“Behind the Slaughterhouse Gates: Irish Horse Industry Exposé”

Welcome to a powerful and timely special episode of our podcast. In this edition, we tackle the investigation by RTÉ that uncovered shocking systems of animal-welfare abuse and food-safety failures in the horse-slaughter industry. 

We’ll unpack:

• How hundreds of horses declared unfit for human consumption ended up in slaughterhouses. 
• The Abuse that took place in the slaughter house, uncovered by RTÉ documentary.
• The mechanics of identity fraud and traceability failures in the equine food chain. 
• First-hand interviews from protesters outside the slaughterhouse site and what it means for horse care, regulation, and public trust.

For the first time on our show, we dive deep into the uncomfortable side of the industry, exploring why these failures matter for us as equine professionals, and how we as behaviourists and caretakers can respond.

Join us as we listen, learn, challenge, and think about what real welfare, transparency and ethical oversight should look like in horse care.

Voice note your questions on WhatsApp to +353 85 143 8688 to have your questions answered on the Podcast.

Meet Your Hosts

Barbara Hardman (Bright Horse Equiation)
www.brighthorse.ie

📧barbara.j.hardman@brighthorse.ie ☎️+353 85 143 8688

 Jen Nash (The Equine Method)
www.theequinemethod.co.uk

📧 Info@TheEquineMethod.co.uk ☎️+44 7902920923

Transcript

0:00

Hi everyone, welcome back to Dangerous at Both Ends and Tricky in the Middle. I'm Barbara. This isn't necessarily how we wanted to come back to you guys, but there is a really important topic that we want to talk to you about today. Um, and there will be a slightly different tone to this podcast, but we just feel like it's really, really important to talk about. So although this is an Irish issue, we also believe that it affects a lot of horses within the UK and Ireland and anyone who's a horse owner and lover. This is a really, really important conversation. And thank you very much for joining us for this important episode. As we say, this is not how we wanted to bring the podcast back, but with current events, we just felt that there is too much importance in having this conversation to not release this episode. And I think there is unfortunately a tendency, as Barbara's said, that for us as humans, oh, it's an Irish issue, it's a different country. For us in the UK, for me, it's horses, it's horse welfare, it's it's it is close to home, and we do a and you know the UK does a lot of horse movements between you know the Republic of Ireland to the UK, whether that's through Northern Ireland or straight on a ferry, and it's for the love of the horses that we're having this conversation. So it will, if you're a horse lover, this does affect us all. Yes, and and although I it might be a bit corny to say it, but yeah, horse welfare transcends borders. Ireland and the UK have a very close relationship. We have a land border with Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, and we do trade in horses, both the UK and Ireland and across to Europe. So it is a really, really important issue that affects all of us who care about horses. So if you don't know what we're talking about, nor I'm about to explain it, say we're going to be discussing the recent revelations by the RT documentary, Horses Making a Killing, which on the 12th of June aired, which uncovered serious allegations and illegal practices as well as fraudulent activities within the equine industry. Before we dive in, I just want to provide a content warning. This episode we'll be discussing equine abuse, fraudulent practices that may find you may find stressing. If you're not in a good place to listen, we really advise that you just leave this episode for a while and come back to it at a time that's suitable for you. Yeah, please take care, guys, while listening to this. If you do find the content too challenging, we also offer alternative ways to engaging with this material through written summaries and updates available on our Facebook and Instagram. You'll also find links in the show notes as well to the documentary, the article, and some of the news stories, and also a change petition. I'm just going to start really quickly with a brief summary of the actual documentary's findings. So RTE's documentary, Making a Killing, reveals illegal practices within the equine industry. So these included the falsification of documents referring to passports, and also, I suppose, microchips is a form of electronic documentation for that horse, as well as unsafe transport conditions where horses were overloaded. Transports that were found to only carry 16 horses, or should have only carried 16 horses, were carrying over 26 horses, some of which had equine influenza, some of which were pregnant. And these are not horses that should have been transported, let alone have gone to a slaughterhouse. We've also seen in the documentary inhumane treatment in and at the slaughterhouse in Kildare in Ireland, and all of these practices have some really serious implications for both horse owners in Ireland, the UK, and across Europe. That's right. This isn't an isolated incident, it's a systemic issue affecting many horses. The documentary highlights the creation of fake passports, the removal and implementation of microchips, so that's changing the identity of the horses, allowing horses that are not fit for human consumption to enter the food chain. And this has massive ramifications. As although we are not typically countries that eat horse meat, there are there are countries in the EU who do regularly eat horse meat. And just to talk about, we sort of the reason we're referring to it as a, I suppose, fake passport, because it's not the true passport of the animal, it was a second passport that was issued. So under the regulations, all horses must have a single lifetime identification document referred to as passport, and a single unique lifetime identification number assigned to that passport, and that's issued by an approved issuing body. And the implantation of a microchip can only be done by a practicing veterinary surgeon, and that has to have a suitable electronic responder. What we saw that was happening within the documentary and in the practice in Ireland was that multiple documents, multiple passports were being issued for these horses. The ages and information around that horse were changed, such as their name. There's a new microchip, a second microchip was being implanted into some of these horses, and new numbers were being given. Some horses were being sold and transported with a new name, two microchips, and also their age was changed from 18 to 24, which is the estimate, to 12 to 13 years of age. And these were being shipped across the borders and across to Europe. I think it's important to say that if you haven't had a chance or you don't want to watch a documentary, this information has been found via camera footage in within the barns, within the slaughterhouse, and the footage is very clear of a horse in the stalks and these microchips either being inserted or some being removed and new ones being put in. And this footage has actually been reviewed by a veterin. Is that correct, Barbara? She can correct me if I'm not getting details correct here, which has verified that that is exactly what is being done in that moment. It's actually a trained forensic veterinary surgeon. So there are certain vets within the practice who have trained for forensic details when it comes to animal because animal abuse and animal legislation because we have animal welfare acts in place. Obviously, there's a legal expertise that's required. So we have veterin surgeons who not only are qualified to be able to provide medical support and understanding of what's happening to an animal and that expertise, they're also expertise within forensic science and within the laws and the regulations. So this footage has been reviewed by a forensic vet, and uh he confirmed in the documentary that there's in his words, I believe, was that there's nothing else that could possibly be from multiply seeing the videos. So not only does this breach the regulations that a microchip should only be inserted by a vet resurgeon, which this person in the footage is not, but it also breaches the regulations that animals should only have one microchip. This for me was really concerning how easy it was to source microchips and how easily it was to insert a new microchip into a horse. And if you've watched the footage, it's the casual nature of it, which for me was very shocking, you know, to to watch that, um, and to see how easy it was to be able to do it. Yeah, I think that was one of the hardest things about going through this was almost the casual nature of it. I mean, the we're we're we we are going to move on to the abuse element of this, guys, just fair warning, and I think that was some of the hardest stuff to watch was just how easy and routine it a lot of these movements and the human behaviour and actions it looked. So this wasn't these weren't one-off incidents, there was an abundance of recorded footage, and RTE has stated in one of their publications that you know what they put in the documentary was only what they felt they could put in the documentary. There is obviously an abundance of footage which was not put onto the onto the uh the documentary that was put onto TV and RTE on Wednesday. And also it was a very long documentary, and it was it was sort of two over two parts. Um and I personally, you know, found it was it was very harrowing to watch um all of it. I can't imagine adding any more to it without, you know, really kind of providing the the salient points. Um just when it comes to the the transport of horses. Um I know I spoke very briefly about um one of the horses testing positive for equine influenza. We talk about biosecurity within our horse populations and the transporting of horses that are carrying an infectious disease in a very closed container. So this was a horse lorry that should have only carried 16 horses and was carrying 26 and was was found at the the port. The reason it was found at the port, um I believe this is the Dover to Calais crossing. Um they'd come from Ireland and they were going across to mainland Europe. Um they had falsified the records on the on the transport. Um it was actually declared as Mercedes car parts according to the records. The World Health World Horse Welfare have now rescued the horses that were on this transport. But the reason it was highlighted was the urine and feces was dripping off the side of the trailer to the extent that it highlighted an issue to the transport authorities. When you have a horse vehicle that is rammed, it's like that, well over capacity. It's not only a safety issue for the horses involved, but it's also breaking the law from a transport perspective, you know, even just like motoring side of things and carrying over the the the curb weight over the the transport weight for these horses. You also have a biosecurity issue that one of the horses was had equine influenza and could have spread it to the other horse populations and was then transporting that through different countries, which increases the risk to the domestic horse populations in all of those countries and spreads that infection, putting at risk more horses. So it we're not just when we cannot regulate and we cannot control the movement of these horses in a safe manner, it goes beyond those individuals, but also we have passports for a reason and we because we can see the medical history that this horse has undergone and be able to protect that horse and give them the treatment that they need, but also protect other populations from an infectious disease. However, I don't want the message to get lost about the passports, about the microchips. There's so much more in there in the documentary where they call out the Cash family, where they have shown them to have been transporting horses on fake passports to Sweden and the rest of Europe and the UK, you know, and falsifying their age. Like it's well documentary, really terrifying, really terrifying because again, you know it's it's fraudulent, it's fraudulent, and you're especially during COVID. How many people we were forced, you know, if you really wanted a horse and you had the budget, and you'd be buying them on scene and buying them online, and it happened to a friend of mine that you know said horse arrived and there was lots of complications, and said horse. Um, the video basically, long story short, the horse arrived, and we were looking at the sales video, and we actually were trying to work out if that was the same horse because the markings weren't quite we couldn't quite see the horse's face, and in the video, the horse had boots on, and we realized that we'd never actually been sent a video of the horse's head face on to see the markings, and every video had leg markings on, and yeah, a lot of money was spent, and horse is now retired because it's broken, um, and had quite a lot of issues, and there were behavioural issues as well. And you know, when this documentary came out and they were showing that these horses were going, you know, to the UK, but to Sweden, to all over Europe, to France, and Calais, and it really does start to make you wonder. And I'm not just talking about just this one location, I'm just talking about the transportation and falsification of documents in general around the world. It just makes the whole industry really hard to navigate, and that's a whole topic in itself. It's how do you know what you're buying is is what you're buying, even if you see the horse in re in the flesh? How do you know for sure that the document you've got in your hand is is valid? Um and all you have to do is go on to all of the numerous trace my horse Facebook groups that are there and see post after post after post of people wanting to find out more information about the horse that they saw sourced because they can't get in touch with the dealer or the buyer, or there's something that doesn't add up for them when it comes to the the passport or what the vet is saying, and we saw that in the in the RT documentary. There was a uh one they traced from Ireland to Sweden where for from from this cash family buyer that the passport had been reissued in Northern Ireland, the horse was suddenly seven years younger or something to that effect. Um, and the vet on the other that had serious you know hip malfamations and all sorts, you know, to the point where someone had gotten seriously injured with this horse, again all reported in the RTE documentary, and the vet had been like, Oh, this horse is is closer to 18, 22 years old, you know, which is really important for so many different reasons because how you train and keep a horse that is older is going to be vastly different for how you train and keep a horse that is younger. You know, there are there are certain things when it comes to their health, their welfare, what you would expect them to be able to do from a you know, a riding perspective, a companion perspective, when you would retire them. Like uh it all impacts them, you know. Yeah, and I think this is one of the most reasons why it can sound like a bit of a boring topic. The you know, why is it so important about these documents, these passports, you know, what are they really worth? It's because it goes so much further than just the horse's name and lineage and their breeding. It really is about their journey and their age, where they've been, what are they carrying any diseases? Have they been vaccinated? Are those stamps even valid? Are they correct? You know, the implications for biosecurity across countries, but on a more home base, like Barbara's just said, there, you know, it makes such a difference that horse's welfare of knowing what age they are dictates how we feed them, how we house them, how we train them. You know, there's even been, you know, I've seen it myself. Has the horse actually been castrated? You know, has it actually is there possibly one still in there? Do we and I have had that before where we we've actually had a rig with a testicle that's never descended and the horse has made it to like seven years old. Obviously, well, as far as we know, has never mounted a mare and actually had offspring, but it has a massive effect to their behavior and how we house them. So just even on that one topic of the passports, the ramifications are huge, and that's only one topic of this uh the documentary by RTE. And it's it's funny you say, like, from from as an Irish person, I am beyond embarrassed. I and that that's the that's the I am embarrassed that this is the conduct that has taken place from so-called, and I will say so-called, experts in the horse trade. That are we I think it's something like 70-80%, you know, we we produce that many of the world's horses, and they get shipped everywhere. Ireland, land of the horses, you know. Um we eat, breathe, and sleep horses in this country. Like we're we're known for our breeding, we're known for our peddering, we're known, you know, Irish Connemaras and Irish cobs and Irish drafts and Irish sport horses that we've been shipping all over the world for how many like you know, decades? And then you get something like this. Not only does it shatter the trust of the Irish people, it shatters the trust on a world stage. We should hang our heads in shame that we allowed this to happen on our watch. I'm ashamed. I I I literally I'm currently rehabbing my own horse at the moment, and yesterday I walked her down the road after all this happened, and I passed several members of the public, and I want the ground to swallow me up because they've all seen this documentary, and I'm if you are a non-horsey person, we talk about this with social license operate all the time. If you're a non-horsey person and you now see horses having watched that documentary, you will think we're all like that. Yeah, yeah, because a big part of the documentary talks about where these horses are coming from, and uh, without without you know pointing any too many fingers, but like a lot of the horses weren't coming from the racing industry, yes, there were cobs, there were sports horses, there was everyone like just your average horse owners, um, you know, horse there, but you know, these horses are being bred and owned, they're coming from somewhere. You know, the abattoir isn't breeding these horses to then slaughter them, they're coming from somewhere. And if there wasn't if it wasn't horse sport, if there weren't horse owners having horses, there wouldn't be horses to put down. So it's not a far-fetched idea for the public to turn around and go, hey horse owners, what are you doing with your horses to even allow them to go to somewhere like this? Mm-hmm. And the fact that, and we we've said it in this, like, and I think you know, some of the interviews that we'll we'll play further on, you know, say the same thing. We are horrified, we're disgusted, we're upset, but are we shocked? No. And that's the scary bit, you know. That's the scary bit. We're like, you know, we we we hear rumors, you hear things within the industry. Um, and I say we we'll get to it later on. There's a podcast about what you can do if you you see certain types of abuse, are you worried and how to record it? But there feels like very little avenue for change, and that can feel like you're a little bit helpless sometimes. And I love my horse, and we love our horses, and that's why we're listening to this, and we want to be able to support them. We will in season two be talking about it and when it comes to end-of-life care and euthanasia because it's something that we we had talked about covering, because this topic highlights the need for humane euthanasia for our horses. So there's a couple of things when it comes to actually, and again, I'm gonna say disposing of a carcass. I hope people understand that that's what we're just referring to from a medical perspective, is quite is quite difficult, you know, particularly when you get to larger animals. So I I briefly worked in marine strandings in Scotland, um, and we worked with, you know, ton, half a ton whales who had passed away before post-mortem. Disposing of that carcass after a cetacean had passed away was a biosecurity risk to the public, to other wildlife and agricultural animals. It was very hard to be able to find somewhere to dispose them. You can't just take them, you can't just take a living creature that has passed away to landfill. Um it's very difficult to incinerate um and to cremate an animal like that. Um, so where do you, and again, I would say dispose because that's effectively what we're we're talking about. Where do you dispose of an animal that has passed away? And how is that done? You know, how is it how is where's the actual infrastructure in place? So sometimes you know, we I don't want to to create any judgment at all for the people who have sent these animals to the only habit. In Ireland that isn't still in operation, because what other choices are there? We can call out a vet, they can euthanase our horses, and then where does the animal go after that? How do we supply them? How do we supply that service to horse owners that provides an ethical, humane, end-of-life care to our horses? It's we we if we cannot we cannot judge those who have sent their horses to this abattoir if they were the only means available to them, because we haven't provided any other means. Yeah, yeah, it is a flawed system, and it's something we will talk about in more detail in a different podcast episode once season two has been launched. But I will just say, like, it it is a flawed system because very often putting putting a horse down is our kindest option, you know, it's horrifically expensive. What do you do when you actually can't afford to do the kindest thing? Because there's a big difference between having your horse put down in the comfort of its own environment, and then whatever happens next happens next, you know. And very often, if you get the vet involved, they will do some of the necessary phone calls, and it's not something you have to think of as a horse owner, but as mad as it sounds, that's actually a very privileged position to be in, and not everyone can be in that position, and you know, my heart breaks for horse owners in Ireland when it's expensive enough as it is when you get to that end-of-life decision, but when that's your only other option, that only location, and you probably know that there's a reputation there as well. Like that's what this is. Um we're gonna we're gonna get into it, but this again, I this why I don't want to judge people who's who have sent at any point in time, because this facility was licensed. Yeah, this facility was regulated by agricultures, it should have been a trusted source. If I am a member of the public and I see a facility that's an abattoir, and I see that it has been granted a license by the Department of Agriculture, and I see that a department vet is on site during slaughter days, that there they are that in 2021 the chief veterinary officer stood in front of the Euroctus and said that this facility operates under all the regulations in light of the panorama expose that was shown for the UK abattoirs, they were brought in and they were part of this care committee and they sat there in front of the government and they said that everything is working perfectly. So I cannot judge and blame anyone for sending a horse here, thinking that they are going to be treated in a humane and caring way at the end of life. Yeah. I mean, what what more could you want if you're doing your homework and you're trying to make the best decision for your horse? What what more can you do if that's the information you have? It sounds like it should have been should have been a good decision, not a good decision, but you know what I mean? The best decision that you could make. That you could make in that time because you have done your due diligence and on paper everything looks like it's running above board. And yet behind closed doors, we'll get to it. It's not. Yeah, and this is why, you know, this whole expose from this the you know, this investigation by RTE, it has done justice to the horses, I think. It has not shied away from really hard details. They've only been able to show what they have deemed as suitable. God only knows what those cameras have also picked up. I I kind of don't want to watch it. It was hard enough, I'd say I've I've watched this twice so that I could get everything, all the information to be able to pass it on. So I've taken taken that one for the team guys, but uh I don't want to watch anymore. I've seen enough to to to last a lifetime. And you know, I do think enough is enough at this point. We've we've seen all this undercut undercover footage. We've been here before, we've been here with the horsemeat scandal before, we've been here with other exposes, you know, showing this sort of footage. We know that it's happening, that we have it all there, that we need to make sustainable change in the industry. So, as we know, there are standards when it comes to the movement of horses, and it's really common for horses to be transported all over the world. Because of that, there are certain regulations and guidelines which must be adhered to to ensure the welfare of the animals and to make sure all legislation is being adhered to. But that wasn't the case in this scenario. Um, Barbara, can you just talk to us a little bit about what were some of the biggest discoveries that were undercover in this investigation by RTE with regards to the transportation of horses out of Ireland? One of the other things that was of great concern when it came to the lorry and the transportation was not only did we have a horse that obviously was carrying infectious disease, but there was also a pregnant mare found on the transport. Now, these horses were headed to Europe for slaughter. Now, while I appreciate that we don't eat horses in Ireland and the UK, they do in Europe. However, that doesn't mean that we cannot provide the best welfare for those animals that are going into the human food chain. And if we can't trace them, then we can't keep the human food chain safe for people. One of the parts of the documentary that was quite startling was that we conducted census here in Ireland to be able to see how many horses they're there, you know, where they're populated, you know, where they are resident. And part of the finding found that over 20,000 Irish horses each year appeared to have on paper gone missing. This is really concerning that we don't have that traceability. And during the RT's research, RT reported and established that one of the men who had been convicted as a ringleader in this network of transporting animals across from Ireland through the UK had already been prosecuted in France for playing a primary role in these horses. And despite serving a five-year ban, which was issued by the French court, and this is all a matter of public record and reported in RTE, was still conducting business and actively involved in the in the equine industry. So undeniably, with the the transport of these horses across borders, we can't we can't just say this is an Irish issue, can we? We've got horses crossing into different countries, and this is a much bigger concern, whether it's a European concern or a global concern to that extent, we don't quite know. But there are other charities out there on a global front who have actually made statements and got involved on the matter. So the World Horse Welfare have been actively involved in this investigation. Zoe Williamson of the World Horse Welfare, which is a UK-based charity for those in Ireland, um that are monitoring horse trafficking, because that's what this is, said that there could be thousands of horses smuggled onto mainland Europe, and the official passport documents that are used are just too prone to fraud. And this is an exact quote from her. It's a paper system for a lot of it. There's no up-to-date photographs, and ultimately they're almost not worth the paper they're written on. In this day and age, we should be have a proper digital system. Now, I completely agree with Zoe. To have a paper-based system for the traceability and transport of horses leaves it open to criminal activity and allows for this trafficking to take place, which seems mad in 2024. Yeah, I found the the statement from World Horse Welfare really quite powerful, and I'm so glad that they they voiced themselves on the matter because it really does identify the fact that this is a cross-border concern. This is not solely an Irish concern. The RTE uh investigation did actually pick up and share one particular example, which I think Barbara is going to explain to us now. One of the things that the RT documentary also highlighted was some of the horses that were seized at the Dover Calais crossing had been bought in the UK, transported to Ireland, and then shipped back across to go to Europe. So there's clearly a very strong correlation between the UK and Ireland and what's happening here, which is why, although this seems like a very quote-unquote Irish problem, I think the onus is on all of us within the UK and Ireland as well as Europe to be able to support our horses to maintain the best welfare for them. So, guys, we're going to now have a conversation about some of the scenes that were observed within the actual abattoir. And before we do, I just want to talk briefly about what is correct animal welfare in such sort of centres. So obviously the slaughter of any animal is very distressful, whether we're talking about pigs, cows, sheep, horses, any animal at all. And depending on the species and what we know of their social structures, there are actually guidelines as to what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. So, for example, we know that horses are social hard animals, and that to witness another horse being put down would be very, very distressing. And as per the Animal Welfare Act, we know that causing undue suffering, whether that's mental or physical distress to an animal is illegal, as is illegal as per the Animal Welfare Act. Now in the UK we have the Animal Welfare Act 2006, whereas in Ireland they actually have a more updated version, the Animal Welfare Act in 2013. So I'm going to let Barbara take over the conversation now as to what was observed within the actual abattoir and where we're breaking the law with regards to the actual welfare act. So yeah, thank you, Jen. So we just talked about the Animal Welfare Act in 2013, that obviously operates here in Ireland. We refer to a term known as unnecessary suffering. So what this means is in relation to any animal that's in pain, distress or suffering, whether that's physical or mental. It's very, very important. And it's in this kind that the object of any of the circumstances is considered unreasonable or unnecessary. So again, distress, mental or physical, suffering, unreasonable or unnecessary. They're the critical parts of this. When we looked at the undercover cover footage within the RT documentary, we saw that that was well and truly breached time and time again. So in this part of the documentary, the second part, we saw some of some egregious treatment and handling of these horses that breached this part of the Animal Welfare Act. We saw in this undercutter footage extreme cruelty, including punching, kicking, beating, and at one point stabbing a horse with a pitchfork who'd fallen on the ground. Now, this horse was unable to stand against undue and unnecessary suffering, could not stand up, and their response to supporting this horse through what was clearly a challenging time was to stab it repeatedly with a pitchfork. It later on died, and the next day was removed from the holding. This horse was in another holding with multiple other horses. Not only was it a heart-wrenching scene, but we also saw a mare give birth to a stillborn foal, only to be hit repeatedly, and then the foal removed. There was another horse that was unable to stand for hours on end. Again, the horse was screamed at, hit, hit with a pitchfork and stabbed in an attempt to make it stand. It struggled for hours and then was eventually shot in front of other horses. Now, if we go back to the legislation, unnecessary suffering, which is an animal in pain, distress, or suffering physically or mentally. All of these horses, I would argue, were suffering both. And it was unreasonable and unnecessary. We can humanely euthanase and slaughter animals. We do not have to provide them with this level of discomfort mentally and physically. It does not matter if they are going to slaughter or not. It is our duty of care to ensure that our welfare act is upholded within the full rigor of the law, regardless of the destination of the animal. And I think that's one of the hardest things about watching a documentary, is there's just no justification for the human behavior and the choices in how to act around the horses. The abuse that we saw and the abuse that has been reported by RTE, there is just simply no justification for it. I think for me as well, when we know that a lot of these weren't feral horses, these were trained horses, a lot of them, and we know that from insights within the documentary, which means that again we talk about unnecessary. If you had needed to lead or bring the horses somewhere, you could have done that using ethical training methods by leading and taking the horses into the stocks or into a different room or moving them around. You could have done that without this level of abuse. So again, we talk about that terminology, which is again unnecessary or unreasonable. To give you guys some more context, Barbara recently attended the protest outside Shannon Foods on June the 15th of this year, 2024, where she was able to speak with Maddy and Kelly from My Lovely Horse Rescue, which is a charity operating in Ireland. So I think we're going to go ahead and listen to some of those interviews now. So I'm with My Lovely Horse Rescue, Animal Welfare Charity and Maddie Doyle. No, I think obviously the Primetime Investigator program when it aired last week, you know, reached people within the public domain that wouldn't necessarily have been aware of this kind of thing. But for anyone working in rescue, working with horses specifically, you know, it's it's known that this is kind of it's common, you know. So therefore, when you see statements from the department, from the racing sector, even from you know the passport agencies to anyone involved in horses and the industry, this is not unusual. You know, it's it's it's shocking. It's shocking, it's it's heartening and emotional. We're not surprised. We're not surprised. We're not surprised in any way, shape, or form, we're not surprised. So Maddy raised some really, really interesting points about the statement from the Department of Agriculture, which is available. Their statement was that they take the matter of equine welfare and integrity of the food chain very seriously, that the welfare of horses is protected by the legislation, placing the responsibility on owners and those who have animals in their possession or under their control to ensure the animals' welfare. This legislation also ensures the appropriate enforcement action is taken in relevant, competent authority where breaches or shortcomings are identified. In recognition of the programme for government, a robust traceability is essential to ensure equine welfare and therefore improving equine traceability has been and continues to be the priority of the department. Any reports of welfare or traceability issues received by the department are acted upon and investigated as appropriate. So that was the statement that Maddie was referring to. So, Barbara, following from the clip there from the interview with Maddy, what is the role of the department that she's mentioning there? I'm just wondering, you know, obviously things can operate differently between country and country. Is there somebody there? Is there supposed to be somebody there who checks on this stuff? What is it that she's referring to in her clip? So there should be a department vet on site on days of slaughter, and they are there to ensure that obviously the law is upkept within the the slaughter of animals, that the practices is fit to hold a license because these facilities must hold a license in order to complete these activities. They're also there to ensure that the microchip and the passport matches the horse that's going for slaughter. So this is really, really, really important because without this, again, we've talked about contaminating the food chain and we've talked about traceability of horses. It's very important that this happens. So we saw on the in the undercover footage that RT presented in their documentary that horses were being inserted with a second microchip, which, as we've talked about, was seen and reviewed. This footage was reviewed by a forensic vet who has expertise within forensic science as well as veterinary care, and was able to confirm that yes, these horses were being given a second uh microchip, which is against the law. Horses are only allowed to have a unique and one microchip within their entire lifetime, and this must be inserted by a veterinary surgeon. This did not happen at the slaughterhouse. In addition to that, it appears to be accompanying uh a passport and matching that passport, which begs the question of whether the passport is pertaining to that horse that was going to slaughter. The third thing that we saw on the undercover footage as well was the fact that the markings, because in a passport there are markings like whirls, socks on a horse, certain stars and blazes that a horse's colour pattern and coat may show. We saw them use spray paint to cover up some of those markings. And this was I would assume I think anybody watching it would be to try and obfuscate their responsibility and in and cover up part of who this horse was in order to bypass the the veterinary officer that was put in place by the department. So we need to ask the question of the department what were the actual checks that this veterinary officer was doing. Um we saw clearly on the documentary that with a microchip reader scanning the neck, they were able to find on one horse in Sweden two microchips. So I understanding the procedure that was taking place at the slaughterhouse is going to be really, really important for our investigation and for the department's investigation. What was their role there? What were they actually what was that veterinary officer actually doing to ensure that we were providing the best welfare for these horses during slaughter and also in their possession in care because they were in the possession in care, and also were they actually protecting the food chain? So we can so RTE has confirmed that there was an officer, a veterinary surgeon or officer representative there, whose job was to uphold Equine welfare? Yeah, so there's department vets on site on slaughter days to to ensure that, yeah. And this stuff was still going wrong, even though there was someone on site, because these people were preparing these horses in a separate facility about again, I'm I'm Judging by the eye, 10, 15, 20 meters away from where the actual killing room and slaughter room was, they were conducting these activities slightly adjacent and in quotes was not within the department's jurisdiction. Take what you will of that. So it was not within the jurisdiction of the department to go into those other rooms to see what activities were being done. Their jurisdiction was to only be in the one room where the actual slaughter would occur. But we saw in the documentary, in the RTE documentary, that multiple activities were going on in different places that were not always seen by said officer. Yes. And according to the department's own statement, they've obviously provided a statement where they have stated that they take the welfare, the matters of equine welfare very seriously and the integrity of the food chain. Fair enough. That is their statement. So which as a horse owner is a really hard one because whenever you hand your horse over to somebody else, you are then trusting them to follow the rules and treat your horse with respect and dignity. And on a very personal note, and this is my own call to action for the department. Um I'm happy to go on record with this. I find it I don't accept that if you are auditing and ensuring the safeguarding of animals on a facility, that you will say, I look at this building, but not that one over there. Yeah. I I find that very, very, very hard to understand. Yeah, I find that very hard to understand and accept that you're basically only being able to audit what you're being allowed to see, which just doesn't feel like a fully comprehensive job done. As someone who's worked in clinical research for a number of years, if I was being audited by the FDA or the HPRA or anyone else, there's no way you could just tell them you can't go into that room. It's just just madness. And and on that note, I believe that Maddy had a little bit more to say on the matter. You know, what's gone on here is, you know, it's we have to place it firmly at the feet of the department. Like there's been a total lack of enforcement here. How, you know, there's a lot of questions that need to be answered. Those questions, for example, how did the owners of this property get licensed to run an abattoir when they have a history of animal cruelty convictions? How did two members of this facility designate themselves as animal welfare officers and get licenses for that? How? How was that allowed to happen? Who allowed who made the decision to allow that to happen? And then when there's an inspection and a department vet would like us to believe, or the department would like us to believe, that they didn't have jurisdiction to inspect the barn that we all saw in the footage, that was clearly housing animals and not just housing animals, but you know, there was the most horrendous abuse and illegal activities also being conducted in that barn, that somehow the department believes they didn't have a right to inspect that building. And that during all the time that the department are on site and present here, during all that time there was never causes for concern, there was never any suspicious activity observed, there was never any questions asked, how, why? It just doesn't, it doesn't add up, it doesn't stack up. So, in my mind, yes, the people who abuse the animals, the people we saw in the footage, they need to be held accountable, they need to be charged and prosecuted and prevented from engaging with animals again. But apart from them being at fault, the bigger fault here is the department and their lack of governance and their lack of their inability or apathy towards enforcing their own legislation. These are the laws of the land. Why are they not being enforced? Yep, I think I think me and Maddie are definitely on the same page there, very much so. Um, as as as members of the Irish community and the Irish horse community um and citizens of this country, you know, we are we are paying taxes to ensure that, as she says, the legislation of our land is upheld, and we have those laws in place because we want to see them upheld for the welfare and management of the horses. We are Ireland, we are the land of the horses, so let's protect them. And see, there was a lot to unpick there in Maddy's clip. Um, one of the things I did find really shocking was the history of criminal convictions in a person's background to then be awarded the position of a welfare officer. I personally have looked into becoming before I started the Equine Method, I looked into becoming a welfare officer for you know two prominent charities in the UK. Um, and I I did end up working for one prominent charity here in the UK. And one of the questions that I think is on most job specs is do you have any criminal convictions? You know, they want to do, you know, almost every job role role I've done is I've had to do a DBS check. You know, they're looking at you know criminal convictions, and that is something that would almost certainly prevent you from getting that job, particularly if your history is within cruelty to animals and you're looking to actually hold that title of a wealthier animal within horses, sorry, within animals. That on its own just I just found that shocking in how on earth that position was awarded. I don't want to go down this rabbit hole too much, but I'm gonna just dip into it a little bit. Having lived in the UK and had a DPS check, so for those in Ireland that's garde vetting, what people won't realise when it comes to garden vetting in Ireland, unlike the UK with the DPS check, the DPS check is done all the time. You do one application, and once you've done that application, you are systematically checked throughout your life. Am I correct, Jen? You know, it's it's so it's yeah, you have to keep it updated. You have to keep it updated. Yeah, so yeah, I have to remember I had to refresh mine, I think it's every two or three years, but then there's a link, and if I apply for a job, an employer can just pop on, go into the portal and have a look. Whereas guard of vetting in this country is, in my personal opinion, unfit for purpose to to safeguard anyone, um, because it's just a snapshot in that time. So if I do garde vetting, say today, now it could have changed since the last time I did it, but in this is the my last known understanding of it. If you do a garda vetting, you do a garda vetting and check right now, it's a snapshot in time. I could go out in six months' time and commit crimes. It's not it's not updated again. Okay, not in the same way that it is in the UK. So we are far behind on that. Again, didn't want to dive too much into that rabbit hole. But yes, watching the documentary, you see the undercover cover footage of this welfare officer punching, stabbing a horse, smacking them in the face. This made me see red. I will be very clear about that. As someone who has dedicated their life to animal welfare, who has numerous qualifications, who's part of an accrediting body, I have CPG that I have to check, I have been assessed by my peers. There is a standard available, you know, of the standard that I have to meet and keep my own clinical notes, you know. I think there's a very common theme throughout this, and and in that clip that we heard there, I think Maddie said it better than better than us, that there's just so many ends that just don't tie up. The fact that they had these investigations being done by the department, the authorities, and there's just no evidence of anything at all. No evidence of abuse, of misdoings, of mistakes, foul play, even honest mistakes, they don't seem to be saying there's a history of any concern. And then the footage is so extreme. It's two ends of a scale, they don't cross over at all. And for a viewer, for a horse lover, for somebody reading these reports, there's so much confusion that just doesn't add up. We're getting two different stories, and they couldn't be they couldn't be more worlds apart. And I think that leads us into um the last thing that Maddie wanted to say about this, which again I I know we've talked about a few things that are a little bit difficult to listen to, and and this one is um this one is quite hard, guys. So, you know, please mind yourselves a little listening. We're talking about people here, and you know, it it's only fair to mention Horse Care Ireland um and their association with the owner of Shannonside Foods. These individuals sat before um, you know, a committee hearing in 2021 and advised the government on you know best practice when it comes to control of horses and horse welfare and identification and passporting and traceability. It's laughable. It's absolutely mind-blowing that that one of those same individuals you know is seen in the footage abusing horses. And I mean, according to Ortiz, some of what they aired, it's only the tip of the iceberg in terms of what they actually have. There's a lot of other footage that they just could not show. But the idea that animals are being shot in front of each other are being allowed to die on the ground while business as usual continues on around them with hitting horses with plastic piping and paddles, mares falling in stables, the ill like illegal, illegal sending a pregnant mare to slaughter is horrendous. So, in that really tough clip from Maddy there, I know that content was really hard, guys, but we can't get away from the fact that this is what has been happening and it has been reported and documented by RTE. It's in the footage, it's in the reports, and they could only share so much. What we saw probably wasn't even the tip of the iceberg. Now, as you obviously are aware, Barbara was there in person. So, Barbara, what was it that you saw from the protest while you were there? Obviously, you're having these interviews, but what was going on around you as well? Can you paint the picture for us? So, yeah, we we saw an empty facility, and it is worth noting that um the Department of Agriculture has now confirmed that all activities have been fully suspended, which is an interesting turn of phrase. Um so suspended as in like this is a slaughterhouse, so suspended as in we are no longer we're suspending uh slaughtering. So they've also said that no animal has entered the food chain from this slaughter plant in the last three weeks, and all the carcasses were presented for slaughter last week, were detained, and the operation of the plant is now fully suspended. What I didn't see in the facility is any horses in the field surrounding. Obviously, the horses live in a pasture and they're they're kept. And we saw in the footage from RT that a number of the horses are not necessarily kept in the barns but kept at the field surrounding the property and on the property. We didn't see any that were there. Um, so I really, really hope that the Department of Agriculture has seized those horses, has taken them to a safe facility where they can have the veterinary treatment that they probably need and been cared for correctly, and that they will be issuing a statement of where those horses are. Because while they are living, breeding, sentient animals that we care about and we want to make sure that their needs are met and that we are holding the animal welfare, what is very clear from this investigation is that they are evidence in criminal activity all the way from potentially fraudulent passports to incorrect microchipping and where they have come from, where they've been transported in, who owns them, who are they? All of that needs to be fully investigated. And when it comes to, as the department has alluded to, a full and rigorous investigation within these allegations that have been made for it and the undercover content that has been shown by RT to have been taking place in the slaughterhouse, it is clear that these horses need to be accounted for, that they are evidence that the site is potentially a crime scene. So I'm glad to see that they've suspended activity, and I hope that they will be sending forensic vets and other forensic professionals to gather that evidence in order to do exactly what they have said that they will do is prosecute within the full range of the law. So hopefully the department will be releasing where those horses are because we've yet to see that. Absolutely. So it must have been a very strange feeling of being there and actually not seeing any horses or seeing anyone. Um, but all we can hope is that these horses are being looked after in the most appropriate way, and I just I just hope whether it's RTE or another newspaper or reporter, we hear where those horses have gone and just hoping that they are getting the care and attention that they deserve. So, Barbara, you were also joined by Kelly, who is a volunteer from my lovely horse rescue there in Ireland, and you had a great chat with Kelly, didn't you? And she actually explained a little bit more about what you can do if you are a member of the public and you see something in Ireland that concerns you regarding Equine welfare, whether that's their physical welfare or their mental welfare, and Kelly's going to talk to you now a little bit on what you can do to be an active supporter and try to improve situations for that horse. Well, I mean it's very important that you know, um a lot of and what we do get from the public in general, when they come to us, they're they're afraid, they're they're too afraid to take out their cameras. It's very, very important to documentate something from the very instant you come across it. That all video footage, um, you know, camera footage, it it can be used later um as evidence, but like always, I mean, always factor in as well that MLHO are around 24 hours seven, we're around the clock, um, three, six, five days of the year. We're here, we're there to help, we're there to guide. Maybe you are in a part of the country that might be too far away from us to actually attend and be with you, but we can guide you, we can help you. We've done it before, and we have had successful prosecutions, but not enough. So, yeah, I I think Kelly said it beautifully there. Like it can be really, really hard to come forward when you see situations of animal abuse, or if you're concerned that maybe there's something in breach there when it comes to the Eagle One. There are lots of animal welfare charities. Um, I just want to speak briefly, and this is something Kelly spoke to me about on the on the day, is that we are we're very restricted when it comes to like responsibility for enforcement if we see something. So those that are responsible for enforcing the law. So members of the Gardashi Akana, so they are police officers for those in the UK, um, customs and excise or revenue officers, uh, appointed persons from the Department of Agriculture, such as the Department of Veterinarians. We spoke about them, uh, local authorities as well, you know, so your council members, um, the person who the minister has has entered into a service agreement. So in this case, that's the ISPCA, the DSPCA who have been appointed. They are the ones who have the power to enforce the Animal Welfare Act. But it is up to us as members of the public to be able to report to those people. So, you know, as Kelly said there, and as we've seen in the RTE documentary with the undercutter footage, the power of video, and that is evidence that helps us be able to bring justice to crimes against animals. And this, I think, is one of our closing messages that we want to make sure we get out there is that you don't have to necessarily feel powerless in this situation. It can feel overwhelming. The amount of detail that has been recovered in this investigation, the RTE, the RTE investigation, the documentary, the footage is extensive, the details are extensive, the reports on the falsification of passports, the microchips, the transportation, the housing conditions of the horses being transported, you know, the list of issues and concerns and legal activity can feel completely overwhelming, but there are things that can be done. So just before we close off, I do want to just bring up that from the UK side, on the 20th of May, World Horse Welfare posted that the bill to ban live exports to slaughter from Great Britain has now received the royal assent and passed into law. This couldn't have been done without rigorous investigations similar to the likes of the RTE documentary, without people reporting and without people building evidence for the official authorities to put together cases to then go to court and make this official and pass it into law. Although this doesn't affect what's happening in Ireland, I just wanted to highlight that change is possible and that if the public can get involved and support the authorities by helping to build that evidence caseload and reporting anything and everything, you just don't know how much even one piece of correspondence, one bit of evidence, your contribution can make to an overall caseload. And I think it is really critical for that legislation because banning the exports of live horses for slaughter means that you are reducing the avenues for these criminals to exploit. In the show notes, there is a link to close down this abattoir. I do encourage you to sign it so that we can have this spoken about in Irish Parliament. Anything that you can do to contact your local TDs to make this top of the agenda. We do have elections coming this year. You know, they do they do want to listen to us to influence how and why the animals of this country are treated and how and what happens to those who breach those laws. Thank you so much for listening to this really important conversation, guys. I know it's been a difficult one. We've done our best to do it as just as much justice as we can. I'm sure that more will start to unfold um over the coming weeks. Stay on top of it. Please do share any relevant information um with us. If you see anything that's important in this subject, we we'd love to hear. And if you can share the articles in this podcast so that we can make sure that it reaches as many people as possible so that we can help support Irish, UK, and European horses. So thank you guys for listening to this very important conversation. We really do appreciate your support and urge you to take action to protect horses, whether that's in the UK or Ireland, and try to help restore some integrity to the situation. And I think we're going to close off the podcast with some final words from Kelly from My Lovely Horse. What I would just say to people is, and this is the theme of today, is be their voice. Don't forget that the animals that you're looking to report, you've come across in in states of poor condition, injured, whatever, they can't talk. So just speak up, be their voice. If you're too afraid, please contact the likes of MLH or we will stand by you, we will be their voice, even if you are too afraid to. But it's very important that people be our eyes and our ears. We cannot cover every inch of this country, unfortunately, even though we very much wish we could. Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.