlocal Journalism and Bar Hopping in Salt Lake City
• 1:01:06 Salt Lake City Bars and Nightlife
• 1:11:04 Exploring Salt Lake's Hidden Gems
• 1:18:09 Growth and Development in the Community
• 1:21:57 Homelessness and Housing in Salt Lake City
• 1:28:21 Finding Ally in Salt Lake City

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 1:44

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SPEAKER_04: 4:20

I know. Do you like how I was like, hey, I need to take off my sweats so that I can put on different sweats?

SPEAKER_02: 4:25

Yeah, well, it's like whenever I know I'm recording, like especially today, because it's like the first video episode, I'm like, okay, I actually have to think about this this time.

SPEAKER_04: 4:31

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02: 4:32

So it's been, yeah, I I agree with the working from home, real pants leaving the house. It's a it's a travesty, but it's the one we live in.

SPEAKER_04: 4:39

I'm trying to figure it out. Sometimes it is good. I one time heard someone say that like if you are struggling to create boundaries around working from home, just getting dressed in the morning is a good way to like manufacture that. Like get up, get dressed like you're quote unquote going to work, and then get out of your work clothes at the end of the day. Yes. Because it's hard when you like, I finish work and then I'm still sitting in my living room, which is part of why I feel like I'm constantly out and about, specifically at bars, is because I'm like, I gotta get out of here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:10

Also, if we started, what are we there is no hard start, there's no end start.

SPEAKER_04: 5:15

Um when you work from home and you finish the day and you're like sitting in the middle of your living room, you do need to get out of the house desperately. And so that is, I think, one of the reasons that I was like, oh, I'll just go drink at every bar in Salt Lake County, and then I never have to be home after like 6 p.m. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:32

You have it built into your daily ritual, be like, I'm leaving here and I'm gonna go drink with my friends.

SPEAKER_04: 5:37

Exactly. And my dog is like, not again. Mom's drunk.

SPEAKER_02: 5:40

Because I had someone I worked with like during the pandemic, someone brought it up, but it's uh what's the term? Shackleton's regimen. Where when Shackleton and his um crew were stuck in Antarctica and had to like maintain sanity because they had to survive there for the winter for the ice to break before they could leave, right? What he read like implemented was like, hey, we're still gonna clean the decks, we're still gonna cook all the food, we're still gonna keep our jobs because we have to keep mental sanity to work towards something. So, in that same thing, like I I too, I've like I'm a very regimented person. I go to the gym every morning, I uh stretch every morning, I uh meditate every morning. Like, there's some practices that I always have to do to maintain that sanity, and part of that is like I have to have something to compartmentalize work, transition, and move on to the next one and decompress.

SPEAKER_04: 6:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 6:23

And if I don't know how people don't, but whatever.

SPEAKER_04: 6:26

Yeah, I mean, I guess the big difference here is like, God, I would love to be someone who stretches every morning. I've been trying for like 30 years to be someone who stretches every morning. I don't know that it's ever gonna happen, but I need if I gamify things, then I can get myself to comport. So it's like, okay, again, like I'm gonna have at least one drink at every bar in Salt Lake County. Like, I have now gamified socializing myself, not just out of my home, but into the furthest reaches of our city and our county, forced myself to like make new friends and meet new people and go places I normally wouldn't and whatever else. But the gamification is key. Yes. Like the spreadsheet is what holds me accountable.

SPEAKER_02: 7:11

Spreadsheets, quote unquote, that hold us together are the glue of society. Without it, we would be apocalyptic by now.

SPEAKER_04: 7:17

If only mine was a budget.

SPEAKER_02: 7:20

Oh, that rings too true sometimes. Uh but it's like funny because like as you mentioned, like you put yourself out there, you have I mean the every bar SLC, which we'll get into. But it's so funny because like with this, I've also like so I mean the podcast called Small Lake City, which now that I've put this energy out there, chased after that energy, like they keep compounding on themselves. So, like, and I think that's something I'm gonna do more of just like sharing the story of how I get in front of people, because usually there's like nine different funny stories that happen at the same time. Yeah. And so, like with you, it was so funny because I remember I was reading an art, I think I was reading an article on KSL or something, it was talking about nightlife because I was, oh, that's right. Because I was preparing to talk with George and Charlie and just want to get a better idea, like, okay, what's going on in Salt Lake, landscape bars, nightlife. And I've and it mentioned every bar SLC. And I was like, what a fun novel concept. Of course, I'm gonna follow this account. So press follow, keep checking in, yada yada yada. Fast forward, and I'm getting ready to release the podcast, and I'm like thinking of who else do I want to have on there. And like, I do want to cover, like, be very broad, be very diverse, and could cover like subject matter experts and things. And who would know better than someone who has gone to all of the bars than to talk about bar life? But then it was funny because I reach out and you're like, oh yeah, like that could be cool. I was like, Yeah, we'll be on my podcast. You're like, yeah, I podcast professionally. And I was like, okay, like interesting response. And then you send me the city castling, I'm like, oh, okay. And then I start listening to a couple, I'm like, Yes, yes, she is. This is exactly what she does. And so it's been funny to like look at all of that now with this new kind of angle, and especially like finally, and like it's also been funny too, because like I uh when I so I got introduced to Ashley Atkinson with uh Perpetual Housing Fund, yeah, uh, via her partner uh who did a lot of the real estate stuff before bringing her in for the perpetual stuff. And then I was on the phone with her just kind of explaining kind of what I was hoping to accomplish and do. And she's like, oh yeah, I was on a podcast, I was on City Cast. I was like, hmm, interesting. And then there was, I mean, someone I'm recording on Monday that you know, uh the good old She's on my show Monday. No way, yeah. Oh my god, that's the show. Jesse Queen.

SPEAKER_04: 9:25

Big throne.

SPEAKER_02: 9:26

Big throne. Uh excited to hear her story because like one thing I love is like, because I kind of mentally put you and her in the same category of these out-of-state people who have come and created a community, especially around, I mean, let's call it content, so social media, engage like this this broader world. And I do love like, and I've talked about it so many times on the podcast that I do appreciate these people that come in from out of town because they have so much more of an appreciative nature of it because it is so novel and they chased after it. Whereas me growing up, I'm like, oh yeah, like, yeah, we yeah, Bottom Hill Shoreline's been there my entire life. Like, cool.

SPEAKER_04: 9:57

Yeah. It's so interesting to hear you say that because one thing that we've tried to be really mindful about on City Cast Salt Lake, which, you know, we make a daily hyperlocal, kind of more newsy focused show, though I will say, like, it varies. Like any given day is like, where's the best burger in town? Or like, here's the story with the come and go and sugarhouse, which is kind of how I met Kendall, because I think similar approach. And one of the things that we've tried to be really purposeful about is eschewing this sort of like, tell your friend Salt Lake sucks idea. Because it comes up a lot. And I understand it. I grew up in a tourist town, and so I understand like the reticence to seeing your city change dramatically, feeling like there's an inundation of people moving here. But one of the things I've noticed talking to a lot of born and raised Salt Lakers is that I don't know that that like don't move here ideology necessarily comes from born and raised Salt Lakers. Like it almost feels like it's people who have relocated here that want it to stay exactly the way it was when they got here. Yeah. And it's like it it does, yeah, it's such a funny urge. But I do think like, look, growth is happening, so we gotta embrace it and figure out how to do it in a way that's smart.

SPEAKER_02: 11:11

Right. And change is change is inevitable. You might as well grab it by the horns and at least try to do it in the way that you want to instead of trying to fight it because it'll never work. Right. But I want to go to the beginning because I know, because like you said, you're not from here. If I remember right, you're from one of my favorite parts of the country, good old New England area.

SPEAKER_04: 11:31

Uh, okay.

SPEAKER_02: 11:32

Or am I completely mistaken?

SPEAKER_04: 11:33

I want you to understand why my face just reacted that way because where I'm actually from, no one has ever described to me as one of their favorite parts of the country.

SPEAKER_01: 11:41

You're like, who is this kid?

SPEAKER_04: 11:42

I am from Florida. And so when you were like one of my favorite parts of the country, I was like, could it be?

SPEAKER_01: 11:48

And then New England.

SPEAKER_04: 11:50

I was like, oh yeah, okay. Um, I went to college in New England and I lived there. So, what part of the before moving here? But I am from Sarasota, Florida, which is like an hour south of Tampa.

SPEAKER_00: 12:00

Got it.

SPEAKER_04: 12:01

Tampa Bay kind of area. It's very Margaritaville. Like, that is where I grew up. Like I I remember like being not drinking age and like going to really divy kind of ramshackle places on the beach where like people would drink a pitcher of Land Shark and get drunk and dance and then like row in dinghies out to their houseboat where they would sleep for the night. Like that is like son of a son of a sailor kind of beachy vibe. Very different from Salt Lake City and the Wasatch Front. I I still don't ski. Um, but this feels like home now. And I do think there's like, I don't know, there's like a little bit of Florida everywhere.

SPEAKER_02: 12:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 12:44

Uh, because there's a little bit of everywhere in Florida.

SPEAKER_02: 12:46

Like the opposite of Corona, find your beach. It's like Florida, we're waiting somewhere.

SPEAKER_04: 12:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 12:51

You don't know who we are.

SPEAKER_04: 12:52

Right, exactly. Florida, where's your corona? But like I do think, um, yeah, it it was such an interesting place to be raised. And I do love it. But Florida, and I I hear this from Utah's a lot. Like, I think Utah and Florida share this problem of like when you are from here and you leave the state, you spend the rest of your life defending it. Like, and and it's that's it's that thing where like if someone talks shit about your sibling, you're like, only I can talk shit about my sibling. Like, how dare you? And I think I feel that way about Florida, and I know a lot of Utah's feel that way too, where it's like, I'm I'm gonna make fun of like, you know, my Stanley adventure quencher carrying like suburban neighbors, but like, don't you dare come for those women. They are saints, like, you know, and so I feel that way about Florida too. I'm kind of defensive.

SPEAKER_02: 13:41

I mean, understandable. I mean, everybody has a little soft spot for their home, even if it's not a place that anyone would describe as one of their favorite places in the world. For sure. But it's uh it has its place, it has its need. Our retired folk love to settle down, and you know, people are there. Good for it.

SPEAKER_04: 13:59

It's where New York goes to die. Like, what more did you ask for?

SPEAKER_02: 14:01

True. So grew up in Florida. I mean, what made you want to go up to the I mean, very northeast to go to school?

SPEAKER_04: 14:09

Yeah. Um, pretty simple sort of answer is that I was an angsty teenager and one of my parents was living in Vancouver, British Columbia, and the other one was living in Sarasota, Florida, and I thought, what place is equidistantly far from both of them? And so if you kind of draw lines, they meet in Vermont. And so I went, I also like wanted to study foreign languages, and I went to a school that was known for foreign languages, and so it all just kind of came together. It ended up being the only college I applied to was the college I went to in Vermont, which was like a real gamble. Um, and I was there for like five or six years. I actually lived in kind of near Burlington, Vermont, which there are. Shout out to all your listeners who are from Vermont because I know there are have to be some.

SPEAKER_02: 15:00

Like I mean, even guests Karim Benoit's from Vermont. So we've had a guest already. I'm from Vermont.

SPEAKER_04: 15:06

Yeah, because I think in part people are like, wow, skiing on ice is so fun. I wonder what it's like to ski on powder. And so people move out to Utah. But um I was living kind of near Burlington, and after five years of living in Vermont, and I was working this like pretty corporate job. I was working for Ernst and Young, um, the big accounting firm, and uh my house got struck by lightning and burned to the ground. And I was like, well, see ya.

SPEAKER_01: 15:36

Like, well, no place for me here anymore. No, on to the next one.

SPEAKER_04: 15:40

It completely, the house completely exploded, and it actually caused my roommate's car, which was in the driveway next to it, to completely explode. And my car did not, the windshield broke and like part of the back bumper melted a bit. But when we went back to the property to you weren't in the house when it happened. I was not, I was on a work trip, thank God, because my room was the bait was the um attic and I didn't have a smoke detector up there. I had taken it down. Like, shout out to my landlord, he tried. And um, and the actually the firefighters were like, We we don't know what would happen if like you had been up there. So yeah, I was in Los Angeles on a work trip. And I woke up in the morning to like all these texts on my phone that were just like, oh my God, I heard like heard what? When you roll over and you have like 140 messages that are like, can't believe it, are you okay? You're just like, what could it possibly be? And yet still, I didn't manage to even conjure the thought that it was that my house had been struck by lightning and exploded.

SPEAKER_02: 16:39

I mean, that's usually the number one thought that goes through my head if I get like more than five text messages in the morning, like, my house must have blown up. I knew it. I knew this was gonna happen sometimes.

SPEAKER_04: 16:48

Damn it. It must have been the Keurig. Uh yeah, no, it's like the wildest thing. But um we went back to the property just to kind of, I don't know, you just kind of go have a look. Like it's like a post-mortem, right?

SPEAKER_02: 16:59

I mean, I'd be curious anyway, be like, all right, what does everything look like after it's burnt to a crisp?

SPEAKER_04: 17:03

And it was full walking dead, like the grass was black, like just truly bizarre. But I, the real reason I had to go back was to get my car because it was still there in the far right part of the driveway. And what was in my car, aside from like very basic things like a post-it that said, like, I don't know, don't forget to shave your legs or whatever, was a bag of coal. We'd been planning a camping trip. And I was like, wow, that's rude, universe.

SPEAKER_02: 17:33

It's like one of those moments you're like, so is this a simulation? I really am questioning everything.

SPEAKER_04: 17:38

It's so strange. But yeah, I mean, uh, that kind of catapulted a change in direction in my life for me. Cause I was like, well, I don't have all this stuff that I need to pay for anymore. It's gone, so I can quit my job.

SPEAKER_02: 17:51

Yeah. So you quit Ersin? And so is this when Utah was on the radar, or are you still like, nah, let's see where else is close, close enough to mom and dad equally and don't have to deal with all of that?

SPEAKER_04: 18:01

Far enough, to be clear. Yes. Far enough, Eric. Um I well, what I did is I kind of just traveled a bit and kind of just yeah, roamed around and like what were some of the places you're going to? Uh I went to Bali and um I went to Thailand and I went to I was like kind of traveling around the US quite a bit. Like I was working on this like horse farm summer camp where my friend ran this, like It's okay, you were a horse girl, we get it. I am still. I'm the vice president of the backcountry horseman of Utah.

SPEAKER_02: 18:36

The more you know.

SPEAKER_04: 18:37

Yeah. Um, but my friend ran this like kind of summer camp, and it was really fun and silly. Like she would do stuff like all the kids would sit at a big long table and she'd say, Today we're gonna draw a chicken. And then she would go get a chicken and set it on the table and be like, Go. And the kids would be screaming, and the chicken is like and like running around the table, and they're like trying to draw the chicken and just fun stuff like that. So I did fun stuff like that. And then what happened was I kind of got on working at film festivals, which is something I had done previously in my life before going to college. I was really involved with the local film festival in my hometown.

SPEAKER_02: 19:13

What's the one in Vermont? It's like pretty big though, right?

SPEAKER_04: 19:15

Um, there's one in Vermont. Well, they there are a couple. There's like one in Burlington. I can't remember what's I think it's just called Vermont Film.

SPEAKER_03: 19:21

Got it.

SPEAKER_04: 19:22

The Sarasota Film Festival in my hometown had had its sort of heyday when I was in middle school and high school, and I always like volunteered there and stuff. And so I went back to Florida. I worked a year at the festival, and the long and short of it is that I ended up getting a job at the Sundance Film Festival.

SPEAKER_00: 19:39

Got it.

SPEAKER_04: 19:39

Which was, I mean, you know, is one of the sort of pinnacle festivals. And so I moved out here to work for Sundance, and the plan was to live here for six months, and that was seven, six years ago.

SPEAKER_02: 19:52

Famous last words.

SPEAKER_04: 19:53

I know, I know. People do like talk about the sort of uh, I don't know if there's like a really an expression for it, but the the landing in Utah thinking it's temporary and still being here phenomenon. Like even at Sundance, my boss was Australian and he was like, Oh, I came here for the Olympics in 2002, like 2017. So here we are.

SPEAKER_00: 20:16

Oops.

SPEAKER_04: 20:16

Yeah, oops. So, but this is such an easy place to make your home. I mean, I think um it's I mean, the small lake city of it all is really accessible. And if you're friendly enough, like you'll make friends quickly.

SPEAKER_02: 20:30

Totally. And like that's one thing I really love about the Salt Lake community is there's space for everyone if you're willing to do a little bit of work. Because there's so many, because like with Salt Lake itself, there is a strong sense of community which comes from I mean, the LDS roots of I mean, knowing all of your neighbors, you see them every Sunday, et cetera, et cetera. And then as people I mean, continue to build these communities, some leave the church, some want to try to find another community to replace it with, you find this group of people trying to find communities as well. And that's where you find this also super strong counterculture in Salt Lake that tends to um just arise time and time again, and there's so much nuance and and detail to all of it that it is one of those, this is one of those places where if you are looking for a specific group of people and you know what you're looking for, you will be able to find it. Yeah, and it's not that way with a lot of the people. Like even when I was living in Seattle, I mean the Seattle freeze is a saying everybody says like it's so hard to make friends there. And even as you get older, it's harder just in general, and then you throw yourself in a new geography, new place, new people, and it's overwhelming.

SPEAKER_04: 21:28

Yeah. I think Salt Lake has such an interesting cross section of people, and I think often. About like salt like accessories, like the way that we sort of accessorize ourselves in this city to nod or signal to other people that we might be in their community. Like when you see someone with a Stanley 40-ounce adventure quencher tumbler, like you're just like, I see you, girly. Is there is that full of diet coke and pebble ice? Like you're safe here. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: 21:59

This is this is your space.

SPEAKER_04: 22:00

And I also think tattoos.

SPEAKER_02: 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 22:01

Like tattoos are a big sort of way that people communicate to each other in this city that like they're maybe could sh could be in community together naturally. Um, so yeah, they're like, I don't know if you're wearing a GG Pip. Like I there's just like I feel like Salt Lake has accessories.

SPEAKER_02: 22:17

Yeah. And it's yeah, and it's very specific to yeah, because I think that's a funny like thing I never really thought about too much, but Salt Lake people are very communicative of how they like present themselves. Where like if you it's almost like if you had like a speed dating, it's like, all right, here's this person, you got like 30 seconds to look at them, tell me like five things about them. Yeah, it's one of those places where you I think I could do pretty good. And yeah, I mean I exactly I think your your point about tattoos is spot on. Like, um, I went to Michigan this year with a friend, and she was kind of talking because like I have tattoos. I mean, we were going to the lake, and if you like they're on my thighs, so if I'm wearing a swimsuit, you're gonna see them. Yeah, and she's like, Yeah, just you know, like my family in like Michigan's not a tattoo place. And I was like, Okay, like that's fine, like okay. Yeah, um, but then it kind of like started this thought pattern. I was like, Oh yeah, like Salt Lake is that way, because again, like a lot of people that do want to be part of the counterculture, it's an easy way to be like, see, I'm not part of them. Like, like I'm obviously like in very drastically not part of that, yeah. And it's been kind of like an identity for a lot of people that I mean, whether it's um intentional or not, it's always kind of been that that way. And so I'm so like so. When you came to the um Sundance, did you know that you wanted like because like you said, like Sundance is almost like this pinnacle of like film festivals, you're like, this is where I want to go, this is where I want to be. Yeah. And did that include Salt Lake and like Park City, or did you just know that this is an organization you wanted to work for and be a part of?

SPEAKER_04: 23:38

No, I didn't think that I wanted to live in Utah for a long time. And actually, when I finished uh six months at Sundance, I was in the process of applying for a full-time job at the Toronto Film Festival.

SPEAKER_02: 23:49

I was gonna ask if that was one that you do from there, because it's so close. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 23:52

And I was doing pretty well. I was like moving through the interview process pretty swiftly, and I felt like I had pretty good chances. But at the time it was 20, let's see, it would have been spring 2018. And um Donald J. Trump was the president of the United States of America, and I have a green card. Um, my dad is Mexican and my mom's Canadian. So I have Mexican and Canadian papers, and then I have a US green card. Got it. And I so I could work in Toronto because I am Canadian, but at the same time, if I took a full-time job there, then I would be removing a little bit like making more shallow some of my roots in the United States. And I was basically afraid that I could lose my status, um, which is both warranted and unwarranted, but it was a really tumultuous time, especially for people who are immigrants. And so I withdrew my application and I got on um a political race that was happening in Utah. And I did that for nine months into an election year, and then that just kind of snowballed because I was working on a Senate campaign, and the thing about these like statewide elections is that you see so much of the state. Like I was living in Sugarhouse with you know, friends who some of them were like born and raised Salt Lakers, and they were like, Yeah, we don't really like go to Brigham City. And I was like, wow, because I've been to three different grain farms in Tremont.

SPEAKER_02: 25:26

Yeah. I've had dinner at Maddox now like four times.

SPEAKER_04: 25:29

Like, what's your favorite restaurant in Bluff? And so I was like, it is so incredible to like build a Rolodex around the state, and also just to see so much of the state that by the end of that campaign, I was like, Well, I mean, my God, I feel like I should use the information that I have about this place. And also, the other thing about campaigning is just knocking doors. Like you're like standing on someone's doorstep in the second congressional district and being like, what's most important to you? And they might say, you know, zoning in my residential neighborhood, and they might say the deep state, and you're like, okay, like here.

SPEAKER_02: 26:07

We have to make something of all of this.

SPEAKER_04: 26:08

Yeah, we all gotta eat. So um you, yeah, it was just a really interesting way to like start to build an analysis of what this state is and who Utah's are and what it can look like. And it's also just such a time of immense growth. And so that was when I kind of decided, okay, I'm gonna like, I'm gonna stay here.

SPEAKER_02: 26:28

And it's such like an intimate way to get to know this, because like if I were to go, I mean, let's let's say Chicago. If I want to go get to know Chicago and say, okay, I'm gonna go with that for a weekend, I'm gonna go do my architecture tour, I'm gonna go on on the river, and I'm gonna go to bar, like like I'd be like, cool, like I think I get it. But in reality, like that's not life there. Like, if you wanted to actually try out living there, compared to like, hey, we're gonna go on a tour on this entire state, you're gonna get to know the city really well. But not only that, you're gonna knock on these doors and you're gonna talk to individual people by the hundreds. Yeah. And like the only time I really feel like I had a similar experience to that is I did summer sales in Texas in Austin and Dallas.

SPEAKER_00: 27:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02: 27:03

And it was like one of the few because I got back to like, well, how is Austin in Dallas? I was like, Yeah, people are really nice, you know, they really like to think about this. And this is where like that like just had like such a Wait, what were you selling? Uh Vivant.

unknown: 27:14

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04: 27:15

I was really hoping you would say knives.

SPEAKER_02: 27:17

Uh actually, that's funny. I actually did interview for a knife.

SPEAKER_04: 27:19

Or Tupperware Vacuums.

SPEAKER_02: 27:20

I uh uh interviewed for a knife cut co job. It was after, I haven't thought about this in forever. Thank you. Um, it was right after high school. I hadn't left on my mission yet.

SPEAKER_00: 27:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 27:30

And my mom's like, hey, you need to get a job. Like, you just can't sit here for like six six or seven months. So I was like, fair. And so all of a sudden, like, some I think I saw it like on a like, I mean, this is 15 years ago. I was like looking on some job where like, hey, do you think you could sell knives to stay-at-home moms? Like, yeah, like, are you determined? I'm like, yeah? Like, do you want money? I'm like, yeah. They're like, then come here at this meeting every Wednesday at seven and we will tell you. So I go, and of course, there's like, you know, you can make so much money selling that. You can do this. I'm not, and I'm like, this 18-year-old dumbass is just like, yeah, I'm in. And so I like get all their like, and of course, they'd bring everybody into the room after they'd give you the spiel, like, you know, we really saw you in there, we really think you have a lot of like potential. And I'm like, yeah, I do, I'm here. And then so lo and behold, like I get in my car, drive home to my mom, and I'm like, mom, you're never gonna believe this. And I start talking to her, and I just hear her eyes glaze over, and she's just kind of like smirking and nodding. She's like, Don't do that. Like, like, let's let's go find something else. And like, I think I catered for my friend's mom's company and that did a couple other random things, but yeah, glad I didn't do knives.

SPEAKER_04: 28:30

I remember one time talking to my friend's mom, a friend from college's mom, and she was like, Girls, you'll never guess. Like, one of your former classmates knocked on our door the other day and was like, Can I come in and cut through this like piece of marble with this knife? Like, prove to you that it's the sharpest shit around. And I think she actually was like, I did buy one from him just to be like, We're, you know, we're in community.

SPEAKER_00: 28:55

Thanks for the show.

SPEAKER_04: 28:56

Yeah, right. But that's wild. Yeah, I mean, knocking doors is like, it's so it requires a level of bravery that I I do think like we are going to lose as a society if we stop trick-or-treating altogether.

SPEAKER_02: 29:12

And trunk or treats, I get their intention, but they're ruining the spirit of Halloween. I'll throw it out there. Hard hot take.

SPEAKER_04: 29:18

Yeah, I I tend to agree with that. We need to make our streets safer so that kids feel safe walking down them.

SPEAKER_02: 29:25

Um how dare you be so pregnant.

SPEAKER_04: 29:27

But yeah, right. But um, but yeah, like just feeling like you can just go knock on someone's door. There are so many reasons that I think people don't necessarily feel that right now in in this state in particular, but it's it's a cool thing.

SPEAKER_02: 29:42

Totally. And so you're going from so you're knocking all these doors, you're working for political campaigns. Uh I mean, at what point did I mean transition into more of this like um city cast or like how did that come to be? Are there other steps in between there?

SPEAKER_04: 29:55

Um, one of the jobs that I had coming out of politics was working at KUER, which is the local NPR station here. And I um was hired to do events and engagement. And then while I was at the station, the host of kind of their like primetime show, Radio West, Doug Fabrizio, he would always kind of like ask for my opinion about things because I was young and like very opinionated and um always kind of like pitching ideas to him and his team. And so what happened is I ended up basically becoming a a producer on that, a part-time producer on that team as well. So I was doing events and community engagement, and then I was also producing Radio West on the side. And the pandemic arrived, and there were no more events and very little community engagement. And kind of simultaneously, I was looking for other roles and I ended up going to work at um a progressive political organizing group called the Rural Utah Project. And we were at the time doing like a lot of voter registration drives in rural Utah, specifically on the Navajo Nation, et cetera. But while I was at KUER, one of the things that I had chatted with a colleague about was like the idea of making a daily like news podcast at the station and thinking about how like that is how people get information these days. And like this is the new daily radio habit, and et cetera, et cetera. And he later sent me this Google form from CityCast National and said, you know, there's this guy, his name is David Plotz. You probably know him because he is the founder of Atlas Obscura. He hosts Slate's Political Gab Fest. He used to be the editor-in-chief of Slate magazine. And he is like trying to build a national network of local news podcasts. So what they want to do is resource local teams to make hyper-local content that looks and feels and sounds like their city and is. And so he sent me this Google form and was like, this is like kind of the thing that you were thinking about, like the whole time you were at the station. And I filled out this freaking Google form and like sent in a little audio clip of me telling a story, and I was hired.

SPEAKER_02: 32:17

That's so cool. Yeah. I mean, did you cold casting? Because obviously, I mean, for everybody that follows City Cast, they know that you are the host, the voice of it all. Did you know that you wanted to be the host, or in your mind where you're like, I just kind of want to do a producing thing, I want to do this, or you're like, no, put I I want I want the role. Give me the mic.

SPEAKER_04: 32:34

I applied to be the host. Yeah. I was like, I don't know. I mean, I also just feel like you apply to be the host. And then if they tell you that they're gonna make you a producer, you're like, great.

SPEAKER_02: 32:47

Aim for the stars. What I need is a job.

SPEAKER_04: 32:49

We're in a pandemic, have you heard? So um I yeah, but I I did apply to be the host, and there were a couple stories that I told as sort of like part of my audition tape, and um one of them was about going to a movie with my friend uh Sid at the Broadway and walking out of the theater, and she had this like thing of toilet paper stuck to the bottom of her shoe. And someone who was walking down the street was like, Hey, you have like toilet paper stuck to the bottom of your shoe. And I basically talked about how I feel like that is a very Salt Lake situation because in most other cities people would just be like, sucks for her. Yeah, no matter. But like only in Salt Lake City are people like, hey friend, like just wanted, just wanted to let you know. Like, got a little toilet paper, like how was your movie?

SPEAKER_02: 33:42

You know, what do you see? Oh my god, that's so great.

SPEAKER_04: 33:44

You're like, okay, that's small lake city, like we're kind, or at least I think most of us are trying to be.

SPEAKER_02: 33:50

Totally. No, I think that's absolutely true. Or like even in my head right then, I was like, what would a New Yorker say in that situation? What would someone from LA say in that situation?

SPEAKER_04: 33:57

They would just take a photo of you and tweet it.

SPEAKER_02: 33:58

Yeah, like this is gonna go viral, stupid person on their toilet paper on their show. So you so you obviously get the host job. And I mean, what was that process like of getting this stuff? I'm sure you guys had resources and like had this like City Cast stuff, but at the same time, I'm sure it's you're sourcing your stories, you're getting all of your content, your team's creating everything, and it really is almost like this. I mean, grassroots build it from the, I mean, brick by brick from what it was.

SPEAKER_04: 34:22

Yeah, for sure. I mean, we did have support. Like, we have a chief content officer who was like, okay, here's what we think makes a good show. Like they were kind of doing exercises with us. So it was like, let's spend a day brainstorming a hundred million ideas that you can have for a rainy day that are just like, we could do a show about this or that. Because again, we make a show five days a week. And it's not just the show, we also make an email newsletter that's like, here's what's up in the city today. So a team of four of us is producing a hell of a lot of content, like 10 items a week. And so, um, you know, they were like, you know, tell us, like, send us photos of your favorite buildings and we'll like turn it into a logo of your skyline for you and things like that. But in terms of just like showing up and publish, hitting publish and hoping that more than my mom listened, like that was terrifying. It's really vulnerable. Um, I had never had like voice coaching or anything like that, and I still haven't. I just kind of try and be myself. I think one of the biggest, the most difficult things, and I wonder, Eric, if like this is something that you're thinking through a lot as well with this show is like the urge to resist doing radio voice.

SPEAKER_02: 35:34

Oh, totally. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 35:36

Like people, and and I mean, we are coming up on 500 episodes. So that means like at least 400 guests, right? In the past two years. And one of the things that we hear most often from guests is, well, I don't have a podcast voice. Like, I don't, I don't have a good voice for podcasting. And it's like, um, there's no such thing as a podcast voice, like be yourself. But I think that when someone sits in front of a mic, and it's to this day when my friends come over and like pop in my little studio or whatever, everyone does the same thing. They sit down, they turn it on, and they go, Hello.

SPEAKER_02: 36:13

I'm they're ASMR voices.

SPEAKER_04: 36:18

And it's like, of course, that's what we've I mean, we were raised on Terry Gross, you know, but it's we we gotta move past that if we're all gonna be on mics all the time.

SPEAKER_02: 36:26

Totally. And like that's like it's funny because every time I have someone interview, because like it's always okay, put on the headphones, let's do a sound check, chat. And they're like, oh, okay, here we go. We're doing it, here we go, you know. And then it's like, okay, cool, just like tell me about your day so I can like adjust. Like, oh well, how do I talk? Like, talk, you know, like uh, but yeah, I've definitely had the moments where, especially when I was like first recording stuff, I was like, Do I need to do this? And so I I can I like you almost have to be intentional about it at a point, be like, no, no, no, no, like like knock it out, like you gotta be yourself. Yeah, and I think that's such like a better way to go. Like, because if I had to just put on like my podcast mask and my podcast smile and my podcast face and try to think like nobody'd want something that's unauthentic and like faking being something else, but at the same time, to your point, like it is something you have to think about and intentionally not do, or else the habits will start to come down.

SPEAKER_04: 37:13

Well, you also, it's such an intimate medium. Like, I mean, I'm so aware of the fact that like a lot of people who listen to this right now or who listen to our show every day, like they're probably using earbuds. So it's like, I am inside of your head. You know what I mean? Like, it's it is impossible to be inauthentic in your voice. Like you can do it with your face, you can figure it out in other ways. But like, if I'm interviewing someone about something really painful or difficult, or like if I'm talking about a topic that makes me angry, like you're gonna hear a tremble in my voice. Like, I simply cannot put that away. And so I think even just as simple as like, yeah, this isn't the BBC. Like when I'm if I'm reading us an intro to a show in the script is we want to. It's like I would never be like, Eric, I want to go to the bathroom. Like, I wanna, I wanna go to the bathroom, you know? So, um, and then I think once you get the hang of being yourself, you're like, oh, you know what's super easy? Being myself. Yeah. It's actually the only thing I know how to do well.

SPEAKER_02: 38:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04: 38:17

But um, but yeah, you cannot lie with your voice.

SPEAKER_02: 38:20

Totally. And so outside of fighting against the urge of podcasting voice, I mean, what other things did you learn going from producer to host or just like starting a podcast that you feel like we're learning along the way?

SPEAKER_04: 38:30

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02: 38:32

Um, oh, I've been training to be a podcast host for a while, or I took this class, or I do it in like in the mirror for fun. It's just kind of like I never like I there's never an intentional part of me, like, one day I'm gonna have a podcast, and that's my dream. It's like I like talking to people, want to tell stories, want to highlight things, and like, oh, this is probably the best medium to do that. So I did.

SPEAKER_04: 38:52

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I will say one of the questions I get most often is like, so what do you do for work? And I'm like, no, this is my full-time job. Like, we make a show every single day. Um in terms of what's difficult, I think um, I mean, interviewing people can be this is so silly, but like it's hard to transition between questions sometimes. Like you want to do that by being like, yeah, totally so. And like, I don't know. I I think it's like figuring out the balance between just having a conversation with someone and then also being a stand-in for the listener has been one of the hardest things. Like, when I listen back to some of the first shows we ever did, I was not great at defining terms. So, like if I had a guest on and they said, Yeah, so I was I called the DABS, I would just kind of be like rolling with it.

SPEAKER_00: 39:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 39:52

And now I'm like, oh, I need to be like the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Services. Like your job is to kind of be a little bit stage handing as well, because your voice is the only way to do that. So as much as a producer can kind of help you on the back end, like you have to interject. Um, so I think figuring out how to be both a performer and a participant and a listener at the same time can be hard.

SPEAKER_00: 40:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 40:17

Um, and then I think also just like making people feel comfortable when you're interviewing them. It's frightening, I think. Like most people don't have media training and and they're passionate and they they want to share, but like it's so easy to overthink something. Especially if like I ask you a really basic question. Like, if I'm like, so what's this project about? And you're like, this is it. This is the this is when I gotta get everything in a 30-second answer. Totally. That can be really stressful. So figuring out how to hold space and warm people up and make them feel comfortable without making them feel patronized, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 40:56

And like that, so my previous day job before the day job I have now was doing a lot of market research, a lot of like in-depth interviews with I mean subject matters experts, et cetera. And like, I mean, that was a good way to get into it. Like naturally, like, and my therapist is the one that gave me this term, but is like tabling, because I never really understood like could like define what this like thing I like to do. And I was talking to her one day. I was like, I just really love like my favorite thing is like three or four people around a table, bottle of wine, and just everyone smiling, talking, and just like, oh yeah, tabling. I was like, okay, got it. Defined. Yeah. And so I knew I had this passion for just getting together with people, understanding how they tick. Great, like authentic conversations getting beneath the skin. But then also have this experience with market research where like there's an there's an intended um thing that we need to uncover, thing that we need to understand. And so like as with like the podcast, like it's coming together with both of those, where a lot of me and like the questions I in the conversation I have is just like my natural curiosity. I just have like a fun way that I get to go about it. Yeah. But at the same time, I do have like a general flow that I try to keep in, but also don't want to be too beholden to that because if something, some tangent comes up, you're like, Wait, wait, wait, no, no, no, we gotta keep going down this one for a second, but we're we gotta come back eventually. Yeah, and some people definitely struggle with that, but it's I think like to your point, it's such an important skill to have, and it's a hard one to get if you're not quite there. But it's it's it's something that that's very beneficial in that, and just being able to collect people's stories in a um uh concise way.

SPEAKER_04: 42:23

Yeah, it's the Drew Barrymore approach to interviewing. Like, do you ever watch her show or watch clips from her show? Yeah, she has a chaotic approach to interviewing, but I'm kind of like, is this the future? Just being like, wait, what, wait, what, wait, let's go there. Like, because I mean, at the end of the day, like we are all consuming so much information. I also think sometimes on our show, like what we like to explore the headlines. But it's also often the case that people have already seen the headline. So, what can we offer them beyond the headline? It's context, it's a deeper understanding. Maybe it's a reporter being like, cracking this story required me to do X, Y, and Z, or like maybe uncomfortable in these or that ways. Um, and so sometimes you, yeah, if something is fun and it's interesting, like you just gotta go there. Totally. And then there's the magic of editing, which we try not to lean on too much. But oh, you know what I will say? This is all this is something that I've really learned is not to lean on the urge to to retrack things. Like, because when we're in post, if I phrase a question in a ridiculous way or I sound like an idiot, there is a temptation there for me to just hop on and re-say it. Yeah, you know, and and it there are moments when it's necessary, like Allie, we fact-checked this thing and you got the number wrong. We gotta retrack it, like because we fact-check all our shows. But um, it's a crutch, and you'll you get better if you just like can bear to listen to yourself and hear your tics and and then not do them.

SPEAKER_02: 44:01

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's that's one thing too. Like, yeah, editing is always great because like I can sometimes be very wordy with questions and like finally get to where I needed to go in like the last eight words. So we're like, yeah, we're gonna cut off the first 80% of that because we only need this. But but yeah, I mean, I and I like what you said about like kind of that Drew Barrymore approach of like podcasting or like even just content in general, because I think we've reached this point in time where what everybody wants is just authenticity. We don't want to be feel like we're being sold something. We don't want to feel like we're part of this group or put in this box. We just want to be able to feel like someone's being their authentic self with us. Like with Drew Barrymore, like when you said Drew Barrymore, I remember I saw like the first uh TikTok I think I saw was um from her was about uh oh what was it? Um it was her having like her first hot flash on show. And I was like, yeah, that's pretty authentic. Like I I'm not gonna have a hot flash on camera, and I'm probably not gonna tell people about it. But like, but that's kind of what people want. And again, like you said, like we see headlines, we see it on social media, we see it on Twitter, we see it everywhere. But sometimes just like a little more context. I don't want to read an article, but tell me what I need to know.

SPEAKER_04: 45:06

Yeah, yeah. And I do think like one of the things that's appealing about City Cast Salt Lake for people is the sort of like, we read the news, so you don't have to approach, like there's so much information. It's so easy to fatigue. Um, it's nice to be told what matters and why. And I think it's also just like, as is the case with this show as well, uh, the more hyperlocal you can be, the better. Like one of my favorite things about my job, because I often people are like, Oh, you work in like news media. Like, do is that exhausting? Do you are you an alcoholic? Right, yeah. But it's also like I never have to say the words Mitch McConnell. Like, I've never had to say them once on our two, five, almost 500 episodes. I've never had to say Nancy Pelosi. I've never had to, I don't think I've even ever had to say Donald J. Trump, like, or Barack Obama. Like, we talk about our city council. Like our the rock stars of our show are like the city planner, you know. The city transportation director, John Larson, is like, he's like as like big name as it's gonna get. And so I think people are able to intersect with information in a way that feels so tangible and so like relatable. It's like, I'm so exhausted by things that I cannot control. Please tell me who the person is that controls when my garbage is picked up and how I can make sure that that keeps happening on Wednesday, because that is really working for me.

SPEAKER_02: 46:36

Yeah. Do not screw up my schedule or else I will miss it for the first three months.

SPEAKER_04: 46:40

Right. So it's like, I think there's so much that we can do on our own street.

SPEAKER_02: 46:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 46:47

And there's so much to learn about our own neighbors and so much to explore. And it is not exhausting, it is incredibly energizing.

SPEAKER_02: 46:56

Yeah. And I think you're absolutely right where the things that, I mean, like CityCast is a great example of like these are the things that people want, like that impacts people, that impacts people's lives. Where sometimes when you zoom out to this like broader national, I mean international um like news beat and news cycle, like it's it's hard for it to be like, well, how is this impacting me today, tomorrow, or this like next week? Like, granted, there are impacts, and like I don't want people to feel like there's the world and the that we live in doesn't impact us, but at the same time, like there's things that impact us more that we want to find out, but at the same time, like it's hard to necessarily know what that medium is or where to go. And I think CityCast does a really good job about that because it is just, hey, here we are, here's what we're doing, here's a short little bite, have a great day at work. We'll see you tomorrow.

SPEAKER_04: 47:37

Yeah. And I think that local information has a sexiness problem. Like we just don't see local like elections or even local like decisions. Like, no one wants to go to a planning commission meeting, and I don't blame them. Like, what could be less sexy?

SPEAKER_01: 47:57

Thank God they're here to do it for us.

SPEAKER_04: 47:58

Yeah, right. But so I think like we're honestly one of the things we're trying to figure out is like, how do we make this the most exciting thing? Like, how do we explain or personify or like connect these meetings and these moments and this zoning and this, like all the stuff that you're just like, uh, in a way that can make it feel not just accessible, but fun and interesting. Yeah. Right. And like, I mean, the come the debacle with like the come and go gas station in Sugarhouse, I think, is such a good example of that. Like, if you don't know, at the corner of Sugarhouse Park, what used to be the Sizzler, which is like currently getting hit with the wreck and ball, I think, this week as we're recording.

SPEAKER_00: 48:45

Love that.

SPEAKER_04: 48:46

Um come and go wanted to build a gas station there. And the residents of Sugarhouse were like, on the park? Like we there's a gas station across the street. We hate it, we hate it, we hate it. And those are often the moments when people get energized and learn a lot about the process around that thing, you know. And like one of our most listened to episodes was can the come and go be stopped? Because that's a very enticing question to answer. Um, but yeah, it's the the headlines come in hot and like we get the alerts and we see them and they exhaust us. And so I don't know, hyperlocal is such a nice space to be in.

SPEAKER_02: 49:24

It's like, and I always like have this, and it's probably like the movie version of like, I mean, you see, like, I mean, all the old movies of people working in magazines, newspapers, whatever, and it's like they're like, oh, I got this notification of just sprint over here to my person and do this, and like I gotta be the first one there. Like, I mean, is there is is there that like excitement to it of like catching a story and doing it, or is it pretty much I don't know. I I just imagine this great excitement to it all, but I imagine it's not as exciting as TP wants to make it be.

SPEAKER_04: 49:49

We, I mean, for sure, like reporting can be incredibly competitive, and that's unfortunate because like news media is in a place where we need to be collaborating more than competing. You know, our show wouldn't exist without the Salt Lake Tribune, the paper of record, without KUER, without I mean, it would certainly sound very different. We have reporters from other newsrooms on all the time. I think of us as being downstream in the sort of news cycle. But so what we do is we're like fish, like we kind of chill and we watch everything that passes and we grab out everything that's important or looks appetizing. Or and it's like, oh, do we talk about this because it's fun enough that it's worth it? Do we talk about this because it's important enough that it's worth it? Do we talk about this because it's ridiculous or illustrative enough that it's worth it? So we like we're more curating. Yeah, we don't break news often. We have, um, and we've been the first to report on things before and whatnot. And like those moments are incredibly proud for us. We have there's a a Republican state senator, Todd Wyler, who's a total troll online, but can be really charming and disarming in person. And he comes on our show like often enough, and he loves to break news with us, and I think it's because he just kind of thinks it's funny. Like he'll be like, this is in the governor's budget, and we're like, Dad, oh my God. Like, but um, but we are not in the business of like racing for a story. Cool. Our angle is can we provide context and clarity? And so you might hear it from us a couple days after it's happened. Um, but what we're gonna offer you in exchange for that is a deeper understanding and less panic.

SPEAKER_02: 51:30

Yeah. And I think one good example that you did that I really liked was all of your interviews with uh Merrill candidates. And because I mean, sometimes it's so hard because you see all the ads, you see, I mean what they want you to see, but it's like, hey, like let's take a step back. Like, what is the platform? What have they done before? And like what matters to me. And so I think that's like a hard thing to get to sometimes with a lot of those, like again, like without having a place to have that context and like like depth to it.

SPEAKER_04: 51:58

Yeah. Sound bites suck. Like they don't serve us, like they circulate quickly, they stick in our brains. But like, if you're talking to, I mean, yeah, what you're referring to is our mayoral series where we interviewed all three mayoral candidates about just the single issue of homelessness. And the goal was to get them on the record on one of the most critical issues in our city and be able to speak to them, you know, not just getting the one or two sentence down bite that they had worked on with their campaign team, but talking about their record and kind of parsing out what is and isn't possible, right? Like if if a candidate says, Well, we're gonna do this, then we can say, Well, that's not within the scope of the city, actually. So how would you do that?

SPEAKER_00: 52:44

Yeah, why would you do that?

SPEAKER_04: 52:45

Or wait a minute, why is this really simple idea of just like having more public restrooms? So why are you saying it's so complicated that we haven't done it or whatever? Like, and they each gave us like anywhere from 25 to like 40 minutes. And yeah, I mean, in a debate, like you're just not gonna get that. You're gonna get three minutes per topic.

SPEAKER_02: 53:06

And it's not gonna be covering the things you actually want because it's I mean, that's how debates work. And like, I think that's one thing, again, like where podcasting is coming in right now, this intersectionality is that like again, context. And one good example on the same topic of races is like one of my favorite podcasts is the all-in podcasts. And they've had so many presidential candidates be like, all right, like we have anywhere from an hour to two hours. We're gonna ask a lot of questions, not a lot of them are gonna be easy, but you gotta answer them. And there's like times when they've caught people on their heels, like you talk about, like, oh, that's not in your scope. How are you gonna do that? You know? And I think that's really is what people want. Because I don't think I've ever talked to someone about a debate or a race or something like that where they're like, oh, I I'm very confident about who I'm voting for and what's going on, and I can tell you exactly why. Uh it's usually very divisive and manipulative, but at the same time, if you can have a place where you can push people a bit more and actually get them to talk about it, I think that's the direction that we want.

SPEAKER_04: 53:56

Yeah. I mean, one of the I would say like the shadow side of that is that podcasting can also allow for people to ramble and not be held accountable. Right. So, like the other side, because I mean, for us to sit in those interviews with those Meryl candidates who have been prepped with their teams, like they are armed and ready, like this is their shit, right? We have to be prepped. So it's like days of us researching and thinking about everything they could say and what that could mean, and like fact-checking in real time in the interview and things like that. And so to be able to push back, that's the unseen labor. That's like producers working really hard behind the scenes to make sure that we are prepared. And so I think like podcasting, it's such an interesting time because we're seeing it both used as a tool for going deeper, and that's so important. And I think there's the casuality of it also is a benefit. People feel more comfortable. Um, but then also if you just let someone ramble and hit publish, then you you've also just given air to something that might not necessarily be true.

SPEAKER_02: 55:05

Yeah. There's a lot of responsibility. With great power comes great responsibility.

SPEAKER_04: 55:09

Heavy is the head air.

SPEAKER_02: 55:10

Heavy is the head. Um, like I kind of want to go down this alley of like getting out there, um, exploring and talk about uh every bar SLC.

SPEAKER_04: 55:20

So how did this my nom de plume?

SPEAKER_02: 55:22

Your nom de plume. So how did this start? Because I feel like this is one of those 2 a.m. on Friday or Saturday, you're like, hey, it would be so sweet if we went out and we went to every bar and we checked it out, but it would not survive past the next morning. But already, from what I gather from you and your personality, you're probably the person who's like, hey, remember that idea we had last night? I already created an Instagram account. Their spreadsheet's ready. Friday we're starting here. I will see you at 10.

SPEAKER_04: 55:47

Did you just call me in dark? Are you saying I'm the person who's like, remember last night when we said we were gonna hike this morning? I'm outside your house.

SPEAKER_02: 55:55

I think you're the one that drives plans forward when other people would let it fall through the cracks.

SPEAKER_04: 55:59

You're right. I'm a cruise director for sure. Um, well, so we did an episode of City Cast Salt Lake that was New Year's resolutions, which we're gonna get ready to do here again next week.

SPEAKER_02: 56:09

So like a year ago. Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 56:11

And so it was like, what are our resolutions for ourselves? What are our resolutions for the case? I'm gonna drink less.

SPEAKER_02: 56:16

I'm gonna drink more.

SPEAKER_04: 56:17

Right, exactly. What are our resolutions for the city? Like, what do we want to see?

SPEAKER_02: 56:21

Yeah. Oh, I did see on your story that you guys did that yet.

SPEAKER_04: 56:23

Yeah. So we're currently collecting. So if any of your listeners have good ideas, send them our way. But uh, we're at Citycast SLC. But um, I was kind of preparing and I was like, look, I gotta have something good. Like, I just can't go out there and be like, I'm gonna drink more water. Like, it just it can't be that kind of year. And also, like on the heels of the pandemic, like our bars and restaurants have absolutely been through it. Like, there's every reason to be getting out there and shouting off the rooftops how amazing service workers are in this city. And so I was like, I am gonna drink, I'm gonna have at least one drink at every bar in Salt Lake County. And our executive producer, who was sitting on the mic with me doing the episode, was like, Are you sure? And I think she was, she was like, How many are there? Like, let's tease this out a bit. And to your point, I was like, So I already made a spreadsheet. And I was able to, you can actually just download a spreadsheet from the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Services, the DABS, of all the active liquor licenses. And so some of the parameters are even if I've been to the bar before, I have to go again. Like all the here's what I should say. There are 218. So 218 in 365 days. So even if I've like been to the Pearl before, gotta go back this year.

SPEAKER_02: 57:49

Which is a great place to go again.

SPEAKER_04: 57:50

It's totally the best. Um, gotta have at least one drink, gotta give it a Harvard try. You know what I mean? Like make a friend while you're there, walk the parameter, see every room, like really do it, not just like run in, take a shot, run back into the street. Um, and then I did make a spreadsheet and I have put like the date for every time I visited, and then I was writing little descriptions, but then you can see where I started to get kind of haggard and stopped writing descriptions. It's like basically mid-year. Um and then there's an Instagram account, every bar SLC, where I've been kind of posting photos and stuff like that to hold myself accountable. But I didn't think it would be this easy.

SPEAKER_02: 58:38

That's I mean, it's better on that side of it than the other.

SPEAKER_04: 58:41

Because when I said this, and then all of a sudden I was like, well, now I've said it. And like people who on a podcast to a lot of people, right, which is published for indefinitely. Um, people started reaching out and being like, I can I be your intern, like, and then there were also like people on Twitter being like, You'll never do it, can't wait till July when you give up, whatever. Um, and it's just been so goddamn fun. And like fortunately, most of my friends are also really interested in like getting a drink, like, you know, and I do think some of my friends are excited to not like right now what it's like to be in my life is that if you're like, Allie, oh my god, let's catch up. Like, it's been a minute. The text that you're gonna get back from me is like, absolutely can't wait. Want to go to the bout time in West Valley.

SPEAKER_02: 59:34

Well, that's actually when I started following every bar, is when you did the like the bout time day where you went to all the bout times. Yes, yeah, so very cool.

SPEAKER_04: 59:40

We've done some hysterical crawls. I did 4th of July in Magna, which is technically in Salt Lake County, and did every like at the strip club in Magna at 2 p.m. on the 4th of July, my friend Shereen is eating a salad, and I'm like, here we are. Like um we have been uh what were some other calls that we did that were really fun? Oh, all the country clubs, all the downtown hotels. Um I'm doing all the ski bars on, I don't know when this will air, but I'm doing all the ski bars on December 18th. Um so basically, like I love those themes too. I know. Well, because like if you turn everything into a crawl, then you really can start to organize and like heat map. Yeah um and then also like people have interests. Like um, we did all the veterans bars on the Friday of Veterans Day weekend, and I have two friends who are vets who came along and they were like, I would have never like I'm a veteran, I would have never been to any of these places. And like, so it's been fun to be a little bit thematic about it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:43

What have been um what have been some of the bars that have surprised you the most?

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:47

Mm-hmm. Thank you for asking that question. Because what everyone asks is what's the best bar? And I'm like, I kind of refuse to answer that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:54

Well, like on that note, like if you stood, like let's say I asked you what the best best three bars were, I could probably guess, give you like five and probably get one or two right. We know what like more or less thematically are, but there's a difference between being like, this is gonna be a good place, I have a high expectation, and it meets it, compared to saying, Do I want to get out of my car right now? And coming back and like, well, that was a pleasant surprise. You know, like when that expectation uh is below the like the the actual experience, that's what I'm curious about. Like otherwise, I can hop on Google, hop on Yelp, sort by rating, and you'll probably be more or less right.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:27

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I was surprised that I had probably the best cocktail of my life at the seabird and Drake.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:35

I love Seabird. When my Seabird at because I lived at Forthwise, Forthwest at Hardwire, I would go to Seabird and I worked at Gateway. I'd go to the Seabird there once uh all the time for like happy hours and stuff. And Matt, the founder of both of them, is probably one of my favorite bartenders in Salt Lake.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:49

I had an unbelievable cocktail at the one, and I've been to the Seabird at the Gateway before, though. I think when I was there, I just had a beer, so maybe I wasn't giving their hot their cocktails a fair try. But the Seabird Ink Draper, I popped in and had an unbelievable cocktail and was like, why am I not pregaming IKEA? Like, I think that's the other thing that I've realized.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:09

Before I get this Hoogendorf, it's time to go get a verde.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:12

Completely. Like, you know what makes it easier to assemble a Hemne's dresser? A cocktail. Um, you won't like fight with your spouse at IKEA if you're both drunk enough. Um, it has been a fun like side effect to this project to think about so many places in the city differently now because I'm like, oh, we can get a drink at X that's close to Y. Like it's like now I know that Paxton's pub is basically in the parking lot of the Target on Third West. And I'm like, I'll never walk into Target without having had a beer first ever again. So that's been like kind of surprising. There's a bar that's I I don't know if it's technically in Murray or Cottonwood Heights, but it's called the Midway. Have you heard of this place?

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:51

No.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:52

This might be my most surprising, amazing time of the year. So it's right next to the post Malone's raising canes, the all-pink one. Yeah. And this bar is, I would say, circus themed, but circus-themed light, like no clowns, none of the bad circus stuff, no geeks.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:13

Soft circus.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:14

Yeah. It's like there's sort of like in the middle of the room, there's kind of a circus tent painted thing. They have a carousel horse you can just like sit on and watch karaoke. Um, they have an incredible dart setup, like a full wall of darts. And the way that they do darts there is that it's free to play, but you have to bring your own darts. And if you don't have them, you can buy a bag from them and they're$7,$6 or$7. So it's like this little plastic baggie with a sticker on it that's like the midway, and it's the logo is a big tent, like circus tent. And then you get your darts. And then if you go back, you can play for free forever. You just gotta bring your perfect souvenir. My beer was so cold that the glass had like ice around the rim, which is a dream scenario. In the front, they have these really lovely fire pits, like a big, big front patio with multiple fire pits for hanging out. I went for karaoke on a Monday, and I swear to God, everyone who sang was like a professional singer. Like, I'm like, you sound like Amy Winehouse, what's happening in Murray? What's in the water in Murray? Like just at the time of my life, could not recommend it enough. The midway.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:24

Love that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:25

I think if you're a dive bar connoisseur, are you?

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:30

When the situation's right, yes.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:32

Okay. Well, this place is like, I don't know. It may be a dive bar. I wouldn't say it's super divey, like it's very clean and like delightful, but it's also just old enough that I feel like when a bar is old enough, it kind of just like gets transitions into dive bar territory, which is Bob's Redwood Lounge on Redwood Road in Poplar Grove. It is so fun in there. It's got those big, almost like Duffy's, it's got those like big round seating areas with red couches. The owner, Bob, is probably gonna be there. I've never met a nicer man. Like, walked us out to our car at the end of the night just to make sure we were all good because they were closing and it was late and we were kind of the only people in there. Um, but what's cool about that place is that it's been in his family since I think 1965. And it used to be a house. So if you look at the bar now, if you're standing outside, you can see a pitched roof in the middle of it that they like built around. And um, Bob told this story about how actually it used to be called Pete's Redwood Lounge, and Pete was his dad, and when he died, Bob changed the name to Bob's Redwood Lounge when he inherited it. And I was like, power move. That is so incredible. Like, yes, a new generation of Redwood Lounge. Like, please.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:54

Um just been waiting for the day for Bob to rise to the top.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:58

And it's just like I mean, talk about a family joint. Like, wow, what a wonderful place to hang out.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:05

So, what number are you at right now? How many do you have left?

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:08

10.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:09

10.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:10

I'm gonna finish early.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:11

What? Shout out the haters that didn't think you're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:15

Yeah, I gave my so it was January 1st to December 31st, 2023, and I will be done sundown on December 18th.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:25

Dang. Room despair.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:27

Room despair, yeah. Please be nice to like every bouncer and bartender you ever meet. Like, what saints? I can't even believe it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:34

Totally. The things you have to deal with sometimes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:38

One of the questions that I got asked a lot too, which I think is so interesting and indicative, is was I ever scared? Um, and I think like there, like, you know, there are not many situations in my life in which I feel unsafe. Like I'm a very friendly white woman living in like a very small, like basically Midwestern city. Um, but really, no. Like, I I don't know, like this idea that like bars are like inherently dodgy and unsafe, and that like if something is far from downtown that makes it dodgier and less safe. You know what I mean? Like, I think there there's some stereotypes around nightlife in that way. I never once felt unsafe.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:27

Yeah. You know, it's funny how like people would assume it's like, well, are you gonna be okay? It's like, yeah, I've been fine so far. Yeah, like it's not like the first time I've ever gone to a bar. And I can like also like Salt Lake is a pretty safe like place, all things considered.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:39

I mean, these are heavily monitored, professionally run businesses and institutions. You know what I mean? Like they're they are designed to attract and retain customers. That is the goal. So, like, I don't know. I I always feel like that's one of the things that bartenders do, a lot of bartenders do really well and don't get enough credit for. That's a huge part of the job. It's not just the mixology, it's not just the um how friendly are they or conversational or whatever. They hold space, like they set the tone in the room. And we have so many bartenders in the city that do it incredibly well.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:21

Yeah. Gotta curate the right vibe. Because I've been at bars where like the I mean bartenders being an asshole. And like now I'm in a bad mood. But there's had times where I've like sat with a bartender and like sat like even here, like I know like so many of the bartenders so well. Like I come down and just sit be like, I just need to chat with someone about something. Like, yeah, like what's up? Yeah, and like been some of my favorite nights just me and like one of the bartenders here. And yeah, I mean, yeah, you've probably seen the good, the bad, the ugly, and lots of opinions in between. So, I mean, as you look towards 2024, I mean, do you have another list-based resolution or it's still sitting on it? Or what's your what's your plan?

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:52

Uh I'm still figuring it out. I'm not ready to unveil or um commit to anything yet. But there will be one. It will be in our City Cast Salt Lake New Year's Resolutions episode, the first week of January. I'm still figuring out the direction I'm gonna go. Okay. But it is, I have set a pretty, no pun intended, high bar. Like, I don't know how I can please people after this particular journey. Like, some folks have reached out and been like, I think you should do like every this or every that or whatever. And I'm like, oh my God, am I gonna do this for the rest of my life? Be like 60 years old being like, I'm meeting at every brunch place in Salt Lake.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:40

Yeah, good job, Liz Girl.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:42

You're doing it again. I'm the listicle girl. I'm like Buzzfeed 2010.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:47

BuzzFeed 2000. That's so true.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:51

So I mean, I I guess outside of podcasting, following the beat of Salt Lake, following the beat of every single bar in Salt Lake, I mean, what else keeps you here? I mean, what if you're not podcasting or drinking, what what are some of the things you like to do around the city?

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:03

Or and state.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:04

I mean, you know what I really like to do is just kind of walk around. Like, I live downtown, and one of my favorite things to do is just like go for a long walk, like get a slice of pizza and like kind of walk up and down Maine, like observe. I want to be a part of and like bear witness to this city becoming more walkable. It's a big, like on the note of resolutions. I'm just like, let that be our citywide resolution for 2024. Like, let's cut these street blocks in half, let's make them more narrow, let's make Main Street pedestrian only. I know it's on the docket for the city and they're thinking about it. Let's fucking go. Like, let's turn that bit of like second east that's between the library and the city building into a pedestrian-only space. Like, I just want that for us. And selfishly, it's because one of my favorite things to do is just like go for walks around this city. Um I ride horses. Uh, I ride a lot at Dimpledell, which I think is the crown jewel of Salt Lake County that most people don't even know exists. But it is a 600-plus acre park in the middle of sandy, like sandy draper. Um, and it's actually an equestrian park. Like, well, horses actually have right-of-way in the entire state of Utah, but horses have major right-of-way at Dimpledell Park, um, which is why your dog should be on a leash there. But it's just like miles and miles and miles of incredible trails, and you can just get lost in there and forget that you're 20 minutes from downtown Salt Lake City. Um, so I think that's an amazing treasure that we have. And I like to eat. I like I like to eat out. I like to go out. If there's a new restaurant, I want to try it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:51

Like any on your any on your list that you need to try still?

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:55

Well, um new ones? I will say, yeah, there was somewhere that I oh, you know where I had a really good meal recently is I went to the Kinsen Noodle House in Mill Creek. Have you been there?

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:07

I had never been there before. Get the boat. Those things are incredible. The food was fantastic, the price was reasonable, the service was top-notch. Totally recommend that. Um, on my list is um well, so Victor's, which is a Mexican restaurant that makes the best pozole in the whole state, is about to move to a new location that's like kind of near trolley square. Um, and so when that opens, that's gonna be like I'll be day one. Okay. Day one getting postole there.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:44

I do love a good pozole.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:45

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So cozy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:48

It's the it's the time of the, it's the it's soup season. Or as I like to say, like really it's just like noodle broth season. Give me my ramen, give me my pho. And I always forget about posole, because but posole is almost, in my opinion, more comforting than Asian noodle soups.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:01

There was a time during like the pandemic when you know, all these bars and restaurants were trying to figure out how to get people in the door, whether it was for takeout or something else, um, that Alibi was making posole. Oh, and it was so good. And I loved that it was downtown, and so I'm excited that Victor's is gonna be like closer downtown for downtown lunch breaks.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:24

Yeah. I mean, I I totally echo all your thoughts of walkable city. Like when I was in Seattle, I mean, it was also kind of like during the Pokemon Go Heyday. So, what I would do is I would just throw in my headphones, open my phone, throw on like a podcast, music, audiobook, whatever, and I would just go walk around catching Pokemon, finding these new places, riding down new restaurants. Yeah. And I think that's part of Salt Lake that because so many people are from here and really have an experience like a walkable town where like you're like, oh cool, I'm out the door, I'm gonna walk there and see you in 10 minutes instead of like get in my car, I'm gonna go park and do this. Because like when you do walk through towns, I mean, even biking is like a similar experience, you get so much more interaction with it. You get to hear the you get to hear all the sounds, you get to smell all the smells, you get to see all the people, you get to talk to people, and you get like so much more drawn into the humdrum of it all. Whereas if you're just in this like fishbowl of a car, you really don't get that same experience. And I remember when I um was in college, I had this, it was short-lived, but I think I did it for like two months where I'm like, I'm biking everywhere. If I it's far enough away, I need to take tracks. And it was just such a great experience because like I've I was having these authentic conversations with people because they were right next to me. I got to, I mean, just be so much more present. And I think people don't understand the power of that, of really just like walking around and interacting with it all because we're so used to having a car culture. And I think Salt Lake really is like Salt Lake, broader Salt Lake is like a prime place for e-bike adoption, but I do want Salt Lake itself to be so much more of a walking culture. We don't need to drive three blocks to go somewhere.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:51

No, I mean, my relationship with density is incredibly selfish, and it's that I want all of my friends to live like within seven blocks of me. Like I want to be able to walk to all my friends' houses, you know. Like, I'm like, let's just get cozy, let's do it. Um, but the the biggest issue that we have, one of the biggest barriers, is just that our streets are so damn wide. Like we've just gotta chop them in half. Like we've got to infill. Yeah. Um, because they're also not safe. So um, I don't know. I think we'll get there. I mean, I do think like this administration, Aaron Mendenhall's administration, is is interested in in walkability. Um, and uh we'll see what the vision is for the next four years now that she's won re-election. But um, I hope there's a lot more on the menu in the way of cozying up downtown.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:47

Yeah. I mean, more community, more con more connectivity, like even with like the the nights they've had where they block off Main Street and like they'll have like the uh roller disco like setup. They'll have, I mean, I think that's was there in the resistance. It's so fun. Like, how do you go down there and be like, well, this isn't fun, I don't like this, like never coming back. Like, that's what makes it so fun. And and I feel like there's just like this new wave that's coming up of wanting to bring people downtown, and you see it in the new restaurants coming up, you see it in the new bars opening up and all these new experiences. I just feel like there's a lot of people who are reserved from it all for one reason. Like, and I don't know, like I'd be curious to hear why people don't want that. But at the same time, like I think it's just gonna benefit everybody so much more.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:27

I think people want it. Like, if you made renderings of what downtown Salt Lake City could look like if we embraced, which I think to be fair, like the places that we really need to start embracing density in order to survive in this city and to create affordable space for everyone isn't necessarily downtown. Like it's already been rezoned, like we've already kind of taken care of, we're already taking those steps. It is like Yalecrest, it's it's the avenues, the lower avenues. Like those are the places we need to see like small condos and fourplexes and things like that where you know we can more people can be living in a place like the Lower Avenues where you are walking distance from downtown. Um, I live in a condo in the Lower Avenues that could absolutely never be built today. It was, I think it was built in like the early 80s.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:13

Yeah, there's a lot of cool.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:14

I'm like, if you advocated for putting a condo like this there now, you would be screamed at by the neighborhood. But at the end of the day, the fact that on the little corner of my block that a hundred plus people comfortably live and it's right at a bus stop, like hell yeah. You know? So, but I think like it's the transition to that is so awkward. And it is like it is awkward and fumbly to see the city covered in orange tape because it's under construction. Like, that's not nice, it's not pleasant. The building of the nine line, the bike line that goes, you know, right across ninth south and connects the east and west parts of the city. That sucked. Like businesses suffered for that construction, it blocked their entryway. Um, you know, but the result we have is extraordinary. Like that's freaking awesome.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:08

Yeah, the whole central ninth area. You have like it being, I mean, the episode will be posted by the time we do this, but like when I was talking with Mateo, and he's like, oh, like there are restaurants forming from tsunami all the way down to, I mean, almost like third or fourth west. And it's so fun to see that. We're like, again, if we didn't go through this growing pains and this glowing glow up of like, we're gonna invest into this, we're gonna make this a little bit more space, communal, communal more accessible for bikers, yeah, and didn't put in that infrastructure to make it what it is, it never would have been, and we wouldn't have had the best breakfast sandwich at Central Night um kitchen.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:39

But and it and and I agree, like there's little growing pains that need to happen, but they unfortunately do need to happen. And we just have to realize that, especially with the population density. And there's a lot of issues that can be changed, like it's so risky for a developer to build condos compared to apartment or townhomes, which we've I talked about with um Ashley a little bit, of like how much more risk they're exposed to. And so there's like things like legislatively that we can do to make that better, because I do think there is a world we're working towards and want to have. We just need a little more cognizant of it, and I think we're getting towards the right place. Because like, I mean, I've been born and raised here, and like being seeing where the childhood home that I had and the solicit that it was, and the solic that is now is so fun because there is this new up-and-coming voice saying, Hey, we want to fight for what we want, not what's just there or what someone else is willing to put in. We want to be part of this. And I think it's such a fun time to be here. And I mean, honestly, part of the motivation for me starting this podcast was we need to highlight these people, we need to support them, we need to understand that there's this community of all these people that do want to make this the best place it can be because we have the bones for it, but we need to fight to have everything else fill in accordingly.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:46

Yeah. Yeah. And I think like the the lion's share of that work is everybody understanding that we cannot concentrate development, we cannot concentrate all this growth and change into one area, right? Rose Park can't be the only neighborhood in Salt Lake City that gets apartment complexes. And we can't fell single-family homes that people are currently living in to build them, right? So it's like, listen, like, you know, I've seen a lot of resistance on the east side of the city to things like density and people talk about neighborhood charm and whatever. And it's like someone, you know, building an accessory dwelling unit in their backyard that like a nurse at the University of Utah can afford to live in, like, that is not a threat to your way of life. That is an opportunity. Yes. A threat to our way of life is the fact that we have a staffing shortage of healthcare workers who can't afford to live in this city. Right. So building housing for nurses is not a threat. It is an opportunity. Not having nurses, huge threat.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:53

A huge danger.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:55

Which one are you more worried about, please?

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:56

Right. So I think what we have to do, all of us, which requires a lot of patience and open communication because change is scary, is be in on it together and and take equal responsibility and embracing what that change is going to look like. But it can't just be like that we have sacrifice zones where we put all our energy into, you know, building or reconstructing one area. It's gotta be across the board.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:26

Totally agree. And let yeah, we have to think about what the community needs, not necessarily like individual greed or individual desires. And there's I mean Um sacrifices have to be made. And like unfortunately, like there's gonna be those growing pains we talked about, but at the same time, we have to put down this foundational effort in order to get where we want to go. And it's there's no way to do it without any of that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:49

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, the city just adopted an anti-gentrification strategy. It's called Thriving in Place. Did you talk about this with Ashley a little bit?

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:59

No, talk about it a little bit.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:00

Um and, you know, basically one of their goals they've set is keeping people in their homes. And that the one of the key problems is that, like, if someone loses their housing right now in Salt Lake City, based on what this study has found and identified, there is nowhere affordable in this city for them to go. Like, that is a fact. If you lose your housing, like that you just will not be able to replicate the situation that you're in necessarily. And that is a huge threat to specifically working class people in Salt Lake City. And so, and working families, like entire families have to relocate. It's not just like, you know, it's not just I think sometimes when people think about it, it's like you and I like getting in the van. You know what I mean? It's like, no, no, no, no. It's like we're talking about families, working families. So, okay, then if we know that, then what we need to do is keep people in their homes at all cost. So, okay, Salt Lake City and Salt Lake City Council, you voted to adopt this plan and you've basically adopted this resolution. I'm interested to see how they make good on it. How do we develop in the ways that they're interested in while keeping people who are housed housed? That is gonna be, I think, hopefully, the vision that the newly re-elected mayor lays for the next four years and hopefully something that we witness in the next few years. Um, but it's a tall order. Yeah. Like that's having your cake and eating it too, in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:41

Totally.

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:42

I'm not an urban planner though. Yeah. I'm just an idiot with a podcast.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:47

Uh I wouldn't call you an idiot with a podcast, but you do have a podcast. Um, super cool. I like your thoughts on walkable city. We need to keep people like, cause like when you take away someone's house, it's almost like the like like reverse osmosis of the American dream. It's like, and we're just gonna take all this opportunity and anything away from you and spit you out on the street.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:05

Yeah. Um once you lose your housing, I mean, there's also this like when we think about, you know, the issue of homelessness or whatnot, like we often hear the language around like, well, people need to get clean and get a job and they need to just get back on their feet. And it's like, and how do you do that without having a home or housing? Right. Like, I think about like when I've even just had a bad day, like the kind of day where like I drop my coffee on the ground and burst into tears. Like, what do you want to do? You want to go home and like get in your bed and like ride out the feelings and then be able to reapproach the day or approach a new day with a fresh attitude.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:46

It's so important to have a safe space to recharge. And when you take that away from someone, you just can't ask them to recharge.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:56

Yeah. They're like instantly go. Like when someone loses their home and goes home, is faced with homelessness, there's like this almost like carnal recession that has to happen. You go from like, I need to go home to decompress, like, I have to fight to survive. I like there's these other issues of I mean, weather, threats from other people. Like it it it changes everything. And people are like, Yeah, why don't you just get clean and do this? It's like not that simple and a little condescending. Um, and especially like when you think about, I mean, the the opioid uh pand epidemic and everything that happened with that and how much like guilt there is with that, it's like, hey, like there's an entity that we were supposed to trust that put all of this on the streets, put all this in people's veins and mouths, and then all of a sudden they're screwed, and then oh they just have to like do better. Like it's it's it's it's hard, it's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people and thing that we need to do to do better, just to treat people like humans and get people better. Because like at the end of the day, if us as a society aren't growing and improving the average life of everybody, then what are we working towards? Yeah, like just so everybody, like a couple people can get richer and do all that? Like, it's it's it's kind of a little insulting. And like one of my favorite people on his pocket, Malcolm Gladwell on revisionist history a couple of years ago, had an episode where he talks about homelessness and like essentially chalks it up to a lot like the 90-10 rule, where it's like, yeah, 10% of these people are chronically homeless that need 90% of the attention. The other 90%, if you can support them, get them back into a house, get them back into a job, then they're willing to do that. And I think it's just an issue that so many people are polarized on that it's hard for them to really like get into the issue, understand the issue, and have opinions rather than just be a little dismissive and say these altruisms.

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:31

Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad I'm not the mayor. Amen. That's the job I would want.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:36

A hard pass. All right, Allie. I want to end up with the two questions I ask every guest.

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:41

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:42

First is if you could have somebody else on the Small Lake City podcast, who would you want to hear their story or get to know?

SPEAKER_04: 1:26:49

This is like when someone asks you what your favorite movie is, and you're like, I've never seen a movie, and then two days later you wake up and you're like, Oh my god, it's best in show. Uh okay. That is a phenomenal movie. It is a phenomenal movie. Um I I do think it's Bob from Bob's Redwood Land.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:08

All right, Bob, Bob's coming on the pod.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:10

He has a remarkable story, and he can also tell you a story about his son and his family. And I think like, I mean, what we've started to just like dip our toes in talking today is the immense changes that this city's undergoing. Someone who has been continuously operating a business here for more than half a century is certainly gonna have more insightful things to say than me.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:34

Definitely no.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:36

So you gotta get Bob.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:37

Bob's Bob's coming on, not Pete. We're getting Bob.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:39

That's right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:40

The new sheriff in town. Uh, and then secondly, if people want to find you, CityCast or Every Bar SLC, all of the things that you do, uh, what's the best place to find that?

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:48

Yeah, okay, this one's easy. So my everybar account is on Instagram at every barslc. Daily hyperlocal news podcast that I host is called CityCast Salt Lake. I do it with a team of three other young women Salt Lakers. We are on Instagram at CityCast SLC. We're online at saltlake.citycast.fm. And you can find us wherever you listen to podcasts. We recently got on YouTube, which is scary to me, but we're now officially everywhere. Spotify, Apple, the whole shebang.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:21

There you go. If you want to find Ali daily on your commute, your daily start, end-of-day ritual, and hear the beat of Salt Lake, probably the best place to find it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:28:29

You'll probably also just find me walking down the street carrying a slice of pizza, pretending I'm Carrie Bradshaw.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:35

Nothing would give me more joy than someone being like, hey, you're watching down the street with pizza. Are you Ali? Yes. Well, how can I help you?

SPEAKER_04: 1:28:44

Pizza eaters of Salt Lake City are officially not safe. Unite. They're all being watched. Um, Eric, thank you so much. This was really fun. No, thank you. And shout out to the Edison House for letting you record here.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:56

Yes, George and Charlie are good friends, and this place is great. But thank you so much for coming. I'm excited to share this with people. You're great.

SPEAKER_04: 1:29:02

Thanks. So are you?

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:16

Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Small Lake City Podcast. Don't forget to like, follow, review, subscribe, and share this episode with your friends. And we'll catch you next week. We'll see you there.