Football has been used by both politicians as well as fans to advance their own interests. How have fascist and right-wing political leaders and regimes exploited football to promote themselves? And how have fans tried to fight right wing authoritarianism through football? In this episode co-hosts Francesco and Guy talk to Chris Lee, author of The Defiant: A History of Football Against Fascism and host of website and podcast Outside Write. Chris discusses the relationship between the beautiful game and political ideologies before, during and after the Second World War while also looking at the space football has provided to express opposition towards right-wing regimes across Europe and South America.