“To scrape, or scrape not to be…...?”

It’s hot.

The horses are sweating.

And once again, the yearly horse-world civil war has begun: “To scrape or not to scrape?”

Every summer this debate comes back around social media like clockwork. Hose the horse down and scrape the water off immediately… or leave the water on because it actually helps cool them?

Apparently, according to some corners of the internet, if you leave water on your horse they will immediately boil alive.

So naturally… we decided to talk about the physics.

In this episode, Jen and Barbara get into:

•  thermoregulation in horses 
•  how horses manage heat in both summer and winter 
•  convection, evaporation, airflow, and why moving air matters 
•  why cold hosing works on injuries (and why that same logic matters here) 
•  what humidity actually does to cooling 
•  wet bulb vs dry bulb temperatures 
•  why high humidity and no airflow is the real danger zone 
•  climate change, hotter summers, and why Ireland and the UK are particularly bad at handling heat 
•  misting systems, fans, and cooling strategies used in high-level competition horses 
•  kangaroos licking their forearms 
•  and somehow… the Titanic 

Because no episode stays on track for long around here. We  had to talk about one of the biggest myths around cooling horses:  that leaving water on the body somehow “heats” the horse up. Spoiler: that’s not how thermodynamics works.

The film of water absorbs heat from the horse, airflow helps remove heat through convection and evaporation, and moving water continuously increases cooling efficiency.

Science. Not Facebook comments.

This episode is part horse welfare, part biology lesson, part weather forecast, and part public service announcement during the Irish & UK heatwave.

Stay hydrated.
Mind yourselves.
And maybe stop arguing with strangers on the internet about scrapers.

—

Some of the science we talk about in this episode:

Thermoregulation
The body’s ability to maintain a stable internal temperature despite environmental changes.

Thermoneutral Zone (TNZ)
The temperature range where the horse does not need to use extra energy to stay warm or cool. For horses this is commonly estimated around 5°C–25°C, though this varies with breed, coat, age, body condition, and acclimation.

Convection
The transfer of heat through moving air or water. Airflow over wet skin helps remove heat from the horse’s body.

Evaporation
When water changes from liquid to vapour, removing heat energy in the process. Sweating and water left on the horse both cool through evaporation.

Humidity
The amount of water vapour already present in the air. High humidity reduces evaporation efficiency, making it harder for both humans and horses to cool themselves.

Wet Bulb Temperature
A measure that combines heat and humidity to reflect how effectively evaporation can occur. High wet bulb temperatures are dangerous because sweating becomes less effective.

Homeostasis
The body’s process of maintaining stable internal conditions, including temperature, hydration, and metabolism.

Cold Hosing
Using running water to remove heat and reduce inflammation in tissues by transferring heat away from the body.

Got a question you are burning to asking us, nothing is off limitis, or do you have a behaviour issues you’re trying to figure out? Send us a voice note. Your voice, your question, your community is here.

Real cases. Real answers. All madness (guaranteed, the madness bit anyway).

Voice note your questions on WhatsApp to +353 85 143 8688 to have your questions answered on the Podcast.

Meet Your Hosts

Barbara Hardman (Bright Horse Equiation)
www.brighthorse.ie

📧barbara.j.hardman@brighthorse.ie ☎️+353 85 143 8688

 Jen Nash (The Equine Method)
www.theequinemethod.co.uk

📧 Info@TheEquineMethod.co.uk ☎️+44 7902920923

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

So a little bit of admin before we start, and I know you know this, Jen, but for the benefit of the tape, um it's boiling. It's absolutely boiling. I have an ice pack here. Uh I won't tell you about the strategy that I'm using. I've already explained it to Jen. Um trying to do that. I think it's worth explaining. I think it's worth explaining.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Really? Yes, really. Yes. I honestly do people want the visuals, do they? They don't need the visuals, but you could you could get the visuals if I explain it. No, but you could you could miss out one detail and still give information.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

So I have an ice pack and I have it under my left boob. Was that the bit I was supposed to miss out? Yeah, that was a bit you could miss. Yeah, but we but at the at the end of the day, we should also be empowering body parts. Women have boobs, um, you know, so uh under my left one, because obviously your heart is slightly, you know, it's not right in the middle of your chest, so then you've got like more circulation, so then the cold, and then it takes the rest of the body temperature down because the blood is pumping. So that's my go-to is ice pack under the boob, left boob. Jen was very upset that I didn't swap them. Um like that I didn't put the ice pack under the right boob as well, like to even things out.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

I'm guessing that's just that's just where I thought the story was going, and then when the story finished, I was like, Oh, oh, I understand what you're doing now. It's just niche. Super, super niche. Possibly one of the most niche conversations we've ever had.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Oh genuinely makes such a difference. It's it's wonderful. It does get a little bit too cold, and you have to obviously remove it, but uh, you know, I've got a couple of rotations of ice packs. Jen has a fan on. Sorry, though this was going to be admin just for everybody. Jen also has a fan on because it's boiling, um, and I have a glass of water with ice. So if you hear, you can't hear the ice pack, um, but if you hear fan or clinking glass, you know, or ice in a glass, I'm really sorry, but it is happening, you know, and we just all have to we just have have to get past it because we're just gonna need it, and uh, and that's yeah, that's just just general admin. We are coping heat wave. Yep, and uh it brings us nicely into the topic that we're gonna talk about because neither of us are gonna boil to death as a result of the ice pack. Um, I hope we don't boil to death.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

And and I also went for a shower to cool down.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah, but Jen, how did you not boil? You know. Uh so we're going for a physics lesson today, and I can't believe we need to do this, but we're doing it. Um we're gonna talk about air convection, evaporation, and uh hosing down horses in hot weather.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Every single year this comes up.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

As long as I can remember.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Oh the horse will boil. Funnily enough, I've just not seen that happen, you know, in my entire life. Like, just doesn't seem to happen. And it's almost it's you've clearly like lived a life, Jen. It's it's it's you know, it's it's almost like it's false information, you know, it's almost like it's not true.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Um it's taking an aspect of physics and not understanding the other aspect of it. So if you haven't seen this trend, I remember it kicking about from like 2018, 2017. Like it had it's that it's you know, somebody took a picture of a horse who'd been hosed down and ones that hadn't, and then did a thermo imaging, whatever, and you know, there was a lot more hot spots, and it basically went there on fire, you know. Um, I that's the one I remember seeing in like 2017-2018. And I also remember at the time on the yard when we were coming back in from ride outs, you know, people were saying it, they were not hosing their horses down after a ride out, you know, or they were like, Oh, we've got to scrape them off because if we put them out. And I remember the yard manager at the time, and you know who it is, so you know how his voice carries, was like, hose them down, don't scrape them off, they'll be happy for the role once they get out, you know, across the yard. And I'm like, Yeah, but it's stuck, it's just one of these weird things that's that's stuck, and I'm like, you know, it is something that can really help cool horses down if you don't have an ice pack to put under their udders. Well, it doesn't work wrong.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

That is literally the wrong part of the body, yeah, and so wrong.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Um people taking that advice, and then they're standing there with their horse north, like, what is going on? Yeah, Barbara recommended it. She did not, no you know, it's human-centric, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

But yeah, it's like every year, scrape or not to scrape, the the great debate. Like, there's no debate, there's just physics, there's just is, there's just fact. There's no debate, and yeah, and we're just gonna add some more noise to the whole situation with good information. So hopefully, if you need advice, this is the one to listen to.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Yep. So I'm gonna start with like your body, and we've talked about allostasis and homeostasis in previous ones, but this is where homeostasis really comes in. It's actually really good at maintaining a certain core temperature. Um, and horses have a so, like, what's the actual correct is it what the temperature range? Thermo something range?

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Oh, thermal range. No, thermal. Oh yeah, now I've broken your brain. I'm so sorry. You have, you have. If you hadn't asked me, I would have known that.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Basically, temperature range. So, like, you know, we see this in the winter when we talk about rugging and stuff, and the joke is, you know, you see that meme going around. At least we kind of appreciate the humour in it, where it's a horse asking another horse, like, Jesus, how many rugs do you have on? So my human was cold, right? You know, because like we feel the cold so much more than the horses do, and you know, they can actually get down to quite low temperatures before they actually, you know, um, need I say, like, rugs and stuff, and obviously that depends on like rain, and we'll get into that and wet as well, because it also applies to the winter side of things and how that works for taking water, like taking heat away from you. Um, but also they've got quite a high thermal range. Oh, that's gonna annoy me now. Um, so they can actually, you know, work in quite high temperatures as well. Um, so they can cope and their body will, from a homeostasis perspective, maintain the internal body conditions, including temperature, based on the outside environment. So if it's cold, you shiver. Shiver is not necessarily a bad thing, it's a way of you maintaining homeostasis, you know. Your muscles are contracting, and that's sort of like you know, also your hair will stand up as well. We see that on horses, because that will keep more heat in, and during the winter, you know, as they lose heat through breathing, you know, as they that's another form as a moisture on your mouth and also your lungs, and it can help actually remove heat, um, as they through surface and body area, which is why horses are pretty good because surface area, how big something is, really does make a difference as well. Um, so the surface area can change, and then water and air, you know, can also support to cool. And that was today's podcast, guys. Thanks for listening. I was just giving a break, you know, in case there's anything you wanted to add, because like that, you know, that's homeostasis in a nutshell, but I'm just wondering if I missed anything.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

I think the people that I think I think the I was going through the reel I shared last year that partly partly it went big because it got caught up in America, right? And the Americans, obviously, the country is much bigger, covers far more of the globe than we do in the UK, goes far further south, and they do get affected by humidity. And this is where I think some information gets shared online that can be very confusing and actually is not incorrect, is quite correct for wherever you are in the country. So places that have it have a very high humidity, that the horse leaving the water on because the humidity is so high, evaporation can't take place. And so it's not as effective, and then there's there's they have different measures, so they need to make sure it's constant flow of cold water, misting machines, fans, so they need to put more reliance on like convection, for example.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Whereas so and that's sorry, that's convection through air because you also have through water, which is as a like where that other factor like factor comes from, which is why I was kind of explaining homeostasis, because like you're like through air, like if you have wind, you know, as say it's going to help dissipate heat faster, which again is the same during the winter as well, right? So, like so saying, like if it's very windy, we know this ourselves, you do get a bit colder because the air will remove the heat too. Like, but water is denser than air, so it's a much more highly efficient conductor, right? You know, and like again, this is you know the physics, so it means it will pull water away from your body faster. Same way if you're swimming or you're in water and you're standing, you will cool down faster, which is why we all like to go for a swim in this weather because it it will help draw it out. But again, go to the opposite for like winter, if it's a cold, windy, rainy day, it's gonna be harder for horses to maintain their internal heat and they're gonna shiver and they might need a rug. So the same is true for winter for summer, and this is where I kind of get hung up on it's like we accept it for winter, but then when it gets to the summer, we're suddenly like they'll boil. Yeah. If they were going to boil, do you know what I mean? Like, so just we, you know, that's where we need to kind of like for me, like unpick that, you know. But like evaporation is part of that. Sorry, and you're about to get onto that with the humidity. I just want to explain that to people so they kind of understand it's like if you've got water and then wind there, a water is gonna pull the heat out much faster, then the wind is going to dry faster. So, like you know, all my Irish out there, like when it's a good sunny, windy day, we're like, Oh, it's a good day for drying, like you know, for the washing, because you know, it's like I say it's a little bit windy and the clothes are wet, so it's gonna, you know, wind is brilliant for for drying clothes. Um, and uh so my top tip for washing the clothes. Um, so like this is it, and it's like so when evaporation works like for us, like when we're sweating, and the reason we sweat is like, and and I wouldn't mind just for interest, kangaroos actually lick themselves um to create that moisture, so you'll see them like lick their faces and their arms and stuff to create that film of water so it evaporates and cools up, which is very cool. Um, and like literally that's it. It's like we're trying to it's it's your body's natural way uh of trying to get rid of it, and we've evolved to do it, which is you know why sweating is important. Um the humidity level is what we'll get on to. This is a different thing, but we need to understand that principle of uh air convection, as Jen says, water and what it actually does, and how the mechanism of evaporation is working in that context to understand why humidity, high humidity levels are so dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

And thankfully, it's not something we have to worry about too much in this country, um, and that's why we can we can live by the rules of leave the water on. Um, and if you are scraping, then to keep the water flowing. So you've got I'd say, I think the Atlanta um was it the Atlanta? No, where were they? Athens, Athens Olympics, I think was one of the first ones we really saw it on TV, uh, especially for the eventing. They had the misting machines, so they had these great big tents, and the horses would come in, and it was continual flow of mist of cool water and the fans, and that's what was really helping bring the horse's heat down was the continual presence of the cool air, the cool moisture, on and off, on and off, and the wind. So all of that together.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

The eye saw it the five-star in Hartbury like a couple of years back.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Oh, yeah, it's become common practice now, it's same in Hong Kong, the Olympics there, yeah. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

They have a shaded, like they had in as a was it 2021 Jen, we were in Hartbury?

SPEAKER_02 13:05

22, 22.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

22. Um, and it was the five the three-star and the five star eventing. Um and like on the eventing day, like, you know, they didn't move around the horses as well, you know, so um, you know, in order to cope with it, because that was very war, uh, very, very warm. Um I think it was a good few of us got heat stroke as well, just with the heat. But they had a shaded area under trees, so you know, away from see like the thermal radiation, the heat uh of the sun, should I say, and then they were under the trees, and then they had all the water to hose the horses down, and then they had the fans. Do you know? So that was very much like hosing them down, and then as you say, into the fans as well to use that air flow to help cool the horses.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah. So I guess that brings us on to this whole scraping. So I think people it's the debate of to scrape or not to scrape, and the conversation that you see online about if you leave the water on, they'll boil. And we still, and I know we've we we have actually answered that question, but I'm trying to go through all the different ways that this goes incorrectly shared. Um, so if we're we're we're focusing the rest of this conversation on UK and that temperate zone, we're not talking oh, is that the zone? Temperate zone, thermal zone? Yeah, yeah. Thermal zone. Is that it for the whore? The word we were trying to map get at the start of this.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Let's let's pretend it is.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Let's pretend it is, anyway. Um, so we're not talking about humidity or other countries where the wet bulb uh temperature is way higher. We're talking about thermal zones around the UK. There is a misconception that if you leave the water on, there's a little bit of correct information that people understand that the heat is being transferred from the body of the horse into the water, and the water does warm up. We know that you can feel it yourselves, and that's your conduction, that's direct heat transfer from the body of the horse into the water. The thing is, is that water evaporating and staying on is not going to cause the boiling, it's not going to go back into the horse. And that's that's something that seems to get talked about a lot. This idea that if the horse then has this film of water all over and they're going to boil inside, but then you have evaporation, convection. Even if you're just walking the horse around, that air passing over their skin, it is happening all the time. Um, and then evaporation as well, so you don't have to worry too much. What you do see uh at competitions, especially endurance and the racing, and you'll see it, is the constant applying of water, and that's the difference if you're trying to bring the temperature down quite quickly. Leaving the water on to warm up and drip off obviously is going to be slower, and it's not so much about the scraping off. You don't need to worry about scraping off the water before you apply the fresh water, it's actually just keep applying that cold water over it because it's just gonna flush itself off, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:17

As you're just keeping the water cold, that's it, and you're allowing for that transfer to happen, and that's rapid cooling, but again, and like and this is it is your I want to take the temperature down very, very quickly and as fast as I can. So you need a constant flow of water, you know, because as as Jen says, like the water is gonna heat up going through the horse, the the horse body, and then wash off. If you keep a constant flow of water, say if you want to rapidly cool the horse, I say after endurance competition, or as well, and we know this instinctively, if we have a injury to the leg and a swelling within the first 24 to 48 hours, we want to take that swelling down. After that, it's debatable whether it actually has an impact. Um, from what I understand in the in the most, you know, like you iced, raise, elevate, compress, etc. Um, so we already know it's like and that's it, it's a constant stream because just doing it once, but you need to do all the time, you know, to get that rapid cooling, same with burns and so on and so forth, in order to take that heat away from from the from the skin. Where and I know you mentioned it there with the wet bulb dry bulb, um, and to address that because in recent years, thank you, um, you know, climate change, um, we have seen an increase in heat waves in the UK, Ireland, and Europe is suffering quite badly. And I don't think this is, and and to talk about, you know, obviously like America, because this is where the the cultural concern comes in, you know, they get kind of confused when they see our the the temperatures that we hit in Europe and see how dangerous it is for the people and that are dying as a result when we've had really bad heat waves, because they don't understand that like we don't have air conditioning the same way, like we and the same, let's say it we just don't have it. We've got old buildings that were built 200-300 years ago, you know, some of them, and the designs and most of the designs for Europe, Britain, and and Ireland like were designed to keep heat in. Oh, absolutely rather than keep heat out, and we haven't adapted to that, and then what's happening on top of that is we're getting higher humidity levels, so and then you've got deader air. So when you've got the higher humidity level and you've got the heat, then what happens is your body isn't evaporation isn't working properly, and this is the thing, it's like so you know, um, hopefully this will translate and people remember it from school when they were kids, but you know, in order to explain osmosis and how water travels through things, and hopefully this will help in this kind of analogy, like you get a glass of water and you have a bit of tissue paper or paper cardboard and you dip it into the water and you watch the water travel up the paper. You know, you've got this capillary function, right? So it gets drawn up from like the dry all the way and gets pulled into a different one. Like osmosis works similar as well, like if you mix two things together, so like if you have a cup of tea and you put a bit of milk in and you stir it, like am I going osmosis? I've confused myself now, I think. But diffusion, sorry, that's what I was trying to say. Like so thank you, Jesus, right? You know, I confuse the two together. So, you know, you're mixing them together, so like you know, until it's it's balanced. Think of the air the same way. So if you've got dry air, you know, there's always a little bit of water in the air and a little bit of moisture, but if it's at 10, 20 degrees and you're, you know, you're sweating, then the environment around you, that water can then enter that environment because it's that you know, think about say that dry bit of paper in the wet, it's gonna travel into it, you know, and it's gonna create a balance. The problem that we have, and when people and this is people as well, like and when we see the death rates during heat waves, and you know, we do lose people as a result, is because the humidity itself is at 80%. Now, 100% humidity can technically be raining because that's the whole like environment around you is saturated. Um, and if you're sweating and it's raining, I think you'll find it very hard for you to actually get dry. Um, but when the environment around you is 80% humidity, again, maybe think of sauna, right? You know, we do still sweat in a sauna, but that sweat doesn't disappear, you've got that higher level of humidity, so it cannot leave your body because the area around you is already saturated the same way, and when that's the issue that we end up having, yes, that is an issue that is increasing, like, and it can be really, really dangerous. So your evaporative cooling doesn't, you know, drops below you know that efficiency level when the humidity climbs. Um, and when I talked about AC and like air conditioning is because the way we combat that or the way we have over the years is to put like air conditioning, you know, into buildings to create that airflow and that movement, um, and using things like dehumidifiers to keep the air moving um in order to create that air movement where the the area around us is surrounded, like humidity-wise. But if we're at the point where we're looking at an 80% humidity for our horses, um, and we're concerned about them, then we're all concerned in this country, you know, and we've really hit a bad heat wave.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

And I think it's worth saying that you know 80% humidity can happen in the UK in summer. But that's when you're early morning and late and evening and overnight, when there's dew on the grass, there's moisture out there. So unless you are middle of the day to one, two, eight two in the afternoon, when it's at its hottest, right? If there is moisture on the ground, and it were in the UK, then you can start panicking. But chances are it's also raining, in which case you don't need to be panicking because there's constant water flow over your horse anyway.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

We just don't get that here.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

And also it's kind of a the reason I want to explain that as well is like it's kind of a mute moot argument as well. Because if we are still, as Jen says, like, we want to rapidly cool a horse and we take water that's coming out of the tap at four degrees or even like ten degrees, you know, and we're flowing that water over the horse, even in a human environment, water convection will still take place, you know. But it's when we are relying on just our own bodies and sweat to cool down in that situation, then we're really struggling.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Yeah. So I feel like if we keep talking, we're gonna just keep talking about the same thing over and over again. So I think I feel like honestly, and this is where I I like I just get frustrated every summer. Like we're in our temperate zone, keep the water flowing. If your horse is that hot and you'd cool them down rapidly, constant water flow, oh actually, temperature of water that's one that comes up a lot. That apparently that you know if you've got a super hot horse and you put ice water over them, they'll put them into shock.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Yeah, it's like we're conflating a couple of different things. Um I'm gonna talk about the Titanic. Uh I love the Titanic, it's a great film.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Um but that but that is a level that were that would happen.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Yeah, and like if you like you're hitting that water, you know. Um can I just do I know we did it on popular opinion, right? Just before because I mentioned Titanic real quick. Right. Can everybody get over the fucking door thing, right? You know, because it it really annoys me. I love the film. Jack says to her, don't let go. Not because he's talking about her hand, right, when he freezes to death, he's talking about it because she tried to commit suicide at some point in the film. And he says, Don't let go of that life that you have, fight on. It's talking about mental health, not whether or not they can both fit on the door and that he let go of her hand, right? Anyway, so you hit that water, Jen is silent because she's like, I have heard this one so many times. Um, it's my pet peeve, you know, not appreciating the beauty of Jack and Rose. Gonna watch that film again. What was the point that I was making? Shock.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

I mean, at this point, I feel like we should be switching the podcast to like some aquatic mixed. I mean, last week it was jellyfish, now it's thermal rezones in the sea. I mean, I'm I'm for it. I skip it out as well. I'm all for it. Um, yeah, send us a message. Would you like that? No, we're joking, right? Back to ice water. No, but yeah, back to ice water, right? Temperature of water. So we've done our cross country or an endurance, it's 28 degrees, horse is blowing and it's hot. Are we worried about the temperature of the water of the buckets? I want to visualize we're throwing buckets of water over this horse to cool it down. Are we worried about the temperature of the water?

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Well, the chances are if there's buckets of water in the environment that's there, it's going to come. Do you know what I mean? The water is gonna come to the like it's going to be warmer, you know, it's not gonna come out like frozen, you know, it's gonna be at like 10-15 degrees already, probably if it's been sitting there. And I'm so glad you said that.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

I'm so glad you said that, right? Because this is what goes through my mind when I see these conversations on social media, because I'm just like, who has a chest of ice on their yard ready with ice water? Like, we don't have it, nobody has an ice bath for their horse. So even if it's cold tap water, it's not freezing ice cold water. It's it's probably not as cold as you think.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Also, we put horses in hydrotherapy stuff um and submerge them, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Yeah, but we're not doing that straight after cross country.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

No, it's fair enough. I mean, I wonder if somebody is somewhere. Maybe they are. Um who knows? Just to let you know, my ice pack is fully melted.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

I'm I'm so glad it was on all of our minds.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Yeah, I know. I just wanted to let everybody know. Um, but I'm nice and cool and I haven't boiled to death.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Um, yes, in comparison, I have a sleepy puppy who is getting closer and closer and cuddling and cuddling, and I'm roasting.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Just yeah, you're gonna have to change that situation. Uh, did we answer? Did we do a good physics lesson? Um I think we just what's our take home?

SPEAKER_02 27:32

I think we just need to conclusively say no, you don't need to be worrying about the temperature of the water because chances are you are not throwing your horse into an ice bath straight after cross-country or straight after your endurance or whatever it is you're doing. The whatever's coming out your hose or your tap or your buckets of water is probably not as cold as you think it is, and the most important thing will be continual application of water, get their temperature down, get their breathing back to normal, offer them a drink. Again, your water is probably not as cold as you think it is.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

And you're better off cool your horse down, like if you were concerned, rather than worry that you shouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Oh, and surface area. Sorry, they're all popping into my head now. This is a um people are focusing on like the groin area or the head or the neck, just surface area, just all the whole thing, don't worry about focusing on one area, just get the whole as much surface area done, just keep it going.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Because again, it's like as the star, this is like you know, if you've got a larger surface area, you will be able to regulate yourself a bit better, like you know, so like if you can cover everything in water, you know, don't if the your horses want to be sprayed in the face, don't spray in the face, like you know, let's be be sensible here. Um, you know, I I feel like I don't have to say it, but I really think I need to see it.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Oh, you know, you need to see it because I see so often people like talk to you guys.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

You guys are great, you would never, you know, not our loyal, dedicated fans and listeners, you would never do it. Um, we're talking about somebody else. Um, but yeah, like literally just cover the cover surface area. Um, yeah. Did we do it?

SPEAKER_02 29:20

I feel like we did it. I feel like we did it.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Don't say pod. Um, well, onwards and upwards. I'm gonna go get another ice pack and uh we'll see you in the next one.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Perfect. Right. Well, thanks guys. See you soon.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Bye.