#23: "Where is the Finish Line?" Courtney Baker, Endurance Athlete with Long Covid

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LongCovidMD@gmail.com


What happens when you go from running ultramarathons to having difficulty walking? Endurance runner Courtney Baker knows the answer too well. Courtney is an endurance athlete who has been navigating long COVID for three and a half years. In our conversation, she shares her experience before and after the pandemic, her ultimate diagnosis with long COVID, and the challenges she faces in managing her symptoms. She emphasizes the importance of finding a supportive community of people who understand what she's going through. Courtney also discusses the athlete mindset and how it can be both helpful and detrimental in approaching healing and recovery. She reflects on the importance of asking for help and finding balance while living with long COVID and shares her journey of learning to prioritize self-care and set boundaries. Courtney emphasizes the value of community and the support of loved ones in navigating the challenges of long COVID and encourages listeners to embrace acceptance and find joy in the midst of their struggles.

Reach Out To Courtney

Email: courtney90111@gmail.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/courtney.lynne.baker/

Long Covid Support for Endurance Athletes

https://www.facebook.com/groups/longcovidsupportforenduranceathletes

Transcript

Zeest Khan (00:00)
Hi, I'm Dr. Zeest Khan, the Long COVID MD. I'm a physician with long COVID and I've applied all of my medical expertise to my recovery. Luckily, it's working and I want to share what I've learned with you. On this podcast, I help you understand your body and understand the healthcare system so you can move your own health forward.

We've got a lot to talk about, but remember, nothing I say here replaces personalized medical advice from your healthcare team. Let's get started.

Zeest Khan (00:37)
Today is a really special episode. I got to speak with Courtney Baker, an endurance athlete from Los Angeles, California, who's been navigating long COVID for three and a half years. Courtney and I met through the podcast. She's a listener like you who emailed me and we've been getting to know each other ever since. Courtney's a remarkable person. She used to run races upwards of a hundred miles at a time.

currently she moderates a Facebook group for endurance athletes like her struggling with long COVID. The group has nearly 3000 members. When Courtney speaks, it is worth listening to her story just like yours is very important and she brings a level of wisdom and mental fortitude that I think we can all learn from.

In fact, I know we can. She gave us a couple of tips in the interview that I'm going to apply to my life today. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Courtney Baker.

Courtney Baker (01:45)
I slept really well last night. Like I... you know, like what a good night sleep does for you. Like I went to...

Zeest Khan (01:47)
good.

Courtney Baker (01:52)
bed at like 9 15, I think, which is kind of early for me, I try to be asleep by like 10 15 1030. But I just getting that extra hour and I like actually kind of slept through the night, which is also unusual. So I was like, it's just the difference when you wake up in the morning and you feel like, yeah, this is how I used to feel when I wake up in the morning. Like I actually had some rest.

I remember in the beginning, like the first year, like, I couldn't sleep at all. Like if I was just shaking, like all night long, it was whether it was like the adrenaline or what you know, whatever was going on. But I would just lay awake all night and try to like listen to meditations and

yoga nidra and like what I was just so now it's it's like I tell people now like yeah I wake up kind of at 233 and it usually takes me like an hour to fall back to sleep and they're like that's horrible I'm like no that's great compared to where I used to be like I can manage that

Zeest Khan (02:55)
Did you ever have trouble sleeping like after a big race or before a big race? Was there any ever a period of time where you struggled with sleep the way you are now?

Courtney Baker (03:04)
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know.

humans do, but yeah, it would be more situational, right? Like if you're excited about something or nervous about something and you can't sleep. But definitely like after big races, like my body would be so jacked up. Like, you know, I couldn't sleep. Like it's, there is a little bit of a similarity there of just like total depletion where your body just doesn't even know where like what's up and what's down or where to begin or how to heal.

Zeest Khan (03:12)
Yeah.

Courtney Baker (03:38)
So yeah, there's some similarity except that passes after a few days you get back to like catching up and getting back into like it's almost like

with long COVID, like your whole cycle of sleep and wake and hormones and everything just goes off the rails. Everything is just knocked off and that homeostasis, I talk about that a lot. I'm just looking for some homeostasis in everything, bring the balance back in. It's tricky.

Zeest Khan (04:14)
It's super tricky when we don't have, when our baseline is moving so much. hopefully, you know, it keeps moving in the right direction for you.

Courtney Baker (04:24)
Yeah, you too.

Zeest Khan (04:28)
it's twenty nineteen. You're minding your own business. What did your life look like before the pandemic started?

Courtney Baker (04:37)
I love that question.

I think I would have described myself as a very type A person, very much a go -getter in a lot of aspects of my life. Professionally, I was working full -time as a school administrator, kind of in a communications marketing role, and loved my job, put a lot into my job, and just as much as I put into my job, I put into my free

time and for me, really always loved athletic endeavors, specifically running. I did a lot of long distance running, training for ultra marathons. So evenings after work and weekends would look a lot like different types of training runs. also dabbled in triathlons a bit here and there. So swimming, biking, running. There was always, there was always a plan. was

executing, right? Like, okay, this is what my week looks like. I'm going to spend this much time at work. And then here's my training plan. And here's how many miles I'm going to run this day. And then the weekend, we're going to go here and go for a swim and then get on the bikes. And you know, it was, I was very good at like executing my life plan. And I loved it. Like I, you know, I really loved my life. I wasn't

you know, unhappy with it in any way. I pretty much thought like that was how it would look for the rest of my life and I would be perfectly happy with that.

Zeest Khan (06:19)
I have a friend who's an ultra runner. he's described these races that he's done that are upwards of a hundred miles over the span of a few days, sometimes up into altitudes, like up and down mountains. And he reminds me of...

Courtney Baker (06:34)
Yep.

Zeest Khan (06:39)
Hugh Jackman who like trained for Wolverine, the Wolverine movies, and he basically had to be in training for like 20 years because he always had to be in shape for this physical feat. are those the type of races and kind of the lifestyle that you had where you were just always active and always had a another race or another event to look forward to?

Courtney Baker (06:43)
Yeah, yes.

Yes, 100%. And I, you know, have run a couple hundred miles.

really enjoyed 50 mile races were kind of my sweet spot. But yeah, there you there's always something that you're training for. There's a goal, there's a finish line that you want to cross. And it does very much become a lifestyle. And you get, you know, very connected with other people who are also running and training and sharing that lifestyle. And we kind of would have this phrase like what is set on the trail stays on the trails, right? You just it's therapy. It's more

than just like exercise, it becomes really your therapy, your friend circle, your connections, what brings your life meaning and there's always, you know, these waypoints of having the race, right? Here's the race that I'm training for now. Like that's kind of the first thing you ask somebody like, what are you training for now? What's your next thing? And it's a really interesting way of breaking life into these like, little pockets of achievement, right? Like I know I'm going to have a race in June. And that's what I'm

working for and that's, you you put all your kind of eggs in that basket and you just want to cross that finish line and feel that sense of accomplishment and celebration.

Zeest Khan (08:26)
The way you describe it, the word sacred comes to mind. It seems like those long runs in you're doing it yourself, but you're also in nature and in community with other people who are involved in it. That must have been really special.

Courtney Baker (08:40)
Yes.

Yeah, I love that. think sacred is a great word for it. you know, spoiler alert, I got long COVID and I am not able to participate in those things that I love and that brought me joy and fulfillment and connection and community and a sense of, you know, sacredness. And that has been really difficult to manage and accept and

Zeest Khan (08:52)
Yeah.

Courtney Baker (09:13)
you know, kind of reconcile with who I am now and how I identify myself.

Zeest Khan (09:20)
Gosh, there's so much there. Can you tell us a little bit more about your ultimate diagnosis with long COVID? What happened and how did your body change?

Courtney Baker (09:33)
Yeah, sure. I'll try. I'll try to give you the high level of all of it. But basically, my my first COVID infection and the one that I think really caused the issues was in January of 2021. It was right before I was eligible to be vaccinated as an educator. I think they were just vaccinating medical professionals at the time and then rolled it out starting in like February and March for educators. So, you know, I knew I was like, just, you know,

hang on, I can hang on another month or two and not get COVID and then I'll have these vaccinations and we're all going to be fine, right? Like we all had hoped back then. But anyway, I was not lucky. I don't know how I got it. It wasn't obvious to me. But I did get it. I was sick. Back then we were quarantining for two weeks. So I actually really did need that two weeks to recover. It wasn't horrible. I was never afraid during it or thought like, gosh,

I, you know, I need to get some additional medical help, but it wasn't pleasant. I would say I had a mild overall case, but it wasn't a walk in the park. But I remember kind of coming up on that, like two weeks of quarantine and then thinking about going back to work. And I was very focused on being at work because we're trying to run a school during the pandemic, during lockdowns. I'm in California where we stayed in lockdown for a lot longer, I think, than a lot of

of states and specifically Los Angeles County. So we were slowly bringing kids back on campus, but there was a lot of social distancing going on. were testing, we were COVID testing kids every week. We're really running a health clinic, like in addition to a school. And I just was very much of the mindset, like I have to get back. I've left my coworkers for two weeks, kind of filling in for the duties that I normally would be doing. I, you know, after my two weeks, I think I

know some people talk about like, I didn't really get the long COVID symptoms for like two months, but for me, it was almost immediate. I had maybe two days of feeling pretty good and I cleaned the house because what else are you gonna do your first day of feeling better?

But the one thing that never really left was I still had a fever. Like I had the fever, not horrible, but like low hundreds for like the whole kind of two weeks. And then it didn't go away. And I remember reaching out to the safety director at work and saying like, hey, I feel better. My symptoms have resolved. I've done my two weeks, but like, I still have a fever. Can I come back to work? And we were kind of like, that's strange. But ultimately decided if I, you know, didn't appear that I was contagious any longer.

I should come back. And then I, so I went back to work and I just remember I worked carpool that morning, which essentially, you the cars, you have kids like you, the cars drive off, you bring the kids out and it's something I do almost every day or a lot of days. And I did that. And I remember going back up to the second floor of the building in my office and I just got like overcome with

feeling I've never had before and I just had to lie down like under my desk. I had no choice. That was like the first time I think I really felt like that overwhelming fatigue, which I kind of equate to most people listening to this will know exactly what I'm talking about. But if you don't, it's like trying to wade up a river like a really fast moving river with a current that is just so strong, like, and you're trying to run as fast as you you just can't move that pressure against

your body. And I knew like in that moment something was so wrong with me that had never been wrong with me before in that way. And that I think was the moment like I just knew something's this isn't normal. This is different from being sick with acute COVID and like something new is happening with me. And then it just took me like months to convince someone else of that. I think back then like

people, there were certainly people with long COVID back then. I know there are people from 2019 that were dealing with it in 2020. But I, you know, it wasn't like super common. So I remember like reaching out to doctors that I knew in my life being like, hey, I've been Googling, which like every doctor loves to hear, right? I've been Googling. But there's this thing, I think it's called long COVID, like could I possibly have this? And you'd like, no, I don't think you have it. Like you're so fit and you're strong and you're

they're normally so healthy, like no, just give it a few weeks, some, you know, maybe you just need to slow down a little bit.

So I'm okay, okay. And then it just like kept getting worse to the point, like I couldn't go back to work. I couldn't walk up the stairs. I couldn't walk down the stairs. I all I could really do I remember just, I would lay on the couch with headphones on and like listen to meditations, like all day long, it was all that I could handle. And then eventually I did start the whole process of getting some help. And I, I

saw a primary care physician at the time, who like she you know, bless her like she didn't really understand either. And here I come with like this long list of symptoms. And she's overwhelmed and I'm overwhelmed. And I think at one point she said to me like she was exasperated. And she was like, Do you just want me to like write you a letter for disability? Like, what do you want? And I'm like, No, I don't like I want, I want my life back. Like, that's what I want. Like, I want to understand what's going on. And

I don't think it was until like nine months into all of this that I eventually got referred to a long COVID clinic. I'm in Los Angeles, so it was through Cedar Sinai. And that's really where I started to understand more about what was going on with me and start getting some help and referred to, you know, different specialists who were helping me kind of put

these pieces together, but it took a while to get there. And I think in the meantime, it was like, okay, well, you'll feel better in a few weeks, right? Or like, you'll feel better in a month. It'll be a couple months. Like, you know, and I remember at the time thinking like a couple months? Like, who's sick for two months? Like, that's ridiculous. And, you know, now here we are, three and a half years later, and I'm like, yep, gonna have to manage this if I still want to live my life.

while this is going on.

Zeest Khan (16:31)
What a long journey and a long process. And what strikes me about that is, you know, so many of us have an experience where we feel dismissed or minimized by particularly medical providers. Some of us are considered like whiny and weak, and you were considered too strong for this to have.

Courtney Baker (16:56)
Yeah.

Zeest Khan (17:00)
to be taken seriously. So if you faced that kind of environment in the doctor's offices, you still were able to find community to collaborate with and connect to. Can you tell us a little bit about the other athletes and the way your community?

looks.

Courtney Baker (17:31)
Yeah, absolutely. mean, I think it's essential for everyone with long COVID to find.

other people who understand what you're going through, like really understand it and can empathize, not just be compassionate. Like it's important to have, you know, doctors and family and colleagues who are compassionate, but finding your people who know exactly what you're going through is so important. And I think I've seen so many good support groups out there. And then there are some, you know, you have to, you have to know what's good for you, like what's going to feed your soul versus what is

going to like, you know, fire up your amygdala. But I did manage to find a group of other endurance athletes who also have long COVID and are kind of navigating some of the same stuff that I was specifically as an athlete with long COVID. And I think one day I just did like a search on Facebook for like long COVID athletes. And I found this group it was already in existence before

I joined and I think I don't know how many people were in it at the time, probably less than a thousand for sure. And now there's almost 3000 people in there and I am a moderator now.

group and I can see how many people are still to this day requesting membership. know, COVID still happening, people are still just on the beginning of that that journey and I'm really glad that they can have this group to come to. But yeah, I mean, I've learned just so much from the other athletes in this group, whether, you know, it's people who are kind of coming with research and

you know, articles and studies that have been done and just, you know, we're obviously very focused on kind of the mitochondrial aspect of this and the energy aspect and just the age old question of like, can I exercise? Can I not? Like these are people who, you know, like me, our identity and like so much of who we are and what motivates and drives us and keeps us sane is like moving our body.

in a very intentional way. so to have that be something that is now causing us harm or can cause us harm is very difficult, just physically, mentally, emotionally. So being able to kind of benefit from being in community with other people who are trying to manage the same things I am. And also,

have found resources that have helped them, specifically in that area, or like, here's a specialist who really helped me because they talked to me specifically about exercise. I have a physical therapist out of Bateman Horne Center in Utah, which is like a wonderful resource for anyone who's struggling to understand long COVID, I would refer them there.

He's worked with me a lot on just the exercise question. Can I exercise? Can I not exercise? What is this gonna look like for me? How am I gonna get back to exercise by managing other aspects of my life, by pacing better? And I've shared a lot of those resources with this group and I think, I hope that that has helped other people. So yeah, I would say almost of anything just having that group of athletes has just been so.

helpful for me at least especially in feeling like I'm not alone.

Zeest Khan (21:25)
Yeah, if you're a group of people, it strikes me, who have really been in touch with the way your body functions and in touch more than, certainly more than I am or I ever was, with the ways to push your body's limits.

with a goal in mind, right? You guys are running these incredible races and pushing your bodies in ways that we see Olympians doing right now on TV. How do you approach long COVID symptoms when, you know, it strikes me that you can't have a

Courtney Baker (21:56)
Hmph.

Zeest Khan (22:09)
daily plan that you can rely on because your body feels different every day, at least that's what I'm assuming is your experience, it's been mine. And how do you approach healing and recovery? Those words must have a new meaning to endurance athletes. How is it with you?

Courtney Baker (22:16)
Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I think I can only speak for myself, but I suspect that I probably speak for a lot of athletes and that like the athlete mindset is not necessarily helpful to approaching healing and from long COVID. know, athlete mindset is all about like, toughing it out, like mind over matter, push through like, you know, you've got this, you can do this and you know, it is very

timely that we're having this conversation around the time of the Olympics because we all love a good like success story right or a good comeback story and like Simone Biles and you know all of these amazing athletes and what they overcome like everyone kind of has that story and we celebrate that like wow you overcame like the toughest thing and you yet you know you still persevered and if you ever watch

you know, anyone like finishing a marathon or even some of the athletes in the Olympics, even in shorter races or shorter efforts, there's like a moment of agony, right? Like there's agony before you cross that finish line. And if you watch runners at the end of a marathon, like go through that last aid station, like sometimes they come in and it's like they're shuffling and like no color in their face.

And you know you just like are trying to get your second win, so

bad, right? Like I'm just gonna down these electrolytes and like chug some caffeine and like put some sugar in my body to like force myself to like get to that finish line and you have people cheering for you and you know it's like a moment, right? You finish and then you like feel so good but like that does not work here. Like you so you know I know for me like I approached long COVID in that way. I think

particularly for me in trying to get through a work day, I've managed to keep my full -time job, which I'm so, so lucky for, and I think it's slightly unusual. And the only reason I've been able to do it is all credit to my workplace and my colleagues, and have been immensely supportive and helpful in allowing me to do the things I need to do. But I still would

come to work and my mentality was, okay, if I start getting a headache, I'm going to take this medication. And if my heart, if I get tachycardia, I'll just, you know, take this other medication, like the blue pill, red pill, like matrix stuff where I'm like, okay, one pill to make my heart rate come down and one to make my headache go away. I actually at work, like I have, it's called endurance fuel and I would take it at the end of a race and all it is is like,

sucrose and dextrose and electrolytes and caffeine. It's like fake energy to keep your body going. And I would have to like down one of those during like halfway through my work day to like maintain. And I was thinking that I was being successful and being able to like get through my work day. But all I was doing is like creating a debt, you know, and I had this like impatience about

feeling better or keeping along the track of where I needed to be. I'm going to do these 20 things to make myself feel better. And if that doesn't work, I'm going to do 21 things instead of doing the one thing that I needed to do, which was rest and take care of myself. And I think I'm a slow learner, but for me, was really three years of constantly

Zeest Khan (26:28)
Mm.

Courtney Baker (26:37)
just pushing and overcoming my body's desire to slow down and stop and rest and still having that suffering is good, tough it out. But you know what? There's no finish line. Where's the finish line? There isn't. This is maybe my daily existence for a while. And I just have to be OK with that and learn more about like...

make it, you know, creating more balance and not as much of a debt and a deficit. So, you know, I'm trying to rework my mind. I don't want to lose the good things I have being an athlete, which really is perseverance and strength and determination. But I've had to rework how that looks and take it more from the standpoint of like, I'm going to push as hard as I can to force this to happen.

to more of a like, what does a second wind really mean? Okay, it means proactively resting. It means making sure that I'm staying in a surplus and not operating from a deficit. It's pacing, it's breathing. And then you can even get into things like asking for what you need, telling people what you need. Being okay with saying like, I can't do this, I can't finish this today. I need a little time before

I get back to that. I can't do this meeting at the, you know, with in this room because it's too bright and there's too much, you know, stimulation going on. So it's a whole, it's a whole process. It's a journey.

Zeest Khan (28:21)
You're so amazing Courtney, being able to reflect and have insight and sort of analyze the mental skills that you have that have made you such a successful endurance athlete and being able to modify those things that are not only, I imagine at this point, not only habits but a deep part of you.

Courtney Baker (28:48)
Yeah.

Zeest Khan (28:48)
So I just want to commend you for that. So admirable.

Courtney Baker (28:54)
Thank you. I think you said something when we chatted last week that really stuck with me and it's like long COVID makes everyone philosophers. I think that's what you said. And I think it's a lot because we've had a lot of time. We have a lot of alone time to kind of think about these things. And I don't, you know, I don't want to give the impression it's come easy. Like I have been through it. Like we all have, we all have a unique, unique yet similar. And

Zeest Khan (29:04)
Mm -hmm. Yep.

Courtney Baker (29:24)
I'm having a good day today and I feel good about sharing my story and every day is not like this. Like there are days where I'm just overcome and I like I can't get out of bed or I can't move or I'm crying or but like similar to running I feel like that those are sometimes the moments where like the most change is happening and I don't see it until afterwards but

Yeah, it's been a journey. also, asking for help, I think, is just something that's so hard for all of us and something I'm still working on.

Zeest Khan (30:02)
Yeah, tell me more about that. When we talked, you were mentioning how endurance sports are in many ways a team effort. You don't go at it alone. And you were saying how you had gotten accustomed to being able to ask for appropriate help. How has that been challenged for you since being sick? Are you?

How are you able to ask for help now?

Courtney Baker (30:37)
I... I do not want... I am not an expert on this other than...

I've just recently, like in the last few months maybe, tried to be more intentional about asking for help and I'm kicking myself that I didn't do it earlier because what I'm realizing is that I've this whole time been surrounded by people who want to help me and don't know how to help me. And it creates tension because I'm sitting here thinking,

No one... I had a mantra for a long time through this, which is like not one I recommend, but I was saying to myself, there's no one coming to save you. There's no one coming to help you. Like, you have to do this. You have to figure this out. No one can help you. Like, I have amazing doctors and professionals. Like, I'm not talking about that side of it. I'm talking more about...

the support, the feeling that you're not alone. And even, you know, again, this is why the group that I'm in is so important and finding community. But yeah, so for a long time, it was like, no one's coming to help me. And I cut out a lot of those relationships, because it was easier, because I couldn't articulate what I needed. They couldn't guess what I needed. Whatever they did was usually wrong, because it was drawing on my energy and

instead of helping. It's just, very hard situation to be in. But I just started with like baby steps with starting kind of from scratch. Like, okay, I need to kind of clear the slate of a lot of distractions and a lot of maybe ways that I thought I was getting help but weren't really helpful to me. Like being in too many groups or having too many conversations going on a text thread or too many distractions.

thinking more along the lines of like, is it that I need? How can I ask this person to help me? So I'll just give an example. For me, at work, it's been really pivotal. You know, instead of...

you know, again, having having a lunch meeting somewhere where like, I know that it's going to be hot. And there's going to be a lot of extraneous noise that my system is going to have to manage and different people to look at. I'll say like, Hey, I really want to have this meeting. But can we do this meeting over zoom because I really need to be at home that day? Or can we do it, you know, in another location? I've also found really creative ways to explain to people kind of what's going on.

with my brain sometimes. have a colleague who I work very closely with and she's like a rock star. She's phenomenal in what she can get done and how many things she can manage at once. She's like a multitasker extraordinaire. And sometimes when we meet, like she has so many ideas and thoughts. And I've learned instead of like trying to incorporate it, I've said to her, okay, this is what's going on right now. You're like an iPhone 15 and you're running

like 20 apps all at once and you're doing it so fast and so brilliantly and I admire you and I love it and I'm like an iPhone 5 and if I have more than three apps like I gotta close out like I gotta close the app and now we have the shorthand where we have a meeting or I talk to her and she'll be like okay I'm gonna switch apps are you ready and I'll be like yes go so you know I don't have to be in the position where I'm like well let me tell you about

cognitive issues that I'm having, and this is what brain fog really is. I don't have to feel like I'm burdening someone, but I can find creative ways to explain, okay, here's the analogy, here's what it's like. I think once you give people a frame of reference that they can easily understand, it creates room for them to help you to have more conversations. Anyway, I have found that it's been a lot easier

than I thought because this whole time everyone's only been wanting to help me anyway and now I'm giving them easy clear ways that they can do that and of course that's that's benefiting me as well.

Zeest Khan (35:07)
What a great suggestion and so creative and so understandable and accessible for the people around you. And that takes work too. You must have given this a lot of thought. hear a lot of people say it's, well, I know this is a fact. is hard to explain what help you need. There's an onboarding process and

Courtney Baker (35:19)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Zeest Khan (35:36)
Being able to explain things in ways that are accessible to people who are not directly experiencing long COVID must empower them tremendously too and benefit you.

Courtney Baker (35:47)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess I didn't, you you only know your own perspective, but now that I've had like some real talk conversations with some people in my life, I've realized like, they just want, they didn't know what to do to help and they didn't want to hurt. And so then it just creates like more and more and more space and you know.

you don't have to like dive right back in as someone with long COVID who I need to be extremely, extremely careful about my sensory inputs and my energy load and my pacing. And I could get completely bogged down within an hour of waking up with everything social related if I let it. I had, again, I had to think long and hard about like, what's the right pace for me? Like, you know, for another thing I've done.

that's been helpful is I turned off all the notifications on my phone. So when I'm ready and I have a moment and my brain's ready to like, I'll look at my text messages, I'll look at my social media. But I'm very selective. Because I have to be because it'll just drain my battery so fast. But I tell people like I tell them like, hey, just so you know, I could shut my notifications off on my phone. If I don't get back to you right away. That's why and they're like, that's a great idea. Cool. Like,

Thanks.

Zeest Khan (37:13)
Yeah, that would help, think, everybody, whether or not you have long COVID. Was it awkward to start asking for help? And is that something that other endurance athletes have trouble with?

Courtney Baker (37:16)
Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I think it's what... depending on what type of athlete you are, I can only speak for myself. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a little bit of a character trait, and it's funny that you ask that because...

When you run 100 miles, or a long race, running race at least, there's something that you can have called a pacer. so if you're running 100 miles, after 50 miles by most rules and most races, you're allowed to have a pacer come and run with you the last 25 or 50 miles, however long you need, just to kind of help you navigate at night or whatever, know, whatever, help you make sure you're getting nutrition and rest and that

you're handling things correctly. And the first time I ran 100 miles, I had a pacer who's, you know, one of my favorite people. And she's a great friend and it was lovely to have her there. But I realized that like my second time running 100 miles, was like, I think I'm gonna do this on my own. Like that's just more who I am. Like I want I needed to go through that on my own. I wanted to go through it on my own. You'll notice I haven't

mention that I do team sports. You know, the sports that I'm doing are very, even though there's a lot of community, I think everyone is really out there to like conquer their own race, conquer their own demons. Like you need to like, go through it. Like, again, no one's coming to help me. Like this is it. I'm out here on my own. It can get a little dramatic. But yeah, I mean, I think I took that mentality off the race course as well.

and really just wanted to like...

Part of it's not wanting to burden people. Part of it is not wanting to dilute my value, right? I think I'm good at my job and I have stuff to offer and that misnomer that if I ask for help, like suddenly I'm burdening other people and I'm not bringing as much value, which is really silly because if the tables are turned, like I'm a very compassionate person. I'm trying to replace empathy

compassion by the way because empathy requires a lot out of you and compassion is a little easier but I you know I would do I like to think I would do anything for a colleague or a friend or someone I love so and that feels good right it feels good so just trying to allow that vulnerability of

Needing help like I can't do this alone. I can't like I have to ask for help I have to set boundaries. I have to ask for what I need and You know, I I try to do it without arrogance and without apology or kind of that's my Mantra like I don't want to be arrogant or angry about what I need But I also shouldn't apologize for it. This is like where I am right now I had a really good

conversation with my supervisor last week, just like, you know, a check in on how I'm doing and I was able to take some extended time off this summer, which is really healing for me. And now I'm a little like I worried about going back to a five day work week. I'm at a school, there's kids coming back, like it gets super busy and I, I want to maintain what I've gained over the summer. And you know, she was like, tell me five things I can do to help you.

And I was like, what? She's like, I want you to think about five things that I can do to help you because she's like, you don't ask for help. Like just tell me what you need. Like we want you here. We want you to feel good about being here and you, you know, just think about it and, and let me know. And that, you know, just like spoke volumes to me. And I said, you know, I feel so bad. Like I don't want

Zeest Khan (41:13)
Wow.

Courtney Baker (41:39)
I don't want to put anything on anyone else. And she was like, but like, if you don't ask for help, like you're putting yourself in a position where you can't contribute in the way that you want to. And she also was like, you know, I think you're a little bit of a canary in a coal mine, like what you need to be able to do your job and talking about taking breaks and having rests and having a little bit more of a flexible way of working and when you're stressing your brain and you know, she's like,

that's just good for everybody. Maybe we all need to be thinking about that. And I know that that is a dream scenario. Again, I am so lucky and I don't know many other people with long COVID who have had that success in the workplace, which is why then we're kind of forced to take our FMLA or use our disability or apply for long -term disability. I've been so right on the edge. Even two months ago, I was like, okay, I got to think about

this FMLA and like I need more time so I'm really lucky that I and maybe it won't always be like that but yeah I've really had to be pushed to ask for help and I'm I'm working on it.

Zeest Khan (42:55)
It sounds like two things. One, you have some great partners in your life, people who want the best for you. And two, you've been able to receive those offers and receive that information and reflect on how it works best for you. It's amazing. You've shared Courtney so many nuggets of wisdom while we've talked.

Courtney Baker (43:01)
Yeah.

Yeah. Thank

Zeest Khan (43:21)
Is there anything else that you want the person listening who is either struggling with long COVID today or has a loved one struggling through a complex disease like this to know?

Courtney Baker (43:39)
Yeah, I'll try and keep this short. Brevity's not my strong suit, obviously, but, you know, I think one of the things that have helped me recently is everyone's gonna have to...

get to acceptance or some form of acceptance, whatever your form of acceptance is, in different ways. So I can't really tell anyone, like, how to get that feeling of like, this is who I am right now and this is where I am. But when I finally got there, I realized something else simultaneously and that is this is super hard. There are really bad days. It's really scary sometimes. And

Having long COVID does not mean that I can't experience joy. I can't experience happiness. I can't love. I can't be loved. It might look differently than it did before, but you know, maybe in some ways it's more authentic even, and it's more genuine, and I'm discovering a little bit more about myself. So I'm really trying.

to kind of cohabitate with long COVID and with happiness and purpose. There's something that one my colleagues at the school where I work says, he says, these are little kids, right? They're like kindergartners, but they're living their lives right now. This is not just preparation for some great thing you're gonna do or the best college you're gonna go to or the best job you're gonna get. And someday you're happy and someday, and I think we think so linear.

about happiness and like, well, once I have this, then I'll be happy. Once I have this, then I'll be happy. And I just realized that like three years of long COVID and I just kept saying like, once I recovered, I'll be happy. Well, I'm at the point, like I don't even know what recovery is or what it looks like or if I'm ever gonna get it. And I also think like recovery sets up this weird dichotomy of like people who have figured it out versus people who have not figured it out or people who are happy.

people who are not happy. Like, it's a journey. Like there is, I don't know if there is a finish line, but like no one's going to be cheering. Like there's no beer at the end. Like it's just, it's a journey and we have to like just find the kind of the bright moments along the way.

You know, I think the other thing I really want people to know is like, I, if you have long COVID, if someone you love has long COVID, like they are tougher than anyone I have ever toed a line with in a race. It is hard.

It is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. And you are not overreacting. Now that I'm in a place where I'm having more good days, like I sometimes can actually have a day where I'm like, I didn't even feel like I had long COVID today. Those days are still a little bit few and far between, but they're just coming together. But when I have one of those days, I'm probably happier than I've ever been in my life because I am so grateful for how good I

feel. And also I have the perspective of everything I've gone through in the last three and a half years and how serious it is. Like it is serious. This is not in your head. You are not overreacting. You are not alone. Like we're all in this kind of lonely and scary era right now, but you're really not alone. And you know, most people if they had what we wake up with almost every day would be like calling 911, right? So you are

Tough.

You're doing the best you can. I think, you know, knowing that you're valuable, you're precious, you're worthy. You can have love, you can have happiness, you can laugh a little, you know, find those moments where you can. And you know, you have so much to give. So like, keep going, keep finding the things that bring you joy and where you can feel good about yourself. And if I can just put in one plug for people who are like me,

who feel up to telling a story or contributing. It's so important that we keep raising awareness, that we advocate, that we donate if we can. I still run into people all the time who are like, what's wrong COVID? We need to raise that awareness. And it's hard because we're asking a group of people who sometimes in many cases literally cannot get out of bed to help.

It's hard for us to advocate for ourselves. So if you're in a position to do so, please do so in whatever way feels good to you.

Zeest Khan (48:35)
Courtney Baker, you are by all measures a champion. Thank you so much for sharing your story and your wisdom today. Your reflections have been so powerful and I am going to challenge myself and challenge you who is listening to follow Courtney's suggestions of disabling all notifications that you don't absolutely need.

Courtney Baker (48:41)
Aww, thank you.

Zeest Khan (49:06)
and two that five point list. Write down five things that you need. What an amazing exercise. How can listeners learn more about you? Maybe join the Facebook group that you moderate and how can they follow you if you want to be followed?

Courtney Baker (49:18)
Yes.

yeah, I mean, I'm happy for people to follow me

I'm on social media and I'm way happy to connect with anybody who would find that helpful. do, particularly on my Facebook page, I've written a lot about Long COVID and I have collected a lot of Long COVID friends along the way. So I'm happy to offer that. The group that I'm in, it's for endurance athletes. And it is on Facebook. If you just do a search for Long COVID endurance athletes, it should pop up, but I'm also happy.

to provide a link to that if you are an athlete and you're listening to this. We would love to have you. And I just want to thank you for this opportunity. I mean, such an honor for me to tell my story and talk to you. And you are doing amazing things and connecting people and providing such an important lifeline. And so thank you, Zeest for having me.

Zeest Khan (50:31)
I am just trying to amplify the voices of people who have been in this and can speak to this more eloquently than I can. There is so much more I feel like I can talk to you about. And I think we do need to schedule another like Zoom coffee to chat about more and more things. All right, thanks Courtney.

Courtney Baker (50:44)
Yes.

Please, look at a group going.

That'd be great. Thank you.

Zeest Khan (50:59)
Thank you for listening to another episode of Long COVID MD. I am Dr. Zeest Khan and I am so grateful that I got to meet Courtney. I hope that this conversation benefited you. Maybe you saw yourself in it. Whether or not you're an athlete, reach out to me. I would love to get to know you too. My email is longcovidmd at gmail .com and you can find me on my website at longcovidmd .com.

I hope you're doing well today and until next time, bye for now.