Ever been stumped by a team member who just doesn't seem to click with the rest? This episode is your guide to navigate such complex dynamics, using the example of SB's challenge with Sarah, a new, reclusive, yet hard-working team member. We unravel how personal values and perspectives shape interactions within a team and how to use the ladder of inference to understand different viewpoints.
If you have been working to create a strongly connected team, and want to get the most out of your employees, you need to listen to this critical step you might be missing!
To have your questions answered on the show, submit your story here: https://allthrive.ca/share-your-story
Leadership Ripples with Leah Fink is live every week at 5:00pm MST. Please join us to get answers to your leadership questions! https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-fink-all-thrive/
Ever been stumped by a team member who just doesn't seem to click with the rest? This episode is your guide to navigate such complex dynamics, using the example of SB's challenge with Sarah, a new, reclusive, yet hard-working team member. We unravel how personal values and perspectives shape interactions within a team and how to use the ladder of inference to understand different viewpoints.
If you have been working to create a strongly connected team, and want to get the most out of your employees, you need to listen to this critical step you might be missing!
To have your questions answered on the show, submit your story here: https://allthrive.ca/share-your-story
Leadership Ripples with Leah Fink is live every week at 5:00pm MST. Please join us to get answers to your leadership questions! https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-fink-all-thrive/
Speaker 1:
Every action you take as a leader has a ripple effect, starting with your team, going out to the organization and even out into people's personal lives. Here we offer you the chance to learn from real life stories of leadership so you can gain a deeper understanding and level up your own skills From communication to culture, to power and equity, to feedback, to resolving conflict and more. Join us and make sure you're creating the ripples you want. Welcome to Leadership Ripples with Leah Fink.
Speaker 2:
Now today we're going to be talking about what happens when you have that person that you just don't mesh with. You're having challenges with them, you don't fully understand them and you don't quite know what to do with that. Now, of course, this is going to be building on what we've talked about in some of our past episodes and going another layer deeper. So if you haven't heard those, please feel free to go back, give them a listen and see what you think. Espe shares her story with us today. She says I work with a non-for-profit that is quickly growing. My team's almost double in the past year and our culture is quite healthy. We have good staff retention, especially for a non-for-profit, and my team gets along really well. I would say we're like a family.
Speaker 2:
Now, one of the newer members, who I'll call Sarah, started about six months ago. She's a really hard worker and she always does good work. I think she cares about the work we do. The problem is she won't engage with the team. We have regular staff lunches, we have volunteer groups that go out together, we have events in the office and everyone just tends to spend a lot of time with each other socially as well. Sarah chooses to stay in her office for lunch. She doesn't join the volunteer groups, she only attends office events that she's required to and hasn't made friends with anyone outside the office. I feel like she just doesn't like us. I can't fault her work for anything, but I see her team being annoyed with her and I wonder if there's a way to transfer her to a different department. Am I supposed to force myself to like her? Does that make me a good or bad leader? I'm even finding it hard to keep telling my team to give her a chance.
Speaker 2:
Thanks for sharing your story, sb. I could guess that this would be frustrating and worrisome, because you care about your team and you want them to do really well, and here's this person that's not settling in despite your best efforts. And I really wanted to share this story as it builds on a couple pieces that we already started talking about, especially in that second episode with MEO's story, talking about aligning a team with values. But it also goes beyond that. We're going to be going into, obviously, a lot of different pieces of organizational culture with this show. That's essentially what your leadership is. You're creating a culture with your team, and we looked at this base of culture, which is our organizational values, those things that we care about. Hopefully you have now gone through with your team, talked about your values and what they mean and the actions people want to take.
Speaker 2:
But there's another side to organizational values, which is also our relational values, just with each other, and it sounds here like if Sarah has a lot of buy-in with the direction the team's going. Her work is high quality. The challenge might be more in that relational space. Now are there things that you've talked about with the actions and the ways you want your values lived in the organization that speak specifically to how staff should interact. Is there almost a requirement by the organization that there is a certain amount of social time or how staff should interact with each other when they are talking? These are great things to know, and I don't know them in this case, and so we can just go off what we are aware of in terms of SB story. So maybe there is, or maybe there isn't, some guidelines about how they're hoping to treat each other in the office, and the reason I want to focus in on this particular story right now was because of one line that really stood out to me, which was I feel like she just doesn't like us. There's a lot of things inherent in that line that we're going to dive into today Now.
Speaker 2:
The first piece, of course, is that leaders are humans. We have quirks and foibles. We have strengths, we have skills. We have gone through a variety of different experiences, both challenging and positive. We have our own personality and the values that we have, our core values in the world. All of these pieces come together to make us, and from that we then use that to see the world through a certain lens. So if you really value relationship, maybe you see a lot of things. You're constantly looking out in the world for things around relationship. Maybe, if we value organization, you're really quick to notice organization or things that aren't organized. Those are the lenses that we see the world through Now. As we have to be aware of as a leader, that lens can also influence how we see the people we work with, and especially the people on our team that we're trying to support.
Speaker 2:
And a great way to start looking at where our lens might be tripping us up a little bit, is this idea, something called the ladder of inference. This was created by Chris Ardress. He was a Harvard theorist and practitioner. He created this in the 70s and it's a very simple concept but really looks at how we start to build these ideas that we have. So if you picture a ladder right now, it's got a whole bunch of different things, we have different rungs and we climb up it.
Speaker 2:
The first rung of the ladder is observable data. So if you think about a situation and you were to film it with a camera and to pick out all the pieces, those would be observable, the things we see, the things we hear. There's no judgment involved. So what exactly did someone say? How did they move their body? So if we're to look into SB situation with Sarah, so what you could say is maybe an observation or a situation they had was Sarah was in her office. Sb went in and said Sarah, would you like to join for lunch? Sarah said no, thank you. That's the entire interaction. That is factual, that they said those words.
Speaker 2:
And so we now move on to the next rung of the ladder and this is where it starts to move away from the facts. Now we have the data we select, and so the data that SB selects could be that Sarah said no, thank you. You could also select data, maybe like what she saw, sarah's body language, like, let's say, in this case, sarah had her arms crossed when she said no, thank you. Okay. So now this is what I've decided to focus in on. The selected data that I choose is these crossed arms.
Speaker 2:
Okay, from this I start making an interpretation and I start giving this some sort of meaning. So I've you know and this is a very natural thing, by the way, our brains have so much going on, we're taking in so much data. It's very natural that we look at our past experiences and use that to filter these things, so we don't have to have our brains so full of everything all at the same time. And that's where interpretation is coming to. They're like a little shortcut that helps us get to the next idea. So, now that we've started to add meaning to crossed arms, maybe we think our meaning is that you only cross your arms when you're upset about something. Crossed arms aren't a happy thing, they're not an open thing. So now we've started to add this meaning and from that we make an assumption, and our assumption is Sarah is pretty closed off.
Speaker 2:
We've now started to add this whole layer to this motion of crossed arms and from that we have this conclusion Sarah is a closed off person and because she's closed off, she doesn't like the team, she's not going to connect with the team. Quite a conclusion, but you can see how easy it is to get there. And in the long term, especially if we see repeating behavior, which we'll talk about in a sec this turns into beliefs, and our beliefs are how we see a person. How we are now experiencing and interpreting Sarah in the world is through this belief system, and our belief is now that Sarah is a closed off person who doesn't like the team. Based on that, we're going to take actions and this is the last rung of the ladder is the actions you take based on all these different steps that we've gone up? So now we think that Sarah is this closed off person who doesn't like the team. Maybe we're gonna choose to not invite her to more events, or maybe the opposite. Maybe we're gonna try to have more mandatory events so she has to interact with the team, or maybe we're going to start treating her differently. Because we now have these different ideas about her and, regardless of what that decision is moving forward, it was unarguably created because of our beliefs. We're now gonna treat her maybe differently than the rest of the team.
Speaker 2:
Now, the really sneaky thing about the ladder of inference is it becomes this loop, because once you've started to form a belief about somebody, it's not like you're gonna go back to fully just that observable data and look at everything. We're now going to just go to the data we select and if we have a belief that Sarah is not a good person, she's closed off, she doesn't like the team what data are we gonna select the next time she says something to us? Are we staring at her arms? Are we staring at her mouth thing? Oh, is that a frown? I think I see a frown because she doesn't like us. We're literally creating this echo chamber of our own belief, getting more and more convinced with every single thing that she does, that it must mean something that reinforces what we already believe. Now this is, I'm gonna say, the core of most disagreements that I see.
Speaker 2:
A lot of interpersonal challenges, a lot of what I work with, ends up just simply being how do we actually clarify the beliefs that we have about someone? And of course, we all think we're better at this than we are I'm sure it's myself included but mostly our world around us is based in these assumptions, and the thing is, the reason we do this. One is because our brain needs to make these shortcuts so it can be a little bit more effective and quick moving, but also because a lot of the time they do work out for us. Now you'll probably have people in your life who are very easy to get along with. Right, you have your family, your friends.
Speaker 2:
I could make an assumption that maybe the SB and her team have a pretty easy going relationship, and I would hazard a guess, once again, an assumption that it's because they have fairly similar values, maybe some similar experiences, maybe some similar beliefs about what relationships in an office environment ideally look like. So it's very easy to interact with those people and a majority maybe of the assumptions you make in that group are going to be right, as it were. They won't cause any problems, they won't cause any friction. So this group is very easy to get along with. And on top of that, you have an assumption ladder created in those situations as well. It's just a positive one. You see observable data. That's something like how you would interact. You start selecting data because it's familiar to you and therefore you see it as good. You start making positive assumptions about people and that builds and builds into beliefs that this person is a good person. I like this person and now my actions are going to reflect that. Maybe I treat that staff member better, maybe I give them the next bonus or raise because I like them so much.
Speaker 2:
This is what our brain is constantly doing. You may have also had an experience which is quite jarring I know I've experienced this in the past where you have someone who you care about, see very well, because you've built this ladder up in your mind of all the positive things, and suddenly they take an action that's so against the way that you've assumed they are that it kind of shatters that ladder instantly and you suddenly feel betrayed by them. And why would they do that? How could? I thought they were a good person. That's kind of what happens sometimes with these ladders, because we built up so much of a relationship on not actually knowing anything but assuming things were good that when we realize it's not true, it can be quite a shock. Now there is great value, obviously, for our brains to be able to do this quickly, but even greater value, I would argue, in making sure that we are clearing some of these assumptions, because this is really where we create very strong and healthy relationships.
Speaker 2:
So really, simply to start off, the first thing we need to be doing is gain some self-awareness, and you could literally look at any of your relationships in your life right now and think about what you may be assuming. What things do you 100% factually know? And I will say you can only know that if you've asked someone a specific question about their experience and what they feel and what they think about it, and what things are you then guessing, maybe based off the other things you know about it, and it's really either closest person, your spouse, your kids, your friends, the people you work with all the time I guarantee you'll have lots of things that are assumptions that may or may not be true, and so, as we start to look at this, maybe we look at SB's experience. She can start looking. Ok, in my relationship with Sarah right now, I'm feeling this tension. Obviously I have this sense that she doesn't like me or doesn't like the team. First thing we can do is think, ok, well, let's look at that selected data that I picked crossed arms Are there any other reasons in the world that someone might cross their arms other than being closed off?
Speaker 2:
Of course there are Could be comfortable to her. Maybe the office was a little cold and she was doing that to stay a little bit warmer. You could start from there. Well, what would that change about where you went on that ladder? Would you start thinking, oh well, sarah crossed her arms, ok, so she might be cold, so the office must be cold, so maybe I'll turn the thermostat up? That's a very different ladder to go up, isn't it? And it's still assumptions.
Speaker 2:
So the first step, though, is give yourself that space to explore what you may be assuming and what you may not, because that gives you the opportunity to then go to that person and ask some really good questions. What would be the difference if you went to Sarah SB and just said hey, when I said the other day invited you to come to lunch in the lunchroom and you chose not to, I started making assumptions that you didn't like the team, you didn't want to be a team player, you don't want to connect with us, and you could just ask simply is any of that true, or could you tell me your experience of that? Because now there is a whole space for Sarah to say maybe she has some challenges with anxiety and it's hard to be around people all day. Maybe she has some big stuff happening in her family life and it's really important that during lunch she spends some time on her phone checking in with people. There are a million reasons that this could be happening and having the ability to check in about those assumptions, hear what's actually happening for those people, then you get to move forward in a way that's not based on maybe some anger and resentment or hurt, building up from all these emotions that we've attached to this assumption we've made.
Speaker 2:
The other thing that is really great with this is often when we have those people in our group, when we have the Sarah who is slightly different from the team, when we have maybe a couple of members that don't quite fit in and you have a group that's otherwise fairly homogenous. Those people that are slightly different can be some of your greatest assets to your team, and I think a lot of people know this. And it's different in practice when you're working with them every day and you don't always understand their decisions or you're making these assumptions. But being able to now talk to Sarah if she is maybe a little more introverted and maybe she sees things a little bit different in the office. Think of the challenges you might look at differently and have different solutions, for you have a whole group of people that are talking the same way, being that echo chamber for each other, creating this louder and louder voice who brings in innovation or different ideas. And this is one of the great pieces too, that we can even take those ideas and if we judge an idea and go, well, that's a stupid idea, okay, what's our assumption about that idea? Where is that coming from? Is it worthwhile taking a different perspective to even look at this suggestion and see what we might glean from that? So assumptions are really fun topic. We'll be talking more and more about these throughout the series.
Speaker 2:
So I hope you continue to join us, sb. I hope that starts to answer your question about a new way you may approach Sarah and some questions you might wanna ask her, and also some self reflection you might wanna do on your own relationships at work, at home, all of your relationships. Because you shared your story with us, I would love to offer you a complimentary session. That way, we can also make sure to go through and make sure I've answered all your questions, because we don't share identifying details here. I really wanna make sure that's clear.
Speaker 2:
If you would like to share your story, your question, the link for that is in the description below and I would love to hear from you. If you would like to join the show live to ask your questions, make comments, please do. The link for that is also in the description below. I want to thank you so much for joining us today and for listening and I hope to hear from you and for taking this time to try to make sure that the ripples you're creating as a leader are the ripples you're hoping to create. Have a great week and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 1:
We hope you enjoyed the episode. Make sure to subscribe, comment and connect with Leah at meetleahca.