Can football change lives? The Homeless World Cup ft. Mel Young

Can football change lives? In this episode co-hosts Francesco and Guy talk to Mel Young, social entrepreneur and founder of the Homeless World Cup.  

The HWC is more than a big yearly tournament bringing together men and women's teams from all over the world. It is a global network of 70 grassroots organisations that help select and prepare the players for the competition. The mission of the HWC is 'to use football to support and inspire people who are homeless to change their own lives; and to change perceptions and attitudes towards people who are experiencing homelessness'. 

Transcript

Can football change lives? The Homeless World Cup ft. Mel Young

Guy Burton 
Hello and welcome to the football podcast. I'm your co -host Guy Burton and this is my other co -host Francesco Belcastro. 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
Hello Guy, how are you? 
 
 

Guy Burton 
I'm really well, thanks. And it's great to see you again, especially after we had a really interesting talk last week in our first episode about the women's game and we touched upon the women's World Cup as well, didn't we? 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
We did and listeners should really go and check it out if they've not done it yet. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
And this week we're going to be talking about another kind of World Cup. This is a World Cup for homeless people, the Homeless World Cup, and it is going to be a fantastic episode. Joining us this week is Mel Young. 

Mel is a social entrepreneur who is co -founder and president of the Homeless World Cup and also founder of the Big Issue in Scotland. He founded the Homeless World Cup back in around 2003 and is also chairman of Sports Scotland, the national agency for sport in Scotland, and perhaps most importantly for some people, he's a Hibs fan. 

Thank you for joining us, Mel. 
 
 

Mel Young 
No, thank you very much for inviting me. Good to meet you. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
Now, we've been mentioning that this is about the Homeless World Cup, so I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about what the Homeless World Cup is and how it all got started. 
 
 

Mel Young 
Well, the Homeless World Cup simply uses football as a method of involving homeless people in the game and helping change their lives. So simply, we're an international organisation based in Edinburgh. 

We have one partner per country and 72 countries in the world. And that partner country works with the homeless people on the street. Simply by going into the street where they are with the ball and getting to kick a ball around. 

We use football because it's a very simple tool, very easy to play and anybody can do it. You can be rubbish at it or wonderful at it and you can play in the same team. So we use football as a way of involving people who are very marginalised, low in self -esteem and no confidence. 

And then through work with the partners, build that self -esteem and confidence up. And then once a year, we have an annual tournament called the homeless world cup, which is somewhere in the world. The cities bid to host it. 

The players get to represent their country. And we have about 14 men's teams take part, 16 women. And a week -long tournament, we don't play 11 -side. It's four -side, street soccer, very fast. Some of the teams are great, some of them are terrible, but unlike other world cups, if you lose, you don't go home you stay in the competition so that by the end of the week, you find your own level and everybody is playing for a position. So we use football in a way which is competitive, but inclusive. And we use it because it's a language that people understand in the world, no matter where they are, and what their position is. 

And our object is to create change. So for us, it's about impact. We started this in 2003, our first event. We came up with this idea, myself and a guy called Harry Schmidt from Austria, over a beer. We were drinking a beer in South Africa in 2001. We were at a small conference for the International Network of Street Papers, which was for street papers. And we said that there was a great conference and inspiring and that we were learning from each other in different countries, but there was no homeless people there and how could we involve them. We both had a love of football, but more importantly, probably understood the power it had. That was the beginning of a creative discussion where I said Scotland would be Austria and we said Austria would be Scotland, so we shook hands on this. And then we drank some more beer and by the end of the evening, we had invented the Homeless World Cup. So that's where it all began. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
And so tell me, I mean, you know, who has been better, Scotland or Austria? Or I mean, if you think about the record of the of those teams that have done well, or, you know, in the world in the World Cup over the years, because every year, right? 
 
 

Mel Young 
Yes, every year, we do it every year, apart from the, unfortunately, interrupted because of COVID. But yeah, we do it every year. It's, it's a good, well, first of all, I would say that, you know, everybody's a winner at the Homeless World Cup. Some people are not so good at winning the sixth trophy, whatever. But on the main trophy at the moment, it's, it's the South American, Latin American teams that are dominating. So in the women's competition in Mexicans, just win it all the time. And, you know, the finals, both finals this year were, were, and the women's game it was Mexico against Chile, which Mexico won. And then the men, it was Chile against Mexico, which Chile won. That part of the world is dominating. 

But, but at the beginning, it wasn't necessarily the case. Anybody could win it. Afghanistan have won it. Austria have won it one. Scotland have won it twice. Ukraine have won it. So it's not necessarily the usual suspects, although, you know, as I say, the South Americans are dominating at the moment. But, you know, that was, that can change. But it was a lovely kind of, because Harold and I had had this, you know, dream to create this event. And at the very first event that we met in the qualifying group, Scotland met in the Austrian qualifying group, and Scotland won. So there's a picture of us standing together and I'm kind of cheering. And, but then way football works is it went into a knockout stage and Scotland got knocked out in qualify. But, but Austria got through to the final and won. So, you know, we both said we were winners at the end. So Austria won the first ever Homeless World Cup in Austria, but Scotland actually beat them in the qualifying group in the tournament. So, so we kind of said it was a draw.
 
 

Guy Burton 
The way it starts is with going out onto the street with a football and getting people involved. But could you take us through a through a little bit more of the logistics? So it's with a particular charity that goes out and does that. And then how are the people selected to play? 
 
 

Mel Young 
Yeah, I mean, we work with one partner for a country deliberately because we didn't want to have you working with lots and lots and lots. We thought it'd be more effective working with one and that's proved to be the case. And then that one partner will work with other charities. So normally it's a charity that's involved directly with football or sports. And very simply what they do is take a ball into the street where homeless people are. So they might be in the street or they might be in postals or they might be in shelters or wherever and say, hey, do you want to play? And actually most people kind of say, yeah, why not? And why we play the small sided games on is we can create pictures immediately where the homeless people are. 

You know, we don't have to go and find big 11-a-side pitches and have to travel for a long way. So we're taking the ball to where the people are and then we just simply get them involved. And then the whole focus is on the football. 

So they created football games and little leagues and so on and so forth. But actually what we're trying to do is build people's self -esteem so they're kind of moving out so that our partner will have other initiatives depending on what the issue is in that particular area or town or country. It might be drugs, it might be alcohol, it might be housing, employment or whatever and work with the people to get out in the situation that they're in. But the football is always the centre of it. A big incentive for some of the players is to get on the team to go to represent their country. 

And countries do it in different ways which we are quite relaxed with. So some, for example, you get selected to play for your city. Okay. And then they have city competitions where they play against each other and the winning city becomes the country. Okay. Some do it that way. Some have eight regions and they select one from each region of the country and then they become the team, they work with a coach. Others do it in different ways. Players are usually selected though that they're necessarily the best footballers. It's the ones who've actually been turning up and following the pathways out of their situation who are selected. So you might have a really good brilliant player, for example, but he doesn't turn up to half the training sessions and he won't go to the rehab sessions or whatever. That person probably won't be selected. But the person who turns up regularly is making an effort, maybe isn't quite so good at the game, will get selected. And so we're trying to build up a kind of a peer group leadership and this is the way you behave. This is how you'll get selected. And then the team comes, is selected to represent their country. They'll be usually sponsored by something, they get a sponsor. 

So there's 10 places. So there's eight on the team and a coach and a manager. And they can usually get the flights sponsored by getting a sponsor on the jersey. So 10 return flights to where we're holding the competition. And then from the moment they arrive until they leave, the host city's paying for everything. So the accommodation food is paid for. So in a sense, it's what the country's offering in terms of tackling homelessness, which is great. And so then it's amazing what happens. They then represent the country and people are standing applauding them as they arrive. 

And if you think about it, the homeless people that's not happened to them in the past, I mean, people are normally aggressive towards homeless people in the street, actually, unfortunately. And now people are cheering them and they sing the national anthem, they're representing their country, they're playing in the country strips normally. 

So it's a transformational aspect that's taking part in front of your eyes as it were. So that's the journey. And then afterwards, our partners will be looking at ways in which they're moving on completely. 

They're only allowed to come to our event once. It's the end of a process, if you like. So it's not like we've taken homeless people off the street the day before and put them in a team. They've been in programs and they're coming to the end of it and now they're moving on. But they still come back to play football and so on. Some of them move on completely, others stay and come and play football. And a lot of them, interestingly, have come back now as coaches, volunteering, or some even have now full -time jobs, working as coaches or coordinators or managers of the teams as we continue to grow. 

So that's... I mean, each country does things slightly differently and all of them are exciting, but in the main, that's the way it works. 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
You mentioned these aspects of crowds cheering and of people involvement. And one thing I was interested in is that it seems to me that as well as kind of providing an avenue for people to get involved with sport and as a formative power sport, the homeless work cap also challenges the view the society has of homeless people. 

You said there is often aggressive behavior against homeless people. Something we find more and more often is that they're ignored, they treat it as they don't exist. And it seems to me that the idea of giving agency to homeless people is central to your project. Is that the case? And could you tell us a bit more about that? 
 
 

Mel Young 
Yes, yes. That's a very good observation. I mean, our main focus is about the homeless people themselves, about changing their lives. And I always say to people, come along and watch our event, because it's really special. 

But if it wasn't about impact, we wouldn't do it. So it's all about the homeless people. But actually, it is about everybody who's coming to watch or getting involved. Because certainly, there are a few of homeless people who have completely changed. 

So there's a stereotypical view of homeless people that the picture of them sitting in the street begging. And that's it. And there are people who should be avoided at all costs, because they're dangerous or have ill health or whatever. 

And this is just complete nonsense. No homeless people I know want to be in that situation. Circumstances have conspired against them for whatever reason. And they're in a difficult situation. And their self -esteem has gone. 

And to get that back is difficult. So what happens is just through the football, it's a kind of magic. People turn up to watch. So if you were to say, it's England, again, Scotland in a game, which has happened, would you go and watch? Yeah, you probably would go along and watch. And then all of a sudden, you see it. It's homeless people playing. And in a sense, it doesn't matter. You forget because they're footballers. And I remember one in the very first event we had in Gratz, when a guy from Reuters was there, he said, you see, as soon as they kick the ball, you forget they're homeless. And I said, well, that's the point, actually. That is the point. So you get people now cheering the team and they're actually cheering homeless people. So what I kind of say in the first event, even, but something that is, we had lots of people turn up. The stands were absolutely jam -packed full. Some of our events have just been completely overflowing. The atmosphere has been incredible. And then everybody's cheering the team. And then afterwards, kids are running up and getting autographs from the homeless guys and so on and so forth. And I'm saying, the day before, they could have been sitting in the street and the same people, their mothers and fathers of these people wouldn't allow their children anywhere near these people, let alone going to talk them to get autographs. 

So there's a major change taking place just by all we're doing is creating a pitch, if you like, for them to play a game and changing the clothes they're wearing in. They're basically the same people they were the day before. So actually, this is quite profound because I always say, if you come to the Homeless World Cup, the next day, you'll never look at homeless people in the street again. You'll go, that could be a footballer. 

And so you're absolutely right in what you're saying in that we're able to create that change. And it's been quite significant. We've done surveys on it and people say, they'll never look at homeless people in the same way again. So it's very powerful. The media as well is another side of this because normally, homeless people as negatives, they're causing problems for tourists and they're upsetting everybody and get rid of them kind of thing. But actually, in our case with the media, we've never had a negative comment at all. It's all positive. And we've brought a lot of different media. They're telling a different story. And it's just the football. 

It's the power of the football that's doing that, not only with our homeless people, but with the audiences that are watching, be they spectators or the media. And you have to remember that people sometimes get surprised. It being the biggest attendance we had was in Mexico when we played there. We had 167,000 people came to watch over the week and people are astonished. I say, yeah, 167,000 people came to watch homeless people play football. And, um, everyone was screaming and shouting. 
 
 

Guy Burton
And can I ask about that? Because you were talking about the attendances have been rising over the various years. For people to actually go to watch the games, this is free for them to do that? Or is it, I mean, do you sort of recoup some of the, you know, the costs of staging it through ticket entry? How does it work? 
 
 

Mel Young 
No, it's always free. We try and play always in city centres where people are, so you can casually drop in if you like football and then take what tends to happen is the crowds are maybe smaller at the beginning than we can buy the end of the week, they're bulging because people are coming back and telling their friends and so on and it spreads. 

I think how few of us have been able to try and sell tickets for this from the outset, people didn't understand where it was, it would be quite difficult. Our finances are done through sponsorship and you know, same way, we've got host fees and so on and so forth for cities and same other sporting events do, but I think one of the principles we'll have is always make it free, unless it comes so well, internationally known, you know, so many people want to come then we might have tickets and costs which we'll use the money to further a cause. 

If you get a chance, watch it, of course. We've got quite large people watching online, there are quite a number of people watching online, so it's taking off around. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
You have a YouTube channel? Where do they watch it? 
 
 

Mel Young 
Yeah, yeah. We watch it on YouTube and we have live broadcasts going on when the event is taking place. What's quite interesting is that first of all the game, the game we've invented which is 4 on 4, so 4 on 4 off, you know, with rolling substitutes. It's seven minutes each way. It's very, very fast. I've seen one team that was winning by three goals, with 30 seconds to go and lost four goals. And, you know, because it's always about keeping the ball in play, you know, it's an offensive. 

So you get people on the edge of the seats yelling for a team event and not from that country. So the actual football games themselves can be very, very exciting, very high quality sometimes. And so you're getting something there where you're getting a really great product, great football product or sporting product. 

And at the same time, you can see the change that's taking place. And these two dynamics that come together, particularly with the wholeness people behave. I mean, they're fantastic ambassadors where they play the game and salute and crowd and so on. And the atmosphere is incredible and it's just magnetic. So that's why people keep coming back. 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
I've watched some of the tournament, I have to say, I've watched some of the matches online in Sacramento and I was impressed by the quality of the football. You said the format is very engaging. I was also impressed by how well behaved footballers were. I'd say professional footballers could learn a bit from these guys who just get on with the work and complaining about stuff. But it's a very fun format to watch. I would encourage people, if they can't be present, to check it out online. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
So what are you saying? So, hang on, so Francesco, you’re saying they don't surround the referee and complain about, you know. 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
First of all, there's only four of them. So even if they surround the referee, you know what I'm saying? In general, they don't. Is that correct, Mel? It's... 
 
 

Mel Young 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They don't. Well, first of all, we've been creating the format so that you, as I was saying earlier, the game moves very, very fast. So even if you, if you score a goal, okay, you won't see them really celebrating because the goalkeeper from the opposition can flip them all back into play really quickly. And within a second, the goals have been scored. So there's actually no time to moan to the referee if you lose your concentration for even a short space of time, you can lose a goal. But the other thing I think is that there's just huge respect amongst the players. 

I mean, obviously, you know, we have cards and so on, we have a referee, so we have to keep order. But it's played in a fantastic spirit. The teams want to win, of course. And it's a contact sport. There's a recognition amongst the players about where they've all come from. They've come from different countries, but they've come from the same situation, which is one of being excluded. And that's what unites them. They then respect each other through the game. And they play it in a fair way. So they don't like losing, but a couple of minutes after the end of the game, they're together. They shake hands, they're off the pitch. They're very, very friendly with one another. So to me, it's the way sport should be. 

I always kind of say, look, actually, the professional footballers should come and have a look at this. Because some of them go absolutely flying and tackle, just get up again. You know, they don't lie around, kind of moan, and they just get on with the game and play it in a fantastic spirit. And I also kind of say sometimes, you know, the United Nations, not only professional footballers should look at this, but the United Nations should look at it because it really is the way humanity should be. Everyone's together, representing a country, being together, unifying in a cause and being incredibly friendly with one another. That's the way things should be. 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
I was wondering, probably when this started, you were not expecting such an increase in terms of teams and numbers. It's been 20 years, quite exceptional. So how do you see the future of the Homeless World Cup? What next? I mean, it cannot grow more than this, can it? 
 
 

Mel Young 
Oh yeah, I think it can grow and we'll keep growing it, not for the sake of growing it, but as long as we make an impact. So that we will go wherever homeless people are and if it makes an impact, it makes a change that we will be there. So first of all, we'll look for new countries and new countries coming to us all the time. We'll be in countries which are not, you know, maybe just operating in one city at the moment in the country and persuade them and help them to develop and grow it across the whole country. 

The event, it got knocked sideways because of COVID. COVID obviously, you know, international event, it wasn't good for us, we're homeless people, very difficult. We had to cancel the event. But we're back on track now and, you know, we're hopefully going to announce soon where we're going to be for the next two, three years with the event and we'll have more countries involved, we'll have more women involved. And we'll expand the numbers involved in a way which makes practical sense. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
At the most recent Homeless World Cup in Sacramento, you launched the report about Cities Ending Homelessness with the Catalyst NGO. I wonder if you can say a little bit about that, how the World Cup will fit into that and how you see tackling the problem of homelessness. 
 
 

Mel Young 
Yeah, I mean, we came up with this kind of concept with Catalyst 2030, and we were looking at the cities where we've been and the impact that we've had and legacies and so on. 

One of the challenges I think that we're facing is about a system problem. Our organisation is successful. We get a lot of plaudits and so on, which is fabulous. And, you know, we know about the impact that we're making. But the challenge that we have is that as soon as we move one person on or somebody uses the football to move on, they're replaced by somebody else. 

It's like a never ending stream, which is getting worse. You know, we were in the US and a number of people on the West Coast that are on the street, a lot of them with serious mental health and mental problems, drug problems, is startling. 

And so for us, we will keep doing what we're doing, but we wanted to have a dynamic side to us, which was talking about, right, how do we stop people coming? How do we kind of change the system, which is making people homeless in the first place? 

So we want to engage with the mayors of the cities where we were engaging with governments, engaging with others about coming up with solutions. We launched a report there with Hope Solo, the American female US goalie, former goalie, and in it, really what we're seeing is here's a whole lot of situations that work. 

And can we replicate them? Can we grow them? Can we fund them? And, you know, if you're looking at housing first, for example, in terms of housing, this sport, you know, initially when we started, when we were talking about sport, people were going, gosh, sport ending homelessness. 

How does that work? So it doesn't necessarily seem to fit together, OK? But we've done that. So we want to bring not the usual suspects, if you like, or not people from the sector to the table and say, hey, what can you offer here that might help us create and aim to homelessness? Which is what we want to get to. Almost like we shouldn't exist. And we've become complacent, all of us in the world, by just accepting, well, it's homeless people there. Well, that's just a fact, isn't it? Whereas whereas I'm saying and we're saying no, no, no, actually, we shouldn't have a system where there's homelessness in the first place. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
Yes, and if you think about, I mean, in the case of the UK, during the recent pandemic, they were able to get homeless people off the streets, at least at the start of the pandemic. So it is possible to do it, right? 
 
 

Mel Young 
Yeah, yeah. I mean, exactly. I mean, that's exactly, I mean, obviously they were just finding houses and obviously they need further support and so on. So, but you're right, it's interesting where there's a will, there's a way. And what I find disappointing is that there's a lack of leadership in this area. And people want to kind of talk and do something else. To me, it's a kind of priority. And it's not been seen as a priority. 

So some cities in the world now you post pandemic, you've got major, major problems, which have been exacerbated by it. But you're right. All of a sudden there was a solution. And in some countries, the fact that there was this population that was moving around, if you like, people were became really worried about them because they're spreading they're spreading COVID. 

So we need to kind of almost capture them and put them in houses to stop them spreading it. So they found a solution. Okay. Right. And then afterwards, it just kind of back to where we were. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
What about for the cities themselves? I mean, do you see a shift in the way that these cities have dealt with homelessness after hosting the Homeless World Cup? 
 
 

Mel Young 
Yeah, yes. I do some for sure that we keep in touch with and the habit is a priority because as we talked about earlier, when you arrive there suddenly people are watching it and the media is watching it and it becomes an issue and people are talking about it and so there's been actually been some engagement absolutely. 

Some cities not so much, but we just have to go back there and kind of kind of remind people say look this is a solution here actually which just impact the people involved and as a message to the other countries that participate back in their own countries. 

So we need to do more and that's part of where we're coming with the city's ending homelessness going back to the cities which have hosted the event and talked to them about sharing solutions and understanding where their legacies are. 

So we're excited about that potential and you know some of the mayors' offices have been in touch and so on. So we look for a constructive discussion about how we end homelessness. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
Sport can be used more generally as a source of social inclusion. Do you see other sports that are a way in to dealing with the problem of homelessness? 
 
 

Mel Young 
I see sport as something that's a very positive and constructive issue anyway. I don't think governments understand its power. So it's a fantastic mechanism for inclusion and being that about people with disabilities, for example, people from small ethnic groups that feel excluded, etc. Maybe children, maybe older people. There's all sorts of ways sport can be used as a way of creating inclusion. Getting people, I mean the big issue, particularly in the UK, one of them is about obesity and lack of activity. 

So it's a no -brainer. You get people doing sport and having fun and it's good for them and there's plenty of evidence to suggest your mental health and mental wellbeing improves if you're active and involved in sport. 

I think though that governments kind of underestimate its power actually or the sport sector doesn't talk about it enough. If you were to resource the sport sector more, then I think you'd get much better results and certainly save the health service a lot of money in the future. 

I mean in terms of your question then about homelessness and football, I mean we use football because it's a simple game, it's a ball, it's a common language in the world but I think any sport could be used except it just becomes more practically difficult. So people have said to me, why don't you do homeless golf? And I'm going, well I actually think that would work but it wouldn't work anything like football but there's all sorts of practicalities about homeless golf and like when you put the golf clubs, when you put them, how do you get to the golf club? Actually how do you learn how to swing the golf club properly etc. So those sorts of barriers there that make it difficult whereas the football, I'm not knocking out golf or any other sport, you could do any other sport. Football is the one that's the simplest because you just need a ball, that's all you need and you can play it in the street, anywhere you can play it in the house. Some of our partners in Africa don't even have a ball, they get plastic bags, scrunched together, tied them together with a string and these things bounce and they use them. So football is the one for us which is simple, practical, global and expensive and that's why we're here. 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
Yeah, I wanted to just ask if people want to somehow get involved or help. The first thing would be to try and see when the next almost World Cup is going to be held. It's going to be announced on your website. So your website is a good starting point. And then what else? 
 
 

Mel Young 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna take people, please come to our website, if you're interested in finding out more or helping, and then please get in touch, we're always interested in volunteers. That's for sure. We have a, every year, when we go, we have this kind of international group of volunteers who come, it's just brilliant. They come every year, take holidays, join us. People have different skills. Some are journalists, photographers, marketing people, referees, coaches. We have physiotherapists. So we have this kind of grand team of international volunteers who come all the time. And I think my view is, it's sometimes when you hear the numbers of homeless people in the world, you just kind of shut down, you think it's nothing I can do about that. It's too much for my brain to come around. But my view always is, if we all do a little something, have a small it is, and if we all do it, that's how you change the world. So by just doing a little bit of volunteering, it can make a huge difference. 

So the first port of call to answer your question, would be to come to our website. We'll respond to your inquiries and follow up and there's tons of information there. And your website address it? www.homelessworldcup.org. So if you simply go on there and then there's a button for inquiries and why when press that and respond to it. 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
Mel, thank you very much. It's been a fantastic testimony of the power of football and sport in general as a social force. Guy, do you have any last question or...? 
 
 

Guy Burton 
No, this has been wonderful. It's been a great, enlightening look at how football can be used as a power of good in the world, especially given recent developments where we see governments, we see football being used for other purposes, other reasons. So this is a great counter to all of that. And we wish you the best, Mel, and also with the next World Cup, wherever that may be. But presumably you're going to be letting us know when and where. 
 
 

Mel Young 
Yes. I mean, first of all, thank you very much for talking to me. I enjoy talking to you. And yeah, you're right. It's sometimes we talk about the professional end of the football. And we all love it. You know, I watch it all the time and so on. And we love that. But actually, there's another dynamic to football, which can be very powerful, just the area we're talking about. So thank you for talking to me. Within the next couple of months, we'll be announcing where we're going to be next year. But we'd normally be ahead, but because of COVID, it's not to solve. But we will. We'll wait an exciting announcement coming up the next couple of months. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
We look forward to seeing whichever Latin American team takes the title again. 
 
 

Mel Young 
Everybody wants to beat them. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Mel. Much appreciated. 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
Thank you, Mel. Thank you very much. 
 
 

Mel Young 
Okay, thank you. Good speaking to you both. Thank you very much. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
Well that was fantastic wasn't it Francesco? So what have we got next week? 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
It was, it was, it was fantastic. Next week we've got another excellent episode. We've got Sukhdev Johal from Clapton Community Football Club. He's gonna come in and talk about, well, their work on the pitch, and most importantly, the work of the pitch. Clapton Community are a club based in East London. They do a lot of interesting stuff, so it's gonna be a very good episode, I think. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
And I think they've also got a very fancy jersey as well, don't they? 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
They have got a couple of them, one that I proudly own, and I might post on our Twitter page later on, and might brag about having that one. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
Fair enough. But before we go, anything else we need to say as well? 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
Well, we need to reminder our listeners to subscribe, like and share the podcast so we can... 
 
 

Guy Burton 
Don't forget to also review. 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
And review and review, excuse me, review so we can become more and more popular and climb the rankings of the podcast world. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
Yes, indeed. Indeed, last week we managed to break the top 50% of podcasts, apparently. So let's see if we can go for the top 25% this week. 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
Yeah, this week is gonna be top five. I feel it. I feel like we're getting there. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
Anyway, great. So let's speak again next week. Take care. 
 
 

Francesco Belcastro 
Bye. 
 
 

Guy Burton 
Bye.