Yeah, I'm really excited about this quote and this particular artist because she has been somebody that has been in my peripheral for a long time because of a certain photograph that she was in with a number of world famous male artists, and she is the only female represented in the photo, even though there were other females that were a part of this group. And so I've been reading the Helen Frankenthaler biography Fierce Pose Helen Frankenthaler and 1950s New York. There's a lot of different artists that I've studied regularly in this book, but I just I love the way that Alexander Nemeroff has really written this story and really kind of piggybacked off of Night Street Women, which is another fabulous, fabulous read. But I came across this quote might have been two weeks ago or a week and a half ago and it's been on my mind constantly and the artist's name is Hedestern. She's a Romanian, born American artist and I'm going to read her quote and then I'm going to go a little deeper into kind of some art history today before you and I discuss the quote, if that's okay with you. I just think you know, if you know 1950s New York and you know the abstract expression is seen, which we've talked about quite a bit. You've seen the picture of the Erasables, which is a number of the New York school painters with a certain woman standing up on a table in the back of the room in the back of the photograph and surrounded by a number of people that we've either talked about their quotes already in this podcast or quotes we will eventually so this quote she wrote, and this is 1940s, I believe.
Speaker 1:When she wrote this she said to serve your vision, you have to master your technique. You cannot cheat matter. It shows. You must learn to respect its laws. You are required to use patience, courage and honesty, and I'll read that again in a minute. I'm going to dive into some art history about head of stern real quick. So, head of stern, romanian, born American artist who, as I shared, was a part, an active member of the New York Art School of Painters, and her work is very associated with abstract expressionism and its birth, but also pre abstract expression. She was very involved in surrealism and even data ism as well.
Speaker 1:When she was in Romania, she was one of the several young Bucharest artists working in the studio of the data co founder and surrealist painter, marcel Janko. Pretty incredible fact that she was literally working at her younger age in the studio of the co founder of the data movement, like a lot of artists during World War Two that were in Eastern and even Western Europe. There was a mass migration to the US and New York and she was a part of that migration. Later on not early on and she happened to move to New York and lived right next door to Peggy Guggenheim pretty good spot to choose to live. And they became really close friends. So you can already assume what's going to happen in the world of Peggy Guggenheim if a female artist who is exceptional lives next door.
Speaker 1:During her time with Peggy she became reacquainted with a lot of the surrealist artists she knew in Paris who had started to come to New York Andre Breton and Marcel Duchamp and Max Ernst. And by 1943, she was regularly shown at Peggy Guggenheim's Art of the Century Gallery in New York and included in the massive show exhibition by 31 Women. So her career when she hit New York she hit the ground running with everybody who was somebody that time, because they're a part of Peggy. And number two, when the Betty Parsons Gallery opened in 47, she was one of the first artists represented by Betty Parsons. So here you have probably the two largest female run and owned galleries and dealers, representing Hedda Stern right at the beginning of the 1950s. She was included in just about every show that the New York Art School was in in the 40s and 50s and her contribution to ABEX came in the form I think you're really going to like this, nathan came in the form of her use of commercial spray paint to depict motion and light in her renderings of roads, highways and cityscapes. So is there an influence of street art pre street art by Hedda Stern? I don't know. I don't know if that conversation has been had, but I'm sure there were not that many artists at that time using spray paint in their work.
Speaker 1:During her time there, she became a key participant in the artist sessions at Studio 35, which is a very, very key group of discussions and conversations about the modern art scene in New York at the time and the aims of the artists. So you have this group of artists who are breaking boundaries and creating new ideas and themes and they're constantly talking about them. Together. We talk about the importance of an artist network and a group of artists. This group of artists included Robert Motherwell, rothko, barrett Newman, ad Reinhart, william DeKooning, hans Hoffman, adolf Gottlieb, louis Bégois, david Smith, and you get the picture. This is a group of some of the most transformative and really innovative artists in the history of the art world.
Speaker 1:Discussing these things, and after a major two day session in 1950, 18 painters and 10 sculptors signed an open letter to the president of MoMA to protest aesthetically conservative group exhibition juries because they were not being allowed in. And at that time MoMA was like you're not it, we're going to stick with the traditional. So they penned this letter as an open rejection of MoMA. So imagine even that impact. Right here you are climbing the ladder and you're to the largest museum in New York and one in the world saying you know we reject you. After this letter comes out, time Magazine does an article on it and dubs the group the Irrassable 18, and attacked the artist for the distortion of fact and that they had a contempt for modern paintings. So then, oh sorry, the Harold Tribune actually published the Irrassable 18. Life Magazine covered the protest and included a photograph of fifteen of the letters. Twenty eight sign is including earned spirit newman james brooks rough coat.
Speaker 1:If you've seen the black and white image online, it's a very famous painting. I mean you've got cliford still, and jackson paul like and all these guys at ryan heart got leave the coating, all city in suits, you know, looking tough, got their machismo on. And then there's a woman standing at the back and it's head of stern. She's the only woman. She showed up late for the photo shoot, which I think is hilarious, but she's the only woman woman in that photo. And Later in her career she actually had a quote where she said I'm known more for that damn photo than for eighty years of my artwork.
Speaker 1:Little bit of history on head of that. I think very, very important because she's one of the most influential female artists In the history of artwork and we just don't hear too much about her unless you're studying it. And I wasn't even familiar with her to an extent other I knew who she was in the picture, I'd seen maybe one of her pieces, two of her pieces before, and as I, as I hit this quote in the book, I did a deep dive after that point and I really, I mean I am wowed Buy her work. I mean it is incredible just moving from surrealism and then into abstract expressionism and then figuring out the mediums and the things she's doing. And this quote really hit me because I talk about technique and medium and those things a lot. So I'm gonna read the quote again and let's jump in and I hope that that little bit of history interest people enough to do some really deep dives on head of stern and her artwork. So the quote again To serve your vision, you have to master your technique.
Speaker 1:You cannot cheat matter. It shows. You must learn to respect its laws. You are required to use patience, courage and honesty, throwing you this quote and going hey, head of stern, here's a quote about mastering technique. You know what was your first impression when you kind of looked at that? And First impressions not like deep diving, you know, philosophically into when you first read it what's your reaction?
Speaker 2:well, being inherently self absorbed human being. My first thought was to apply to my Approach to the art making process, and I personally I don't have any interest in mastery. I've got a lot of interest in exploration and and experimentation. So you know part of that systematics and how you want to Break down the word of master or mastery, but I am a big fan of technique, you know, so I might. My first thought was this is really interesting and specifically, I would say that the part that captured me the most was that very last sentence about that. The artist is required to use patience, courage and honesty. We're talking about character, which is which is really interesting. That, to me, was very, was very fascinating, and I'll throw it back to you and ask what do you think the relevance of those virtues are To the art making process? And maybe just that, the context that quote.
Speaker 1:So goes back to what you said character, right, and I'll bring that up in a second with kind of character and personality. So the quote to kind of piggyback off of that. It's one of those quotes that I had to read over and over and over and over again and I still don't know if I completely grasp it yet. But the more that I've kind of gone in and researched what other artists are saying, or writers or creators about technique and things, I'm starting to grasp it a little more. And I think, after maybe the time of reading that I went away, she's saying to serve your vision, you have to master your technique. Because when I first was reading it you kind of glance over and you're not really thinking about certain words within. You know what, you're just kind of reading and I was thinking, oh, you need to master technique, don't cheat, don't cheat it, you gotta master it. And I'm like what the freak? I've been really discouraged in the studio lately and just with my own work and thinking of how do I break out of certain realms or certain definitions and things. And I'm like, okay, you know, I've got certain techniques I do that have become mine. How do I build on those? How do I? And so I went to serve your vision. You have to master technique and you know, like any good quote, you have to kind of dive into other people at that level talking about those things sometimes.
Speaker 1:And I came across this quote by oscar wild and he says technique is really personality. This is the reason why the artist cannot teach it and why people cannot learn it and why the aesthetic critic can understand it. So technique is really personality. It's you in the piece, the technique that comes, it's what you are, what your voice is, how you are creating the work. Right is the technique, she's saying to serve your vision. Right where you want to go with your work, how you want it to be perceived by the public, how you're Put it on to the water, the canvas of the sculpture, the photograph or the script that you're writing, whatever you've got a, master your technique. You can't cheat matter. Right, it's easy to just do something and then put it out there, but it's not easy to have patients, courage and honesty In your artwork and spend the countless hours trying to get your technique down and serving it to a way that when you put it out there, it's received aesthetically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's funny when you said that. Rereading that first sentence, you know she uses the word your twice. Your vision, your technique yes.
Speaker 1:Right, so there's a lot of emphasis there yeah a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think about some whatever the opposite of mastery would be. I think that, especially when you consider the idea of not cheating matter, a vision is more than just, you know, a happy accident that happens to look neat, right, and so when I think about mastering your technique to serve your vision, it's a matter of repetition and just spending a lot of time with whatever it is that you're trying to do, so that you can communicate whatever your vision might be in a consistent and at least replicatable fashion to really mine you know that vision and really explore those ideas to communicate them properly. I was just looking up quotes about mastery, because this is a word, it's an idea. I think about a lot and there's a lot of different sort of, I suppose, interpretations of what mastery really means, but this one jumped out at me Michelangelo. If people knew how hard I worked to get my mastery, it wouldn't seem so wonderful at all.
Speaker 1:Yep, I've got that one down as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no idea, yeah, but I think that's to me just very encouraging as an artist, in that, whether it be Michelangelo, hedestern or any of the other amazing artists of the past and present, nobody comes by that mastery easily. Nobody comes by that mastery without a ton of work and a lot of just repetition. And one thing that I think about when it comes to technique is the importance of just paying attention and making note of what works and what doesn't. I don't know why this example is coming to mind, but our oldest daughter is a competitive, fast pitch player softball and she's a pitcher and there's a tremendous amount of technique, as is with any number of things, but there was a time early in the younger ages where I could actually see what she was doing and provide maybe some useful tips on technique. That day has long since passed, but it's interesting when she's having, like her pitching coach, slowing it down to whatever 240 frames a second and just going frame by frame to really break down technique and how even just one component of that technique being off, how it influences everything downstream from there.
Speaker 2:And I think there are a lot of correlations there between really anything that requires multiple steps to process, understanding that. Not that keeping perfection in mind has really served anybody certainly not me but understanding that there's a purpose to technique, there's a process to it, and paying attention, being a bit of a scientist or an archaeologist, sort of studying your own work. Sometimes I try not to be in that sort of analytical left brain place when I'm the act of creating, but there's certainly a lot of place for really breaking that down after the fact. How did this happen, and is that something I want to spend more time with, to get closer to a replicatable technique that may resemble mastery at some point in the future?
Speaker 1:Well, and I love what our friend Steven Pressfield says in his book the War of Art. He says the professional dedicates themselves to mastering technique, not because they believe technique is a substitute for inspiration, but because they want to be in a possession of the full arsenal of skills when inspiration does come. And you and I talk about that a lot too. Right, inspiration is fleeting. It's not an everyday occurrence, it's not in every week or even in every month occurrence. Right, it comes and it goes, in small moments, sometimes big moments, but they're not always really close together. And I love that he's saying like that, like we talked about earlier, the time spent, the hours and the hours and the hours and the time spent experimenting, finding your technique, finding your voice, your vision and the work so that when inspiration does strike, you have this full arsenal of skills ready.
Speaker 1:And this like leads me to a fantastic Julia Childs quote, which I haven't started watching the Doc series on Julia Childs, it's on HBO but I'm really excited to watch it. And she says once you have mastered a technique, you hardly need to look at a recipe again and can take off on your own. Say that again Once you have mastered technique, you hardly need to look at a recipe again and you can take off on your own right. And that piggybacks what Steven said about you're dedicated to mastering this technique of yours because you know the second inspiration comes. You don't have to think, you're just in the flow and you're just creating. I love both of those quotes.
Speaker 2:That makes me think of the Julia Childs quote specifically is just the process of making. The less time I mean and like you're saying, when, when inspiration strikes, when we're actually in that flow the less time that you know one can spend thinking about anything technical for, quite frankly, because it's already intuitive, it's already baked into the DNA of the creator the better the work's going to be right. Yep, a lot less starts and stops, a lot less costs, a lot less, a lot less consideration for, you know, things that may not be consistent with communicating the full vision.
Speaker 1:Yep, but I got to arsenal quotes today to go with technique because I had to dive in my turn Me first yeah, dude, you go Go.
Speaker 2:I'm just still stuck on the virtues part.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Just because I think about, like, the opportunity for art, making it, consuming it, but the power of art to help us develop as human beings understand ourselves, understand the human condition, you know, is tremendous. So I think that this reference to character, to virtue, is really interesting. So I found the smile on Angelo quote that I really like. Courage is the most important of all the virtues, Because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage. And that, of course, could be its own episode in itself. But I wanted to bring it into the conversation today because I think that as you look at those, so those three that had a talked about in this particular quote, that were breaking down patience, courage and honesty, I think that of those, patience makes a lot of sense. I mean, if we're applying it specifically to the process and the experience of making art, it's something that I think about a fair amount because I like it inherently.
Speaker 2:Courage, I think I just like that, I like the way that she addresses that right, you can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage because of those two. Courage, right, I mean that is kind of foundational to practicing patience consistently. It's foundational to practicing honesty. Consistently. I mean any virtue worth practicing. You know it's not going to be easy, right? So it's going to require some courage specifically to apply it in situations which are difficult.
Speaker 1:And the courage is doing something in the face of fear, doing something that may cause pain, right Like to yourself, to oneself. And so it's like you think of trying to master your technique and find a technique that churs, that takes courage in its own, because there should be a lot of failure in there, and we already know there's a ton of fear in that, because you can do something that looks good and you can cheat it. You can cheat matter, as she's saying right, you cannot cheat it, but you, an artist, can cheat matter, but people will know in the end right.
Speaker 2:Can you get some examples of that? What does that mean? Well, you know what would it look like to cheat matter as an artist.
Speaker 1:All right, let's get in trouble here, bring on the fight. People, listeners, because so we've talked about I've talked about this a lot with my artist peers and you and other people, and you know there are plenty of artists that throw pain on a canvas and it looks nice, to use a term that we both know that we've discussed lately. Doing something that looks nice, right, rather than doing something that's pushing boundaries, changing norms, locating a certain vision, adding some newity to it, innovating, what, however you want to say it, right, it's really easy to just and I'm gonna use painting and as an example, rather than all of the art Just going, I'm gonna throw some paint on, I'm gonna mix these colors, I'm gonna get a squeegee and gear heart Richter a moment and then put it out there and it looks nice. It can fit on a wall, right, is it? Art sure falls into the definition of art, but does it fit my own personal definition of art, which is pushing the boundaries, spending the time mastering technique, hours and hours and hours, not releasing and showing everything to the public, waiting and being patient? Right, it takes courage to be patient, like you just said. It takes strong courage to go. I'm not gonna put that on Instagram. I'm not gonna put these 20 paintings on Instagram because they're not where I want my work to be right now, so why put them out there?
Speaker 1:So for me it's like it's also an honest thing. It's easy to be a designer as an artist just create looks and create colors, and I'm not saying that's wrong. If somebody's making a living doing that, more power to them, that's fine. But for me, I make art for the sake of art. I don't make art to get wealthy. I love supporting what I do by my art, but I want to spend time trying to master my technique and my vision and hopefully start creating things that separate from the pack over time. Am I very? It no way, not even close. I know how much time it's gonna take and that's the honest part of it too.
Speaker 1:Right, like I'm having patients, like Keta says, I feel like I'm being courageous and doing things that I'm uncomfortable with at times to see if they work, and I'm wasting supplies. The painting may not get out in the world, I may tear it apart, cut it up paint over it, flip it over paint on the other side, whatever. But I'm trying to live in courage and I'm trying to be honest with my work and so I do think that, like she says, you cannot cheat matter. The art world knows, curators know if you're cheating the system, art dealers know, gallery owners know they'll look at it and go, nope, like that, that's too much this, that's too much her, that's too much him that somebody else's work or they don't really, they can tell, they don't really care, they're just going through the motions. They're not mastering anything, they're just going through the motions.
Speaker 1:I know that that's probably gonna make a few people mad out there, including friends of mine too that maybe I've had this conversation with in the past. But it's like you know, do what you want to do at the end of the day, and I'm fine with People that are doing whatever they want to do. But I'm in it for art. That's not a sexy thing, that's not a glamorous thing, but I'm in it for art sake. I want to continue to grow and develop and tell him 90 years old and change and experiment and find my vision and my voice, because I want the viewer to feel something I want to be. I want the viewer to feel truth and honesty and emotion when they see the work on the wall. It's really easy to walk into a room and walk right by art. I want, I want the viewer to stop at my piece. I want them to stop and feel something. You know, and I don't know what it takes to do that, but I truly do think that honesty does lead to that somehow.
Speaker 2:I mean we think about honesty. One can't be honest with anybody else until right we're honest with ourselves. Yeah, and I think, to kind of bring that full circle, as I'm hearing you talk, there are a lot of responses to what you just said. I'm sure we'll hear some of them in the comments. But I think that it's important to be honest with yourself about what your vision is and to be proactively in the game of evolving your vision. Right, like it's not the type of thing that you just identify somewhere I mean, maybe just for some people, I don't know, but it doesn't seem to be, certainly not for myself the type of thing you just say that's my vision and to stay on nothing but a straight line from here till I, you know, follow over or stop.
Speaker 2:So I think that's an important thing is to I mean, I'll throw another virtue that's not in the quote, but you know just awareness, you know, and that would be another whatever version of self honesty, but just being aware of all. Right, what's my vision now? Am I being honest with what the vision is? Is, is my work, is my technique serving that vision, but also being open to exploration of how that vision should naturally evolve over time. Right, and that's the whole point of patience, being just being in the game, getting in the reps. You know doing the thing enough to be able to have a sense of you know what is honest and true to you and what isn't, but I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1:No, exactly, you know, I I've been thinking a lot about Jackson Pollock lately because I'm studying so much of the forties and fifties well, twenties, through the fifties, new York art scene, and so thinking of Jackson, who obviously has a struggles but is obviously one of the most influential artists in the history of art. And when Helen Frankenthaler was a young 20 year old and walked into, got to go behind the scenes to see Jackson's first exhibition of his drip paintings, it blew her away. And she says that moment gave me the freedom to do whatever I wanted to do the next day in the studio. That one moment is what told gave her confidence and permission to do what she wanted to do and over a period of short time is when she started to lead to her poor paintings. And so you know, I look at Jackson who I believe was 100% patient, courageous and honest in his work. It's easier for people to go. He just started dripping whatever. Well, that took courage at that time in life because he was going to do nothing else but make art, nothing else. Starved friends would bring sandwiches to he and Lee's door and leave them out, psyched, had no money for food. You know, their goal was art period.
Speaker 1:And when you look at Jackson's art pre the drip paintings, he's trying to be Picasso. You look at his paintings, you know you're trying to be Picasso and he even says it. We're all trying to be Picasso. Back then All of us were. But then as they get together and they're starting to explore you know these artists DeCunning and Heta Stern and Rothko, and all these guys are talking about these changes, and Gottlieb and Gorky and Franz Klein and all the Ninth Street women, they're all together like trying to push boundaries in these areas and things.
Speaker 1:I can only imagine, like people look at Pollock's work and go, oh, he's just slinging paint around. Well, was he, do we know Right? Is he struggling with his thoughts on his own mental illness and his own addiction and struggles while he's painting in a dance? Was he finding complete freedom from all those other things that hinder his life while he created and painted and dripped and threw paint around the canvas and moved, you know, in a spiritual dance, so to speak.
Speaker 1:Like I have to think, as my knowing what I go through in the studio as an artist, all those things are involved in the action, all those things are involved in his technique, whether he spoke about them or not, which he did not most of the time. As an artist, you know what you feel and you're doing and the things that you're expressing while you're painting. So to me, I look at an artist like that and I go man. That courage and the honesty with his work that comes out inspired the Frankenthalers and so many other artists to find their technique, to find their vision and their voice and their work, and that, to me, that's powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the scary thing about mastery for me, or mastering a technique, is getting stuck, becoming over committed to any one thing you know. I wanted to share a Helen Frankenthaler quote that pertains to what we're talking about In the medium. There is the difficulty, challenge, fascination and often productive clumsiness of learning a new method, the wonderful puzzles and problems of translating with new materials. So how does that strike you? I'm going to read it again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, read it.
Speaker 2:There's the difficulty, challenge, fascination and often productive clumsiness of learning a new method, the wonderful puzzles and problems of translating with new materials.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean that was Helen. She went from painting easel painting and painting paintings right to hmm, I'm going to pour a little bit of this out and let it sit and rest and pour this out. And let it sit and rest and pour this out. There's clumsiness in those first pieces, right, and then over time, with this new technique, she mastered her. Now, listen, so many thoughts coming in just thinking about that too, especially because I'm so ingrained in Helen.
Speaker 1:Right now, technique is a skill or an ability. It's a way of doing something, a skillful way of doing something. So most of the time it's kind of put into art or things. But technique doesn't mean it looks the same all the time. Technique doesn't mean it's the same gestures, the same strokes. It's the same same, same same. Technique is like your way, your, your Nathan Turborgs, helen Frankenthalers, heta Stearns particular way that they go about their skill and their craft, what they're making, their art.
Speaker 1:So I think it's easy for an artist to hear the word technique and get scared and go I'm just not a good painter. It has nothing to do with being a good painter or a poor painter, or it's your way of creating your work is the technique. So there's, it's an open door for experimentation, for risk taking, for trying new things and new mediums. All that fits under technique. It all fits into the way that you create your work, how you go about, the way your work is created. So it's not we're not thinking same lint like the same exact thing all the time. It's going to be change. You're going to get older in age, which means you become wiser, and I love you know.
Speaker 1:Going back to the Michelangelo quote on mastery, he's saying it's not that wonderful if you were behind the scenes. It's work and work and work and work and failure and work and courage and work and honesty and stopping and starting. You know all those things. That's all wrapped up into, like Michelangelo finding his technique and technique. Oh, renaissance painting and abstract painting. Now we got two different worlds that we're looking technique wise. We're looking at academic technique versus emotional technique now. So there's plenty of separations between those things too. That can create a whole other conversation.
Speaker 1:But I want to drop another quote from an artist from today, not a well known artist, I just came across her looking for things on technique. Her name is Kathleen Cook and it says she says technique is not the most important part of making art. It is the why of the painting, the idea, the concept and the message being conveyed. That gives an artwork its life and purpose. So now we can jump back up to Oscar Wilde. Technique is really personality. So she's saying technique is not the most important part of art. The most important part is the why of painting, the idea, the concept and the message that the artist is conveying. That's giving the artwork life and purpose. And I think that's where Heta Stern, when she says you cannot cheat matter, it shows If somebody doesn't have the why in the painting, the idea, the concept and the message being conveyed, then matters being cheated and people will know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the definition of technique itself A way of carrying out a particular task, especially the execution or performance of an artistic work or a scientific procedure. I could have stopped at A right, yeah, a way, not the way, right, right, and that's an important part. It's just a way and it's, you know, back to our, our core quote that we started with it's your way of doing things, not the way, yep, not the in the broad sense binary.
Speaker 2:You know right or wrong. It's a way that you yourself have developed and spent time with, patiently, courageously, honestly, to get to a point where you've mastered you know what's yours when.
Speaker 1:Picasso, the master, says the more technique you have, the less you have to worry about it. But the more technique there is, the less there is. That's an interestingly confusing quote. But he's saying the more technique you have, the more that you have like in your arsenal, the less you're really going to have to worry about it. So you put in so much time into your technique that it just comes out like Julia Child said. You know what I mean. Once you've got it, no need to look, you're just rolling. You found your voice, you're able to do it. Yeah, yeah. And that's hard as a young artist. So let's, let's piggyback this to beginning artists, to the younger, not in age, but in time with painting, the younger beginning artists, to just emerging artists.
Speaker 1:Technique can be frightening. It can be a very frightening thing, because I hear this over and over again. I just want to find my voice, just trying to find my voice. There's this struggle between what you feel like you should be creating as far as what you see out there in the art world of the art, that what you feel like you should be creating and what you're actually spending time creating, and so that's where we want to steal technique and ideas from other people and practice them and spend time. And it takes time, right? Oh, it's just.
Speaker 1:It's such a hard conversation to have with younger artists when they just, you know, failing and failing and failing and failing and it looks immature and it looks immature and I just can't get past will, because it takes time and I always tell them keep going. You will find the moment where, all of a sudden, you start to find your technique. You start to find your voice and your gestures and your marks and your pores, whatever it is the way that you do things. You start to find it. Then you go, oh, oh, you know, there's like this evolutionary big bang explosion. Or you're just like ah, that's me, that's not Psy, that's not Helen, that's not Heather Day anymore, that's not, you know so and so anymore that's me in the work. And then you build on it and you build on it and you build on it and over time, now the full paintings start to reflect your technique, your vision, your work. Now it's time to serve it and just keep going.
Speaker 2:And that might be a good place to end. Yeah, it's just the way that you just brought a full circle right. It all comes back to the core idea behind you know what we're doing here, which is just make art. Yeah, you know, the destination that requires exploration is not arrived at by sitting in at home base and looking at a map. Right, right, you got to get out there, you got to find your way, you got to pick through all the stuff, you know, to get to where you're ultimately going. But it's one step at a time in the general direction of where you think you might, you know, want to go, where your vision, you know, may or may not take you, but the art leads us there. It's not a, it's not something you engineer or think about in advance. It's something that you discover by, by the doing. Awesome, well, join us next time on. Just make art, for whatever the heck we decide to talk about then.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being here. If you're taking notes, send us questions and I know that there is going to be a moment where we're going to talk about your questions on here, where we're going to take questions and look at them, the arguments, the disagreements, the agreements, and we'll, and Nathan and I will discuss them on an episode for sure and walkthrough. Yep, go make art, bye, bye.