What is the best way to get gallery representation ? How do you approach galleries ? How do you start again in the studio after a show debuts ? How do you know when you're finished with the piece ? The studio after a show debuts ? How do you know when you're finished with the piece ? These questions and more will be answered today in our Q&A episode of Just Make Art Ty .
Speaker 1This is going to be fun . We've decided we've been on this for a little while we decided to throw it out there and we now have enough people listening to actually have some questions . So thank you to everybody who submitted questions . We've got a really fun list that we have kind of cherry-picked and chosen from . But we're going to get into some pretty fun topics and questions and we've kind of broken these down into kind of three main categories . A lot of them are business-related , some are in the sort of art-making , sort of more philosophy , and then the third is kind of more technical as far as like process and how to make the work itself . So we're going to kind of jump in .
Speaker 1I'm going to give a disclaimer that I don't know what the hell I'm doing and I'm perfectly comfortable with that . I am a decided beginner . Professional amateur is what I like to call myself . You are the resident expert in the equation , so we're going to toss a lot of these to you to kick things off . But I say that kind of tongue in cheek , right ? I could think that part of being a professional amateur is the professional part , right ? Like being a student of the game , being somebody who , if I've got a strength in that area , it's I'm a learner . I'm always reading , looking up , you know . Listen to podcasts , you know . Watching YouTube videos , asking people , right , so hungry for knowledge is a good place to be , even if you're not an actual expert .
Speaker 1So , with that in mind , let's jump into our first question for the episode . This one comes from Spencer Welch and actually paired well with kind of two similar questions , another one from Maria Lopez . But the fundamental gist of the question is what's the best way to get into gallery representation ? To get gallery representation and I'm going to read the rest of Spencer's question too I'm torn between selling my own work on my website while doing group and solo shows and working towards gallery representation . So far , it seems the best thing to do is to continue painting , apply for shows and build relationships . However , in the meantime , what do I do with all the work that's accumulating ? Can I sell it online or should I hold it for future shows and galleries ?
Speaker 2How many of us are asking that question regularly ? Out there , everybody .
Speaker 1Hands are all raising in the room .
Speaker 2Yeah , nathan , this is such a good question . It's one that all of us ask at some time or another and will continue to ask and continue to ask throughout your whole career , even when you have representation . You're continuing to ask yourself how do I get more galleries , how do I get more shows ? And I know the hard and frustrating thing of working and working and painting and creating . And I think she answered a great question herself by saying so far , it seems like the best thing to do is continue painting . And I know Spencer . I love Spencer . She's a fantastic painter and individual who doesn't live far from me here in Waco , so we've hung out a few times and , yes , keep painting and creating and making . And there's so many quotes on things like the artists who are working all the time are the ones that get a head up on other artists who aren't working all the time . So , yes , paint , have your head down , sculpt , take photos . Whatever you're doing as an artist or creative , keep making art all the time .
Speaker 2But looking for gallery representation is very hard and it really ensues a lot of patience , a lot of time , a lot of research and a lot of footwork , all of those things . So you need to really set goals for where you want to be , when you want to be there , timing look at your dream galleries . Where do you want to go ? Sure , have those off in the distance , but then start peeling back . Look local first . What galleries are local ? Then kind of look at other places that are further out . But you also have to know do you fit ? Does your work fit in that gallery ? Are you at that level yet ? How are they ? How was the work priced ? Are you even close ? You got to kind of do some research to figure out how you fit price-wise . But does your work fit in that space ? Who have they shown over the last two or three years ? What artists are on their roster or their stable ? Is their artist similar to you or have work like yours ? Well , maybe you're not a good fit if there's three artists who work as like yours already . Do they show abstract work and you're an abstract artist ? Are you a figurative painter like Spencer ? Find where you fit in those places . Then make a list . Then you got to start dating and courting them . You need to follow them on Instagram . You need to see the things they're doing . You have to kind of show up . You have to be there . Go to their shows . If you can't be there , make sure you're commenting and following everything they're doing . Comment like stuff .
Speaker 2Don't send DMs , don't send blind emails with your work . Take some time to court these galleries and follow them and wait for them to interact with you . Once they interact with you , now interact back . Hey , I'd love to send you a catalog of my work . Hey , the next time you're driving through Waco , I do this , stop by . I'd love to have a studio visit .
Speaker 2Studio Zoom visits are a really big thing right now . Once you have interaction with a gallery or a dealer or somebody , invite them for a 15-minute Zoom . Show them your studio , the work you're working on . Have a conversation with them . Don't dominate the conversation . Let them talk , let them ask questions and then at that point , who knows what happens ? They say it takes 15 to 18 times for somebody to remember you on social media 15 to 18 times seeing your name , seeing your work , seeing things , before they actually remember it .
Speaker 2So be persistent , but don't be really overloaded . Don't overload them with things and network . You got to network . You got to go to shows . You've got to meet artists . You have to interact with other artists on Instagram . Get to know them . Find those things . It's tedious Spreadsheets , build spreadsheets out .
Speaker 2You've got to follow up where you're already going out . So many things to do on this end and you have to do business stuff as an artist . That is part of business . You want to be a good artist . You need to be a good business person to keep track of who you're trying to get into . What shows are they doing ? Where are they going ? Do you fit ?
Speaker 2Get to a show comment . You got a court . You got a date . Maybe someday you'll get married or maybe they're not the right partner at the end of the day , but there's a lot that goes into it . At the end of the day . You got a network and you got a research period . So in the meantime , spencer and everybody else open calls . You got to get into some group shows . You need to build that resume out to show that you're actively doing things and actively participating in the art world for those galleries you want to be in to maybe take a chance on you someday . So plenty of open call websites out there for group shows and juried competitions and things that you can apply to . Just search calls for art and you will get a list of things that you can apply to . Just search calls for art and you will get a list of websites that you can either subscribe to , or there are ones that are also free . Start entering that work that you have in your backlog into group shows and things like that .
Speaker 1Yeah , that , actually pairs well with Maria Lopez , had a question that was very similar , but the follow-up to that question was or is it better to find other ways to sell your art ? That was part of Spencer questions as well . Torn between selling my own work on my website , and so I think that's an important thing to consider as well is what's the goal ? Right , Is the goal to just not just , but is the goal to sell more work ? Because then the question of does it make sense to sell it yourself or work the gallery ? That's a whole nother type of question to ask , right ? So is the primary goal to sell more work or is it to establish your name and sort of progress from that perspective ? So maybe , if you could speak to even the question before the question , which is why would I or may I not , you know , even want to work with a gallery if sales is a goal , for example , yeah , and you know , if you get into a gallery , the standard commission for galleries 50% , right .
Speaker 2So the gallery is going to get 50 and you're going to get 50 . And I'm fine with that because that gallery owner , that director , they're working for me , they're doing sales , they're doing marketing , they're doing the business side . That allows me the ability to be in the studio and make more work . But I know lots of artists who are like I don't want to give up 50% . So you need to ask yourself those questions what am I willing to give up for somebody else to do work on my behest , to get my work out there ? Now , if you want to get your work out in the art world , then the gallery world is really that direction you want to go .
Speaker 2No-transcript purchase
. But there are things outside of the digital realm that can draw people to your work . You can do an open studio tour at your house and invite your community and set up a room that's an art show in your garage . I've had friends do it outside , set your work up , invite people to your space to look at art and offer them a studio discount on your work when they come in to see it there . You can offer selling studies works on paper at a really low cost $50 , $45 for your Instagram followers just to move . Some work to buy more supplies , some work to buy more supplies . You have to think out of the box and do things to draw people to you , but also put yourself out in the digital world in a way that draws people towards you . You're going out and looking and finding ways for people to find you even more . Does that answer anything ? I don't know .
Speaker 1I think so . Yeah , no , that's fine . I'll put a little dash of professional amateur on this . I would say to your last point , I do think it's very important to realize that as artists , we are independent business owners and the definition of the word owners . It's on us to figure out how to get our name and get our work in front of people , and I think that whether we have galleries representing us and doing some of that marketing for us or not , it's either . Both paths lead back towards , like it's on us to be our own self-promotion , like , hey , I'm still here , like you mentioned , 15 to 18 times .
Speaker 1People have to see us our work more than just once to actually register . Oh , that's so-and-so's work , and this might be somebody that I might be interested in representing or working with , and so I think that the business work , the shit work , as it's called , part of that is doing the dance . You know what I mean . On social media , I have taken a little bit of a I don't know how different of a path , but I have created opportunities and opportunities that presented themselves because of the time that I've spent putting myself out there and showing up consistently on Instagram , which is something that I kind of like occasionally , but for the most part it's like crap . Here's what am I going to do today . There are aspects of it that I like , but it's not my favorite thing . It's just something that I have found is really important . So we have to be willing to be our own best marketers and promoters before someone else is going to do it for us , and probably even after we have somebody else or somebody else's that they're doing it for us .
Speaker 2Absolutely , and there's a lot of and or in this , because when you're starting out , you're going to be trying to do look for galleries and sell your work . Yeah , because , at the end of the day , in order to keep making work for some of us with our part-time jobs or full-time jobs , we've got to still sell art in order to pay for supplies or pay for our studio or to save up to get a studio , those type of things . So there is the and involved . I need to sell work on my website and research to find galleries that I fit in , but all the while , just like Spencer said , we have to keep making and making and making . And if you make some pieces that you feel are so strong that you want to hold those and not sell them in order to present them to a gallery at some point , that's fine . But at the end of the day , galleries know that artists evolve and grow . If they look at your resume and see that you've been making art for three years and there's some pieces they're really interested in and you have sold them , that's no big deal , that's fine . You can still show a gallery work that you've sold If you have a catalog or you have something you're sharing with a gallery .
Speaker 2You're going to share your strongest work , the work that you're most confident and most proud of . That fits with what they're doing . If all 10 of those pieces that you have in that catalog have all sold , we'll just put underneath them that they're the property of the Turborg family , or it's the Clark family estate that owns this painting , whatever , and they'll know that these pieces are sold . That's fine . That's okay , because they know you're going to be making more work . Because they've also , if they've , reached out and want to see your work . They've looked at your website , they've looked at your Instagram page and they've seen something that impresses them . Is it your work and your work ethic ? Is it your work and your studio practice ? It's probably going to be a combination of things with your work , so it's okay to show work that's already sold .
Speaker 1Yeah , and I'm going to maybe take a little bit different spin on this . I would say , probably a similar thing , but I would add to that you haven't made your best work yet . Absolutely I haven't made my best . Hopefully , none of us have right . I mean , that's a big part of what we're chasing , and so I think that when it comes from a place of , when the art making process comes from a place of abundance , like I'm going to keep making more work , I'm going to keep making better work versus scarcity , which is , oh , this is the best thing that I've made and I'm not suggesting that this is where Spencer's coming from here . I'm just creating a whatever straw person to knock down in this argument . But the whole idea of scarcity , of like oh what if I don't ever make anything this good again to where I wouldn't want to get rid of it I think that's worth commenting on . That approach of like I'm going to keep making more and I'm going to keep making better , I mean I think it's important to and I'm going to keep making better , you know , I mean I think it's important to . This is a very useful exercise that I sort of whatever subconsciously engaged in recently when I got a bunch of work back from a show , rather , that I had made . Now it's been two years and I hadn't been around it for over a year , yeah , and I remember how Some of it's actually sitting behind me here . I remember how I felt about it at the time Like man this is really , and I still feel good about . You know most of it , but there's other pieces where it's just like man I've . I have blown way past that you know since then . So I think that that perspective of abundance is very , very helpful .
Speaker 1Our next question comes from one of our recent guests , in fact our only co guest sorry , guest co-host . There it is on the show so far , eric Breisch . And Eric wrote how do you start again in the studio after a show debuts ? What gets your creative fire lit ? I will take this as a chance for a shameless plug to say that if you've not listened to the episode with Eric , please go ahead and do so . I'm going to go ahead and take first crack at this one , ty , because I happen to know that in the time between Eric sending us this question and our recording today , he's already posted new work , and I think the caption of one of them was I had some ideas continuing through from the first show that still had more to say or something to that effect , and so I think that Eric's done a lot more . He's had many more shows than
me .
Speaker 1But one thing that I've learned with my most recent show is that , knowing from previous experience how heavy that can be to come back to an empty studio and you exposed me to V's post-Artem depression , that idea of not obviously having giving birth myself , but knowing about what that , you know what that can feel like . It is like you know , we've put , we've put , we've we've birthed something into the world . Right , we put a show together . Here's everything you know .
Speaker 1And so , coming back to that empty studio , not sure , kind of kind of what's next , one of the things that I did with my most recent show and I'm super glad that I did was I started way more pieces than I would was ever going to have a chance to finish , you know , before the show . So , coming back , you know I had have 1518 pieces that are all in various states of , you know , not not yet complete . That either needed more time and some of some of which I think are actually stronger , at least stronger starts , than some of the work that ended up in the show , but I knew that I just wasn't going to have time to give them what they needed to get across the finish line . So I'm a big fan and this is something that is part of my regular practice going forward , I'm a big fan of always having more started than is going to get finished for the show , because I can tell you , when I came back after this recent show , it was really fun to be like all right , now I can actually .
Speaker 1There's one diptych in particular that was like now I can actually sit with you and give you the time that you deserve , and you know this too right . Some pieces just jump across the finish line . They're ready , the idea is fully formed and you know how you're going to execute on it and take it home . Others just need more time . So that would be my two cents . Is the creative fire is already lit .
Speaker 1It's just a matter of those embers are still burning and coming back to pieces that are already in progress , and then we just need to throw a little oxygen on them to get things moving . And then the act of making and putting new things across the finish line , with the additional perspective , with a chance to actually sit and have experienced the show in its entirety and realize what it's . Sometimes it takes that right . Sometimes you have to see all of your work together in the form of a show to realize what the show is actually about and how to process , what to take forward and what you're excited , which elements you're interested in continuing to speak on .
Speaker 2Yeah , this is something I've experienced so often that post-show just down , that emotional drop . I really struggle with it . I've always struggled with it . I still struggle with it . I think how we respond is going to be different for every artist because obviously we all have different personalities .
Speaker 2Being an Enneagram 4 and a feeler , I have really big ups and down swings across things and I think when you're creating for a show , we thrive because there's pressure , there's deadlines , there's musts have to get this done and we're able to really buckle down as artists and just grind out work and get it done for some of us , eight hours a day , some of us 14 to 16 days , depending how backed up against the deadline you are with your work . And I think you have this pressure , pressure , pressure , build , build , build , excitement , excitement . You have the show where it's still going up and you're interacting with so many people and you're seeing your work on the walls and you have a multitude of emotions with that . Oh , not really loving that piece anymore . Wow , this one's speaking to me more than I thought . I wish I would have been able to do these few pieces . Or this is perfect , everything just looks fabulous , they curated it so well . It's different emotions and then it's over . It's literally there's a hard stop , right . Then you have and the hard stop is before the end of the run of the show . The hard stop is there and then the show ends and you get the work back and you have this .
Speaker 2Now what ? Yep , right . And so for me , I've kind of learned I need a break . I need to go away to come back , right , as I think Jerry States and one of his , jerry salts , one of his books .
Speaker 2Sometimes you need to go away to come back and I know it's also in Steven Pressfield and our and he talks about it too Sometimes we need to breathe in order to recover , yeah . So it's like I kind of get away and do something that kind of fills my soul a little bit , to come back into the studio . I learned , if I try to go right back in and start making making it's a different atmosphere than what I just experienced over the last two or three months and I really struggle with it . So I kind of get some soul care before I go back into the studio . In whatever form that may be it could be a trip , a vacation , it could just be getting to some museums and looking at work , going and doing some things and then coming back in and kind of starting afresh again . But it is a very difficult thing .
Speaker 1It really is . I mean it's , it's , it's I don't know why this is the word that comes to mind but it's almost like a spooky kind of feeling to come back to the studio after you haven't been in it for a while , especially having lived I mean , I don't know about you , but having lived in it for the previous couple of months probably , or pretty darn close , you know what I mean . Like there's so many times where it was like man , I hope I can make the 12 minute drive home because I'm so exhausted and maybe I'll just spend the night sleeping on my sleeping bag that I usually just nap on here . So there's that spooky feeling of coming back and actually having the space to breathe . But just , it's the place where everything happened and now it's it's kind of done but there's still more to be done .
Speaker 1I think I I you reminded me of something as you were talking , but I think there's a lot of value in taking that time to sort of clean the clean your space , reorganize the space , kind of like hit the reset button . Um , that for me is like there you go . That , for me , is how I get reacquainted with the things that are in progress , with the understanding I don't have to touch them , I don't have to do anything with them . I'm just going to , like , get reacquainted and say hello , how have you been ? And decide , you know , if uh , if the relationship is uh , is one that needs to be continued , and if so , how soon ?
Speaker 2Yeah , and for me , I put so much pressure on myself to continue to grow and develop with each body of work I do . So you know my wife , mandy , always gets mad at me because once I finish a body of work in my head it's old and I don't want to show it again . Or if I've shown it somewhere I don't want to ever show it again somewhere else , type of thing , which I think that's a personal thing for me . I'm not saying to do that . Any opportunity you have to show work , get it out there , show it . But I kind of have this pressure of no , it's already old work , I don't want to show it .
Speaker 2I got to create a whole new idea . I got some new ideas to move , and I think that pressure harms me at times when I come back into the studio because maybe the work is still telling me there's more to work out here . But I come back into the studio because maybe the work is still telling me there's more to work out here , but I come into the empty space because it's now empty , because all that work's gone , and out the door and then I go oh , now what ? Uh , okay , new ideas , let's go , and maybe I need to do a little bit more processing in that time too , to go .
Speaker 2Are there questions that I didn't solve in the last group of work that I can continue to solve , and this is part of just evolving in the studio . You're learning yourself , too as an artist and how you operate in the studio as much as you're learning about making your work . So I guess what I'm trying to say is spend time after that moment thinking about how you can grow as an artist Each time you come to that down post-show depression and think through yourself as the artist person just as much as you're thinking about the work . I think I need to do that a little more is what I'm saying .
Speaker 1I love that . I mean , I think all of this comes back to . This could be the postscript to every answer to every question that we're going to address when we do these episodes . It's like the answer is it depends . Yeah , you know , there's no such thing as anything remotely close to a straight line from point A to point B in the art world , so it's going to depend wildly , person to person and season to season , right , like what might work for somebody , what might ? What I just claimed is like my answer to this question that worked this last time may fall woefully short the next time I try to implement it . So there's no guarantees .
Speaker 1I really like what you said , though I kind of want to unpack this idea more that you mentioned it , because the idea of questions to solve , problems to solve I didn't realize it until you said it , but that's exactly what it is . That's exactly what it is for me is realizing . Like you know , when I get stuck on something while preparing for a show , like there's a , there's a roadblock here and I don't have the , I don't have all the pieces that I that I need to sort of solve it . Yeah , but I know that I will at some point in the future , and so that's the way I think about . Every time I introduce a new material , a new technique or integrate them in different ways , every time I'm just making art . I'm getting a little bit closer to having an answer to all of these little sets of problems and challenges that are sitting all over the place .
Speaker 1So I think there's some peace of mind , though , to be gained from that of just knowing like , all right , I don't have the answers yet , but as long as I keep working and as long as I keep sitting with it you spoke to that as well but just the process of spending time . So , again , it depends . There's no straight line . It's going to be different for everybody , different times . But the one thing one of the few things that I and I think I speak for both is when I say we will hang our hat on and say this is good for most of us , almost every single time is sitting with it , journaling , listening , just checking in , like where am I at with this and what can I do ? What does it make sense to address going forward ?
Speaker 2Yeah , you know an artist shouldn't just make the work and walk away from it , Right , you know you shouldn't just make it hang it , then it's done . Like I go back to work I've done five , six , seven years ago and look at it still , you know what I mean . If it's in my studio , I take time to pull it out and look at it and think of where I was and how I've gotten to where I am .
Speaker 2And sometimes I go oh wow , I forgot about that idea , I hadn't even explored that yet but part of growing and becoming an educated artist I'm not talking a snobby artist , overconfident , cocky , educated , knowing why you do what you do , what you're doing and how you're doing it . Spend time looking , look at I mean , that's why we go . Look at art , that's not ours to study it . Look at it . How are they doing it , why are they doing it ? It informs us . It informs our work .
Speaker 2But we need to do that with our work as well , Not just others work . We need to sit and take that time , meditate on it , have those spiritual moments with our work where we're really looking at it and studying the composition , studying our technique , studying our texture . That's going to help you . When you have the opportunity someday , maria Spencer , when you're in a gallery and you're asked to give a lecture or an artist talk , you're going to be so confident in talking about your work because you spent time not just making it , but you spent time thinking about it and looking at the work , studying it yourself , so that you're able to answer easy questions , difficult questions about your work , because we're going to get the multitude of all those . So , if I can encourage , if both of us can encourage any of you out there spend time really , really , looking at your work and talking to it .
Speaker 1Yeah , love it All right , let's move on to our next question from Robin Jack
Sarner .
Speaker 2RJ .
Speaker 1Here we go . My question and this is actually really well-timed because it actually pairs well with kind of this is like the next level of the first question that we addressed . So Robin writes what does one do when they have all the pieces in place but don't know anyone , Even after rubbing elbows at a lot of receptions and have a solo show up ? It seems the art world is an iceberg . We just see the tip , but there are there's so much more below press , curatorial , collector and gallerist relationships that are hard to break into .
Speaker 1I am in the now what phase help as all caps . So I'm going to just make a tongue in cheek comment and then I'll turn it over to you . I think we're all in the now what phase . You're going to give a proper answer to this question , but I'm saying that sarcastically , but also I mean that sincerely . I think that nobody knows what the hell they're doing or what . We're all just trying to figure it out as we go . And so I think that my point of saying that is to be encouraging and say like , hey , we're all in the now what phase , and I think that if you're not , you're probably a little too cocky or you're probably just not growing right , Like we're supposed to be in the now what phase , like that's the thing that leads us to searching for and finding the answers and getting the experience that we need to get from wherever we're at to wherever we're trying to go . Okay , Now over to you , Ty , for a proper answer .
Speaker 2Well , and to be even more encouraging on top of that is every artist journal that I've read , every selected essays , writings from artists from art history , have all said no , what ? All of them ? There isn't one that hasn't said did it got it all figured out ? I mean reading Joe Miro . He's like what am I , how do I do this ? Everything's happening in Paris . I'm stuck in Barcelona , I'm stuck in Spain , right , and it's like now . Now , what do I do ? I just made all these paintings this summer , 26 years old , 1921 . I just did these paintings . Now , what do I do ? I don't know what to do . So it's like that's Joe Miro , right , saying that who's now in every museum there is on the planet . But and knowing RJ a little bit , she just made a move , right , made a move , with everything moved to LA , getting her work out there . You're doing the right things , rj , but here's the answer that nobody wants to hear .
Speaker 2Art takes time . The art world takes time . Getting our work to the period where people see it , the right people see it and take notice , takes time . Continuing to build work that does draw attention takes time . Rubbing elbows , networking , going to shows takes time . Takes time Rubbing elbows . Networking . Going to shows takes time , right ? We talk a lot about go see shows . What gallery do you want to be in ? Where your work fits now , not where your work fits in 10 years . Where does your work fit today ? Now , and why is it a good fit for that gallery ? Start going to that gallery and getting to know everybody . Just hang out , go sit there . That takes time . You can't just do it four times and then stop doing it .
Speaker 2And I'm not saying that RJ does this . These are things that we need to be doing as artists if we want to take those next jumps . Get to know the studio managers , get to know the directors , get to know the curators over time , because when you build a relationship , you're being sincere about that entire relationship . There's a lot of artists I've seen it , I've watched it visiting galleries , walking in and asking hey , can I show you my work ? Well , now , it's all about you . It's not about this partnership and this relationship between you and the gallery . When you go in with a me focus , get me in here . I need to be in here . You want to see my work , want to do a studio visit ? Hey , can I bring my work in ? It's in the car . It's all about you . The best gallery relationship is a partnership between you and that gallery .
Speaker 2How do you know you're a good fit , if your work fits , if you don't get to know everybody that works in that gallery , including the other artists who were represented in that gallery ? I just did this the other night . There's a gallery I want to be in so bad and I happen to be really fortunate that the gallery director reviewed my work a few months ago . Now I'm not going to blindly just reach out and go hey , you reviewed my work , I think I'm a good fit . I do think I'm a good fit . I'm confident I'm a good fit . How do I answer ? I'm a great fit . Now , why is my work important for you to represent now ?
Speaker 2Well , I started doing research . I researched him , the work he loves , where he's come from , what shows have they shown in the last three years ? What exhibitions ? Who's on the roster ? I started following the artists I really loved on the roster and found out four of them are following me already . Well , that's a good sign . I had no idea , didn't know that , and so now I'm putting together ideas of how can I make a good pitch to this gallery . What is the best way to do it . Well , for the last four or five months I've followed them religiously . They're in my favorites on Instagram so that I don't miss their posts .
Speaker 2I comment on the shows . I put little gifts . I talk to them about oh wow , that work of art you just put up is incredible . Can't believe that shows . I wish I was in New York to see it Building conversation . And now I see them starting to heart my comments . Right , that relationship starting . We talked about that earlier on .
Speaker 2But , rj , you are reaching out to press . You are reaching out to curators . You're starting to build relationships . You're putting yourself out there because you and I have talked about it and I've seen you do it . You're putting yourself out there a lot more than a lot of artists . I . You're on the right track .
Speaker 2It just unfortunately takes a long time . Some artists are very lucky and it's a shorter time , but there's time involved . It's not automatic . So show up , reach out , stay persistent , especially if you're looking for press and things . Press gets so much stuff they're bombarded . Don't just say hey , will you write about my show ? You need to talk about why it's important for them to talk about your show and don't just email . Gosh , we're so used to just emailing today for press and those things .
Speaker 2Show up . If it's an LA times writer who covers art , show up . Do they have an office ? No , well , maybe invite them , for can I bring you a cup of coffee ? Are you in the office at all ? If it's a news channel and you want to be on the news , I've worked in PR back in the day and I'll tell you anytime . I've consulted with small businesses who are trying to do get really good press and PR , especially local news . Who will cover local stories at five o'clock or Saturday mornings or whatever . Show up to the actual studio with a box of cookies or muffins , something .
Speaker 2Hey , I'd love to talk to the producer who covers art and be prepared to give a really good pitch . Why should they cover you ? Well , I'm a local artist . I have my first show coming up at a local gallery . I'm talking about this . This is my story . This is where I'm from .
Give a really good pitch . You can almost guarantee they're going to do a story on you . But we settled into this . Let's just email and wait . Mindset man , send the email but show up as well . Knock on the door , do what you have to do but bring a gift , bring an offering and you may get a no . But just like Sylvia Plath says , all my rejection letters tell me that I'm trying . If you're not getting rejected , you're not trying .
Speaker 1I don't know why I'm thinking about this , but this ad campaign hasn't been going for 20 years . But the old maybe more the old Tootsie Roll Pop , like , how many licks does it take to get to this ?
Speaker 2Oh , yeah , the grand old owl .
Speaker 1Right . And so it's like how many elbow rubs does it take to get to wherever you're trying to go ? More than one , more than one , probably more than yeah , right . So it's volume , right . It's repetition , right . It's how many seeds can we plant over time , only a fraction of which are going to come to fruition ? But that's enough , right , we have to plant . I mean , the more seeds we plant , the more that have a chance to become something .
Speaker 2And Nathan , we've talked about this , you and I . How bad do you want it ? How bad do you want it ? Right , and I will say this as an encouragement to RJ I see that you want it , I know that you want it and you're going after it , and you were doing a lot more than a lot of than a lot of other artists are doing to say I want this and going out and trying to get it . So keep on your path , rj , keep doing what you're doing . It takes time . It's the answer Nobody wants to hear , but it's the answer that artists really need to settle in with and say okay , I understand , this takes time , I'm going to keep going and doing it because I want this so bad , and all the while , like Spencer said in the beginning , keep making art all the time I love that Next question comes from Ron Smith .
Speaker 1Yep , did you have something ?
Speaker 2No , not at all , and I think this is a great question , even just leading up after RJ's , because we talk about keep making art , keep making art . Be in the studio , paint , paint , paint , sculpt , whatever you're doing . Great question , nathan when do you know when you're finished with a piece ?
Speaker 1Yeah , and Ron , I love Ron . I happen to know Ron from the old Clubhouse days and he makes a lot of really cool both abstract and figurative work and combines the two as well . I think that for me and this just speaks to what you're saying , ty , about having a relationship with the work and I would say more specifically from my personal perspective , having a relationship to the process of making the work and all the things that happen between starting fresh and okay , this is done . The more connected I am to that , the deeper that bond is between myself and the process of making the work . Then that leads to a stronger connection between me and the work . And I think that when I have that connection and that relationship and that's to a stronger connection between me and the work , and I think that when I have that connection and that relationship and that's how I think about it it's a relationship that we have with each and every piece . At least I think it should be like that . I don't want to use that should word , but it is for me anyway
.
Speaker 1My best work comes when I feel like I've got a connection to , obviously , what it is that I'm making . And so when we are in conversation with the work . When I'm in conversation with the work , there just comes that magical point where it's like okay , that's it . And I'm surprised in both directions all the time . So frequently I've got my idea about where I'm looking to take something , and I'll leave the studio one night thinking , all right , maybe a little tweak here and there , but this one's pretty much done , and then I'll sit with it the next morning or whatever , a week later and be like all right , I got to blow this up , not literally , but there's a big change that I just feel compelled to make . And so I think listening and being open to receive that feedback or what I think that piece has to say , is really , really helpful .
Speaker 1And , to my point , I think that getting surprised , being open to being surprised in the opposite direction , is also really important . I personally , I know myself well enough to know I've got a tendency to to overwork things , and so one thing I have to remind myself is to to be to have my antenna up , to listen and be willing to be done sooner , or to or to let , to let a lot of certain space , you know , be and to be quieter , or to quiet something down , right . So all of those things , things . But the simple answer would be I know I'm finished with a piece when there's nothing else that I think that it has to say right , if I am acting in service of the work , that's when it's working or when the process is working for me .
Speaker 2Yeah , I've learned that . The second I'm concerned with finishing a piece I've already lost and I feel like through my studies and through my reading and research , I've heard countless artists say if you're going into the studio to finish a work of art , you've already done yourself a disservice . You've already stopped short of the finish line , Because at that point we are mentally focused on creating a work that we're not really ready to create yet . Because our vision of the work right as they say in Art and Fear , as Ted Orlin and David Bayless say your vision is always ahead of execution , because you're only as good today as what you know how to do today . Right , everything you do today is getting you better than you were yesterday . So in our head we have this vision of a finished work . What we want this finished work to look like in our head but we're really not that good yet is what it looks like in our head . So so by saying , oh , I got to go in and really finish this piece today , You're not there yet anyways .
Speaker 2And so I've kind of learned to let the work speak to me and tell me that she's finished , and usually it's when I feel like I need to add a whole lot more . It's kind of the work screaming back to me stop , stop , take a minute . Because anytime I feel like man , it just needs a lot more and I start adding a lot more . It's done , it's ready for the burn right , it's ready for the burn bin , it's ready to be de-cooning and thrown out of ninth street window , five stories up into the street , because I just overworked it . Ninth street window , five stories up into the street , because I just overworked it .
Speaker 1This is where I would absolutely make a case for having multiple pieces going at a time . Absolutely yeah , because some work is ready to speak up the next day after a good night's sleep and some work is going to be a little bit more reluctant to give up its secrets and reluctant to speak up . Reluctant to give up its secrets and reluctant to speak up . Or let's just take ownership of our side of the street . Maybe we're not ready to hear what it has to say or in a place where we can pick up on that particular frequency .
Speaker 1So this would be my case , for , again , there aren't a lot of things I'm going to say hey , but if possible , if it's viable for you to have multiple works going at a time , I think that's . One of the best benefits of that is that when not if , but when we get stuck on any particular one , there's not the oh crap . Well , if I can't figure this out , then I guess there's nothing for me to do today . It's no , okay , cool , you need a minute , so do I . It's like a relationship we just need a minute .
Speaker 1So do I . It's like a relationship . We need a little space . I'm going to spend some time with this one over here and to our earlier point , maybe I'll pick up a little bit of vocabulary , maybe I'll pick up some information and be able to solve a problem on this one over here that I can then take back to the one that maybe we're stuck on .
Speaker 2Well , and I was in a discussion earlier , the one that maybe we're stuck on . Well , and I was in a discussion earlier today before you , and I hopped on with one of the artists that I'm currently mentoring , fernando Rivera from Mexico , and we were talking about this . Right , there's those moments where you're exploring , you're experimenting , you're evolving and nothing just seems like it's going and you don't feel like you're really finishing anything . You're not sure where you're going and there's that big frustration of messiness in your head because you want to go to B , but you're really going to still be stuck at a for a while . You know , and I'm using the alphabet because to even get to see might be a year , might be two years , so just even the next letter of the alphabet is really difficult to get to when you're constantly creating in the studio , right ?
Speaker 1And so you may . You may go camp out on R for a while and then take a little detour over to W . You know what I mean . Like it's not . Even just the idea that we could go from A to B is kind of absurd when you really think about it .
Speaker 2And so I , you know , I told her one of the things I do , right Is you're always trying to discover a muse while you're working is start looking at some artists Like listen , we were talking about Tracy Emin today , who absolutely moves Fernanda in some ways as she was watching her work and talk about some pieces recently on YouTube . But it gave her that muse , right , it gave her that excitement of oh my gosh , yeah . And then she was back to the canvas , right , not worrying about finishing a piece , but taking that little bit of a muse of inspiration from Tracy and Tracy Emin talking about her work and working on a piece and watching her work in the studio , to jump back in again and not worry about finishing but work out , working on experimenting and growing and moving past where you were yesterday . So that's something that I do regularly that really works for me to help when those moments where I feel a little stuck , a little boxed in .
Speaker 1I have found a very useful governing principle for me , sort of a mantra is everything leads to the next thing .
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely .
Speaker 1Not just the things that I can see leading to the next thing , but everything . See leading the next thing , but everything . And it's not my job , it's not our job as artists , to know what's going to lead where or to be able to connect the dots specifically from . Oh , this little detour that I made on W is actually what I needed to do to get back to B , right , yep , it is our responsibility , it is our job to trust that everything we do , even and I would even argue , especially the things that don't make any sense and don't really go anywhere in and of themselves , are still leading us down a path to where we're meant to be .
Speaker 2Yeah , and man that brings up such a great point from Joe Miro that obviously I've talked about a little bit today , because one of my favorite artists and I was reading I knew for sure .
Speaker 1I made a bet with myself that I have now won . I was like for sure he's going to bring up Miro's journals today .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , Absolutely .
Speaker 1I'm glad you didn't disappoint , so let me go ahead and pay myself here real quick .
There you go . So I was talking with a group of he's trying to finish two paintings and he says I've worked maybe a thousand times restarting and trying to finish these two paintings and it's a battlefield and I'm warring with myself . Then we fast forward two years later and he says I finally discovered that the artists who are doing things are working on multiple pieces at a time and I'm finding such joy in finding new problems every day when I work because we often think we have to fix okay problem , try and fix it , try and fix it and then 500 iterations later you still haven't fixed the problem .
Speaker 2And he's like by working on multiple pieces and understanding , I'm not trying to fix problems , I'm trying to create more problems . And the more problems I've creating , the more joy and discovery I'm finding . I just I love that and it took two years for him to get to that point .
Speaker 1In the journal dates but anyways , it's like being four years old and trying to reach something on a tall shelf and just be like I just can't quite get there yet , and just no , of course , at four years old you don't know this , but just I could have picked a better example , but I'm just going to go with it . I'm pot committed to this point . Coming back , you know , two years later three now I'm tall enough , right , Like it's just an inevitable result of time . Um , assuming , of course , that we are actively engaged in the game of continuing to grow and progress . Yep , but I , uh , I , I love that . I feel like we kind of covered that one . Let's move on .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1All right . So our next question comes from Flux Art Studio , who does not have a name in their bio , so we're just going to go with that . We will link everybody's Instagram profiles of the questions that we've shared so far in the show notes as well . If you want to go check out these artists' work , go check out these artists work . But Flux Art Studio says I work with multiple mediums and my art doesn't always look like the same artist has done the work . I'm not sure I could stick to one style or medium . I keep hearing and reading that if you want to sell your art , you need to pick a style or medium . I'm a curious artist and love exploring . How crucial is this to my art practice that I follow this ? Is it okay to be an artist that works in more than one style ?
Speaker 2I hear that question a lot , Nathan . I get that question a lot from a lot of artists . You've heard it from me ? Yeah , not that long ago .
Speaker 2And here's the answer . The answer is do what you want to do . There's nobody can tell you to do or not do what you make . Nobody , they can't , and anybody that's telling you you have to do this , you have to do this , you must do this , Follow this line . They're wrong . They don't know what they're saying . I'll be bold enough to say that's bullshit . That's just . Nobody should be telling you you have to do this , you need to fall in line , you need to create this way . No , you make your art period .
Speaker 2But then the next step is why are you making art ? What is your purpose ? Is your purpose just to make a ton of art because you love making ? It Is your purpose . I want to make a lot of art because I want to get into galleries and I really want to someday be in museums or whatever . Well then , you've got . You got to kind of find okay , I love doing portraiture and I love doing abstract pieces . Well , where is my strength lie ? Does it ? Does it lie in my portraiture ? Does it lie in my abstract pieces ? Is there a way for me to to combine abstraction with figurative pieces ? Are there ways to combine all these things I love into something that I'm going to put enough time and effort into to push out to the gallery world and meanwhile I'm still making these things .
Speaker 2Eric is a great example . Please go back and listen to the Eric Breisch episode that we just did . He tells his story of being stuck in one form of art for a while that he creates and then he really wanted to create some other ideas and things . Well , he just had a show open last week with the new ideas and new things combined with the things that made his name , the things that got him out into the art world . Please go back and listen to that episode because he talks about those things and that's coming from an artist who does like a multitude of artistic elements in his work and he loves doing collage , but he loves doing metal work and he loves working with glass all these ideas and culminations of things he loves . He just did a show with a combination of them . So I think that kind of answers your question a little bit .
But listen , I work in all kinds of mediums . I have bodies of work that are so different from one body of work to the next , even in a one-year period , and I do that purposely because it helps me evolve . It's breaking down areas where I'm stuck and it's helping me move into new areas , and usually that new change leads to a combination of both of those things or it leads to something totally new that I didn't even know existed before . And I've been able to show , with galleries , each of those styles , each of those things . So I would say , if you're really good at one of them , you're . You have a lot of strength of technique in one area . Try to develop it , but don't stop doing the other things . And I think that's with anything in life . If we're trying to go down 15 roads at one time , we're really watering down where we can go with one of those roads . Focus on what is the strongest or what you love the most , and put more time into that than you do the others , but don't stop doing the others 100% .
Speaker 1I don't have a lot to add to that other than just like hell , yeah , I mean , I think that I was right . One note that I made while you're talking there is like if the goal and we don't know right , like you kind of started with that , like we don't know exactly what everybody's goal is . So it all begins from that place of like what are you trying to do ? Okay , but let's just assume that the goal is to make your best work . That seems like a reasonable objective that we should , or probably are , all seeking in one way or another . If the goal is to make your best work , then the most direct path to getting there is to continue to make the work that you're excited about . Absolutely yes , to chase your curiosity If I'm doing anything well , it's that . Yeah , just personally , I don't have a lot of rules that I adhere to , but that's one of them . If I'm curious about something , I've got Spoiler alert . Spoiler alert , people care .
Speaker 1I have had this idea in my mind of what ? What would it work ? I've incorporated some metal into some of my work . But what would it be like to start casting metal , to start smelting some of these materials that I'm finding ? And so I finally was just like , all right , I got a big commission and kind of planted the seed , inception style , like , hey , you guys are going to want some copper in this right , and they said , yes , then I could justify buying everything I need to start melting . Well , the copper I've got , it's all the equipment .
Speaker 1But the point is , I think , that that idea was given to whatever ideas it is , that you're working with , those mediums , those different things . They were given to you for a reason . They were put in your head and in your heart for a reason and you've got to chase those down . Because , again back to our little alphabet metaphor , you may spend some time on a detour on T when you were trying to get to C . That's okay . That time spent there will give you answers to problems that you are encountering already or will encounter on the path towards making your best work .
Speaker 2Yeah , and don't stop playing with multiple mediums . I mean , good Lord , have as many media . Play with every single thing you can play with . I tell all the artists I work with never count a medium out ever until you've messed with it . Fill up that arsenal of technique and mediums to as many as you can think , because now you have even more things at your disposal to answer problems when they arise , right To discover new things in your work . The more you've played with , the more you've practiced , the more you've studied from that whole realm of the things we can control . What can we control in art ? We can control our medium and our technique . That those are the two things we can really control . We can play , practice , practice .
Speaker 2No , I love acrylic , I don't like oil . I love oil . I don't like acrylic . I love using chalk . I love gouache , I love watercolor . Can I combine gouache , watercolor and oil paints in a painting ? I don't know . Let's try it , let's see what happens . You have control over those things . You can't control your destiny in the art world . Right , there's some luck , there's some relationship building , there's networking , there's all these outer things that are part of that . But you can control what you're learning and how you're working , so try everything and I think that moves See what I did there that moves really good into our next question here from Austin Anahuri . I think I'm pronouncing it right .
Speaker 2Anahory , there you go , I think that's it . That looks good Sounds right-ish .
Speaker 2Yeah , austin says in a technically asked question what are good learning tools for practicing techniques ? I'm not sure if I phrased that right , but an example would be can I give myself an hour or 20 minutes to finish a painting , complete three small works in a week , while technique practices aren't meant to produce an amazing painting every time ? Looking for more tools and practices and challenges that help an artist learn and develop , I guess I need homework and I think , austin , you're answering yourself as you're actually giving the question , which I love because that means you're really thinking through it , which I love because that means you're really thinking through it . I still practice technique . I still play with new mediums . Youtube is an absolutely fantastic tool to go on and search certain techniques , because there are plenty of people coaching and teaching those things that you may , that one would learn in art school . You don't need art school to be an artist . Everybody . Sure , it's great , there's incredible foundational elements there , but you can learn from people who are professionals that teach you how to use oil paint correctly . What are the oils for ? What are different mediums ? How do these things work ? What's the difference between canvas and linen and hemp and cloth ? How do paints react to those different materials . I would say get on YouTube , start a playlist . That's just a techniques playlist . That's just a mediums playlist .
Speaker 2I've watched all of Corey D'Augustine on MoMA New York's how to paint videos . I've watched them all multiple times and he goes through painting terms like what is viscosity , and then walks through this is what viscosity is . This is what a lower viscosity looks like a is viscosity and then walks through this is what viscosity is . This is what a lower viscosity looks like a higher viscosity . He's talking terms and showing you how to do it . And then there's videos that how to paint like de Kooning , how to paint like Rothko . How did they do it ? What did they mix , what did they use , what were their gestures like ?
Speaker 2There's so much of that information out there that we should never and I'm not saying that this is Austin , this is me saying this , and I tell artists all the time you should never want , for you should never not be educating yourself constantly , because the tools at our disposal are everywhere . I've gone and gotten certificates online in art history because I love learning , found ones that cost $300 and get a certificate in post-war abstraction . You can get a certificate in how to oil paint Great educational resources out there . Youtube is an incredible resource . So I would say giving yourself an hour or 20 minutes to finish a painting we talked about that . Don't think about finishing a painting , just get in there and practice . One of my artists that I'm currently mentoring in Fort Worth , john Thomas , went to an art fair the Dallas Art Fair last week , saw a Marcel Rozek piece , who's a fantastic painter out of Southern California and really I would say an apprentice to the Frank Bowlings and the Maurice Lewis's and Frankenthalers and he's taken it to a whole different level with his style . John saw Marcel piece was blown away , took a picture , went home and tried to practice kind of doing that on small canvas . Marcel is an abstract painter , john is a figurative painter . He was so inspired by Marcel that he went home and started practicing some of those things that he saw .
Speaker 2How could I integrate this into my work ? Can I so practice ? That's a great thing . Just find the artists you love what are their techniques , how are they doing it and sit there and practice . I've done it for years . I still do it today . If I see something I love , I've practiced . How did Martha Youngworth in Austria , one of my favorite painters ? How does she get those little marks on the paper when she paints ? So I get a brush and I get tools and I practice , practice , practice , practice . Can I adapt this into my work ? How can I ? Yes , I can , and this is how I'm going to do it . So practice .
Speaker 1Yeah , I'll just add to that , to your point there's never been a better time to be self-taught at anything .
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely .
Speaker 1There's just an abundance of information out there . Thank you YouTube , Thank you podcast , Thank you books Even the fact that this isn't really technique-oriented necessarily . There's not a lot of this might not be a book-related thing necessarily , but the fact that you can get a person's lifetime's worth of wisdom and experience and knowledge for $17 on Amazon and have it wherever you buy your books , and have it on your doorstep or in your hands in a day or two , it's crazy . So being self-taught , the self part of that is important . It's up to you to go out and get that information .
Speaker 1You use the word homework . So if you are somebody who learns better when there is a linear progression and when there are things to do between different modules or lessons , I know people who I haven't personally used , but there's places like Udemy yeah , or just I think that's a pretty good one to but where it is like a sequential lessons for different technical skills that you may be looking to acquire with homework , you know in between . So if you are kind of wired more that way to do things in that sort of classroom or you know whatever students style fashion , that would be a good way , good place to start and to look , and there's some very reasonably priced courses that were all peer reviewed , you know , by the people that have taken them . That's worth checking out .
Speaker 1Patreon as well .
Speaker 2There's a lot of artists that are doing coaching and teaching how to art things on Patreon as well , so that's another . That's a way to also maybe support another emerging artist like yourself with a small monthly fee and learning how to use oil paints correctly , or you learning how to sculpt I know we've had a few questions about how do I even start sculpting and stuff . So it's like you know , maybe there's somebody that you can find that's going to teach you through some of those basics in inexpensive ways to get you started .
Speaker 1I love that and if and if price is an objection , I would encourage a person to set that next to the price of an MFA and just kind of see like from a cost . You know like it's . It's , yes , there's , there's an investment of all , but it's of a cost . Yes , there's an investment involved , but it's well worth it . Let's move on to our next question . This one comes from Leslie . Reine or Rennie . Do you know Leslie ?
Speaker 2I don't know , leslie , I think it's Reine .
Okay . Leslie writes . I have a question after listening to your Louise Bourgeois episode . There was so much discussion on art coming from heavy shit and past traumas . There was so much discussion on art coming from heavy shit and past traumas . What can you draw from if you've had a truly idyllic life ? I want to go deeper with my art , but I don't know where to dig .
Speaker 2I'm excited to hear what you think first and then I will take my yeah . No , this is a fantastic question because I've had this conversation with a lot of musicians , uh , actors , artists , and you know we do seem to know a lot more and focus a lot more on creators , artists , people in the creative arts who have had rough stories or rough backgrounds , Right . Um , I know that they tend to get a little more elevated at times because there's something to unpack on a podcast , right , or in the documentary . It makes a much more glued to the TV screen story if an artist has been through a really hard thing or addiction or things like that . And when you and I did our episode , we chose the episode because of the similarities between the whys about making our work that Louise Bourgeois has , and this in no way is meant to kind of put a line in the sand between those who've had fantastic lives , who haven't endured heavy trauma or haven't endured addictions or had to overcome a lot , haven't endured heavy trauma or haven't endured addictions or had to overcome a lot . I would say you are far more blessed to have lived a life where you haven't had to experience very , very difficult things . So I love this question , leslie , because that in no way means you don't have a lot to give or share with your work you do . You have just as much as the person who has dealt with trauma or been through hard things to share , because we all see the world in a different way because of how we have come through our life , from our childhood to adulthood . So we all need to share our experiences and what we've observed and what we've seen , whether it's from a beautifully idyllic life or a really tough , traumatic life . They're equal and they're sharing opportunities . So I would say and I have said this to people in the past what are those beautiful memories , what are those incredible memories that you've had in your life that you're just so thankful for and are so joyful and fantastic that you can share with the world in an artistic way ?
Speaker 2Gosh , there's so much ugliness around us right now . There's ugliness everywhere . Share the beauty , give us some beauty . That's why I got into doing floral stuff for a while with Prince , because , man , I just needed a bouquet of flowers handed to myself . Sometimes you just got to give yourself something too . So what can you offer us ? That is a form of beauty , a form of joy , a form of let's celebrate things rather than we're always being bombarded with ugliness and political divisiveness . And this person hates this person and this relationship ended because they disagree so vehemently on things . And , man , I think , leslie , just dig into journaling , as we've talked about , and thinking through those moments in life and those beautiful things that have brought you so much joy , and dig there , start digging there and see what blooms and what blossoms .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 1So when I saw this question , ty , I think what came to mind for me was because Leslie states the goal of I want to go deeper with my art , but I don't know where to dig .
Speaker 1So , with the goal being going deeper with the art , I think that I mean what comes to mind for me is , you know , the inspiration to do that or the motivation , whatever the source material that is everywhere . You know you are still living life , you're still having your personal experience , and so , again , like the whole comparative , you know , oh , my stuff is different , worse , better , whatever , like , your stuff is still your stuff . You know , I'm fairly certain you're still a human being with , you know , emotions and challenges and things that are happening . So whether or not the work is about that , necessarily , whether there's a narrative that drives the work , I mean that's up to you , right . But as far as going deeper , there's always more source material around to Ty's point , whether it be in the world or in you personally . So I mean , kind of a simple answer , but keep digging . When I think too , nathan , leslie is an simple answer , but you know , keep digging .
Speaker 2When I think to Nathan , leslie is an author too . Right , we don't know Leslie personally , but she's also an author as well . So what form are you going to dig in ? Maybe ? Maybe your form is to write about art and artists and those things and bring your perspective viewing others works and other stories and other things into life . Let's use Jerry Saltz for an example .
Speaker 2Because Jerry wanted to be an artist , he went to art school . His goal was to be an artist , to be a painter , and then he found out he's much better talking about art and looking at art and critiquing art . And he told himself I'm better at doing that and I love art so much . I want to be in the art world . I need to be writing about art and talking about art instead of painting and creating art . And that is just as important and needed in the art world as it is being the artist and I tell this to collector friends of mine who are smaller collectors . They collect local work and support emerging artists and beginning artists through collecting and buying their work . They're just as important as the artist .
Speaker 2The art world needs artists writers , critics , collectors , dealers , gallerists , startup galleries , small artists run galleries . All of these things are so integral and important to the art world , and everybody comes from different stories , different backgrounds and different ways of life . So where do you fit best ? Is it creating ? Is it talking about , is it writing ? Is it interviewing ? Is it buying and collecting ? Just because you love art so much doesn't mean that you have to be the artist . Maybe it's your job to write and talk about the artists . Just the thought .
Speaker 1That's a great place , I think , ty , to end for today , what are your takeaways ? I've got a couple things to kind of land the plane on , but I'll let you take first crack at closing the book on this .
Speaker 2Q&A . Yeah , we all have questions . We all have hundreds and thousands and thousands of questions , and the thing that is really hard is that the art world is an ever changing , ever evolving , ever moving engine . It's never the same . Next year is going to be different than this year . The year after that's going to be different than five years ago . Things are going to develop and change .
Speaker 2The things that you've heard for years that are don't do this , don't do that , change to where it's okay to do that now it's okay .
Speaker 2So that's why always be studying , always be researching , always be looking and asking questions , like you're doing , because if you don't , you don't know what's happening and you don't know what's going on and you're not learning and things . So just know , as we said before , at the end of the day , make work , make a lot of it . It's up to you , keep making , but you have to do the footwork , you have to do the networking , you have to do the research and you have to get out there in order for things to happen , in order for your questions to be answered . If you're just sitting there and making work and not doing any of that , you're going to be holding onto your questions and your what ifs for a long time . So figure out ways to find that boldness to go to the show you want to go to , to go talk to artists , to ask really hard and deep questions of other artists and other people in the art world and , at the end of the day , like we always say , just make art a lot of it and keep growing and experimenting .
Speaker 1Yeah , so much of what's required in this space or , I would argue , in pursuing anything of value involves getting outside our comfort zone and doing the things that we may not naturally enjoy doing . There are a lot of things on the business side or the tech , like the getting out there the things that I do not like or do not love . Okay , like that's just . That's part of what's required , right ? So , understanding that , just because you don't particularly enjoy going and you know rubbing elbows or whatever the case may be , okay , cool , do it anyway .
Speaker 1Right , it's a necessity , yeah , it's a necessity and it starts from a place of identifying what it is that you want . In fact , we may actually want to . Going forward with the Q&A , ask folks to share with us , just give us a little bit of context of what you're looking to do or what the objective is . But spending time with yourself and getting clear on what do you want currently , what are you after , with the understanding that your goals , your objectives , the things that are important to you now , may and probably will change and evolve over time .
Speaker 1And being open to hey , at one point I was really after this , but now I've realized what I'm really interested in is moving in this direction over here . That way , your actions can always be consistent with your goals . There's nothing worse than taking action , especially actions that are outside your comfort zone , that are consistent with an old goal or an old objective or something that we thought we were supposed to want or supposed to be after , when in actuality , it's not consistent with who we are today and where we're ultimately looking to go . So I think that that awareness of spending time with yourself , spending time with your work and just being intentional about the entire process is what's going to get us all from where we're at to wherever it is that we're trying to go today .
Speaker 2Yeah , and I've got a question for you , nathan , I have a question . Yeah , can I throw a question in ? Yes , you .
Speaker 2So here's my question for you is we have some . We have some more really good questions that I would really love to talk about , some great ones . Can we do a second ? Can we do a second part to this , a part two ? I'll allow it . All right , let's do it . So there you go , we are going to do . We have some other fantastic questions , so we're going to do a part two . So we're excited to dive back in when we jump back in to do some more questions .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think we can agree . We'll make this a thing . So , whether it's a call for questions or just an ongoing thing like one , thank you for bringing that up . One of the we'll close with this and we were talking about this , you know , off off off air . But one of the things that we'd love to discuss with you as well as as we bring up different artists , different quotes we're fully aware that we're just two perspectives , you know that share in our take on on a quote or quotes that we might share from artists .
Speaker 1So , um , we'd love to get feedback on particular episodes like hey , you discussed this quote by so-and-so . You know I actually had a different take on it . So you know I actually had a different take on it , and here's what I thought . We'd love to share that and get into some more dialogue
, you know as well . So , thank you for the questions . Keep them coming and understand that if we don't get to them on the next episode , we're going to continue to log these and store them up as we go to kind of drop these into the flow . So , with that being said , thank you for joining us for today's episode of Just Make Art . Find us on YouTube as well , where we share video of us yapping away . If you're an audio-only person and Ty does a phenomenal job of dropping some really cool B-roll to make it visually interesting other than just our mugs yapping away Share it with a friend and join us next time on Just Make Art Bye .