Hello and welcome to Speak Honest. I am your host and certified relationship coach, Jennifer Noble. It has been my passion for over a decade to help women like you heal. What's been holding you back from having the relationships you deserve? Are you struggling with a relationship where you can't seem to voice your emotions, needs and boundaries without having it blow up in your face?

Then you have found the right podcast, my friend. Get ready for practical tips, empowering truths, and honest conversations. Now let's dive in. 

Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Speak Honest. In today's episode, I chatted with Sarah about an issue she's having with a friend of hers. I think it's really important for us to take our friendship relationships just as seriously as we take our romantic relationships. So I was really honored to coach her during the stressful time in her life.

And during the coaching call, you'll hear us talk about the drama triangle. So I wanted to give some information about that before we dive right in.  Well, the drama triangle is originally conceptualized by Dr. Steven Karpman. It's a social model that maps out the dynamics of human interaction. especially in stressful or conflict situations.

It describes three roles that people typically assume in a conflict. So you have the victim, the persecutor, and the rescuer. First, we have the victim. The role is usually characterized by feelings of helplessness, dependency on others for solutions, and a general sense of being at the mercy of life's circumstances.

Victims often feel powerless and believe they have no choice. control over the situation or their lives.  And next we have the persecutor. This is the person who uses blame, criticism, or authority to assert their power over others. They often justify their actions as a form of helping or correcting.

However, this can lead to a cycle of resentment. and more conflict. And then lastly, in the triangle, we have the rescuer. The rescuer seeks to alleviate the victim's suffering, often without even being asked. So it's the person who swoops in to help. And while this might seem helpful, it can actually prevent the victim from learning to solve their own problems and can lead to a sense of inadequacy.

So rescuers might neglect their own needs. In the process,  see the key to breaking free from the drama triangle is awareness and active decision making  by recognizing these roles and the dynamics at play. People can really step out of these patterns and engage in healthier, more. More constructive interactions.

And this involves adopting a stance of empowerment, taking responsibility for one's actions and encouraging others to do the same  transitioning from these archetypal type rules to more autonomous and interdependent ways of relating. It can really transform conflict into opportunities for growth and deeper connection.

So as you listen to Sarah's story, Consider the roles within the drama triangle and how they might be influencing her situation. And then I want you to reflect on your own life as well. Do you recognize these dynamics in your own relationships? How can you move towards a more open and empowering interaction? 

Let's keep these questions in mind as we dive into today's episode. 

Okay. Hi there, Sarah. Thank you so much for agreeing to be on the podcast here with me today. And how can I help you today? 

Oh, well, I was thinking about  a particular pattern that I have, which I have been working on, but it has It still keeps rising,  coming to the surface.  And the pattern is that in, I am a FA, which is fearful, avoided attachment style.

And so one of the things that, that we tend to do is if, if we feel, you know, unsafe or we feel that really betrayed, we tend to, , or I tend to want to cut off from that person. And so the pattern that I have. That  is bothering me a little bit is that when, when that occurs, and it happened recently with a, with a person and her name is Rachel.

And Rachel basically contacted me under the auspice or the idea that she wanted me to feature somebody on my podcast. And she wasn't really transparent, which I knew, and I could feel it. She's like, oh, I just think this person would be good for your podcast, but I really, really knew that it was 1 of her clients. 

And instead of just saying, , this would be really helpful for me. So there was already that underlying the interaction that I was like,, you know, I'm not feeling good about it. So I interviewed the clients of hers. And I said, well, the condition is I'd like to do a podcast exchange because, ,  I feel like that'll be beneficial for both of us. 

And she's like, well, she doesn't have a podcast, but she has a rumble channel. And I said, okay, that's fine. And so I went ahead and interviewed the person, and it was actually a really good interview, but the sound quality wasn't perfect. I guess my mic was too close to me. It was a little bit loud.  So Rachel came back and told me this feedback and I said, yeah, no, I hear you.

 But I hadn't mentioned that I can edit it, which I could, which I did in the end. She said, yeah, it really didn't sound good. And I'm like, okay, I can take that constructive criticism. But then she came back to me. Again, and really criticized and said, really, it was annoying. And, I was just thinking, wow, I've done this person a favor,  she's making money off this client, which she's not being transparent about, and you're complaining to me about my podcast and something switched.

I got really mad and I'm like, first of all, I didn't ask you for your feedback. I heard you the first time. And I really am aware that you weren't transparent with me that this was your client and you were wanting a favor and I just boom, I let it all out  and.  Then I just blocked her. I just like, I don't want anything to do with this person.

I really see who she is. I, I just was like, I'm done. I was done. Yeah. And I'm like, and I know that's probably not the best solution,  

but yeah, we'll see.  Even though 

as I tell you this, I still feel, I'm glad I blocked her. 

Good. I mean, that makes me happy for you that, , you have a sense of relief at the end of this and there's something that I say a lot of times, but it's the action that we do is rarely secure nor insecure, 

I don't even know yet. So I can't wait to like dive into this a little bit more with you to see,, Potentially, maybe blocking her was incredibly great for yourself. It was taking yourself into consideration and you set yourself up with a boundary. , it could also be, if this is a pattern that you have a lot of times or you feel any sort of, you know, shame or guilt around it, we can dig into that too.

So it just kind of depends. So let me ask you a couple of questions. So first, let me just make sure I'm understanding the situation so you can clarify anything. Sure. So I hear you have this friend, Rachel,  and she wanted you to interview someone. And so you were talking with this client that, so this is a client.

So let me just get clear here. So this is see, Rachel is your friend,  how long have you known Rachel? Probably 

under a year. Okay. And I started to kind of get a sense of  Who she was, , over in the last couple of months that she's a bit of an opportunist.  , , I know that's judgmental, but I started to, to get that awareness, but this was like the icing on the cake for me.

, when I say it was a client, , she does, , social media marketing. Okay.  So she was, , most likely the client had bought a package. And I think at one point she did tell me before she asked me this favor, This person was a client. So I'm, I am certain that it was a client at first. 

Yeah. But this sounds like, it sounds like that's not your first rodeo with Rachel then.

It sounds like you've been starting to kind of have, , an understanding of maybe she might not be someone that meshes with you or is in alignment with what your needs are,  cause the way you were like, I've known her for under a year, but over the months I've noticed things. That's what I, that's what I'm, that's what I'm hearing.

Is that, is that right?  Yeah, 

well, there was another incident with this Rachel and I won't go into all the details, but she,  there was a betrayal, actually, where. We had a mutual friend  and  there was a silly argument over a bathing suit, which didn't make any sense. And I found out later from another mutual friend that she had screenshot my messages to Rachel and sent it to the friend that I was having a problem with, as well as screenshotting that friend's messages to, to Rachel and then Rachel sending it to me.

So she basically created this drama. She 

did 

a drama triangle. Yeah,  

we'll say her name, Leslie screenshots and showing Leslie my screenshots of my conversation and literally the friendship completely broke up  because we both were like, wow, why did this person say this? Why did this person say this? So, I guess it goes back to that is been in the back of my mind.

Like, I don't think I can trust this person.  And  then this occurred with her client. And the podcast situation. So I think I was  already feeling very unsure of her when that happened.  Yeah, 

I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, like so I think for you, I mean, even potentially the blocking of her again, I think we can get into that because I think if we want to go full secure, , if we want to go full, like all the way to the point of like, how could we handle this in the future with a future time?

Because you've mentioned this as a pattern,? So what I think what we might do here is just kind of set you up. This is going to happen again,  this is life. Like, and unfortunately, like the people we bring into our lives, it's so annoying, but they just keep coming back,  like in a different form and a different name and a different person.

And so this is likely going to happen again. And so let's give you some more like tips and tools of how to handle it for the future one. But at the same time, I'm still just, you know, saying, I think it's great that you're learning about what you do and don't handle in your relationships. And I think that's a lovely thing.

So it sounds like Rachel was already kind of doing this. And I was thinking, have you heard of the drama triangle before? Yes, I have. Okay. Yeah. So for those like not sure, it's just, it's where you kind of have like this persecutor, I think it's rescuer and victim kind of triangle. And it sounds like the kind of Rachel maybe got you sucked into this a little bit and maybe she herself likes, you know, the drama of it all.

And it kind of, kind of elicit people to kind of get that almost dopamine hit off of that. Right. So if we kind of see that, that's where she's coming from with that. I love that you noticed that about yourself though.

So with this, you're talking to Rachel's client didn't work out. Now, Rachel comes back to you now. Okay. And now she's giving you, it sounds like feedback, more like criticism. She says it sounded annoying.  If Rachel had no history of the past stuff that she did and she came to you and was like, Hey, this is really annoying.   How would you have reacted in that moment? Does that make sense? What I'm asking? 

Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, with feedback, it's always good to ask before you give feedback  twice. 

I would have gotten, I would have gotten upset with anybody, you know, you know, because it's like, wow, this is unsolicited. And not only did you do it once, but then you did it twice. And the second time was even worse.  I, you know, I would have said any friend, like a good friend, I would have said, Hey, , that's, that's out of line, , like, come on. 

I heard you the first time. You don't need to keep coming back and criticizing me. , and I would probably would have said something similar, , to a good friend, maybe a little bit softer because I was pretty upset at the time. But the interesting thing that ensued after I had that short message and I'm like, Hey, this is not cool.

And I know what you're doing. She must have got back to the client. Because the client I had wrote the client the day after I published the episode and I fixed it. By the way, I went in and I use garage band and I fixed the sound  and I said, thank you. And I, I'm looking forward to being on your show. And I never heard back from the client,  her client.

Yeah. Yeah. The person who had agreed to this interchange. And so I was like, well, it's pretty obvious that Rachel's gone and said bad crap about me to the client.  

And I challenged that one.  

You're, you're welcome to challenge it, but why it's been over a 

week and the client has not.  Absolutely. I mean, I get it.

Like in the, let me tell you, I mean.  I'm not here to say she did or didn't do it.  And I noticed that that's where your mind naturally went. And what do we know about where our minds go when we're telling ourselves story? So I got to ask, , just the typical question of, , do you know that with 100 percent certainty that she went and talked about you?

I don't. Yeah. But I'm probably 80 percent certain. Okay. 

Because I know who she is based on her past history. Right. Based on what you did with me and Leslie and sharing screenshots and creating this drama. I'm  yes, I'm not 100 percent sure, but I'm probably 80, 85 percent sure she 

probably did. Yeah, true. And you're certain about this because the clients, this person, I don't know, like we can give her a name, Leah.

, is this who you chatted with? . So Leah, this is the person you chatted with. You guys were supposed to do a mutual exchange, but now she's done talking to you. And you think she's done talking to you because you think Rachel talked about you to her.

Is that right?  And I get it. And I get it. I absolutely get it that you know who Rachel is. I'm not even saying you're necessarily wrong. And also it is where your mind naturally jumped to. Yeah. So as we go there, if just because this happens to be a pattern,  and that's the only reason we're going to dive into this a little bit.

It's not to dismiss you or invalidate anything. No, no, no. I understand. I understand. Yeah. It's to say, well what do you think? If you were to follow that story, if you were to go all the way down that road, if you don't mind being vulnerable with me right now, what do you think she said?  I 

think Rachel said to to Leah,  oh, you know, I gave criticism.

She didn't take it very well. She got really mad at me and she blocked me. And so  now, you know, I don't know, you know, the quality was pretty bad if I were you, I wouldn't do the interchange with her now. Mm-Hmm.  , 

that's what I.  So if I were you, I wouldn't do the exchange with her now because she got really mad at me and she blocked me.

And so  why do you think that would stop Leah  then from coming and talking to you?  Because 

Leah   wants to believe Rachel because that's the person she's hired. That's the person that she's had more of a relationship with and wants to continue to have a relationship with Leah.

I'm not so important. I'm just somebody who's in the middle of it all. It's easy to  take the side of Rachel, , because she's got a working relationship with her. So it would make more sense  to go. Well, Rachel must be telling the truth. Maybe it's better. I don't continue to have any, you know, interaction  with Sarah. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. So with that, I'm going to ask you a really tough question here. I know you've done work within PDS, which is the personal development school. I know that we have worked on our wounds and our emotions and all of this kind of stuff. So let me ask you, have you found the wound? I am unimportant to come up in your life often. 

I 

think it's more like 

I will be rejected.  Okay. So you have a bit of a rejection sensitivity going on there. Okay. Yeah, I will be 

rejected or I will be excluded. Yeah. 

Okay. And why, so this is great. So one of the things that I go a little bit further beyond PDS and I'm a little bit more into Gabor Maté's work with this is the difference between a limited belief and an actual core wound.

So just to give you a bit of a structure on that, a core wound will be about ourselves,  for example, like I am blonde,  , it's not a wound, but , it's who I am. . I will be rejected. You can't be rejected,   , because it's a belief. And that's fine.

This is good.  But what about being rejected hurts? So I just want to dig with you a little bit deeper if you're okay with this right now.  What 

about being rejected hurts? Because I think for me, it's more about being misunderstood. Like feeling that as a child, you know, everybody always thought I was weird.

And, you know, I was labeled as a witch because I have, you know, I'm, I have had psychic abilities and empathic abilities for Since I was my earliest memory, four years old.  So I think I felt in my life that I've been misunderstood and that's hard because it's like, why, why is it hard for people to see who I truly am and understand me and why do people feel they need to try to take advantage of me and use me like what Rachel did?

 That feels really dishonoring to me and feels very disrespectful. Yeah. 

Yeah. I mean, you're not wrong. First off and it's complete injustice that like anyone would think that your abilities that you have, like you said, as young as you are, I mean, those abilities are amazing. And I think that's fantastic and wonderful about yourself.

In fact, I love to hear that. And I love to hear how you say it almost about yourself now with a kindness and a compassion where you're like,, I'm good at this and this is who I am and what I do. I love that. 

Yeah. I guess  , I feel like   sadly.   There, there are a lot of people out there, not all people, but there are a lot of people out there that are very inauthentic.

And I finally realized that about Rachel, that her so called friendship with me was really all about,  there was an agenda. There was an agenda there. I guess I got really mad because I felt really used , and I feel  I don't want to be treated that way. , I don't deserve to be treated that way.

 When I was younger, I think I allowed people to take advantage of me and I allowed people to disrespect me.  And now that I'm older, I guess I feel like I have very little tolerance 

for it now. Yeah. That's actually such a, that's such an FA thing to do as well. Again, FA, right. Feel fearful, avoid it.

When we come to like anxiously attached people, the interesting part about how they attach to their core wounds is that they will take them on and they will take them on as like this deep seated belief, ? , and this is what it is.  , so I'm also, well, I'm a healing FA myself. 

And so part of that with us is actually this innate, almost projection of our wounds off onto other people and off of ourselves. And yet that intense reaction that you have to block her is still showing me a little bit of how deep that wound is still inside of you. Because let me just like throw this out there for you.

For sake of example, you're, again, you're not wrong. What Rachel did is completely crappy,  not cool, very inauthentic. And she absolutely had an agenda and it does not fit with what you wanted. . And also imagine if you could have just kind of said that to her and been like, Hey, you know what?

This actually relationship isn't really, really working out for me right now. So I'm going to go ahead and just like take a break from this and like, just, you know, thanks so much though. And it's been great to have you in my life for what it was, but I'm just kind of done. I would have liked 

to have been able to do that, but I was in a place of 

reaction.

Obviously  I was like, Ooh, you know, , that would have been a more securely attached reaction. And I, I do feel like I'm not far away from that. Because I am, , communicating my boundaries more, I'm speaking up more and I, I really wish if I were to go back in time of that, that when she initially asked me to do this favor, and she didn't say it was a favor.

I really wish that I had got on a call with her and said,  I just want to clarify. , but I'm getting I have the sense that this is a client of yours and that you really kind of promised her that you would help her get more publicity. And  so you reached out to me because you're hoping that I can help you out.

Is that the case? I really wish that I had. I love to have that conversation because obviously it was already bothering me in the beginning when I got that message, because I could read between the lines, I could see what was going on and I wish I'd called her on it right away. That's what I 

could have done differently.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in fact, like you just completely like got there before I did, which I love for you because that was going to be part of my next set of questions, which is , if we could go back in time and do this as we do, , what would you do differently? What red flags, ? Red flags are not just for romantic relationships, 

flags are for any relationship right now, even here. Sitting with us, the way that we did this and the way that we talked, if there was ever a red flag that came up for you before you came onto this podcast, I would want you to start honoring those red flags in the future and start going towards them and asking those clarifying questions.

And so let me ask you, why do you think or what do you think it was that stopped you from asking that question? Is there any fear holding you back with asking these types of questions?  I don't 

know what stopped me to be honest. I think  that's a good question. I don't know. Okay. It wasn't, certainly wasn't fear of rejection because I feel like actually in many ways I've overcome that.

I think maybe,  I don't know.  Was it fear of conflict? No, I don't think I have a fear of conflict. I don't know. I have to think 

about that one. . Really think on that question.

Because the thing that I find Is it's like we can kind of go back in time and we can see the things that we could have should have would have done.  And yet the wounding is within why we didn't do it.  So, you do have the wound of, I would say, I'd still, I still hear that. I'm not important, mainly because those are the words that came out of your mouth when you were at a time of, , emotional chargedness as you were telling the story.

So I would look into that wound a little bit, see if it might help you to reprogram it a little bit. Like you said, I think mis understood absolutely whenever we have a fear that two people are talking about us behind our back. It is a common occurrence that it's, I'm misunderstood then there is  just a link and I am excluded.

I will be rejected. Those are all make a lot of sense. ? But if you can kind of get into, I'm misunderstood, I'm important. So you can really see to yourself how important you are, how understood you are, how you're safe if you are misunderstood. Because like, I would even dig to, I'm misunderstood a bit more if you can, because again, yeah. 

It's one of those things, it's someone else doing it, ? They're misunderstanding you. So when you say, like, I feel misunderstood what you're actually saying, what we are all actually saying is you are misunderstanding me,  so it's still a projection feeling. So what is it? So the things that I'd love to dig even deeper into is what does it matter if you're misunderstood?

Like, why is that bothering us?.  And then we get deeper and deeper and deeper. 

Have you thought about what about feeling rejected or what about feeling misunderstood is scary? I guess 

that the, I guess it goes to the core wound of like, maybe I'm not enough.  I'm not enough. It's not good enough.  Yeah. It's more like, I'm not enough.  Like who I am. What I have to offer is not enough, you know? 

Oh, I actually think that's really beautiful. Can we actually dig into that a little bit more? Cause something's coming up for me for you. Cause I think that's like really powerful to hear just what I have to offer is not enough and what I have to offer is not enough. You're misunderstanding me. You're rejecting me because well, I mean, it 

feels very in line with her criticism like, well, what you've done instead of thank you for what you did.

I really appreciate it. And by the way, is there any possibility you could maybe fix the sound? I noticed it was quite loud or,  but instead it's kind of like. Oh, this is wrong. And this is wrong. And this is wrong. And I'm just like, where's the thank you.  And that really isn't what I've done for you enough.

It's not obviously, it's not enough. Right? So then it goes back to the reflection of maybe I'm not enough. Like, she has this expectation of. What I'm going to do for her.  And I didn't, I didn't meet her expectation, which means it looks bad for her with her 

client. Yeah. No, I mean, that's all true.  Yeah. Yeah. 

That's not my problem.  Whatever deal you made with your client, I don't have any. And I, am I getting, are you offering me money? Why are you being so critical? I'm not getting any money from this situation.  How dare you? Yeah. So critical of me and have this agenda and not be transparent with me and basically tell me that what you've done is not enough. 

And you can see where, , just even that wording that you use, like, how dare you, do you feel how charged that is? . . Yeah. And again, I think you're completely correct. I think that the way that she handled the situation and reacted and the way that she didn't, , validate you or thank you or give you any sort of significance in terms of like you did this really great thing.

I absolutely see that that was not cool on her side. So two things about that. One, I think it really shows you what's really important to you, which I love for you now, like moving forward, the type of authentic, yeah. People that you're really looking for, but then to we are seeing where the wounding is coming up because the only thing and this is just for you, the only thing I would love to see for you because we mentioned this was a pattern earlier is if someone is criticizing you.

 Instead of the how dare you coming up, which is part of your wounding, all of those past transgressions, all of those people that used you and took advantage of you, and all of these places, it's inherently you are enough, which is why you're pissed off by this.   This is the F.

A. This is the F. A. lifestyle of a true boot. It's very confusing. We actually have a deep understanding of the fact that like, Hell yeah, we're enough. Like, we are great. And yet, it still elicits this emotional response inside of us. Because it's also like, well, why don't you think this about me? Because it's still there deep.

It's really weird.  Yeah, I see. I hear you. But with that, if you could feel enough, So right now, right?  We know the classic, you're a purple monster, like, scenario, right? Like, you're an orange bush right now, Sarah. Sarah, you're an orange bush. I'm criticizing you. I'm calling you. Actually, am I? I'm just calling you an orange bush.

Am I criticizing you?  No, I mean, I don't care.  First question.  And why don't you care? 

It's like not connected to me. It's not significant for me. It's just an analogy for me or 

something. Yeah. And so if someone says like, your voice is crackly, right? Like, or your sound was bad. It's because you're doing someone a favor, and so I've heard this a couple times now, which is , I'm doing her a favor, I'm doing a lot for her, then there's an expectation that what you're doing should be enough  because you're doing them kind of a favor. So what I would encourage here is that I think there's a twofold thing going on.

There's the reprogramming, of course, and I'm sure you've done plenty of reprogramming in your life. You've been in the school and doing the programs and you know how to tell yourself you're enough. All of that stuff. The actionable side of that is also going to be in listening to those red flags and hearing if somebody wants something from you, 

are you okay if it's not perfect? And really checking in with yourself first, ?  And I think that's where, because then if she does come to you, it's like, it's really crackly. The sound was terrible. What were you thinking? All of this stuff. You can just kind of sit back and be like,   Is she calling me an orange bush?

Like what, what is her problem right now? Like, this doesn't feel good., could you not talk to me that way? , but do you see how now my entire body is just more , this is a you problem, not a me problem.  I love that. 

This is a you problem.  

Yeah. And then you get to cut her out after that. You get to have learned that lesson and kind of been like.

Oh, okay. That didn't feel good. I don't like that. Yeah, I'm not gonna do something for her again. Now that's the boundary, ? That's where we go from setting up a massive wall of a block. And we get to keep those networkings, and we get to keep all of those kind of, , things going on. I like to consider boundaries like bridges.  . The bridges that we have control of the gate.  Yeah. So like you set up a bridge with Rachel now , but you put the gate up pretty high. But you're like, okay, but maybe in a couple months and maybe you need something because it's always okay to, I mean, let's be clear. We're all just basically using each other to some extent in life.

. I like to say utilizing because I think it sounds better, but it's just . We're all getting our needs met. I'm talking to you. I'm getting my contribution need met. Right. I'm probably getting myself on a bed, but I think it's the difference, 

though, like for me, transparency is so important. Like, don't be like sneaky about it, you , and then get upset because it's not what you wanted it to be, you know, but I feel like when people are really honest with me, like, Hey, you know, can you do me a favor?

, I really appreciate that. You know, I appreciate transparency. And  I think, , Then it's like, yeah, we all have agendas, but it's like, just be honest about it. , just say, Hey, I need your help. Like I did with my friend.  Last night we went to have dinner and I'm like, Hey, would you be able to help me out with moving?

, I'm not going to go , well, Hey, can you come over for lunch? And then, , spring it up.  Hey, by the way, I'm moving, , do you mind, , I mean, that's, I guess that's what I'm saying about what's the difference between being transparent and not. And, and I guess, I think it goes back to deception, , if I were to go deep, like I've had a lot of people lie to me. 

And my past  intimate partner, my, my husband,  there was a lot of deception, a lot of lies and lack of transparency, gaslighting, all of that. And so I think it's sensitized me  to people doing that kind of thing. And so I probably overreacted.  

I hate the word overreacted because I feel like as a general society, we get told you're overreacting like it's a bad thing, but ,  if if the situation is here and your reaction is up here, I guess, technically, that's an overreaction and also my favorite thing about this, though, is it's showing you where to still do some work because you're not wrong.

Transparency is really important. And also, it's important for FAs because we feel OK, we feel safer as FAs. If people are transparent with us, because if people are transparent with us, then we get to make those choices and decisions ahead of time. Okay. . Of course, it makes so much sense. And also, we can't control what other people do. 

So how? Right. And this is like the, like, really, like, hard, frustrating part. For example, just so we don't, like, knock on FAs all the time, anxiously attached people really need connection. In their lives, and so they need other people to connect to them in a very specific and certain way, and they have high expectations on their partners for this reason, because if their partners act in a certain way, they, they am anxiously attached person stay safe.

All of it is just an external projection of trying to keep us safe. So what I would love to encourage for us and to kind of figure out after this session, and you can , , look into this some more yourself is people are not going to be transparent with you. . It's just the thing. It's going to happen.

So for example, this is a beautiful example. I love how you were using the moving thing and you're like, you need help moving. So you invite your friend over. He said, Hey, I really need help moving. Can you come help me move? I'll buy you pizza. So let's turn around the other way. So your friend says, Hey,

can you, you want to come over and have pizza? I'm going to buy you pizza. Yes. That sounds great. You show up and she's like, great. Can you put, move that box down to the car? Now, what do you do?  What's your next step? Yeah.  

Yeah, that's a good question. I think it depends on the person too. I might make a joke of it.

If it's a good friend and say, hey, I thought it was coming over for pizza. What is this? You're having me move boxes or something. I might make a joke.  If it's somebody I don't know, well, and it's only 1 box, you know, I probably wouldn't say anything, but if they're like, oh, I need to move these 10 boxes with me. 

I don't know. It's very situational. Like if I would say.  I kind of thought we had a plan to have pizza. I didn't realize we were going to be moving. I probably would 

say something like that. Yeah. So something I want you to catch on there. And if you check in later, your  action, your decision on how to, what to say in that moment changed depending on the other person and depended on the situation.

So what I would love to encourage you is to almost have like a bog standard, especially while you're trying to break a pattern. It's not about the other person. You showed up wanting to eat pizza with your friend. You don't want to move that box. It doesn't matter who it is. And that regards, you're like, Oh, Hey, no, I, I don't want to move the box.

Thanks so much though. Oh, okay. So the goal here would be to get you into a place where it doesn't matter what the other, cause there's still, I sense a level of   external.

Protection that is happening to you, which is like, I need the external world to act a certain way or to be a certain way in order for me to stay safe. And I want to encourage you in this moment to really get to a place where if you show up someplace and someone goes against  .

What you thought was happening because this is this has happened to you first off and again, it's, it's an injustice that had happened to you., we shouldn't have to be in these situations where we have a simple friendship like a Rachel coming in and having all this happen. But it's because of I'm sure it happened in your childhood, 

I'm sure it happened in your teens. It just keeps happening to us.  So let's get you to a place Where  someone shows up this way and then you get to just be like, no thanks,    in like a peaceful way, , literally not even to leave and like slam a door, even to get up and leave and be like, this sucks or how dare they literally.

To sit down on their living room couch with a piece of pizza and be like, no, I'm good. Thanks. So, but thank you for the pizza. This is lovely.  Like, can you imagine 

that?  Yes, I could imagine that. I can imagine. 

Yeah. So what does that feel like for you? , and I know that seems, like a silly scenario and things like that, of course.

So it's a good, 

it's a good example. I mean, it's just about, I think it's really goes back to not being a people pleaser and, and having  clear boundaries, which I have been working on. Yeah.  And really just being true to myself. If I'm true to myself,  then there's no reason to get it upset with anybody else.

I that's exactly it. You know, my favorite quote is I'll probably botch it, but it's always my favorite quote is the bird doesn't fear the branch breaking because she trusts in her own wings. Oh, that's beautiful. I know. It's like the one quote that just got me through all of my like hardships in life over the last like three years as well.

Like it just was like, I realized I have focused so much time on waiting for that branch to break that I'm exhausted. In fact, , I will fall when the branch breaks because I'm hovering above it for so long, afraid that it's constantly going to break, whereas I'm like, wait a second, we have wings, you have wings, Sarah, ?

, you're awesome at this. , I can totally and absolutely tell just in the way that you're super self aware and you have all of this, , knowledge inside of you  so,  as we finish up here.  Is there anyone else in your life right now  where you feel a red flag coming up and you think you could be setting a tiny boundary with them?

Cause these are just tiny boundaries,  sitting down and eating the pizza pizza on your friend's couch when they invited you over. Honestly, that's just a boundary. Say, no, I'm not going to take that box down.  But , oh, but I have time on Tuesday to help you move if you would like.  We can set those kind of boundaries.

I think the people 

that I did have red flags with are not in my life 

anymore. Okay.  

No, I feel like the quality of my, my friendships are much better now than they used to be. , because when I was really heavy leaning FA, I had a lot more pressure. 

It's just this one piece that I'm, I'm still working on. So I appreciate your taking me through it and, , and getting a different  perspective on things. Anybody else? Red flags? There was, okay. There was one person. Okay. And I gave this person a lot of chances and he kept messaging me  again, trying to form this kind of triangle between me, his ex girlfriend, who's my good friend. 

This person has alcohol and drug abuse issues,  and he kept messaging me and I would  respond very briefly. And I did decide in the end for my well being, and not out of reaction  that I needed to block him because he, is trying to get me involved in things that are, I don't want to be involved in.  So I, chose in a calm place  to block him because he, he just isn't the kind of person that can honor people's boundaries at all, nor can he honor his ex girlfriend and that's a different feeling behind blocking him versus the other person I was in reaction to. 

That's what I was going to ask you. If you could sit in that feeling, if you could really feel the difference and you could start to work on that, even almost thematically in your body and be like, here's that, how that felt. This came from almost a regulated, very secure place of blocking him because I knew that there was no talking to him versus over here.

And again,  what she brought to your life in this situation is just another chance for some exposure work, ?  It's like, do you have like a,  table in your house and you swear you stub your toe on it every single time you walk past it.

And it takes like five times. And then you're finally like, I'm going to move that freaking table. Okay. Maybe I'm just incredibly spatially unaware, I don't know what it is. But it takes me sometimes like five times of stubbing my toe to realize this table is not in a good place. It's like, move 

the table.

I have a, I have a a, the piece of the floor that is raised by the, by the oven that I keep running into. And I can't move that because it's the floor, but it's like, I'd be more aware and not keep stubbing my foot on this. So I get the analogy, you know, be more aware, make different choice, focus on where you're walking.

Yeah. And, and. We get to almost be excited about that is what I wanted to get you out of place just before we leave here is because we get to almost be excited that she came into your life now if we can really see that and be like, you know what? Thank you, Rachel. Thank you for showing me that I still have a little bit of work I need to do on my people pleasing.

And I need to notice my red flags a little bit beforehand, and I'm going to work on, , not moving that box when somebody wants me to move that box. If someone asks me for a favor, I'm going to check in with myself first and be like, and if they just, they came at you. And they seemed great and they asked you for a favor and everything, there was no red flags and everything went well.

And then they still ghosted you or something and it's not about you. Right. They did use you.  Yeah, it happens. It just every once in a while, the branch it is going to break. Right. It just, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

I mean, the thing is, is like. Whether this other woman, Leah. Is goes to me or not, it's not like those things used to be very significant for me.

I used to make myself wrong or feel really bad or  all about it. Think about it. Worry about it. Now. It's kind of like. If that's what it is, it's okay. Like, I'm, I'm actually okay with that  because. No, obviously it wasn't meant to be .  

So Sarah, I just, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and everything. How are you feeling right now? ?  Since being able to get this out and talk, do you have an idea of what you would like to work on after this?

And do you feel like you've kind of regulated your nervous system a bit at all? Yeah, 

I feel, yeah, I feel much clearer and I feel like moving forward. I have a better sort of tools or ideas about how I can navigate through this kind of situation. So 

thank you for that. Great. Thank you so much. 

And I think this is really lovely. And again, I, it's such an honor. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Thank you. 

I really loved this coaching call with Sarah and I was really glad that we got to dive deeper into what it means to be a coach. to be rejected and have boundaries. And I love that I got to bring up this concept of the orange bush, ? This is something that I got from Gabor Mate.  And the real idea here is no one can tell you anything that you don't already believe about yourself.

So if someone is saying, you're not good enough, That means you believe it deep down. Because if I call you an orange bush, or a green pencil, or a squiggly monster, you're going to look at me like I'm weird because you obviously know you're not that. And it's the same thing. It's, it's no different than if you were five foot one and I looked at you and I said, wow, you're tall. 

See, you don't believe that about yourself because you know you're short. And I say that as like a five foot three person. I'm quite short.  It's these beliefs inside of us that is really what is driving these situations. So what I hope you took away from the episode today is how to identify the drama triangle that To see which one of the roles you're in, as well as understanding that the things that people say about us are only impactful if we already believe those about ourselves, if you have a friendship situation that you have going on in your life or any other kind of relationship issues, and you want to jump on the podcast with me.

And get some coaching. I would love to have you on the podcast here. It's an amazing opportunity to get some free coaching as well as helping. All of our listeners out there, it's a win, win, win. And that's why I love doing this podcast. If you would like to get in touch with me, reach out to me at my email.

It's in the show notes or join our free Facebook group. It's filled with women like you that are struggling in their relationships. They're struggling on how to communicate, how to set boundaries and things like this, like the drama triangle. They're trying to just figure out and sort their relationships out in their life so they can live happy and fulfilling lives.

If that sounds like something you're interested in, please join our free Facebook group until next time, take care. 

As we wrap up today's conversation, always remember that healing is a journey, not a destination, and it is an honor to be a part of your healing journey. If you want to dig deeper into the topics we covered today, Be sure to head over to our show notes where you can find all of the valuable information mentioned in today's episode right there, and please remember to rate, review, and subscribe.

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