Stew Redwine (00:00):
This is Add Infinitum.

(00:18):
Add Infinitum is the award-winning podcast solely focused on audio ads, the creatives who make them and or the latest thinking that informs them how the space is evolving. And my favorite part, a roundup of recent audio ads with Analysis by yours truly, stew Redwine, and each episode's guest. This is season three, episode six of ad Infinitum. And today we're diving into something that might just be the most underrated tool in audio advertising or advertising in general, which is comedy to ye mighty Chief Audio Officers listening. Here's why it matters. According to research by marketing effectiveness expert Peter Field in collaboration with System One and Adam Morgan of Eat Big Fish brought to my attention by Pierre Boulevard over at Westwood One. Boring ads aren't just forgettable, they're expensive. Much more expensive brands have to spend two to 2.6 times more on dull ads to drive the same business results as interesting ones.

(01:13):
And humor is a powerful tool to make something interesting. The research from System One shows that the funniest ads deliver five times more market share growth than the least funny ones. Comedy has an enduring quality when it works, but we've all been thoroughly entertained by an ad. And then the next day when we go to tell somebody about it, we completely forget what brand it is for. We've all had that experience. So today we're asking, why don't more brands take advantage of this? What happens when we take comedy seriously in our ads? To answer that, we're joined by two pros who know a thing or two about making people laugh. Wayne Brady and Jonathan Mangum from Head Gums. What if podcasts? Welcome to Ad Infinitum. Thank you so much. Thank you. This is so cool. I'm glad you guys could do this. I remember watching Wayne on whose line is it anyway, over at my friend Brad Palmer's house back in Kansas City.

Jonathan Mangum (02:02):
What's Brad doing now?

Stew Redwine (02:03):
You know, I haven't caught up with him a long time. You're a terrible friend. You're a

Jonathan Mangum (02:07):
Terrible

Stew Redwine (02:07):
Friend. You're

Jonathan Mangum (02:07):
Horrible. You're friend. Horrible.

Wayne Brady (02:10):
Hey Brad, if you're listening to Add Infinitum right now, Brad, we're so sorry, Brad. You lost a friend. Yeah. You used to watch whose line sometimes with a buddy of yours. He misses you and he just brought your name up in this podcast. In this particular episode.

Jonathan Mangum (02:36):
He owes you. He owes you everything so much. If it wasn't

Wayne Brady (02:43):
For you, he would never meet me. Red Brad. Bread, bread, bread, bread, bread, bread, bread. You've never gotten your flowers. But today we'll tell you thank you. He loves you Brad,

Stew Redwine (03:07):
Thank you very much. I'm not gonna mention who I was with when I was checking out Jonathan's work early on. <laugh>, you probably shouldn't. All right, so Wayne and Jonathan are the improv partners and co-creators of the What If podcast. You just got a little bit of a taste of that and I've listened to every single episode of What If It Is That Entertaining On my Daily walks with my main man, Maverick, my dog. And I particularly loved the James Brown Bit, James Brown as a math teacher. What if James Brown taught math class?

Jonathan Mangum (03:42):
Hey guys, man, where's our teacher? The teacher's knocking on his own classroom door. Shut up. Shut up. Teacher. Oh some man, it's James Brown. Shut up. Teach class, teach us man, because X me, 10 to 10, 10 to And because Sir, come go round and down to me.

Stew Redwine (04:05):
I'm

Jonathan Mangum (04:05):
Not really understanding

Stew Redwine (04:06):
The lesson. I

Jonathan Mangum (04:07):
Don't either. I don't

Stew Redwine (04:08):
Understand what he's saying. Why

Jonathan Mangum (04:09):
Can't see to be.

Stew Redwine (04:11):
So you've both built careers, making people laugh. In your opinion, why does humor work so well in ads when it does work and in particular in audio?

Jonathan Mangum (04:20):
I think that it works for any message at all. 'cause once you open the door and you've disarmed someone, you have to be able to trust someone to laugh. So once those walls are down, insert message here, man.

Wayne Brady (04:30):
And music, it is for my personal take, it is the best conveyor of message and comedy. If you can make up a song on the spot, if you can make up a song parody immediately you have instant comedy gold. And when you marry that with an ad, whatever the product is, let's say we did a parody song for a beer and you marry that with a great rock song from the seventies or eighties and you're able to do a clever parody with that. The person listening, they laugh first. They go, oh, there's that song that was like, do do, do. And then they laugh and goes, that's funny. And I laughed because insert product name, the recognition that goes along with that, that'll stick. Not only will they remember why they laugh, but it's so catchy. And I think that that's the hook of this is musical comedy. When it works, it's catchy. And that's what you want as an ad. You want it to be catchy. So I think that's the one two punch. Give them the thing that they go, oh, I like how that sounds. And then give them the message couched in the comedy.

Stew Redwine (05:32):
Yeah, it, I mean immediately connects, you know, it's processed in the same part of the brain as memory and emotion. Sound is so powerful. And something else. You guys do a lot on your show beyond the music and the comedy that I was thinking of some here with like, how does this work, particularly in audio is when you do the sound effects. And so you'll paint the pictures in the theater of the mind where you're like do like sound of a door opening. I also think that's an interesting aspect of audio ads. It's like you guys are audio Foley artists that you pull certain very specific sounds that help move the story and connect with the listener.

Wayne Brady (06:07):
We love to create the scene, just like you said, it's the theater of the mind. So when we're doing something like a podcast and we know that maybe the viewer can't see us, we have to create that vision in totality so that we can suck them in. You said suck

Stew Redwine (06:21):
<laugh>. All right, so with that said, and we talk about this a lot, like audio's inherently powerful music, comedy, these things connect. We all know this. Like it's the stuff that makes being alive delightful.

Wayne Brady (06:34):
Yes.

Stew Redwine (06:34):
But a lot of brands still don't take advantage of it. For instance, we've worked with a few different life insurance brands and not one of them has taken on what I think is pretty much one of the richest territories for comedy in my opinion, which is death. And they won't take a comedic angle on it. And I was just seeing an ad for one of them on television where I'm like, why doesn't anybody do that with life insurance? Why not just lean into what's inherently horrifying and hilarious about everybody's gonna die?

Wayne Brady (07:02):
That's true. I think not everyone has the same perspective. Right? And I'd imagine as a client or as a business, you sometimes take the safest route towards will more people be offended at my take on this particular subject IE death than more people that will enjoy it. And that's the fear. And maybe what's needed is these companies need to get over that fear and try because we need to give the consumer more credit.

Jonathan Mangum (07:31):
Yeah. Especially since people that are buying life insurance are alive. Like you're not making a claim, you're alive. So I think most people would enjoy a sense of humor around life insurance. Probably not the people that just suffered a tragedy in their family, but those people aren't buying life insurance. They already have it. Right. It's a good point.

Wayne Brady (07:47):
And it's such a big weighty thing and we don't enjoy talking about it. You're exactly right. Lean into it. Lean into the, we're all in this together, it's gonna happen to everybody and here's how we can take some of the fear out of it by yelling into the dark.

Stew Redwine (08:04):
Yeah. And maybe you could move an inch towards it. You know, it's not that it actually has to be completely ridiculous, but just taking that tone and asking you guys as comedians, like let's say if we could transport you into a boardroom with a major brand that's looking to advertise, how do they discover their comedic tone and how do they find those lane lines?

Wayne Brady (08:22):
I think first they would need to have someone, because we both have done quite a few commercials and it always starts with the ad agency and of course the ad agency. Maybe if you're lucky, you'll have an ad agency where someone is creative enough or they've taken a couple improv classes and their mind is open enough and they'll say, Hey, what if, as soon as those words are mentioned, like our podcast, which is why we named it that, those are two of the most powerful words in creativity. What if, what if? So we take you right now. So we're selling life, right? So it doesn't necessarily have to be about the person that's already gone. So we're selling life insurance. So then we'd have to come up with the thing, what if blank blank and this is the outcome. So like writing a sketch, we'd have to think what are the two things that are, so what's one thing that's so absurd and weird, married with a real thing that would equal our message. And then from there we would have to brainstorm and then hopefully come up with a thing.

Jonathan Mangum (09:19):
And unlike an ad agency where you sit and you work and you pitch and you're drawing pictures and blah blah blah rather than all that. And then you coming up with what you think is going to be the ad campaign. You get waned and myself to record our riffs all day.

Stew Redwine (09:32):
Yeah.

Jonathan Mangum (09:32):
Now you've got four hours of riffing and jokes and songs. And go through that and pull out the gold.

Wayne Brady (09:40):
You have gold. Like let's try one right now.

Jonathan Mangum (09:42):
Alright.

Wayne Brady (09:42):
Okay. Just off the top of my head, I think I got something. Okay, son, come on in. Hey dad. Hey. Your mom said that you uh, you were having a bad dream last night.

Jonathan Mangum (09:50):
I was really worried that you all died.

Wayne Brady (09:53):
Oh look, listen sport, I know you're worried about daddy being gone, but trust me when I say that, you're gonna be all right. Really? Where? Where's mom? <laugh>, let me tell you. Remember when your mama dropped you off at school today? I remember that. She's dead. Oh no. But that's all right. Because here's what the last thing that your mama said. She said make sure that Timmy can take the best courses in school. You mean I'll be safe. You can go to college, any college you want, any college you think is cool because we'll have lots and lots of cash.

Jonathan Mangum (10:36):
Life I

Wayne Brady (10:37):
Lots and lots of dough.

Jonathan Mangum (10:39):
Life insurance,

Wayne Brady (10:40):
Lots and lots of green to make sure that your life will go, I just shot you too. Now

Jonathan Mangum (10:47):
I have even more money.

Wayne Brady (10:49):
You've got it son. With this new life insurance policy that we've both taken out, you'll be able to go to the finest schools. You'll be able to have someone take care of you as a provider. You'll have all of your needs met and it'll be set up in installments that you'll be able to get full access to by the time that you're 21 in annual installments in in an annuity. Thanks dad. I love you.

Jonathan Mangum (11:12):
So I'm going to Brad's house to watch whose line.

Wayne Brady (11:14):
Tell him I said hi.

Jonathan Mangum (11:18):
So that would be a part of the four hours. That would be ripping of course that would be the commercial. That

Wayne Brady (11:22):
May not

Jonathan Mangum (11:22):
Actually make it to

Wayne Brady (11:23):
Air <laugh>, but it would give us a place to start.

Jonathan Mangum (11:26):
Another fun way I would imagine it too is like what if instead of dying it was their ghost or still around, right? You're being haunted by your relative for not having the right life insurance. That way there's not that missing element of someone gone. Charles Uncle Timmy, what are you doing in the bathroom? I leapt out of the coffin and here I am. But you're dead. I know. And you are still

Wayne Brady (11:48):
Stuck in this broken down home. I know, I know. I thought things would get better but you know, I'm just trying to make it one paycheck at a time. If

Jonathan Mangum (11:55):
You had life insurance, you'd be enjoying much more.

Wayne Brady (11:58):
You mean if I would've taken out a policy on you?

Jonathan Mangum (12:01):
That's right. I know uncle to nephew is an unusual policy, but we'll sell you

Wayne Brady (12:06):
Anything you want. Really. Huh? You know what? I think you're right. I think I should take out an insurance policy on those. Not only near to me, but maybe I should take one out on myself as well. <laugh>. Ooh. Can ghost bathe. Uh, let's find out. <laugh> the end. <laugh>. Outstanding. Outstanding. Can ghost bathe <laugh>? Obviously Jonathan and I do not understand the inner workings of life insurance. <laugh>.

Jonathan Mangum (12:33):
Right? We'd have to get a prepper on the points of what you were trying to get across.

Stew Redwine (12:36):
What I like about it is that you guys step right up and you swing and the volume of ideas. Yeah. And to me, especially as AI is entering the space, you know you wanna talk about Yes. And or it has no resistance. None. Yeah. So to me the game is always like in working with creatives on our team is quantity has a quality all of its own. Yeah. But there's this pressure when it becomes a day job and it's corporate. Right. One of the problems I think in the ad world is that they're just wanting to get the job done. Job's not finished. As opposed to hey we're gonna come up with a hundred idea. Like it's okay, we can come up with a bunch of ideas to get to the good stuff as opposed to I did the three, can you pick one of the

Wayne Brady (13:17):
Three And coming up with, even if you sat for an hour and they were all crappy until the one piece of gold, the way that this particular works is when you watch something like who's lying, it's an anomaly, right? Improvisation by its definition, it's designed to fail. It's not a perfect thing 'cause it isn't written. We haven't run it through a focus group, we haven't sat down. It really is the first thought that came to your head and rarely is the first thought, the best thought. But it's not about the first thought. The first thought is merely a what if. Then the second thought is, Ooh, that was cool, but what if then the third, fourth, fifth thoughts are all building on that you'll never get to the place that you need to if you cut off that flow of creativity from the get go. You need all of those bad ideas. And those bad ideas ultimately are really lesser versions of the good idea.

Jonathan Mangum (14:03):
Yeah. Having done a lot of commercials in my life, what you're saying is you can just feel how safe it is. You can feel the seat belt around it. You can feel the life vest on the ad itself. Like, well they're trying to be safe. They don't wanna offend it just this ugly floating thing and there's no risk. There's no danger. That's what I like about improv. It's all danger all the time. And then when you apply this to ads, you're only pulling out the things you like. You can a b test till you're blue in the face and all the different versions of things you've heard. But it all comes from just this fun, spontaneous, creative thing as opposed to the fear-based ads that I'm sure we're all familiar with.

Wayne Brady (14:36):
And AI can generate. That's the thing. AI can generate idea after idea. But the thing that AI cannot do, I mean up to this point, is there's a difference between AI being able to generate something off of a prompt and having true creatives sit and go, Ooh, let me turn that idea around. And sometimes it's just the slight turning of the way that you look at add an idea. And it could be the difference between a word that then goes, that's funny, that strikes and that resonates. And that's something that only a human creative can do as of right now. And a creative that thinks a certain way

Stew Redwine (15:11):
When I find that the AI tools, they're helpful in doing those initial big swaths of a bunch of bad ideas.

Wayne Brady (15:18):
Yes.

Stew Redwine (15:19):
Like gimme 50 headlines to then get us thinking where if I had to sit and do that or if another creative had to sit and do that, it's very taxing. And you do have decision fatigue.

Wayne Brady (15:28):
Absolutely.

Stew Redwine (15:29):
But it helps set you up. I think something else, like you were talking about ads being safe. Mike Cesario from Liquid Death, which everybody loves liquid deaths work. We love Liquid Death and he set out we don't want to just be advertising funny, we want to be funny. Funny. What do you mean funny? Funny. How? How am I funny. Like make it actually good. Another thing that I see comes into play when it comes to advertising and brands is that you're not with professional comedians. You're not even holding yourself up to the standard of what you go home and are entertained by. It can be kind of a group think into going what's the safe thing? But yeah. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. That is funny. Oh that was clever that way that he said that. But you're not really holding it up to that same bar.

Wayne Brady (16:06):
Correct. Go to the highest version of whatever the thing is. And I mean we are speaking in generalities. I think sometimes it's easier, some things are inherently funnier than others. Some products are funnier than others. Some things. So I think it's up to your team and how they think it really does boil down to how does your team see the world?

Stew Redwine (16:25):
That is a very good point. Yes. And if how, I guess by extrapolation, I mean is how funny is the brand willing to be or

Wayne Brady (16:32):
Exactly.

Stew Redwine (16:33):
Because you can be Robin Williams at a funeral, which I guess is kind of what we were talking about.

Jonathan Mangum (16:38):
Sometimes I feel like, you know how people are very, like if you were to ask any of your clients like Hey, why don't you get up and do standup comic? They would be horrified. They're like, no, no, no, we don't wanna do it. Oh, they die. And so in a way they're afraid that if their ad campaign is trying to be funny, it's like them getting up doing comedy, you know, it's like, 'cause they're representing their brand. Here's the comedy I pick. So it's basically like me getting up and doing comedy. So I feel like there's like that personal fear of a lot of these CEOs of these companies of like, it's going to be me doing standup. You know, see how I'm equating that. Oh sure.

Stew Redwine (17:06):
I mean that's something we talk about too with sonic branding where I think people are inherently afraid to speak in public. They're inherently afraid to sing.

Announcer 1 (17:12):
I'm in a store and I'm singing

Stew Redwine (17:15):
And I think the same thing translates to a brand. It's like it's afraid to use its voice, but with you guys as hosts, you know, something that we're always trying to do is strip the copy back, make it really simple and kind of on the same Mike Cesario point of like, let's not try to do what only they can do. Instead, it's like an exercise in minimalism and discipline in the brand. Just giving you like, let's say 180 words of 60 seconds. Okay. Most of the time copy points will come through to a host. I know this 'cause we see this all the time. 220, 250 words. We've taken the opposite approach of going instead of 180 words, let's try to get it down to less than a hundred. Strip it and give you the room to do what only you can do.

Wayne Brady (17:52):
Yeah, that makes complete sense.

Jonathan Mangum (17:53):
Before you came in, we were doing an ad for hims, the ed medicine, and we did all kinds of just really silly fun things.

Wayne Brady (18:00):
Yeah. And it was really a cold read too, because we just saw the ad copy and then we said, okay, let's come up with a couple different scenarios. It's like a buddy counseling his friend. It's another guy asking for advice. But then Jonathan said something, he is like, Hey man, you're in my bed. He is like, oh excuse me ma <laugh>. And I moved his wife out the way and then I was like, Hey, you know, I'd love to help you out with your love life. It's like, oh please. So even just things like that. And this is great though 'cause

Stew Redwine (18:22):
It just happened and I talk about this. Hosts are people too. Like when you get handed copy like this actually perfect example. So I take it you just did an episode, right?

Wayne Brady (18:30):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Stew Redwine (18:30):
Okay, so the end of recording an episode, then it's, oh, we need to do some ads.

Wayne Brady (18:34):
Yep. Right.

Stew Redwine (18:34):
Okay. You saw the copy for the first time in that moment?

Wayne Brady (18:37):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>

Stew Redwine (18:37):
Okay. And was it well structured? Was it overwhelming? You know, was it super long or was it pretty good length and you're able to jump right in?

Jonathan Mangum (18:45):
They needed us to go for a minute and they kind of had written out the general bullets and so we just we're

Stew Redwine (18:50):
Talking like a single page.

Jonathan Mangum (18:51):
Yeah, it was like a page.

Stew Redwine (18:52):
So that's like perfect. So have you done anywhere you get a big long pages and pages of copy? Not yet.

Wayne Brady (18:58):
Right. This was our first one really? Our first official ads. We did an ad for that inferred some gummies.

Stew Redwine (19:03):
Lumi

Wayne Brady (19:04):
Lumi gummies.

Stew Redwine (19:04):
Oh well hopefully we get you some more from Oxford Road.

Wayne Brady (19:07):
Yeah, that would be amazing. But the fun part about doing it is we were talking to Thomas, our producer, and being a podcast listener, I hear when the host then goes, when my family needs something to eat, you know, I always reach for Stouffer's dinner and I go, no you don't <laugh>. No you don't. No you don't. You're a liar. And you've turned me off because a, I'm a little cynical, but I kind of believe that our brand of comedy is like on let's make a deal. And even on our podcast, we are very upfront with the people at home. We kind of take the route of, look, if this camera just broke, we're gonna make fun of ourselves 'cause the camera just broke. I'm not gonna lie to you and say, oh something's wrong with it. No, we're telling you what it is. So when we get ad copy immediately, like with the ED one, we're like, well no, I don't have erectile dysfunction.

(19:55):
I'm not going to lie and say, you know, I've been suffering lately for the, and it might make someone feel good, but no, instead I'm not gonna say that I have it. But we're gonna make fun of the awkwardness of talking about Ed so that we can present you with a solution. Because it is awkward. People don't like to talk about it. But look, we've got this thing. So we think around it. And then the other one was for the lummis gummy, I don't like to get high. I've had an experience where once I did and my body just doesn't work with it. So I said, well I can't say that I use these things. So we came up with something and said, where I actually say to Jonathan, you know, I don't like to get high and this thing is weird that I, and he then said No, but these are different because of X, Y, and Z. So we're able to tell the truth.

Jonathan Mangum (20:37):
Yes.

Wayne Brady (20:37):
But then we have fun in telling the truth

Jonathan Mangum (20:39):
And we submitted a bunch of stuff. So they're gonna be able to go through it and pull this line, that line. We like this. We like that there's a whole smorgasbord of comedy for them to choose from.

Stew Redwine (20:47):
That's exceptional. 'cause a lot of times it's like a single air check and then you try to go back and make a change. But I mean it's your guys' whole approach. Which what I wanna do is take that to some top spenders in radio advertising. Great. We're gonna rate them, we'll rank 'em real quick 'cause that's what we do on ad infinitum. And then I would like you guys to improve them, which with whatever time we have remaining in particular, there's one workhorse spot for ZipRecruiter. It cracks me up as far as like how podcast ads work. There was a day, it was a few years ago, my youngest daughter came in and she asked me, 'cause she said, Hey dad, I got a question. I was like, what's that? She's like, do you guys use ZipRecruiter at work? And I was like, what do you mean?

(21:23):
She goes, well it's the smartest way to hire <laugh> because she'd been hearing their ads in a kid's podcast, which there's a whole bunch we could talk about in there about co-listing and all this sorts of other stuff. But ZipRecruiter has had a spot that has been on the air for like a decade. We will get to that. But first let's do this. This represents millions and millions of dollars spent in the month of March on radio. Those top advertisers are progressive. The Home Depot, national Highway, traffic Safety Administration, discover, and then ZipRecruiter. All right, so here we go. Let's hear the spot from progressive

Announcer 3 (21:56):
Progressive nose. If you have to choose between everyday life and your boat, boat wins, whatcha gonna do? Take a boat out for a spin or go mail something. Boat wins. Are we cleaning the patio or taking the boat out? Fishing go Wins. Are we skipping that eye exam to go sailing

Announcer 2 (22:11):
Boat wins. Rescheduling eye exams can be a nightmare.

Announcer 3 (22:14):
Alright, fine. Eye exam then boat. Yeah, with Progressive you can bundle your boat with your home or auto and save with a discount and spend more time enjoying those savings on your boat. Progressive casualty insurance company, affiliates and other insurers not available in all states and situations.

Stew Redwine (22:27):
Okay, so that was a radio ad for Progressive. I want you guys to rate it as human dudes that might have heard that on the radio when they were driving Progressive those, if you have to choose the what if persuasive scale, we'll do a blended score between the two of you.

Wayne Brady (22:40):
Wow. To whomever the ad agency that they came up with These. It's no shade to you. We are just listening to this. And does it resonate?

Jonathan Mangum (22:48):
I would like to give shade to the ad agency. <laugh>. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. It's one of those that's just like, it makes so little sense right away that I've tuned out. So you give it a five.

Wayne Brady (22:56):
Yeah. You know what? I think I was waiting for it to be funny and in improvisation or even in writing, to me it was a gossipy sketch. And by gossip I just mean words. It's like when you're on stage doing something and no one has clearly defined, this is the end of the scene that we're going towards. So we're just gonna blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Until we get to that point. And then the end of the scene it's like bacon and it's like, oh, that whole scene was about bacon. I never realized that the entire time until they just told me at the end. So I get the whole bundling your boat and I just don't know who the audience was. Who was going to find that funny. I don't understand.

Jonathan Mangum (23:33):
Not only that, like who are the people saying boat wins? Like I'm imagining like five or six moms and dads wearing jerseys at a Buffalo Wild Wings yelling boat wins. Like why are you like, who are these people? It doesn't make any

Stew Redwine (23:43):
Sense. So I'm hearing you guys, maybe we do the Mike Cesario liquid death scale of Funny, funny versus advertising funny. This is solidly in the advertising funny camp.

Wayne Brady (23:54):
This is solidly in the advertising. Funny. But even advertising funny 'cause there are a lot of funny spots that are ad funny. I just don't want in this ad talking about boat winds. I'm trying to even decide what was the ad about?

Stew Redwine (24:06):
Well here's the whole point of ad infinitum is that if you were in your car right now and you just heard that on the radio, this is illustrating the problem that I find with most audio ads. You only heard it once. You don't get to go back and play it again.

Wayne Brady (24:16):
No, I don't get to go back. It's over. So you're basically saying this one in and out. So I either would've shut it out as just extraneous noise or actually would've gotten mad because I wanted to listen. It's like I heard bundling. So I'm gonna bundle my boat. Does the average person have a boat?

Jonathan Mangum (24:30):
<laugh>. But also I think they're saying that the boat, it's such a money sink. It's going to take so much of your time away and money away. But like what is the insurance for? Like is the boat gonna sink?

Stew Redwine (24:42):
Let's do this. Let's listen to one of my favorites. Okay. Of all time, which is the Home Depot. Let's see how they showed up in the last month. Okay. And then we can maybe grade 'em against each other.

Announcer 4 (24:53):
Get ready for spring with the Home Depot and bring bright, colorful energy inside with projects to make your whole home feel like spring. Like livening your living spaces with a fresh coat of bare premium plus paint starting at 28 98 for durable coverage and fun, vibrant colors for your walls and ceilings. It's never too early to start the season. There's a project you can tackle to get your home ready for spring inside and out with the Home Depot. How doers get more done in store. Only product varies by store while supplies last. I just love that

Wayne Brady (25:24):
Song. You know what? That didn't need to be funny. That is what it is.

Stew Redwine (25:29):
Right? Completely different.

Wayne Brady (25:30):
I get it. It's a different vibe. Home Depot, the spring colors, the painting. I see what it is. It is exactly what it needed to be. Even the voiceover artist, his voice had a welcoming inflection that I could picture him as the home designer.

Stew Redwine (25:47):
Maybe picture Miss Josh Lucas, the actor.

Wayne Brady (25:50):
Was that Josh Lucas?

Stew Redwine (25:51):
Yes.

Wayne Brady (25:51):
Oh wow. That was Josh. That's their voice. Oh wow. It was very nice, very welcoming. Made me feel like, oh yeah, these are the great colors in my home. That's the response that that elicited. And that song was good. Ding ding, ding. It made me bob my head

Jonathan Mangum (26:05):
Once I go, this is a commercial to paint your house. Once that clicked.

Wayne Brady (26:08):
Yep,

Jonathan Mangum (26:09):
I stopped listening. 'cause that's what it was. Not a bad way, but there was no hook. There was no ha ha ha. There was no little thing to keep that gnawing in my brain when I'm done. But I do know if I came home for example, and Leah, my wife was like, Hey, I wanna paint up the house. I might go, oh, we can go to Home Depot. Like I would think of the commercial, but there was no funny hook still there.

Wayne Brady (26:27):
What if we did something like this? Branson, can you play something almost like that music, it's not every day that you're incarcerated, but when you are and you're thrown into a cell, the cell can be a little dismal. This cell feels so gray. What if told you that I could change these bars and these walls into something that would brighten your day as you await execution?

Jonathan Mangum (26:49):
Well thank you prisoner 1-852-041-NINE.

Wayne Brady (26:52):
I also happen to be a Home Depot color specialist. Hey, you've dug a hole right through the bottom of the cell. I have using this Home Depot shovel that you could get for 5 99 on our brand new Labor Day sale. We can spruce up these places that you call home or four

Jonathan Mangum (27:09):
Walls. Aw, high

Wayne Brady (27:11):
Five. Here you go. And here's a poster to put over that hole. Oh,

Jonathan Mangum (27:15):
<laugh>. Oh thank

Wayne Brady (27:15):
You. Yay. <laugh>. Fun. Straight to the point.

Stew Redwine (27:22):
Yeah. And a different angle for sure. Okay, so if you guys were rating Home Depot versus Progressive or do you want to hear another one first before you rank order these guys?

Wayne Brady (27:29):
Let's hear another one. Yeah, because now I think that the rating needs to be in terms of effectiveness versus, 'cause I was looking for comedy, but in terms of effectiveness, like what sticks.

Stew Redwine (27:37):
So I will give you the audio lytics scores, which is the system we use to grade and advertisements potential for persuasiveness, which I will share those with you. But here we go. National Highway Safety Traffic Administration already exciting.

Announcer 1 (27:50):
Put your phone on D and D. That means do not disturb when you're driving and when you're going from point A to B, I need you to stay safe please. So always sing with me. So put your phone on D and D. That means that do not disturb when you're driving and when you're going from point A to B, I need you to stay safe please. So always remember this. B,

Jonathan Mangum (28:11):
Don't drive distracted. A message brought to you by iHeartRadio, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Project, yellow Light and the Ad Council.

Wayne Brady (28:21):
And the ironic thing is, someone had an accident as they reached down to turn up the radio because they like the song so much. Hey, on the D and D and they reached down. Oh no. So hooky.

Announcer 5 (28:30):
Yeah.

Wayne Brady (28:31):
Once again, just like with comedy, we talked in the beginning Music and hook you. I was there. I was there for it.

Stew Redwine (28:42):
I saw you go there. What was it about?

Wayne Brady (28:43):
It was about putting my phone on do not disturb.

Stew Redwine (28:46):
Now we're talking

Jonathan Mangum (28:47):
The only thing that like the first time they went, da da da da da sang the triplets. I would've repeated whatever they sang the first time. 'cause I liked it so much I wanted to hear it again. Like wanted to hear some repeat of what they just sung. It was a little bit of me that's like, oh this is cool and this is Vi being r and b, that now here's a very, very white man, <laugh>, who is now going to give authority to this spot.

Wayne Brady (29:07):
That was a little bit of a Oh, okay. But I did like it if I had any critique or any criticism. And this just goes to just like in comedy, whenever you're doing music, you wanna be able to understand it. I had to listen because the way, make sure that we're really hearing every word clearly in the message that you're doing. But I thought it was really good.

Stew Redwine (29:27):
Yeah.

Wayne Brady (29:28):
Okay, so, so far that's the standout. That's my favorite so far.

Stew Redwine (29:30):
Yeah. And it's kind of interesting. I hadn't thought about this before. Each of these is taking a different approach. So you'll hear, discover takes yet another approach. And I had not noticed that until Renu now with you guys. So let's see how Discover decided to show up with $1.7 million in March in radio.

Announcer 2 (29:46):
Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter? Right. And the best part they accept, discover, accept, discover in a little place like this. I don't think so. Jennifer. Oh yeah. Huh? Discover's accepted where I like to shop. Come on baby. Get with the Times. Right? So we shouldn't get the parachute pants. These are making a comeback. I think

Jonathan Mangum (30:10):
Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide based on the February, 2024 Nissen report. I liked it. Tell me more. Did you like it <laugh>? No. No one says, oh yeah. Huh. And then also, it's so awkward to me when people say the names, like you're in an improv scene of someone. Well that's really funny there Wayne. Like these friends have been hanging out for an hour before they walk into the store. They're not gonna say each other's names. Listen Jocelyn in the

Wayne Brady (30:36):
Story. I think I liked it because I'm not saying that I thought it was funny.

Stew Redwine (30:40):
That's okay.

Wayne Brady (30:41):
I do think that it achieved because of that point of it sounding like a scene. It's a theater of the mind thing. So if you are the demo and if you are listening, it's a little slice of life, it's a little intimate. It's in your ear. You're hearing two friends shop. It evokes, oh, so when I'm in the store, maybe I'm the person that needs a Discover card. So this other person, yeah, it sounds familiar to me. So I think that there is a person who, those two ladies may sound like their friends. I believe that that was a very female centric targeted ad. So when you add in the names and the naming, it's like listening to your girlfriends. It's an intimate thing.

Jonathan Mangum (31:19):
Here's a pitch. Hey Jennifer. Hey Lennar. Hey look, I don't have any money to pay for all this stuff. I mean I have a Discover card, but they probably don't take that. So we're just gonna walk out. Wait a minute. Are you saying that we should shoplift? We probably should. 'cause they're not gonna take a discovery card. Right?

Wayne Brady (31:33):
Well why don't we try Girl? 'cause I'm black. Oh and I don't wanna really try. That's dangerous as hell. You know my husband is in prison. He just had the walls repainted from Home Depot. Did he really? He sure did. <laugh> <laugh> new Discover card for when prison just isn't in your future. <laugh>. That's a big swing. That discover will

Stew Redwine (31:52):
Never take The slice of life scenes is always an interesting choice. And Jonathan, I agree with you. Sometimes the way this stuff is written doesn't feel the way people talk. And there is like these conventions of using their name with maybe is trying to do Theater of the Mind. 'cause we're trying to distinguish the voices. But you know, it's a balancing act. You're so right. Stew Red Wine,

Wayne Brady (32:13):
<laugh>. But here is the thing, right? Just like in improv or movies or you're writing, there are conventions and there are things that when we hear 'em we go, Ugh. 'cause it's hack. But there is a person that will listen to that that goes, oh, that's like my friends of that. There is that person.

Stew Redwine (32:29):
I feel like we're being good cop, bad cop to these ads. It's good though. It's good. Okay, so now we're coming into the final round here. First, let's listen to how ZipRecruiter is showing up with $3.1 million in March in their current creative.

Announcer 6 (32:44):
When you're hiring, have you ever felt like you're missing out on meeting truly great candidates for your roles? It seems impossible to find them, but they have to be out there somewhere, right? Well, they're not hard to find when you know where to go. And that place is ZipRecruiter. And right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ziprecruiter.com/radio. ZipRecruiter helps 10 million people with their job search every day. And because these people are actively looking for jobs just like yours, it's easy to find the right person right away. In fact, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. But if you're not using ZipRecruiter, you are missing out. So see what it's like when the impossible is easy when you go to ziprecruiter.com/radio right now to try ZipRecruiter for free. Once again, that ziprecruiter.com/radio ziprecruiter.com/radio never miss out on great candidate with ZipRecruiter.

Wayne Brady (33:44):
We will miss out because I would've tuned out. It's

Jonathan Mangum (33:46):
Too long.

Wayne Brady (33:46):
Could

Jonathan Mangum (33:46):
Have done it in a 30. That was a 60.

Wayne Brady (33:48):
Yeah.

Jonathan Mangum (33:49):
He's on so much Zoloft that he can't raise or lower his pitch beyond this mid center

Wayne Brady (33:54):
New ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter will help you find the person that you need to hire to talk like this to help you find somebody For ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter. We can find the people who can find the people. People who find people for

Jonathan Mangum (34:08):
People.

Wayne Brady (34:09):
Yeah. I would've tuned out so fast. It was too, too long. The only thing keeping it afloat for me was the music, which still wasn't,

Jonathan Mangum (34:15):
Didn't change. It's like

Stew Redwine (34:16):
A Stephen Soderberg film.

Jonathan Mangum (34:17):
And then it stopped at one point there was a music stop and he kept talking at the same like he didn't stop talking 'cause the loop stopped <laugh>. Wow. 'cause

Wayne Brady (34:26):
That garage Band Loop. Yeah, that's what that was. What would a uh, ZipRecruiter ad sound like for us? You

Jonathan Mangum (34:31):
Think I gotta find someone to do these jobs here?

Wayne Brady (34:34):
Hey man, you know what? My wife got arrested trying to sneak out of a store instead of using her discovery card. And I wanna break her out. But I don't know anybody to put together Crew. Hey, hey, you should talk to ziprecruiter.com. You think that if I went to ZipRecruiter, I could find a driver, a demolitions expert, and someone to take care of the cameras and all the various electronics. Not only can you find them,

Jonathan Mangum (35:01):
You can hire them and they can work at the place that you hired them for. Wow. That's what a job is. <laugh>. You know what, I'm with you. I'm gonna use ZipRecruiter. Recruiter <laugh> also, you can't say ZipRecruiter without zip, no <laugh>.

Stew Redwine (35:20):
Oh. So that is fantastic. Alright, so looking back, if you can even remember, it was ZipRecruiter, discover National Highway Traffic Safety Admin, the Home Depot and Progressive, who's the standout, the highway

Jonathan Mangum (35:33):
Traffic A. And they get extra points for being the hardest to make Sexy. Sexy back. Like it's such a mouthful of boringness that they made into a message that we got and was fun. So it's the winner for both of you guys. Oh yeah.

Wayne Brady (35:47):
Yeah. But I'm trying to think who probably got the highest score with regular folks then I'd have to go. Maybe it was like one of the talkier ones.

Stew Redwine (35:56):
Well, let me tell you what our performance framework scored them as. Yes. Okay. The top ranked ad was actually ZipRecruiter, one of the Talkier ones. Okay. It's also a B2B solution. You have a problem, we can take care of it like this. And that's where we come down on Clarity has a cleverness all of its own. There's a social proof component to hearing something in a certain context or hearing it all the time. That we as consumers, we as people in this environment, associate a certain level of trust to someone that's able to afford that. So if you hear ZipRecruiter everywhere all the time talking to you in what in testing has been revealed, a masculine voice, not so much anymore, but very authoritative voice

Announcer 3 (36:38):
Hate you like a newscaster.

Stew Redwine (36:41):
It's like the lab coat

Jonathan Mangum (36:42):
Experiment that makes, or when they give someone a clipboard, you are going to hate this, but you'll remember it.

Wayne Brady (36:48):
Yeah. Don't even know if it's hating it. It's like you are going to listen to me because I have the authority to tell you that if you need something, this is where you go to get it. And we go, okay. Which is the better version I feel of the version with the two ladies of the Discover. This one is you need this. I've got the problem with this voice. The other one is, Hey, we're women. Can I talk to you guys? We have a problem, but maybe we can help each other fix it.

Jonathan Mangum (37:13):
I would love to have heard the rejected ZipRecruiter ideas. I know we can't, but I'd love to hear the agency say, we almost went with this, this, this or this to compare 'em to what they went with. Just to see if it felt more creative or more fun or more funny. Well, that's definitely where

Stew Redwine (37:26):
We're gonna end. We're gonna end with their workhorse. I checked, it's still running on the radio. It's been running for a decade. I actually called my friend who was at ZipRecruiter. He had started shortly after it had started. I'm not gonna tell you his name 'cause I don't wanna hear a song about him. Is it Brad? It's Brad. No. I was this close to not mentioning that, but I wanted to honor Brad. So maybe it is time for me and Brad to reconnect. He loves you, Brad. Brad. Yay. It's a happy ending. It seems like it is. Okay, so just so you guys know the rankings from a performance standpoint, ZipRecruiter would be number one, progressive would be number two. Discover would be number three. Home Depot wouldn't be number four. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration would be number five.

Wayne Brady (38:06):
Really makes complete sense though, because going by the criteria that you're saying, if you're starting at number one with the clarity that there's a cleverness and the clarity of its own, then by the time you get down to a song where I need to listen to the song to hear the words, which is why I guess number three, it was the ones with the ladies.

Jonathan Mangum (38:24):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Wayne Brady (38:24):
Because as soon as you start deviating from me to you, communication to them, to each other, and you eavesdropping, then the clarity drops.

Stew Redwine (38:32):
Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yes. And that's if you're gonna be clever, you gotta make sure you're really clever. You know? And sometimes with all this stuff, it comes down to reminding them that you exist so that when they have need of you, they're gonna think of you. And that makes the case for being clear. So with that said, I love this spot because it always confounds creatives. It pretty much has all the aspects of cringe.

Jonathan Mangum (38:52):
Okay?

Stew Redwine (38:52):
Okay. And yet it has run for a decade. So, and we're talking about, I don't even know the millions of dollars behind it, but I know enough about ZipRecruiter and the team at ZipRecruiter and how they approach this stuff and how we approach this stuff, that there's no way this would still be running if it was not converting consistently. So that's very fascinating. And this was the one that I fantasized about. You guys improving <laugh>. So here we go.

Announcer 7 (39:18):
Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well, trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure you can post your job to some job board, but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along, which is why you should try ZipRecruiter for free at ziprecruiter.com/free. ZipRecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you. It's powerful technology identifies people with the right experience and actively invites them to apply to your job. You get qualified candidates fast. So while other companies might deliver a lot of, Hey, ZipRecruiter finds you what you're looking for, the needle in the haystack,

Announcer 5 (39:53):
Four out of five employers who post a job in ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day. ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire. And right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free. That's right free. Just go to this exclusive web address ziprecruiter.com/free. That's ziprecruiter.com/free ziprecruiter.com/free.

Wayne Brady (40:17):
Now, knowing what you're saying about having to repeat it and it's super clear what they do. This is ziprecruiter.com. I get it.

Jonathan Mangum (40:25):
I was transported into my car during rush hour and it's rained an hour ago and now my windows are fogging up and I'm hot and I'm fiddling with the radio.

Stew Redwine (40:34):
Oh man, it's the needle in the haystack guys trying to find the right employees. A lot of companies are gonna deliver a lot of hay, but they're gonna help you find the needle in the haystack. And I feel like I could just hear like,

Wayne Brady (40:43):
Ha, someone thought that that was so clever. But sometimes you don't need to be plus the people that are making these decisions. ZipRecruiter isn't necessarily for everybody, right? It's really B2B.

Stew Redwine (40:54):
Right? It's from people that are hiring. And to your point, it's gonna be like people that are hiring the cooks in the back. Bunch of drivers.

Wayne Brady (41:00):
Exactly. So there's a certain person that I feel all these ads resonate with a certain person rarely. And maybe it's with consumable goods and I'm talking like I know what the hell I'm talking about. But it seems like with more consumable goods, that's when you've got a general ad

Stew Redwine (41:14):
Yes.

Wayne Brady (41:15):
That you throw up and throw out. These are very tailored, specific ads. So sometimes the clever take on a hiring and a recruitment ad may not be the way to go if the guy who is hiring it sounds just like the guy who's doing this ad.

Stew Redwine (41:27):
He's like, that sounds like me.

Wayne Brady (41:29):
And his inflection was that sometimes you need to find the needle in the haystack. Yeah. If the dude that is hiring, he doesn't want to jingle. You need a haystack, you need a needle. He doesn't want that.

Stew Redwine (41:39):
Well, and related to the point you had earlier about the two ladies talking that sometimes we can outsmart our common sense or sort of, you know, it's David Ogilvy said that customer's not an idiot, she's your wife. Mm. You know, needle in the haystack is a very effective metaphor. It's simple. We get it. A child would understand it. It's like maybe at a fourth grade reading level, which is what Stephen King writes at, it's a successful way to communicate. Yep. So sometimes I think we even forget that

Jonathan Mangum (42:05):
We outlier ourselves sometimes.

Stew Redwine (42:07):
Hmm.

Wayne Brady (42:07):
Jonathan

Jonathan Mangum (42:09):
<laugh>, it's a completely free That's right. Oh, you didn't ask. I thought I heard you ask because if you had, I would've said it's completely free <laugh>.

Wayne Brady (42:18):
It's good. I mean, for what it is. I don't even know how we would improve that

Stew Redwine (42:22):
With the jingle, with the needle in the haystack jingle. Yeah. Is what I was hoping for.

Wayne Brady (42:26):
Okay. A needle in the haystack jingle.

Jonathan Mangum (42:28):
Alright.

Jonathan Mangum (42:34):
I can't find anyone to do

Jonathan Mangum (42:37):
The job. Well may Hey neighbor, it's me, <laugh>. I can't do the job. I don't want you. I

Wayne Brady (42:44):
Want better. Oh, who can do the job better than me? Uh um. Excuse me. I believe that I can.

Jonathan Mangum (42:51):
Who are you? <laugh>.

Wayne Brady (42:52):
You'll see.

Jonathan Mangum (42:53):
You're my needle in a haystack. I'm the

Wayne Brady (42:54):
Needle in the haystack. You're my needle in a haystack. You looking all along? You're my needle in a haystack. You've been looking, you in haystack been looking wrong. recruiter.com recruiter. The needle in the needle is so sharp. And I can be your needle in the haystack or the flashlight for your company when it gets dark. It's free. It's free at

Jonathan Mangum (43:17):
Z recruiter com com. And there we go.

Wayne Brady (43:25):
You did it guys. <laugh>.

Jonathan Mangum (43:27):
Thank you. Wow. That poor guy didn't get the job. <laugh> poor guy. He wasn't in either. He was a piece of hay in the

Stew Redwine (43:33):
Haystack. Ah, hey is me guys, this has been incredible. You deliver the goods, that is for sure in light of everything we've talked about. And then also just your experience. I mean A, as entertainers of what you do professionally, but B is just people that are out there hearing ads, listening to podcasts. What advice do you have for the chief audio officers that are listening? Those are the folks that are the primary audience of this show. Which are the people that are responsible for making dollars work in audio?

Jonathan Mangum (44:02):
I would say you gotta take a risk. You have to take a risk. If you want to be the big success, you gotta take a big risk.

Wayne Brady (44:06):
And my is a yes and to you, but it may sound a little different just like in songwriting sometimes you gotta keep it simple, stupid kiss. KISS. You keep it simple. It doesn't mean you can't take a risk, but make it such an undeniably simple idea that you take the risk and you swing. But we get it. We get what the idea is. It doesn't have to be dressed up in flowers. It doesn't have to be the most clever thing ever written by mankind. Just keep it simple and give it to us.

Stew Redwine (44:38):
That is excellent advice. You know what I want the chief audio officers to remember from today is funny isn't frivolous, it's effective when it's done right. And often that means leaving it to the professionals. There's opportunities to partner with shows like what if and give them the room to do what only they can do. Or potentially bring them in on the process separately. Get real comedians and real people that know how to make this happen. So you're not trying to be advertising funny, you're actually achieving Mike C's. Funny, funny. Like the reason why Liquid Death is a household name, why I'm wearing one of their watches. Humor builds emotional memory. It builds brand preference. It is a tool that you can use. And I think in light of all of this, you know, taking risks, keeping it simple, don't be afraid to sound human. In fact, currently be afraid not to.

(45:24):
There's only gonna be more dull advertising that's gonna be supercharged by ai. If humans have been so good at making 84% of all advertising not able to be remembered or correctly attributed to the brand, we now turn that over to intellect that's vastly superior to our own. You can only imagine. So keep it simple, keep it human. Take big risks. And Wayne and Jonathan, thank you guys so much. Thank you for hosting us here at Head Gum Studios at the What If podcast. Where can people listen to you and learn more about what you're doing on Spotify, on Audible, on Apple Podcast,

Wayne Brady (45:59):
On YouTube. If you want a video too, check us out on YouTube. Please subscribe. Follow us on our socials at Jonathan Mangum on Insta and at Mr. Brady Baby on Instagram and Facebook. Yeah, follow us for the funny

Jonathan Mangum (46:12):
And Stu,

Stew Redwine (46:13):
Call Brad,

Wayne Brady (46:14):
Please.

Stew Redwine (46:15):
I will. I commit to call Brad.

Wayne Brady (46:16):
Okay,

Stew Redwine (46:17):
Thank you guys. And to Brad and to the rest of our listeners, thank you for tuning in to Ad Infinitum. If you love this episode, let us know with an honest five star review. And if there's an audio ad or campaign you want us to break down, email me stew@oxfordroad.com. And don't forget, check out the latest ad rankings and insights for podcast ads at magellan.ai/ad infinitum for your free demo. And until next time, remember to have fun making the ads work. Zip.