Can football be more inclusive and embrace groups that have traditionally been left out from the game? In our latest episode, Guy and Francesco learn what some football clubs and fan groups are doing in the UK and US. They talk to Sarah Keig and JulieAnn Thomas of Fulham Lillies, a women's supporters group in southwest London that aims to raise the profile and voices of female fans at the club and help bring attention for women's participation in football more generally and at Fulham in particular. They then talk to Corentine "Coco" Claisse about his community club, New York International FC, and the efforts they've made to transcend national identities among the players and their efforts to tackle food poverty in the city.
The Fulham Lillies' report on making Premier League games more inclusive for families which JulieAnn refers to in the show can be downloaded here.
Can football be more inclusive and embrace groups that have traditionally been left out from the game? In our latest episode, Guy and Francesco learn what some football clubs and fan groups are doing in the UK and US. They talk to Sarah Keig and JulieAnn Thomas of Fulham Lillies, a women's supporters group in southwest London that aims to raise the profile and voices of female fans at the club and help bring attention for women's participation in football more generally and at Fulham in particular. They then talk to Corentine "Coco" Claisse about his community club, New York International FC, and the efforts they've made to transcend national identities among the players and their efforts to tackle food poverty in the city.
The Fulham Lillies' report on making Premier League games more inclusive for families which JulieAnn refers to in the show can be downloaded here.
Boosting Inclusivity in Football: Insights from Fulham Lillies and New York International FC
Guy Burton 00:11
Hello and welcome to the Football Podcast, where football meets politics. I'm one of your co -hosts, Guy Burton, and I'm joined by my other co -host, Francesco Belcastro. Francesco, how are you doing?
Francesco Belcastro 00:20
I'm fine, Guy. How are you?
Guy Burton 00:22
I'm doing really well, thanks. Do you know what we're talking about this week?
Francesco Belcastro 00:26
I know we've got two guests tonight, today rather than one, so that's exciting.
Guy Burton 00:31
Yeah, we're going to be talking to two of them. Yes, exactly. We're going to be talking about football and inclusivity and we're going to be looking at it from a couple of different dimensions. So we have joining us both a president of a football club, but a quite new football club also operating in a quite difficult or rather relatively new environment for football, New York City: New York City International. Also joining joining us is going to be Fulham Lillies, the supporters group that supports that west London club.
Guy Burton 01:01
We're going to be joined by the chair, Sarah Keig, and also JulieAnn Thomas, a member of the group.
Francesco Belcastro 01:08
Yeah, it's fantastic because both the New York boys and the London ladies do some fantastic community work. So I'm looking forward to chatting to them about this.
Guy Burton 01:16
So joining us down the line is both JulieAnn Thomas and Sarah Keig, the chair of Fulham Lilies. So, Sarah and JulieAnn, welcome to the show.
JulieAnn Thomas 01:29
Thank you so much for having us.
Sarah Keig 01:30
Yeah, it's a great pleasure to be here, thank you.
Guy Burton 01:32
Before we get into the questions, one quick question we had was about your involvement with the club, you know, how long you've been, you know, a fan of the Fulham and what, you know, what brought you into it.
Guy Burton 01:43
So Sarah, if I could ask you first.
Sarah Keig 01:46
Yeah so I have been supporting Fulham for, this is my 46th season, I was very fortunate that my granddad was a lifelong Fulham supporter so when I was very little he would take me along to Craven Cottage.
Sarah Keig 02:02
I think it was so that I wouldn't annoy my mum and grandma on a saturday afternoon when they were doing their shopping more than anything! But I absolutely fell in love with it and yeah, so I've been sort of going home and away and so passionate about Fulham and the club itself.
Guy Burton 02:19
Well, that's great. But Juliann, you've come from further afield, haven't you?
JulieAnn Thomas 02:23
I have indeed. I am an American, as you can tell by my accent. And I grew up loving soccer, as it was called over there. I'll switch to football from here on out. But I grew up watching football and loving it.
JulieAnn Thomas 02:43
I should have been a football fan, specifically a fan of Fulham for my entire life. I grew up with a crush on Brian McBride, who was the United States men's national team captain. And then he also was a star at Fulham.
JulieAnn Thomas 02:59
So Fulham should have been it. About three years ago, we moved over to the United Kingdom, to London for me to study anthropology. And football became my fun thing to do. And we went to a Fulham match, the first Fulham match.
JulieAnn Thomas 03:16
Fulham was my first match in the UK. And I fell in love, and it's been Fulham ever since.
Guy Burton 03:23
Well, wonderful. So could you tell us a little bit about your, the group, the Fulham Lilies, what it does? I mean, going to matches is only part of it. So, you know, what's the bigger picture that Fulham Lilies is involved in?
JulieAnn Thomas 03:34
Um, personally, for me, going to matches is a big part of it. Um, as a woman, um, attending matches can be quite intimidating. Um, especially if you're on your own, um, we have four kids, so sometimes my husband and I can't go to the same matches.
JulieAnn Thomas 03:52
One of us takes care of the kids and one of us gets to go to the match and it can be quite intimidating walking through an entire park of groups of men chanting songs, possibly inebriated, um, it can be, it can be very intimidating.
JulieAnn Thomas 04:08
Um, and so I think meetups are before matches are actually really a big part of what we do, um, it increases the visibility and it provides a community for women to come into, um, and they know that they have people there with them in the stadium that are going to be watching out for them that care for their wellbeing and that kind of thing.
JulieAnn Thomas 04:32
Um, we started kind of doing meetups and we have had such a great, um, response from that girls have said that I used to go to full of matches with my boyfriend and he stopped going to full or we broke up.
JulieAnn Thomas 04:47
I got full him in the breakup. Um, and she wants, I know, good girl, right? Um, so, um, but it was really intimidating for her to go to these matches alone. And so we met with her, she came to one of our meetups and she's been going up and she's joined our WhatsApp group and it's been a wonderful thing.
JulieAnn Thomas 05:08
Similarly, we've had women, um, contact us whose husbands do shift work. So they can't go to evening matches. And again, those are really intimidating walking through a dark park all by yourself, just to have someone to meet up there and to expect you and to kind of look out for you.
JulieAnn Thomas 05:23
So I think those kinds of things are, um, really important to us. Um, but we also do so many other things. Um, we do block, um, block sets of tickets for away matches so that again, I went to one of my first, um, away matches with the Lilies.
JulieAnn Thomas 05:43
And again, my husband was doing the childcare. It was my mother's day presence. Um, and I had a group of people that I could automatically plug into and who were there, I think football is about community and about celebrating those moments together and to be able to have that, um, for me, even as a newcomer or for a young girl who is used to going with her dad to have a community of women to be able to talk to people and to talk football about, I think that's invaluable.
JulieAnn Thomas 06:13
Um, so yes, we do encourage, um, women and young girls to attend football. Um, we, um, we have, we bought a set of, um, season tickets. So we have a pair of tickets and we alternate between giving them to a local charity, um, often female oriented, but also sometimes a refugee community or some network like that.
JulieAnn Thomas 06:40
And then we also, so we do that one week and then the next week we'll, um, donate them to, or we'll give them out to other lilies members who might not have the opportunity to attend matches. Um, we promote and, um, encourage the development of the women's game.
JulieAnn Thomas 06:59
Um, Fulham hasn't always been great in promoting its women's team. Ironically enough, we were the first professional team in England, professional women's team, um, but the funding dried up for a while.
JulieAnn Thomas 07:11
And so we're starting again from the bottom of the pyramid and working our way up. Um, so we provide them with a lot of, um, what do you say, Sarah?
Sarah Keig 07:22
We provide them with a lot of support, but also with social media coverage. They're a tier seven team, so they don't necessarily get the coverage that higher teams do. And they're really grateful for our support, so we'll advertise when the matches are taking place, where they are.
Sarah Keig 07:39
We've written a guide to Motspur Park, which is where the matches are held, so that people know what to expect, you know, what facilities are there, is there car parking, is there food and drink available, you know, is it standing, is it seating, that sort of thing, so that people know when they get there what to experience.
Francesco Belcastro 08:03
I think this kind of information is so important to the football fun experience, isn't it? It's not the first thing you would think of, but it actually makes a difference.
Guy Burton 08:10
Francesco?
Francesco Belcastro 08:11
Building on what you were saying about the tickets. So when I read a bit about your group and I mean, clearly it's sort of the Lillies about female supporters and allies, but your vision of football goes a bit beyond that, beyond gender only. It's about inclusiveness in a broader sense.
Francesco Belcastro 08:28
So can you tell us a bit more about sort of what kind of football and football culture you want to contribute building, really?
Sarah Keig 08:35
Yeah, when when I started going to football in late 70s and 80s, it was very much I was entering a male domain. So, you know, the culture in the 70s and 80s, obviously, if you look back, the you know, the racism, the homophobia, the sexism, it was it was rife through society at that time, you know, if you go back and watch even television programmes at that time.
Sarah Keig 09:01
So when I was going to football during that period, I felt very much I'm in a male area. So I need to adjust accordingly. You know, I can't complain about the songs and the attitudes and everything, because I was inviting myself into this male orientated area.
Sarah Keig 09:18
But through organisations such as kick it out, and the work that the FSA has done -the Football Supporters Association - through their fans with diversity, we've seen a real shift in both society and in football.
Sarah Keig 09:35
So it is now that football is for all. But there are still very few people, there are still a few people who see it as a, you know, it's it's for men only. And, you know, why do we need to sort of make adjustments for women for disabled supporters, for people from the LGBTQ community?
Sarah Keig 09:58
And so that's what the Lillies want to do is we want football for all. And whilst we are obviously very female focused, we do recognise the need for them to be for everybody. It doesn't matter what your race, your gender, your sexual orientation is, that you should feel happy, comfortable going to a football match.
Sarah Keig 10:20
And there should be facilities which are- that which accommodate that, which allow you to attend football matches. So, you know, whether it's a dad wanting to take a young baby to football, or a young child, he should be able to access baby changing facilities, toilets, the number of times a dad has come up to me and said, Can you take my daughter to the toilet?
Sarah Keig 10:46
You know, and you just think in this day and age, it shouldn't be like that, because it's very much, you know, there are men's and women's toilets, and there aren't enough disabled toilets to allow people to sort of go with their daughter into that sort of environment.
Sarah Keig 11:02
So, and we're conscious, Fulham is the only team in the Premier League that doesn't currently have a LGBTQ plus supporters group. And we're working with Pride in football, and with Jamie, who works for Fulham and runs Fulham for All, to see, you know, why.
Sarah Keig 11:26
Because statistically, Fulham will have supporters who fall into that community. So why is it that they're not coming forward? Is it because they don't feel that they can? Is it because they've had previous bad experiences?
Sarah Keig 11:43
So we really want to reach out to those people and to sort of help them as well. And if you look at the demographic of Fulham supporters, you know, we're a South West London club, and we're not that diverse.
Sarah Keig 11:58
It's a very white, male orientated supporters group. So again, we want to reach out to local communities to sort of say, is there something is there a barrier that you don't feel comfortable attending a football match?
Guy Burton 12:14
Can you tell us tell us a little bit about the way that the the club has you know reacted or responded to, to the group? Um, you know... And also because you've said there's other communities that are sort of growing wanting to become... to develop around the club. You know, how receptive has the club been to that? And what do you see as kind of your, you know, the sort of the immediate challenges that you guys faced and and maybe others that are sort of a little bit further down the path; the sort of medium to long -term challenges?
JulieAnn Thomas 12:42
Um, I'll start first with how the club has responded to us. Um, they have been incredibly supportive, um, of us. They, we are an officially recognized supporters group, um, by the club. Um, and all of the contact that we have had with them has been extremely responsive and very helpful.
JulieAnn Thomas 13:01
Um, for example, one of the things that I'm most proud about the Lillies doing is we created a report about under taking children under the age of five to football matches. Um, and this was actually a pretty broad report.
JulieAnn Thomas 13:15
I think you guys have had access to it. Um, and so we outlined what every club in the Premier League, their policies are, whether or not you can bring a child under five to a match, um, how much tickets cost and what facilities are available,
JulieAnn Thomas 13:33
um, to some extent. Um, so we created this report. We said why people want to bring children to matches, um, the risks involved and then ways to mitigate those risks. And then also our recommendations.
JulieAnn Thomas 13:47
Um, and we are currently developing, um, kind of like a charter for clubs to sign on to, to say, yes, we acknowledge that bringing children to football matches, um, is something that people want to do, and this is our current policy on it and we want to be a family friendly club.
JulieAnn Thomas 14:06
Um, and our Fulham have responded so positively to that. They say, what are the barriers that we have? How can we make this more family friendly? Um, so we've had great response by the club on all of our different initiatives.
JulieAnn Thomas 14:19
Um, that we've presented them with, um, International Women's Day, um, events and so on. So we're extremely grateful for how our club has been responsive to us in this way.
Sarah Keig 14:32
Yeah, so I think short term and something that will always be ongoing is trying to get people to understand why there are female supporters groups, some of the backlash that we've had is that they see different supporters groups as divisive within film supporters.
Sarah Keig 14:54
So it's just really we're saying no, we're not trying to separate everybody out. In fact, it's the complete opposite. We're trying to make it so that everybody's got a level ground, and that we can all support our team equally.
Sarah Keig 15:06
And, you know, without fear of sort of our safety and for disabled supporters without fear of, you know, turning up and not being able to enter the ground and access it. So that's one of the sort of challenges that we know will always be ongoing is just trying to justify why we feel that these groups are are needed.
Sarah Keig 15:28
And then long term, it's just there is in society at the moment since lockdown, we've seen a huge increase in anti social behavior. And there are we sort of were having a conversation the other day, and obviously there's everybody was talking about the Andrew Tate effect.
Sarah Keig 15:50
So what sort of it sort of upsets us is that we're the sort of the sexism and the misogyny that we're seeing is actually coming from teenagers, boys and boys in the young 20s, who we sort of think you brought up in a different generation.
Sarah Keig 16:12
You should know better than this, you should be more understanding. So it's sort of speaking to them and trying to make them understand, you know, how we feel and how what they say and what they do, the effect that it can have on other people.
Sarah Keig 16:32
And it's something that that Fulham does, they sort of do more restorative system rather than just sort of straight banning people, they sort of try and educate them. And that's very much what what we as the Lililes have always said that we, we do get a lot of trolling on social media, we expected it.
Sarah Keig 16:52
And we made a very conscious decision that if that happens, then we would look at it. And if there was an opportunity for us to educate, then we would educate. And sometimes it has worked really well and people have been very apologetic and sort of said, Oh, didn't realize.
Sarah Keig 17:10
And then other times it's, you know, whatever we say or do, you're not going to change everybody's minds and you know we absolutely recognize that.
Guy Burton 17:18
When you say educate, I mean you mean sort of responding to them on social media.
Sarah Keig 17:22
Yeah, I mean, so we sort of had some examples over the weekend where people were literally, you know, sort of saying, we don't need you, you know, you're being divisive, you're trying to split up the supporters, just come along and support your team, that's all you need to do.
Sarah Keig 17:39
And we sort of said, well, it's not as easy as that. And one of the things that we mentioned was about the meetups, because, you know, as we sort of said about not only the community, but there's a safety aspect for women, and, you know, a white male who attends football with his white male friends came back and said, there's no safety issues at Fulham.
Sarah Keig 18:02
I've never seen anything. And so we then went back with sort of examples and said, well, yeah, but it does happen, we've experienced it. And also, it isn't just Fulham supporters, when we're walking to and from the ground, we're mixing with away supporters.
Sarah Keig 18:19
And, you know, teams across the country are very different in the way their supporters are. So it was very much educating him, and then also saying the other things that we lobbied the club for a women's fit merchandise, which might seem like a little thing.
Sarah Keig 18:39
But for years and years, we've been told it's unisex, it's unisex, it's not, it's a man's fit. But now we lobbied the club this season, our second and third kits have gone a women's kit. Sales have gone through the roof and women have fed back and gone, this is amazing, find me.
Sarah Keig 18:56
I feel like I can wear my team's colors because it fits me. A simple little thing like that. The toilet facilities as well, you know, having free sanitary products in the toilets, something a man would not be aware of.
Sarah Keig 19:12
But for us, it was a very important thing that we're involved in. So those are just sort of little things that men wouldn't be aware of. And we don't really want to advertise it because it's just, we're aware of it, let's get it changed.
Francesco Belcastro 19:29
This work is so important. Can I, can I just ask you one thing? So if, if anyone wants to get in touch with you, either because they're based in London and they want to, you know, join you or because they are based at other clubs and they want to replicate the successful things that you're doing.
Francesco Belcastro 19:43
What's the best way? Is it through your website? What's the easiest way?
Sarah Keig 19:48
Yeah, our website it's nice and easy it's fulhamlilies.com but we're also on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook as Fulham Lillies.
Guy Burton 19:58
Thank you so much. And so thank you again, Sarah and JulieAnn for taking the time to talk to us.
Francesco Belcastro 20:03
And good luck with your work. Your very important work.
Francesco Belcastro 20:04
And good luck with Fulham for the rest of the season as well.
JulieAnn Thomas 20:08
So glad to be here.
Sarah Keig 20:08
Thank you.
Guy Burton 20:09
Well, that was great. So now having looked at it from the supporters angle in the UK, now we want to look at it from the position of the club itself, a community club, in this case, New York International Football Club.
Guy Burton 20:23
And we're going to be joined by Corentine Claisse, or Coco, a French national who's found himself in New York. And he's going to talk to us about New York International FC. New York International is a competitive grassroots community football club, which is based in the heart of New York City and was established in 2019 and competes in the Cosmopolitan Soccer League, currently in the Second Division.
Guy Burton 20:46
They have two men's teams, a first and a reserve team. And the Cosmopolitan Soccer League is a regional soccer league that consists of semi pro and amateur teams based in and around New York City. It was established in 1923 and consists of more than 100 clubs and four divisions.
Guy Burton 21:03
And the team is currently sort of ranking up at the top. So one to watch. Welcome to the show, Coco. Thanks for joining us.
Corentine "Coco" Claisse 21:11
Thanks, Guy and Francesco, for having me.
Guy Burton 21:12
Now, our pleasure, really. So before we start, I mentioned that you are French. And so what brought you to New York in the first place?
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 21:20
And I'm going to give you the Frenchest answer possible. Love brought me to the US! So I met my - who is now my wife and then my girlfriend at the time - and my wife and she told me either you come to the US or it's over and two weeks after I was on the plane for New York City and never left!
Guy Burton 21:37
Oh, wow. And tell us, do you still have attachments to the old country? Do you have a football club back there?
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 21:43
Yeah, yeah. So my whole family is from the north of France. So I'm a diehard RC Lens fan, which people don't know could be considered the Sunderland of France.
Francesco Belcastro 21:56
Wow. It's an interesting comparison.
Guy Burton 21:59
Yeah. Do you find it easy to follow games their games while you're in New York?
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 22:04
Yeah, it's actually nice to have the games from like 7am to like 3pm my time. So like this is just like, I can watch it during the day. So I try to watch as much as possible. Now with the kids, it's harder, but I do my best.
Guy Burton 22:19
Okay, excellent. Well, that's great. So listen, talk to us about - as much as we love to talk about Lens, let's actually talk about the New York International Football Club. So it's not your regular grassroots community club, is it?
Guy Burton 22:30
So could you tell us a little bit about the story of the club? What makes it different from the others that are operating in New York and in the Cosmopolitan League?
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 22:39
Yeah, of course, I think, so New York International, we were founded by, I want to say, frustrated Europeans, playing in New York. So the founders are English, Irish and Polish. I joined soon after, but when we started in 2019, the idea was to bring this European flair that we know and love from football club, really being around, you know, in Europe, clubs are around the city or town, and really trying to bring this energy back in the US, where it's more about pay to play.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 23:18
There's tons of leagues going on, seven a side, nine a side. And it's really like, yeah, you just pay the plan. And that's about it. And if you're not in college, there's nothing going on. So our desire to bring this back really aligned with the Cosmopolitan Soccer League, which you mentioned is one of the if not the oldest league in the US.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 23:44
And they have the promotion, relegation system that is quite unique in the US, you know, like they love their payoff style, type of thing and like close, close leagues. So I think it align with that.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 23:58
And in terms of like, why we want it different, it's we wanted to make it competitive, and competitive for everyone. As I mentioned, that money can often be an issue. So we put together like we try to keep the fees as low as possible, be really flexible on that, but also offering grants to players who cannot necessarily afford to play, but I still have the talent to play in a competitive team like ours.
Francesco Belcastro 24:32
Obviously, what got us interested in your club, it's not so much the sport aspect, although we are football fans, but the sort of political and social dimension that is associated with the club. Now, we have seen the club is focused on social initiatives, for example, fighting against food poverty.
Francesco Belcastro 24:56
Can you tell us a bit about the ethos of the club and what kind of campaigns have been involved with? And are they related to the football activities, if they are?
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 25:06
Of course, so I think the social aspect of the club came really organically with one of the members of our board, Nick Alexandrocos, who joined two seasons ago, where, you know, we wanted to be more than just a football club and we are all, a lot of us, I would say, are like immigrants, expats, depending on how you see it, and we're fortunate.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 25:30
We're lucky to be able to enjoy playing football on the weekend and during the week. But there was kind of like a missing sense of giving back to people who are not as fortunate. So with the idea of being a community -led club in a city that can be as impersonal as New York City, because there's so many people, it was important for us to find a cause to be attached to.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 25:58
And that's where the fight against food poverty came on the brink of the pandemic. You know, like what happened with the partners we work with called EVLovesNYC, they started their program during the pandemic.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 26:17
It was just a couple of meals distributed during like, when people just didn't have access to food at the time. And it turned into something much bigger, a much bigger initiative with thousands and thousands of meals distributed every day.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 26:31
So at our level, it's about two things. It's one, giving a hand whenever we can. So on the weekend, on Sundays, like going to the food kitchen and helping delivering food, but also like raising money, because I think a meal is about $2, like on average.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 26:54
So like any money we raise just like provides food for hundreds of people in New York City. And I'm happy to touch on like why there's so many people in the streets of New York right now. And it's really like, it's a good thing about football in politics, because it's really about the political landscape of the US.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 27:16
And in the past two or three years, there have been like a war ongoing between the different governors in the US, where two things happen. One, New York State as a shelter in place law, that New York State is obligated to provide shelter to anyone who is in the state of New York.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 27:38
So... And on the flip side of that, you have governors of Texas and Florida who have been known to be against this politic, who are like in criticizing what's happening at the border, sending migrants by busload.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 27:55
And like, by plane to New York City, because they're like: well, we don't want to deal with this people deal with it. And that's the situation that is happening, like on a weekly basis. There are more and more people coming to the city who have no place to stay and nowhere to be fed.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 28:13
So that's the need.
Guy Burton 28:15
Can I ask a little bit about the actual practicalities of tackling food poverty? What kind of specific activities does the club do to not only just raise awareness, but also to help combat it?
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 28:30
Yeah. Yeah. So it's really like the the two the two initiatives. One is helping hands. So prepare meals and distribute. So anybody at the club can join any time. And we make sure like we we can keep that with the team to be more than just a football team.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 28:48
And like some initiatives like fundraising, I think it's really important. Money is the name of the game in many places. And so like our partners at EVLovesNYC are completely donation based. And you know, they need a kitchen, they need like items for the pantry and things like that.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 29:09
So that's what we do on these two fronts. We're quite, I would say, a progressive club. Like we have a political stance and like we are like, we want to make sure that you know, the game of football remains a game and like nothing else should happen on the field.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 29:30
So like, anytime there's there's something happening around like racism, more than anything along those lines, we are... in... we are here and we'll raise our voice with the little megaphone that we have on social...
Francesco Belcastro 29:48
That's quite rare in an American context, right, because sport clubs typically tend to be a bit more, should I say, neutral, or so it's not something that apolitical, yeah? It's not something that perhaps in Europe, we take it for granted, but in an American context, it's not necessarily the same.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 30:06
That's correct. And I think because we're not professionals, that is, that is something we can do. And we're also like, as I mentioned earlier, like we are not like an American, a typical American club, and our team is about our club is about 60 people, pretty much 40 different nationalities, we're from everywhere.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 30:31
And I think this is this melting pot of people and nationalities that creates that, you know, that desire to, to be vocal in times where I do think the US needs it.
Francesco Belcastro 30:44
Yeah, I want to ask you one thing on perhaps the relationship with the city. Because obviously, I mean, you're based in the center of New York City and that kind of, first of all, I guess, very much defines the way that the club works.
Francesco Belcastro 30:58
But also, this is a city that is not historically associated with football, despite having sort of large migrant communities that come from football, not countries, Italy, Mexico, and so on and so forth.
Francesco Belcastro 31:10
What has been the relationship with these traditional communities? Have you I mean, obviously, it was funded by mostly European players and people. So what's what's this dimension of community relations like?
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 31:27
Yeah, that's a good question. Because, yeah, New York City is so big, there's a community for everything and for everyone. So we could touch everyone, but also no one at the same time, which is always interesting.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 31:41
And in New York, you know, being a soccer club, as you mentioned, we not only compete with [unclear], we not only compete with other sports, we compete with any type of entertainment that exists on earth.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 31:55
And so New York City is not a football friendly place, or soccer friendly place. I don't even know which one I should use. It's not a football friendly place, like even the pro club, that is the NYCFC
Guy Burton 32:14
Mm -hmm.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 32:15
It does not even have a stadium. They don't... Like they play on a baseball pitch. To tell you the kind of like the relationship to football that the city has. I do believe that it is growing with the upcoming World Cup.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 32:29
And it's bringing awareness as to the game of football. But as you said, I think it's driven by non American communities. You mentioned I think like the Spanish speaking communities are growing. And I don't remember the percentage, but I think close to 30% if not more of the country speaks Spanish as a first language.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 32:57
And this is like bringing people will eventually have to adapt to that shift in in population and football will be just a consequence of that shift in terms of entertainment. And so to go back to your question around communities.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 33:19
Funny enough, the league we're in, it's really community first. Like there is New York Irish, New York Ukrainians, New York Albanians... You can name any community, you're probably going to find a team that is associated with - uh, New York Yemen. We decided to take the other side and be like, let's go for like, let's bring everyone together.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 33:45
And then we build a community around that. And we build a community not around, like where you were born, but more where you live. And that's why like, the social activism or social impact we're trying to have, it's like around food poverty, because it touches anyone.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 34:06
And it's not limited to one country based community.
Francesco Belcastro 34:13
It's a very powerful message, I think, in a context where it's very much, you know, a community, every community has got its club to have an international team. It's something fascinating. Guy, I'm sorry. You have a burning question.
Guy Burton 34:27
Yes, well, I suppose one of my questions is, where are you based? I mean, if anyone's interested in knowing more about New York International Football Club, I mean, you you're based online, I know that.
Guy Burton 34:40
But, you know, where but also... where would you where would you be playing? I mean, because you also flagged up the fact that sort of the professional team doesn't even have its own football pitch.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 34:50
Yeah, so finding a home pitch is definitely a challenge. Where we play, it's at Randall's Island, which is for people who don't know New York City at all, it's about northeast of Manhattan and north of Queens.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 35:05
So definitely on the northern side. And it's an island where you have like, dozens of like, soccer field and like sports fields. And where actually like, it's, it's interesting, you bring that up, because this is Randall's Island is contentious at the moment.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 35:23
Because, as I mentioned, the city does not like he's receiving hundreds and hundreds of migrants, they had to build like temporary shelter on Randall's Island. So like some fields have been taking over with like tents for this migrants, because the city has to house them or shelter them in some ways.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 35:43
And so like, even now when we play, like we have like, almost like on the, in a background, we have the city, but we also have a reminder that some people are here and stuck here in this tent when a day like in January can be below freezing.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 36:06
So I think it's, it's a good reminder of how lucky we are and why we should do something about it.
Francesco Belcastro 36:16
Corentine: thank you very much. It's been absolutely fascinating and we want to wish you good luck for the rest of the season. You got a few months to go and doing very well. I mean, I was going to say, if you need an experienced right full back.
Francesco Belcastro 36:29
You got my email address, but I know that, you know, at 40 I might be too experienced!
Guy Burton 36:37
Can I just add my own question that I'm always curious about because Francesco likes to tease me about the fact that I have ambitions to be a football club owner. And since you were currently president of one, what advice would you give me?
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 36:55
Know that you will give more than you'll ever get! But it's, it's such a rewarding experience. I was lucky to take on the presidency after like, Nick Platt, one of the founders who built the right foundations.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 37:13
But yeah, you'll, you'll give more than you get and surround yourself with the right people.
Guy Burton 37:19
Okay, brilliant. Well, that's very helpful.
Francesco Belcastro 37:21
I promise you that Guy is not after your job. He wants to buy Aldershot Town in England! So it's okay. Corentine, thank you very much for your time and we'll be in touch to know how the season goes.
Corentine “Coco” Claisse 37:32
Thank you guys.
Guy Burton 37:33
So, Francesco, that was fantastic, listening to both of them. So my take from listening to them was very much the differences that they face in terms of, in the case of the women from Fulham Lillies, the challenges that they confront in terms of being an established club and being sort of a group that has hitherto been overlooked and marginalized in their efforts to try and make themselves more visible and more involved.
Guy Burton 38:07
But then on the other hand, you've got the work that Corentine and his colleagues are trying to do in New York. And it's particularly challenging because in their case, their club is quite new, but also football is not really as big and as visible as it is back in Europe.
Francesco Belcastro 38:49
Yeah, but what I think brings them together is that they are both working towards making football for everyone, accessible for everyone. And there is a sort of common theme, which is one of space, isn't there? So I think it's very interesting. I learned a lot. Although they are two big cities where they operate in a very different context from a football point of view, from a political point of view. So the challenges are also different, but it's been really interesting. I really enjoyed this.
Guy Burton 38:54
And it's also very striking, I mean, also what sort of also links them as well is they're very different experiences post pandemic, right? So, you know, what JulieAnn was telling us about, you know, sort of many of the younger men who are - oh, sorry, it was Sarah - talking about some of many of the younger men who are coming to the games, you know, who are becoming much more conservative, you know, compared to, you know, previous generations.
Guy Burton 39:17
There is, and if you actually look at some of the polling, it's quite interesting to see that, you know, there does seem to be a bit of a divide between both men and women - young men and women in the UK - with some of these younger men becoming quite misogynistic.
Guy Burton 39:32
And so, you know, groups like Fulham Lillies are quite important to try and sort of, you know, counter that, I suppose. And that's very much something that maybe has developed as a result of the pandemic.
Guy Burton 39:43
And then listening to Coco talking about, you know, just the sheer number of people needing shelter that's grown especially, you know, in the period since the pandemic. So, some really interesting things.
Francesco Belcastro 39:56
Yes, they both to adapt and react to some recent challenges that are emerging. That's interesting.
Guy Burton 40:01
Yeah. I mean, I suppose this is something we probably want to look at in future episodes, looking at other angles in which we can sort of look at inclusivity. I know that we're talking about it, and so that's something that listeners maybe should be aware of. That what we've just done in this particular episode is an opportunity to sort of raise awareness about some of the ways that this is being done, but we are going to be doing, I think, more on this in the future, aren't we?
Francesco Belcastro 40:28
Yeah, and there is something that we should be doing now, isn't there?
Guy Burton 40:31
Mmmm, yeah. Just so you know, we're always interested in ideas that you guys might have for future episodes. So if you do have ideas for topics, ideas for guests, then do get in touch with us. We're available at all the obvious social media platforms that we're on, which includes Twitter or X, Instagram, Facebook, Blue Sky, and... um, Francesco, what are we doing next week?
Francesco Belcastro 40:55
You guys and you ladies as well!
Guy Burton 40:57
Oh my bad. We're all about inclusivity!
Guy Burton 41:03
So, Francesco, what are we...
Francesco Belcastro 41:05
We also have to remind listeners as well to please help us by liking, rating, sharing, and the podcast, wherever they're getting it from, whether it's Spotify, Apple, or any of the main apps. We are all on all of them.
Francesco Belcastro 41:19
That's very important. And I think also we need to remind them we're going to be here. And they know it by now is going to be every Monday, but Monday morning, when they wake up with their coffee, they're going to find a fresh new episode of FootPol.
Francesco Belcastro 41:32
And we are looking at a completely different topic because we like, you know, to keep our listeners entertained. And it's completely different topic. It's Salma Mousa from UCLA, talking about the politics of Mo Salah and the "Salah effect".
Guy Burton 41:44
Well, that sounds great. Anyway, wonderful. So I'll see you again then next week then, Francesco. Take care.
Francesco Belcastro 41:50
Bye Guy. Bye bye.
Guy Burton 41:51
Okay, bye.