Have you ever tried to have open discussions on diversity, equity, and inclusion but end up feeling misunderstood and frustrated? Join us for a reflective conversation that peels back the layers of this sensitive subject. The journey into workplace gender dynamics takes a deeper look at the concept of privilege and how it subtly influences our interactions, often going unnoticed. Let's explore the essential differences between equality and equity and identify practical steps toward cultivating a more inclusive environment.
Do you want to settle for a comfortable role of continuing the status quo, or have a real, meaningful impact?
If you are tired of unhealthy and unhelpful conversations trying to explain gender dynamics, you should join us for this episode.
To have your questions answered on the show, submit your story here: https://allthrive.ca/share-your-story
Leadership Ripples with Leah Fink is live every week at 5:00pm MST. Please join us to get answers to your leadership questions! https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-fink-all-thrive/
Have you ever tried to have open discussions on diversity, equity, and inclusion but end up feeling misunderstood and frustrated? Join us for a reflective conversation that peels back the layers of this sensitive subject. The journey into workplace gender dynamics takes a deeper look at the concept of privilege and how it subtly influences our interactions, often going unnoticed. Let's explore the essential differences between equality and equity and identify practical steps toward cultivating a more inclusive environment.
Do you want to settle for a comfortable role of continuing the status quo, or have a real, meaningful impact?
If you are tired of unhealthy and unhelpful conversations trying to explain gender dynamics, you should join us for this episode.
To have your questions answered on the show, submit your story here: https://allthrive.ca/share-your-story
Leadership Ripples with Leah Fink is live every week at 5:00pm MST. Please join us to get answers to your leadership questions! https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-fink-all-thrive/
Speaker 1:
Every action you take as a leader has a ripple effect, starting with your team, going out to the organization and even out into people's personal lives. Here we offer you the chance to learn from real life stories of leadership so you can gain a deeper understanding and level up your own skills From communication to culture, to power and equity, to feedback, to resolving conflict and more. Join us and make sure you're creating the ripples you want. Welcome to Leadership Ripples with Leah Fink.
Speaker 2:
Hello and welcome to Leadership Ripples with Leah Fink. So today we are going to be diving into what it means to try to create gender equality in the workplace, what might help and hinder that process, and have we talked enough about this right? Some people are getting probably frustrated. You might have your own strong opinions on what this has been or what your experience has been, so I certainly invite you to come reflect on that and we'll go from there. Ps wrote in with his experience.
Speaker 2:
I've been at my company for years in a management role and recently we hired a new external hire to our management team. She is big into DEI and empowering people, and I think she goes too far with what she says. I have never looked at gender race or any other factor when it comes to decision making and I think it's strange that we talk about this so much. Our business has an almost equal split in leadership of men to women, and I don't see why this still has to be such a big discussion. Maybe there are other places where there are serious issues, but not in ours. Whenever I try to talk to my new co-worker about this, I feel like she gets annoyed at me. The conversation isn't productive and I think she probably believes I'm sexist. I would like to have this discussion without being the bad guy. So thank you for sharing that, ps, and you're bringing up a complex topic that obviously affects a lot of people and challenges a lot of people in a lot of levels, and you're certainly not the only man that I've heard this from who's found it difficult to talk about gender equality, and most men and women that I know have had at least some unhealthy or unhelpful conversations about this from either side. However they're debating or however they're representing. These conversations often do devolve into not as healthy and not as useful. I know I've had some of them myself, and it's a skill I've been trying to cultivate as I have these more and more and are able to create more of that impact that I want with them. So today the intention is to have this more as a healthy discussion. Maybe this will help open the topic, and if you have different ideas about this or want to share your thoughts, I would love to hear them.
Speaker 2:
And let's just start by saying these conversations are naturally going to bring up emotions. A lot of men, especially in this conversation, feel as though they are really great. They have been conscious of gender, they've been conscious of all these pieces, really tried to create equality, and then they feel like they get attacked for something that they're not doing Right. If they're not the ones causing these inequalities, why is everyone mad at them? Why can't they just talk about this, like PS mentioned, without being the bad guy? So, as we go through the conversation, first of all, have whatever emotions that come up about this. That's totally valid. You're going to feel that frustration and the invitation with that is to also keep a piece of that empathy of what another experience may be and how that may play into this. And if you can do those two things, allow yourself to experience your own, but also hold empathy I think you'll enjoy this conversation. I recognize you might also be going well, that's great, leah, but you're a woman and you haven't had the experience of being called out for being sexist. This is true. I'm 100%. I don't deny that and I cannot speak to that exact experience. The best I can do is I can speak to a similar situation, which I actually see as very reflective of this as well, which is that I am a white woman and I've worked with people of different ethnicities, and I'm aware that in Canada, where I live and my work, there is a lot of privilege given to being white and I don't think that I'm racist and I try to make all my decisions from a place of equality. But I can never fully understand and have not had the experience of someone who is not white trying to do the same things I've been doing in Canada. So what I'm trying to do from the start of this is recognize that in myself I had some of those uncomfortable emotions. When I have these conversations, I really have to reflect on myself and build that empathy. And this is really all about our practice of just being the best that we can as leaders, embracing all of these pieces and really being aware in these interactions to see what we could do, because we're the only people that we can control.
Speaker 2:
If you've listened to this show before, it will not surprise you to know that I'm going to start by talking about power and or bring this back to power, and in this situation we're basically talking about privilege, which is a type of power and in the right use of power, which I reference a lot on this show, you might also call this status power, and these are all of the really unearned pieces of influence and voice that you might have, just by whatever social group you're a part of. So this could involve race, gender, sexual identity, being able-bodied, being intelligent, your wealth. Although some of these pieces might have a component of Work that you put into them, most of them are not, and most of them are just things that we as a society have collectively decided. We're going to listen to a little bit more, and it could vary in different places. Of course, I'm talking about this from living in Canada. If you go other places in the world, there might be other statuses that are privileged a little bit more than others, generally about the majority population, the people who are in power, and what we need to just be aware of is where we are and what some of those statuses are.
Speaker 2:
Now, even starting to talk about this, psu may be thinking that the point Is that the women in your organization have the same voice as the men, so they're treated equally. So this dynamic isn't existing. This is the point that you're making. Is that's nice that it might exist other places or it's bad that it might exist other places? But in my workplace this isn't the problem and that's great to hear that your organization, it sounds like prioritized equality and maybe has really worked to get an equal number of female to male leadership, so that dynamic that exists is healthy for you right now. So why are people still complaining? Why is this new manager really focused on expanding DEI and how that's going to work?
Speaker 2:
And the challenge with this, or really any other kind of power when we interact with it, is that you are not representing Just the current situation relationship. You, as a person who has more influence, you're representing a lot more than that, and what does that mean? A lot of our bad experience, a lot of the negative things that stick with us, even trauma, comes from when people in power have not used their power well, and we are affected by that. Of course we are. They had some sort of influence over our life that we didn't have and maybe you ended up facing the consequence of that. Maybe you ended up feeling helpless in that situation, or scared or annoyed or mad, but you couldn't do something you want to because this person had some sort of influence on your life. This could have been a parent, could have been a teacher, a previous boss, but think about that sense of when they didn't treat you. Well, what was that like?
Speaker 2:
And how hard is it to not carry that on to the next situation where there is someone leading you, are trying to support you, and the power we get from these privileges or statuses might not be as obvious as when we say, step into the role of a manager, and we know some of those inherent Influences and abilities that we have to make decisions, and so that means it actually can be a lot harder to see. Right, you can think of it as the water you swim. And does a fish really notice the water they swim? And you really notice the air around you, or is it just how things are? But of course, you do notice it when you have less say in that situation, when you've had these Experiences where you haven't had as much influence on your life or your voice has not been as loud, and then you suffered a consequence from it, even if it was a small one, and I, a lot of organizations, have done a lot of work on unconscious bias, and the reason that we do this is because it can be very subtle.
Speaker 2:
It can be very, very hard to look at, but ps, I would hazard even if you weren't aware of all the pieces and the reasons that you Benefited from your status. They were there and there was some sort of benefit. Even not having to be aware of that status was a little bit of a privilege in itself, less than some of that mental burden. And you know, do you think in general that your female coworkers have had different experiences from you in general in work settings not your current setting, which might be quite healthy, but in general? I have worked with a lot of different groups and I've seen and heard a lot of trends when it comes to some of these subtle, unconscious interplays, of these power dynamics.
Speaker 2:
I'm not going to go in depth into all these situations and make this a big complaint about all the things that are happening, but, like, even if we look at one for an example, let's let's even think about that. I'm going to use a one that I see a lot, which is that in group meetings, men and women, even if there was equal numbers, the men will talk more, they'll have more airtime in general, their voices will be heard more, and they've done a lot of studies on this that show that men do talk more when they're in balanced groups, but that women are perceived to have talked more if they talk an equal amount. So we've already got some subconscious things playing here. This isn't because of you or being a bad person or not caring about equality, but even just that one piece means that you weren't fully, unfully, aware of the reality of the situation, which would have been that both groups talk equally. We have a bias that society has created in us that says women talked more, and, on the flip side of that, it's very common for me to talk to women who've had a negative experience about sharing in a group, because maybe they've been told that they should be talking less, that they're too loud, all of these pieces that can come up, that now they have to take on the burden of what happened. And this was in offices, where there are plenty of people who cared about equality, who were working towards this, but some of these subconscious things were still at play.
Speaker 2:
So here's where you get to make a decision. Are you going to say I treat people well, personally and equitably, so this isn't an issue, or do you want to recognize that, though the issue might not have come from you, you can be part of creating an even better solution? It's really what this boils down to, because even if you weren't the one who interrupted a woman in a meeting or spoke over them or give them equal time they've had that experience and they can't unhav it. And this is the same with any experience that anyone's had. When they don't have as much power and influence in a situation, our brain is naturally going to remember those hard things. It's going to try to protect us from that happening again, so it's always going to be in the back of your mind.
Speaker 2:
So, for example, women now, when they go into a meeting, maybe they have a little more caution about how they speak and when, maybe they've really tried to have a really big voice, because otherwise they don't believe they'll be heard. Based on what happened before and it's generally something, though, that they have to consciously account for and be thinking of and be aware of, and put effort into, and not have this privilege of just being able to talk when they want and assuming they will be heard. So, once again, ps, you might not have created this dynamic, but now you can help with it because you are a manager, so you're in a position of power there, and you are a male who is trying to be a support here, and what you can do is you can take responsibility for the health of that relationship, not responsibility for them and how they react If you're having some of these unhealthy conversations and there's a woman screaming at you for not understanding that a piece of that still sits with her and how she's chosen to act. But you can choose to step up and say I can do even better for this group of people that needs this support. And this is why some concepts that are really came from a caring place, such as like I don't see color, can actually be really disadvantageous. Because if we just say everyone's equal I see everyone is equal, so they must feel equal we're taking away from that piece of previous experience they had where they weren't equal, where they weren't treated well, and so when we look at these initiatives that are meant to elevate to support, they're basically trying to give an extra piece of support, acknowledgement to help get over this previous discomfort, challenge that, whatever group this was had, that they were impacted by. So equality and equity can be quite different things, and how we actually support each other matters. How do you do this? We've talked a little bit about what that looks like in a mangerial role in previous episodes, so you can go back and think about well, what does it mean if I'm being responsible with my power and really trying to help these people? And this actually is very similar. It's going to look a little bit different because different situation, but what we want to do is really be responsive to what that person or that group of people needs and then figure out how you could do that little extra to support it, that you're taking that extra step.
Speaker 2:
And a great place to start this is with a discussion, and this is what I would suggest for UPS. In fact, I would go to your new manager, who's really taking on all these DEI initiatives, and really ask her just where she's seeing some of these challenges in the company, what is she doing to address them and why. We don't need to tell her she's doing right or doing wrong or that her experience is more or less valid than anyone else's, but just by opening the conversation, instead of saying we don't need to do this into, can you tell me what you're doing now? How is that going to help? What could I do that would support that? Where are you seeing these issues? Because you might also be able to bring in some different ideas.
Speaker 2:
There is an amazing power that comes with our status, power that comes with our privilege that because we have that larger voice, we can use it then to advocate for people who have less of a voice. And once again, this is a big, complex topic. We just touched the top of it. But if today gave you an opportunity at all to reflect a little bit and recognize that, even though it might be emotionally uncomfortable and awkward to think about these pieces that you do have, that you can still choose to take responsibility, take extra responsibility, recognizing you have this extra voice and privilege to ultimately make the world a better place, make it more equal, make it more of the world that you're trying to create.
Speaker 2:
Ps. I hope that started answering your question. I'm really looking forward to our further discussion, where we'll get a chance to deep dive into it, and if you have a question or story you'd like to share on this show, I would love to hear it. You can find the link for that in the description below and, of course, if you do that, I will be following up with you with a complimentary one-on-one session to help make sure we've answered everything and as a big thank you, because stories like that are what we need for the show to exist. So I really appreciate those who write in, and if you want to join us, live so you can comment and ask your questions, we would love to have you. The link for that is in the description below, and I want to thank you all for taking the time to sit with this uncomfortability, to consider these different pieces, to acknowledge your own privilege and want to support others. It is really, really important work, and so I thank you so much. Have a great week. We'll see you soon.