Grit, Grapes, & 25 Vintages: Emily Hodson on Making Great Wine

 If you’ve ever wondered what really goes into making a world-class bottle of wine—or even imagined sipping wine in Virginia with the woman who made it—this episode is for you.

Emily Hodson is the powerhouse winemaker behind Veritas, Merrie Mill, and Flying Fox Vineyards. But before she was blending Bordeaux-style reds, she was studying infectious diseases. (Yep. You read that right.)

In this conversation, Emily shares:

• Her unexpected path from epidemiology to enology
• Why winemaking is equal parts farming, food production, and finesse
• The truth about terroir, grape stress, and hot vintage years
• Why Virginia’s Cabernet Franc has winemakers swooning
• How to develop your “wine personality” (yes, you have one)

Key Moments:
 - Emily’s pivot from science to wine
 - What really goes into a great vintage
 - The joy of cellar work (and the logistics behind it)
 - Emily’s thoughts on Cab Franc, Petit Manseng, and Virginia’s future
 - How wine reflects place, people, and personality

This episode is rich, real, and refreshingly honest—just like a great bottle of wine.

For more information about Emily and her wines:

veritaswines.com

https://www.flyingfoxvineyard.com/ 

https://www.merriemillfarm.com/ 

Join my Insiders crew for weekly updates, tips, inspiration, and fun: https://www.pennyforyourshots.com/insider

Looking for my courses or options to work together? https://www.pennyforyourshots.com/about

Wanna sip with us? Join my Sipper Club here: https://pennyforyourshots.com/sip

Learn More, get on the list, or Register for Wine Camp 2025: https://pennyforyourshots.com/winecamp2025

To connect with Penny, get notified, or learn more, check out www.pennyforyourshots.com

- Follow Penny on Instagram: @penny4yourshots
- Or Facebook: Penny (Kuhlers) Fitzgerald

Transcript

Grit, Grapes, & 25 Vintages: Emily Hodson on Making Great Wine 

Today's guest is Emily Hodson, the powerhouse head winemaker at Veritas, one of Virginia's top wineries, and she's about to celebrate her 25th vintage. Emily's journey from infectious disease researcher to award-winning winemaker is packed with heart science and a whole lot of grape wisdom. She's also behind the wines at Merrie Mill.

That's one of the wine camp stops this year. and I cannot wait to sip her creations next month. if you've ever wondered what [00:01:00] really goes into making great wine or just love hearing from women doing big things in their field, you're going to adore this conversation.

Emily is smart, humble, hilarious, and seriously inspiring. Let's pour a glass and dive in. Here is Emily Hodson.

Penny Fitzgerald: Hi, Emily. 

Audio Only - All Participants: Hello. How are you? 

Penny Fitzgerald: I'm good. How are you? Super. Thank you. 

So great to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. So let me get a, give a little background for my listeners.

Uh, we are coming to Virginia Wine Country for wine camp this summer. So excited to see you and, um, taste your wines. Yay. And you are at Veritas and Merrie Mill Are you, do you make wine for other wineries as well? Sure, 

Emily Hodson: yeah. So, um, my first vintage was 2001 and that was for Veritas. So I've been making wine for Veritas for, this will be my 25th vintage.

Fantastic. Yeah, it's really exciting [00:02:00] sound by really quickly. Um, uh, then my brother and my sister and I own also own Flying Fox Vineyard and Winery. Um, so that's a small little boutique, so I make that here as well. And then I'm also the consultant winemaker for Merrie Mill Wonderful Keswick. So yeah, I have, it's really fun, um, because even though Keswick really isn't that far as the crow flies, the growing conditions and the way the grapes express themselves are completely different.

So it just gives me a more breadth of experience as far as, you know. Um, the rainfall over there and just kind of thinking outside of the box and learning a new vineyard is, is, um, humbling. 'cause you think, you know, I've got this, I can make ke my eyes closed and then you go, when you go over to Keswick and you have to re rethink a few things.

So that's, it's been really nice part of my sort of wine making story. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. 

Emily Hodson: And 

Penny Fitzgerald: when you say Keswick, you're talking [00:03:00] about the region or the area there in general, right? Yep. Keswick is that area. 

Emily Hodson: There's a, there's a few wineries out in Keswick, so, um, yeah. Growing, so, yeah. But it, Keswick is as a region is not that far from Afton or, or Crozet, which is my kind of closest town here.

Um, but the Grapes Express very differently. 

Penny Fitzgerald: I imagine. Well, okay. So a lot of my listeners are wine lovers and have come up in the wine industry. Most of us coming to wine camp have pretty good wine knowledge. Mm-hmm. Um, some more than others and all of us love it. So, yeah.

What's not the love. Exactly. But, um, I don't wanna, um, skip over your background either though, 'cause it's such a great story of how you came to become a winemaker. 

Emily Hodson: Sure. Yeah. Um, it's funny, I was just telling this story yesterday. Um. Wine making found me. I didn't find, um, my, um, first [00:04:00] career was in infectious diseases, so I have a, uh, master's in epidemiology and, um, I, I hit a point in my life, like a lot of us where I just was like, this isn't quite working out for me.

Um, so I knew I was, I needed to kind of look around in the job space and see, you know, what other aspects of, of, um, infectious diseases I could work in and. I called my parents. I grew up in Florida, and um, they said, sure, you can, you can come home, have home base for a few months while you find your next job, but.

Dot, dot, dot. We just bought this farm in Virginia. We're moving to Virginia and we're gonna plant grapes and open a winery. And I thought to myself, woo, my parents have lost it. Um, so I, I still came here. I moved, um, to Afton in 1999 and um, I kind of was just, I helped my parents like, 'cause they were back and forth from Florida.

Um, so if the, if. Chris Hill was [00:05:00] coming, our vineyard consultant. I would meet with him, take notes and just help facilitate their, their. Vision of starting this winery, and I absolutely fell in love with it. Wow. I fell in, oh 

Audio Only - All Participants: wow. 

Emily Hodson: The people I fell in love with, irrigation and agriculture and just never was sort of a path that I saw as an option.

And so as I just kept working on this project with my parents, I just realized. That I adored it. And, um, there's a lot of infectious diseases in wine making. Not really, but there's good yeast and there's bad yeasts. You know, you can have good populations of mites and fungus out in the vineyard that can, you can have beneficials that are good, but if it swings the wrong way, you have to really, um, you know, look at.

At your systems and evaluate what's working and what's not working. So there's a lot of that too. And then just agriculture and farming. I didn't realize how much I was gonna enjoy that. And then on top of that, the creative aspect of [00:06:00] making wine and fermenting things and um, you know, having every vintage just be slightly different, all wrapped up into something that, um, I am just so thankful I get to call my 

Penny Fitzgerald: job.

That's fantastic. Mm. Well, I think most of us who have, um, who are outside of the industry, or most people who are coming to it new think it's such a romantic notion. You know, the idea of owning a vineyard or the idea of making wine. It's just so arty, artful, um, artful, artsy mixed up. But it, it just seems like it would be this creative process, but there's so much science behind it.

Emily Hodson: There really is. There really is so much science behind it. Um, so much grit behind it. Just like being out in like out in the field. Bug bites, like the non-glamorous 

Penny Fitzgerald: side. 

Emily Hodson: It's a really, it's a strange job actually. Just the, um, the amount of time you spend in the field and then [00:07:00] also in the cellar with barrels and, you know, hoses and.

Um, you know, I'm basically in food production. Um, so that's the non-glamorous side of it. Um, but in the end, that's my favorite part is the cellar work, the fermentation. Um, the, the processing of wine fermenting grapes to wine is like the coolest job ever. Mm-hmm. Um. Packaging and, you know, filtering and going to bottle.

Maybe not my favorite part of the job, but definitely necessary. Like, I can't just ferment things. I also have to order labels and capsules and corks and make it all fit. Wow. You know, hit a production schedule and mm-hmm. Um, a lot of. I think the other side of it is there's also a lot of logistics. So it's not just, you know, oh, my Chardonnay's ready, I'll pick my Chardonnay.

Um, I have to make sure I have tank space for that chardonnay coming in, and the next day is grapes coming in. And so there's like this long term planning of um, how much fruit is out there, how does it fit in tank, and then [00:08:00] where is it going as far as like our lineup of wines, right? So, mm-hmm. Um, if, if, you know.

If I'm not making a a chardonnay, I have to find somewhere for that chardonnay to be in a wine somewhere in the cellar, whether that's sparkling or a dessert wine. So there's a lot. There's a lot. It's a lot of it. Yeah. Um, but it's fun. It's super fun. 

Penny Fitzgerald: It sounds like it'd be a new thing every day. Mm-hmm. 

Emily Hodson: It is.

That's the beauty of this job. It's very seasonal. It's cyclical. Um, and you know, you never really know what you're gonna do on any given day and it changes a lot. And so that's nice. It's really, yeah. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Well, gosh, I mean, hearing you speak about all the different parts of it, so you're a scientist one day, you're a farmer, you are a vineyard own owner, manager.

You have to have the business knowledge, the project management, the logistics, the gosh, even the buying, the purchasing of the, the bottles, the [00:09:00] labels, and going through all of the legal hoops that you have to go through to get the labeling completed and all of that. 

Emily Hodson: Correct. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Do you have a team that helps you with all that stuff or are 

Emily Hodson: I have a fabulous team.

Um, I do, I have, um, my, I work with my brother-in-law, Elliot Watkins, and he's basically running all of our sparkling programs. So he's taken like a big, giant piece of it. Um, and that's. Worked out so great for both of us. Um, and then I have a lab tech that does all of my lab work. We do that all in house, so the, the more science part of it.

Um, and then I have Chris and Kelsey, um, who do basically all of the production work for me. And for example, like yesterday I was ordering, um, capsules and I would go to Kelsey. Kelsey, how many gold capsules do we have left? And she would go and check and do inventory on what was left. And then that allows me to put together the order for what we need for June and [00:10:00] July.

And so, yeah, I have a really wonderful team. And then, um, I also have Coy who is, I like to call him my vineyard liaison, but he's kind of more out in the field than I, than I am on the daily. So he's my. Boots on the ground out in the vineyard, and he'll come to me if, if there's a problem or if there's a good thing or just something new.

Um, we have a, an invasive pest this year that's just gotten to Virginia. It's kind of traveling from the north south, and so he'll. You know, give me updates on Spotted Lantern Fly and you know, what it looks like out in the vineyard. So yeah, it's, there's a bunch of us not to mention tasting room staff that are running, you know, point of sale and all of the upper management, which keeps all the, all the wheels turning.

Um, and our wine manager and our marketing manager and oh my gosh, um, we like to call, we're like, we call ourselves the Veritas family because we all kind of try and sit down and eat lunch together as much as we can. Mm-hmm. Um, just [00:11:00] share sort of what's going on throughout the property and, um, so it's, it's, it's really great and, um, like I said, I think we have just such a great team in all aspects of 

Penny Fitzgerald: Veritas, so you'd have to, I mean, there are so many different components and moving parts and.

Gosh. Yeah, the hospitality piece of it too is something I didn't even think about before, but absolutely in the tasting room and you know, making guests feel welcome and want to order your wines and. Take it 

Emily Hodson: home and mm-hmm. Have a fabulous experience while they're here. You know, in Virginia we're so lucky to have just such a great agritourism industry where we do have these tasting rooms and the, the space for people to come out and, um, be with their family and sit and throw Frisbees and enjoy wine grown here.

And I think there's a certain magic to it that, um, people can feel, but it's hard to put into words. Um. When you're just sitting having Rose [00:12:00] that was grown here somehow, I feel like you can tell tastes better. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. I, I mean, it, it just makes sense that it would, if it's an estate grown mm-hmm. Yeah. Not only the tar war, but just the, the locality of it, the romance of it, the, it's a vines.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, wow. Yeah. I cannot wait to come see you guys. 

Emily Hodson: Yeah, it's such a good, it's such a good camp too. You're gonna love it. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Nice. Okay. So, um, Virginia has really become known for Bee Cabernet Franc. Um, petite Verdo is another, um, really well made, well done grape in Virginia as well.

Right. Are there others that I'm missing that are, that we shouldn't miss while we're there? 

Emily Hodson: Yeah. Um. Uh, Petit Mansen is, [00:13:00] it's, I have a love hate relationship with. Um, we're growing it beautifully here. I haven't quite found my happy place. It has such high sugar and such high acid that I'm still fiddling with stylistically where I want to be with the wine.

So some years I'm making it off dry, so just a touch. Sweet. Some years I'm trying to make it totally dry, and so I'm still, mm-hmm. Evolving my, um, my own personal style and with the grapes that I grow, um, with that wine. But what I love about Petit Man saying is just its natural acidity. Um, we're so, mm-hmm.

Humid and warm. Um, that, that is one of the things that we struggle a little more with is, is bright acidity. Mm-hmm. Um, so anytime you have a great, that brings that naturally, I'm gonna keep working on it till I get it right. Um, and you said cap Frank. Right. Yeah. Like cap bronc, I love in so many different ways.

Um, vier, I, I grow and produce a lot of Vivienne, some of my peers, [00:14:00] um, they have their love hate with Vinet. I, I, I just adore how Vivienne is expressing on my farm. Just fresh Fruit Bowl really has its own fingerprint, and so I've really enjoyed working with the y. I think a lot of people are playing with Tanat, you know?

Oh, similar to Petit Burdo. Just a big, yeah. Red. Um, and one grape that I have seen recently that if, if I was planting, I would plant, I, I see Virginia just recently doing Albarino, so great. 

Audio Only - All Participants: Mm-hmm. 

Emily Hodson: Every time I've had an Albanino in Virginia so far, I'm like. That is awesome. I would plant that grape here, so that, I think that's gonna be a up and comer.

Um, and as soon as spotted lantern fly moves out, I, I will probably myself plant some Albarino, which makes no sense because I already have Soan Blanc, so I already have a white grape [00:15:00] kind of already in that space, Uhhuh. But, um. I just, I think, um, we're making some beautiful albarino and so I want, I want to get the opportunity to, to do that myself too.

Audio Only - All Participants: Yeah. 

Emily Hodson: Such a nice summer sipper. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So expressive too. And, um, I think, you know, from what I'm reading in the media and everything as well as that, you know, not to talk about the cons in the wine industry or the, the hardships in the wine industry, but the whites seem to be doing better than the reds.

Just as far as, you know, if there is a dip, the whites are seeing less of a dip. I'm not sure economists can exactly explain it, but, um, that also encourages me to look at alternate white varieties. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, sure. So, yeah, that makes sense. Well, and I don't know, I personally, I feel like any dip is temporary, you know?

Sure. I, people are gonna come back to wine 'cause it's just, I mean, it's been around for. [00:16:00] How many thousands of years. 

Emily Hodson: Exactly. And 

Penny Fitzgerald: we're 

Emily Hodson: not, 

Penny Fitzgerald: we're not 

Emily Hodson: going anywhere. No. We love what we do. We've invested in all these vines. It's not a commodity. It's, it's a crop lifestyle. So, um, yeah. In the grocery 

Penny Fitzgerald: line item for most of us.

Emily Hodson: Yes, exactly. You know, there, I was just listening to a podcast this morning. I can't remember the name of it right now, but something in my cart where, where they real, really were talking about, you know, wine and wine's place in a shopping cart and how it's consistently kind of on the list in the shopping cart.

It was a really interesting podcast, but I agree with you. Yeah, 

Penny Fitzgerald: absolutely. Yeah. Well, um, getting back to varietals, Cabernet Franc Cab Franc, that's one of my very favorites. 

Audio Only - All Participants: Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: I absolutely love it. It's elegant and. It just is so food friendly and very, I mean, you can have it, you know. One of my favorite pairings is a second glass.[00:17:00] 

Emily Hodson: That's so good. That's, I haven't heard that before. I love that. I'm gonna use that. Yes, please. A second glass. No, I feel the same way. And it's really interesting you, you can't get very many winemakers to agree on very many things, but we do all agree. On Cab Frank, in Virginia, we're all really enjoying making that wine, you know, as a, as an elegant structured wine.

We're enjoying using it in Rose. I mean, enjoying using it in sparkling. It's just so robust and it's so, you know. So un unique to Virginia and so happy. The grape is just so happy in Virginia. We're not fighting, you know, like yeah. Producing well and it's, it's not high maintenance and just making solid, high quality wines and so many people, um, love kept Frank and now that they know about it, and, uh, yeah, so I'm happy about that [00:18:00] 

Penny Fitzgerald: because I, me 

Audio Only - All Participants: too.

Penny Fitzgerald: Yes, I know The more, the more is, more is better when it comes to cap bronc. 

Audio Only - All Participants: Nice. 

Emily Hodson: Um, we actually, I had one wine dinner a couple weeks ago where one of my courses was just cap bronc. It wasn't paired kind of along your, really, your thought processes. Um, I had a 2017. Oh no, I think it was 2007. Anyways, doesn't matter.

I had an older vintage Cabernet Franc that I just poured as one of the courses just so we could sit and talk about it. And, um, and it was a hundred percent Franc. And, um, that was the first time I'd actually done that in, in 25 years of wine dinners. It's just like, this course is this wine, let's talk about it.

Yeah, because it was worth, it was worth it. It was worth taking the time to just, you know. Have the wine be the, what we talk about. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Nice. Well, and with varietals too, if, [00:19:00] if listeners are out there trying to figure out, okay, what does this taste like? What is it? How do you compare it? I was a wine judge for many years and, um, still judge the Iowa State.

Commercial wine competition. But there are other competitions that I judged. I had some Virginia wines in the Jefferson Cup, um, invitational. Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. Years ago. Um, but one of the best ways to learn about a varietal, I feel, is to have a flight of them all the same grape, a hundred percent, you know, maybe seven different cab francs.

And you'll really get to understand, okay, this is what that's supposed to taste like. 

Emily Hodson: It's so interesting that you say that. I think it's the only way you can learn, um, not only what you like and dislike, but the different expressions of a grape mm-hmm. Is to have a number of them side by side. Because if you have one at a time, at a time, you don't have reference points.

Right. So you like, oh wow, this one's so floral because you've got nothing next to it that's more oaky. [00:20:00] Um, I really feel like that's the, the, the only way to learn the nuances of a, of a grape and also of your own. Specific wine preferences is to have. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Right. 

Emily Hodson: Uh, and I think, you know, we see this a lot in tasting rooms, or I see it a lot at wine dinners.

People, I, I always feel like people are so hesitant, um, or, or feel like they don't understand wine. And, um, I've always wanted to, and I've always tried to convey like, um. It's what you like. It doesn't matter what you're 

Audio Only - All Participants: Yeah. 

Emily Hodson: To like, and I think, um, I, I've thought about for a, a while, kind of putting together a wine education, not learning wine, but learning what.

You what you like. Do you like seeing like dry? What do those words mean? Do you like oak? Do you not like oak? Do you like oak and whites and not in reds? Like just giving people the tools to have all those wine side by side and say like, oh, you know, I really like high [00:21:00] acid whites. Or I like, you know, soft reds, soft fruity reds.

And what is that? Is that albe? Is that, you know, what, what are those? Grapes and just helping people. Um, figure out their wine personality, and I think you've seen that a little bit online with some of these wine clubs where they're doing cards a little bit more to help people understand what they like and don't like.

But it's so important and it's not, it's not focused on enough, I don't think. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, that's like a great way to look at it, because it can be intimidating, right? Mm-hmm. You know, you walk into a wine shop or in a winery or a grocery store and you see all the bottles on the wall, you don't know where to start.

I don't even, you know, yeah. 

Emily Hodson: Even as 25 years in the industry, sometimes I'll walk into the wine warehouse and I'll be like, I need a Syrah. And I'll let them guide me and take me through. I'm not even gonna, you know, I'm perfectly willing to accept somebody who knows that library of wines [00:22:00] in the store. Um, and they love to, 

Audio Only - All Participants: they love, oh yeah.

Emily Hodson: Yep. And, um, but it's really interesting 'cause I think for so long there was kind of a, a wine, not snobbery, I don't mean it that way, but like, um, you had to kind of know and understand things and everybody was a little intimidated because Uhhuh, I mean, some of these labels are hard to figure out. Um, yeah.

So how are you supposed to know if you like er, um, when all it says is conjure you, you know? Um, so it's like mm-hmm. All that aside, um, I think it's so important to have wine side by side, but I guess it's easy for me to say that because that was my job. It's hard, it's hard to be in a situation where you are able to have five wine side by side, you know, all cab either from the same region or different regions, like Exactly.

It's hard to open all the, it's expensive. It's, it's, [00:23:00] it's, yeah. 

Penny Fitzgerald: That's when it's nice to really, you know, get out there and visit the wineries. Mm-hmm. You know, and taste them side by side, the ones that you have in your portfolio. Try those side by side. And then, you know, you get to, you start getting a feel for a sense for what you really like and what you don't.

And it's helpful. Yeah. I mean, that's what it's all about. Yeah. Well, yeah. And some of the intimidation can even be like, well, how do I pronounce Vonnie? I don't even know. You know, that. And then the label itself, all of it is 

Emily Hodson: so, so much I. It is a lot. And you know, I'm in the uh, uh, kind of a business sphere right now where I'm looking at, um.

With a, a, a board really trying to develop some grape varieties for Virginia. Um, and that have a level of resistance to the fungus and molds that are just natural here. Mm-hmm. Um, grape breeding project. And, um, in the process of doing that, I've. [00:24:00] Been introduced to a lot of different hybrids that I didn't know about or I didn't know existed.

And, you know, I'm obviously looking to, to make a new grape. I cannot tell you how hard it has been for me to remember the names of all these hybrids. I know. And it's, it's humbling because, and it also makes me really. Understand the consumer so much more is like when, when something's new like Merlot Canthus or Sorelis and there, there's all these other grape varieties that I don't know very well that I didn't grow up with.

I can't remember their names and I can't remember how to say them. So it really makes me understand how hard that must be from the other side, where it's not your daily job, it's just something that you're in and out of. Like I do this on the. Daily and I had a hard time. I still am having a hard time sort of cataloging and remembering some of these new, these grapes that are new to me.

Um, so props to all my [00:25:00] Virginia wine bands that have embraced vinet and can say it kind of well. I'm so proud of. Because we definitely went from the late nineties with having to explain Vinet to everybody that walked in the door to now people come in and say, do you have a vinet? And I'm like, yes, I do.

Let me just pour you some. So, yeah, no, I think that I've really watched a, a, a consumer base, a group of people I'd say in the Mid-Atlantic, um, learn some new grapes over the last 20 years. And so I'm excited. Yeah. Excited to do it again. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. That's very exciting. You know, and the, the consumer is getting, I think, more educated and they, their pa our pallets are getting more sophisticated as we try more wine.

Emily Hodson: And the, you know, go Local movements have been really foundational in people seeking out new and sustainable and regenerative and, you know, new [00:26:00] practices and farming practices and all of that kind of woven together has really allowed us as a region to say, Hey, have you tried Petite Manseng? Okay. Probably never heard of it, but it's really good and it grows great here, so give it a try and people are absolutely willing to, and then nice, they kind of wrap their arms around it and it becomes like their new favorite wine.

And I don't know, it's been fun to watch the industry shift a little bit 

Audio Only - All Participants: and yeah, 

Emily Hodson: it's not the first time I'm gonna see that in my lifetime. 

Audio Only - All Participants: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Well, it's nice to have something unique. Yes, A tea men thing, you know, um, to, to have, you know, as a consumer, if you're. To get a wine like that. Mm-hmm.

And have it be your house wine. Yes. 

Emily Hodson: No, I know. Not, not Chardonnay. I make some really good Chardonnay too. But it is nice to have sort of, to understand a region. Right. Yeah. That's very. Stick to like what's in your backyard and what, what [00:27:00] your, you know, neighbors are planting throughout the, the Commonwealth.

And so that, that does become, it, become, it feels more honest or more valuable than mm-hmm. Chardonnay, but chardonnay is really good.

Penny Fitzgerald: Yes. Um, I have, um, some really good friends who that's their favorite is Chardonnay. So, but is the style a little bit different? What, what style do you typically follow for your, your ards? So, 

Emily Hodson: the interesting thing with Chardonnay, it makes, some of the best wines I've ever made have been a chardonnay base.

Wow. Um, it, you know, it, it, it. How do I put this in a short segment? Some of the best wines I've made are chardonnay, classic, beautiful, layered, um, elegant, um, when I'm working with Petit Mansen. Petit Manseng, for example, is, is a little more obtuse. Um, so as I [00:28:00] said before, um, you know, higher acid, um, higher aromatics, it's a, um.

It's, you know, roasted pineapple and papaya, really rich and layered. Mm-hmm. Um, and, um, more angular, um, where chardonnay, you know, they're just. In wine style, they're just completely different wine styles, which is fabulous because they're not emulating each other. So they're the, we need both, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

Mm-hmm. Because there is a place, uh, you know, for me with Chardonnay, you know, when I have a good chardonnay here, I want it in some beautiful oak, and I want it on Lee's and I wanna build structure. Um. And, um, that's just so classic and it just feels so good. Um, petite Manang, if I wanted to do something similar, I don't think I could make anywhere near that wine with a petite manang.

I've gotta, I've gotta have my, um. [00:29:00] My artistic direction has to be different. 'cause that wine, the Petite Manseng grape, doesn't fit in that program of mm-hmm. LL it can, and you know, for example, Michael Schapp is doing a, a very beautiful, dry, Petite Manseng that that doesn't have all the angles, all the obtuseness.

Um, but that, I feel like that's his sight. I feel like that's where those grapes are grown. Oh. Oh, okay. I did that. I feel like my grapes are placed in a much hotter, much drier, um, vineyard. And so they're, um, more aromatic and they're, um, uh, they're just expressing, expressing so much. So I have to just go a different direction.

It's all about knowing your grapes. Yeah. They have a lot to say. Sound like psycho, 

Penny Fitzgerald: but it's true. That's a good thing. You gotta have a little crazy in there to keep it 

Emily Hodson: [00:30:00] interesting. It's true. I know. You know, you, you, you have to have conversations with your grapes and, um, they can't always do what they've always done, and you have.

To really just keep evaluating, um, you know, the quality that you're producing, the, um, what's coming out of the vineyard, whether it's quantity or quality. And you always have to just keep reevaluating every year, even just looking at how much rainfall you've had throughout the year, you know, you start having ideas about, okay, you know, um, this has been the driest I've ever seen it.

I'm gonna need to start thinking about, you know, yeasts with. Slightly higher alcohol tolerance, or I'm gonna have to really think about managing fermentations well, because, you know, there's just so many things that that, that as, as I go into every vintage I am thinking through is like, how am I gonna put this all together?

Penny Fitzgerald: So that's where a lot of experience comes in [00:31:00] handy, right? Because you've seen some of those things before, like a dry year, a hot year, a wet year. 

Emily Hodson: Certainly, I mean, I used to fuss, fuss, fuss in my early days, um, when every year would be just, there would always be a monkey wrench somewhere. Always be, I'd be like, I thought I had just figured this out, but now it's my favorite part.

Now, um, paying attention to those details and highlighting the high points and being able to manage the low points, that's the part I love the most. And so that year to year variation actually allows me to be even, even more creative. 'cause you're constantly kind of thinking through, okay, that's what I would've done if it was hot and dry, but I don't have hot and dry.

So what do I do when it's.

So that's the best part. And I think that's what makes Virginia, I think that's why everybody's so excited about Virginia. I think not only, um, do we have these, you know, [00:32:00] beautiful vintage variations, but you've also got a group of winemakers that adore that and want to lean into all our vintage variations and all the stories.

You know, what happened in 2017 and what happened in 2020 and what does that look like and how does that express in this wine? And I think that's the fun, um, in this industry right now. 

Penny Fitzgerald: How does, um, how does soil stamp or figure into all of that too? 'cause you've got a lot of different soils around you too, in your area.

We absolutely do. 

Emily Hodson: You know, even on this farm, um, which is, you know. 150 acres, the soil from the front entrance to the top meadow is completely different. Um, I think ultimately, um, some of the best vineyards in Virginia, we've done a really good job of finding soils that drain well, whether they're on. A slope so the water just [00:33:00] falls off.

Um, or whether they're just a more porous soil, so they're, the grapes don't have wet feet. Um, I think that is how the soil is expressed more than anything is that ability to, um, process the copious amounts of water that we do have. Um, I am very thankful for all the rainfall and humidity we have. It makes it slightly harder to farm, but, um, we're never.

You know, water shortage is scary, you know, and so I always, I'm always thankful for the rain, even when it's making my job challenging. Um, but yes, I mean, certainly, um, my Cab Franc, that's up on the top. And, you know, granite based schist in a very sandy loam is very, very, very different than the cab bronk I have down in the lower elevations.

And elevation is a part of that too. But, but really the lower elevations have a, a more clay in the edny town loam, you [00:34:00] know, um, and they express so differently. And, you know, in a hot, dry year, you know, the. In the hottest, driest years, the, the vines that are up on the top with very little water reserves are actually stressed, so they, in the hottest, driest years, they might not actually express as well as kind of lower, where the soils are holding just a little bit more water capacity.

So. There's so many different things, but that's why it kind of moves around a little bit, depending on the vintage and just having, having your grapes in different aspects and different soil types just, um, is just different colors on your palette. 

Audio Only - All Participants: Hmm. 

Emily Hodson: You're making me very thirsty. 

Audio Only - All Participants: Okay.

Emily Hodson: And I was talking about Cab Franc too, so Of 

Audio Only - All Participants: course. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, for sure. Gosh. Okay. So, um, I'm, I've got a range of people that I'm sure will [00:35:00] have, you know, some questions we can get really nerdy about it, and I love that. And then some questions might be like, well, what, how does a hot year affect a grape? Because you know, it really like the higher the sugar content, the higher the alcohol in the finished product.

But how do you. How do you gauge for all that? Or how would you describe how, you know, the heat and the, how all of that affects, um, what you're, what you're doing. Yeah, so the 

Emily Hodson: interesting this is. This is very, a very good question. Thank you so much. Um, in the hottest years, that's why I said hottest not hot.

In the hottest years, the vines will get stressed and, um, they'll get stressed and they'll clo I'm, I'm gonna be nerdy now. That's good. I love it. So the, the leaves, the, and the leaves will close and they'll stop. Respirating just to protect the vine 'cause they're too hot. And [00:36:00] when they do that, they stop ripening the fruit.

Mm-hmm. Now that doesn't mean they stop it entirely, but on those hottest days, they will try and keep the vine alive and they stop focusing on ripening the fruit. So that's why in the hottest years, even though we do love hot and dry. The hottest years, you might have irregular ripening. Um, so you don't have quite as much uniformity, um, certainly in vineyard blocks.

So the hottest years, it can be problematic. I do love, you know, hot and dry. That is my preference. Um, but if it gets so hot that the vines are closing their st and trying to survive instead of ripening fruit, then things get a little weird. Um, not all grapes respond the same to not, for example, if it's hot, it's shutting down, it's not ripening.

It's like, peace, you guys, I'm gonna survive right now. Um, whereas like Merlot actually really does [00:37:00] like the heat. They seem the merlott leaves or the, the vine seems to be much more resilient to, to high heat. Um, and so. Extreme heat can cause vines to stop ripening. You're right. When we're hot and dry, then we are seeing sugars rise more.

And, um, as a winemaker, I do love that. Um, I do love the fact that a, it's gonna ripen a little bit faster. I'm gonna get a little higher sugar, um, you know. And then just a little higher alcohol, which brings more weight and more body to the wine. It also means, I'm probably gonna pick a little earlier, I love to get fruit off as soon as possible.

So that's a positive as well. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Before the deer come 

Emily Hodson: and all that? Yeah. Before the deer come, I'll say in, gosh, what year was it? It was a year. That was. So hot. Not, not so hot. It was hot and dry. It was like normal, hot, [00:38:00] drier than usual, and very little hurricanes. And so I hung fruit out as long as I could.

'cause I was like, woo, look at this. I can get this 25 brix and, and I'm processing the fruit. And long story short, at the end of the day I was really disappointed in my wine quality. 'cause I felt like I had taken it. Too far. Oh, so I went, the 

Penny Fitzgerald: balance was off, or? 

Emily Hodson: Yeah, the balance was off. So I, I was much more extracted and, um, heavy and, uh, I lost the freshness of the wine.

I'm trying to remember what vintage it was. It might've been um, 20, it might've been 2010. Um, but that was a, a teaching moment for me. 'cause I was like, yeah, I got higher sugar, but I lost it. Beautiful fruit expression. It's all Dr. It's more like dried fruit aromas instead of bing cherry, 

Audio Only - All Participants: you know? Mm-hmm.

It was 

Emily Hodson: dried cherry instead of a bing cherry. So [00:39:00] what I learned from that is like, it's not all or nothing like, so now I'm very comfortable if I, if I wanna bring in some Cab Franc a little early, I understand that I'm bringing it in for the life and the. Brightness of the wine. 

Audio Only - All Participants: Mm. 

Emily Hodson: But I'm also willing to leave some out to, you know, let it ripen into the full, to its fullest extent.

But I also understand there is a, there is a too far on that, even if it's perfectly warm and perfectly dry, you know, I don't want it into the, I like the young, fresh, vibrant wines to start. Mm-hmm. I can't even remember what your question was. Soil. Oh yes, it was a question. It was, yep. So yeah, it can be too hot.

Vines shut down. That doesn't do us any favors. Um, but as long as we have enough water and we're not spiking too much, the vines do a pretty good job. And, um, my job is to watch the sugar in the acid. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Back to [00:40:00] that scientific thing 

Emily Hodson: and the tannins in reds, you really are looking at the seeds, whether the seeds are green or brown, because that can really affect, um, the tannin quality of the wine, whether you have green tannins or.

Brown, nutty tannins, and it's a spectrum. And as I, I think what I was trying to allude to is like, yeah, you can pick two green, but you can also pick two ripe, you know? Yeah. There, there's both ends of that ripening in a harvest. 

Penny Fitzgerald: So much experience, um, in all of that. Wow. And you've been, you've been doing this for 25 years?

Emily Hodson: My 25th vintage this year. Wow. Super excited. Yeah. And we've had a, a sequence of very good years, knock on wood. Yeah. 21, 22, 23, 24 have all been, um, pretty solid vintages for us. So fingers crossed on [00:41:00] 25. Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Have you got a good, um, celebration planned? 

Emily Hodson: We actually celebrated the, the Winery's 25th last year.

Okay. So it, but it's my 25th vintage. Okay. Oh, no, no, I don't. And you know what's also really interesting? It's, it'll be my 50th. Birthday this vintage too, so, oh no, actually no. I turned 50 in 26. I'm a January baby, so we might have to put out that all into one big thing. Oh yeah, he did my 25th vintage and I'm 50 years old.

Penny Fitzgerald: I think that's a plan. Not sure what to do, but yeah, I might just not do anything. Yeah. Maybe a, I 

Emily Hodson: don't know, 

Penny Fitzgerald: trip to France or something. 

Emily Hodson: Cab Franc will go to the Loire. Sauvignon Blanc. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Exactly. 

Emily Hodson: Perfect. 

Penny Fitzgerald: That is on my list. Oh, fun. Um, okay. So what have I not asked [00:42:00] you that you would love to share with 

Emily Hodson: us? We've covered my family, great breeding terroir, soil, great physiology.

My favorite grapes, I think. I can't think of anything really that you've missed that isn't, um, the 

Penny Fitzgerald: world of events maybe. Do you have have some events coming up that you like to tell people about? 

Emily Hodson: Yeah, we have a lot of really, so we've been doing Starry Nights for years and years. Um, that's every second Saturday in the summer.

Um. July, August, September. I, I believe it's all on the website. Okay. Um, we also have, and, and probably one of my favorite things that we do is, uh, a series called Supper series. It's here at the winery. And, um, last year we were, um. We were bringing in chefs and [00:43:00] partnering with chefs, and the chef would be a guest chef and, um, would pair with the wines.

This year we've shifted just a little bit and we're partnering with producers. So we had Smoke and Chimneys, which is a trout farm last month. Um, this month we have polyface. So a lot of like really. Passionate producers, just like I'm so passionate about growing grapes. They're so passionate about raising trout.

Um, and then of course we have their product as part of the dinner paired with Veritas Wines, and that's super fun. And that's all on the website. So that's, I think every month through the fall. Uh, so if anybody, and it's just, you know, really good. Local producers that are the top of their class. So it's really exciting to have them here and they, you know, they speak about what they're doing and you can see all the love and passion, um, in what they're doing also.

So it's, it's nice to kind of collaborate that way as well. Nice. 

Penny Fitzgerald: And to taste it, you [00:44:00] can taste the difference, you know, with when someone's cooking from love and someone's made their wine with love, you know, you really, it sounds stupid, but you really can, you can taste the difference. 

Emily Hodson: And Chef Andy Shipman, who's our chef here, I mean, he's had a big hand in who the producers are and there's some of his favorites too.

Mm. So when he's cooking with their ingredients and or their, what they're producing, you can tell that he adores them as well. So it's a good series. 

Penny Fitzgerald: It's very cool. Yeah, a lot of our, um, wine campers will be coming in a little early and some are staying late, so, uh, we'll have to check the website and I'll What this wine camp, I'm sorry, what'd you ask?

What month is wine camp? It's in July. It'll, it'll be the 24th through the 26th, our official events, and then people are coming in early and staying a little late to check some other things out. That'd be so fun. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so looking forward to it. And your, um, your website, is it just [00:45:00] veritas.com? 

Emily Hodson: My, our website is www.veritaswines.com with an S.

Penny Fitzgerald: Okay, wonderful. I'll put that in the show notes and in my social media and everything so people can find you more easily. 

Audio Only - All Participants: Perfect. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Um, okay, so tell me, we're at, kind of coming to the end of our chat, but what, um. They're like children. It's hard to name your favorite. I'm sure. 

Emily Hodson: I knew you were, I knew this was the question.

Penny Fitzgerald: I know. 

Emily Hodson: Keep going. Ask me. Okay. So what's your favorite wine? Um, I have two. Um, and just in fairness to all my other grapes mm-hmm. Um, Sauvignon Blanc is my favorite. Um. But I think a lot of that is just timing. So Ya Blanc is one of the first scrapes that comes into the cellar. So it's the first fermentation, it's the first [00:46:00] harvest, it's the, you know, everything is clean and ready to go.

Right. I'm full of energy. I'm ready for the, and so it just imprints on me every year. So, um, Sauvignon Blanc, um, and then my other favorite, um, has been Petit Verdot for many, many, many years. And for me that was because it was capstoning, the vintage, it was also the last to come in. And so, 

Audio Only - All Participants: ah. 

Emily Hodson: Everything was being put to bed.

And this is like, oh, it's my last fermentation. And I don't know, I feel like I just have more bandwidth, more time to, to put into those wines. Um, I would have to say though that I have shifted in the last three years and I. Sorry, Petit Verdot, I love making Cab Franc. I just, it like, just everything about it. The fermentation smells like picking it, working with [00:47:00] it, you know, just how it destems, how it crushes and it's just my favorite to process in the cellar and it, it expresses so differently where it is on the farm.

I love that about it as well. Um, and so, yep, those are my two. I love it. Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Okay. So that brought up another question too. So from start to finish of your fermentation year, like your, that project of all the grapes coming in mm-hmm. When do you start, when do you, when are you approximately done? 

Emily Hodson: I. So we are usually coming in early to mid August.

Audio Only - All Participants: Okay. 

Emily Hodson: Um, and that's sparkling Chardonnay. Um, and then we're usually finishing early to mid-October Okay. With picking the grapes. Um, and then it's usually about three more weeks after that that everything is. Done in, in barrel or tank and put away. So usually by November, [00:48:00] um, so Thanksgiving, you know, things are definitely all tucked away.

And then nice roll into the holidays. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Happy holidays. Yep. Wonderful. Oh gosh. Okay, so then, um, the other fun question I'd like to ask is, what's a favorite memory? Sharing wine with friends. Um, 

Emily Hodson: I have, it's really interesting 'cause it kind of links to your earlier question. I can remember like vividly, um, sitting when we were living in Florida, this was pre winery.

I. Um, we're living in Florida. My dad opened a bottle of Cloudy Bay Sauvignon Blanc 

Audio Only - All Participants: and we're just sitting 

Emily Hodson: outside and he poured me this Cloudy Bay, and we just remember it as like the first time that he and I, you know, I, my parents are European, so I grew up with wine in the household, but I think it was like the first time that he and I just geeked out.

Over wine together. Do you know what I mean? We were both, yeah, I do. Oh my gosh. Do you get [00:49:00] gooseberries? Like, um, and it's not that Sauvignon Blanc was new to us. It might've just been the day. I don't, I don't remember why we were sitting outside having a glass of wine, just my dad and I. Um, but that's why we planted it here.

Um, we were advised not to plant Souvignon Blanc. Um, 'cause it's, it's not a, the cluster is too tight. Uh, it's not a perfect grape for Virginia's climate, but. When we got here, I was like, dad, we have to plant Souvignon Blanc. Like if it doesn't work, we'll pull it out. And, um, so we put it up, up top, top where the wind is so that it stays as dry as possible.

And, and, um, I feel like we bit, it's, it's been very happy up there, but that's, that's why, that's why we have Souvignon Blanc in our portfolio. Is that wine member. Mm-hmm. Just the two of us. And that was before my parents were, we weren't talking about having a winery, you know, that was pre mm-hmm. Pre veritas.

Penny Fitzgerald: Wine. A fantastic memory too that you share with your 

Emily Hodson: dad. [00:50:00] Like it's not a super fancy wine or anything like Woo. It's just, I just remember it like it was yesterday and it, it's always been a part of when I'm making Sauvignon Blanc, I always remember that and our, that our time and why we're growing Sauvignon Blanc was just all the way back to that day by the pool.

Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Love it. 

Audio Only - All Participants: Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Okay, so I have to ask you, where in Florida. Jacksonville, Florida, Jacksonville. Okay. Um, my husband and I have a home in Sarasota as well. I love Sarasota. Sarasota. Nice. 

Emily Hodson: Yeah. Um, yeah, I lived most of my life in Florida. I was there until 96, I think. Yeah. Like that's, that's where we grew up.

That's where my family grew up and then we moved here. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Well, so your dad, um, your parents having the notion to buy this vineyard. What do you, what spurred that? I mean, how did that come about? 

Emily Hodson: Yeah, so definitely [00:51:00] as I said, um, my mom and dad are from England, so sort of wine and wine culture is life. Uh, maybe on the side of Francophiles.

Um, and so we just always loved wine. We were always a, a wine collecting family. Um, and my mom has a very green thumb and so they, they, they had always had I ideations of it, but really, um, my dad came to Charlottesville. Um, to do a continuing medical education seminar. 

Audio Only - All Participants: Hmm. Um, 

Emily Hodson: he is still a neurologist.

He's not practicing, but he was a neurologist in Florida and my mom was with him and they just fell in love with the region, the area. And they met Tony Champ and Tony Champ, um, owned Whitehall Vineyards and so, oh yeah, they were tasting these wines and they were like, these are good. Like, what? And that was it.

I, I think it was on that same trip they visited this [00:52:00] property 'cause it was listed with Wintergreen per Wintergreen Properties as a possible vineyard, um, site and say, looked at it and that's all she wrote. And I Wow. Called like, the next week, can I, and I come home to Florida and they're like, what?

How's Virginia? Why don't you come here instead? This is weird, but it was wonderful. I'm so, it's just been such a, a, a wonderful development for our family. Um, uh, I, I didn't say, but, you know, I work with my brother-in-law, Elliot. My uncle Bill is our vineyard manager. My brothers my CEO. My parents are still involved on a daily basis, and so it's, you know, a.

Not only the Veritas family, but it is a lot of Hodson family, Hodson Watson family all, um, just showing up every day and trying to do the best 

Penny Fitzgerald: we can. Yeah, that's amazing. Well, and I'm [00:53:00] sure that's, you know, it brings you closer together. It's a wonderful experience, but I'm sure there are days when it's a little difficult.

Oh yeah. 

Emily Hodson: There are uhhuh There are more good days though than difficult days. Yeah, difficult days I think would exist whether they were my parents or not. Oh, 

Penny Fitzgerald: absolutely. Yeah. And that, you know, that just adds another level of, um, commitment. And just 

Emily Hodson: the hard part. I'd say the hardest, the most annoying part of having a family business is always talking about work.

Like, oh, right. Always. And we don't mean to, it's just that, you know, it's there, it's there, it always sneaks back in. No matter what work. We can be at Disney and all, you know, we're talking about like the 2007 Cab Franc, you know, and all of a sudden we're back into like packaging and or, oh, did you get that email about that event?

Like, that would, I would say, would be the, the beef I would have with the family [00:54:00] business is that, yeah, it's nice just to be family and not talking about. Also what you work on all the time. Yeah, 

Penny Fitzgerald: yeah, yeah. It's good to have boundaries, but it'd be very difficult to figure out what they are. You never mean to bring it up.

It just helps. 

Emily Hodson: Right. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Always 

Emily Hodson: just sneaks right back in. But, but then maybe that keeps us close, because we always, always have something to talk about. It's, 

Penny Fitzgerald: and always something to drink. Oh, yes, that's true. Oh my gosh, 

Emily Hodson: that is very true. 

Penny Fitzgerald: We just run down to the cellar right now. 

Emily Hodson: My dad is my biggest fan, well, my mom and my dad.

So, um, I love to bring them, you know, what I'm working on and ideas that I'm having and problems, you know, things where I'm like, what do you think of this? And he's like, woo. I'm like, I know. It's fun to do all 

Penny Fitzgerald: that together too. Yeah. And then to go through the, the, um. Trials of it and to figure things out together, [00:55:00] and it just makes the victory more, even more sweet.

Emily Hodson: Yeah, it does. Yep. Because we, we. We've had our ups and our downs, you know, certainly it's all vintage driven. It's nothing other than that and learning curve. Mm-hmm. Um, but still to this day, we go back to all those stories and they're so foundational, you know? Yeah. And, um, so important and so fun to kind of revisit.

You remember when we used to? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Is the next generation excited and getting into it too? They're still young. So our oldest grandchild is 19. Okay. And our youngest is, um, five. She either turned four. Oh, wow. Quite a range. My sister and I are 12 years apart, so we have a good range.

Okay. Um, but we're like 19, 18, 17, 16. Ah, seven and five. No. Right [00:56:00] now, my two girls not interested at all. But yeah, I think they've seen me kind of obsessed in this job for so long. They're like, well, I'm not working as hard as mom is, but not at this stage. You know, there's still, they still, um, there's still hope.

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. There's long time to go yet. 

Emily Hodson: Yeah. There really is. Um, they haven't, I mean, I have one in college, one in high school, and they really haven't, um. Formulated their brain fully. I don't think. Yeah, no, exactly. Kidding. Yeah. But no, not right now. Nope. Uh, it's just my brother and I and Elliot and Chloe, and we'll just have to let the kids get through school and see where they Yeah, no, 

Audio Only - All Participants: no 

Penny Fitzgerald: pressure.

Yeah, no pressure. No, no. But you know, at some point they'll, they'll realize, oh my gosh, this is so cool. This is such a great. Family business and a great opportunity. 

Emily Hodson: Really think they will. It's just why I've [00:57:00] been so chill about not needing them to be interested at all. Yeah. In fact, them to just, yep. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Find it on it.

Go. Exactly. Go experience some life and then, yeah. 

Emily Hodson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Penny Fitzgerald: I'm always here, but yeah. Go experience what you need to do. 

Emily Hodson: Exactly right. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh gosh. Oh, this has been so fun. Emily, I appreciate you so much. 

Emily Hodson: Same, same. I really appreciate you taking the time to do everything that you do of just en, you know, bringing people together, informing people, helping people ask geeky questions and not questions, 

Penny Fitzgerald: and just enjoy and love the wine in the process.

That's great. Yeah. Amazing. Well, I cannot wait to see you in July and come taste the wines. 

Emily Hodson: 

Penny Fitzgerald: Um, ' cause you know, we wanna get everybody excited to taste that Cab Franc. Oh yeah, exactly. Very cool. All right. Thank you so much, Emily. I'll be talking with you soon. [00:58:00] Okay. Bye. Mm-hmm. Bye.