Truly Expat Podcast

Episode 67: Expats Worldwide: Expert Tips for Managing Expat Divorce Finances with Sherryn Hancock

• Truly Expat Lifestyle Blog by Paula & Rachel • Episode 67

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Navigating the Financial Complexities of Expat Divorces with Sherryn Hancock

In this episode of the Truly Expat Podcast, host interviews Sherryn Hancock, a CPA with over 30 years of experience, specializing in financial matters related to expat divorces. Sherryn discusses her journey of moving to Hong Kong, the unique challenges and benefits of living there as an expat, and the intricacies of managing financial settlements across different legal systems during a divorce. She emphasizes the importance of financial literacy, understanding one's current and future financial needs, and preparing adequately for life changes such as divorce or the death of a spouse. Sherryn shares insights on the importance of consulting accountants for financial clarity during divorces and highlights the necessity of having a thorough comprehension of one's financial status even during a marriage.

00:00 Introduction to Expat Divorce Finances
00:38 Sherryn's Journey to Hong Kong
01:40 Life as an Expat in Hong Kong
04:18 The Role of an Accountant in Divorce
06:03 Financial Planning for Divorce
08:13 Understanding Current and Future Financial Needs
11:44 Challenges and Emotional Aspects of Divorce
20:41 Legal and Financial Strategies
31:04 Collaborative Divorce Practices
32:53 Importance of Financial Literacy
35:50 Conclusion and Contact Information


Get in touch with Sherryn

email: sherryn@sherrynhancockcpa.com 

website: www.sherrynhancockcpa.com

Remember, the conversation doesn't end here. Join us on our social media platforms to share your thoughts and continue the dialogue:


Disclaimer:

While we strive to provide accurate and up-to-date information, the nature of expat experiences can evolve. We encourage listeners to verify details independently. For inquiries or guidance, reach out to us at podcast@trulyexpat.com. Your questions are essential, and we're here to help you navigate expat life effectively.

Thanks for tuning in to our latest episode. Subscribe for more valuable insights and information for expats in Singapore and beyond.

Episode 67: Expats Worldwide: Expert Tips for Managing Expat Divorce Finances with Sherryn Hancock

Paula: [00:00:00] On this episode of the Truly Expat Podcast, we're diving into the financial side of expat divorces with Sherryn Hancock, CPA and experienced accountant with over 30 years of experience, who specializes in helping individuals navigate the complexities of separation. Divorce is never easy, but when you add international financial settlements across borders and differing legal systems into the mix, things can get even more complicated. Welcome, Sherryn. Thank you 

Sherryn: for having me.

Sherryn: I'm really excited about being here today and joining you both on this. 

Rachel: It's lovely to have you. Yeah. Excellent. It's really good. Can you start by telling us how long you've been in Hong Kong and what first brought you there? 

Sherryn: I've been in Hong Kong for almost 30 years, over half my life now, which is surprising.

Sherryn: Um, came here in 1995 when my husband first got a job with Cathay Pacific as a pilot, and we decided to move here to grow his career, um, [00:01:00] with that. So, for me, you know, where I've never been outside of Australia, New Zealand and Fiji, I got on a plane with all my bags and stuff. Sat at the top of Gaitak in this and going on a brand new adventure, um, to there.

Sherryn: So, and I'm still here 30 years later. 

Paula: Wow. 30 years. Fantastic. 

Rachel: Goes fast, doesn't it? Yeah. It definitely goes fast. Yeah. 

Sherryn: But I've been able to keep my career and everything going as well. So that, that's been the beauty of being up here in Hong Kong. Oh yeah, that's brilliant. Working with, um, banking and financials and now with people, you know, in, in this process. 

Rachel: So what's your experience been like as an expat living in Hong Kong?

Sherryn: It has had a lot of ups and downs like, uh, most people have in their life, you know. I love that, , you've got great public transport, , trains come every two to three minutes and, , could always get a train anywhere most things. , you're able to get the [00:02:00] domestic help, which has made me being able to continue my career, which I'm really, really thankful.

Sherryn: So I've got three children, but I've been able to keep working and growing and, you know, moving my career as an accountant. On, um, whereas I may not have had that luxury back in Australia as well, and the low tax rates as well has been a real beauty. I like how you throw that in one line. 15 percent flat tax rate, um, can make it really, really happy though.

Sherryn: It's the accountant in me.

Sherryn: From that point of view. You know, but then there's been the cons as well, which is, not having any family around, okay, to call on. , one thing I've found here is your family become, your friends become your family. you call on your, uh, friends to help you out where you wouldn't normally call your mum or your dad or your sisters to help.

Sherryn: Um, for me having a pilot as a husband also, , I've had to make decisions that would normally be made jointly. [00:03:00] Um, because they've been working or traveling or in the air, I've had to make decisions like, uh, when my son had his appendix out and I had to take him to hospital and,, he had to have an operation and my husband was flying somewhere, I think, over Jeddah at that time.

Sherryn: So there was no way I could get hold of him, um, to tell him that this was what going on. So you've just got to make those decisions and be confident that you can do it as well. Um, and, , there are certain costs. It's not a high here too, which is like the rentals, you know, you get a lot, you're paying a lot more, uh, for a lot smaller place than what you would do in your home country.

Sherryn: So there's compromises, but you know, overall, you know, very positive, very positive, you know, to where living here and, I love it. So yes. 

Paula: Yeah. I mean, Hong Kong's a great place to live. 

Sherryn: Yes. Yes. You know, and there's lots for kids to do as well. So not so much young teenagers, but. Kids definitely, , you've got an abundance of things to do.

Paula: Yeah, definitely. [00:04:00] Because I've known Sherryn for quite some time, right? Yes, 

Sherryn: yes. Our kids played rugby together. 

Paula: Correct. And we played netball together. 

Sherryn: And we played netball together, but that, yes. 

Paula: Yeah, many moons ago. Now that our kids are adults. Yes. But I guess it's funny. I think people are probably going to listen to this and go, why do we have an accountant to come on and talk about?

Paula: Divorces. So, let's lead into that. Why are we talking to you about divorces? 

Sherryn: The reason you talk about , and it's something that I think, is the very first thing anyone does when, , we're going to be divorced, or I've got a divorce, or I'm getting divorced, is I've got to find myself a lawyer. Got to find,, which lawyers are good, which ones is that?

Sherryn: But if you look at the divorce process, there are basically two major aspects of divorce process, and that is putting your money, Or getting, and also kids, you know, if you've got kids, the arrangements with the kids. But I find no one [00:05:00] ever actually talks to their account, talks to an accountant who's a specialist in money matters.

Sherryn: Yeah. On financial, I suppose, they go to the lawyer expecting their lawyers to help, , it's not, um, You know, I go to a lawyer for a legal matter. I don't go to ask them, how should I be saving money? So, um, it, it, it amazes me. I started out this process, uh, helping friends, um, , through this process, you know, because.

Sherryn: It was, um, , they had no clue on their financial matters, so it started there and then when I've started delving into it more, you know, lawyers will ask, Okay, well, what do you want? What do you want? They won't help you determine what do you want? They'll tell you what you're entitled to on the things, but not necessarily listen to what you want, or help you understand what you need.

Sherryn: Yeah, I think a lot of it is what you need to do. Is a big gap in a lot of people when they go through divorce, they don't realize [00:06:00] the match between the two. 

Paula: So when do they come to you? Do they come to you just before they think they might get a divorce? Or do they, do they come? It's 

Sherryn: mixes. It's mixes. So some people do come to me before they do divorce.

Sherryn: Most of the time, a lot of them come to me when they've got to fill in what's called a form E or their financial position for their lawyers. And it's like a week beforehand and they go, I go, when is it due? And they go, uh, as soon as possible, because they've not wanted, they've not want to look at it.

Sherryn: They've not want to, you know, it can be very confronting with them. Um, and that's, that's what it's an 

Rachel: emotional rollercoaster, isn't it? You really, it's an emotional rollercoaster. Yeah. Yeah. 

Sherryn: Which is one of the reasons why I did a, I did a graduate diploma in psychology, uh, recently that I finished at the beginning of last year because it felt that it, you know, what I'm doing is almost like 50 [00:07:00] percent accounting work and 50 percent psychology or counseling type work because whenever you talk about money, There's always feelings that go with that.

Sherryn: And especially during divorce, they're, they're heightened, um, with that. So it just helps me through that. But, um, so as I said, it's mixed, it's sometimes afterwards, uh, you know, when they're going through the mediation process. Um, but you know, I sort of have a, my formula that I work through, which is a understanding where you are at the moment and then be, you know, what do you need going forward?

Sherryn: Okay. So, you know, so once you're divorced, where do you want to be? Where do you want to live? , um, if you're in your fifties, how much you need to retire on, um, , how much do you need to put away for that? Because many women. Especially don't seem to understand that.

Rachel: What do you do to specifically Get them through that. What, what, [00:08:00] what, how, what does the breakdown look like? So they have to, you said that they need something from the lawyer, which totally went straight over my head.

Rachel: I had no idea what that, what that was. Um, so how do 

Sherryn: you, okay. When my own process it's a I get them to understand what where they are currently and this can apply to anything. It can apply to divorce, it can apply to your own, you know, currently married life as well, but understanding where you are at the moment.

Sherryn: So we look at say the last 12 months of bank statements and we'll put them into a spreadsheet. And we'll see what you're spending, um, you know, from credit cards to that, if we can possibly do that over the last 12 months. And that gives us a good average of what your average spend will be. Um, and then what we then do is based on that, we can then look at it and say, okay, you're spending this amount at the moment.

Sherryn: What do you want to be in the, where do you want to be in the future? [00:09:00] You know, do you want to be in Hong Kong? Do you want to be back in Australia? Do you want to be in the UK? How much is rentals? And then we build up a scenario based on what your expenses would be in either Hong Kong or a different country.

Sherryn: Okay. Do you buy a house? Do you rent a house? Um, do you rent for six months and then buy something? A car? White goods? You know, it's, it's all basic, you know, um, That you don't always think about, um, eating out, petrol money, you know, things that you, um, kids activities, all of that sort of things. Um, and then what I do is the other aspect of that is, okay, so a lot of the people I've helped have been married for 20 or 30 years.

Sherryn: They have no idea of their financials. So I help them understand what it, what their financials are in and out, you know, money coming in, money going out, but also how much do you need to retire on? Okay. So if [00:10:00]you're, you're 55, you retire at 65, you've got 10 years. Now, a lot of these people have never worked either.

Sherryn: So they're not going to have the earning capacity. So we've got to look at, okay, if you want. Say 5, 000 Australian a month to retire on. What do you need to invest now? As a lump sum to be able to have that in 10 years time. Okay. And we go to a financial planner for that, um, to get that information. So it's sort of bringing that all together.

Sherryn: So when they come to it, they know how much money they need, how much money they need to live on, how much money lump sum if possible. And that is, to me, that's always classified, to me, as the minimum that they need. So, you know, we then determine two ranges. So we'll have a, you know, this is what we first go in with, this is our rock bottom, and we try to get somewhere in the middle, um, you know, because it's not always straightforward 50 50 [00:11:00] split, um, on that sort of thing.

Sherryn: So, but they can go in with a, they can go in confidently. You know, so every number they know what is behind those numbers, you know, so they can argue, you know, and say, well, you can't, you don't spend that much on food. Well, actually I do because this is what I've spent for the last 12 months on my food books, that sort of thing.

Sherryn: That's the, that's the aim behind it all. 

Paula: Because you don't, like I wouldn't have thought that I would even think about, okay, so what am I going to retire on? I'd be thinking about the here and the now, right? Like, what do I need now? What do I need to do? Especially if you've got, I guess, children and stuff.

Paula: Um, I never would have thought about that. Future in that respect. 

Rachel: Yeah, and it's, and it is something quite confronting, isn't it? Because when you think about it, you have been in a support role for maybe, maybe been in Hong Kong as long as you have, Cher, in like 30 years, and you have not really put towards your retirement fund.

Rachel: [00:12:00] Yeah. Right, or at least you have, you know. You don't because you've 

Sherryn: always considered it a joint retirement fund. So it is often the partner's retirement fund that you're relying on that will be supporting you through to your, you die basically. Um, whatever is then passed on with your kids. So when you go through divorce, that retirement fund just gets taken totally.

Sherryn: Not out of the equation, because it's still an asset, but you've got to set up your own, out of that, you've got to set up your own retirement and understand what you need for that. Yeah, it is scary for a lot of people, which is why I tend to do our very hand holding Which is quite, quite different. I try to hold their hand and help them through that gently, um, as well.

Sherryn: Because, you know, it is scary, it's confronting, they've been a supporting role, often they get told it's not my money, it's not, um, Yeah, it's not your money, it's not, um, [00:13:00] you know, you haven't earned it, um, and things like that, though they've been raising the family and, and things like that, which to me is an equal role that they have decided early on in the marriage, um, to do.

Sherryn: Um, so it's also scary for a lot of people because they've, you've got to tell them you've probably got to go back and work in 10 years and they've not worked in 20 years. That's scary. Trying to get back in the workforce when you're 50 or 55 can be really scary as well. Um, yeah. 

Rachel: Do you just look up to people?

Rachel: Sorry. Sorry. It can be quite exciting too, this fresh new life, right? I mean, it's daunting, but exciting as well. Like it, you know, like you get to start anew, you get to make your own decisions. You no longer have to worry about like, you know, anybody else, you're, you're, you know, you're on your own and you're going forth.

Rachel: It can be quite. [00:14:00]

Sherryn: It can be quite exciting, but often it, it can be whoever has initiated the divorce. So when they're initiated and not always, um, both agree on a divorce. So sometimes it can come to some people where it's totally out of the blue. And that's when it really becomes very hard for them. You know, it's like, I saw myself as going old and that, and then all of a sudden I've been handed.

Sherryn: Divorce papers or being told, I want to divorce you, um, and so, you know, that's why sometimes the rollercoaster of emotions happens. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. Unfortunately, it's not a nice subject to talk about. Yeah. But I think it's a necessary subject to talk about because Also, a lot of people who are in marriages at the moment don't understand their financial positions.

Sherryn: Um, you know, I jokingly say my husband is one of those. He, um, he leaves it all to me and, uh, he tells me he would be very screwed if I [00:15:00] actually, um, If he actually divorced me, um, and goes around to all the people, I give him an allowance every month. So, it's just all like, he's a senior pilot at a Cathay. So, it's like, 

Paula: yeah.

Paula: We're not all as lucky as your family and have an accountant in the house. No, no. So, for those who don't have an accountant in the house, should we be looking now? Like, even if we are Very happily married, have no intention of, um, should we be coming to the accountant now to get our 

Sherryn: Because it's not just divorce.

Sherryn: Yeah. 

Paula: It 

Sherryn: can also be, um, intent. As well. Okay. So if your partner dies, okay, you've all of a sudden got to take on that role as a single person and understand where all your financial matters are. So, and you should be understanding where money is going in a marriage as well just as much as you should be, you know, not just in a divorce [00:16:00] process.

Sherryn: So I think it is just as important to know about it now, which is why just over the last years. A couple of years I've started to become really passionate about financial literacy. And I think it, you know, even should be in schools, um, starting to teach kids how to budget, how to look after their money, how to just, you know, understand this is what's coming in.

Sherryn: You know, and it might be from parents, you know, why they're at uni and this is what's going out and understanding that as well, um, because I found it's not taught in schools. It's not, um, you know, and a lot of kids, including my own, have not a clue. 

Paula: Yeah, they say that, um, you know, your school subjects are more about what you're going to do with your career, whereas your financial subjects in your home is taught in the house.

Paula: So if you don't have a understanding of your, um, budgets and your financial situation, how are you going to pass that on to your children? [00:17:00]

Sherryn: And if you haven't had it passed on to you. Yes. Uh, you know, it could be, it can be taught in the house, but who, but it's, it's. Another thing that I find interesting is that when, you know, people run businesses and that they're very conscious about making sure their P& L and all of that are up to date, that they know exactly where revenue is coming in and expenses are going out, but none of them, not very few people actually put very of the same attention.

Sherryn: On their own personal, um, ins and outs. So true. And it's very simple. You know, to me it's, you know, it's what comes in and what goes out. Okay. So it does, accountants tend to like to make it complicated. I like to make it simple. 

Paula: I'm one of those spreadsheet girls. I love a spreadsheet and I'm, and I don't like numbers.

Paula: Don't get me wrong. I'm not a numbers girl, but I do like a spreadsheet because I do like to know what's going in and out. So that's what people should be looking at before [00:18:00] they even get down this path, right? Yes, 

Sherryn: correct. Correct. And having an understanding because, you know, I've had a couple of cases where I've helped them when a partner has died and they haven't had a clue and then they've had to relocate back to a country, their home country or whatever as well.

Sherryn: Um, just trying to help them through that process, um, as well. 

Paula: So how, I mean, How does that happen then? Because I guess if you're living in a foreign country, you've got two people from different countries or same country or whatever, you've got children involved, I mean, then it becomes very difficult, right?

Paula: Because there's a lot. 

Sherryn: Yeah, and it depends with your wills and that sort of thing. So it's also important to have your wills up to date and being in whichever country. that know that whether they're applicable in that country or you've got to have it where your assets, something to cover you wherever your assets are.

Sherryn: But, um, like in Hong Kong, I know probate can take up to about a year, um, to do. Um, so that means your assets in [00:19:00] theory could be tied up. However, one word of warning, never tell a bank that your spouse has died and, you know, Because they will never know until you actually tell them. 

Paula: Yeah, 

Sherryn: because 

Paula: the government freezes everything, right?

Paula: Yeah, it does here. I don't know if it do it in Hong Kong? Sorry, what's that? So in Hong, in here, it freezes as, freezes all our If 

Rachel: you 

Sherryn: find a guy, they freeze away. They don't find out unless you tell them. Okay. Okay, so if you never told the bank, or even didn't tell the bank for a month or two months, okay, then you can able to access, you know, some money to at least live.

Sherryn: Yeah. Okay, because as I said, probate can stay a long time, but you know, if your assets are frozen, uh, because you've told the bank, then, um, yeah, what do you live on? 

Paula: Yeah, exactly. Because it's different in Hong Kong because you can get, so in Hong Kong you, as a dependent, you can actually work. Where in places like Singapore you can't.

Sherryn: Yeah. 

Paula: [00:20:00] So I guess that's also an issue, right? If you're, I mean, do you, do you help people that are not in Hong Kong that are in other countries? 

Sherryn: The ones I've used are usually in Hong Kong, okay, but then they've gone back to say Australia or the UK or somewhere like that, you know, because that's where their kids are or things like that.

Sherryn: So they've gone back to be closer to family because they've been expats here in Hong Kong. So I think that's the way it tends to work a little bit on that one as well. But, uh, you know, again, it's always to make sure you've got enough money to live on. Okay, during that time where you may not have access to any other funds, um, with that.

Sherryn: And that's also with divorce too, is during the divorce process, there is no agreements or no requirement for one spouse to, say, pay the other during that separation. 

Paula: Oh, okay. I got you. 

Sherryn: So, you know, until the divorce is finalised, then your maintenance is not settled. [00:21:00] But before that, it's like, um, it can be, okay, well, I will give you 20, 000 Hong Kong a month instead of 50, 000 Hong Kong a month.

Sherryn: And you're reliant upon that, you know, um, that goodwill. 

Paula: Yeah. 

Sherryn: Which can be harder. 

Paula: Yeah. I never thought of that. If you're separated and then you, you've got no money to live on because you're not. 

Sherryn: If you can, always pop some money away in your own name. Or if you decide to divorce, you know, I, one of the things I sometimes say to people is take 50 percent out of the accounts, you know, just, you know, before you decide to announce your divorcing.

Sherryn: Not all of it, but the 50%. Yeah. 

Paula: That's a, that's a, that's good to 

Sherryn: know. Because 

Paula: you 

Sherryn: need something to live on. 

Paula: Yeah, yeah. That is good to know. I guess people don't think of that, and I guess a lot of times people think that their spouse should 

Sherryn: look after them. 

Paula: Yeah. Yeah. a nice guy. [00:22:00] Guy. 

Sherryn: He'll look after me, he'll look after me 'cause you know, promise 

Paula: me that he would look after me.

Paula: You know, it's, 

Sherryn: and sometimes it can be like that and be like that, but then sometimes people then just drag it on. And the other side, the other partner gets. Tired of that and just says, okay, alright, you three more payments and yeah, I'm done. Yeah. You know, because they just keep dragging it out, um, and things like that.

Sherryn: So it's unfortunate, but that's when it starts getting messy. Yeah.

Rachel: Do you think you can help people from other countries who are, who are expats um, hoping to repat to the UK, so say if they're from the Singapore or or something like that, would you be able to help other people?

Sherryn: The process to me is the same. I've helped people in Vietnam, Australia, um, the UK and that, um, so not necessarily just in Hong [00:23:00] Kong. To me, the process is the same because when you're going into divorce, you've got to know what your, what your current expenditure and money coming in is and what you, what you need going forward.

Sherryn: Okay, the processes within that. The legal processes can be different, but you always, to me from a financial side of it, is you always need those two fundamental understandings to be able to make an informed decision, um, on your financial future, um, during that divorce process. Um, because, and that's what I think is, is the most important part of it all, um, on that one.

Paula: Because I guess it also, I know you're not a lawyer, but I guess it also depends on what the laws are in each country, right? Because I know of a friend who got pushed back to the UK because the laws are better there and better for that, the person trying to, you know, handing the divorce papers. I think, I mean, 

Rachel: I was speaking to a friend the other day how, um, [00:24:00] Singapore mainly favours the males in divorces.

Rachel: I don't know if that makes 

Paula: sense. Then that's why, that's why she was getting pushed to go back to the UK. 

Sherryn: Yeah. The thing is in Hong Kong, and I think a lot of countries it's wherever you file first, so it's whoever files first. Okay. So like, for example, if you had, um, you know, uh, someone who, you know, was in Australia, like.

Sherryn: Two people in Hong Kong and one was an Australian one, or both were Australian, but they could file in the Hong Kong courts. But then if that one of them filed in the Australian courts first. That's the jurisdiction that it falls into and you can't then file in Hong Kong, so you can't go shopping around.

Sherryn: I always, I always, I always put this in you, you know, you can't shop around, you always ask your lawyer as well. Okay, I am an accountant, but you know, [00:25:00] from experience is you, you know, it's basically you, it's whoever files first, um, in what jurisdiction it then goes into. Okay. 

Rachel: Oh, okay. So if you are living in Singapore and you wanted to get divorced, then perhaps sometimes it's easier to get divorced if you're from Australia or something like that.

Rachel: Like, 

Sherryn: well, the one that I know of was, uh, one person had been, had gone back to Australia. And one person was in Hong Kong, the one partner was in Hong Kong, um, Australia is not necessarily the, uh, Hong Kong does it based on your standard of living or your quality of living, um, takes that very much into consideration, especially the children.

Sherryn: Um, so that can of course affect the decisions. So, if she decided to file in Hong Kong, even though she had moved back to Australia because that area was actually more beneficial [00:26:00] because it was based on the standard quality of, um, whereas Australia is, doesn't take that as much into consideration. Smart person.

Sherryn: Hmm. Yeah. So it's always good to have a look around, but as I said, you've got to be first. Yeah. Yeah. I guess if you're And it's the first into court. It's not the first into, you know, I'm going to divorce and mediation and that. It's the first enlargement into the judicial system. 

Paula: Okay. That makes sense.

Paula: That definitely makes sense. 

Rachel: Hmm. And what are the common mistakes that, um, people make when they're navigating divorce from a financial perspective? 

Sherryn: My number one is listening to their exes.

Sherryn: I know it sounds funny but the amount of people say well he says I you know this is what I can get or this is what I deserve or this is what I'm entitled to and [00:27:00] believe it and it's just sort of like why are you believing them when They've initiated a divorce, you know, or, you know, this is all my money that I have in front of, you know, this is all my assets and not do the due diligence in behind it or occasionally some forensic accounting behind it to see if there is money hidden away or money being moved out, um, of the accounts and things like that.

Sherryn: But, um, yeah, that would be my number one mistake, on that one, and not being prepared. Not understand, to me, not understanding your financial position because You know, you can easily be bamboozled, okay, when, especially during mediation, when it's just often a mediator and you and your, um, your ex in those, in those areas.

Sherryn: And they're trying to come up with, so you're negotiating. So your lawyers are often not involved or they're involved afterwards, you know, to look at the [00:28:00] things. But during that process, you're actually, Going back and forth, making a negotiation deal. And you know, some of these, some of these people are very well versed at making deals.

Sherryn: They're sales people, they're things like that. They know how to make deals and you're dealing with a person that's never had to do that before. So it's just giving them that confidence to be able to do that. 

Rachel: And do you, uh, are you able to do forensic account, accounting for them? 

Sherryn: Yes, yeah, so I've gone through, I've gone through two.

Sherryn: Yeah, well, you know, it's it's a lot harder, you know, to get sort of things from fine fine things, you know, but I've where they've given me bank statements and they've sort of said, look, just go through them. Tell me what the situation is. Tell me if you can identify any. And we can then see whether there's been money transferred out and you can actually, through the process, you can actually ask them, you know, if it's above a certain [00:29:00] amount, where has that money gone?

Sherryn: Um, what was it for? And in Hong Kong, you can go back 12 months worth of bank statements. And sometimes they'll say two years, um, as well. So, you know, sometimes there's nothing there. Sometimes there is, um, is things there. So, it's just a matter of, but, you know, always with this you've got to weigh up the cost of it versus what extra would it give you in a deal.

Sherryn: Okay? And that is the biggest mistake. That's one of also the biggest mistakes that they, that people tend to do. It's like, for example. I can get an extra half a million out of so and so, but you might end up spending half a million in legal fees to do that on an hourly rate because I think Singapore is probably the same as Hong Kong, it's quite expensive legally on an hourly rate.

Sherryn: So, you know. You could, you could spend the next six months going over for that half a million, [00:30:00] but how much is it going to cost you in legal fees to do it? And is it worth it? Um, you know, to do that? You know, 

Paula: you don't think of stuff like that. You just think, especially when you're in that headspace, right?

Paula: Like the heat. That's why you have me. Yeah, exactly. That's why you come to Sherryn. She can sort it all out for you. 

Sherryn: Yeah. 

Paula: Sherryn Holmes. The 

Sherryn: thing I always try to make people do is looking, is look positively forward. Okay, so try to get them in a positive mind frame to look forward and move forward and have something to look forward to.

Sherryn: Whether it's a place, a house, or, you know, New Horizons, or being back with the kids, or You know, try to get them to look positively. You know, the decision's been made, you can't change that. So, but you can change how you're looking at it going forward. 

Paula: Do you ever find that you've got two people from two different countries, you find that harder to navigate or not really?

Paula: Okay. 

Sherryn: Yeah, 

Paula: [00:31:00] I don't have that problem, but I just, not that I intend on , 

Sherryn: I, well at the moment I usually deal with one, but there is a system, um, that is, they're starting to try and grow here as a collaborative practice where you actually work collaborative with the law, with two lawyers, a financial independent.

Sherryn: And a mental health independent to come up with an agreement to actually, um, you know, that is then, they then, uh, binding. So it's actually lawyers working together instead of working against each other. But the two parties agree to adhere to whatever decision those four. Parties come together and flesh out on that, which is meant to be the best for the family.

Sherryn: So quite big in the UK and I think Australia is growing, but they're just starting it out here, trying to grow it here in Hong Kong. So I've just, uh, in the last year I became a financial independent with that. Haven't done a case yet, but yeah. 

Rachel: [00:32:00] Well, that's good. Yeah, no, it has to It's very, very I mean, it's, it's always messy, no matter how civilized you are, right?

Rachel: It can be really. 

Paula: Because someone's hurt. At the end of the day, someone is hurt. One person, even if you're not in a relationship and haven't been in a proper relationship for a long time, someone always gets hurt and gets nasty and messy. Especially the kids. Yeah. Yeah. Very sad. Can be used as pawns and stuff.

Sherryn: Yeah. And that's why the collaborative practices help, because the idea is it's meant to become, you know, the best solution for everyone, including the kids, okay, during that. And you know, they're trained in that. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. It should be done like that. 

Paula: Do you have anything else that you think you, you, and you know, people should know?

Sherryn: Um, I think, I think I've sort of covered everything from the process and that, but it's, uh, [00:33:00] the thing I'd probably do is stress that financial literacy, no matter where you are, is, is really important. Um, and I think it goes very, it, um, doesn't get the attention it actually needs because. And, uh, you know, whether you're going into a relationship and knowing where you both stand, but also understanding what your other partner is earning, um, and that, um, even if you don't keep joint funds, but just knowing some of these things or what bills are being paid and, and that sort of thing, because, you know, I also hear things of like with marriages where you have two separate pools and they put You know, they've decided to say, you know, equally put an amount into the middle pool, but if you actually look behind it, one, one partner is earning maybe twice as much as the other one, but they're both equally putting into a pool with kids, [00:34:00] um, that type of thing.

Sherryn: So it's. It's understanding and working and, you know, working as well, working as a whole. Yeah. 

Paula: Yeah. Thank you, Sherryn. It's been very interesting. Like I wouldn't like as much as I really want you to come on. It's not a subject that's, you know, that is an interesting, exciting subject to talk about. But it is one, unfortunately.

Paula: I think it's very 

Rachel: interesting. It is. I mean, it's also we've done a couple of episodes on how. Expats, especially a trailing expat, um, should really know what's going on in the family home in case something happens. I mean, for sure your, your relationship could be rock solid, but one of you could pass away and that unknown can be really daunting.

Rachel: Yeah. It's the last 

Sherryn: thing. But, you know, and that's, that's where, because, you know, [00:35:00] often a travelling spouse has given up so much, um, as well, um, on that one, but it's, it's important, that's, that's all I can stress, is it's important because, you know, you can be, you know, here and, you know, trying to cover and not being able to work.

Sherryn: Yeah, you can in the, in Singapore, but if you went through a divorce in Singapore and you couldn't work and your ex decided not to pay you any money, um, to support yourself, um, where are you at? Um, and it's knowing those contingencies and what's, you know, available to you as well. Yeah, 

Rachel: for sure. Especially since you've missed all of that, um, you know, uh, pension fund and things like that, you've given up all of that to, to follow your spouse and yeah.

Paula: Um, so if anyone wants to get in touch with you, we'll put something down on the show notes. Yeah. Um, [00:36:00] to ask you to reach out. Yeah. Thank you. Thank 

Rachel: you very much. I've loved having you on. Thank you. 

Sherryn: I've loved, I've loved being on and seeing your smiling faces too. Thank 

Paula: you. See you later. Bye. 

Sherryn: Bye.