Supporting Modern Mom-Life: 3 Ways to Create Equality in Your Relationship with Fair Play and Lauren Tetenbaum

Tired of being in charge all the time? Burning with resentment over the load you carry? Wish your partner would step up?

Discover how to build a fairer relationship and home with the Fair Play method.

Join licensed social worker and fierce advocate for women and girls, Lauren Tetenbaum, as she uncovers the hidden barriers to equality and how you create more equity at home!

1. Reflection
2. Communication
3. Seek support (from each other and professionals)

In this episode, we delve into the vital conversations around household responsibilities and equip you with the tools to navigate these challenging discussions. Lauren empowers us to assertively and positively communicate, challenging gender stereotypes that impact our mental well-being.

Ah Ha Moments:

• It's likely that your partner isn't bad guy/gal, it's, they way we are all conditioned.
• Gender doesn't determine being "better" or "not capable" at the domestic stuff
• How seeking support and reshaping the rules can lead to more balanced homes and societies
• How to boldly ask for help

Mentionable's:
Buy the Fair Play Book
Follow Lauren on IG

About
Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C is an advocate and therapist who specializes in supporting millennial and young women through life transitions, including professional and personal identity shifts. She is the go-to resource for women seeking empowerment and connection. With an approach grounded in empathy and emotional intelligence, Lauren counsels clients on relationships, dating and intimacy, careers, pregnancy and parenting, and family dynamics. She offers cognitive behavioral and feminist psychotherapy to individuals and couples to address anxiety and achieve gender equality. A mother of two with a decade of experience in the legal industry, including as a BigLaw immigration attorney, Lauren also provides coaching and consulting to support parents in corporate settings via groups and workshops. She is passionate about building connections and giving back to her community in the New York City area and beyond. Lauren is frequently featured on women's wellness and motherhood platforms and works with Hello Sunshine (Reese Witherspoon's media company) to train executives and other mental health professionals in Eve Rodsky's Fair Play method.

Transcript

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 0:00

Welcome Lauren to the Chill Like a Mother podcast. I am so happy that we are here having this conversation and catching up again after my fair play training. And how about you go ahead and tell everybody how you ended up, how you and I ended up to be here together, maybe?

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 0:20

Sure, I would love to Hi everyone.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 0:22

I am Lauren Tuttenbaum.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 0:24

I am a social worker licensed in New York and Connecticut, although a big fan of the Canadian friends and colleagues that we have here.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 0:33

I'm also a mom of two. My kids are seven and four and a half, and I'm a former lawyer, always an advocate for women and girls, and I came across the fair play method back during the early days of quarantine. I felt like someone was finally hearing me, seeing me, and I chose to focus on supporting women and moms through a clinical private practice in which I provide therapy and coaching, and one of the tools that I use in my practice is the fair play method, which was created by Ivorodsky, and I became one of the first certified facilitators, and since that certification, I have been not only using the method with my clients, friends and own households, which I definitely do, but I also work with their play and Hello Sunshine to train other mental health professionals like Kayla, and it's such a pleasure to broaden our community and get to know each other, working and living in different areas, but really all being a part of the mission to create more equitable homes and societies.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 1:43

And on a real, practical level, how does this unfold when we think about gender stereotypes and just the so, so prevalent anxiousness that moms can feel? How? If somebody was to ask you today, what is? Three things that I can do in my self or in my relationship to support the modern life that we're all living.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 2:13

Great question. I would say it starts with reflecting on what's working for you. What's I? In my own households, for example, I enjoy doing a little gendered, and that's okay, because it's actually what we prefer doing. So you know that works for us and that's something that we have reflected on and engaged in self assessments on, not just kind of taking it for granted.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 2:45

So, number one reflection. Number two communication, which goes a long way. Right, we talk in the fair play method about the fact that we are already communicating, even if it feels like we're not, even if we're just, you know, leaving a bunch of dirty dishes in the sink and not talking about how they're getting put away. But leaving them in the sink is a form of communication. So communicating about what you're reflecting on, right. And that leads me to number three, which is find and seek support.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 3:22

Ask for help. Maybe I always like doing the laundry, but I'm having a really hectic week at work and I can't get to it. Or, you know, my son's baseball uniform needs to be ready by tomorrow and I'm stuck in a meeting or whatever it is. So in the fair play method we call that re dealing the deck. On a broader level, I definitely encourage people to seek support from not only friends, family, loved ones, but, of course, professional support as well, because we all need it. Moms in particular, as I know you know, are at risk of anxiety issues, of peri-needle mood and anxiety disorders, and it's okay to ask for help. We all need it. We really do.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 4:05

What do you find are some of the common kind of barriers or messages that people will tell themselves when they're in that like, they're in that pathway of like. Okay, I know that, I know that what's happening is not working, but I don't know how to ask for help because of you know X, Y and Z. What are some of the common barriers that you kind of hear from people?

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 4:31

I hear a lot of shoulds.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 4:34

Well.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 4:34

I should be able to do this. I should be able to volunteer at 11am at my child's school because I'm the mom and that's what's expected of me. I should be making a healthy and nutritious packed lunch, because I'm the mom and that's what's expected of me. And yet, you know, I might hate cooking and really prefer that my kid get the school lunch or whatever it might be. I should be fitting into the genes that I wore 20 years ago. All of these shoulds really create pressure, stress, feelings of isolation and inadequacy that often come up as barriers for seeking support because of these expectations that we not only put on ourselves but society puts on us as women and moms.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 5:29

And in the Fair Play method there are several toxic time messages. Do you want to talk for a minute about like the shoulds and how some of those things are connected to those toxic time messages where we might not even realize why we believe a certain thing?

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 5:47

Yeah, toxic time messages, the idea, you've coined the term. They come from these cultural expectations, and that is to say that, while my individual household, your individual household, might operate a certain way, we're not here to blame, you know, our partners, our husbands, etc. It's not about the individual, it's about the societal constructs and the messages that we've all been conditioned in our culture to believe in, to uphold as truths, and they're not truths, they're perceptions, and their perceptions forced upon us by, you know, the people in power, by the patriarchy. I will go ahead and say so. For example, one of them is you know, my hours are worth less than my husband's because my salary is less. So, if you do quote, unquote, crunch the numbers. Truly. Yes, you know, an hour at my husband's job, for example, is higher in terms of dollars than an hour in my job.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 6:54

We constantly saw that during the early days of COVID, when women were cutting back or dropping out of the paid labor force altogether because someone had to be home with the kids or homeschooling them or what have you. And even when the partners let's assume a mom and dad had every intention of making an equitable household, of mom pursuing her career, etc. When it came down to who earned more. Whose job was you know more quote unquote important. It was played out as the whoever earned the most, which tends to be the man in North American, and that is true in terms of the fact that typically, men earn more.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 7:44

Now, is the dollar value the only value to that hour? I say no. I also say that there are many reasons that the man tends to earn more. Right, we know that men earn more than women, even for the same exact role, and that's due to gender pay gaps, to motherhood penalty, etc. And combating this toxic time message in particular can be tricky because, of course, money, income is very important. But if you really break it down and think about what else can be valuable here, is it mom's ability to have financial independence? Is it her identity beyond being a mother? Is it the fact that if she does drop out of the workforce now, she might not be able to re answer? All of those things also add value, and so the idea the message of my hour is less valuable than yours, it doesn't hold true.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 8:48

And what would you say to somebody if that was their belief? To start unlearning some of that?

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 8:57

Yeah, this is a tricky one. The research shows that the emotional attachment for vulnerable populations is much more important than the logistical items like a home, et cetera. And then, of course, we're talking about a home. But is it necessary to work so hard that you're earning money for your family but then you're not even spending time with them, right? And that's something to think about. I don't want to be naive and say money doesn't matter, it's us. People need homes, they need to make their rent payments and car payments and take vacations and all of those extras as well.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 9:44

But for a client that came to me and said, well, I always prioritize my husband's time over my own because he earns more, I would say, well, how is that working for you? Because presumably, look, if they're a potential client or a current client, it's not. And they're coming to me with some feelings of perhaps resentment, anxiety, loss of identity. Those are the issues that I see a lot. But I would say, does that feel good to you? And we all run into trouble. I think when we say, well, unequivocally or always, his hours are more valuable than mine, maybe sometimes right, or in certain contexts. But I think if you add in that flexibility in thinking about what is value. Why is it valuable? Then you can come to understand the idea of time and value in a different way.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 10:48

Yeah, I run into this a lot, which is why I took the Fair Play Training was because we'd be working together and we'd always get to this point of I don't have any time, I'm not allowed to go to yoga, or I just don't go because it's easier or it's too hard to organize X, y and Z, and we'll get into the real granular details about it. It's often that both partners are not valuing that time, and some either. Often it's unconscious and unintentional, even it doesn't nobody even thinks twice about an eight day fishing trip, but mom can't even get to yoga once a week for an hour. And so there's those.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 11:46

I think those time messages exist for both genders and even in my own relationship, this very distinct memory I have of my oldest being about, I would say, about 18 months, like daycare age, and my husband had the day off and I went to work and I came home and everything was in the exact same spot as when we left in the morning, like toys were still on the floor, breakfast was still on the table and I just had this moment and it was one of these like anti-Brené Brené Brown moments of like the conversation just went perfectly and I said by you not picking all of this stuff up on your day off?

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 12:31

You are unintentionally saying that it's my job and he was just like, well, I didn't. It was like this real epiphany moment and I was in a compassionate space and I just said I know that you're not doing it on purpose, but it's the lack of even any kind of action that says to me you are saying to me, she'll just do it when she gets home from work, it's not a valuable thing away from me to spend my time.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 13:04

Yeah, and I really appreciate that story and I will also assume that you understood. It wasn't because he's a bad guy, right, it's, he's conditioned, we're all conditioned to assume that the mom is, you know, the default household manager, right? Some people say that with pride, I run the household, I'm the household CEO. If that's what works for that family unit, that's great. You and I, in our work, come across the women for whom that is not working and I would say that in general, we see, culturally, we see, you know, it is a pretty common experience to feel resentment when something like that happens, even if mom or wife or whomever takes pride in. Yeah, maybe she is, you know, more organized and I'm doing air quotes for those who can't see but also, maybe she's just more organized because she's had more opportunities, more practice organizing, and if dad has never even thought about the toy drawer, he's less organized. But it doesn't have to be that way. He's not born with some, you know, lack of deficit in organization, presumably.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 14:26

Yeah, yeah, gender. Gender does not determine your skill or ability to do something or gain skills, right, like? I know lots of women who hate cooking, but they do it because that's just what they are taught to do, or their mother did, or their grandmother did, or whatever. When, in fact, if, if, that is a place where she did want to offload some responsibility, potentially there's a partner in waiting who would love to cook.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 15:01

Yeah.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 15:02

Yeah.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 15:03

Yeah, and it's the language that we all use we as a, as a culture, as a society is really important because people assume and we all know what you know assuming risks right Making. You know people assume that mom's the one grocery, shopping and cooking and all of the things, and you know it's 2023. And I think that that's a really old trope that needs to be put to bed.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 15:32

Yeah, yeah For sure. So let's say, let's say somebody listening has had an aha moment and they're like, yeah, resentment, check, you know needing to go through those three steps that you said. The reflection communication, you know, find and enlist some support If we like went into just the reflection piece, someone's feeling resentment, they want to reflect on how they can potentially make some change. Is there some like journal prompt or some kind of writing or reflection, you know question or a couple of questions that you would suggest People kind of tune into their body sensations and really check in to see, you know, where are some places that they could reflect on making some change.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 16:18

Yeah, I love this question. I am CBT oriented cognitive behavioral therapy so I really like Worksheets and checking in with ourselves on what is triggering our emotions, whether that is Anger, whether that is overwhelmed, whether it's frustration, whatever it is, noticing the emotion, noticing what triggered it and Then trying to reframe how we can think about something. The example that you just gave. One Person might say, you know, react with anger. They might Lash out and yell or burst into tears and say you know what the f? Why, why didn't you pick up today and all of those things? You articulated that? You came at it from a compassionate standpoint, which I think is, you know, beautiful and and and, by the way, therapists of course get angry and upset, sometimes too Exactly. But you know, as a client, you know, I would work with that person and say, well, what would would be a generous interpretation of what was going on for him, right, and we would come up with a neutral way of interpreting, which is that it, you know, it sounds like it just didn't occur to him.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 17:33

That is still a frustrating yes to be, but there's a total, full of like just fiery rage, of just the responsibility that it he didn't, it didn't even occur to them, right? And so there's like there's a wide breadth of feelings that that are allowed, you know, across the spectrum of even reflecting and coming into that reframing or giving the most generous assumption, you can still feel frustrated at that. The most generous thing that you can come Up with can still be really frustrating.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 18:05

Absolutely, and it's not about getting rid of the emotion, it's about managing it effectively. Right, and I think the idea that it didn't occur to him is one with which we can work. Okay, it's a current team now right, and using I statements, you know, to go to the Part two, which is communicating. I feel like you don't appreciate when I clean up, or the fact that you have created this dynamic in which I am the default cleaner. You know, I I really don't like cleaning up, actually, or I do like cleaning up, but I really didn't have time today or this week. You know, could you please and could we consistently try to check in and Talk about you know who? Who's holding the card, who's on duty for this?

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 18:54

Maybe, maybe you prefer to clean every Sunday, but maybe in your minimum standard of care, which is the Fair Play terminology. You know, there comes a certain point if, like you, don't see the floor anymore where someone has to clean it, no matter what day of the week it is or whatever it might be, and then that's, you know that could be his job as the During the week cleaner upper, whatever it is. Everyone's Task and way of executing can look different, and that's fine. But when you share a household with someone or caregiving responsibilities with someone, it's important to communicate about what is working and what it means to do the task to completion.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 19:44

Can we really quickly address a Relationship that would not feel safe to bring up this kind of conversation? So you know, one party has done the reflection. The next step would potentially be communication or creating that kind of change in what way what needs to be present in a relationship for even that communication to go to a place where it would be positive.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 20:11

Yeah, well, I mean, there certainly has to be safety and there has to be comfort in Articulating your needs. I would say that if your partner is Totally not receptive to hearing your needs, to hearing your preferences, to really hearing you, you know whether you're saying I just can't clean up anymore, I need you to pitch in or I'll do something else. Whatever it is, if they are refusing to hear you, I think that that reflects a difference in in values that Needs to be addressed in a deeper way. You know we are talking about years of social conditioning. So I would say, if you try to bring it up and the initial conversation or conversations plural Don't go smoothly.

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 21:04

I don't think that that is necessarily alarming, but I would have my eyes and ears open to a willingness to Not only make change but just to to hear you, because Even if your partner is, you know, really opposed to cleaning the room, which is ridiculous, but let's just say, for the sake of this argument, if you're sitting there and saying, this means a lot to me, you know, please hear me and my feelings. And they won't. I think we have bigger issues.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 21:37

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I think inviting somebody into a conversation doesn't always mean that they're going to be willing to be part of the conversation. We talk about timing and appropriateness, like having a screaming match in front of the children about cleaning the room. It's communication, but everybody's heightened and it's probably not going to go as well as it would If you invited, if there was as much intention brought into the invitation into that conversation.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 22:14

And for couples who, for me, what's worked for some of my clients is sometimes texting can be a bit easier than that face-to-face, especially if that person is a shift worker or they're gone for long stretches of time for work and you really need them to do X, y and Z when they get home. Or simply, I had a client who told her partner like you need to come in the door happy. You are gone from this house for 12 to 18 hours a day and you can no longer come into this house grumpy and angry. You need to do whatever you need to do to get into this house and be pleasant and happy to see everyone. And it wasn't that he wasn't happy to see everyone, he just needed the boundary to be set of like it is no longer acceptable that you walk into the door and you're just grumpy as all shit and we have to then deal with that after you've been gone all day for days and days and days on end.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 23:11

And so the you know having I talk to my clients a lot about having the audacity to communicate positively and in a way that serves you. Because, for women, we have been told all kinds of things about being bitchy and demanding and all kinds of things when we're being straightforward and assertive. And so you, if you haven't granted yourself that permission, consider granting yourself that permission, because it really does take a lot of digging down deep and aligning your household with your values, reflecting on what you want and need and communicating together. And, like Lauren said, if the communication is routinely, repetitively not going in a positive direction, then it's time to elicit some support, whether that's paid, informal, online learning, podcasts there's definitely, in today's day and age, just a wealth of resources along the spectrum of free to paid. So, lauren, thank you for being here. Any closing remarks that you'd like to share with us today?

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 24:33

Thank you so much for having me. I will say that you know we are talking about big issues, right? Cultural expectations. There might be even more nuanced cultural expectations. Perhaps you grew up in a religious household where you know the woman was doing all of the cooking and the holidays, or whatever it might be, and maybe that's also something that you don't want to change. But again, check in with yourself. Is it? Are you feeling resentful? Are you feeling exhausted?

Lauren A. Tetenbaum, LMSW, JD, PMH-C: 25:01

Presumably, the partner that you chose you chose for a reason because they are compassionate, because they are your teammate, your partner, and it goes a long way to think from. Well, you know they want me to clean up because they're a jerk to. They just didn't think about it. Let's learn together, right? Let's approach this collaboratively. Let's take it one step at a time. We don't need to figure out cleaning up the playroom for the rest of our lives, but at least maybe for this week and let's continue to communicate with each other and, like you said, you know, get help where we need it. We all need it. You are not alone. If this sounds like a lot, kayla and I are right here with you and happy to help.

Kayla Huszar, BSW, RSW, PMH-C: 25:44

Yeah, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you.