The SkillsWave Podcast

Unlocking Hidden Talent—The Power of Skills-Based Hiring | Denise Leaser

• SkillsWave • Season 2 • Episode 3

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In this episode, we sit down with Denise Leaser, President of MyInnerGenius®, to explore how organizations can unlock hidden potential in job candidates, employees, and students. Together, we unpack what it takes to improve workforce readiness, drive internal mobility, and build more engaged, agile teams. Our conversation focuses on the power of aligning individual strengths, interests, and aptitudes with meaningful career opportunities to enhance retention and job fit. We also examine how data-driven tools can surface untapped talent—especially among those who may not follow traditional career paths but have the potential to excel. If you're looking to upskill your workforce and tap into overlooked capabilities within your organization, this is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

Intro:

Welcome to The SkillsWave Podcast, where we explore the challenges and innovations in corporate learning.

 SkillsWave is redefining workforce transformation with its free AI-powered upskilling and education benefits platform.

 

Sasha:

Hello, I'm Sasha Thackaberry-Voinovich. I am joined by Denise Leaser, president at MyInnerGenius®. She has developed a groundbreaking career-matching and workforce readiness solution that helps organizations unlock hidden potential in job candidates, employees and students. Today, we're going to explore how HR leaders can leverage data-driven career navigation tools to boost retention, improve job fit and create targeted career pathways, especially for employees who may lack traditional experience or traditional credentials but really have that potential to excel.

Denise, welcome. We are so happy to have you here on The SkillsWave Podcast. 

 

Denise: 

Thank you. I'm honored to be here. 

 

Sasha: 

So I wanted to just jump off with a little bit about you. Can you share some of your background and what really inspired you to focus on skills-based hiring and talent assessments? 

 

Denise:

Yeah, I started out with kind of a traditional pathway into HR-related careers and I worked in corporate and I worked as a consultant. And then I ended up going back to school to get advanced degrees in industrial psychology and specifically, related to evaluation, measurement and research. So really focused on creating tools that really work, provide value and really solve a real need. So I really took that combination of real world experience and being on the other side as a consultant, really being able to analyze what people need, and then have that experience with the academic side of it and the research side of it to really be able to pull it all together in, I think, our unique way to really create real solutions that work.

 

Sasha:

That's fascinating. Yes. You're talking to a recovering academic as well, so I'm a big fan of like combining that sort of research background and rigor of assessments along with, you know, how you can make all of that actually work in the world of work. So and to that, nice segue here right.

So how are companies really thinking about degrees versus skills? You know, we hear a lot about skills-based hiring, but then the data actually shows that people are still hiring by degree or still, even if the degree isn't a requirement, they sort of default to the degree being the signal for having that competency or having that skill. So why do you think that is in companies? And then how do we shift that mindset? 

 

Denise:

I think there's two things going on. One is that people, when they put together a—and both of them are working against their ultimate objective and they don't realize that—one is when they're putting together job requisitions or job descriptions, they're putting together a wish list. Like, if I could pick the ideal person, this is everything I'd love to have. And what that's doing is it's really working against them because it's excluding a lot of people that would be great candidates because they don't have the exact things that they're looking for. But they have lateral skills, or they have different kinds of experience that are being missed and not picked up by that.

Also, there's a lot of research that shows that certain groups of people tend to not even apply for a job if they don't feel like they meet at least 80% of what's on the job description. And then there's other groups that are like, hey, I'm 60% of the way there, I'm going to go ahead and apply. And so what ends up happening is that creates bias in the whole process and that's working really ultimately against—they're not getting the great, the people that would be a great fit. And they're excluding people kind of arbitrarily. 

The other thing that's happening is that companies love the idea of skills-based tools and skills-based programs, but they don't know how to do it. They don't understand how to actually apply it. And we saw this, you know, in the consulting days, that people were so back, you know, we're going back a few years when everything was competency-based. You know, a few decades ago, everything was like competency-based, competency-based that. We've changed the language to skills-based, but the same things apply that people would be like, I love the idea of competency-based, they'd hire consultants, they'd spend a lot of money, bring them in, and at the end they'd have a pretty binder that they'd put on their shelf and it would collect dust because they didn't understand how to actually take that information and apply it. Today we're running into the same thing with skills-based. And, people are like, I love the idea, but I don't really understand how I can apply it in my organization, how I can sell people on it, etc. And as a result, they're afraid to step forward and start a new initiative because it's kind of navigating the unknown and they're nervous doing it.

I think the other thing that we're finding is that as you said, people are using degrees as a proxy of having some kind of work ethic. If they can get through college, then I know that they at least have work ethic and they have initiative and drive and they have persistence and that are things I'm looking for and I don't know how else to find it. 

And with that, so I think they don't understand how they can use other tools that are in the marketplace today that will really help them bridge that so they have more confidence. Because right now it's going outside the box is risky for them, and they don't know how to mitigate that risk, by how do I know what I can use as a different proxy if somebody doesn't have the degree. Even if it's like you see, a lot of job descriptions are like any degree, it doesn't even matter what degree it is. So they don't know, like, what can I, if I'm not using a degree as a proxy for experience or some of these skills I'm looking for, then what can I use? And they don't know what is out there that they can use. And so that it's a risky, risky to give somebody a chance that doesn't have the all of the experience and pedigree and circumstances that they're looking for.

 

Sasha: 

I think pedigree is a really interesting term, right? Because that like the brand proxy is very interesting, especially from an assessment background like you are, like that's not an objective measurement of someone's skills or competencies or whatever, you know whatever verbiage is a word de jour, right. It is interesting because I come from an arts background, if you go far enough back, and so many of those skills are really transferable skills, right.

If you can be a stage manager and be good at managing, you know, the production schedule; there is no pushing opening night, right? That's like not a thing. So you have to stay on point. And we see so much demand for project managers now. Well that's a transferable skill set. Maybe it's different tools you're using. But you know, it's that combination of driven by deadlines, being able to execute and working with a lot of different personalities. If you can work with, you can work with all different kinds of actors and dancers and musician, you know, you’re golden in a corporation for sure. But how do you, how do you get past that sort of like hump of a hiring manager, right? How do you get people to see that those are transferable skills?

It's a really interesting time. I love that we're having the conversation though about skills versus degrees, right. Because the one is not really providing equal opportunity to folks who could really bring huge value to businesses. And I think that, that sort of brings us to our next topic, which is a lot of people struggle with that, with that career transition piece or, you know, a lateral move to maybe make a forward move, how do people sort of get over that maybe lack of confidence or how do they make themselves stand out from a visibility standpoint? And, and how does that intersect with your tools? How does that help people see potential? 

 

Denise: 

So I think that's such a big area. This is such an important topic and there's so much to it. You've got issues with people not understanding their own skill set and knowing how to communicate it to others. You've got people that can't see it and don't understand what questions or what to look for in order to kind of uncover it. You've got lack of the desired experience and people not understanding how to identify things like stage manager or technical writer as those lateral skills that are, you know, being able to resource and work with different personalities and manage and be stress-tolerant and identify, you know, being able to meet deadlines and detail orientation, all that stuff that they don't understand what those are. And nobody can be an expert on every job out there. So if somebody applies with a job and they say stage manager, somebody is not, that doesn't understand what a stage manager does, isn't going to be able to identify what those skills are that they might have that can be transferable. So there's just there's so much to it.

And I think, what I love about the whole idea of skills-based is that you're helping people understand their own self-concept, understand what it is that they can do, understand what those skills are, how to communicate them, bring them out in the open so other people can see them. Because most people are in jobs where they they're not defined by that job. They are not just that job. They are, there's still much more to that person than what they're doing day-to-day on that job. But if they're not demonstrating it on the job, nobody else sees it. And sometimes the person themselves doesn't see it either. 

So if you can use tools, like assessments, digital badges and credentials, different types of things that can help make those more visible, you're unlocking a beautiful thing for an individual. You're unlocking, you're helping them understand themselves better, and how their skill set relates to different types of careers. Most people might say, like, I'm good at X, Y or Z, but I know what kinds of careers that would apply to. So you're unlocking all that with all these great tools that are out in the marketplace today to help people understand lateral skills and how they apply to the different jobs and apply, understand how to recognize skills using alternative methods like digital credentials or assessments.

And then that helps them build their self-confidence. It helps them build their self-concept. It raises self-esteem. It helps them feel like they're being seen because so many people, if you look at a lot of the surveys of employee satisfaction and engagement surveys, people don't feel like they're seen. They don't feel like they're valued. They don't feel like they're being appreciated for all of the skills that they have.

And it's not necessarily at the employer's fault. It's because they don't know that they exist. So all these other things help bring those to the light, helped uncover that hidden skill set and also identifies potential. And that's one of the things I love about the new tools that are out there is they’re really about how do we help people identify what their potential is and can we uncover that? Can we help them discover that? Can we help them grow and develop in areas that maybe traditionally people thought, you know, were pretty stagnant? They couldn't be developed after a certain age. And now we know these skills can continue to develop over time. So how do we help people identify where they can spend their time and dollars, where companies can focus their time and dollars, where it will have the greatest impact, be needed the most and help to develop their employee base?

And that's the other thing that employees are saying is driving turnover and dissatisfaction is that they're not being given opportunities to grow. And I think using these targeted tools can really help employers develop targeted training programs. It's not a one size fits all. They're very prescriptive, and that saves time and money and also helps people feel recognized and valued.

 

Sasha: 

Absolutely, absolutely. One of our partners had said a few months ago, it's really a one size fits one approach, right? 

 

Denise: 

I love that. Yeah. 

 

Sasha:

Keeping it personalized keeps it relevant. And what you were just talking about in terms of employee engagement, it's almost, you know, everybody talks about what's their NPS score and how engaged are their employees, which is I mean that's a good metric to keep, absolutely. But the ROI of a person leaving isn't just filling that job, like the cost of filling that job versus the cost of upskilling that person, it is also the hidden talent that you don't even know you have leaving the company. Right. And I think that's so important, especially in this day and age. 

But folks are having to learn skills faster than ever before. And I think some of these assessment tools, some of these matching tools really gets to what, given the fact that you have the pace of learning has sped up, what is the right learning so that you're not spending a lot of time on the things that matter less, right. Like we talk a lot about targeting our time and attention on the things that matter most in the business. And I think a lot of businesses think that way, but maybe we're not peeling it back enough to make it specific and explicit and actionable. 

And, the other thing I love that you just said and I wrote it down—I always take notes when I'm doing this. I should’ve warned you—was stress tolerance. You know, that's a really interesting thing, because in this sort of age of all of this rapid transformation and how AI is going to really impact almost everything, that stress tolerance is no joke. I mean, can I can I throw a curveball at you and ask you to just share a little bit more about, like, what's your interpretation of stress tolerance and how do you think that fits into the workplace? 

 

Denise: 

Well, I think, it's interesting because, you know, when we developed our tools, we built that in because we recognized the really critical importance and it's often overlooked. So I'm glad that you're pointing that out because it is so important. And stress tolerance has to do with, there's an element of adaptability and resilience to it, which is what people tend to focus on. Are people adaptable and resilient? And there's an aspect of it that affects stress tolerance. If you're not adaptable, you're not resilient, you're going to have a harder time. But it's more than that. It's staying positive. It's not getting thrown for a loop if something happens. It's being able to keep a cool head and be able to handle stress without having it shut you down. So many people, when they get into stressful situations, they get overwhelmed and they start shutting down, instead of saying, I'm going to take—I'm going to be optimistic. I'm going to take a positive attitude, and I'm going to do it, and I'm going to push through. And I know it's not—it's temporary and I can handle this. And that kind of mindset is so important, especially in today's fast-changing, fast-paced world.

You know, it used to be like the cycle change was like every three years or something. And then it went to one year, and then it went to six months, and now it's like three weeks or three days. So things are changing very fast in today's workforce, and people need to be able to handle it, and they need to be able to handle it well. That requires stress tolerance. Without that, you're going to have a lot of issues. But these are things that people can develop tools and ways to address it. 

So mindset is really an interesting thing. Mindset’s an aspect of personality traits. So you're really getting at values, personality traits, values, beliefs, attitudes. And so a lot of people have thought over the years that these things can't change. They're set in stone. If you have this type of personality, it's going to stay that but that we're finding that's not true. People can develop these things, but it has to be intentional. You're not going to all of a sudden become a stress tolerant overnight just because you want to be or, you know, it has to be intentionally developed. But there are great tools and systems out there now for developing these things, so that you can increase the skills that you have in the areas related to personality that people used to think you couldn't. But it has to be intentional. It's not going to change on its own. But if you intentionally go in and change and you try it, you apply yourself to change these things, you can grow in these areas and you can also learn tools and different ways to cope using other types of mechanisms to be able to help you with it. Again, you have to learn those, but they can be learned. And that's exciting thing. 

 

Sasha:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a super valuable skill. Right. Like when we talked about KSADs, knowledge, skills, abilities and dispositions. All of those are malleable, right? Some of them are harder to measure than others, but they really are measurable. So that's super interesting. I think we need an entire episode on stress, stress tolerance. There's actually productive stress, right? Like there's a certain range in which you need the appropriate level of challenge. I can talk about— 

 

Denise:

Right? It gets the adrenaline going and yeah, yeah.

 

Sasha: 

Yeah.

 

Denise: 

It's like anything, it's balance though, right. So there's a good side and a bad side to everything. And what you want to be is stay in that middle. Utilize the good side. Downplay the bad side. 

 

Sasha:

Yeah. Find the zone, right.

 

Denise: 

Yeah, find the zone. Yeah, exactly. 

 

Sasha:

So, we're sort of concluding our time here. Can you tell me one key takeaway that you want our listeners to remember about skills, skills-based hiring, talent assessment. Give us a little, a nugget of your wisdom to take with us. 

 

Denise:

There's so much. It's hard to whittle it down to one, but I would say, you know, I could share with you some examples of people, people's whose lives have changed and changed dramatically because somebody gave them a chance and somebody gave them a chance because they recognize their skills and they didn't have a degree. They didn't have the right experience. They maybe weren't in the right zip code, but somebody was able to give them a chance because they recognized what that person could do because of things like assessments and digital credentials and that really profoundly changed people's lives. And to me, that's why I get up in the morning and I love what I do is because I know that it's making a difference.

And if I could share one nugget, it would be, look at people for everything they can do. Don't look in the rearview mirror. Look forward. Look at the possible. Look at the potential. And if you can use tools, and AI can help with this. Assessments can help digital credentials. There's so many tools out there now that can really help you discover and uncover things. You can change the world one person at a time. Make a big difference. Give people opportunities. You know, everybody talks about, you know, equity and all of these things, but they don't really know how to do it and now these tools, you know, technology can be used for good. It can be used for bad. Right? But one of the great things about the tools that we have now is it's not just a talking point to talk about equity. It's not just a talking point. We can actually do it. 

So we really have tech for good now where we can take these things and help identify them, help people see them, recognize them, and it's helping the person. It's also helping the company. So it's really a win-win. And I love that that, you know, so many tools and things that are out there are like, well, it's either for the company, it's for the employee. This is for both. Yeah. And I just the things that I've seen with the lives that have changed because of this. And it's generational. If you can get somebody out of poverty, it's they're out of poverty for life. Their family, they're generationally out of poverty. Those are the things that that, I wish people could see. And if you keep an open mind and look at what's out there, you'll be able to actually implement these programs that are really making these differences. 

 

Sasha:

I could not agree more that the fact that education, personal development, all of this is, is truly life changing, and it's a huge competitive advantage for businesses if you can also become stress tolerant as a business and resilient as a business, you're going to be ahead of the game because we're dealing with a lot of change right now. 

So thank you so much, Denise. I really appreciate it. It was a fantastic—our short discussion. I want to have another one already. It's all about this shift from traditional external hiring to really tapping into the strengths of that existing workforce, but both for the person, right, and also for the company. So it's been a pleasure having you on our podcast and thank you so much.

 

Denise: 

Great. Thank you so much.

 

Outro:

Thanks for listening to the SkillsWave podcast. If you're looking to streamline how employees discover, request and register for high-impact upskilling while making education benefits easier to manage, visit SkillsWave.com to see how the free-to-use platform works.